Exercise Indradhanush (Rainbow) '07 @ RAF Waddington, UK

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Postby JCage » 04 Jul 2007 00:16

K Mehta wrote:Looks like IAF is taking with it Lots of Bisleris. Not trusting the drinking water availble there huh? :P
Even real fruit juice is there in the supplies. :lol:


I think this is for the Midas crew and MKI crew while "on their way" for inflight use. Once they arrive, its local stuff aplenty..

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Postby Anurag » 04 Jul 2007 00:51

Where are the Su-30 flypast videos at Waddington. Today would mark the end of the 2nd day of the exercises, no news anywhere on what's going on!!

Paging, paging, paging....please send a note if the news is not to share.
Last edited by Anurag on 04 Jul 2007 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby JaiS » 04 Jul 2007 07:50

Longest video from the Airshow yet - 19 minutes of footage.

Video Credits : pheonix 47

WADDINGTON 2007 Video

Anurag, the above has some footage of the Su-30 MKI as well ! ( beginning at nearly the 7:58 mark ) Not very exciting, but still.

Cheers ! :D

-------------------------------------

Quoting TEEJ here. His commentary was for 2nd July, 2007.


The Indian detachment were active today completing local familiarisation flights. Four Su-30s were flown today with each being chaperoned by a Tornado F.3. After the staggered-pair Su-30/Tornado take-offs the IL-78 tanker was airborne for a short familiarisation flight.


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Postby shiv » 04 Jul 2007 08:01

K Mehta wrote:Looks like IAF is taking with it Lots of Bisleris. Not trusting the drinking water availble there huh? :P
Even real fruit juice is there in the supplies. :lol:


Up until the 1980s no restaurant in the UK used to serve water with meals unless specifically requested. The only exceptions were Indian restaurants. Also I cannot recall (from those days) a single workplace in the UK that had water fountains or a place dedicated to the supply of drinking water.

But of late the Brits seem to have learned that water could possibly be a useful and essential component of a meal. Besides a few instances of vein thrombosis and resulting litigation have made even the stuffy British Airways staff make sure that you get lots of drinking water on long flights.

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Postby gauravjkale » 04 Jul 2007 09:58

video Rusults

Typhoon : Booooring
Su-30 : could have been much better
Chinook: Awesome ( never seen a chinook doing anything like that)

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Postby Kapil » 04 Jul 2007 19:49

Whee......
8)

'EX-INDRADHANUSH 2007' GETS UNDERWAY AT UK



Waddington (UK): July 4, 2007



The second bilateral Indo-UK air exercise - 'Indradhanush-2007', involving the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Royal Air Force (RAF), got underway here at the Royal Air Force (RAF) base, Waddington, on Monday.



The inaugural day, primarily for familiarization of the participating IAF Su-30 MKI aircrew with the flying environment in UK, saw them flying alongside RAF F3 Tornadoes of the XXV Squadron that are based at RAF Leeming, but are operating from Waddington alongside IAF Su-30 MKIs for the duration of the exercise. Also airborne were a Eurofighter Typhoon and a Hawk aircraft.



"It will be a mutual learning experience for both", said Wing Commander AK Bharti, talking of the learning values in terms of inter-operability between the two air forces after returning from a sortie, of a four-aircraft formation comprising a Su-30 MKI, F3 Tornado, Typhoon and a Hawk.



The 'airborne warning and control' (AWAC) system experience, a veritable electronic 'eye-in-the-sky' platform was also observed by few IAF personnel onboard an E3-D Sentry AWAC aircraft belonging to RAF's No. 8 Fighter Squadron, based here in Waddington. The E3-D Sentry and the F3 Tornadoes also participated in the first series of Exercise Indradhanush-2006, held at Gwalior in India, last year.



The exercise between two simulated air elements, the "Red Air" (aggressors) and the "Blue Air" (defenders) forces will have the training element for the latter. Missions comprising multiple aircraft will form some of the intrinsic training missions, some of them highly advanced and complex missions. Mediating between the two will be the "White" force, who remain neutral and whose decisions will be the last word, to mitigate differences, if any. They comprise 'observers' from both sides, and include members from the IAF's 'Tactics and Combat Development Establishment' (TACDE) and the RAF's 'Air Warfare Centre' (AWC), the premiere institutions of the two air forces, constituting the 'best-amongst-the-best' aircrew and personnel on both sides.

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Postby Kapil » 04 Jul 2007 20:22

Here you are chaps 8)

Image

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Postby PaulJI » 04 Jul 2007 21:43

shiv wrote:
K Mehta wrote: ...
Up until the 1980s .... Also I cannot recall (from those days) a single workplace in the UK that had water fountains or a place dedicated to the supply of drinking water.
....


I can, & I've lived in the UK all my life (well, apart from a few months at a time working abroad). Every place I've ever worked in here has had a drinking water supply, but it isn't always labelled as such, because over here a cold water tap is drinking water unless labelled otherwise. We're lucky enough to have a public water supply that almost everywhere has lower bacteria counts than most bottled water. You really can drink the water. You don't need a special supply. :P

I keep telling my partner (who was born & raised elsewhere) that she's wasting money by buying bottled water. I've even looked up the analyses of our local water supply, & given them to her (cleaner than the bottled water she buys). Silly woman still buys it.

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Postby gauravjkale » 05 Jul 2007 19:05

i thought this will be the most follwed exercise with lots of images and news. but since the exercise begun there its been very disappointing.

where are the speculations, results,news, gossips, anything will do.....

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Postby Samir » 05 Jul 2007 19:54

So far the Typhoons and Su-30s have been pretty much at a standoff in 1-v-1s (AWACS used as well). They have different strengths (enabling their respective pilots to either create an offensive situation to their advantage or exit from a defensive one with ease). Tons more to go - the routines will get more complicated and elaborate in the days to come. (High praise for the Typhoon - it was described as being "like a Hunter" - can't get much better than that!).

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Postby NRao » 05 Jul 2007 20:12

Kapil wrote:Here you are chaps 8)

Image


Forget M/MRCAs. Just get more MKIs.

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Postby pradeepe » 05 Jul 2007 21:32

Samir wrote:So far the Typhoons and Su-30s have been pretty much at a standoff in 1-v-1s (AWACS used as well). They have different strengths (enabling their respective pilots to either create an offensive situation to their advantage or exit from a defensive one with ease). Tons more to go - the routines will get more complicated and elaborate in the days to come. (High praise for the Typhoon - it was described as being "like a Hunter" - can't get much better than that!).


How can that be :). The last video I saw had the Su do a couple of fancy moves, the Typhoon guy lights a marlboro, launches one from bvr range and the Su rolls over and dies.

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Postby Lalmohan » 05 Jul 2007 21:57

typhoon is the first serious opponent the sukhois have had so far. F15C's and F16C/D's aren't really all that difficult, nor are the M2K's in France which are similar

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Postby JCage » 05 Jul 2007 22:09

Samir wrote:So far the Typhoons and Su-30s have been pretty much at a standoff in 1-v-1s (AWACS used as well). They have different strengths (enabling their respective pilots to either create an offensive situation to their advantage or exit from a defensive one with ease). Tons more to go - the routines will get more complicated and elaborate in the days to come. (High praise for the Typhoon - it was described as being "like a Hunter" - can't get much better than that!).


Hunter, as in the Hunter used by the IAF? So Hunter pilots still remember it fondly. :)

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Postby Kartik » 05 Jul 2007 22:14

I thought that Samir was referring to the Typhoon operating as a hunter meaning taking long range BVR AMRAAM simulated shots and monitoring the situation while being low observable.

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Postby SamP » 05 Jul 2007 22:20

JCage wrote:
Samir wrote:So far the Typhoons and Su-30s have been pretty much at a standoff in 1-v-1s (AWACS used as well). They have different strengths (enabling their respective pilots to either create an offensive situation to their advantage or exit from a defensive one with ease). Tons more to go - the routines will get more complicated and elaborate in the days to come. (High praise for the Typhoon - it was described as being "like a Hunter" - can't get much better than that!).


Hunter, as in the Hunter used by the IAF? So Hunter pilots still remember it fondly. :)


Hmmm...does this mean the the Typhoon now is the frontrunner for the MRCA deal? :P

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Postby Singha » 05 Jul 2007 22:26

I used to drink tap water in US but could still see rugged survivalist types buying jerricans of bottled water and head off in muddy pickups somewhere. I found their wives and kids to be a bit scarier than the real big guy - had a somewhat cunning and feral look about them...big guy was ok so long as the ATF, local cops and IRS werent bothering him.

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Postby JCage » 05 Jul 2007 22:31

Kartik wrote:I thought that Samir was referring to the Typhoon operating as a hunter meaning taking long range BVR AMRAAM simulated shots and monitoring the situation while being low observable.


Samir is a hunter afficianado and so am I, so thats where my thoughts went. :)

As regards low observability- the Typhoon is 3 Mtr square at the minimum. Thats good enough.

And BVR missile ranges on both sides will be moreorless equivalent notional ranges...its the usual practise..

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Postby Austin » 05 Jul 2007 23:24

This Typhoon vs Su-30MKI match was a long awaited one , Both aircraft are good and have their respective strength and weakness , The both would be trying their skill and experience against each other.

The MKI encounter would give the Typhoon fellas how the MKI behaves beyond JOUST and the feel of real things and how best to counter it when in the future there would be many unfriendly countries with Su.

The Typhoon encounter would give the MKI fellas a real worthy competitor and first experience with a pure breed 4.5 G fighter as well as experience/ face some good tactics by RAF fellas and counter it.

Over all it would be fun for both the sides and both sides would learn a lot from each oher.

I dont expect them to declare who would be the winner or something like that which happened in case of US exercise .

But I would like to bet my money on Typhoon both for BVR and WVR engagements majority wins and Su for Strikes :twisted:

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Postby JCage » 05 Jul 2007 23:41

But I would like to bet my money on Typhoon both for BVR and WVR engagements majority wins and Su for Strikes


Thats because the IAF has not released details on what the MKI is capable of. The day they do, you will sing a different tune. :P

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Postby Anurag » 06 Jul 2007 00:37

I would be surprised if much would be released on the outcome of who 'wins'. The number one point being it's a BIG EGO issue for both sides when using their top of the line combat aircrafts.

But leave it to the jingo gosip and pray/hope you hear something that leaks out :lol:

Btw, Austin if I were you, I would seriously evaluate your bets. Next thing you find out and you're filing for bankruptcy! :wink:

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Postby JaiS » 06 Jul 2007 00:59

Some spotter reports :

"T van der Laaken"
thijsvanderlaaken(@)gmail(.)com
Tue Jul 3, 2007


This is wat i have

K2663 IL-76MD India arr 28-6 dep 30-6
K2878 IL-76MD India arr 27-6 dep 29-6
RK3451 IL-78MKI India arr 28-6 dep 2-7
RK3452 IL-78MKI India arr 28-6

So only the last one, is still at Waddington. The other ones would be returning just before the return flight to India.

Cu Thijs




Posted by: "Glenn Herriott"
glenn.herriott(@)virgin(.)net
Tue Jul 3, 2007


Only IL78 RK-3452 is currently at Waddington, the others having departed to Greece at the weekend.

I`m given to understand that an IL78 and two IL76s are are due on 16th July in connection with the departure of the Indian deployment on the 17th.

HTH

Regards
Glenn




Posted by: "Kevin Strickson"
k.strickson(@)ntlworld(.)com
Tue Jul 3, 2007


There is only 1 X IL78 at Waddo.
It is down on the bottom dispersal and is easy to see

BUT *****This may change***** on the 16th July there are 1 X IL78 & 2
X IL-76 due back at Waddington to take the Sukhoi`s Back

That makes it a Sunday ( my note : it is a Monday) , but that's what the transport crew said.

Long haired Kev ( Waddo Local)


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Postby Rishirishi » 06 Jul 2007 04:19

Under NO circumstances is it acceptable for the Europeans to get beaten or matched by the MKI. It would be a huge huge dissapointment.

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Postby Ananth » 06 Jul 2007 04:45

Rishirishi wrote:Under NO circumstances is it acceptable for the Europeans to get beaten or matched by the MKI. It would be a huge huge dissapointment.


Why does it always have to be ego-based modeling of the situation? Look at it this way, when would you be happy to see Indians crushed and shown their shortcomings. During peace-time exercises or during real war? I would be most happy if all the money spent turns up some valuable lessons for IAF.

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Postby Cain Marko » 06 Jul 2007 07:00

Austin wrote:This Typhoon vs Su-30MKI match was a long awaited one , Both aircraft are good and have their respective strength and weakness , The both would be trying their skill and experience against each other.

The MKI encounter would give the Typhoon fellas how the MKI behaves beyond JOUST and the feel of real things and how best to counter it when in the future there would be many unfriendly countries with Su.

The Typhoon encounter would give the MKI fellas a real worthy competitor and first experience with a pure breed 4.5 G fighter as well as experience/ face some good tactics by RAF fellas and counter it.

Over all it would be fun for both the sides and both sides would learn a lot from each oher.

I dont expect them to declare who would be the winner or something like that which happened in case of US exercise .

But I would like to bet my money on Typhoon both for BVR and WVR engagements majority wins and Su for Strikes :twisted:


Austinsahib,
you might quite easily lose your $$$$ both BVR and WVR. The Ef2000 is all fine and dandy but under the most ideal circumstances its slotted array detects no better than 165-180km for a large RCS target (F4), which means it will lockin @ ~ 120km on a bird of such size. With luck it will get the MKI around the 120km mark, at which point it can't fire jack (cause even the amraam c5 needs to be a lot closer to score). The MKI with the Bars Mk1, OTOH, detects a 3sqm target @ no less than 180-200km, IOW a decently loaded EF2000 may be caught @ around 175km and locked in @ about 120km. The great difference is that the MKI has R27s that can actually be fired @ around 100km+ and even though they are SARH they will still give the MKI first shot - the EF2000 is already on the defensive.

As far as WVR is concerned you are expecting the EF2000 to overcome a TVC equipped HMS+R73 combo exploited by 2 very sharp set of IAF eyes. A tall order under most circumstances.
JMT

regards,
CM

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Postby Austin » 06 Jul 2007 10:31

JCage wrote:Thats because the IAF has not released details on what the MKI is
capable of. The day they do, you will sing a different tune. :P


So you think that RAF has released all the details on Typhoon for all to see

Austinsahib,
you might quite easily lose your $$$$ both BVR and WVR. The Ef2000 is all fine and dandy but under the most ideal circumstances its slotted array detects no better than 165-180km for a large RCS target (F4), which means it will lockin @ ~ 120km on a bird of such size. With luck it will get the MKI around the 120km mark, at which point it can't fire jack (cause even the amraam c5 needs to be a lot closer to score). The MKI with the Bars Mk1, OTOH, detects a 3sqm target @ no less than 180-200km, IOW a decently loaded EF2000 may be caught @ around 175km and locked in @ about 120km. The great difference is that the MKI has R27s that can actually be fired @ around 100km+ and even though they are SARH they will still give the MKI first shot - the EF2000 is already on the defensive.


All this scenerio is good to beat some one on board with assumptions and presumptions , But in real world such assumptions and presumptions dont work , You simply assumed that Slotted array will not detect beyond this range and how MKI will get the first shot .

Since I belive you are so well versed with Typhoon capablity and have been briefed in and out by both RAF and IAF on Su-30 MKI that now you can speak with authority on the subject , Pardon me but beyond Brochure we dont know the real thing and no one will ever tell us the real thing.

As far as WVR is concerned you are expecting the EF2000 to overcome a TVC equipped HMS+R73 combo exploited by 2 very sharp set of IAF eyes.


YES

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Postby gauravjkale » 06 Jul 2007 10:39

chill Austin

i think both sides will prefer loosing in an exercise than revealing the true capabilites of their beasts.

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Postby vinayak_d » 06 Jul 2007 10:49

Everyone has a right to his own opinion. Ef wouldn't last 5 secs infront of MKI is mine.... :lol: :lol:

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Postby krishnan » 06 Jul 2007 10:50

Its not about loosing or winning , its about learning to work together

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Postby sum » 06 Jul 2007 10:56

All this EF v/s MKI talk makes this forum resemble one that exists in a pure place on our western flank!!!! :P

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Postby Logan » 06 Jul 2007 10:59

JCage wrote:
But I would like to bet my money on Typhoon both for BVR and WVR engagements majority wins and Su for Strikes


Thats because the IAF has not released details on what the MKI is capable of. The day they do, you will sing a different tune. :P

And presumably you do know about the unreleased details of the MKI?

The great difference is that the MKI has R27s that can actually be fired @ around 100km+ and even though they are SARH they will still give the MKI first shot - the EF2000 is already on the defensive.

No you cannot fire a R27 at those ranges. No pilot in their right mind would fire a missile at that range. Not only will NEZ envelope be out of reach but the missile would pretty much be useless esp. considering the much draggy airframe older R27s have.

Any "serious" BVR engagement only takes place between 18-35km regardless of what missiles you are carrying. It doesn’t do any good to fire them at 80km and then miss.
I would leave the sim kills to the actual pilots and not get into my toy is better than yours arguments.

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Postby gauravjkale » 06 Jul 2007 11:03

i dont get this, if a situation arisis where we have to work together with some other military power then they should know full capacbility of our systems and we should of theirs.

Dont think when US goes out shooting camels in gulf it let its allies know all its capabilities.

Its ok to know the lil bit of operations style and systems but the ture potential, out of question.

my Opinion: MKI rules the sky (Till raptors are down in hangers)

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Postby gauravjkale » 06 Jul 2007 11:04

i dont get this, if a situation arisis where we have to work together with some other military power then they should know full capacbility of our systems and we should of theirs.

Dont think when US goes out shooting camels in gulf it let its allies know all its capabilities.

Its ok to know lil bit of operations style and systems but the true potential, out of question.

my Opinion: MKI rules the sky (Till raptors are down in hangers)

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Postby Lkawamoto » 06 Jul 2007 11:31

can you children stop engaging in MKI vs EF bravado?

this is an "excersize" with a friendly country with whome it pays to interoperate and also from whome lessons could be learned

real (non) performance of indians in real games internationally is very well known in cricket, field hockey, and not to mention soccer

SO please let these airmen do their job and please stop doing desktop bravado while sipping chai and eating chivda and wasting forum bandwidth

please use this forum to post indradhanush pictures and facts and leave personal opinions for nukkad-like forums

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Postby gauravjkale » 06 Jul 2007 11:50

some really cool pics on this site:

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/uk ... act=SF;f=9

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Postby Raymond » 06 Jul 2007 11:54

Cain Marko wrote:The great difference is that the MKI has R27s that can actually be fired @ around 100km+ and even though they are SARH they will still give the MKI first shot - the EF2000 is already on the defensive.
regards,
CM


Nope.
R27T1/ET1
R27R1/ER1

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Postby Rahul Shukla » 06 Jul 2007 12:05

Image

Image

Image

Image


Source: Clicky


Image

Image


Source: Clicky


Image


Image


Source: Clicky

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Postby vina » 06 Jul 2007 12:11

K Mehta wrote:Looks like IAF is taking with it Lots of Bisleris. Not trusting the drinking water availble there huh? :P
Even real fruit juice is there in the supplies. :lol:


Thank goodness the IAF was wise enough to be politically correct and carry/display Bisleris. If they had been carrying Kinley or Aqua Fina god forbid, the commie ding dongs would be frothing in the mouth and picketing the IAF bases in Kalaikunda and commies would be swarming across TN and Karanataka borders to picket airbases there!.

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Postby Rahul Shukla » 06 Jul 2007 12:19

Image

Source: Clicky


Image


Image


Source: Clicky

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Postby Singha » 06 Jul 2007 13:23

The B-707 platform is a lot longer than IL76 hence the Sentry AWACS has
lot more internal room than Phalcon plus readymade pressurized cabin with
cargo hold below for electronic racks...around 20 tons of it.

I really wonder what kind of arrangement will be made in IL76...
there has never been a passenger version of IL76, conventional designs
are more appropriate


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