NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5142
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Dileep » 19 Nov 2008 14:41

Isn't the IFF Incompatibility an obvious thing? The Nato equipment says "Friend! Don't Shoot", while the Su is expecting "Dosth Huun! Maarna Mat!".

Anshul
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 01 Feb 2005 12:53
Location: Potala Palace,Lhasa

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Anshul » 19 Nov 2008 14:46

....and the RWR shrieks "Dost Dost Na Rahaa...!!!".. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

rakall
BRFite
Posts: 798
Joined: 10 May 2005 10:26

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby rakall » 19 Nov 2008 16:17

Vishnu wrote:A quick couple of important points about fratricide incidents ...

None of the fratricides saw Sukhois shooting down Sukhois. Any fratricide incidents committed by the Indian Air Force were because of the following reasons ...

IAF Sukhois are not fitted with IFF Mode 4 which is the NATO standard. Hence they could not interrogate their contacts.
The radar IFF onboard the Sukhois is designed to interrogate Indian Air Force fighters ... NATO standard jets obviously do not carry equipment which enables a Sukhoi 30 using its a Bars radar IFF system to interrogate them.

Thanks



Thanks Vishnu.. that clarifies.. Assumed that fratricide meant Sukhois shot down our own planes.. so it was NATO a/c belonging to the same (blue/red) force....

Anyway regarding IFF etc.. some questions have been noted down for intel gathering at HAL/BEL stalls at AeroIndia09..

rad
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 55
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: madras

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby rad » 19 Nov 2008 16:53

HI Vishnu
You should also take up, point by point and refute the UASF officers claim in you tube , like he says that the MIg-21 s used israeli radar when they were using the kopyo (russain), he agains says that the Mig 21 were in vertical sicssors at 110 knots ! any body in aiviation will know that tha mig 21 cannot sustain flight at slow speeds as 110 knots ansd t hat too in altitiude !! wrong again . That the sukhois used data links, wrong again. He goes on to compare the f-22 with the su-30 !! who on earth claimed that the su-30 was bettter than the f-22, seemed to me comparing sALMAN kHAN WITH WWF Kali !.
It seems that when so called 3rd world countries beat so called developed countries wether it was cricket or air combat they just cant accept the fact and open their mouth and uter some nonsense , i do pity them!

Rad

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1527
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Sid » 19 Nov 2008 17:11

Hi Vishnu,

Although my question is not related to current controversy, but it would be great hear on this.

In red-flag, IAF also flew ground strikes missions. Does that also included SEAD missions where they went against SAM batteries? And what air-to-ground weapons did they simulated (i.e. only used LGB's or they also simulated any standoff weapons too)?

-Sid

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Nov 2008 17:28

ah... the dangers of releasing priviledged information understood by a few professionals into the public domain!
i can see a parallel hoo-ha about say US and Indian approaches to a medical procedure being hotly debated on BRF by those that don't know enough about the topic...

Vishnu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Vishnu » 19 Nov 2008 18:51

Hi ... I am really keen that the truth about Red Flag gets out. I encourage all of you to cross post my piece anywhere you want. For some bizarre reason, I have been banned on keypublishing.com ... I have done nothing on that website at all and no reason has been provided ...

Cheers
Vishnu

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16293
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Rahul M » 19 Nov 2008 18:57

kedar, thanks a lot for the unit names.

vishnu, will do so. thanks again.

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7345
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby krishnan » 19 Nov 2008 19:07

Vishnu wrote:Hi ... I am really keen that the truth about Red Flag gets out. I encourage all of you to cross post my piece anywhere you want. For some bizarre reason, I have been banned on keypublishing.com ... I have done nothing on that website at all and no reason has been provided ...

Cheers
Vishnu



Happened to me as well. Maybe they ban people who dont login for a particular amount of time

Indrajit
BRFite
Posts: 154
Joined: 19 Feb 2004 12:31
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Indrajit » 19 Nov 2008 19:15

Hey,evn I have been banned,that too forever,no reasons cited,what the hell,I'm a regular in that forum!!!!

Vishnu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Vishnu » 20 Nov 2008 06:51

I wonder if they are banning BRF members.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16293
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Rahul M » 20 Nov 2008 06:54

at least one prominent member has been, other than you and others mentioned here 'mean.
anyway I still haven't been banned and I've posted your response in the IAF thread there.
the old red-flag thread there has been locked up.

Vishnu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Vishnu » 20 Nov 2008 14:04

Coming up ... exciting new details on the nature of 1 v 1 engagements at Mountain Home ... gun kills, the use of the AIM 9X-JHMCS ... gun kills etc ... Watch this space.

BhairavP
BRFite
Posts: 1417
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 13:34
Location: The Beepul's Repubric of SoBo

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby BhairavP » 20 Nov 2008 17:09

Rahul M wrote:at least one prominent member has been, other than you and others mentioned here 'mean.
anyway I still haven't been banned and I've posted your response in the IAF thread there.
the old red-flag thread there has been locked up.


Dada, Nick76? What name does he post here under?

rakall
BRFite
Posts: 798
Joined: 10 May 2005 10:26

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby rakall » 20 Nov 2008 17:36

Vishnu wrote:Coming up ... exciting new details on the nature of 1 v 1 engagements at Mountain Home ... gun kills, the use of the AIM 9X-JHMCS ... gun kills etc ... Watch this space.



waiting waiting waiting.....

Hope that will put to rest all the demons & doubts...

rad
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 55
Joined: 05 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: madras

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby rad » 20 Nov 2008 18:34

vishnu
GIVE IT TO THEM :twisted:


rad

Mihir
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 851
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 21:26

Re: IAF at Red Flag / Nellis AFB 2008

Postby Mihir » 20 Nov 2008 18:37

Vishnu wrote:... Indian Air Force Sukhois were not even linked to one another using their Russian built data links since American authorities had asked for specifics of the system before it was cleared to operate in US airspace. The IAF, quite naturally, felt that this would compromise a classified system onboard and decided to go on with the missions without the use of data links between the Sukhois.


George J wrote:The MKI carries HAL INCOM1210A.
INCOM-1210A-Integrated Radio Communication System-ECCM Facility-Communication in AM/FM/Data/ECCM Mode


So which one is it? :-?

Vishnu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Vishnu » 20 Nov 2008 19:35

Hi .. someone called Prasun Sengupta disagreed with me on livefist .. I have countered his points .. which are as follows ...

Hi Prasun ... a few of your points are incorrect ... the others I agree with ...

You wrote:
1) In the absence of AWACS-based airborne battle management support in the within visual range air combat domain, the Su-30MKI or for that matter any other combat aircraft (like the Rafale and Eurofighter EF-2000) equipped with an infra-red search-and-track system (IRST) will undoubtedly prevail and this is most likely what happened at Mountain AFB.

My View on this:
Currently the IRST on any aircraft does not offer any significant benefit in the visual bubble other than in probably the F-35 where the coverage is 360 degrees. Essentially, coverage of IRST is similar to radar albeit in azimuth only. While the IRST has the inherent advantage of a passive sensor, an alternate source is required for ranging (essential for enabling missile launch solutions). The advantage that it mainly offers is of a silent launch of a passive guided missile once the target ac is within the IRST envelope.

Prasun wrote:
2) When operating in the supermanoeuvrable mode the 35-degree rate of turn per second mentioned refers to the instantaneous turn-rate, I presume. However, I've come across different figures being mentioned by RMAF Su-30MKM pilots for both the instantaneous turn rate and sustained turn rate.

My view:
The sustained rates of turn are very high with TVC and vary between 30 to well over 50 degrees per second. Unlike conventional manoeuvring there really is no applicability of the terms instantaneous and sustained rates in manoeuvring with TVC. If you really must apply then in the case of TVC the sustained rates will be higher than the instantaneous rates, quite unlike the conventional manoeuvring. Thrust vectoring becomes more and more effective at lower speeds and as speed is reduced the rate of turns increase (sustained).

Prasun wrote:
3) On the Su-30MKI the data links are of Israeli origin (from TADIRAN SpectraLink) and they will be operationalised only AFTER they are commissioned into service.

My point:
The Su-30MKI has the Russian data link and not Israeli.

Your point:
4) The question of dispensing chaff and flares during Ex Red Flag doesn’t arise at all since all the AAM firings (for both within visual range and beyond visual range intercepts) are simulated and are not live firings.

My point:
In the case of these exercises ... Chaff `inhibited' missile launch to a large extent, while flares were used to counter IR Missiles post launch. Hence, in case somebody launched a missile and someone launched a flare after that, the shot invariably was classified as miss and not granted. In the Red Flag scenario with multi sensor tracking from ground and air, chaff was extremely important and needed to be utilised judiciously. The `use' of flares could be replaced by a voice call.

Prasun wrote:
The equipment used for calibrating, monitoring and recording air combat engagements in real-time is the DACTS/ACMI system, which is also used for sortie debriefing. It is not a classified or restricted system, but it has an open architecture design which allows non-US DACTS/ACMI pods carried by participating aircraft to be data-linked in real-time. It is for this reason that the Su-30MKIs were clearly seen equipped with such underwing pods (supplied by RADA of Israel) when flying over the skies of Nevada.

My perspective:
Its NACTS (Nellis Air Combat Training System) and not DACTS. It’s from M/s Cubic of US and not RADA of Israel. Yes the pods were networked and recorded manoeuvring. However, they did not provide any inputs to the pilot. They transmitted data to each other and to ground stations for real time display of the situation on the ground. The same picture is not available to the pilot for reference in the air. Hence, it’s a good debrief aid as it accurately records the relative position of each participant in real time and aids in shot assessment during the debrief.

Thanks Vishnu

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby shiv » 20 Nov 2008 19:41

Prasun Sengupta is persona non grata on this forum.

A Google search for what he has been accused of throws up this: Clicky

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16293
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Rahul M » 20 Nov 2008 19:43

My point:
The Su-30MKI has the Russian data link and not Israeli.

mind mentioning which ?

as you can see in the post above yours, it has created a bit of confusion. I thought the original russian ones were replaced.
TIA.

Vishnu
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Vishnu » 20 Nov 2008 20:16

Ok let me try and find out. Thanks

jimmbswu
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 6
Joined: 20 Nov 2008 20:12
Location: AL, USA

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby jimmbswu » 20 Nov 2008 20:26

A couple of points:

1.) The IAF decided not to use Russian datalink: Spectrum management is a serious business in the US Military, because they have to comply with the Federal Communication Commission's frequency assignments/regulation CONUS, and because it is too easy for radio systems to interfere with each other, especially with multinational radios radiating. Therefore, the USAF requested some specifications from the IAF on their Russian datalinks, probably the frequency band and the encoding/digitization methods/waveform so they can check for interference. In this case, IAF maybe chose not to share that info because of different classification standards. In the US, the radios/radars usually have an unclassified electromagnetic specification, and sometimes they also have a classified specification for wartime use. Maybe the Russians are not too worried about FCC regulations :)

2.) TVC turning/non-TVC turning rates and altitude drop: When you are turning, you trade speed and altitude for direction change. That's energy conservation, and that's why energy management is a big topic for fighter pilots. TVC helps to change direction faster, but it cannot violate energy conservation. When you're exerting a torque to turn, you will lose some speed and altitude. And when you lose altitude, then someone can "drill your brains out".

ETA: for the datalink: I'm not saying that the USAF was not gathering intelligence. I am saying that there is a legitimate excuse for doing so. And that it could simply be a bureaucratic issue.
Last edited by jimmbswu on 21 Nov 2008 01:26, edited 1 time in total.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16293
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: woh log gawad hai, unpad hai !
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Rahul M » 20 Nov 2008 21:03

2.) TVC turning/non-TVC turning rates and altitude drop: When you are turning, you trade speed and altitude for direction change. That's energy conservation, and that's why energy management is a big topic for fighter pilots. TVC helps to change direction faster, but it cannot violate energy conservation. When you're exerting a torque to turn, you will lose some speed and altitude. And when you lose altitude, then someone can "drill your brains out".

nobody here is arguing against energy conservation, I don't get your point in posting obvious facts. :roll:

an a/c like the mki with that high turn rates while in the merge would trade speed and altitude to achieve that because it gives a higher probability of pointing the aircraft's in the direction of the target.

and that BTW means you can do a "drill your brains out" on the high and mighty fighter flying above you.

And when you lose altitude, then someone can "drill your brains out".

:lol:
and the sr-71 is the 'bestest' fighter of all times because it could fly at 70,000 feet !
all other aircraft were flying at a lower altitude and got their "brains drilled out".

seems like somebody really got their brains drilled "out".

George J
BRFite
Posts: 312
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby George J » 20 Nov 2008 22:27

Children:
FOCUS

FACT 1: Col. Fornof is on video saying x, y and z.

FACT 2: Vishnu Som (who is not an MKI pilot) but a very highly regarded journalist in all things jingo and was actually present at Red Flag and has interacted both with IAF and USAF pilots who flew at Mt. Home and Nellis says that Col. Fornof is incorrect about x, y and z and here is why.

Do I believe him? Yes.

Do you want to believe him?
If you want an IAF No.20 Pilot to say on video that Col. Fornof is wrong about x, y and z. That might never happen. So if that is your criteria belief then many things in the world have actually ended including principle combat ops in Iraq.

Please don't get side tracked minutiae of STR calculations, datalinks. What you want to think about after Vishnu's story is:

Really? The MKI was dominated in 1 v 1 in Mt. Home? That's not what Vishnu heard. So Col. Fornof misspoke.
Really? The MKI can only do 28 deg? That's not what Vishnu said. So Col. Fornof misspoke.
Really? The MKI were running data links between themselves but not others? That's not what Vishnu said. So Col. Fornof misspoke.
Really? Only the IAF committed fratricide? That's not what Vishnu said. So Col. Fornof misspoke.

Off course depending on who you want to believe, you can always argue that Vishnu is not an MKI pilot so obviously Col. Fornof who is a real F-15 pilot (but was not directly connected with Red Flag) has to be right. That's Lahori Logic but no one can change that for you.

Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Jagan » 20 Nov 2008 22:43

GeorgeJingo has put it in a way that I could never have :mrgreen:

If anyone wants to go ahead and believe Col Fornof word to word, they are free to do that. thats their prerogative. We only need to believe that Vishnu has his sources - and thats enough for me!

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3860
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Kartik » 21 Nov 2008 00:04

Rahul M wrote:
My point:
The Su-30MKI has the Russian data link and not Israeli.

mind mentioning which ?

as you can see in the post above yours, it has created a bit of confusion. I thought the original russian ones were replaced.
TIA.


It has a Russian Polyot datalink. more details can be seen here..

link

George J
BRFite
Posts: 312
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby George J » 21 Nov 2008 00:17

No..........please read the Su-30 thread.

No more Data link tangents on this thread.

sam_kamath
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 57
Joined: 23 Sep 2008 22:53

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby sam_kamath » 21 Nov 2008 00:30

jimmbswu wrote:A couple of points:
2.) TVC turning/non-TVC turning rates and altitude drop: When you are turning, you trade speed and altitude for direction change. That's energy conservation, and that's why energy management is a big topic for fighter pilots. TVC helps to change direction faster, but it cannot violate energy conservation. When you're exerting a torque to turn, you will lose some speed and altitude. And when you lose altitude, then someone can "drill your brains out".


Dude have you seen a point guard like Koby Briant take a shot at the basket while still turning in the air. Yes he is going to fall while making the shot (loss of energy) but his turning in air is creating for him a good angle to take the shot at the basket from...The point is to think in two steps yes the energy reserve is going to fall but it is being rapidly substituted by a favorable IR missile lock position. Once the MKI pilot sees the f-15 he fires off his IR missile and come what may the relative energy of the missile is going to much much grater than the F-15. If he is going vertical even more better big flame :-)...

gogna
BRFite
Posts: 118
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 19:02
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby gogna » 21 Nov 2008 00:51

Last edited by Rahul M on 21 Nov 2008 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: editedyoutube link. no need to post the same thing again and again and again.......

andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1586
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby andy B » 21 Nov 2008 04:22

Vishnu mate, awesome coverage and a hearty thank you for putting in so much effort you have warmed every Jingo's heart around the world.

Mods please make it a strict policy for restricting Chor Gupta...to make sure no body talks about him, quotes him or refers to his blog. Chor Gupta is extinct as far as BRF is concerned as it just creates more and more confusion :evil:

On the question of TVC and instantenous turn rates:

1). What kind of G forces would the pilot be able to sustain?
2). Vishnu you said the rates can vary between 30 and 50 degrees, would the pilot training make a difference here for e.g. a more experienced pilot may be more accustomed to the situation and thus may be able to pull higher turn rates?

Apologies if this question sounds silly, gurus (GeorgeJ please be kind :-? )
Last edited by andy B on 21 Nov 2008 05:45, edited 1 time in total.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5036
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Surya » 21 Nov 2008 04:48

youtube video EXCLUSIVE!!!

:rotfl:

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2180
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Cybaru » 21 Nov 2008 05:16

shiv avroor has an exclusive video!!! :D

I think that needs to be moved to another thread so as not to clutter this one up.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby shiv » 21 Nov 2008 05:53

Jagan wrote:GeorgeJingo has put it in a way that I could never have


Yes Yes Yes. But I am unable to read it in those boring fonts and colors he has used.

Amitabh
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Amitabh » 21 Nov 2008 13:09


The sensationalism of this story is ridiculous.

Abhi Som
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 19:22

Red Flag’ official apologises to IAF

Postby Abhi Som » 21 Nov 2008 19:53

It seems there has been an apology
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... IsSU=&SEO=

But specifics are not there

Red Flag’ official apologises to IAF

Gautam DattFirst Published : 18 Nov 2008 02:04:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 18 Nov 2008 04:38:45 PM ISTNEW DELHI: After a US Air Force (USAF) pilot was shown in a YouTube clip trashing India’s frontline fighter jet Su-30 MKI saying it failed to impress during the recently held Red Flag war games, the organisers of the exercise have apologised to the Indian Air Force (IAF) for the remarks.


In a letter to Air Headquarters, an official of the Red Flag said it was the personal view of the USAF pilot talking in the clip and not of those involved in the exercise.

The organisers are looking forward for the participation of the IAF in the future editions of Red Flag, said the letter.

The appearance of the clip in the cyber space had embarrassed the IAF even as it was immediately rubbished. The clip shows a pilot apparently giving a presentation but there are no audience shown in the video.

The person, in uniform, talks about how the Su-30 MKIs were dominated by USAF’s F-15s and F-22 Raptors.

The person said in the clip how the aircraft lost out during dogfights and singled out problems with its thrust vectoring and the fact that it took up to a minute to arrange its take-off while the rest of the aircraft took only seconds.

The official, however, praised IAF’s MiG- 21 Bison which has been modified with Israeli radar, active radar missiles and electronic jammers. He claimed MiG-21s were nearly invisible to the F-15 and F-16s, a fact which was demonstrated when the USAF fighters had taken part in joint exercises in India. After the clip surfaced, the IAF took up the issue with defence attaché in the US embassy and efforts were made to get it removed.

The officials said some of the technical claims made in the clip were incorrect and it was a pathetic attempt to prove a point.

Aviation expert Pushpender Singh told to this website’s newspaper that it was unfortunate that the most powerful air force in the world was resorting to such tactics. He said the video was full of inaccuracies. For example, the person in the video claimed that the MiG-21 Bisons were equipped with the Israeli radar.

“It is wrong. The aircraft has a Russian radar,” said Singh.

The clip is being viewed as a ploy by the industry to prove a point. It might be an attempt to convince the US Government in ordering more F-22 Raptors. The US aviation giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin, the makers of F-16s and F-18s, are also competing with Russians for multi-billion dollar contract to supply multi-role combat aircraft to the IAF.


Email

Chellaram
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 25
Joined: 21 May 2007 18:42
Location: Houston, Tx

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Chellaram » 21 Nov 2008 19:56

Amitabh wrote:

The sensationalism of this story is ridiculous.


isnt that how headlines news generally is though? its almost painful to watch that channel -- when they arent showing some overly sensationalized piece, theyre talking about the WWF wrestler Khali, or some silly bollywood gossip, or what some random aussie thinks about the indian cricket team's latest performance (even when they arent playing australia).

sorry mods for going off topic..

Abhi Som
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 2
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 19:22

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Abhi Som » 21 Nov 2008 21:16

With one or two exceptions..Most of these 24 / 7 news channels are a joke
They pick up college kids from the street and give them a mic..and camera

Back in the day a journalism degree meant something..

Pranay
BRFite
Posts: 1463
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Pranay » 22 Nov 2008 06:54

Vishnu,
Congrats! on a good presentation of the IAF participation in the Red Flag exercises. What i would really appreciate, if possible, is if you can have a follow-up show with a comprehensive review (with the absence of sound bite journalism) of the IAF participation in Red Flag in particular and such exercises undertaken with other air forces on Indian as well as foreign soil. You can also have a series for all the three services...

The professionals have already done their due diligence and gained useful and pertinent lessons from these exercises.

The follow-up presentation, with the presence of some senior retired personnel, should delve at depth into the benefits of such exercises for India. What does India, and specifically the particular service participating, gain? Are there any risks (potential of participating personnel and equipment being compromised)? Etc...

This would be beneficial to the lay individual who is interested but only has a superficial understanding of how the military works and unfortunately is ill served by the Indian media in general.

Having served in the USN a long time ago, having participated in armed action and having interacted, at a professional level, with personnel from various NATO navies, a comprehensive program by you would be quite interesting to watch.

Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Jagan » 22 Nov 2008 07:53

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage ... +Air+Force

US Colonel lampoons Indian Air Force Rahul Singh, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, November 18, 2008
First Published: 19:58 IST(18/11/2008)
Last Updated: 21:46 IST(18/11/2008)

In an uncorroborated video put up on the Internet a few weeks ago, a US Air Force official had claimed that Indian Air Force’s most potent Su-30 MKI fighters were no match for the F-22 Raptor, and only slightly better than the older generation F-15 fighters that took part in the Red Flag joint exercise in Nevada this August.

The officer, whose name is Col Terrence Fornof, also said that training and tactics of the IAF were not up to the mark.

Col Terrence Fornof, who is not a fighter pilot, said in the video that the Indian pilots suffered from a high fratricide rate or friendly kills.

The USAF has, however, distanced itself from the video and lauded the performance of Indian pilots. In fact, it has written to the Air Headquarters in Delhi that it has nothing to do with the views of the officer concerned, who was addressing a gathering of retired officers.

The USAF said it is looking forward to more joint exercises with the IAF.

Jagan
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3035
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Contact:

Re: NDTV Documentary and Vishnu's report on Red-Flag video

Postby Jagan » 22 Nov 2008 10:09

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... n-you.html
A final word, from India, on 'YouTube Terry' - Stephen Trimble DEWLINE


Return to “Military Exercises Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest