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Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 22:37
by Mort Walker
chandrasekaran wrote:
Singha wrote:they should cancel this event given the circumstances.

prepare for a real punishing war not gym muscle flexing.


Fully Agree. When most of the country is in mourning, it saddens to see the IAF doing these exercises... More irritating is the press reports that claim "IAF showing it might" and the likes...


I agree. At the most another date should have been announced to allow for mourning of fallen comrades. Instead, business as usual. Nothing will happen.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 23:12
by prasannasimha
The best way to honor these martyrs is to NOT stop the exercises.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 23:27
by ramana
Also excellent opportunity to.finetune the war machine and adjust for glitches.

BTW an analysis of the 2 hour video.is being made and after due approvals will be put here.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 23:34
by ramana
Singha wrote:thankfully no minister is to be seen. I dont think too many foreign attaches have showed up as well given that DD usually pans obligingly over the goras.
seats are a bit unfilled.

the place has the look of a wedding where one side did not show up.

maybe they could have cancelled the orchestral performances.

surreal for sure.

the R73 I dont know if it was inert. missed the sitting duck banshee drone from the rear. the Astra1 sped away to some unknown intercept point too far to see. rest of all drops on target.

2 mins of silence at the beginning would have been nice.

The R73 target was much smaller than real aircraft
Size.
I Would say it's still a hit.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 23:45
by gaurav.p
ramana wrote:The R73 target was much smaller than real aircraft
Size.
I Would say it's still a hit.


Saar, if small would have been the reason then it wouldn't be in the demonstration. Full dress rehearsal was done by them. It would have have worked then. It isn't a big thing imho. It was also posted on twitter that Tejas had previously also shown swing role, but for the first time an operational ac is showing swing role.

Let's not forget that Tejas had the best scores in gaganshakti among the participants. Wish some more focus is given to A2A as well (not tactics but just demos). The day + night operations was great.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 17 Feb 2019 23:54
by nam
One thing compared to last time was A2G accuracy, specially with dumb bombs. 3 LCAs, diving in one after the other with dumb bombs, all making the hole deeper !

The worst was Mig-29, still the hits were within the target circle !

HSLD was phenomenally accurate.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 00:05
by ramana
Nam, Did you capture what size bomb the Jaguar dropped during the night attack? Sounded quite large.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 07:09
by Kakarat
Every bomb dropped by aircrafts other than Mirage 2000 and Su-30MKI were 1000lb

R73 missing the target is not the problem of Tejas but R73 itself. If you remember R73 has missed targets even earlier even when fired from a Su-30MKI
And that is the reason ASRAAM is getting an entry

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 11:26
by manjgu
in one of the earlier editions of demo ..R73 had missed ....any reason we still continue with it or something we dont know about R 73? Any reason why no other A2A missiles are fired? or is it expending old R 73's. They said Astra has a range of 20km i think...

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 16:44
by ArjunPandit
ramana wrote:I Would say it's still a hit.

That was the same thing said during the live telecast, that had it been a larger target, it would have been a hit. Your words add to assurance. skeptics should wait for the post facto analysis if it comes out of IAF

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 17:28
by Austin
There would be lot of factor where any AAM might have a hit or near miss , right from issue with initial data passed on from the launching aircraft to the missile to IIR sensor or proximity fuse issue on the missile causing it to missed the target or was it just a dummy missile with inert warhead ?

Previous VS has shown R-73 fired doing a 90 * turn and hitting a flare with some spectacular explosion of the warhead.

There was no video of Astra hittting any target and exploding either , Could be just that it was inert warhead or there was no target to hit just a launch from Tejas

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 20:07
by tsarkar
Kakarat wrote:Full video

Thanks Kakarat, I just watched half of it at the airport. Here is my assessment scorecard

Heron UAV is providing overwatch

Target 1 - Radar 1 - Harpy/Harop drone - first public appearance

Target 2 - Radar 2 - Two Mirage 2000 each with 4 x 250 kg bombs. First aircraft bracketed the target while the second hit in the center
Target 3 - Runway - Two Su-30 each 4 x 450 kg HSLD quite accurate. Note that these are indigenous weapons.
Target 4 - Fuel - Two MiG-27 - two S-8 rocket pods each with 20 80mm rockets.
Target 5 - SSM launcher - Su-30MKI single LGB direct hit
Target 6 - Weapons Storage Area - Two Jaguars each with 3 1000 lb Retarded Tail Unit delayed action fuse direct hit
Target 7 - C2 Center - Tejas single LGB direct hit
Target 8 - Bunker - 2 Jaguar each with 3 1000 lb bombs direct hit
Banshee - Tejas firing R-73E missed. Thankfully the target is reusable.
Target 9 - 2 MiG-29 each with 2 x 500 kg bombs - fell offset.
Target 10 - Logistics Node - 3 Tejas with 2 x 1000 lb bombs - super accurate
Target 11 - Bulk Petroleum Installation - 2 MiG-27 with 2 S-24 rockets direct hit
Target 12 - Vehicle Convoy - 2 Hawks each with two 68 mm rocket pods couldn’t assess hit
Target 13 - Ops Room - 2 Hawks each with 2 x 1000 lb bombs - super accurate
Target 14 - Tanks - 2 x MiG-21 Bison each with 2 S-24 rockets first missed second direct hit
Target 15 - Concentration Area - 2 Su-30MKI each with 22 100 kg bombs. 44 bombs level release
Su-30 with Astra AAM. That the IAF is firing newly inducted Astra instead of R-77 or R-27 tells for itself.
Target 16 - Troop Concentration 2 x ALH Mk4 20 mm gun 30 degrees off foresight
SHBO 2 x ALH Mk4 1 Mi-17v5 radar
SHBO Mi-17v5 building

All A2G hit credit goes to the amazing Litening LDP equipping Su-30MKI, Tejas, Mirage 2000, Jaguar Darin 2 and MiG-27UPG

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 22:01
by Rakesh
Video ---> https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1097143573210902528 ---> Rudra also known as ALH-WSI, is an armed version of HAL Dhruv. The Rudra is equipped with forward looking infrared (FLIR), thermal imaging sights & carries 20 mm turret gun, 70mm rocket pods, anti-tank guided missiles & air-to-air missiles.

Video ---> https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1096995520147582981 ---> Griffin Laser Guided Bomb (LGB) is a laser-guided bomb system. It is an add-on kit which is used to retrofit gravity bombs, making them into laser-guided smart ammunition. A Su-30MKI Pilot briefs about the LGB, dropped at Pokhran during exercise Vayu Shakti 2019.

Video ---> https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1096237210687418368 ---> MiG-29 upgrade is a multi-role, air dominance fighter aircraft of IAF. It is upgraded to carry a veritable plethora of air-to-air, air-to-surface, precision-guided & standoff weapons along with air-to-air refuelling capability. Glimpse of mighty MiG-29 aircraft.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 22:26
by Karthik S
Gurus,what's our primary BVR missile now? How do they compare to paki AIM 120? Am asking in the backdrop of current situation. We have BVR advantage during Kargil but not anymore. Are our BVR missiles as reliable as paki AIM 120?

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 22:46
by Singha
the AA10 and Astra1 certainly is. the newer lots of AA12 also.

the f16 apg68 radar is not the best out there and they have the C model amraam not the larger motor D model ....2nd rung kit .... and it will be outranged by all of our fighter radars except kopyo. but its still very good.

however I feel best to hunt and kill the F16 fleet on the ground itself.....it is a potent plane due to its big engine and agility in aam mode. paks may carefully move them to quetta for safekeeping in day and move forward on dpsa
and DCA missions at night.

lack of nirbhay is a big gap in our portfolio.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 22:50
by manjgu
Derby, Python. Not sure if Derby ER in in IAF inventory.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 22:55
by Karthik S
Thanks guys.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 18 Feb 2019 23:02
by manjgu
MICA, ASRAAM ( European), Derby & Python ( Israeli) Derby ER ? , AA12 AA11 AA10 ( russian), Astra ( indian)

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 19 Feb 2019 00:50
by ramana
tsarkar, Thanks for the expert insight.
To me the biggest impact was all the bomb fuzes worked unlike in 1965 Peshawar etc.
What fuzes are being used/ The Russian ETM?

Another surprise was Target #12 and #13 obliterated by Hawks!!!
That means in a pinch can use the Hawks after air superiority.

Also please comment on how the Litening helps accurate bombing with dumb bombs? 8)

just want the unwashed to tremble.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 19 Feb 2019 01:50
by ArjunPandit
ramana wrote:Another surprise was Target #12 and #13 obliterated by Hawks!!!
That means in a pinch can use the Hawks after air superiority.
just want the unwashed to tremble.

To add to your point, they will not have air cover for a good chunk as they would like to protect some of their assets for "nuke delivery" and protection of pindi, sargodha skies, isloo be damned. Let kaptaan deal those swinging and screaming yorkers himself. A lot of paki thrust might not have air cover in light of IAF superiority. That leaves sky open for these hawks. Of course they would have stringer gamed it

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 19 Feb 2019 09:26
by Rahul M
manjgu wrote:in one of the earlier editions of demo ..R73 had missed ....any reason we still continue with it or something we dont know about R 73? Any reason why no other A2A missiles are fired? or is it expending old R 73's. They said Astra has a range of 20km i think...

I remember watching the live fire exercise first time during Vayushakti-99 on DD, Su-30K's fired R-73's at flares dropped by another aircraft, the 1st one missed but the second one hit the target.

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 19 Feb 2019 10:12
by Karthik S
Rahul M wrote:I remember watching the live fire exercise first time during Vayushakti-99 on DD, Su-30K's fired R-73's at flares dropped by another aircraft, the 1st one missed but the second one hit the target.


You talking about the case when the missile took U-turn as the flare was behind the jet?

Re: Vayu Shakti 2019

Posted: 20 Feb 2019 03:07
by Karan M
tsarkar wrote:All A2G hit credit goes to the amazing Litening LDP equipping Su-30MKI, Tejas, Mirage 2000, Jaguar Darin 2 and MiG-27UPG


Thanks for tabulating the list, very helpful. About new Litening, apparently it cant be integrated with the Mirage 2000 Upg. Looks like we will need to buy Damocles or some French pod for those.