Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part III

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5850
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Postby Dileep » 09 Aug 2005 23:40

Re-Post from previous thread:

Check out the berkely maps:

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/india/250k.html

This gives physical maps (of 1961 vintage) to 1:250,000 scale of India and Pak.

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/EART/india/250k/nh43_5.jpg

This gives the area you want. Sahiwal was called Montgomery that time. Okara is near the right edge, closer to the top right corner. Montgomery (Sahiwal) is on the rly line going left-down from Okara.

These maps, though old, gives very good info, especially when co-ordinated with google earth.

Added: Pakpattan is on the road going southeast (bottom right) from Sahiwal

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 10 Aug 2005 00:37

In the absence of any real feedback, I have to ask the following to gauge whether I am bowling bouncers:

Did the houbara run?

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3286
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Postby Kakkaji » 10 Aug 2005 01:25

Y I Patel wrote:In the absence of any real feedback, I have to ask the following to gauge whether I am bowling bouncers:

Did the houbara run?


No, it suddenly came out of the brush, charged at the hunter, and bloodied his face with its sharp claws.

Now the audience is nervously waiting to know whether the hunter will get up and strike back at the houbara with the dagger in his belt.

Did I get it right?

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5850
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Postby Dileep » 10 Aug 2005 01:45

I think the hunter mistook a crouching cheetah for a houbara, and the cheetah charged at the hunter, while the falcon was still sitting perched on his gloved hand.

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 10 Aug 2005 01:58

Nope. The houbara did run, exactly as predicted.

Try again :) Answer in about 16 - 20 hours.

Another one while I am at it: who was Abhimanyu, and when did you catch on?

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5850
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Postby Dileep » 10 Aug 2005 02:01

Nope. The houbara did run, exactly as predicted

Well, then the only explanation is, the roles were reversed. the hunter became the hunted.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54781
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby ramana » 10 Aug 2005 02:31

Yogi, Last time I protested against using ancient names you named Cold Start Op Durvasa! Now you give us Balochi bird riddles.
---------
For all those who volunteered early on: Now that we are in Part III of the thread how about going to the archives and creating MS Word/pdf files of each section and send to the Admins?
Last edited by ramana on 10 Aug 2005 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3286
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Postby Kakkaji » 10 Aug 2005 02:44

Y I Patel wrote:Nope. The houbara did run, exactly as predicted.

Try again :) Answer in about 16 - 20 hours.

Another one while I am at it: who was Abhimanyu, and when did you catch on?


Shivi was Abhimanyu.

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 267
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Postby Jay » 10 Aug 2005 06:55

ramana wrote:Yogi, Last time I protested against using ancient names you named Cold Start Op Durvasa! Now you give us Balochi bird riddles.
---------
For all those who volunteered early on: Now that we are in Part III of the thread how about going to the archives and creating MS Word/pdf files of each section and send to the Admins?
..


Ramana garu, I had edited the first two parts to a decent degree, but unfortunately my laptop had a faulty MP unit and is currently with dell, but I do have an ameatures editor's cut of the first 9 pages in word format. Its a pretty huge one with almost 110 pages without any fancy stuff. I have it in my email. Pls post u r mail id, I will forward it to u, else email me at

" iammyne at yahoo dot com"

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Postby svinayak » 10 Aug 2005 08:27

There is a BPO company which does editing of word documents and makes it professional.

Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 108
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 02:02
Location: Quarter Guard
Contact:

Postby Sharma » 10 Aug 2005 10:32

Dear Frens

I am working with Oxford University Press, New Delhi and may help to get this whole thread nicely typeset in printable book form. If you want me to do that please e-mail me at Amit.Sharma@oup.com .

We can also get it printed at Delhi if all of you agree.

It will be my pleasure to do it.

mkulh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 22:23

Postby mkulh » 10 Aug 2005 11:13

Acharya wrote:There is a BPO company which does editing of word documents and makes it professional.

I would be very thankful if you could send me the edited version. my email is mahesh.kulharia@mpi-dortmund.mpg.de
yurs truly
mahesh

mkulh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 22:23

Postby mkulh » 10 Aug 2005 11:15

Sorry, the request was for JAY and not acharaya.

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 267
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Postby Jay » 10 Aug 2005 11:47

Mkuhl, I appreciate your intrest, but I am not the owner of the content so I cannot mail it to you, howeaver u can forward u r request to the admins. Giving the scenarios to the printing press or to an BPO should only be done after the editing has been completed. As the thread involves many scenarios submitted by different writers it will take a lot of time to rearrange them so that the final output would'nt trample on the writers ideas and would also be a good reading material. We defineately need some professional help with the editing part first.
Last edited by Jay on 10 Aug 2005 12:19, edited 2 times in total.

Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 108
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 02:02
Location: Quarter Guard
Contact:

Postby Sharma » 10 Aug 2005 12:16

Dear All,

Once our scenario is ready I can make all the arrangements from Initial estimation, Copy Editing, Designing, Typesetting, Proof Reading, processing and printing.


Yes for that we need to have permission of BR.

Shankar
BRFite
Posts: 1905
Joined: 28 Aug 2002 11:31
Location: wai -maharastra

Postby Shankar » 10 Aug 2005 15:08

PAF BASE COMPLEX -SARGODHA
----------------------------------------
The history of most operation critical air base of pakistan air force at sargodha west of city of lahore can be traced back to july 51 when the disused world war 2 airfield was first occupied by pakistani air force By 1959 all the infrastucture was completed to make ready the base for recieveing the first flying squadron. The first combat aircraft were the legendary F-86F sabres comprising the 33 rd wing of PAF .The F-104 star fightters joined the bas ein 1961 was incidentally the first of pakistans mach 2 capable interceptors. This was followed by F-6 from china and finally the mirage III s replaced the sabres 5 th squadrons sabres.

The layout of Sargodha airbase is complex and well thought of. Several network of taxi and runways make it capable of launching a large number of interceptors in comparitively short time Sprawling over several hundreds of acres of lush gren soil -it is perhaps PAFs most like airbase because of its good residential and recreation facilities . It has seen combat both during the 65 and 71 wars and the pakistani pilots pilots flying out of this base all ways earned respect of their indian adversaries .


Located west of lahore this airbase is the head quarters of centarl air command one of the three principle air comands of pakistani air force. Aircraft currently based includes 2 squadrons of F-16 falcons

While the composition and disposition of pakistans nuclear arsnel remains obscure various inadverant leaks indiacted to indian intel agencies that both f-16 falcons and the M11 will be the likely vehicles for delivery of nuclear weapons if the on going war continues more than a few weeks by which time teritorial integrity of pakisatn as a nation state may be in danger

At the moment IAF believed more than 30 M-11 and an equal number of nuclear gravity bombs are in storage in underground hangers and sheds surrounding the 4 main runways and alternate runways of sargodha air ffield complex. The underground hangers of F-16 S open directly to end of taxi way leading one of the four runways in main or the satelite airfield.
The co-ordinates of the main missile storage shed were believed to be 31.57N 72.43 E . Unconfirmed reports also suggested there may be as many as 90 M-11 s in sargodha .

Sargodha air field complex is quite spread out with sargodha main with a satelite airfield chota sargodha to the west,,wagowal to the north of sargodha main and bhagtanwala to the east nearer indian border .The entire network of air fields is positioned across chenab river with kirana hills rising to 1500 ft . The approximate flying distance to sargodha main from nearest indian airbase is approximately 300 kms and represent less than 15 minutes flying time .

But Sargodha is not an easy target to hit -surrounded by multi layered surface to air missile sites both french and american along with numerous batteries of ack ack guns dotting the kiran hill , atleast 4 falcons on cap any time day or night - to any intruder it would be daunting task indeed.

Vice air marshall Lekh tandon -air officer commanding western air command mulled over the problem as he looked at the hand delivered note from PMO - pakistans offensive nuclear capability should be neutralised and he had 48 hrs to plan and execute the strike . The memo was counter signed by the defense minister and the distinctive peaked signature of air chief. There should be no slip since that would invariable ressult ina limited nuclear exchange -niether could long range missiles be used since that can also have the same effect . Apart from that the entire resources of western air command or any other air command or any command for that matter was at his disposal .

Lekh tandon was a mirage 2000 pilot and still manged to fly the requisite number of hours every month to keep his rating current . His superb strike mission of Mushko dal during kargil war earned him quite a few promotions and now the prestigious command of IAF s most powerful formation . Now was his time to pay back the honour the nation has heaped on him . The air india boeing incident showed how desperate pakistani ruling junta is becomming and their next logical step could not just be permitted .

Its about time indian airforce showed its muscle thought tandon as he picked up his secured phone and started calling up his operational commander from jodhpur ,udaipur,jaipur ,chandigarh, and few other unnamed forward air bases for an urgent face to face brain storming and action plan finalisation and to establish communication protocols betweeen a wide variety of aircraft and weapon systems . He also called up a dedicated group of DRDO scientists for a specific purpose .They were not from the special weapons group.

Within hours Mi-17 s and Mi 8 s and a single mig 27 and a pair of jags landed at air force staion Jodhpur .The air force police gypsies quite picked up the pilots still intheir flying suits and transported to an un marked bunker some where in the sprawling base .

Lot of new tactics will be discussed and a new still under trial weapon counter measure system discussed ,Il-76 s will be tasked with rather unusal role along witheir step sisters the An 32 s . But then all these and more are yet to be discussed and implemented -many lives will be lost also but then that is war all about loosing some to gain some .

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 10 Aug 2005 20:48

Ah. I see there is resounding interest in the existential question of whether the Houbara ran or not. Well, here's the disqusition for all you silent seething masses :)

I am no expert, and like Avadhesh, I can't tell a Houbara from Tandoori Chicken. Nor do we (viz Avadhesh and I) really care. Anyvez, this is how I think a hunt would go. Nature has given the Houbara a fantastic camoflage in its habitat - if a houbara remains still and hidden, the Shaheen can't find it. So something has to be done to flush it out, like our wannabe Arab Obaid says. When it runs, the falconeer releases the falcon, the falcon swoops and does the dirty work, and the Arabs eat the roasted end product.

So far so good. Now Obaid thinks the Indian formation inside Pak is his houbara. Note that he has not even bothered to find out what that formation is! That's because he just talks a good game. He is really a hollow, grasping person who has always gotten favoured treatment because of his birth. But now he is in deep trouble and also in deep denial. He falls back on comforting shibboleths to deny the reality of a maurauding Indian force. Nero may have fiddled while Rome burnt, but our man is made of sterner stuff. He does the manly thing and goes skeet shooting. So no, he is not the hunter, and IBG 606 is not the houbara.

Now take a look at Avadhesh. The archetypical middle class striver: crude, sharp, worldly wise, ruthlessly ambitious, an extremely sophisticated and devious operator, with an enormous chip on his shoulder about his lack of refinement. Notice how he laid a trap within a trap for his subordinate Saha whom Avadhesh is secretly intimidated by!

Avadhesh, for all his profanity and inarticulateness, operates on an exquisitely sophisticated model of Pak behaviour. He knows how Pakis will respond to a breach in PakJab. If he were Saha he would have said that by attacking 2 Corps, he was hitting a vital centre of gravity in Pakistan. And he was. The Pak Army, by the iconic defender status it has granted itself, makes its defensive credibility a keystone of the RAPE edifice. Hammer that, and a lot of things collapse into a pile of debris.

So Avadhesh lays this ruthless trap. Ruthless, because IBG 606 is his bait and 2 Corps is his houbara. It does not matter to him what IBG 606 does once 2 Corps is flushed out. IBG can go into a defensive shell or mount a rear guard through Bravo. The important thing is that once the Houbara (2 Corps) runs, his Shaheen (IAF!) will be there to swoop down and finish the panicked Houbara off! But Avadhesh does have a redeeming quality - he hears Kaul out, and supports IBG 606 with all available elements (6 IAB, 34 IIB) when Kaul suggests the audacious plan to hit 2 Corps near Sahiwal. This, even though Kaul's plan introduces a dangerous and unpredicatble element in Avadhesh's scheme of things. Avadhesh, in case you are interested, has shades of one Narendrabhai Modi.

But now we come to my most haunting character, and his role in the entire saga. We see how the Battle of Sahiwal becomes an ambiguous battle, for all its glory. Did it really need to happen, if IAF was going to finish 2 Corps anyway? Did Shivi's heroic charge and his superlative attack at Sahiwal matter? Similarly, did his other fateful battle in Blue Star really have to take place? Shivi, as Anoop pointed out in a private email, is a character full of pathos. He faces his cousin in combat on his Dharmakshetra, he is tortured by questions and doubts about his destiny and his dharma. He is an Arjun without the benevolent guiding presence of Krishna. Was there such a character in Mahabharat? A brave warrior, one who raged against his destiny and found his soul in karma, one who lost his mobility at a vital stage in a battle, one who was murdered when he jumped down from his chariot?

Shivi was not the Abhimanyu at Sahiwal. That was, in reflection, all a big red herring. In Shivi I inadvertently recreated another, equally compelling chracter out of Mahabharat.

Tell me, Arya Anoop. I grant that you are fully up to speed on my machinitions. Tell me now, who Shivi is.
Last edited by Y I Patel on 10 Aug 2005 21:15, edited 3 times in total.

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 10 Aug 2005 20:58

Anoop Gokhale rubbed his eyes and yawned. He stared blankly at the map in front of his eyes at the NCP. An enormous plasma screen with displayed the positions of the enemy forces in red and the advancing Indian forces in blue. Over his shoulder he spied the pleased look in the eyes of the politicians and the general staff.

Anoop was a member of the "young blood" that had been infused into the NSC's ranks about six years ago. Like the others, Anoop had been called one fine morning to his boss's office and asked to leave his position as a minor bureaucrat in the Cabinet Sect. and take up a new post as a strategist in the National Security Council Secretariat. For the past six months along with Col. (r) Nair, Anoop had been wandering through briefing after briefing by folks at ARTRAC, DMO and all the other alphabets in the soup. About four months ago, Anoop had been reading his copy of the MB... when it hit him and he ran to his office that night to write up a simple one page document. The document was hand delivered to key persons and that had shaped a lot of what had happened recently.

"The chakravhuya is an impenetrable defence arrangement. To break it you have to get key elements of it - esp. the main reactive forces to move to positions of greater vulnerability. The vyuha ultimately like every defensive position imposes a limitation on the defender - it leaves him vulnerable to the gap created by the movement of the reactive forces. This leaves the initiative with the attacker. To draw out the main reactive force - you have to make a sacrifice - a credible sacrifice. This is the *only* way to penetrate the arrangement. "


In the MB that sacrifice was Abhimanyu. In the events of yesterday "Abhimanyu" was the 606 IBG. The "sacrifice" of the 606 IBG had drawn the Pakistan Army's 2 Corps into the open. The Pakistani commander has attacked 606 IBG thinking that it was over-extended. General Obaid was relying on the fact that 606 IBG's commander would soon realize that he is up against the 2 Corps and that will cause him to turn and run. Obaid knew that such a "turn and run" would cause 606 IBG to be killed - this would constitute an easy victory for him. Keen on reliving the victories of Khalif Umar over the vastly superior Persian forces at Qadissiyya and Nihavand - Obaid had forgotten his Indic roots and lost the understanding of the significance of the story of Abhimanyu. Obaid simply did not realize that Abhimanyu had willingly and deliberately gone into the charavhuya with the sole aim of weakening it.

In the psychological space of the RAPE, the 2 Corps was their bulwark against a physical occupation of *their* lands. It was to block and deny the filthy Hindu ba*tards a toehold on the RAPE homeworld. The movement and exposure of the 2 Corps created a vast gap in the RAPE psychological space and there was nothing to fill in the void...
Last edited by Sunil on 10 Aug 2005 23:53, edited 7 times in total.

Manne
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 11:31
Location: Mumbai

Postby Manne » 10 Aug 2005 20:58

Sooryaputra - but one who turned out victorious.

Anoop
BRFite
Posts: 451
Joined: 16 May 2002 11:31

Postby Anoop » 10 Aug 2005 21:33

YIP,

Shivi is Karna. It is a detail that Shivi happened to fight on the 'good' side. Like Karna, he used his Brahmastra once to fell (Pak) 2 Corps' 6 Armd Div (Ghatotkacha), but it was meant to be used on Arjun ((Pak) 2 Corps) himself. Like Karna, his armour is undone (no logistic support due to IA 2 Corp being held at Bravo) and he jumped out of his chariot (tank) when he was felled.

I must humbly withdraw my brash claim to being up to date with your feints. You are a slippery customer and I don't think Abhimanyu figures in your cast of characters (as Sunil points out, IBG 606 is Abhimanyu). If I were to continue along the mythological path, I'd say that Avadesh is Krishna himself - remember him sending Arjun away from the field of battle that day, so Abhimanyu would be the only one with the knowledge to break the Chakravyuha? I wonder if Partha (of 21 Corps?) is his namesake...

Continue the story, Arya putra :)

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 10 Aug 2005 21:48

Anoop wrote:YIP,

If I were to continue along the mythological path, I'd say that Avadesh is Krishna himself - remember him sending Arjun away from the field of battle that day, so Abhimanyu would be the only one with the knowledge to break the Chakravyuha? I wonder if Partha (of 21 Corps?) is his namesake...

Continue the story, Arya putra :)


I don't think it was brash at all, to claim that you are up to speed on my hijinnks! Parth (or maybe his formation Kharaga (IA 2) Corps) is definitely ment to be Arjun, and Avadhesh did deliberately allow Saha to dick around instead of insisting that Parth and his Kharga Corps go in at once. You got that frill as well. I gotta make Avadhesh more civilized, now that you point out the (quite consistent) parallel to Krishna himself :shock:

PS for the epically challenged:
Avadhesh = Avadh Esh or lord of Avadh. Lord Rama, the 7th Avatar of Vishnu. The 8th was Lord Krishna.

PPS
I didn't really start out intending to make a Karna character. It was amazing, though, how appositely the character turned out!

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 267
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Postby Jay » 10 Aug 2005 22:13

The following is the number of posts submitted by each of the writers which I have with me from the first section. Notice that I have clubbed couple of scenarios so as to mantain the continuity. I am not submitting the posts of couple of writers as independent scenarios cause they have submitted their scenarios just once and that too in conjunction with other scenarios, more like an extention.

SINGHA - 17 POSTS
RUDRADEV - 2
SUNIL - 11
BHAVANI - 4
DENIS - 1
JTULL - 2
DAULAT -6
YIPATEL - 8
RAJPA - 1
GUEST - 2

Except for the GUEST the list is in order of the submission of their respective first scenarios.

If the above writers can give me their mail id's I will send u an edited version of the first part, else i'm gonna mail my copy to the admin and he can distribute it to u guys.


" iammyne at yahoo dot com"

Rich
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 46
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Postby Rich » 10 Aug 2005 22:22

Jay - Shankar is missing from your list.

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 10 Aug 2005 22:25

If this is to be published, the most important decision would be the appointment of an editor. It will be a Bhagirath Prayas, and a thankless one at that. Important quality in editor would be the ability to sift through the posts and even delete or modify as appropriate. The differing writing styles will have to somehow be blended. And very importantly, important nuances will have to be preserved through all changes. Will require an excellent grasp of military issues and an easy command of english. Will require the patience of Job and the preseverence of ...

I am not volunteering for that task, though I would be happy to help any poor soul who does do so.

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 10 Aug 2005 23:03

SRR will provide editorial services if the submission is made. I propose that this be run as a special on SRR. All interested in participating please contact me at breadomlette at yahoo dot com

After the SRR article is ready - then we will see if anyone has an interest in publishing it as a book in India. I would prefer to go with Lancer given their background in these matters (Op Topac, Op Zarb-e-Kamil etc...) I am sure their editorial guidance will be far superior to anything that OUP or others could concievably manage.

Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2617
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Postby Cybaru » 10 Aug 2005 23:20

Not to butt my nose in.. but a lot of it needs to connect.. at this point, there are tons of random thoughts.. How about a complete rewrite on the parts by the respective authors since they know how the story connects...

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 10 Aug 2005 23:36

Hi,

I agree with Cybaru. I wrote parts of the story in response to things that others had written so my posts are really fillers. Pulling all this together is not going to be easy.

However the work that YIP is doing in the past few weeks has simply kicked things up to a new level. I think this needs to be accorded the most space possible in the story. This is the first major public exposition of the ground war dimension to a modern India-Pakistan conflict (below the nuclear threshold). I think it adds nicely to Airavat's work in "Op Karthikeya" which focussed on the IAF. I would prefer to see this made into a separate work all by itself with appropriate thought being given to schemes by which the Jihadis and the PA will fight alongside each other. Shankar's work can be melded into that as can the story of Ghyari.

Singha's stories about the Eastern front are also completely new. I think that needs to be made into a separate piece.

Maybe after this is done - the two stories can be brought under one roof. This will take time so don't jump around too much.

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 11 Aug 2005 00:16

I cannot tell you guys how incredibly draining writing the Battle of Sahiwal has been. The whole story, right up to Shivi's demise, has been fermenting in my mind for almost a month, and way before the first word was typed in "The Huddle Part 1". I thought long and hard about one story that would blend elements of doctrine (the massive punch at a vital centre of gravity) and accurate operational details (the conceptual description of an IBG and its blazing march to Sahiwal is a distillation of ALL my years on BRF); and finally, one that melds everything in into a wide Daliesque canvas with layer upon layer of meaning.

Why am I saying all this? Because the story is incomplete, and I simply do not have the time or energy or creativity to go much further on my own. IBG 606 is a spent force. Someone will have to take over with the many important battles that can still be told. I can think of at least three or four other epic proportion treatments, but I can't go into any or all of them by myself:

(1) the liberation of Sindh (this could include an armoured corps thrust and an amphibious invasion)

(2) the para brigade attack on skardu; the capture of Khapalu, Gultari and Kotli/Haji Pir pass

(3) Avadhesh's Sherman-like march to Quetta or Bahawalpur or Lahore with Kharga Corps

(4) the climactic political dismemberment of Pakistan by concerted international action. Pakis have been deluding themselves that they have international protectors. Let them realise that their actions will mean that Pakistan dies a paraiah, unloved and unlamented by anyone. Shankar's posts have already gone a long way in painting a picture of Pakistan's increasing international isolation. This needs to be developed in a holistic politico-military manner into a convincing tale of regime change

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 267
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Postby Jay » 11 Aug 2005 00:44

:D
Last edited by Jay on 11 Aug 2005 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

Jay
BRFite
Posts: 267
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Postby Jay » 11 Aug 2005 00:44

Rich wrote:Jay - Shankar is missing from your list.


Rich I went through the posts again but could'nt locate Shankar's scenarios. Could u pls post the link, by the way I edited the first part i.e. the first 9 pages.....If u r takling abt the seacond archived thread, thats under process now


After going through those 100+ pages more then a couple of times I feel that a part time editor's efforts won't be sufficient, but i'll do my best. Patel, can u email me so that I can send u a copy of the first archived thread. Go through it and send me suggestions abt the story line. Since now we are in the thirs part I suggest people to share the work. I can do the first archived part, I have started on the seacond part also but its gonna take some time since I have my semester's final term in abt 10 days time. Yup right now there r a lot of random ideas, but we can put them in place. I am in ......
Last edited by Jay on 11 Aug 2005 01:17, edited 1 time in total.

Rich
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 46
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Postby Rich » 11 Aug 2005 01:08

:oops: Sorry Jay, my mistake - I was referring to the 2nd archived thread.

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 11 Aug 2005 01:16

Jay, you might want to contact Sunil at breadomlette at yahoo dot com, since he has already indicated that SRR may play a coordinating/editorial role. We can remain in contact via him, since he and I are in fairly regular contact.

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Postby Y I Patel » 11 Aug 2005 01:50

IMHO the whole scenario has reached a stage where it needs some international orientation to stay credible. India is no hermit kingdom, and recent events show just how much India and Western democracies need to work in tandem about the Pakistan problem. I know Johann came up to periscope depth fleetingly, when a Brit submarine was in danger. Perhaps he can be induced to surface again?

Here is something I can throw up to generate ideas. If anyone wants to take it and run with it, please be my guest!

****

In Pakistan, the military has taken over politics, business, and pretty much everything else that has anything to do with running a country. In an interesting mirror image case, there is a country where businessmen and politicians have pretty much taken over a military. The results could not be more spectacularly different.

The country, of course, is USA. When people talk about military traditions, USA is not a country that immediately springs to mind - people think of Germans (Nazis, not the current tree huggers) or Soviets or French (Napoleon, not the current surrender bunnies) or even Brits with their Regimental traditions... USA does have its own unique military tradition, one that few people have cared to really study. This is a country that witnessed one of the bloodiest modern conflicts between two states, one replete with corps/army level manoevers and land-water campaigns. That existential conflict is dismissed by most as a mere civil war.

In this country of businessmen, Generals and Admirals seemlessly transition to politics and business, and continue to contribute their considerable managerial, technocratic and political talents to the further enrichment of their country. If Pakistani Generals retire to a parasitic existence on their farms or sprawling real estate developments, American Generals and Admirals retire and become productive leaders, statesmen, and business tycoons. If Pakistani Generals determine their next president or senator, American Presidents or their Defense Secretaries personnally vet Flag Officer level appointments and labour to have them approved by the Congress. In Pakistan, Generals in mufti become Presidents and CEOs of industries. In America, politicians and bbusinessmen actively connive to have their soul mates infiltrated into the higher rungs of the armed forces - there are instances galore of this; some celebrated examples are General MacArthur, General Powell, and of course, the one and only Admiral Rykover.

Admiral Thomas Kinkaid V was something of an outlier - after a long, distinguished career that culminated as CINCPAC, he chose to shun further political limelight that was his for taking, and instead chose a quiet retirement to a stud farm in his native Kentucky. His publicly stated ambition, post-retirement, became to breed a winner of the Belmont Sweepstakes. But of course, the old sea dog didn't cut himself off from his various interesting buddies.

One of them was a software tycoon from Silicon Valley. The software tycoon tended to be deliberately vague nowadays about his younger years, but the Admiral had no reason to forget a brash young submariner who had snuk up and taken some fairly high quality photos of the then Captain Kinkaid's aircraft carrier. Later, the Admiral caught up with the perpetrator during one of his visits to India, and treated the squid to couple of beers. The friendship budded when the submariner opted for early retirement and emmigrated to US as a professor at a west coast university; then became even more intimate and mutually enriching when the Admiral accepted a post on the Board of Directors of the software tycoon's venture funded company. The crusty old aviator's proteges now lorded over Pentagon, and the brash submariner's NDA batchmates now resided in Integrated Defense Headquarters. Their abiding friendship, and the Admiral's oft professed fascination with India and things Indian were no secrets on either side of the globe.

No one really noticed or raised eyebrows when the two buddies seemed to pop up more and more frequently at each other's parties or business meetings. This particular one was at the plush and discreet Stanford University Faculty Club, and the two were joined by an old Dean and a retired old IFS type who shuttled fairly regularly across the seas.

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 11 Aug 2005 04:30

Email me guys - that way I'll coordinate the SRR end of it.

Shankar
BRFite
Posts: 1905
Joined: 28 Aug 2002 11:31
Location: wai -maharastra

Postby Shankar » 11 Aug 2005 12:53

PAF BASE -SARGODHA MAIN
----------------------------------
Air commodore Latif hakim was pre occupied .The recent ban on spares from US was a very unwelcome news .Lockheed martin acted with super alarcity and even the spare engine and tyres which were already enroutte to airport were recalled without any prior intimation. Of course his reserves were more than adequate for another 15 days at the present level of engaement and if the aircraft particularly the falcons were restricted to air defense role only but he knew that was not the way to fight a war and definitely not a war with indian forces who with their overwhelming technical advantage and numerical superiority have already significantly dented the offensive capability of pakistani armed forces . He blamed the whole un winnable situation on the rash action of navy . By sinking a small ship they have managed to awaken the mighty indian military machine and now it was on him to stop the moving juggernut .

At his disposal ,spread over four airfields were 26 falcons and an equal number of Mirage III s . In the adjoining hill inside dug out bunkers there were the ultimate weapons over which he had no authority and they were in partially assembled condition . The enriched uranium core was stored in seperate high security vault in an adjoining cave and authority to enter the cave was with the permission of president only . In his last briefing after the air india fiasco the president has made itclear that use of strategic weapons is out of the question since no way the present confliict can be justified as serious enough to threaten the teritorial integrity of pakistan and US is quite clear onthe issue . Use of even a single nuke even a low yield tactical one will make them take direct action -whatever that does mean.

The president will be visiting the base for a chiefs inspection tomorrow morning .Latif had to get the complex ship shape and the line up of falcons and should be spic and span and the lines neat and symmetrical .
Ofcourse that will mean for a few hours the teeth of PAF will be exposed to indian satelites but then what harm it can do . How ever he decided to increase the cap level tomorrow morning from 4 to 8 falcons during the presidents visit . He picked dup his cap and walked out to inspect the neat line of F-16 getting ready onthe tarmac for the bi annual inspection by the supreme commander and hoped to present his next strike plan
to him personally .

CARTSAT 3 1000 KMS OVER SARGODHA
------------------------------------------------
Keeping pace with the movement of the sun cartsat 3 moved over the sargodha air field complex ,its high resolution (0.5 mtrs ) quitely clicked on the F-16 /Mirage III dispaly line being set up just besides the main runway and the photographs were down linked to its dedicated earth station some where in central india and also relayed by an INSAT directly to air head quarters in delhi . It took another 3 hrs for the air forces photo interpreters to understand the significance of the sargodha shot and the high resoultion digital snaps were on desk of air officer commanding western comand before he commenced his mission briefing to his operational commanders .

BHAKRA NANGAL DAM
--------------------------
lLong back ,when india was still under british rule a concern always troubled the rulers -how to tap indias vast water reserves that drained into
sea while most of the country did not have enough water to irrigate the fields or enough power to light the home or run an industry. In the years that followed theidea to tap sutlej river for effective water utilisation in himachal pradesh was worked out time and again ,in 1908 the idea took the shape of a project but the sheermagnitude of the project detered the expert from taking a decision . Spresd over 3 decades five different reports were tabled for approval but nothing happened on ground.

In 1937 Dr A N K hosla a civil engineer from roorkee university further worked on these reports after taking over as superdent engineer.He was entrusted with the atsk fo carrying out the feasibility studies on bhakra .Agreat visionary he proposed a multi purpose project with provision for power generation included for the first time

After india gained independence he increased the height of the dam to its fullest potential and decide to take the plunge. He was given total support from pandit jawharlal nehru whose personal vision included many such temples of modern india.

Pandit nehru invited M Harvey Slocum an american lehend in dam construction to kick start the project .Though slocum had no formal education and no engineering degree he was still the best.

The site was remote ,difficult terrain and virtually no infrastucture ,the nearest road was 60 kms away but under slocums leadership indian engineers turned this collosal project into reality under cost and under time .
With a lenght of 325 ft at bottom and 1700 ft at top the monster dam wasfour times higher than quotab minar. The massive structure required more cement than would be required to lay a 8ft wide road around equator .
The total cost of this gigantic venture was 245 crores at 1963 price. It was a symbol pride for independent india The water resiver or lake created by this giant dam is called Govind sagar It is more than 96kms long and have a capacity fo 9340 million cu meter .This quantity of water can take care of a city like delhi for 5 yrs with a population of 130 million.

This dam has drastically changed the life style and prosperity of four states -punjab haryana rajastan and delhi . Itmade green revolution possible and made india self reliant in food by 1972 within ten years of it being constructed

This was the target selected PAF central command . The air comdrs pllam was to launch the massive strike immediately after presidents inspection so that he can be personally present when the india s most prestigious dam is blown up and catastrphic after effects come on television .

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2005 13:40

Divertionary attacks preceding the main one would be launched by MirageIIIs flying from four other airbases on following targets to draw away and deplete the IAF CAPs over north India

- Dadri thermal power station (delhi)
- REL Noida thermal power station (west UP)
- Road and Rail bridge over Yamuna north of Delhi (vital to logistics for northern command)
- Jodhpur railway junction and associated logistic nodes
- A mass of indian armour currently undergoing field repairs between Amritsar and the wagah border
- Kalka tank depot.
- Gurgaon Udyog Vihar

Each target to be attacked by 3 a/c only, all proceeding alone on different low level routes on a 1000km frontage designed to stretch IAFs screen thin, leaving gaps in cover. In all 21 Mirage-IIIs to participate each with 2 x 700L drop tanks and 2 x 500LB Maverick bombs and 1x 1000lb incendiary / HE bomb under the fuselage. Flights to take off around 5:30PM just as dusk was falling, hit the sites at night and recover to designated bases in the rear. IAF cannot afford to ignore even a solitary ac lest it enter the unprotected rear and cause severe damage somewhere and one a/c could well be the lead element of more on the way...Night
was ideal to reduce the possibility of WVR with IAFs roving Mig29s and the few Mirages that could be spared for CAPs. it was estimated IAF would need to devote 2 a/c per attacker..taking 42 a/c out of the equation. Since only around 15 a/c were on CAP at anytime over north india (a huge number and stress on airframes), IAF would need to panic surge all of the ready reserve of ~25 a/c sitting in various shelters to tackle this threat. A well designed high burst of command traffic within Pak and decoys by F7s within Pak airspace would make this seem like a Tet Offensive style all-out attack. With the ready reserve depleted, there hopefully wouldnt be too much around to tackle the well armed Falcons each with state of the art APG68v9 radar, ECM, Amraam-markB (sadly amrika bahadur hadnt supplied the demanded for C5 model), aim9x and 1000LB tungsten cased LGBs each falcon carried three of these and LANTIRN pods.

Main Falcon Task Force to take off 20 mins after the Mirages, giving time for indian radars to detect and send hunters after the decoys. Task force to fly at 100 ft, 300knots and mask themselves in the ground clutter before emerging near indian border. Heavy radar jamming via chinese/US ground based ECM to be used for degrading effectiveness of indian Phalcon and Aerostat radars.

4 Badar cruise missiles to be launched at the Amritsar radar just before H-hour. another 4 at the Srinagar radar.

Shaheen units to be on 15 min alert for possibility of indian nuclear retaliation. President to be in secure location and on the phone to Beijing,london and DC immediately after the flight radioed success to explain why he had no option but to take this step and demanding his patrons and the UN use their good offices to prevent the conflict escalating. With most of punjab plains flooded and devasted, any further fighting would be well nigh impossible and President would offer a honourable peace with both parties going back under UN supervision to the IB. Initial projections of civilian and military KIA in indian punjab ran between 15,000-50,000 depending on many factors that couldnt be precisely nailed down by Pak WAPDA and Mangla experts. Pak DC envoy
Ms Waleeha to appear with signed and sealed letter pre-sent from the President and knock on white house door seeking an urgent appointment with the big man himself.

if the Baaz(falcon) Plan as it was called worked, the war would be effectively over barring the inevitable negotiating over scraps of land and Pakistan would have managed a face saving withdrawal with the bulk of its AF's high quality assets (Block52 falcons), missile force, ARS and ARN intact and capable of defending the country. ARC was a big loss but already beijing had promised 1:1 replacement on a deferred payment basis from its own stocks and ships carrying T-90II tanks were expected within couple of months once the chinese factories ramped up production.

All in all, The General felt it was worth taking this small chance - afterall who dares wins(!) is the motto of every genuine SF in the world and He had done it all and seen it all.

--
far to the south of the proposed action the coming night, #20 Lightnings big hunters lay rested and well fed by the 'eagle keepers' in their HAS. they had bloodied whoever they came across in their offensive sweeps and proved themselves the uncontested rulers of wherever they took their fancy to go. no sooner did the Pak RWR bleat the Bars music then a wild scurrying started to evade and move to the rear following express orders from high up to avoid getting into scraps with the 4-packs and sometimes 8-packs of hunters roaming around.

Jacob ran out of his shared officers dormitory, paid little attention to the proceedings and after finding cover among the reeds beside a taxiway proceeded to pee peacefully for a full 2 mins. word had it the base doctors were snooping around the mens room collecting samples surreptitiously from the piss pots (some traitor must have snitched on his buddies) and he sure didnt want no one to sample his first concentrated piss of the day, esp NOT that pretty lady doc who had been friendly to him. and he wanted
to avoid yet ANOTHER reprimand and demotion to the ranks until the war was over. bladder emptied, he went off cheerfully to get a good breakfast, chuckling to himself if the doctors were to see what was brewing inside that 'damaged' old mig21 150L drop tank his gang had stashed away in a disused hanger close to hand. and why his gang had been buying so many grapes lately in the market - sweet small ones from nagpur. over time
their expertise in ground-to-ground refueling ops from the tank(nicknamed RDY2 in honour of their current base) had built up to formidable levels.

Shankar
BRFite
Posts: 1905
Joined: 28 Aug 2002 11:31
Location: wai -maharastra

Postby Shankar » 11 Aug 2005 16:46

IAF STATION -JODHPUR - MISSION BRIEFING
------------------------------------------------------
Everyone stood up when air vice marshal lekh tandon took the stage not just becuase he was the commanding officer but also because most of the pilots now having their operational command were trained by him in the early years and they stood up out of a deep seated respect for the vetern pilot rathaer than stiff military protocol.

- Gentle men we are running out of time .All indiactions show the PAF is getting gready for a massive air strike -their likely targets we think is eiether the national capital region or the bhakra nagal dam with associated power plant . There are also unconfirmed intel reports that some of the M-11 s arebeing moved out of sargodha to remote airfields in north west most likely peswar and multan. We have orders to neutralise pakistani offensive capability to the extent they dont try mumbai high type incident ever again.

The target you all know is one of the most heavilly defended targets in all of pakistan . The last sat imagery and humanit indicates a possible high level inspection tomorrow early morning .So any large scale attack is not likely before then -and ther lies our strike window,

We have to neutralise their long range search radars as well as static and mobile tracking radar s and also have to be sure numerous man portable sam systems are out of action before the ground strike missions commence .

The carto sat 3 picture which is now on screen shows about 28 falcons being lined up with attendant tarctors being pushed into position for tomorrows inspection /attack .In all probability The aircraft s will be mission ready at the time of inspection which means full of fuel and weapons . That gentleman makes our task a little easier .A throaty collective laugh greeted his last remark.

In adjoing satelite airfields we also see almost equal number of Mirage III s being readied for possibly a similar or decoy missions so those will form our secondary target .

Phalcon flight 3 hrs back have reported heavy cap screen of 8 falcons over the sargodha complex up from their usal 4 craft flight -which means possibly they are expecting some kind of attack or plain nervous at having so much of their assets in one place and at one time .

We intend to hit them and hit them hard -hopefully this willmake them see sense . But from my point of view this is the best chance for us to show case the capability of IAF our nation and to the world .

By the way because of high risk nature of this mission this is purely voluntry mission -any one wanting to opt out is free to do so .

This time he was greeted with scowls and angry mutterings -pilots of indian airforce dont like these kind of condescending remarks even from the air officer commanding .

Lekh tandon smiled and said sorry -i should not have said that .His chest swelled with pride at his young pilots many of whom he has hand trained inthe fine art of strike missions deep inside hostile teritory

Ok now here is the basic strike plan

alpha group consisting of four flights of 3 sukhoi each will be responsible for initial strikeat static radars and missle silos as markedout on the map .They will be responsible to maintain total air superiority inthe strike corridor for the entire duration of the mission . Your cruise and strike altitude is 40000 ft .Pl dont go below it under any circumstances since those altitudes are likely to be very very congested
- beta group consisting of 8 flight s of four mig 27 each shall take off from this base with FAB 500 load and full load for your Gsha a s .You donot have any self protectioncapability except the gun on your nose .Your ingress altitude will be 500 ft and go supersonic only 10 km from target .
Egress altitude is 300 ft .Time over target is precisely 5 minutes .Your primary target is the falcons on ground and secondary target are the mirage III s in adjoining air fields .
you will follow the 2 flights of 6 jaguars each which will close ly follow the initial ground strike by sukhois and use principaly laser guided 1000 kg bombs for hard shelters and radar installations

Charlie flight consisting of 2 flights of 6 jaguars each will ingress at 100 ft and egress at same altitude .You are not authorised to fly over 200 ft underany circumstances .We dont want mid airs at the moment .

Delta flight shall consist of 4 IL 76 with a dedicated escort of 12 Mig 21 bisons .You will ingress from south after cap have been neutralised by the alpha flight and Charlie flight has egressed from target zone . Your cruise speed is restricted to 450 knost all thru .It is personal responsibilty to ensure no errant mirage takes down the candids .The IL-76 will carry indian daisy cutter 4 each each weighing 5000 kgs a variant of standard fuel air explossive to neutralise the high density of mobile sams and manpads .After they are thru i assure you gentle men not many stingers will be fired . The laughter from the audience was spontaneous as the senior piots slowly started to comprehend the magnitude of the missionthey are going to undertake .

- 5 minutes before the sukhos strike 2 mig 25 r s modified to carry ultra light carbon fibre bombs will make a high speed pass over sargodha deploying the trillions of small carbon fibre shreds which will join together and form a temporary radar blanket over the entire sargodha main complex shorting out the radar tarnsmitters as they float down and absorb all electromagnetic radiation being emmited by radars . So for the time it takes for the radiation absorbing material to float down to earth .Simulation studies shows it takes about 6 minutes from 50000 ft but it would be prudent to conside a 5 minute window for strike initiation after that itis upto you to make it count

the silence was total as the commanding officer waited for questions -ther was none so he continued as if nothing out of ordinary has been mentioned

Phalcon 3 will be controlling the air battle under mydirect command so any of you plan changing the scenario do it now . Tanker supprt will be available all thru so plan to keep on max ordanance and make the strike count

A chorus of question and hands shot up immediatel y and it will be more than 3 hrs before the meeting came to a close.

VKumar
BRFite
Posts: 599
Joined: 15 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Mumbai,India

Brahmos

Postby VKumar » 11 Aug 2005 17:56

In this war we have Shiv's Tandav and Krishna's MB. Waht role for Brahma's Brahmos?

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 11 Aug 2005 19:42

Jay wrote:The following is the number of posts submitted by each of the writers which I have with me from the first section. Notice that I have clubbed couple of scenarios so as to mantain the continuity. I am not submitting the posts of couple of writers as independent scenarios cause they have submitted their scenarios just once and that too in conjunction with other scenarios, more like an extention.

SINGHA - 17 POSTS
RUDRADEV - 2
SUNIL - 11
BHAVANI - 4
DENIS - 1
JTULL - 2
DAULAT -6
YIPATEL - 8
RAJPA - 1
GUEST - 2

Except for the GUEST the list is in order of the submission of their respective first scenarios.

If the above writers can give me their mail id's I will send u an edited version of the first part, else i'm gonna mail my copy to the admin and he can distribute it to u guys.


" iammyne at yahoo dot com"


Jay,

If you read this, please email me at breadomlette at yahoo dot com. I have had offline discussions with Ramana on how to proceed with this.

If you can please organize the data in the following fashion.

Put all posts by a writer into *one* file. Each post should be numbered eg.

Singha's first post should be labelled Singha-1, his second post Singha-2 and so on.

Once this is done please send me all the files at my yahoo mail address.

Anyone interested in helping SRR sort through these scenarios please email me asap.

Sunil
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 21 Sep 1999 11:31

Postby Sunil » 11 Aug 2005 20:10

They met under the Banyan tree in the village of Ziradeyi, in Saran district of Bihar... the Sage dressed in a simple white robe looked on with near indifference and the journalist and the bureaucrat sat cross legged on the ground below him. An unmarked GoI ambassador car stood in the distance and a driver also in plainclothes nervously smoked a bidi.

The bureaucrat pulled his hands together into the ubiquitious namaskaram... the Indian salutation and spoke softly..

"Swami.. The battle of Sahiwal represents the undoing of Pakistan as we know it. Our objectives over the last 42 hours were to use the 606 IBG to lure out the Pakistani 2 Corps into the open. The IAF will finish the 2 Corps in another day or so but entire southern flank of Punjab is now open and the Punjabi elite in Pakistan lie exposed. General Avadesh will soon march on the lands of West Punjab with his reserves and every grain of sand that his army touches will turn to fire. "

The Sage looked on as if nothing had been said... and the journalist spoke..

"Aryavar... by way of General Avadesh's march... every act of horror by the Punjabi Mussalmans.. from the betrayal of the Purbia heroes of 1857, to the genocide of the Bengalis, the Kashmiris and the Afghans will be avenged... and peace shall slowly return to our lands.."

Upon hearing this.. the Sage shook his head.. and finally spoke...

" A deer in the desert chases a mirage thinking it is water... but upon reaching it.. finds nothing to quench its thirst there... such is the human mind"

With pitiless eyes the Sage spoke again..

"a fire can only burn... "

Tears welled up in the eyes of the Bureaucrat and the Journalist and after a few minutes of silence they left as they had come.

***

N.B. For this piece - I have borrowed from a discourse by the late Sri. Chandrashekharendra Saraswati.


Return to “Military Scenarios Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest