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Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part VII

rudradeep
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Postby rudradeep » 13 Apr 2007 21:30

PaulJI wrote:No, it's dead, & has been for a long time, unless it's very well protected.

Dead, but how? Chinese Air defence has been hit hard and still hasnt regrouped and the fighters are yet to arrive!!!!

vivek_ahuja
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Postby vivek_ahuja » 13 Apr 2007 22:35

May I just point you towards one aspect that everyone seems to be neglecting?

At the start of each scenario where i mention the location of the scene, I also mention the time when it is occurring and the day.
Forget the day, since its the same day, but look at the time please.

The entire set of last ten scenarios happened within a span of half an hour from the jaguar strike to the bomber engagement. The jaguars have not even landed back at base!! it was coincidence that the Chinese bombers arrive at a time when the CAC initiated its own attacks in the region.

Remember, the war so far was in he northeast so as the CAC wanted the diversion in this region so did the Chinese...both bungled into each other. That’s why you have a B-707 flying ECM and EW against the Chinese for the jaguars and them alone...it was never planned to intercept the bombers with situational awareness provided by this aircraft.

The same holds for the Chinese. They don't have bases in the region. When the jaguars struck, the SU-27s had to be dispatched from far away bases to provide air superiority. The Chinese AWACS is still on the way, but the bombers had left long before and were already in the same region when jaguars struck.

Now, you can argue that that the bombers could have aborted. True. But they had expected only jaguars to be in the region. No reason for them to expect fighters flying around! Moreover, the B-707 was jamming communications thus delaying decision coordination.

Like I said, figure in the time factors and human responses and not just the technical stuff...

The whole idea of doing jamming is to hinder the enemy's decision-making ability. if they could still coordinate everything as they would normally do, what would be the point of jamming and EW?

Further, as Rahul said, the missiles are radar directed and high 'g ' maneuverable. How do you think the Chinese pilots would evade them in TU-16 clones, lacking speed and agility? Their aircraft are not penetration bombers but standoff launchers.

So they evade by dispersing themselves everywhere and forcing the mirages to disperse as well. They have still managed to launch considerable missiles at Bareilly AFB, and nine of them are still flying. I don’t think that’s a lopsided victory by any standard.

In any case, like I said before, factor in the time of action that I mention along with each post and you might find the argument and the scenario more convincing.

Vivek

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Postby nits » 13 Apr 2007 22:48

Hi Vivek...

Valid points... Wht happens is we read this half an hour scenario in posts which is divided in 2 - 3 days so may be because of that Hari forgot the time factor... :lol:

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Postby PaulJI » 13 Apr 2007 23:50

nits wrote:Hi Vivek...

Valid points... Wht happens is we read this half an hour scenario in posts which is divided in 2 - 3 days so may be because of that Hari forgot the time factor... :lol:


Yes, the time is significant, & I confess I'd missed just how short a period has been covered. Mea culpa. I must adjust my opinion accordingly.

But a single B707 can't jam everything: it just doesn't have the power. Also, there are systems not susceptible to jamming, e.g. telephone land lines.

By now, the Chinese are, at the very least, searching for it. They'll have some idea of where the jamming is coming from, & there's a good chance fighters will be in the air, if not in that area, heading towards it. They'll be finding ways to communicate using systems which are not being jammed, or are degraded but still usable.

BTW, does anyone know what, if any, Chinese weapons are capable of "home on jam"?

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Postby samuel » 14 Apr 2007 07:15

Hi Vivek

The evolving scenario is too fantastic.
The CAC setup a diversion...
The Chinese decided for a massive "decapitation" strike.
Both started independently.
Getting a standoff munition to punch through Delhi seems reasonable.
Arming their H6s with 2 LACMs each is somewhat confusing especially when they have capacity for 6.

- So the logic here is that this is a long-range mission and therefore they cannot go with 6? No mid air refueling for these platforms?

- The DH-10s were demonstrated a while ago (it appears circa 2004), but these weren't used because they were configured for nuke delivery...

But isn't the worst case threat we must game for the DH10, launched from deep inside China with a short flight of these H6s, and the DH-10 was configured with normal payload?

What do we do to deal with that threat?

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2 or 6 LACMS?

Postby SGupta » 14 Apr 2007 08:50

samuel wrote:Arming their H6s with 2 LACMs each is somewhat confusing especially when they have capacity for 6.

- So the logic here is that this is a long-range mission and therefore they cannot go with 6? No mid air refueling for these platforms?



Just wondering about the 6 LACM's seems like 2 is correct ..... the following a snippet on the H-6 from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_H-6

"New production began in the 1990s as well, with Xian building the "H-6G", which is a director for ground-launched cruise missiles; the "H-6H", which carries two land-attack cruise missiles; and now the "H-6M" cruise missile carrier, which has four pylons for improved cruise missiles and is fitted with a terrain-following system. Apparently these variants have no internal bomb capability, and most or all of their defensive armament has been deleted.

Xian H-6H - Missile-bomber version developed in late 1990s, armed with two KD-63 land-attack cruise missile (LACM). First successful test in 2002, possibly entered service in 2004-2005.

Xian H-6M - Stand-off missile carrier version. No internal bomb bay (claimed to have saved/reduced 400kg in weight), designed to carry up to 4 YJ-83 (C-803) anti-ship cruise missile or an air-launched variant of the YJ-62 (C-602) long range, anti-ship cruise missile. Said to be equipped with terrain following radar for low-altitude flight. Production of this variant is believed to have resumed in early 2006."


Regards,
Sanjay

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Entertaining scenarios

Postby SGupta » 14 Apr 2007 09:00

Vivek,

I enjoy reading them. Makes a nice distraction between my other pursuits. Keep it up.

Cheers,
Sanjay

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Re: 2 or 6 LACMS?

Postby samuel » 14 Apr 2007 09:33

Hi SGupta,

That's what I had thought too, until I came across some information posted earlier on this thread:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 430#337430

I am not sure that SinoDefence is authoritative, propaganda perhaps?

So either there are 6 LACMs of KD-63 type mountable or there are unknown number of DH-10s mountable. In the former case the threat is subject to the much larger endurance issues, and in the latter the threat is substantial given range advantages but subject to availability issues.

Both these seem a little contrived in the sense that the worse case evolution here would be launching DH-10s from the interior and that is perhaps what we game for?

But, i am merely an arm-chair poker-upper here. Vivek is doing a fantastic job of course!


SGupta wrote:
samuel wrote:Arming their H6s with 2 LACMs each is somewhat confusing especially when they have capacity for 6.

- So the logic here is that this is a long-range mission and therefore they cannot go with 6? No mid air refueling for these platforms?



Just wondering about the 6 LACM's seems like 2 is correct ..... the following a snippet on the H-6 from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_H-6

"New production began in the 1990s as well, with Xian building the "H-6G", which is a director for ground-launched cruise missiles; the "H-6H", which carries two land-attack cruise missiles; and now the "H-6M" cruise missile carrier, which has four pylons for improved cruise missiles and is fitted with a terrain-following system. Apparently these variants have no internal bomb capability, and most or all of their defensive armament has been deleted.

Xian H-6H - Missile-bomber version developed in late 1990s, armed with two KD-63 land-attack cruise missile (LACM). First successful test in 2002, possibly entered service in 2004-2005.

Xian H-6M - Stand-off missile carrier version. No internal bomb bay (claimed to have saved/reduced 400kg in weight), designed to carry up to 4 YJ-83 (C-803) anti-ship cruise missile or an air-launched variant of the YJ-62 (C-602) long range, anti-ship cruise missile. Said to be equipped with terrain following radar for low-altitude flight. Production of this variant is believed to have resumed in early 2006."


Regards,
Sanjay

SGupta
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Re: 2 or 6 LACMS?

Postby SGupta » 14 Apr 2007 20:54

samuel wrote:Hi SGupta,

That's what I had thought too, until I came across some information posted earlier on this thread:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 430#337430

I am not sure that SinoDefence is authoritative, propaganda perhaps?

So either there are 6 LACMs of KD-63 type mountable or there are unknown number of DH-10s mountable. In the former case the threat is subject to the much larger endurance issues, and in the latter the threat is substantial given range advantages but subject to availability issues.


Hello Samuel,

I see where you got the 6 LACM's from. It would be the H6K that we would be looking for based on the Wikipedia article.

Regardless, we have 9 inbound LACM's and that is the immediate concern. :evil:

Regards,
Sanjay

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 14 Apr 2007 22:34

BAREILLY AIRBASE
NORTHERN INDIA
1550 HRS THURSDAY


The pilots and the WSOs were running towards their aircrafts parked on the operational readiness platform as soon as the scramble order had been given seconds ago. The base was under attack, and these four SU-30MKIs were the only ones on the ground at the moment, having just returned from a CAP mission over Sikkim. They had not yet been refuelled and the pilots had just come out of the cockpit after several hours of flight. They had not even walked back to their readiness room for some rest when the klaxons had started blaring all around the airfield. Ground crewmen were running around, trying to get everything of value under cover and then to get back to safety. The pilots and WSOs reached the aircrafts and started strapping themselves in even as the refuelling and rearming trucks drove away from the aircrafts without getting a chance for refuelling them. There simply was no time. The aircrafts had fuel to get into the air, where an IL-78 tanker aircraft would be diverted on emergency footing to fill up the fuel tanks of these aircrafts. The only priority right now was getting into the air.

The engines started rolling when the ATC informed that airborne control was being shifted to VICTOR-THREE and that they were shutting down operations. The ATC crew then evacuated the towers and moved to the air raid shelters even as the first SU-30MKI started rolling towards the runway quickly followed by the remaining three aircrafts. The four aircrafts were soon in a line heading along the Taxi track towards the main runway. The stipulated time between takeoffs were dispensed with as the lead aircraft lighted the afterburners and was joined by the second aircraft and these two rolled down the runway and lifted into the air.

They were joined by the remaining two aircrafts within seconds and the formation of four headed southwest towards the nearest tanker aircraft flying and away from the inbound missiles to give the BDZ weapons a clear zone of fire. The IL-78 that had been supporting PIVOT-STRIKE and PIVOT-HAMMER Jaguar formations was diverted to refuel these four SU-30MKIs, and halfway to it the low fuel level started worrying the pilots. They would make it, but only just. It was more than what they could say for the ground crews sitting in their shelters at Bareilly, waiting for the missiles to strike.

The missiles came over the horizon of the Shivalik range a minute later and were detected by the BDZ close range radars. There were distinct disadvantages for the Indian defenders this time around as compared to the morning Chinese strike on the Indian radars in the hills of Nagaland. There the Spyder systems and the radars they were protecting were at an altitude, and looking down into a plain area, and so had sufficient warning of the inbound missile trajectories. Here it was the reverse. The base was in the foothills of the Shivalik mountain range, and thus blinded by this wall. The missiles had simply popped over the hills towards the base. Fortunately for the defenders, the Nepalese radars had detected their launch on radars and this had allowed PIVOT-CALLER to flash a warning to the base via the CAC that missiles were inbound, so at least they were looking for them and waiting. But it wasn’t enough.

Furthermore, the morning strike was from a single thin arc of the overall bearing. That had allowed the missile systems to engage in quick succession. Here, the Chinese bombers had been dispersed while launching, so the inbound missiles were coming from a larger arc of the bearing, thus forcing the Spyder missile systems to change launch bearings after each launch. All that took time, and combined with the geographic disadvantage, they didn’t have much of it. Certainly not enough for engaging all of the eighteen missiles. Even now it was clear to everybody that some missiles would get through. It was now a race to see how many.

The first Spyder system engaged within half a minute of radar acquisition as the missile came in range. A massive dust cloud was raised around the launcher and from that cloud came out the missile rapidly gaining speed and trailing a finger of smoke behind it as it headed skywards. It then turned down to engage the KD-63 that was moving lower than it was and reached close enough for a detonation. The explosion of the intercepting missile sent a massive fireball all around and it consumed the cruise missile. The KD-63 came out of the ball of fire still relatively intact, much to the shock of the ground crews watching the event on the radar screens. Then the missile veered off course and smashed into the ground causing a massive explosion whose noise was enough to cause the people at the base to look up, even though the fireball was too far away to be seen. That was the first missile to go down. Then things started moving quickly.

Two more launchers now released a couple of missiles from the base when the cruise missiles were roughly fifteen kilometres out. The first launcher had to now realign their bearings for the second intercept, something that they wished they could have done without. The second missile secured a hit, and this time the fireball and the shockwave that uprooted trees all around was visible on the horizon, but the third missile missed and detonated behind the inbound cruise missile. By the time three more launches were attempted, the interception failure rate had increased to almost a third. Out of the third volley, only one hit, and the others lost the interception. By the time the fourth set of launches were attempted the missiles were now in extreme range of visual acquisition. This was a problem now. As the missiles came closer, they were rapidly closing to the minimum engagement range of the Spyder system for its engagement profile of cruise missiles. Soon the missiles would reach a stage where even if the missiles were launched, they could pop out of their canisters, leap into the air, but by the time they began their ‘pop down’ manoeuvre, they would have bypassed the inbound cruise missiles. It was in this range that the radar directed Anti-Aircraft Artillery around the base opened fire, and small black explosions now surrounded the incoming dark specks against the blue sky. It would not matter. The missiles hit the base before any result could be achieved by this gunfire.

The Chinese had armed their cruise missiles with a variety of warheads, mostly reflecting the nature of their original mission. The first KD-63 exploded above the main tarmac from where the four Su-30s had scrambled minutes ago. The warhead was a fuel-air explosive type, and the massive shockwave of that explosion was enough to destroy the entire weak infrastructure on the base and left most of the above ground buildings on fire. The second missile hit the already burning ATC and the massive explosion obliterated the structure from the plinth level upwards in a massive fireball. Another missile hit the base ILS facility near the runway and consumed it in the dust and smoke cloud. The main trailer was sent flying into the air, falling hundreds of meters away by the sheer force of the explosion. Then the remaining missiles hit in quick succession, and the huge thunderclaps echoed around the airbase.

By the time the final missile hit the runway and sending concrete flying in all directions, dust clouds and black pillars of smoke had consumed the base. And the only thing that could be made out amidst all that was the huge flames reaching for the sky. The base was surprisingly quiet, with the only noise being that of the raging fires or of some collapsing hanger structure. The people who should have been trying to contain the fires were nowhere to be seen. The fire fighting vehicles were nowhere to be seen, except for a single vehicle that was lying upside down with some dead firemen nearby. The base fire station had been hit. The radar directed gun battery site was now one massive pillar of smoke, and the one SU-30MKI that had been on the ground was now lying on the ground, its undercarriage collapsed, and cockpit and mid fuselage shattered with concrete of the roof of the HAS that had also taken a direct hit. The radars were gone and so were the base communications.

All contact between the base and CAC headquarters was lost and was not restored. It was then that helicopters from nearby airbases were dispatched to head for Bareilly AFB. However, the first helicopter to arrive at the base was a Dhruv ALH from the nearby army aviation unit, and it landed on a small grass clearing near the tarmac, sending the dust flying in all directions as the army officers scrambled from it. They were met by some of the IAF officers from the Base Operations facility, which was underground and had survived, although their topside communications had been destroyed. These officers told the army personnel what would be required to begin recovery operations.

The helicopter then lifted off and went around the base to look around, but the massive dust and smoke made this hazardous and instead it returned back to its base to fetch more personnel. The Army team was being led by a Major who would coordinate operations until a Group Captain from the IAF, who was at the moment on board a Mi-17 helicopter, could take over control. Several local civilian and army units had been contacted and were dispatching fire fighting equipment, ambulances, vehicles and soldiers to the base. The initial army team had brought with them the radio and communications equipment which they began setting up. These would allow them to coordinate the massive recovery missions that would be needed to return the base to operational status. But at the moment, as far as CAC operations were concerned, IAF Bareilly had ceased to exist.


THE TIBETAN MOUNTAINS
SOUTH OF RAKAS LAKE
1552 HRS THURSDAY


While the people at Bareilly were facing severe conditions, the Mirages flying over Tibet were facing their own problems. PEGASUS flight had dispersed to try and find the bombers but their luck was out. The bombers were visible to them but they were out of missiles, and had little fuel to go tail chasing with them. There was one barely within limits that the flight commander chose to engage whilst simultaneously calling for the Mirages to reassemble for the flight south. The Mirage came up behind the now northbound bomber and let loose several bursts of gunfire. The lighted tracer among those bursts illuminating the bullets trajectory for him to try and realign as the bomber turned erratically to try and evade. The first two bursts of gunfire barely clipped the bomber and it started trailing smoke from the port wing, but as the commander started aligning himself for another shot, the fuel started reaching dangerously low levels. He had now about enough fuel to cross the border and mate up with one of the tankers. There was no choice. He abandoned the final bomber and pulled his aircraft towards the south.

The four mirages were now west of Gurla Mandhata peak and heading southwest towards the Indian border, marked by the white peaked hills around Nanda Devi that were now visible. All four aircraft were scattered, out of missiles, low on fuel, and the pilots were exhausted after forty minutes of continuous combat…but they had done the job. Eight Chinese bombers were on their way home, with one trailing smoke, but they had aborted their attack on Delhi, and that was all that mattered. The strike on Bareilly was on a military facility, and it could be repaired. The one on Delhi had not been.

The four Mirage-2000s now had little fuel to waste on forming up and so they crossed the peaks around Nanda Devi, scattered and individually, with little cockpit chatter. Now the fuel was getting dangerously low for all of them, and their original tanker had been diverted to fuel the scrambled Sukhois from Bareilly. As a result, a second ‘Battle Cry’ IL-78 that had been scrambled from Agra some time back was now meeting up with them over ‘Jolly Grant’ airfield in the foothills of the Himalayas and would remain on station after refuelling the four aircraft to support the four SU-30MKIs that were now heading north to take over the escort mission for PIVOT-CALLER.

PIVOT-CALLER itself would remain on station, having fuel for some more time, and this time it would be protected by these Sukhois. Another eight SU-30MKIs were being scrambled to head north. Either side would not make the same mistake again. The first Chinese SU-27s were now just about to reach the region and were currently over the Kailas mountain range, and about to bypass the northbound force of eight of their H-6s. A Chinese Y-8 AWACS aircraft was behind the SU-27s and would need a little more time to catch up.

As the ARC B-707 detected more aircraft, the pilots decided to move further south for safety. With that the disruption period of Chinese communications and radars was over, and the electronic threat warning picture lit up all across the board immediately. The Chinese were now looking for the Indian standoff EW aircraft, and after repeated discussions with CAC commanders, it was decided that the threat to PIVOT-CALLER was simply too high. The B-707 was told to cross back into India immediately, and soon after receiving the orders, the aircraft turned ever so gently and moved south, thus bringing to a close operation PIVOT-STRIKE and the Chinese bomber hunt. The four SU-30MKIs on the ambush mission over Nepal were told to head south to the foothills and wait there.

Their job was not yet over, and would follow close on the heels of another CAC operation, now named: PIVOT-HAMMER.

ksmahesh
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Postby ksmahesh » 14 Apr 2007 23:41

Absolutely fantastic vivek...........
Loss of Airbase was sad :cry: but pehaps we shall recover what is more frustrating is escape of 8 bombers. I have a small question as to what would happen if chini sent large armada of cruise missiles against our anti aircraft NE bases followed a huge formation of fighter aircraft to gain airspace control which inturn followed by a massive mix of fighters and bombers to obiliterate everything moving and indian.
How will we escape from such possibility.

anyway please keep up the good work

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Postby skaranam » 15 Apr 2007 12:52

Vivek:

Keeping it fast paced and exciting. I like it.

What role do chinese satellites have here? Any chance to see some Anti Satellite action here?

Karanam/-

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welcome

Postby niran » 15 Apr 2007 15:46

please gentlemen gentle ladies welcome me. this is my first post. I have been reading thread since eons ago. my doubt is about Su27 of chinni air force. last me heard they were exclusively based around twain strait. how come they are escorting their mates into Indian airspace.

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Postby Hari Sud » 15 Apr 2007 18:05

Vivek

Stay out of discussion and explaining your previous post.

Stick with your own thinking process and continue with the next post.

There will be others in the BR community who will know enough to answere the questions.

Continue

Good Luck


Hari Sud

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Postby Sudhanshu » 16 Apr 2007 10:30

Sometimes questions are lame or unnecessary. I accept, sometimes I too ask.

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Postby ksmahesh » 16 Apr 2007 14:40

I agree my question was too vague. So donot bother answering it. I am only hoping that something of that sort happens in future scenarios ...........

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 16 Apr 2007 21:49

ARUNACHAL PRADESH
FOOTHILLS OF THE HIMALAYAS
1630 HRS THURSDAY


The border with Tibet was now to be guarded properly, and further aircraft from the WAC were being earmarked for transfer to the CAC. There was to be no let up in operations, but no one at Air headquarters could now deny that the war could be contained to the EAC. It had now spilled over into total war. While the air force CAC and EAC were waging an all-out air campaign over Tibet and the NE, the army was about to begin its own air operations over the Tibetan mountains and the Himalayas. While the Leh based XIV Corps staff was waiting for its orders, IV Corps was already launching operations. In the hilly terrain north of Bomdila, a flat strip of land had been carved out months earlier. The strip was rectangular and barely sufficient for the job at hand. Even so, under the now setting sun, which was creating long shadows in the valleys, two Searcher-II UAVs was being given a final inspection by the army aviation ground crew. They wanted to be sure that their mounts for the air surveillance missions over the border were functioning properly. Takeoff was scheduled in another ten minutes…

The army had been watching the brutal air war over Tibet since morning, and had concluded by the afternoon that it could not be controlled. The Chinese had responded to the IAF operations with a heavy hand, and Delhi had barely been saved. There were now more Chinese fighters over Tibet than the IAF could handle, and despite the denials of the CAC commanders, the IAF had shifted to the defensive for the moment. The situation now developing was what the army commanders had feared. The Indian air force was very heavily involved in its fight for survival and the country’s airspace defence that there were little assets for supporting the army. There were just too many Chinese aircrafts for the IAF to handle and still make a difference for the army’s operations. It was time to take matters into their own hands, and that’s what the Army Aviation units were raised for.

The army’s requirement from the air force had always been surveillance of enemy positions. However, since this morning’s incidents, there were little assets other than satellites that could be diverted to the army’s use, and satellites only made one pass over an area before disappearing over the horizon and by the time they returned, the enemy was gone. It had always been like this. You could track the status of fixed targets like airfields, command centres and even general corps level movements, but tactical movements were difficult to track and easy to conceal by the enemy. That’s where UAVs came in. They could loiter over an area for hours at a time, tracking the smallest of enemy movements and provide real time tactical battlefield information on the enemy. That was more useful to IV Corps at the moment, because it was clear that some sort of ground action was about to happen here.

Since this morning IV Corps staff officers had been receiving information from the DIA that enemy forces were moving into positions near the border north of Tawang, but that they didn’t know the exact composition of the units. The army instead had attempted several missions using Herons from Tezpur but Chinese units were always well concealed or froze their operations as soon as the Herons started looking down. The army was sure that these UAVs were not being detected, since they were being flown in the shady detection zones of the Chinese radars at the border, but the Chinese still knew about their presence. One theory was that the Chinese were using satellites to monitor the operations at the Tezpur UAV base, and to prove or disprove that theory four Searcher-II aircraft had been dispatched under all secrecy to a highly secret landing field north of Bomdila. Now, the first set of two operations were about to begin as darkness fell so that the Chinese observation posts at the border could be relatively blinded by the darkness to avoid visual acquisition of the aircraft.

One aircraft was earmarked for each mission. The first mission would take the first searcher, call sign TACIT-BLUE, towards the west, into Bhutan, and then north from there to check the Himalayan passes for enemy presence and hence any threat to Bhutan itself. That mission had been requested by the Bhutanese Government and been granted by the Indian Government. The mission results were to be handed over via army high command to the commander of the Indian Military Training Team or IMTRAT, in Bhutan, to be shown to the Bhutanese Sovereign and his army commanders. If a threat did exist, then some action would be required and would have to be executed by the units of XXXIII Corps whose units were now waiting south of the Bhutanese border at their jump-off points. This was a very critical mission, but less sensitive because the Searcher wouldn’t exactly have to cross the border to get the proper viewing angle.

This wasn’t the case for TACIT-RED, the second searcher-II, who would have no proper oblique viewing angles while looking into China from north of Tawang, thanks to the truly massive peaks of the region, part of what is known as the Great Himalayas. The peaks of this region rose to altitudes above 23000 feet, and the rocks had never ever been without snow. The region was permanently below snow, and beyond it were the Chinese armed forces. Of course, the Chinese would have to move via some known and predictable passes to get the border with India, but that would be the ‘too late’ time, when little preventive action could be taken. If the Indian army was to stop the Chinese land assault in these hills, they had to know what was behind the Great Himalayas right now. That meant that TACIT-RED would have to cross the border and loop behind these mountains from the west, near to the Bhutan-India-China border junction, into the heavily defended Chinese airspace. And that meant that the TACIT-RED mission commander was going to be having an exciting night.

Proper groundwork had been done, of course. The Chinese radars had been located via satellite and IAF ECM aircrafts as well as ARC clandestine missions over the years. The maximum ranges, altitudes, power and line of sight of these radars had been found. A flight-path between the so-called ‘Shady’ detection zones had been programmed into the flight control system and maps. One great relief for the Indian planners was that if things did indeed go wrong and the aircraft was detected and destroyed, there was no one sitting inside them, and that got rid of one big conscience problem.

There was another aspect to this mission that was as secretive as the flight itself. The planners knew all along that the mission would involve hiccups. The major one being a Chinese long-range radar system mounted on the western slope of peak 5282, and was situated at a high position on the massive 17000 feet peak. It could not be avoided and it would pick up the Searcher-II as soon as it moved northwards from Tawang. That radar was at so high an altitude that it was inside the permanent snow region of that slope. It had been taken up there piece by piece over the years and had since become the bane of Indian helicopter pilots flying sorties to Tawang, and who had nicknamed this powerful radar ‘Red-eye’, in accordance with the allegiance and job of the radar station.

The radar itself was built along western lines, and housed inside a big white dome on top of a concrete base to protect it from the high, winds and the cold air at that altitude. This was a permanent Chinese facility since the last few months and had the power and range to look deep inside India, most of whose territory was below the 5000 feet altitude of the radar site. It was for this reason that the Indian AWCAS aircraft had been forced to fly south, over Assam, and not further north, since the last few days. It had caused a problem to the IAF before, and it was causing a problem now. It had to be taken out.

The solution to this problem was a thing of beauty. ‘Red-eye’ was within fifteen kilometres of the Indian border, but afforded no direct line of sight for attack. But it was also within forty kilometres of another peak inside Bhutan that was at an altitude of 16000 feet, called peak 4893. There a direct electronic line of sight existed to the Chinese radar, because no other peaks were in the way, and Bhutan was allied with India since this morning. As a result, in the afternoon, at a Bhutanese army Helipad near Dzong had landed an Indian Mi-17 helicopter carrying two highly palletised cargo containers and some other attachment gear. Two Bhutanese army trucks had been requisitioned by the IMTRAT, and the palletised cargo had been loaded inside the two trucks and sent north-east towards Tarphe and from there to a location on some flat ground on the northern slope of hill-4893.

The Palletised containers had been opened and then fixed onto their mechanical mount which in turn was fixed on the flatbed rear of one of the trucks. After some testing it was again covered with camouflage netting and tarpaulin and the disposable material had been cleared off. The IMTRAT officers and soldiers, along with their Bhutanese comrades had then moved to set up their comm.-gear and the overall commander, a Lieutenant Colonel, had contacted the IMTRAT headquarters to let them know that the TACIT-PATHFINDER team was ready. From this altitude the dozen Indian soldiers and the two Bhutanese Liason officers could actually see the ‘Red-eye-mountain’ and were trying to use heir high power optical scopes to see what their eyes could not, but their two ‘Hunter-birds’, as they referred to their weapons, could.

Back in Arunachal Pradesh, the UAV base north of Bomdila was under hectic activity. The TACIT-BLUE Searcher-II had its engine running at the end of the runway and was making a slight buzzing noise in the high cold winds blowing around the field. The airbase itself was one big rectangular patch of land. At one end of this field were the UAVs, hidden under Camouflage nettings. At the other corner were the several mission control trailers of aircraft and several trucks for logistics and supplies were parked all around.

The first Searcher lifted off the ground gently into the wind and headed west, and the commander watched the aircraft lift off before walking back into the trailer and closing the door behind him. The other mission commander was still waiting as the second Searcher came from under the netting hanger and turned smartly towards the end of the runway before facing the wind and then stopped. The engine was brought up to full power and soon it also lifted off the ground and this time the aircraft went north by northwest, before disappearing over the hills surrounding the base. As soon as the noise drowned out, the mission commander for TACIT-RED moved into his command trailer, closed the door behind him and picked up the phone to inform IV Corps HQ that the mission was on.

That’s when another call went out via encrypted SATCOM data links directly to the IMTRAT headquarters as well as the TACIT-PATHFINDER team in northeastern Bhutan.

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Postby Hari Sud » 17 Apr 2007 02:45

I withdraw. It is my mistake. I did not read about the fate of remaining bombers. That in itself is a victory for IAF.



Hari Sud
Last edited by Hari Sud on 17 Apr 2007 19:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Rahul M » 17 Apr 2007 09:42

Hari, plz read the scenario before making "premature" comments .

where the hell do you get 12(or 16) bombers from ??

there were 9 remaining which fired their 18 LACM's @ bareilley.
the rest had been destroyed !!

for God's sake if you don't like the scenario/can't understand (it's too complex for you) /any other reason DON'T read it !

but plz do not irritate us with irrelevant comments. :evil:

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Their job was not yet over, and would follow close on the h

Postby niran » 17 Apr 2007 09:51

Dear Mr. vivek
you are letting another 9 chinni bomber go away, and remember those Su27s
and a chinni awac. Me thinks you are losing the opportunity for a juicy air battle. with Chinese Sus designated as su 35mkk which is comparable to
the mki of IAF. Air battle between two equals would be more interesting.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 17 Apr 2007 10:16

Rahul M wrote:Hari, plz read the scenario before making "premature" comments .

where the hell do you get 12(or 16) bombers from ??

there were 9 remaining which fired their 18 LACM's @ bareilley.
the rest had been destroyed !!

for God's sake if you don't like the scenario/can't understand (it's too complex for you) /any other reason DON'T read it !

but plz do not irritate us with irrelevant comments. :evil:


That might offend someone... we don't want any conflict of interests at least in this thread.

You both might want to edit your posts.
Thanks

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Postby Denis » 17 Apr 2007 13:39

Vivek

The scenario you just posted above is a bit too premature.
First you have to finish with the 12 (or 16) Chinese bombers still in the air. Some have managed to destroy surface defences at Barreilley. Others may be heading towards Delhi or other places.

I believe that without dealing with the remaining bombers, any other discussions is not worth the time.
Continue......

Hari Sud


Hi Hari
    There are No 12 / 16 bomber left. Only 8 remain.
    Having exhausted their weapon load, they are returning back to their base. They no longer pose any threat to Delhi / whatsoever

It is true that SU 27 are heading this way along with their AEW aircraft but so are the MKIs and it would be an intreresting read for us. However Vivek as the author should have all the freedom in the world to take us to different theatres of War as it is a complete war scenario he is painting not a battle scenario.

A request to admins to please delete all comments posts including mine as they take one off from the smooth flow of narration.

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Postby saty » 17 Apr 2007 13:40

Vivek is doing a great job, guys please dont distract him with trivia. If any one has any thing of merit on military discussion front; please post otherwise don't ghost write his story for him.

Hai Sud especially is swinging between "Vivek dont listen to others" to "Vivek listen to me on this" extreme.

Hari, you are a major distraction and I hope you appreciate that you are causing some of us grief and will consider your posts appropriately.

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Postby ksmahesh » 17 Apr 2007 16:12

Cool down friends. This sort of flame war may provoke Admins to junk the thread :roll:. So cool down ..... Vivek is doing extraordinary job and lets just enjoy our daily shot of action.

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Postby saty » 17 Apr 2007 16:16

ksmahesh wrote:Cool down friends. This sort of flame war may provoke Admins to junk the thread :roll:.


You still seem to be burned by the aborted thread on narratives :)

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Postby ksmahesh » 17 Apr 2007 16:36

I am HIGHLY skeptical of the timing of ADMIN's good sense :wink: . Still tired of recent tirade...... The truth has dawned on me "ADMINS are Maibaap on this forum (as everywhere)" :twisted: unt becowz of yaddictiion I bhould not like to misss thish DHAGA. :) (translated in pinglish onlee. boor kwality is due to kafir's limited Knowledge (pronounced with Kapitul 'K'))

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Postby Hari Sud » 17 Apr 2007 19:36

My error duly apologize.

Can somebody point me to the post where it is said that Chinese bombers are turning back.

Hari

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Postby ksmahesh » 17 Apr 2007 21:18

vivek_ahuja wrote:The aircrafts themselves were the ‘H’ variant of the venerable bomber, and were at the moment carrying only two KD-63 LACMs, one under each wing pylon on either side. …



vivek_ahuja wrote:These were the KD-63 LACMs. There was no stopping them now, and even though all nine remaining bombers might be claimed by the Mirages, the missiles were on their way. Nine H-6s had managed to launch a total eighteen missiles towards Bareilly,.............................


vivek_ahuja wrote:Eight Chinese bombers were on their way home, with one trailing smoke, but they had aborted their attack on Delhi, and that was all that mattered. The strike on Bareilly was on a military facility, and it could be repaired. The one on Delhi had not been.


Once chinis have fired all missiles (:twisted:) they had, naturally they would like to run the hell out of Indian counter punch. They cannot loiter over Indian border to let us have live fire practice. :lol:

Aphter all chini be-rather have learned the butiful trick of putting tail betwheen legs bephore escaping kafir air force, from their "phaithphul all weather chamcha" Al-musharat-ul-Khotta. :wink:
Last edited by ksmahesh on 17 Apr 2007 22:52, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Hari Sud » 17 Apr 2007 21:47

ksmahesh

Thank you.

It is difficult to read the outcome of a major air battle in a little sentence, which you quoted.

In fact it is a major IAF victory and a major Chinese defeat. It is to be stated like that. That is where the author should have elaborated.

If I were Vievek, writing the next post, I will dwell more on the consequences of Chinese setback in the Chinese military & political structure. After all, it was Chinese premier, who insisted on Delhi as a target.

Thank you again

Hari Sud

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Postby Rahul M » 17 Apr 2007 22:26

Hari,

I apologise for my earlier somewhat rude post. I'm ready to delete it for the sake of the thread, provided you follow suit.

btw,
In fact it is a major IAF victory and a major Chinese defeat.


I disagree whole heartedly ! while the PLAAF has failed in achieving a political objective it has actually achieved a vital dacapacitation of CAC hitting power.


If I were Vievek, writing the next post, I will dwell more on the consequences of Chinese setback in the Chinese military & political structure. After all, it was Chinese premier, who insisted on Delhi as a target.


while attacking the enemies National Capital has its merits in terms of geo-politics, it is by no means very sound military strategy. the Chinese premier had his own reasons for giving the orders, does not nescessarily mean that that was the only possible (or the best possible) tactics for the chinese .

in this regard I would like you guys to remember the tidings of the battle of britain. the RAF got breathing space to regroup and repair when a political decesion was made (by hitler) to bomb london, instead of the RAF bases. that became the turning point of the air war.

therefore, altho' they lost a few bombers the final action may have been a blessing in disguise for the chinkis !! :wink:

the war isn't over yet !!

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 17 Apr 2007 23:14

THE TACIT-PATHFINDER TEAM
PEAK 4893, THE GREAT HIMALAYAS
NORTHEASTERN BHUTAN
1645 HRS THURSDAY


Four IMTRAT soldiers were busy removing the white camouflage netting over the Bhutanese army trucks while another three, led by a young Lieutenant, were busy setting up the remote launching unit, a dozen or so meters away from the flatbed truck launcher. The distance should have been more, but at this slope this was all they had. Beyond this was a big precipice, and on the other side was a massive vertical rock face. At this small physical separation, if there were to be some malfunction, and an associated sympathetic explosion, they would all be killed. But the built-in testing circuits inside the ‘Hunter Birds’ were confirming that the system was working fine. Even under such harsh environmental conditions.

Soon the flat bed truck was in the open, and the driver aligned the vehicle in a direction perpendicular to what the proposed direction of launch would be. Then the launcher itself was rotated about its mounting on the launcher via the remote launch control, and the direction set roughly towards ‘Red-eye mountain’. The proper azimuth was set via the remote control and then the zenith as the launcher moved to the proper vertical angle about its launcher pivot. The whole process took about ten minutes. The two hunter drones were now ready for launch.

A young lieutenant of the Indian army kept a small tripod on the ground and mounted a small rod like structure on it that opened up into a small circular-netted-dish receiver array the moment his hand was lifted from it and pointed upwards. He connected a few cables to the receiver from his communications set and picked up the phone like talker-receiver set and tuned in the proper settings before giving it to his CO, the IMTRAT Lieutenant Colonel. The colonel took it from him and ordered the lieutenant to contact the IMTRAT Command Centre in Bhutan, which was his the next higher step in his chain of command that was eventually to end at the GOC, IV Corps. The set-up of contact took a couple of seconds after which the Colonel spoke into the receiver.

“This is TACIT-PATHFINDER One. We are in location and ready to execute. Waiting for launch command. Over.â€

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 18 Apr 2007 18:47

THE SEARCHER-II UAV, ‘TACIT-RED’
NORTHWEST OF THE CHINESE ‘RED-EYE’ FACILITY
CHINA
1700 HRS THURSDAY


The Indian searcher-II UAV was now over the border and heading north from the west slope of peak 5282 that, incidentally, was also where the now disabled Chinese radar facility had been. In fact, as the searcher had passed near the facility, the operators had been treated to some close-ups of the damaged radar dome at the Chinese facility. Counter detection by the Chinese soldiers at the station was minimal since the UAV had passed at the edge of the human visual range and had used its powerful optical scopes to look at the base. The visual data had been passed on to some specialists via data links for the Battle Damage Assessment or BDA, where it would be decided if a second strike would be required to finish off what the first strike missed.

The damage to the dome and the radar inside it looked extensive even to the untrained eye, and the collapsed dome structure on top of the radar receiver array could be made out from a first look itself. On top of that what was left of the array was peppered with holes and exposed to the harsh winds and snow now that the dome over it was gone. Worst of all, the Chinese would have to bring in the repair equipment via airlift or trucks coming on steep gradient roads, which would require them to wait until morning when the sun would come up and the winds would die down. That meant that the ‘Red-Eye’ facility was out of operations for the next twelve hours at a bare minimum. The electronic corridor into china was now open. Of course, the Chinese could do the same to Indian radars as well, as a result of which the only radars working close to the Chinese border were the mobile ones that were kept moving every few hours, and ones that had protection from air-to-air configured Mig-21s from Jorhat.

Now that the Searcher was inside china, the aerial surveillance work began. First up was the surveillance of the roads leading up to the border crossing at Bum-La. This was the location from where Tawang was a mere dozen kilometres away. It was also one of the few passes that were at a somewhat lower altitude than others through the Great Himalayan peaks to the east.

In 1962 the Chinese had attacked in force here, and had captured Tawang and further areas to the south all the way to the region around Bomdila and even further south in other sectors as the Indian IV Corps units reeled and disintegrated under the immense pressure of the Chinese infantry assaults. This time, IV Corps was determined to prepare itself for all possibilities. Tawang was also strategically important. Unlike the month long war in 1962, driven by the infantry and artillery of both sides, this war was going to get over in week, with both sides utilizing everything from missiles, armoured vehicles, artillery, helicopters and aircraft to ensure swift strikes into the enemy rear areas. Infantry would play a role, but mostly as a holding force or as manoeuvring forces on flanking missions via passes that were impassable for vehicles. If one accepted this it was pretty obvious that both sides would look to utilize low altitude passes through the Himalayan ranges to ensure the movement of their armoured forces.

In this sector of the Northeast, the only major low altitude pass was the one through Bum-La, east of peak 5214, and that led to Tawang. Furthermore, Tawang was the terminal junction for the main railway line and road that led to the south via the Nuranang Army camp, then to Bomdila and further south all the way to Tezpur. If a massive vehicle bound force broke through the defences around Tawang, assisted by heavy air strikes and helicopter forces, the PLA could push all the way to the foothills of the Himalayas, continuously pushing the Indian forces into the plains and causing a repeat of the 1962 campaign, albeit in a shortened timeframe. This could not be allowed even if it was merely theoretical. IV Corps had deputed the 5TH Mountain Division (MD), assisted by units of the 21ST Infantry Division and armoured units of 1ST Armoured Division to hold the inevitable Chinese assaults in and around Tawang. The majority of the 21ST was based further to the east, where the assaults would be mostly the classic infantry types as a result of the lack of suitable roads for vehicular movement.

At the moment, a single squadron of T-90s of the 1ST AD was based at Tawang and another three were being transported on flatcars by trains via the main rail-line from Tezpur. This was another possible chokepoint for the Indian forces. Unlike the Chinese who had taken up massive infrastructure modernization over the years and had improved their roads, bridges and deployed railway tracks, the successive Indian governments had taken a lacklustre view on this issue.

At some level the Indian army was to blame as well. Their strategy of not deploying infrastructure in the region to slow an enemy advance reflected the defensive thinking persistent in generals who had seen the debacle of 62 when they were junior level officers. It had taken a new generation of officers and the resurgence in the confidence of the army so that they had started thinking aggressively and started reciprocating the Chinese moves. Unfortunately by this time the Chinese were far ahead, and now the Indian army was going to pay a price for that lack of foresight. At the moment there was only a single rail-line to Tawang and if this got cut off, the 5TH MD and others would be fighting with zero logistics that is the blood of today’s modern high-tech armies.

All of this thinking had seen the planning and execution of the TACIT-RED and TACIT-BLUE missions to determine whether the Chinese were indeed looking at this area of operations with more than a causal interest. The data from the UAVs was being sent directly to the main command centre of the 5TH MD as well as to IV Corps HQ. In both locations the data was expected with wariness and anticipation by the army generals. That would become clear in another minute as the searcher’s optical cameras looked down towards the main Chinese line of advance towards Bum-La.

The view could not have been better, and although the lighting was low, thanks to the time of the day, the meandering road heading south was clearly visible on the screen. And it was empty at the moment. The cameras zoomed to follow the road from the border junction all the way north till the range of its cameras and there was nothing to be seen, except for the abandoned Chinese guard buildings at the border crossing itself. This meant that there were no Chinese forces within thirty kilometres of the border. But that was inconclusive and the mission wasn’t over yet. The Searcher-II now moved further north.

The first activity noted by the operators that wasn’t normal was the presence of Chinese artillery systems at thirty-five kilometres from the border. That should not have been problematic, as each side had stationed these systems close to the border for decades. The problem was that this wasn’t towed type gun artillery. These were several dozen parked self-propelled artillery systems and they were hunkered down for rapid movement, not for deployment, and that wasn’t funny. They were covered with camouflage netting and dozens of tents erected nearby, with the soldiers milling about. At least they showed that they weren’t planning to move anytime soon, although ‘soon’ could mean anything from fifteen minutes to half an hour only. That was the level of time compression that now existed in the modern battlefield.

Now the real PLA deployments came into view, and showed what could only be a Divisional or even an Army level vanguard forming up. Heavy in infantry and soft skinned vehicles. And these were parked a mere kilometre from the road heading to Bum-La. There were several helipads where the Z-10 attack helicopters were parked and a single one was flying northwards. These looked like the Mangusta model of attack helicopters, and that evolution bloodline could not be discounted, seeing the Chinese talent for reverse engineering.

The air activity was now reaching heavy levels and showed large number of heavy helicopters flying around. This was the point where the Searcher was to hold its northward advance and turn to the west to get proper oblique viewing angles. When that manoeuvre was completed, the cameras were again brought into view and that revealed what the Indian army did not want to see. There were dozens of Chinese Type-99 MBTs lined up one behind the other along the main road to Bum-La with hundreds of additional vehicles behind them. There was literally a ten-kilometre line of armoured vehicles lined up one behind the other.

The DIA satellites that had covered this area in the morning showed that the Chinese were moving the armoured units to this region and flying more units from central china via Lhasa. So it wasn’t as if the news was surprising to the Indians. What was new to them was the location where the Chinese had chosen to deploy their vehicles. And it was now clear where the main Chinese line of advance would be. And that called for action.

The TACIT-RED Mission Commander was now ordered to stop the searching and to start fixing the locations of the Chinese deployments in anticipation of air strikes on them. If the Indian army had chokepoints, so did the Chinese. They had filled their roads with vehicles in anticipation for a possible nighttime assault on Indian positions north of Tawang, and the Indian defences were not yet totally ready to handle such an assault. That meant that the Indian army needed to buy some time for it to deploy fully in the field. They had now looked at the cards that the PLA had to play, and were interested in taking full advantage of it.

Minutes after the first set of target listings were downloaded by IV Crops, several 300mm Smerch MLRS vehicles of a battery moved out from their camouflage netting and into the small plain ground that lay before them near Tawang. They came to a halt and then the twelve launch tubes were raised from their lock-down positions and then turned in the horizontal plane until their azimuth was aligned.

The first targets were the Chinese artillery systems laagered to the north of the great Himalayan peaks.

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Postby Hari Sud » 18 Apr 2007 19:15

Masterly scenario building;

Now Smerch is about to go into action. Before that UAV and target drones have been unleashed.

Good work.


Hari Sud

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Postby rsingh » 18 Apr 2007 19:48

vivek_ahuja, Shankar and others.......you guys are stars. One request please....is it possible to stick the area-of-action map at the begning of thread? It will be easier for armchair mullah like me to follow the action and make sense out of it. 8)

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Postby ksmahesh » 18 Apr 2007 21:59

Last edited by ksmahesh on 19 Apr 2007 19:13, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby ripusingh » 18 Apr 2007 21:59

ya a detailed map would be nice, good thinking rsingh

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Postby Malay » 18 Apr 2007 22:02

Dude i agree, post some area images whenever you change the locations in the story! That would be awsome!

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Postby ksmahesh » 18 Apr 2007 22:08

thanx vivek for todays shot of warophine
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Postby ksmahesh » 18 Apr 2007 22:08

Well flends. Vivek isdoing vely kood job. Let shomeone among us shtart poshting maps.
yours tduly,
chini.

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Postby member_8794 » 19 Apr 2007 12:22

Vivek, Why dont we have some true india bashing by the Chinese.
there was only one scenario that too a desperate one where Barielly AFB was bombed.

They also have some very best equipments and people to run them.

We all know that no one will surrender, so ,if i may suggest, lets have something where both sides inflict damage to each other.


Otherwise, great going.


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