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Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part VIII

nits
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Postby nits » 21 May 2007 12:11

Where has everyone disappeared... ? :(

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Postby krishnan » 21 May 2007 12:24

Me hiding under my bunker

nits
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Postby nits » 21 May 2007 17:26

krishnan wrote:Me hiding under my bunker



Is Vivek around.... :wink:

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Postby Sudhanshu » 21 May 2007 17:30

nits wrote:
krishnan wrote:Me hiding under my bunker



Is Vivek around.... :wink:


I don't think so... he might be in the command bunker.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 21 May 2007 20:44

THE ROAD FROM BUM-LA TO TAWANG
NORTH OF TAWANG,
ARUNACHAL PRADESH, INDIA
2201 HRS THURSDAY


A war is fought in the political and military command centres. An operation is fought from the regional military command centres, and a battle is fought from the forward unit level command centres. But out on the battlefield, it is fought from the mind. The survivor is always the one who used his resources in an intelligent manner. On the battlefield, there are no commanders, only leaders. Command responsibility ends as the person walks out of the command bunker or tent to join his troops in the front. From that point on, he is no longer the commander, but a leader. From that point on, his ability to lead his men, exhort them to advance in the face of the enemy and persevere in the face of determined resistance is more important than anything else. The task becomes even more challenging in the face of an overwhelming enemy…

Captain Shukla was leading his force of two T-90s forward on the road to Bum-La. At the moment they were still behind the small hill and moving west to east on the road before it turned northwards around the turning a hundred metres in front of him. After that it was open ground all the way to the north to Bum-La. The Indian artillery shelling on the hills north of Bum-La had stopped only seconds ago. And the cloud of smoke and debris had not even cleared the hills where the Chinese had been coming down south. The Chinese Recon Troops at Bum-La were now exposed, and that was where the two Indian tanks would hit.

As they reached within twenty metres of the turning, all crew in the two tanks could feel the heartbeats within their chest. It became worse when Captain Shukla ordered the turrets to be traversed left at sixty degrees so that the tank’s gunfire could begin as soon as they made that bend on the road in front of them. To the east, about a hundred metres beyond the turn, Major Patel was standing on the rocks outside the main dug in defences of Zero line as he and the all the mountain troops watched the two tanks rumble on the road before heading north. They watched quietly and within seconds the first tank, belonging to Captain Shukla made the turn and was now suddenly in the open and facing Bum-La at fifteen hundred metres and the smoke covered hills at three thousand metres.

The Chinese Recon troops watched in horror as the two Indian tanks came towards them from around that first bend to the south and headed towards them. Then there was a big flash from the lead tank and the first HE round went over their heads and slammed into the first parked recon vehicle a hundred metres behind the dug in Chinese troops in a searing flash of fire and a thunderous noise echoed within the hills. The burning Chinese vehicle fell dozens of metres from where it had been parked trailing a pillar of fire. Then time started again as the two tanks went into rapid-fire mode.


“Good hit gunner! Good Hit. Next target. Machine Gun nest, traverse left.â€

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Postby JCage » 21 May 2007 21:58

Good show, heres something of interest. In the Indian army, as in western ones, theres a process followed between the gunner and commander -- so that part where you mention "uneccessary" words, well they become necessary to avoid confusion. Its something like target, load, aim, fire...and the gunner repeats fire..I forgot the exact words..

Was reading a history of ODS the other day, and they have something similar..eg the Abrams takes a shot, before that the commander calls out the process, and the gunner ends with "on the way"...!

Another interesting thing (i hope) is the fact that the T-90 has a remotely operated MG for the commander to control. A feature which isnt there in several of the leading western tanks, and is being incorporated as part of their upgrades. While it doesnt have fancy TI but iirc operates via the commanders periscopic sight, it is a useful thing for the stuff you depicted.

As a further aside, talking about leadership...the commanders job is the hardest, he has to take his troops into battle, command his own tank, AND manage the comms net directing other units. In the Indian Army for eg, there are gun tanks, and there are command tanks. The latter can have 2 or even more radios, each part of a separate comms network, to keep the tank troop linked up the command chain.

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Postby parshuram » 22 May 2007 11:48

Brilliant absolutely brilliant Vivek wonder JP Dutta read it too and make a movie .... waiting for ur next post !!!!!

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Postby Hari Sud » 22 May 2007 17:16

I agree with parshuram

There is only one word to describle above battle scenario - Brilliant.

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Postby Jagan » 22 May 2007 17:32

JCage wrote:Good show, heres something of interest. In the Indian army, as in western ones, theres a process followed between the gunner and commander -- so that part where you mention "uneccessary" words, well they become necessary to avoid confusion. Its something like target, load, aim, fire...and the gunner repeats fire..I forgot the exact words.. in.


Time to dig up the old episode of the Param Vir Chakra series - the one with Arun Khetarpal. The most accurate tank vs tank battle rendition I have seen in indian media .

I remember the commanders prefered to stand - half of the body above the cuppola, call out the bearing of the gun, target, say something like "On tank, Fire" and then they would duck inside the turret as the gun fired. and then come out to find the next target...

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Postby JCage » 22 May 2007 19:37

[Hint, request] Time to dig it up....And........YOUTUBE it!![/hint, request]

:mrgreen:

As a kid, I managed to get joyrides on various army gear, including T-55s, T-72s..in one, I remember the subedar sahib and his crew demonstrating the sequence...phunnily enough, on another occasion, i think it had been "indigenized"...they were speaking in hindi, i think..

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Postby rsharma » 22 May 2007 20:12

Thats a brilliant battle scenario Vivek! The best & most realistic u 've supplied so far!


As a kid, I managed to get joyrides on various army gear


Quite an enviable childhood! :wink:

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Postby Jagan » 22 May 2007 20:21

JCage wrote:[Hint, request] Time to dig it up....And........YOUTUBE it!![/hint, request]

:mrgreen:

As a kid, I managed to get joyrides on various army gear, including T-55s, T-72s..in one, I remember the subedar sahib and his crew demonstrating the sequence...phunnily enough, on another occasion, i think it had been "indigenized"...they were speaking in hindi, i think..


I wish I could, but they are on VHS tapes that havent been played in over a decade. so might as well have been lost.

You are right about the procedures being hindigenised. all conversation was in hindi - with minimal english.

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Postby negi » 23 May 2007 11:23

hey boss log searched for param vir chakra vids on Youtube but to no avail :oops: ,actually wanted the title song track .

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Postby nits » 25 May 2007 17:36

Vivek - i can understand that you must have other obligations and other importnat stuff... :) but please dont let us wait for so longgggggggg time :cry:

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Postby sum » 25 May 2007 17:44

vivek sure knows how to make each minute seem like a day!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

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Postby saty » 25 May 2007 17:57

sum wrote:vivek sure knows how to make each minute seem like a day!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


Actually it has been four days or what it seems like 4 years.... :cry:

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Postby b_karan » 25 May 2007 18:22

I think he is planning for a major offensive ..... rightly said "Lull before the Storm" :twisted:

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 25 May 2007 18:23

Hey guys

I am so sorry for the delays, but I have been barely getting a few minutes of BR browse time for the last few days due to work obligations. It should clear up soon, but in the meantime I get precious little time to write the scenarios. :cry:

In any case, made some time specially for this today. I am working on it now, :) and will post it today as soon as it gets over.

Thanks for understanding.

Vivek Ahuja

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Postby disha » 25 May 2007 19:43

vivek_ahuja wrote:It should clear up soon, but in the meantime I get precious little time to write the scenarios. :cry:


Is there a way to ban you for *not* posting? :D

Anyways, you have to double your posts to make up for the lost time 8)

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Postby Sudhanshu » 25 May 2007 20:43

disha wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:It should clear up soon, but in the meantime I get precious little time to write the scenarios. :cry:


Is there a way to ban you for *not* posting? :D

Anyways, you have to double your posts to make up for the lost time 8)


There is another way...

:) Vivek just let us know the email address or ph number of your boss. We would send him/her mass request to give you time to write scenarios and looking at the larger public interest we would like to convince him/her that this thing must be given high priority. At least for the country sake.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 25 May 2007 22:00

Okay okay okay :lol:

i get the message.

before you guys do something to my boss, here's the next post to keep you cool!!
:D

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 25 May 2007 22:04

NORTH OF TAWANG,
ARUNACHAL PRADESH, INDIA
2215 HRS THURSDAY


Major Patel walked up to the T-90 even as Captain Shukla clambered down from the turret and put his earphones around his neck. It was still dark, but both recognized a friendly face when they saw one, dark or not. In this case the friendly face was smiling at Captain Shukla. The last attack had been a major success, with both tanks safe and now friendly casualties. Even so, Captain Shukla’s tank was lucky to have survived as one of the anti-tank missiles had barely missed him, covering his tank with dirt and rock and causing some splinter damage on the right side of the hull. That was being checked out now, and overall, the tank was still operational. And his two tanks were no longer alone.

Four BMP-2 AFVs were moving north to join the defence at Zero Line, and several AAA batteries were being prepared to move as well. The Officer in charge of all tank forces in the Tawang zone of operations, Colonel Yadav, had convinced his superiors to look at the possibility of ‘solidifying’ the zero phase line with the addition of more reinforcements. He argued that it could be held, and that they need not retreat from that position unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago his ideas had been thrown out without consideration. But with the closure of Bum-La to enemy tanks for the time being and the success of the previous attacks by Captain Shukla at the Chinese positions had forced the Divisional commander to look at Yadav’s plans again.

Now the idea was to hold zero line as a standard Defensive Line with the use of the incoming armoured reinforcements. Colonel Yadav was pouing his forces into these positions, but he wasn’t surging forward any more T-90s. There was still a good possibility that the zero line may be breached, and that the Chinese tanks may break through the minefield laid out in front of them by the Artillery Command at Tawang. And T-90s were a rare commodity for him at the moment. Moreover, Captain Shukla was still the overall Armoured Forces commander at Zero Line and he would take over the command of the four BMP-2s as well. RODEO Force had just been augmented and expanded. And that was bad news for the Chinese infantry at Bum-La.

But there were aspects to this terrain that could be used to negate the advantages of the few Tanks in this particular battle zone. As such, the two Indian tanks had assaulted Bum-La with impunity because they had a clear line of sight to the target due to the flat terrain as well as the fact that they were able to move on it because of the same fact. When you moved half a kilometre left and right of that plain area, there were hills. In fact, the bend in the road was behind one such hill where the tanks were parked at the moment, denying the enemy their locations. This also meant that if the Chinese infantry moved south via the hills instead of trying to break through the Indian defences along this road, they could outmanoeuvre and outflank the Indian tanks, denying them any substantial LOS as well as freedom of manoeuvre.

To stop that from happening were two whole companies of Indian Army Mountain Troops deployed on the two hill patterns east and west of the zero line. Even so, should the Chinese attack these hills in numbers, the tanks could not intervene, because the battle would be on the north face of the hill, while the tanks were on the south side, so they would have to move around the hills to be of any use, and if they did that, they would be in that open plain south of Bum-La and thus vulnerable to barrages of Anti-tank fire from the now alert Chinese reinforced troops at Bum-La. And it didn’t take a genius to come up with the plan too. Anybody who could read a map would realise immediately as to why he should use hills if he was an infantry commander and if the other side had tanks…

Further north, the first Chinese attempts to overcome the minefield laid out at Bum-La was underway. As the mountain troops were watching the north using low light optical scopes, a dark silhouette was spotted against the bright background of burning vegetation as it moved around a bend north of Bum-La and turned towards the south, towards the crossing. It was a tank, and it seemed to be fitted with something in front of its hull…
Captain Shukla and Major Patel ran over when one of the soldiers called Patel over with a shout. Both men were soon standing over the rocks behind the dug-in Indian positions and staring through their binoculars at the advancing vehicle at long range as it attempted to move through the minefield.

Then there was a flash and a delayed noise as the mine-clearing attachment in front of the hull of the Chinese T-99 detonated a delayed action sub-munitions dropped earlier by the Indian Smerch Launchers hours ago. Then there was another flash and a similar noise, and after this Major Patel called over his Radioman to talk to his superiors even as he motioned three of his Milan Missile crews to take position. He was soon on the line with the artillery command at Tawang.

“This is RODEO Command, we have Chinese tanks attempting to break through Bum-La. I say again, we have Chinese T-99s on mine clearing duty. They are sitting ducks…requesting Fire Mission. Over.â€

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Postby sunilUpa » 25 May 2007 22:45

Sigh..it took 4 days for my nails to grow couple of mm..

Ye Dil Mange More

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Postby ksmahesh » 25 May 2007 23:05

ha finally I got my dose of action.

Hit them with everything you got!!


yes and please do not deprive us of our straving rations of action. I wonder where is Bala His scenario was also coming up fine and he is also AWL now. Did chinese su33 attacked his HQ in deep jungles of silent valley......

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Postby Sudhanshu » 26 May 2007 01:14

EDITED later
vivek_ahuja wrote:Okay okay okay :lol:

i get the message.

before you guys do something to my boss, here's the next post to keep you cool!!
:D


:) now you are talking.... just saved your boss!! He must be proud of you.
Last edited by Sudhanshu on 26 May 2007 02:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ManuJ » 26 May 2007 02:01

Finally! Sterling stuff as usual. One small nitpick:
But with the closure of Bum-La to enemy tanks for the time being and the success of the previous attacks by Captain Shukla at the Chinese positions had forced the Divisional commander to look at Yadav’s plans again.

Not even 5 minutes have elapsed since Captain Shukla's successful attack. Would that be enough time for the command to hear about it, formulate new plans based on it, dispatch BMPs, and for the BMPs to be on their way? The closure of Bum-La to Chinese tanks could be enough of an incentive...

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 26 May 2007 02:10

Would that be enough time for the command to hear about it, formulate new plans based on it, dispatch BMPs, and for the BMPs to be on their way? The closure of Bum-La to Chinese tanks could be enough of an incentive...


i think you misunderstood the statement. the BMPs were dispatched after the closure of Bum-La. the successful attack was just the icing on the cake.
also, considering that this was the one indian ground operation in the whole of Arunachal Pradesh that was actually an offensive, don't you think it mght have been watched in real time? remember the two Searcher-IIs over Bum-La? dispatched from the UAV base at Bomdila?

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Postby gopal.suri » 26 May 2007 19:06

Actually I registerd here to just ask where is Shankar? Why he isn't writing stories?

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Postby Shankar » 26 May 2007 23:12

just taking a break -while vive k is doing a splendid job -two distinct scenarios creates confusion and kind of breaks the continuity -different writting styles.The next scenario will be a bit futuristic with multiple carriers and operational lcas ,arjuns and of course mig 35 some where in 2025 ,our own GPS net work ,ucavs with anti tank missile ,a different form of govt and lead defense psu with rupee being the currency of choice for international trade
and it will not be a long war but swift interventions by indian forces utilising all three force to take care of un acceptable developments in its sphere of influence either on own or on request by friendly govt to restore balance and order and then quick withdrawal with minimum causality

Would like it to be collective effort shall ask for technical details from others like JC(he really knows and does not like me much but still ) economic projections from Hari ,and all of you including vivek of course,bala,singha and whole lot

Each incident /post shall be pre circulated to contributors for correction /suggestions /additions and then posted on forum

Shall appreciate if you can send e mail to ghoshsh@gmail.com with ideas etc so that a rough draft can be made up for circulation

would like to add maps and photos so some technical help will welcome

let us all join together to dream an achievable but futuristic scenarios for future based on present but include realistic projections of future

how do you like the idea??

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Postby JCage » 26 May 2007 23:15

Shankar, I dont dislike you, I just disagree with your debating methods and wish you'd be more practical when it comes to russia. Thats about it.
I have huge time constraints in being regular with posts, the kind the denizens of this thread insist on. But I can send suggestions from time to time time permitting.
Also, please keep one thing in mind, keep it grounded in reality- less technology, more grunt work.

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Postby Shankar » 27 May 2007 00:45

Thanks JC - Know some times my arguments are overtly russian supportive but then it is because my exposure to russian equipment and technology and those who work with it and also with US with whom I work all the time .The difference in approach is significant .And then the history of past 5 decades which I find difficult to forget even in these changed times particularly in areas of technology where we are some what behind like cryogenics,nuclear
and avionics (though dont have any direct link in avionics only heresay)

The way US is trying to stem indian development in first two areas if mind boggling and hardly ever gets reported in press for that you have to have a look at the IAEC documents ,the list of banned items,technology and processes which they guard so zealously comparatively russian systems and their approach is better .That is the best I can say here anything more will be counter productive

France is much better if quite expensive so is germany .UK is same just like US only they dont have much of interest

If you ask around you will find how difficult US is making things difficult in areas that really count the spares problem comming out of soviet union break up and following years is just nothing

And one last thing - irrespective of my support of russia (some call it blind) is in my view bases on indian interest not russian with all its attendant limitations

Just a difference in view point ,a different perspective thats all .

After all at the end of the day we all want to see a strong resurgent India like never before

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Postby Sudhanshu » 27 May 2007 07:00

ksmahesh wrote:ha finally I got my dose of action.

Hit them with everything you got!!


yes and please do not deprive us of our straving rations of action. I wonder where is Bala His scenario was also coming up fine and he is also AWL now. Did chinese su33 attacked his HQ in deep jungles of silent valley......


:) No, Bala's bunker is deeply dug, he would have definitely survived. I think would be back soon to tell us the tale.

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Postby Bala_R » 27 May 2007 16:29

Hi everybody.

Sorry for being very late in posting my scenario. Actually I am moving back to India from London, hence I am very busy with my work & packing. Will definitely post the balance in a weeks time. Please excuse me. I know how it feels, when the story is kept in suspense, since I also experience the same feeling, when Vivek is a little late in posting his scenarios.

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Postby ParGha » 27 May 2007 18:27

vivek_ahuja wrote:NORTH OF TAWANG,
ARUNACHAL PRADESH, INDIA
2215 HRS THURSDAY


The Indian Company was lead by a smart young Captain who had trained his men in the art of efficient teamwork and so his men were quick to respond.


Has there been a reorganization of company command structure in this near-future? Most Commonwealth armies, India included, place the company command under a Major in modern era... of course an Acting-Major can be in peace-post a Captain, but it requires explanation. As it stands it, at best, sounds archaic (i.e. way before Independence)... or worse Hollywood-inspired! You did get the aspect about a Captain handling most of the training right, thats one of the stepping stones to earn the company command.

Just started reading when the ground conflict began... the air war went right over my head, all pun intended.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 28 May 2007 10:50

Bala_R wrote:Hi everybody.

Sorry for being very late in posting my scenario. Actually I am moving back to India from London, hence I am very busy with my work & packing. Will definitely post the balance in a weeks time. Please excuse me. I know how it feels, when the story is kept in suspense, since I also experience the same feeling, when Vivek is a little late in posting his scenarios.


At least someone understand our pain...

Hope Vivek is taking note.

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Postby gopal.suri » 28 May 2007 11:19

Matter sorted Shankar. Post the stories now... :D

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Postby sum » 28 May 2007 13:57

Given that akash has been inducted in the story,shouldnt nag be doing duty instead of the milans??

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Postby amol.p » 28 May 2007 14:02

deleted
Last edited by amol.p on 28 May 2007 15:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby saty » 28 May 2007 14:11

^=========

amol.p you have been cautioned on this count before; if Vivek wishes to share his details with all and sundry; he will do so.

But till them please avoid sharing your or any one else's details:: Age place of stay etc on a forum like this.

It is for your and all our good only.

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Postby amol.p » 28 May 2007 14:16

saty wrote:^=========

amol.p you have been cautioned on this count before; if Vivek wishes to share his details with all and sundry; he will do so.

But till them please avoid sharing your or any one else's details:: Age place of stay etc on a forum like this.

It is for your and all our good only.


ok acknowledged


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