Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part IX

Hari Sud
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Postby Hari Sud » 20 Jun 2007 04:45

Hello Vivek

Good work

Do not delay the operation "Pivot Hammer".

Planes are already in the air.

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Postby Sharma » 20 Jun 2007 09:53

ksmahesh wrote:
All I have to do is take a hill and hold it against the charging Chinese hordes. That’s all. No big deal…what could be simpler? ............


I wish it was.


How about a Hisar BR meet or Satrod BR meet? Are there any more defence psycopaths here in Hisar?

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Postby b_karan » 20 Jun 2007 12:47

nits wrote:
Sharma wrote:Take a lead from Humprey Hawksley's "Dragon Fire" and "The Third World War" for SFF usage.

Can Chakrata military airport take AN-12 and IL-76s?


Hey

Book is very expensive... Can you tell me if its available for reading on some website...


If you really like the scenerio as posted by Vivek .....then ..the cost wont matter ...Its bit costly ... but the content is mind blowing ..superb narration by Humprey Hawksley .... as how India takes on both China and Pakistan ..It seems .... as if he knows every detail of Indian Defence Planners mind ......You will feel proud after reading it and will be worth all the money spent .... but it has a somewhat sad ending ...I hope u know that :(

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Postby nits » 20 Jun 2007 14:15

b_karan wrote:
nits wrote:
Sharma wrote:Take a lead from Humprey Hawksley's "Dragon Fire" and "The Third World War" for SFF usage.

Can Chakrata military airport take AN-12 and IL-76s?


Hey

Book is very expensive... Can you tell me if its available for reading on some website...


If you really like the scenerio as posted by Vivek .....then ..the cost wont matter ...Its bit costly ... but the content is mind blowing ..superb narration by Humprey Hawksley .... as how India takes on both China and Pakistan ..It seems .... as if he knows every detail of Indian Defence Planners mind ......You will feel proud after reading it and will be worth all the money spent .... but it has a somewhat sad ending ...I hope u know that :(


I know about sad ending of Dargon strike... but whether in WWIII also we meet with same end as of Dargon Strike.... ?

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Postby disha » 20 Jun 2007 14:33

Vivek

It is HAMMER time. Please make our day, we need it to get going.

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Postby ksmahesh » 20 Jun 2007 14:33

Sharma wrote:How about a Hisar BR meet or Satrod BR meet? Are there any more defence psycos here in Hisar?



Hisar is full of BR fans. It is indeed a nice idea. Lets have BR meeting in Satrod or Harita (20kms from Hisar bus stand) with lots of doodh/lassi/Bajre_ki_roti++Sarson_ka_saag++mountain of fresh butter. Sad this can happen only in winter (Sarson not available).

I am all for it. Lets hope many join us.

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Postby ksmahesh » 20 Jun 2007 14:37

nits wrote:I know about sad ending of Dargon strike... but whether in WWIII also we meet with same end as of Dargon Strike.... ?


Vivek please write a better book named perhaps "Dragon crushed" of "Elephant Strike" with a very sad ending for Chini && Paki. You have the talent and there is very high demand for such a book.

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Postby kltrivedi » 20 Jun 2007 15:29

This is my first scenerio so please go easy on me, thanks.

0900 hrs New Delhi. The army chief has to attend the NSC meeting. Routine exercise, every Friday there is a recap of week's events and its implication on India domestically and internationally. Nothing much to discuss as all was quiet on the western front.

0915 hrs Karachi: A van speeds through the busy morning rush hour. Salim knows very well its very crucial for him to reach his destination in time. The Sheikh had finally given a go ahead for the operation and it was only matter of time when the great Kafir nations are broken to pieces. The cell phone rings, "Aaslam walikum bhai where are you? Salim answers, "just crossed the Clifton shopping mall I should be there in few minutes. These rickshaws are slowing me down". The voice on the phone says, "bhai, dont do anything stupid, its very important that you get there, make sure you dont arise any suspicion. Shaitan has his ears open". Salim knew how important he was to the mission and he knew the world will change after this operation. "Inshallah bhai nothing will go wrong, we will crush the shaitan" said Salim. The voice over the phone disconnects.

0915 PMO: Meanwhile in PMO the PM arrives. As usual he takes his seat and thanks God for keeping the equilibrium in the cosmos. He begins to read the the files that are awaiting his review. The phone rings. "Yes?" "Sir, you have a NSC meeting to attend at 0925 hrs". "Are all the members there?" "No sir. The DM is not available due to his trip to NorthEast. Apart from that all members are accounted for". "Thank you. Please remind me at 0920 I need to clear some work". "Yes sir". PM places some files away and reaches for the one marked "Intel Brief Pak". The PM reads through it.

0920 hrs NSC Meeting: All the members have arrived. The army chief makes his way over to the Air Chief and the Naval Chief. "So how are the skies over Delhi today? "Just fine Rana, just fine. Did you review the satellite pictures of Chinese construction at Nepal border?", says the Air Chief. "Yes I did. I am going to bring this up with the PM. Enough is enough. This diplomacy initiative is not working. China must be made to understand, its not dealing with some shit of a country on its payroll", says the army chief. "Well I under where you are coming from. We can send a strong signal to these Chinese. I know they are conducting some naval exercise near Indonesia. I can open their eyes if I get the go ahead", says the Admiral. "Apparently our netas love hakka noddles so I guess sending messages is out of the question" says the Air Chief.

0925 hrs Karachi: Salim makes a right Fatima Jinnah Road. He moves his van slowly to the left and stops. He gets out and approaches the tea stall. "Asslam walikum, one tea". "How many sugars"? asks the vendor. "I dont know two, yeah two is good", says Salim. "Bhai jaan its not good for your health, have one, and be happy and live longer", says the vendor. Salim stares at the vendor, he cannot believe it. The police presence near the India House is not the same as it used to be. Vendor had told him there was only one company of karachi police protecting the Indian Counsalate. "Bhai okay give me one, hey do have the newspaper?", says Salim. 'Nahin, too many people in the morning they bought them all".

0925 hrs NSC Meeting: [The PM walks in, all stand up and greet the PM] Sit down please"' says the PM. "I see the DM is not here he has some pressing matters to attend to at our NorthEast. I am sure the Army Chief will be happy to explain, anyway lets get to the business at hand...I just got the intel report on our friend. It seems RAW is convinced a major attack is going to take place against Indian interests in Pakistan...this intel in some manner has been discussed with our counter-parts?" "Sir, we have warned the Pakistani side of this threat but they as usual have called it paranoia on our side...they are insisting on our sources...they want to know where we got this info from the they could authenticate it", says the RAW chief. "Bloody hell with these idiots...why dont we ring up the Americans...and deal with this issue? I mean they have their foot right up their asses." says the MEA. "No...we cant always run to the US we have to deal with this...call up the Pakistani ambassador tell him I personally have asked that Pakistan take this warning seriously and PM of India needs assurance that Indian interests in Pakistan will not be harmed...if they are then PM has to answer to the Indian people..."says the PM.

0930 hrs Fatima Jinnah Road: The cell phone rings. "Salim, its time, we are all ready. You sister needs the new heena powder though, the grooms side will be here at lunch time. Please make sure you get the band wallahs". "Yeah Abbu I know, I'll be there on time, we will dance all night hahah...I cant believe time has come", says Salim. Salim turns off the phone and says goodbye to the vendor. "Kuda afiz mian, see you when allah lift kraye", says Salim. "Inshallah bahi Inshallah", the vendor.

0930 hrs NSC: 'The Chinese are not taking us seriously. Our protests are falling on deaf ears sir. A meesage needs to be sent to the CHinese that India does have a sphere of influence and we cannot tolerate them intruding, today its a road tomorrow they will be in Bhutan. Sir we cannot fool ourselves. It must be told to the Chinese if peace and friendship is not one-sided." says the Admiral. PM says, "agreed but the situation with the Chinese is...well apart from a military message what message do we need to send?" "Sir if I may, why cant we send a military message?" asks the army chief. "well for starters we cannot afford a war with China, and second the western nations with all their hoopallah need China", says MEA. "We could begin sabatoge activites, we do have links with few Maoists in the region we can make them active", says RAW. "no that is out of the question...we cannot afford to have others work for our interests and policies, I still remember Sri Lanka", says the PM.

0945 hrs Fatima Jinnah Road: Salim slams on the gas peddle, the gate seems to be rushing at him as if running to him, he runs over two policemen, and the crowd begins to helter skelter, there are couple of rounds fired, and their is a loud explosion, Salim full of his feeces due to defacation is nothing more than blood, feeces and few pieces of burning flesh.

There is a suicide bombing on Indian Counslate, many are dead people are seen running around soaked in blood, not knowing where to run, through this chaos, a group of ten men quitely and hurriedly have entered the complex. The hole in the inner wall caused by the explosion is their gateway to their prize catch. The men enter the lobby and spray the receptionist down. Three men pull security to their left where visa counselor's office connects the lobby. Meanwhile in the basement, Arjun and Rampal lock their MP5s and wear BVs. Seven men climb the stairs to get to the second floor. They begin to clear rooms using stun grenades. Rampal being the front man walks up the stairs and bursts his MP5. The bullets hit one of the terrorists, while the other two take cover behind the receptionist's desk. Finally the terrorists reach the High Commissioner's Office and spray the door with bullets, one of the kicks the door, while other pointing his gun enters the room and moves to his right. Surinder Singh fire his weapon at the lead terrorist hitting him on the forehead, while getting sprayed with 7.62mm rounds. "Where is the kafir?" says one terrorist. Finding no one in the office they run to the far end of the walkway.

The second group enters the deputy High Commissioner's office, and rifle butt's the deputy. They tie him up and begin to drag him out. "Kafir is not here...ya allah what do we do?" says the terrorist. "We have this one, grab another important kafir and lets get out of here" says the team leader.

Meanwhile Arjun is engaged with two terrorists. He is running out of ammo, and has one more clip left. He cannot reach the MP5 dropped by Rampal. He only has the stairs as cover. The remaing terrorist make their way down to the lobby. Team Leader, "take this kuffur out, kill that harami kuffur and lets get one more, hurry hurry". Arjun is gets up and single shot begins to fire and advance, his MP5 is emptied, he throws it down and pulls out his 9mm, begins to fire, not realizing he has been hit multiple times, he doesn't know how many rounds are left when he feels a sharp pain between his eys.

0955 hrs NSC: "There is another matter of Rupee's strong showing against the dollar, sir we feel that India should not join the Euro bandwagon, in the longer run dollar will prevail, the Euro dollar is balloon that can burst whenerver US wishes for. We must look favorably to the dollar" says Finance. "We are sending a wrong signal to the US. We must accept one truth, we want to be like them economically, socially, militarily and diplomatically, then why the hostility. US today does not have friends, India today does not have friends either, we must re-think our policy" says the air chief. "Easier said than done, with communists hounding me how in god's name will I get this done?", thinks the PM.

0955hrs India House: The team leader enters the counseler's office and grabs Chumongak. It was a good think Chumon had thrown his 9mm before. Hit on the face and bloody Chumon's hands are tied and blindfolded. "lets go lets go pull security in the rear, you security right, make sure to place the charges at the front door, move out!!!", says the team leader.

1000hrs India House: The terrorist exit the building with their catches and slip through the chaos that is outside. By now the fire dept, local ambulances have reached the site, no police or military personnel are seen. The white Land Crusier slowly makes its way through the body parts and weeping of women, Adbul takes out the remote and presses the button, there is another explosion, the front entrance caves in, India house resembles buildings of Beruit.

>>>>>>>>> To Be Continued

Sharma
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Postby Sharma » 20 Jun 2007 20:45

ksmahesh wrote:
nits wrote:I know about sad ending of Dargon strike... but whether in WWIII also we meet with same end as of Dargon Strike.... ?


Vivek please write a better book named perhaps "Dragon crushed" of "Elephant Strike" with a very sad ending for Chini && Paki. You have the talent and there is very high demand for such a book.


Pls write to me at amit dot sharma at the rate harpercollins-india dot com. Blue Bird can be a good place to meet. Is lake still there?

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Postby ksmahesh » 20 Jun 2007 21:19

Sharma wrote:
ksmahesh wrote:
nits wrote:I know about sad ending of Dargon strike... but whether in WWIII also we meet with same end as of Dargon Strike.... ?


Vivek please write a better book named perhaps "Dragon crushed" of "Elephant Strike" with a very sad ending for Chini && Paki. You have the talent and there is very high demand for such a book.


Pls write to me at amit dot sharma at the rate harpercollins-india dot com. Blue Bird can be a good place to meet. Is lake still there?


Yes the lake is still there but we cannot organise Hisar meeting before next year Jan as I am oscilating between leeds and dortmund.
:(

One a better note winter is the best time for lake side lunch (Summer is burning hot).

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Postby Sudhanshu » 21 Jun 2007 19:06

kltrivedi good writing.. keep it coming.


P.S I was waiting to see few more posts of yours before writing this.. because I am afraid to be killed by anticipation.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 22 Jun 2007 02:25

:)

General Warning:
Vivek if you won't come back soon, I and ksmahesh would again start our "fillers" just to entertain the desperate BRFites who repeatedly press F5 button thinking you have posted something.

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Postby mdhoat » 23 Jun 2007 06:26

This is my first post on BR. Great Job Vivek..One of the best scenario I ever encountered. Vivek we are still waiting for the fate of the 4 Su 30 MKI's that were suppose to face Su 27's around 2 PM in the Tibet sky. And also please compress the timeline between consecutive scenarios...all this buildup and wait kills

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Postby Sudhanshu » 23 Jun 2007 11:22

deleted

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Postby Sudhanshu » 23 Jun 2007 11:32

since this is scenario thread, I think I raise this point here:

Since Pakistan already increasing his nuclear arsenal and missiles. Why next time they won't do something like this (a surprise attack):

USA surrenders after Russian surprise first strike

I assume that such surprise will be done keeping in mind our deployment and readiness of anti-missile systems at that time.

And, why they won't be successful. Watch till end of video to understand it.

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Postby kit » 23 Jun 2007 21:50

The doctrine of first strike itself is a very potent one. That itself is a deterence.Sometimes as equal to having a nuclear weapon even if you dont have it in reality and is good at keepin others guessing .. now if India doesnt have a fusion bomb and says we are changing our doctrine to first strike .. that itself becomes as good as having deployed a thermonuke weapon as far as threat perceptions of other nations go.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 23 Jun 2007 22:46

Hence, we should re consider our doctrine: "no first use"

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Postby SGupta » 24 Jun 2007 08:42

Further this is why long range hypersonic missiles should scare the living daylights out of any opponents. This will shorten reaction times quite dramatically ....

Are the Russians now not deploying or developing something that will make current anti missile shield technology obsolete against these specific missiles. I understand they have a low flat trajectory and are capable of increased speeds.

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Postby mdhoat » 24 Jun 2007 10:15

This is my 2nd post on BR. I am a veteran US Marine.

Vivek, another weekend almost gone....please dont keep your fans waiting for too long.

Anways my 2 cents as a complement to your scenario.

Vivek, you havn't committed about the time frame of this scenario yet. Neither the scenario itself suggest the year. As the war is only a day old and most of the military capability of both countries is still not fully on display, you still have the time to assume it to be around 2012 time period. Doing this will give you far greater possibilities to explore and pack that much more excitement and punch in this masterpiece.

I Understand this is the first day of the war and things can only move so fast. But in one of your replies to a question about the preparedness of china 's logistics in the very 1st day itself...you mentioned that we will be surprised in the end. I assume that china is having a hidden agenda under this tit for tat war. To me it seems they got surprised by the timing of Indian offensive and never could put all their pieces in place to be of any real advantage. Thats the only theory to explain mobilization on such a mass scale from Chinese side in Sikkim sector in under 10 hours. And the movement of their troops in the Tibet sector. In the subsequent days it would be really interesting to see other elements of modern day warfare coming into picture.

How about China Navy coming into the picture thru some freak accident or adventure from their operational naval base in Maldives (Given your scenario time frame). China's surface naval fleet might not be big on paper but they do command a substantial naval submarine force. If this battle is around 2012, then we can assume one ATV, INS Vikramaditya, 1 Scorpene, 1 ADS at the very least. But on second thought it's asking too much from already complex scenario and a super human effort sensing the level of research and effort you already seem putting for a vivid scenario of this class...hats off to you.

India shouldn't be overly worried about their western sector as current Pakistan Airforce has very limited offensive capability at the very least. And they know their limitations. The Su MKI phobia is a big Deterrent. Same is the case for the Indian Army.

One thing seems missing in the otherwise superb scenario i.e. the use of UAV's from Chinese side, or their military satellites coming into picture. To the very least they are expected in the Twang sector. One possible explanation is as there is no one to represent the Chinese side..they might be using these and we never know.

Vivek, earlier in the buildup of this scenario you mentioned about WAC moving some Su MKI's and LCA's from the western border...but beside that one mention LCA's are not ever mentioned again. It would be awesome if you can bring LCA's in the picture against Su 27's or J-10's. As this scenario is on 07-12 time line....We always have the option to switch it to 2012 year and by then India should have somewhere 2 squadrons at the very least (very optimistic estimate). LCA's in actual combat scenario from a master of warcraft like you will be great read. Most of the final configuration and paper battle worthiness is already public knowledge.

There was no Mention of MRCA in the scenario. If this is year 2012. we can have possibly atleast 2 squadrons of Mig 35 (IMHO that the clear winner of the deal).....optimistic assumption, but not far from reality. Bringing them in picture will be great.


Vivek, to ease of some of the pressure of research. I volunteer to do some research and scratch scenario with technical inputs and email those privately, if you feel that can be of any help. I hope other far more experienced member's with likes of singha, Sunil, Rakesh, JCage etc can contribute and make this scenario play on a much grander scale. You will still retain command of everything as you will be assimilating all the private mails and put them into final shape whichever way you seem fit.....in case you think it make sense, my email is mdhoatATyahooDOTcom.
Last edited by mdhoat on 24 Jun 2007 13:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 24 Jun 2007 12:37

anybody home!!!!!

Vivek, Shankar, Bala, Kltrivedi anyone.. respond anyone.. this is not fair. Are you guys on a strike?!

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Postby Sudhanshu » 25 Jun 2007 21:48

SGupta wrote:Further this is why long range hypersonic missiles should scare the living daylights out of any opponents. This will shorten reaction times quite dramatically ....

Are the Russians now not deploying or developing something that will make current anti missile shield technology obsolete against these specific missiles. I understand they have a low flat trajectory and are capable of increased speeds.


You are right my friend.. :) If I were PM I would launch the full fledge strike against Pakistan the next day we have sufficient number of these missiles.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 26 Jun 2007 12:03

OPERATION PIVOT HAMMER
THE HIMALAYAN RANGE AROUND PEAK NANDA DEVI
THE INDO-TIBETAN BORDER
0045 HRS FRIDAY


The first five Indian aircraft to cross back into Tibet after a whole twelve hours of waiting were four of the SU-30MKIs and a single ELINT B-707 of the ARC. The EW crew were the same from the PIVOT-STRIKE Operations, and the bird was the same as well, but all were under different call signs now. This had been developed to manage the large fleets of aircraft of the CAC and the EAC in control. Especially from the Phalcon controller’s point of view. With these many aircrafts flying around, they were having a harrowing time trying to parcel them off to different strike packages. It had been decided from the first day itself to fix the call-signs of different flights based on the operation they were part of, followed by the regular call-sign attached. Therefore, all PIVOT-HAMMER aircrafts had the prefix: ‘HAMMER’ attached to their call signs for ease of control.

Operation PIVOT-HAMMER was under control of the CAC and the command and control chain ultimately ended there, but that strategic control. The Tactical control was under the Mission commanders on board the two Phalcon AWACS flying on the eastern and western borders of Nepal, inside and above Indian Territory. Their call sign was HAMMER-HEAD-ONE and TWO. They would not be venturing anywhere over Chinese territory for the time being, the Chinese Air Defence Environment there still being deadly. With the geography in mind, this meant that they were still south of the main Himalayan peaks and therefore had restricted coverage of the Chinese airspace. This meant that the first waves of Indian air superiority fighters would be flying using their own surveillance systems.

That could be lethal, especially since the Chinese were flying a single KJ-200 AEW aircraft, a smaller version of the KJ-2000 type aircraft fitted with side-looking radar and mounted on a smaller aircraft, and several ELINT Y-8 variants over Tibet at the moment. And despite their dubious radars, they were still capable of spotting anything the size of a SU-30 coming over from the south and vectoring their own interceptors to engage. To ease the burden, the ARC B-707 was to cross over behind the SU-30MKIs for electronic and communications warfare support.

In addition, they had on board a couple of controllers to provide local control of the Indian aircraft that were beyond the coverage of the Phalcon to the south. They would help gather that crucial ultra long-range tactical air intelligence about incoming threat while also evaluating the capabilities of the Chinese AEW radars for EW purposes in the near future. This crew was flying with the call sign of HAMMER-CALL.

The chain did not start or end here. Behind the Phalcon were the three IL-78 In-flight Tankers flying strike-support missions and ahead of all these aircraft and at the sharp end of the two three hundred kilometres spear were the four crews of the SU-30MKIs, flying under the call signs of HAMMER-ALPHA. There were eight more SU-30MKIs flying just south of the border near the Himalayan peaks of Nanda Devi who were waiting for the order to deploy north when the appropriate time came. Till that time, they were to fly CAP missions for the delicate Support elements against any threats. HAMMERHEAD-TWO to the east also had twelve SU-30MKIs under control, but they were all south of the border at this time. They had support from the ARC Gulfstream-III ELINT bird instead of a B-707 due to a shortage of aircraft. They would have to manage with that for the moment, as there was very little that could be changed anyway even if they had wanted it to.

Against this hidden Indian threat to Chinese airspace control over Tibet was a mixed force of twelve SU-27s and SU-30MKKs flying with H-6 Tanker support in groups of four aircraft each, and another twelve J-8II aircrafts flying close escort to their AEW and the Y-8 aircrafts. Their flight patterns had indicated their strict control by the PLAAF AEW controllers. It was as if they were dogs tied to a leash, moving around only as far as the leash extended. That would have to be around half of the Chinese AEW coverage, seeing that the Chinese would want to watch what’s coming towards them before moving fighters around. Considering the effort and planning being displayed in the EAC theatre by the Chinese, their utter lack of offensive operations in this sector apart from the abortive bomber attack of the previous day had been baffling the Indian CAC Commanders for some time now. That was when the DIA had supplanted them with a theory based on Satellite imagery and communications intelligence. The answer had been infrastructure.

The Chinese had few airbases located within Tibet, primarily because of the lack of flat ground where there were roads and lack of roads at the few places where there was flat ground. The only few airbases were around the Lhasa region, where there actually were flat spaces and road; a rare commodity indeed in Tibet. Most of these airbases were close to the Indian border and susceptible to attack, not unlike the Brahmos attack on the Chinese airbase holding the airborne troops of the previous day under NORTH-SWIPE operations. As a result they were filled with aircraft that the Chinese considered relatively expendable and those having short range only. These included mostly ground attack types and the J-8II aircrafts.

All other Long range aircrafts like the Chinese Sukhoi fleets were being staged from bases further away and thus needed Tanker support for missions that involved long durations like CAP missions over Tibet. Apart from that, the Chinese had a large fleet of tankers, but most of them were being sucked away to support the attacks in Arunachal Pradesh. That left only a few tankers for the Tibet based operations, and even those were being drained from the bases located for support of operations against Taiwan, leaving that sector dangerously uncovered, making the Taiwanese very happy and whose Ambassador was showing enthusiastic support for India and quietly thanking their stars.

These Tankers obviously could not support a large fleet of long-range fighters for extended periods of time, and as such, the Chinese aerial Presence over Tibet was sufficiently armed with sensors and airborne radars, but lacked the teeth to take on offensive operations simultaneously with the eastern sectors. It also made their defensive operations somewhat thinner than what they would have liked, and the Indian commanders were unlikely to fail to see that even if they were blindfolded ordered to look away. On the other hand, most Indian airbases were literally placed next to the area of operations because India, unlike Tibet had a lot of plains and flat ground even up to the border itself. It was a recipe for disaster for the Chinese, and something they had noticed as far back as in the 1962 war. But that was when the Indians had failed to take advantage. This time the Indian CAC commander had come calling on the Chinese in Tibet, with ‘Chinese Catastrophe’ written all over on his smile.

The first four SU-30MKIs flew west of the main Himalayan Peak known as Nanda Devi, and crossed over into Tibet soon after. They were being closely followed by the B-707, which crossed behind them. This close to the Nepal border, the B-707 crew was faced with some friendly, neutral and some unfriendly radar emissions. The friendly ones included the Phalcon radar that was still tracking them, although it was getting increasingly intermittent as they moved beyond the Himalayan Peaks.

The neutral ones included the Nepalese radars, of the Indra-II design, given to them as military aid by the current government under the urging of the Defence Minister. These began tracking the Indian aircrafts but unlike the last time, did not start pestering the flight crew for identification, instead choosing to remain quiet and stay out of what was happening. That was a graceful exit for them since they didn’t have anything to do about it in the first place. The unfriendly ones were the old radars near the town of Khaleb south of the Kailas Peaks in Tibet.

That was familiar territory too, as far as the ARC crew was concerned. They began interfering with it almost immediately, since all the information was available anyway, and the Chinese on the ground began reliving that old horror again. This time, however, they had sorted out their comm-systems beforehand it wasn’t long before the five Indian aircraft were getting swept by the Chinese AEW radars from very long range, and the passive systems on board the ARC aircraft were busy classifying and sorting them out under threat priorities.

Then the real threat materialized as the ARC Communications intelligence equipment intercepted calls from the Chinese airborne controller to their SU-27 comrades to move and engage on the given bearing. The Indian planners expected this, and that was what this small first incursion into Tibet was all about: Ring the bells to call the person living inside to the door…then smash the door down on his face.

The SU-30MKIs began their movement to put themselves between the ARC aircraft and the incoming Chinese SU-27s. There were now four of the latter inbound on the Indians. The other two groups of SU-27s were so far not being sent forward. That was the unexpected part. The Indian plan had been to bring them all south for a swift and smart engagement. So they had to force the others into taking the bait. This meant that they had to stay over Tibet longer, and that meant that this first flight of SU-27s had to be pushed aside. That was a slight deviation from the plan, but whoever would have expected it to work exactly would have been a fool anyway.

“HAMMER-HEAD, this is HAMMER-CALL. We got four inbound suckers, but the rest are still waiting. Guess we will have to wait here a bit longer. Do we permission to eliminate first bandit flight? Over.â€

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Postby sum » 26 Jun 2007 12:34

Is the IAF so short of ELINT crafts that only the ARC is depended on for ELINT/EW??
Cant the MiG21s be used for the same??remembered reading somewhere that the MiGs were used for EW roles..
Actually,which crafts in the inventory perform the EW/ELINT roles for IAF?

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Postby gauravjkale » 26 Jun 2007 12:35

never regretted waiting, good work vivek, Waiting for more.

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Postby rachit gupta » 26 Jun 2007 16:57

It is my understanding that mostly all the aircraft in the IAF inventory can be fitted with EW/Jamming Pods thus performing that role.
There are 2 aircraft in partlicular, which are used in the said role, MIG 27 & Mirage 2000's. These aircraft are given the EW responsibilities usually when a strike package is formed.
PS: Mirage 2000's i believe perform a dual role of EW & AA Supression


sum wrote:Is the IAF so short of ELINT crafts that only the ARC is depended on for ELINT/EW??
Cant the MiG21s be used for the same??remembered reading somewhere that the MiGs were used for EW roles..
Actually,which crafts in the inventory perform the EW/ELINT roles for IAF?

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Postby Hari Sud » 26 Jun 2007 19:22

Vivek:

Ring the bells to call the person living inside to the door…then smash the door down on his face.

Masterly written.

Good work

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Postby gauravjkale » 29 Jun 2007 17:41

Vivek, where are you man??

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Postby ksmahesh » 29 Jun 2007 19:47

Vivek, where are you man??


MIA
WIA
SIA (Sleeping in action)
AWL
on TD in deepest forests of Andaman
etc etc..................

Only if he knew the addiction problem ..............................

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Postby Sharma » 29 Jun 2007 19:50

......or detailed for GD in CO sahib's kitchen garden.

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Postby ksmahesh » 29 Jun 2007 19:58

......or detailed for GD in CO sahib's kitchen garden.


eating extra rations I guess :)

other possibilities:

1. He might be hitch hiking on Ariane rocket with INSAT-4G to have closer look on Tibet mountains.
2. Swiming across BoBengal to "seek and Destroy" Chini subs lurking off Indian coast (by some secret weapon)
3. Flying a Su30MKI with strategic weapunj towards three-gorges dam in China and hence maintaining radio silence.

P.S.: I announce a reward of Lanson Black Lable (Champagne onlee) for the one who finds him (alive onlee)

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 30 Jun 2007 15:17

THE HIMALAYAN PEAKS, TIBET
AIRSPACE NORTH OF THE INDO-TIBETAN BORDER
0055 HRS FRIDAY


The Manasorowar and the Rakas Lake pair is a huge water-mass present south of the Kailas Peaks in Tibet. And given the general high altitude of the region, they are clearly visible from the air, especially if it is a clear day. During the night, the water is a great black mass that reflects the moonlight and glitters. And there is hardly a sound. The peace and silence is paramount. In all senses of the word, it is an awe-inspiring sight. This morning however, there the silence was broken by the sounds of man-made thunder as four Indian Sukhois suddenly dashed overhead and headed towards the north. The darkness was broken by the flashes of light from the four missiles that left the pylons of the aircraft and streaked across what was only seconds ago a starlit dark sky. No more. Against the intensity of light present, the stars disappeared. And the peace was gone, for there was a battle for air dominance being fought in the skies above.

The R-77s released by the Indian aircraft were being tracked by what the Indians were guessing to be four Chinese SU-27s. In fact, there were only three of them. The fourth was a SU-30MKK, acting as a local airborne control node for the group, connecting it with the Chinese Aerial ISR network, with the WSO acting as an airborne controller. But there was no way of knowing that at the moment from the Indian side, and as for the R-77s, the seekers in their heads didn’t give a damn what its target was. Seconds later the Chinese volley materialized and the game of chicken began. The Chinese would not have even known what was heading towards them and from where had it not been for the early warning handed out to them by their AEW aircrafts, and it was becoming clear to the Indian controllers that sooner or later they would have to be handled if the CAC was to secure any type of control over Tibet.

Then there were the Chinese ground based defences, and that was something to worry about too. Even though the radar-based systems were having their brains picked apart by the ARC B-707’s EW gear, the main threat was from the tiny heat seeking man portable systems that were literally littered to every single PLA unit in Tibet. And although these weren’t nearly as advanced as their radar based counterparts, the density of these systems was massive, as had been made clear to the unfortunate Indian Jaguar Pilot whose aircraft had been shot down over Khaleb the day before during the PIVOT-STRIKE operations. It was something that was reminded again when the four Indian SU-30MKIs began taking evasive manoeuvres and were forced to enter the lower altitude zones where the might of the Chinese numerical superiority was shown in all its glory.

The Indian pilots pulled level a thousand feet over the ground while travelling on afterburner and left clouds of chaff behind as they attempted to evade the inbound BVR missiles. Here the terrain helped, and for both sides too. As soon as the aircrafts dived low in between the peaks, the missile locks were irrevocably lost in most cases, and both sides knew that. However, as soon as they did that, they also lost control of their own missiles, and that would make the entire mission a wasted exercise. Thus both sides had continued to guide their missiles by not pulling out until the very last minute. And when the finally did break level flight, each had a few seconds left before high explosive warheads would slam into their aircrafts, and that was universally undesirable. For the Indian side, the threat was worse because as soon as the dived to escape, they entered the threat zone for the ground based point defences. But there was hardly a choice. It was a question of being in between a rock and a hard place.

The SU-30MKIs dived low and began weaving among the peaks and soon lost track of their own missiles. At the same time their RWRs silenced down, thus suggesting that they had also broken contact with the inbound missiles. That was when small orange flashes and streaks of tracers flying upwards punctuated the dark sky outside their cockpits. Then there was that dreaded sight of a small trail of smoke coming upwards from the ground. Then there were more, and then still more. The Indian crews reciprocated by dumping loads of flares and chaff out behind them, and the skies were soon full of fireworks all around. One Indian Sukhoi took several tracer hits in the engine area and thick black smoke began pouring out of its port engine at the same time as when the cockpit warning lights started flashing. The pilot instinctively pulled up and came over the hilltops and into the open to escape out of the hornet’s nest below. He was relieved to see the orange and yellow fireworks being left below and began concentrating on containing the engine crisis.

First thing he did was to check the skies for danger. He spotted the friendly B-707 to his far south immediately, and otherwise his radar spotted nothing. There were none of the Chinese SU-27s around. He began sheparding his aircraft southwards and towards the Indian border, turning his back towards the northern hills from where a single SU-27 came upwards too, after having evaded the last of the R-77s and the only one from his group to have done so. He also started to check the skies and found only a single SU-30MKI flying south at slow speed, obviously crippled from the ground defences and an undefended Indian ELINT aircraft.

It was a target set that he had been wishing for all along. He immediately let loose a radar directed missile at the fleeing SU-30MKI and then lighted his afterburners to bring the B-707 in range as well. Then fate shifted hands yet again as the remaining three Indian SU-30MKIs pulled up form low altitude on command of the group commander and suddenly came into the skies above, and both sides were surprised at the sudden sight of each other. That was when things started happening fast.

The Chinese missile was already in the air and heading towards the crippled SU-30MKI. Then two of the other Indian aircrafts let loose a couple of missiles in a snapshot against the lone Chinese SU-27. The Chinese pilot himself was too stunned at the sudden appearance of the enemy that he took that crucial couple of seconds longer to take his own shots. This is the kind of situation where training kicks in, and where technology takes a backseat against trained and honed instinct. And the lack thereof in the Chinese pilot was his undoing.

The two Indian missiles slammed into his aircraft two seconds later, and the aircraft was destroyed immediately into small fragments in a bone jarring explosion and which threw the burning debris falling down over the Kialas Mountains. But his efforts were not in vain as his missile hit its target and detonated just behind the crippled Indian SU-30MKI and sent it earthwards in a flaming fireball of twisted metal and flames. The pilot and the WSO ejected out safely before they were hit and their parachutes opened safely as they drifted downwards.

Their aircraft splashed into the cold waters of the Rakas Lake near its southern edge, where the cold water of the lake doused out the flames and sent the aircraft to its watery grave at the bottom. The ejected crew drifted southeastwards under the prevailing wind conditions and landed on the northern face of the Gurla Mandhata Peak that was a good fifteen kilometres from the nearest point of safety beyond the China- Nepal border.

In the skies above, the remaining three SU-30MKIs were flying around, making sure the skies were clear and ensuring that the Chinese AEW crew knew who had won and who had been defeated. It wasn’t long before the remaining eight SU-27s were being directed towards the area by the furious Chinese controllers and commanders. That was when the main Indian Sukhoi force of eight SU-30MKIs, flying south of the border was directed to fly northwards while the remaining three ALPHA aircrafts and the single HAMMER-CALL aircraft were directed to head south in a feigned retreat.

With the Chinese finally answering the doorbell with all their aircrafts and sending them southwest, the main objective of PIVOT-HAMMER was being realized, and HAMMER-HEAD-TWO was ordered into action. With the Chinese attempting to regain control of the skies above southwestern Tibet from the Indian Air Force, the southern sectors north and slightly west of Sikkim were being drained of the SU-27 cover.

The Chinese AEW controllers had unwittingly signed their own death warrants.

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Postby Singha » 30 Jun 2007 16:43

youtube has some nice footage of Merkava tanks on rocky and hilly terrain. people writing up on tank battles should take a close look at the speeds, formations, hull down positions, ranges of engagement, withdrawal patterns.

for example, the Merkava's seem to reverse at high speed and release white smoke also when moving back from hull down firing positions to be below LOS.

even a ant is a good teacher to someone willing to learn - chinese saying

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Postby gauravjkale » 02 Jul 2007 18:50

Thanks vivek for my weekly dose of scenario. These are one of the much needed things to bring us back to offices on monday mornings and start the week. Keep the good work on.

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Postby Hari Sud » 05 Jul 2007 03:12

Vivek

Now it is time to draw a picture of balance sheet of Chinese advances towards Twang and their losses in the air in the Eastern Sector

Further more, a graphical map of operation Pivot Hammer will do a great deal to explain the situation.


Hari

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Postby nits » 06 Jul 2007 04:38

...
Last edited by nits on 06 Jul 2007 04:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby nits » 06 Jul 2007 04:39

vivek - Deplay in posts are increasing with every post... i think now we need to look at previous post and read it once before we read new post so that we can get reminded that what happened last week... Well that was in a light vein... :lol: so guys plz dont start jumping on me... :wink:

Vivke is doing a gr8 work and we cant blame him as he has other obligations also... but please requesting you to post atleast 2 -3 posts /week :roll:

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Postby Sudhanshu » 08 Jul 2007 21:56

:)
Desperate BRFites to Vivek, Please Respond... DO YOU COPY!!!!
I repeat, Please Respond!!!

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Desparately waiting

Postby HarshS » 08 Jul 2007 23:24

What happens next:
1) First in Myanmar. Can the Indian troops airdropped to meet the government, do anything?
2) In the NE
3) In Delhi
4) In Tibet
5) In Beijing.

We're all waiting.

ksmahesh
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Postby ksmahesh » 09 Jul 2007 03:34

Perhaps it would be great if we form a group of BRFites responsible for kidnapping Vivek et al, keeping them in captivity to get all stories out and then releasing with a huge bundle of THANKS. :wink:

This thread has almost stopped moving.

Where is Bala_R, Shankar, (Vivek I know is MIA) Oh please someone please fill up the gaps.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 09 Jul 2007 04:01

Vivek has deserted us :(
:twisted: :evil: :evil: ksmahesh, I think your plan is only option we are left with. But, I don't think we should discuss the strategy and details of kidnapping in a public forum. Lets go private!!! and everybody else (from different part of country) is also invited, we need our coverage every corner of India at least.


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