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Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part X

Malay
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Postby Malay » 13 Apr 2008 12:56

With all due respect DSingh, i do appreciate the work you put in writing this scenario, but its just simply not feasible.

The scenario should atleast have some level of truth in it. No country would ever give military equipment to India on such a grand scale directly in a war, and this includes Russia. Secondly, i dont really think it helps the scenario to constantly write, 'Indian xyz forces are world renouned for their professionalism, etc, etc, etc'.

And EW is not some prized hereditary gift of the Israeli's that they can share with us in a second and we become just as good as them.

Your scenario is completely impossible even by fantasy standards.

I dont really mean to discourage you, its always great to see more and more BRF members penning their thoughts, the same applies for you. You can do much better, its evident from your posts that you are capable of much better. Just do better research next time of the equipment you use in your scenarios and be specific, your too general in everything.

Not to discourage you mate...

With Respect,
Malay

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Postby jamwal » 13 Apr 2008 13:01

brilliant writing Singh sahab. But theres one hitch.
China is one of the biggest trade partners for US and Europe. More Chinese immigrants live all over the world than Indians.
Their soft power (TaiChi, food, kung fu, blah blah ) is still more popular.
I don't think Indians could prevail on US and Europe to help her so openly.

As for Russians, recent bickerings over various deals leaves much to be desired.

Then theres the most important factor ..ICBM.
Chinese can nuke any city in the world if threatned.
Why'd any country risk a Chinese missile strike to help India ?

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Postby Shankar » 13 Apr 2008 15:36

PARADISE BLEEDING –SRI LANKA TODAY –AN EXCLUSSIVE BR REPORT

It was a quickly planned visit without much planning but gave me the chance to have a closer look at the ground realities in the Sri Lankan capital –Colombo .The A-320 of Sri Lankan LEFT Mumbai at the unearthly hour of 0330 hrs for the short two hour flight to Colombo on a more or less direct route over Belgaom-Coambatore- croos the Indian territorial waters some where west of Thiruvanthapuram and a short over the ocean stretch just outside Sri Lankan territorial waters and then a sharp descent turning descent to Colombo airport . The approach reminded me of the IL-76 approaches over Kabul during soviet invasion with flares streaming, only this time thankfully there were no flares.

The new terminal building is small but neat and well laid out .Immigration was quick and polite even though just the day before one of their ministers were killed by a terrorist bomb in down town Colombo. But then things changed. Security is overwhelming .Have never seen so many Ak 47 s and its variants anywhere even in Kashmir. The airport is quite far from the downtown area where all the hotels and government buildings are located. My hotel was next to the air force head quarters and that meant one security check post every 20 meters or so and particularly at night you are facing multiple AK s and at least one LMG when your pass port is being checked . It scared me for the first few times and then you kind of get used to just like the locals.

My place of work was next to the port and if I am not mistaken did see one frigate with a single helo patrolling the approach to port .The paint looked too familiar but did not see the number from that far ,

What I liked most in Colombo –well the driving courtesy and their friendliness towards Indians and their intense hatred for the organization called LTTE. The day starts early and ends by 1700 and then it is time to go to the local imperial type club with the Sinhalese friends and exchange stories of the civil war –about the super natural motivation of LTTE suicide bombers most of whom are females ,about the illogical retaliation strikes by Sri Lankan forces whenever one of their own gets taken out by a land mine or IED, about separate number plates used in Tamil dominated areas , indiscriminate killing of other Tamil factions by LTTE to have total supremacy in the region and of course the never ending battle up north .

The people of Colombo is taking everything in their stride ,the unending security checks ,the dwindling tourist trade ,lack of industrial growth and devaluation of their currency ( 110 SLR to a US$ ) . They still welcome visitors with a smile and rarely if ever discuss the privation and hardship of a civil war .

The most striking feature f Sri Lankan capital is the Indian Ocean –emerald blue and unending. But the barbed wire fences and the machine guns posts spoil the effect. The old building are very British and that part of the city looked so much like Kolkata .

Heard about IPKF and their battles with LTTE and how politics ruined the chances of their restoring peace in the island by their presence .About Elephant pass about Palely air base where the Mi 24 operated so effectively, how many ordinary Tamils liked Indian army presence and how LTTE took care of that spontaneous appreciation.

Bought some books of that IPKF period written by Sri Lankan authors, some of whom were involved directly in the conflict ,and later killed. Hope to share with you those details in future.

The Casino scene is good as long as you are ready to face the LMG s and AK 47 s while on your way back to hotel. But most visitors to casino were Chinese and Thais and Indians. Most locals just cannot afford such an extravaganza.

But of course how can I write about the paradise and not mention the dark skinned beauties that inhabit the island. They are gorgeous in their own way but one who stole the show in the looks department was from a far away land – where the Volga flows. She was with a very tough looking military type and that coupled to An 32 s and Mi 17 s I saw in the airport made connection obvious .

On the flight back the weather was clear and the ocean was sparkling like a million diamonds .From 34000 ft the savagery of War is hard to see and the emerald island looks just that. Hope some day the people of this beautiful place get their peace back.

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Postby Hari Sud » 13 Apr 2008 17:46

You three scenario writers have done well to confuse readers.

Why could you guys not pick a different time frame to post.

Here is Shanker brilliantly portraying Indian sea and air power with a slant to Indian victory in far flung Pacific Ocean. Then suddenly Dsingh jumps in with a worst case scenario.

Worst case scenario is welcomed, but one guy who is the middle of scenario, let him finish first.

Now Shankar is distracted, his last post is about Sri Lanka. He has left battle in the Pacific in the middle.

Vivek Ahuja the other good scenario writer took months of holiday; then suddenly appeared. He was going to jump in into sea battle in Bay of Bengal; then common sense prevailed on him and he backed off and began a new episode, continuing the same events, but began a new battle in Walong sector. I complement you Vivek for it.

Dsingh - your scenario will be very valuable. A worst case scenario is welcomed. Why do you have to jump into it when Shankar is about to conclude.

Moreover - Dsingh - a good advice for you. Attention span on BR posting is short. If you post a longest ever writing, which you have done in your last two posts; you are loosing the readers. They will glance but not read. Hence you should split your posts into shorter posts. Take a few days longer; readers are not running away. Your hard work should be rewarded with readers atleast giving you a good read. You get my point.

Shankar - Do not leave the pacific battle in the middle.


Hari Sud
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Postby Shankar » 13 Apr 2008 17:48

SOMEWHERE IN CENTRAL PACIFIC -1800 HRS

Lt commander Vina Peter came awake with a splitting headache .The water was cold and her back felt like it has been crushed in a ball mill many times over . He floatation jacket has inflated automatically when she hit the water. There was a metallic taste in her mouth ans as she spit out the stale blood a broken tooth came out with it. Her flight suit was torn at the shoulder and near her right fore arm but the bleeding has stopped . Her first task was to get the emergency locator beacon going at present strapped to her thigh. It was difficult to reach the locator and switch it on with the terrible back pain. Several futile efforts later she managed to switch it on and the small frequency agile transmitter started transmitting a pre arranged code. A small battery operated flashing lamp also came on and the battery health check indicator showed green and that meant good for 8 hrs at least .

Vina suddenly felt very hungry and very alone in the vast expanse of central pacific. As she managed to tear open the aluminum foil wrap of a kit-kat high energy chocolate bar she hoped sincerely none of the natives of this ocean decide to pay her a courtesy visit right at this moment .Her only self defense weapon was the 0.38 Colt service revolver and a spare magazine –not exactly ideal for a under sea duel with a shark and in night.

Vina Peter knew only too well about the white sharks of pacific and what they can do to a human if antagonized .She had no intention of becoming one more adition to the statistics .

Predatory Behavior of Pacific Coast White Sharks*
Only recently have we begun to understand how Pacific Coast White Sharks feed. Over the last 23 years, David Ainley, Peter Pyle, Scott Anderson and other biologists at the Point Reyes Bird Sanctuary on Southeast Farallon Island (off San Francisco) have been keeping records of White Shark predation events. Attacks on California Sea Lions, Northern Fur Seals, Elephant Seals, pelicans, and even five divers have been recorded off Southeast Farallon. The vast majority of attacks took place close to shore, where these potential prey creatures tend to congregate. Anderson and a colleague, A. Peter Klimley, have also seized opportunities to conduct grass-roots, innovative - and sometimes bizarre - experiments in order to understand how the White Shark chooses and captures its prey.
Photographs showing the silhouettes of a pinniped and a surfboard from below have been widely distributed throughout the media. The similarity between the two shapes is somewhat compelling. Small wonder that "mistaken identity" has been cited as a probable explanation for White Shark attacks on surfers by some researchers. From morphological and physiological studies, it is known that White Sharks have excellent photopic (bright-light) color vision. But does the White Shark actually rely on such a search image? Recently, Scott Anderson has equipped a surfboard with an underwater camera and trolled this rig along the surface at South Farallon. Analysis of the filmed attacks on the board reveal that the Great White typically stalks its prey by swimming along the bottom and strikes by launching a lightning-fast vertical attack. This is consistent with the theory that the White Shark makes use of a search image when hunting pinniped prey.
The Great White uses different techniques when attacking different species of pinniped. Northern Elephant Seals (Mirounga angustirostris) are not easy to catch. They are station wagon-sized, phenomenal repeated deep-divers, and very powerful swimmers. But at the surface, Elephant Seals have all the maneuverability of an aircraft carrier. In order to tackle an Elephant Seal, a Great White typically attacks from below and behind, immobilizes the seal with a tremendous bite to the hindquarters, then retreats and waits for its prey to bleed to death before returning to feed. Hunks of blubber and flesh are sawed away at the surface, but taken to or near the bottom to be swallowed.
This so-called "bite-and-spit" strategy is typically employed by White Sharks feeding on adult Northern Elephant Seals, but does not hold for pinnipeds of lesser dimensions. Smaller seals, such as the 1.5-meter Harbor Seal (Phoca vitulina), are grabbed at the surface and pulled underwater until they stop struggling, then eaten at or near the bottom; juvenile Harbor Seals are simply plucked from the surface like grapes and eaten whole (Harbor Seals seem to be the perfect White Shark snack food: they're abundant, slow-moving, and bite-sized - sort of Phoca McNuggets!) The 2.5-metre-long California Sea Lion (Zalophus californianus) is a more powerful swimmer than the Harbor Seal, and is typically attacked by a White Shark from below, struck in mid-body, dragged below the surface until it stops struggling, then eaten at or near the bottom.
Reflecting upon the White Shark's predatory modus operandi, several interesting patterns emerge. It is interesting that for all three species of pinniped, the White Shark stalks along the bottom, attacks at the surface, and feeds at or near the bottom. It is also interesting that about 50% of the divers that are attacked by White Sharks off the Pacific Coast are hit at the surface, with the shark usually grabbing the legs of the victim. What is especially intriguing, however, is that divers attacked by White Sharks are let go after the initial strike two out of three times. It seems unlikely that the mighty Great White can be so incompetent a predator that prey - once in its mouth - escapes 67% of the time. What's going on here?
To find out, A. Peter Klimley devised a bizarre modification of Scott Anderson's surfboard experiments. Klimley used a similar rod-and-reel rig to troll the waters off South Farallon with the carcasses of seals, pigs, and sheep (If Hemingway had known, he would have spun in his grave: The Old Man and the Sheep?) White Sharks attacked all three types of bait, but consistently rejected the sheep carcasses. Klimley speculates that the high energy demands of the White Shark may be a factor in rejection of food items. On a per-unit mass basis, fat or blubber is a very energy-rich food. Since seals and pigs tend to be quite fatty, they are accepted after the initial strike; sheep tend to have a significantly lower fat content, and may thus be rejected as low-quality food. So, putting all the pieces together, it seems that divers might sometimes be attacked by White Sharks because they are visually mistaken for seals or Sea Lions, but then spat out because they're just too damn skinny to be a worthwhile meal.

The deep throbbing sound of a slow moving sea king was a welcome noise .As she flashed the red light and waved the heavy chopper made a circle and then hovered just over her as the winch with a basket was lowered .It was then Vina blacked out once again.

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Postby k prasad » 13 Apr 2008 19:11

Shankar, the study you quoted talks more about the Great White Shark, which, while having a fierce reputation, is more of a coastal species.

More dangerous, and better known for ocean attacks, especially on Shipwreck victims is the Oceanic White-tip, which is notorious for wolfing down shipwrecked sailors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_whitetip_shark#Relationship_to_humans

Famed oceanographic researcher Jacques Cousteau described the oceanic whitetip as "the most dangerous of all sharks". Despite the greater notoriety of the great white shark and other sharks habitually found nearer the shore, the oceanic whitetip is considered responsible for more fatal attacks on humans than all other species combined, as a result of predation on those shipwrecked or from aircraft downed in the open ocean.

These incidents are not included in common shark-attack indices for the 20th and 21st centuries, but would appear to total in the thousands worldwide, with one incident alone, the torpedoing of USS Indianapolis on 30 July 1945, giving a minimum figure of between 60 and 80 sailors killed by sharks. It is said by some that tiger sharks were responsible for some of the Indianapolis deaths, but this has never been confirmed. Also during World War II, the Nova Scotia, a steamship carrying approximately 1,000 people near South Africa was torpedoed and sunk by a German submarine. There were only 192 survivors, and many deaths were attributed to the oceanic whitetip shark.

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Postby jamwal » 13 Apr 2008 22:26

Hari Sud wrote:


Moreover - Dsingh - a good advice for you. Attention span on BR posting is short. If you post a longest ever writing, which you have done in your last two posts; you are loosing the readers. They will glance but not read. Hence you should split your posts into shorter posts. Take a few days longer; readers are not running away. Your hard work should be rewarded with readers atleast giving you a good read. You get my point.



Hari Sud
Toronto



I for one..don't mind reading long posts. :-?
Short posts dont tell much and break the flow of story.

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Shooting war unlikely

Postby komal » 14 Apr 2008 07:02

The scenarios in this section are fascinating and fun. I think that a shooting war is unlikely between India and China.

Both countries will and should build their military might as a deterrent. Buth I don't think that deterrent will ever be used.

Both countries are only now recovering from the ravages of centuries of colonial rule. Both have much to lose in a war that would include devastating cruise missle attacks on industrial infrastructure. War with China will not be like a war with Pakistan.

China also doesn't need a shooting war to contain India. True, their investment in Pakistan as tool to harass and bog India down has not worked as expected. However, Pakistan still has its uses. Also, China can support the Naxalites in regions where the Pakistani tool is ineffective. China still has a strategic reserve in the CPM. The CPM will do its best to prevent any compromise on China's strategic interests.

Inida has no offsetting assets. Links with Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan,Japan appear to be inconsequential. The link with the US adds little value Saudia Arabia and China are the bankers to the US.

India's only alternative is to empower the intellectual and enterpeneurial capabilities of its population. This will provide both economic growth and the development of new technologies to counter China's strategic advantages.

On a final note, the impact of a war on the civilian population of both countries will not be inconsquential. Even back in 1962, I still recall a converation in my uncle's house. He was a Secretary in the erstwhile Govt. of Madras. His charge was to mobilize and transfer civilian medical personnel from Madras State to other states to assist in the event of air raids by the Chinese. Camps for training volunteers to serve as emergency medical orderlies were in the works.

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Re: Shooting war unlikely

Postby niran » 14 Apr 2008 08:56

komal wrote:
Both countries will and should build their military might as a deterrent. Buth I don't think that deterrent will ever be used.

Both countries are only now recovering from the ravages of centuries of colonial rule. Both have much to lose in a war that would include devastating cruise missle attacks on industrial infrastructure. War with China will not be like a war with Pakistan.





Dear Sir you sound like The one and only"Chamberlain" ever heard of his Highness.He was Brit PM during and the time preceding to WW2. See what
Hitler did to his beliefs. It is a "Dog eat Dog" world out there.
Chinkil never hesitated to take on UN during Korean war, then why in
name of (whoever you hold Divine) Chinkil would hesitate to take on India. Which Chinkil have already blue & black. gotten hold off territory
which is absolutely not theirs, and India got to send theirs to talk,talk
and more talk. China will never hesitate to have a shooting war
with India. Wake up and enshrine this in your Brain cells.

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Postby deovratsingh » 14 Apr 2008 09:01

Dear Mr. Sud and Malay:

I apologise , for length of my post, for being so long. However it was my final post for rationale and conclusion of the "worst case scenario- The sinking of carriers". I do agree with you it is cumbersome to read the long posts as well. I would like to point out following points-

1. Such a massive aid/ help to India amounted to only 40-45 Billion Dollars in 2012. Looking at Indian economy, Gross GDP was approaching 1 trillion dollars in 2007. With conservative 7.5 to 8% growth rate Indian economy would approach almost 2 Trillion dollars with almost 500 to 600 Billion dollars in Forex reserve ?. Hence this aid was less than 2% of GDP, was not a gamble for either Russians or Americans. However basis for the help was not based upon claculation of $$ amount, but rather, what would had been consequence ( to the world )of worst case scenario of Nuclear exchange with Chinese?

2. Threat of Nuclear brinkman ship is not new to the world. It had been experienced in 1945( resulting in Japanese Surrender), in 1960's during Cuban Missile Crisis, (resulting in withdrawl of Russian Missiles from Cuba), In 1971, by Americans ( Nixon), against India during India- Pak war ( and subsequent pressure of Russians on India to conclude war soon, and not complete the capture of all the Kashmir), and last one by PINKIS/ PUKIS in
2001 against India,( and subsequent American Pressure on India, not to invade PAKIs).

We all know in nuclear exchange, no one is winner, however after math would had put whole humanity to shame, as it would have brought human sufferings to unimaginable level, and economic human losses, which could not be measured in even BillionsX Billions X Trillions of Dollars. The 40-50 Billion Dollars of help was a drop in ocean, India would have written check next day for this massive help.

3. We also know if you carry or keep Guns, then you intend to use it if some one is coming to kill yoy or rob your house( i.e when time comes?) There is more chances of nuclear exchanges with any country based upon mistrust and miscalculations, than after rational analysis. If a line has been crossed for Nuclear Thresh hold, then they would be used. If defense minister perceived, that India and China are going to dismember India and take away Kashmir and Punjab in west, and North-East India on Eastern Front, then in the defense minister's view this threshhold has been crossed?

4. Malay- Military help on massive scale and sharing Intel is not new( e.g Americans to Russians and British in WW II, to India in 1962, British again in Falk Lands, Russia to India in 1971, Americans to Israelis in 1973, Russian to India resulting in Operation Blue Star). If your friend, with whom you have treaty, to protect each other, is not going to help you, then who else? As a Super power you would have problem with credibility. Lease of two three additional Akulas to India and 200 MIG29 SMT and 60 SU30 are less than 20 Billion Dollars)

5. Choosing between India and China is not easy one. But if you analyze reccent US strategic thinking, they are quite concerned about Chinese' military capabilities. Every one would be concerned about fighting Chinese and confronting them directly. But India had no choice but to fight it out, below Nuclear thresh hold? They would always chose India, over India.They would sell or allow to sell high tech military stuff to India, than China, which is their strategic competitor.

6.There is economic interest and then there is military one. If you have to chose between them and you have only one choice, you would most likely to chose your military's interest first. America can always build its business, later on.

7. Electronic war fare capabilities are something, which are kept secret. Once your adversary knows them, they become in effective.You come to know them only once a while, when they are used. Israelis have used them successfully against Syrians in 1981, making their SAM batteries useless in Bekka Valley, by using E3 Sentries and killing their Radars by Anti radiation missiles. They used the Tactis to knock out suspected Syrian nuclear sites in 2007, whch no one has used them, except Americans ( against Iraqui's in Desert storm I and Against Serbians). I am not aware if IAF used this technique against PUKI's or even if they have this Tech?

Lastly, as I said earlier, I did not mean to interrupt or derail, Vivek's and Shankar's very interesting scenarios, which I love reading. My conclusion of scenario was culmination of " only worst case scenario". If I did so, then my apologies to you all.

Regards,

DSingh.

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Postby SGupta » 14 Apr 2008 09:21

deovratsingh wrote:
Lastly, as I said earlier, I did not mean to interrupt or derail, Vivek's and Shankar's very interesting scenarios, which I love reading. My conclusion of scenario was culmination of " only worst case scenario". If I did so, then my apologies to you all.

Regards,

DSingh.


No disruption or derailment in my mind, write anytime. :-)

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Postby Shankar » 14 Apr 2008 11:58

EASTERN NAVAL COMMAND –VIZAG

Vice admiral Prakash Rao finished reading the short intelligence brief on extent and nature of political control over Chinese armed forces prepared for him by naval intelligence. As expected it was not very helpful or conclusive. He wanted to know how the new political leadership will act after the serious reversal of their forces in the pacific .So far they have not shown any overt counterstrike attitude and the main invasion fleet has entered the gulf of Thailand on schedule. His responsibility was to contain the PLAN surge as well as ensure the war does not spread to the land borders and of course cross the proverbial nuclear threshold.

This was a directive more easily issued than implemented. For the time being he decided to keep the carriers in pacific –some what out of harms way and to be pull them into combat only at a later stage.

Secondly he thought time is right for using the long range maritime strike assets of the navy both the Tu -22M3 and the Tu 142 s in a massive concerted strike at the core of the invasion fleets before the Chinese has time to recover.

He made a mental note to contact the air chief for the sukhoi escorts over ocean route and in battle area .He would be needing a substantial number all of 3 squadrons at least .

He also decided to decided to activate the Rajput class destroyers now pre positioned
In Vietnam to move out into the gulf with air cover to be provided by the flankers from Philippines when needed

All in all he planned on breaking the back of Chinese strike plan quickly and resolutely before they have time to recover from the recent losses and as far away from the shipping lanes as possible. UN moving with a ceasefire resolution was a real possibility and so was commencement of a land war.

Time was of essence


Military Affairs Commission


China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) has always defended the party as much as national borders.
During the early years of communist rule, most of the country's leaders owed their positions to their military success during the civil war, and links between them and the PLA remained very close.
But as this generation has died off and reforms have been introduced to make the armed forces more professional, the relationship has shifted subtly.
Party leaders know they are lost without the army's support, as became clear during crises like the 1989 Tiananmen protests. At the same time, senior military leaders realise they need the leadership's backing if far-reaching plans to modernise the armed forces are to be paid for.
The party's control over the armed forces and their nuclear arsenal is institutionalised through the Central Military Affairs Commission. The 11-man commission has the final say on all decisions relating to the PLA, including senior appointments, troop deployments and arms spending. Almost all the members are senior generals, but the most important posts have always been held by the party's most senior leaders.
Important links
The commission also controls the paramilitary People's Armed Police, who have the politically sensitive role of guarding key government buildings, including the main leadership compound of Zhongnanhai in Beijing.
In theory, the commission's chairman is elected by the National People's Congress. But in practice, the job automatically goes to the party's most powerful figure, who effectively becomes commander-in-chief.
The chairmanship was held by Mao Zedong and then Deng Xiaoping, who stayed in the job after he had resigned from all other positions, suggesting to some analysts that this is the real source of power in China.
Jiang Zemin, who became Chairman in 1989, had none of the military background or cachet of his predecessors. But by careful promotions of supporters and budget increases, Jiang ensured strong support from the military and within the Commission.
He resigned in 2004, handing the chairmanship to a man with even weaker military links, Hu Jintao, who has since tried to build his own power base in the military.
wenty years ago, soldiers in China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) spent as much time on "political work" and reading party speeches as military training.
Reforms introduced since the 1980s have made the armed forces much more professional. They have shed one million men in a bid to concentrate on quality not quantity. Emphasis is being put on better training, better weapons and better pay.
Nevertheless, the military's position as defender of the party means it will never be de-linked from politics. Officers and men still have to declare their loyalty to party principles, study its teachings and read leaders' important pronouncements.
PLA officers are also party members, and there is a separate party machine inside the military to make sure rank and file stay in line with party thinking.
In keeping with its more professional role, the PLA has lost influence over non-military affairs. It was forced by Jiang Zemin to give up a vast business empire. It also appears to be losing clout at the top of the party, where there is no PLA representative on the politburo's standing committee.
Some analysts think PLA generals are happy with this, so long as they retain influence over the areas which really matter to the military – specifically the Taiwan issue and relations with America.
There have been suggestions that on at least one of these – US relations – military thinking is different to the party leadership's. Senior military figures are thought to be far more wary of US intentions in the region, especially regarding Taiwan.




His executive assistant came in with an arm load of satelitte photos and e-mails from Delhi .The filter coffees came in next and the strike plan for the next phase of the war began in earnest

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Postby Shankar » 14 Apr 2008 16:28

2/17/2001: RUSSIA LEASES TU-22M3 BOMBERS TO INDIA
\
Izvestiya reported on 17 February 2001 that Russia signed a contract to lease four Tu-22M3 [NATO name 'Backfire'] bombers to India.[1] Eight Indian crews were already undergoing operation training for the bombers in Ryazan at the time of the signing.[2] Press reports have not specified which, if any, weapons would be supplied with the bombers. The primary weapon system of the Tu-22M3 is the Kh-22 [NATO designation AS-4 'Kitchen'] nuclear-capable supersonic cruise missile. Because Kh-22 cruise missiles can carry a 1000kg warhead to a distance of 400km, their export to India would violate Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) rules. Russia maintains that the Tu-22M3 bombers are not strategic weapons and that any cruise missiles supplied with the aircraft would only be armed with conventional warheads.[3]
Sources:
[1] Sergey Leskov, "Oruzhiye pakhnet dengami," Izvestiya, No. 29, 17 February 2001.
[2] Shamil Idiatullin, "NATO vpalo v sostoyaniye povyshennoy boyegotovnosti," Vremya i dengi, 16 February 2001, p. 2; in "Genshtab nachal reklamnuyu KAPO," Oborona i bezopasnost, 28 February 2001; in Integrum Techno, http://www.integrum.ru.
[3] "Russia to lease long-range bombers to India," Times of India, 10 February 2001. {Entered 3/13/01 RG}

ECEIVE RUSSIAN CRUISE MISSILES
ITAR-TASS reported on 10 December 1999 that four Russian-built Project 877EKM [NATO name 'Kilo'] diesel-electric submarines in Indian service will be armed with the Club missile system, which includes the 3M-54E (sometimes referred to as Alfa) anti-ship cruise missile [NATO designation SS-NX-27] with a range of up to 220km and the 91RE1 anti-submarine missile. The four submarines include three vessels already in Indian service and one still under construction in Russia.[1] According to an agreement signed on 5 November 1999, Russia will transfer 3M-54E technology to India, enabling it to produce these weapons and develop other, domestic missiles based on the 3M-54E. According to some reports, India has already begun work on a 1200km land-attack cruise missile.[2] In addition to the submarines, the Club system will arm Indian surface warships. India ordered three Russian Project 1135.6 frigates which will also be armed with the Club system, and there are reports that the system will eventually equip Delhi-class destroyers.[2,3]
Sources:
[1] "Chetyre indiyskiye podvodnyye lodki proyekta 877EKM budut vooruzheny noveyshim rossiyskim raketno-torpednym kompleksom 'KLAB'," ITAR-TASS, 10 December 1999; in Integrum Techno, http://www.integrum.ru/.
[2] Mohammed Ahmedullah, "Russia Sells Its Latest Cruise Missile to India," Navy News and Undersea Technology, 6 December 1999; in Lexis-Nexis Academic Universe, http://www.web.lexis-nexis.com/.
[3] Nikolay Novichkov, "Dlinnaya ruka dlya 'KILO'," Nezavisimoye voyennoye obozreniye, 17 September 1999; in Integrum Techno, http://www.integrum.ru/. {Entered 6/18/2001 MJ







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Postby Shankar » 14 Apr 2008 16:58

acquisition of Tupolev-22M3 (Backfire C) for the Indian Navy raises some questions of its intended role since the 'M3' version is designed for strategic bombing/maritime strike. In Indian Navy service its main weapon is projected to be the supersonic PJ-10 BrahMos ASCM (Anti-Ship Cruise Missile) and possibly a capability to carry Nuclear bombs, that DRDO and BARC say are available. If primary high speed reconnaissance role is also the peace time role intended, Tupolev-22MR would have been the better choice since the 'MR' version carries a giant SLAR (Side Looking Airborne Radar) in what was previously the internal bomb bay. This subject is interesting as TU can serve both recce and deterrence at low cost. The IAF is getting the Phalcon and we had recommended joint use and TU 22M can be a great force multiplier.
The Tupolev-22MR can conduct aerial reconnaissance from a great slant distance without having to over-fly its intended 'targets', thanks to the SLAR. However, prudence dictates that the Indian Navy should settle for at least two "compact" squadrons (6 each) of the Tupolev-22M3/MR in appropriate mix. As a standard Indian practice, European/Israeli radar, avionics and detection systems may well be integrated with the Indian Navy’s Tupolev-22M3s. The Russians are also projecting an upgraded Tupolev-22M5 version, and the Indian Navy may be interested. Of equal importance is the induction of an "extended range" BrahMos ASCM to further increase the stand-off distance and range.
he Indian aircraft-carrier battle group will additionally be supported by Tupolev-22M3 "Backfire" bombers and Akula II (Type 971 Bars) SSNs (Submarine, Nuclear powered, hunter-killer) also armed with air and submarine launched versions of BrahMos. Enemy surface units are to be overwhelmed with a saturated missile attack from surface, sub-surface units and airborne platforms providing very little reaction time, thanks to the sheer speed and sharp evasive maneuverability offered by BrahMos.
Although the effectiveness of aircraft-carriers are sometimes criticized, citing their vulnerability in context to proliferation of precision-guided munitions and missiles and supported by increasingly accurate GPS (Global Positioning System) guidance, it is still relatively invulnerable for its ability to move and maneuver in contrast to fixed military installations. Unless equipped with extremely sophisticated electronic and space based sensors, it is very difficult to precisely locate an aircraft-carrier battle group in open Oceans. Moreover our aircraft-carrier battle group will derive protection not only from its own air elements and associated surface and sub-surface platforms, but also from land based long ranged interceptor-fighters in the class of Sukhoi-30MKI in conjunction with friendly AWACS an in-flight refueling aircraft. Land based Tupolev-142 "Bear-F" will provide extended ASW coverage. It is reasonable to assume that the projected Indian Navy aircraft-carrier battle group comprising of "Admiral Gorshkov" in conjunction with Tupolev-22M3 and Akula II is set to dominate the Arabian Sea and parts of Indian Ocean in near future. It is second in capabilities only to the heavy naval presence of United States in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean region.



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Postby Malay » 14 Apr 2008 17:03

deovratsingh wrote:Lastly, as I said earlier, I did not mean to interrupt or derail, Vivek's and Shankar's very interesting scenarios, which I love reading. My conclusion of scenario was culmination of " only worst case scenario". If I did so, then my apologies to you all.

Regards,

DSingh.


No apologies required mate, we dont mind any 'interruption'. Carry on with your own scenario if you feel like it, that would just be one better.
All my point was that you should be specific in nature and not general regarding your scenarios as you were. Research anything and everything regarding your scenario, that is the key to success here. Most people here are not laymen and understand the nuances of different hardware and capabilities.

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Postby Shankar » 14 Apr 2008 17:07

h
e first air-launched BrahMos will be integrated on a Naval Tu-142 strat-recon aircraft. BrahMos CEO Dr A Sivathanu Pillai told LiveFist, "We are working towards development trials on the Tu-142. The people at Tupolev are being very helpful. It is a fantastic aircraft. It is a perfect platform for payload capacity and to carry the telemetry systems we will require for the development trials, planned in two years."

I wrote here a few weeks ago that the Su-30 integration of the BrahMos was on the backburner for now. Now, Dr Pillai has confirmed this to be the case. The facts: the Sukhoi Design Bureau is steeped in the PAK-FA fifth generation fighter programme, and has accorded low priority to providing consultation to BrahMos on the structural changes required to the Su-30MKI airframe fuselage and wings for integration of the air-launched missile. A thought process transpired briefly in 2006 that the structural changes could be carried out by HAL, considering that it was license manufacturing the Su-30s at Nashik. However, the Russian partners in BrahMos (NPOM) are understood to have put their foot down, and said that any changes to the Su-30MKI airframe would need to in consultation with the Sukhoi Design Bureau. So now, with a finned reduced-booster missile ready for tests, the Su-30MKI configuration waits for the design bureau to deign its time

And finally, the Navy's Ilyushin-38 is officially off the table as a potential carrier of the BrahMos. Three months ago, the Navy asked BrahMos not to proceed on design integration of the missile with the Il-38 platform. The reasons: after integration of the BrahMos on an Il-38's belly hardpoint, ground clearance became dangerously low -- a potential threat during landing.

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Unconventional Warfare

Postby komal » 14 Apr 2008 23:30

China will never hesitate to have a shooting war
with India. Wake up and enshrine this in your Brain cells.


Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The posts in this section of the forum are entertaining.

However, I question whether it is realistic to assume that either China or India will engage in set piece that replicates the Battle of Midway or the Battle of the Coral Sea with modern equipment.

Any war would involve both sides trying to immediately sever the Communications, Command and Control system of the other. This might involve such unheard of tactics as shooting down satellites or communications jamming on scale heretofore unseen.

Pro-Chinese fifth columnists would surely strike Bangalore, Hyderabad and Madras with traditional bomb attacks as well as, perhaps, chemical and biological weapons. India would be hard pressed to prove a foreign connection.

The attack on Parliament showed that India's enemies have no qualms about a pre-emptive assault on the civilian leadership.

Any Indian ally that dare offers support will receive similar treatment.

And the Chinese figheter and ships have never even left their bases.

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Postby deovratsingh » 15 Apr 2008 03:08

Komal,

You are talking about asymmetrical warfare? This is totally different warfare, than a conventional military conflicts, which we are dealing in the posts. We are going to fight asymmetrical warfare, as we have fought with Pakis ( in kashmir and Punjab) and won it.

Regards,

DSingh.

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asymmetrical warfare

Postby komal » 15 Apr 2008 04:48

My point is that the Chinese may perceive no strategic advantage vis a vis India in conventional or even nuclear warfare.

They may perceive a strategic advantage in asymmetrical warfare. The scenarios presented here, while interesting and well thought out, are unlikely.

I also believe that in the event conventional hostilities commence, both sides will destroy/impair the command/communiations/control infrastructure of the other side. Messages from distant bases to submarines in the front seem unlikely, IMHO. Commanders at the front will have to act on their own.

Regardless, I aplologize for any distraction and pray continue with the scenarios as they make quite fascinating reading.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Apr 2008 23:48


THE ASSAULT ON TAMU
MYANMAR
CONVOY 2-ALPHA, 23 INFANTRY DIVISION
1445 IST FRIDAY


From the hills, Tamu was now no more than a bunch of smoke pillars rising into the blue afternoon sky. The thunder and gunfire noises were echoing within the hills. The odd helicopter was flying over the remains of the town while streams of tracer lit gunfire were flying in every direction. To the massive convoy of Indian Army vehicles still pouring over the border crossing with Manipur, the sight was that of a brutal war that was being fought on the streets of the city. The reality was much worse...

Contact had been made. The rebels were outgunned and possibly even outnumbered, though the latter was hard to tell. But in what were now the smouldering ruins of a town laid waste by the Indian Artillery batteries, the odds were made even by the congested urban terrain that gave the Burmese rebels the advantage of fighting in their own streets and buildings. The Indian Army, on the other hand, was on foreign soil, but had far higher firepower to basically demolish building after building as the bulldozed their way to the other side of the town. The town was not to be captured intact. There were no civilians. It was then merely a chaotic close combat battle being fought between two armies...

Lt-Col Chauvan’s Infantry force was moving into the town in three penetrations. The outer two were sweeping around the outskirts as they attempted to encircle the town by moving eastwards. The centre force was being led by Major Gupta and his men supported by a T-72 tank platoon down the main single street of the town, basically carving their way from west to east. It was not easy going. Every window held the potential of a firing position. Every turn or an alley could hold a guy sitting with a Kalashnikov or a Carl-Gustav RL to blow out the turret of the advancing T-72 from point blank range, probably killing the soldier firing it too, given the extreme close ranges being encountered.

And so Gupta’s men were moving along with the tanks and both now mutually supported each other as they creeped along. The T-72 would support the soldiers taking cover behind its hull by blowing out the sidewalls or even the entire houses themselves that the rebel used as firing positions and the infantry supported the tanks by bursting into every house on the side of the road just before the tanks came into view. Since they were taking no chances and blowing up first and asking questions later, the casualties were at a minimum. Of course the same did not go for the rebels, who were now adapting their tactics by firing short bursts at the advancing Indian troops before escaping from the building before the T-72 main gun bored down on them. In effect then they were losing ground all the way, but were not giving up the fight just yet.

Gupta was behind the hull of the lead T-72 with a few other soldiers as they watched a section of Indian troops slam down the door of yet another house and storming inside following the explosion of the grenades. Gupta removed the ammo clip from his INSAS rifle and checked the ammunition left. Seventeen rounds...no need for a reload just yet...he thought while reloading the magazine in the rifle. a shout from nearby forced him to turn his head to see one of his soldiers on the roof of the building they had just stormed into and giving the thumbs up sign. Okay...our turn now...

Gupta and three of his men now got up from where they were crouching and ran across the few metres of open ground on the road and took cover aside the walls of the next house. Gupta ran up next to the window and threw in a grenade that exploded and sent a smoke and debris cloud rushing out of the windows. As he clambered through the window along with another soldier, the two others stormed the house from the main door...

Once inside, Gupta immediately had his rifle at shoulder level and pointing forward into the murky smoke filled room. He could hear the crashing noises from the other rooms as his other men were also clearing out the building. There was no way of knowing whether anybody had in fact been in this building, but procedure was procedure. This was a single storey house with no staircase. If there had been any booby-traps, they had been destroyed by the explosion of the grenade. Visibility was down to few feet as the smoke hung around in the rooms. Gupta walked forward with another soldier directly behind him into the last room...

“Movement!â€

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Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2008 00:44

D Singh So what you envison is that some one will ship in stuff just like after 1962 and that India will fight with that? And why would other powers do that? BTW do you know the strings that came after 1962? Please read K Subramanyam's works to see how bad they were and how India got rid of them.


One cant crow in borrowed feathers.

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Postby deovratsingh » 16 Apr 2008 01:18

Ramana,

I wonder why not? Given right economic and financial incentives, they have evry thing to gain. It's same way as Kuwanitis and Arabs financed Iraqis in 1981 against Iranians and even fench supplied Iraqis with ammunition, Superentedards fighters and Helicopters on loan? If Russians are the biggest Indian allies, then I don't see any reason for them not to help Indians. Plus they Russians, Americans and French ( the arm merchants) would benefit most, than to see both countries in ruins after nuclear exchange? Hence this strategy is based on the fact these superpowers ( so called brokers of peace), would do everything to prevent nuclear conflicts. It is not in ones' interest. I chose MIG 29 SMT, because Indians were most familiar with MIGs and mirage 2000. Most of the airforces train fighter pilots in 1.5 to 2 ratio, so in war tiem they can get out 1.5 to 2.0 sorties from the same aircraft, after quick maintenance. I have also explained the rationale for help( in the response to Mr. Sud's and Malay's comments), which you probably missed it. I am going repaste it here, for your analysis-

Dear Mr. Sud and Malay:

I apologise , for length of my post, for being so long. However it was my final post for rationale and conclusion of the "worst case scenario- The sinking of carriers". I do agree with you it is cumbersome to read the long posts as well. I would like to point out following points-

1. Such a massive aid/ help to India amounted to only 40-45 Billion Dollars in 2012. Looking at Indian economy, Gross GDP was approaching 1 trillion dollars in 2007. With conservative 7.5 to 8% growth rate Indian economy would approach almost 2 Trillion dollars with almost 500 to 600 Billion dollars in Forex reserve ?. Hence this aid was less than 2% of GDP, was not a gamble for either Russians or Americans. However basis for the help was not based upon claculation of $$ amount, but rather, what would had been consequence ( to the world )of worst case scenario of Nuclear exchange with Chinese?

2. Threat of Nuclear brinkman ship is not new to the world. It had been experienced in 1945( resulting in Japanese Surrender), in 1960's during Cuban Missile Crisis, (resulting in withdrawl of Russian Missiles from Cuba), In 1971, by Americans ( Nixon), against India during India- Pak war ( and subsequent pressure of Russians on India to conclude war soon, and not complete the capture of all the Kashmir), and last one by PINKIS/ PUKIS in
2001 against India,( and subsequent American Pressure on India, not to invade PAKIs).

We all know in nuclear exchange, no one is winner, however after math would had put whole humanity to shame, as it would have brought human sufferings to unimaginable level, and economic human losses, which could not be measured in even BillionsX Billions X Trillions of Dollars. The 40-50 Billion Dollars of help was a drop in ocean, India would have written check next day for this massive help.

3. We also know if you carry or keep Guns, then you intend to use it if some one is coming to kill yoy or rob your house( i.e when time comes?) There is more chances of nuclear exchanges with any country based upon mistrust and miscalculations, than after rational analysis. If a line has been crossed for Nuclear Thresh hold, then they would be used. If defense minister perceived, that India and China are going to dismember India and take away Kashmir and Punjab in west, and North-East India on Eastern Front, then in the defense minister's view this threshhold has been crossed?

4. Malay- Military help on massive scale and sharing Intel is not new( e.g Americans to Russians and British in WW II, to India in 1962, British again in Falk Lands, Russia to India in 1971, Americans to Israelis in 1973, Russian to India resulting in Operation Blue Star). If your friend, with whom you have treaty, to protect each other, is not going to help you, then who else? As a Super power you would have problem with credibility. Lease of two three additional Akulas to India and 200 MIG29 SMT and 60 SU30 are less than 20 Billion Dollars)

5. Choosing between India and China is not easy one. But if you analyze reccent US strategic thinking, they are quite concerned about Chinese' military capabilities. Every one would be concerned about fighting Chinese and confronting them directly. But India had no choice but to fight it out, below Nuclear thresh hold? They would always chose India, over India.They would sell or allow to sell high tech military stuff to India, than China, which is their strategic competitor.

6.There is economic interest and then there is military one. If you have to chose between them and you have only one choice, you would most likely to chose your military's interest first. America can always build its business, later on.

7. Electronic war fare capabilities are something, which are kept secret. Once your adversary knows them, they become in effective.You come to know them only once a while, when they are used. Israelis have used them successfully against Syrians in 1981, making their SAM batteries useless in Bekka Valley, by using E3 Sentries and killing their Radars by Anti radiation missiles. They used the Tactis to knock out suspected Syrian nuclear sites in 2007, whch no one has used them, except Americans ( against Iraqui's in Desert storm I and Against Serbians). I am not aware if IAF used this technique against PUKI's or even if they have this Tech?

Lastly, as I said earlier, I did not mean to interrupt or derail, Vivek's and Shankar's very interesting scenarios, which I love reading. My conclusion of scenario was culmination of " only worst case scenario". If I did so, then my apologies to you all.

Regards,

DSingh.





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Postby Malay » 16 Apr 2008 20:42

ramana wrote:D Singh So what you envison is that some one will ship in stuff just like after 1962 and that India will fight with that? And why would other powers do that? BTW do you know the strings that came after 1962? Please read K Subramanyam's works to see how bad they were and how India got rid of them.


One cant crow in borrowed feathers.


Would you please recommend the best ones as well as give some links Ramana?

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Postby Hari Sud » 17 Apr 2008 04:52

Can I pose you learned guys questions vis-a-vis China.

If China's hold over Tibet is permanently weakened by restive population;
who will they blame?

Dalai Lama or India for hosting him


Then again, if Chinese wish to fight a shooting war with India in next two years, what venue will they choose?

Twang Tract or Bay of Bengal/Indian Ocean.

Once again, Should India fight for retaining Twang or protect the Siliguri neck. Chinese if find stiff resistance in Twang will react across Chumbi Valley and come hurtling down Nathula Pass. That road which was supposed to be trade route in fact become a dangerous weakness India's defences.

Can Vivek Ahuja try is next scenario for Chumbi/Nathu La axis

Cheers


Hari

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Postby Sudhanshu » 17 Apr 2008 11:08

Shankar, please keep us updated about situation at sea :) ASAP

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Postby gopal.suri » 17 Apr 2008 12:38

Hope the shark does not eat the kitkat. Shankar, bring her in one piece, I am taking her for a cuppa.

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Postby Shankar » 17 Apr 2008 15:25

VOLGA NIGHT FLIGHT-INS RAJALI -ARKONAM -0000 HRS - DAY 3

Commander Mohit Patel was visibly nervous as the ground crew laboriously loaded the long and heavy air launched BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles on to specially strengthened and designed under wing pylons. The five other bears of his flight were similarly armed up each with a load of 4 of the deadly cruise missiles each. They were allâ€

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Postby Shankar » 17 Apr 2008 15:46

NAVAL AIR STATION-INS KADAMBA –KARWAR –KARNATAKA-0030 HRS

The six Tupolov 22 M3 crouched menacingly in their underground hanger cut in to the rock face surrounding the sprawling naval base. They have never been seen in public from the day of induction ,and not likely to be seen in next 5 years .They never took part in the star studded republic day fly pasts and never flew in day time . The practiced only in night against the Su 30 mkis of IAF, out in the Arabian seas at dead of night away from the commercial air ways. For most of Indian public they simply did not exist.
Purchased at the same time as Goroshkov and the Akulas ,like the Akulas theye were also not meant for public display –they were the hidden cards of navy .Capable of nuclear as well as devastating long range maritime strike ,to day they were being armed up for a combat mission for the first time .
Commander Malikaarjun Rao will lead the flight of six back fires each carrying upto four Brahmos anti ship cruise missiles - a more or less sure death to at least 12-16 of the PLAN invasion fleet once the Tu 22 s get into missile launch range .Time was running out for many out in the gulf of Thailand.

P
roject Seabird, christened INS (Indian Naval Ship) Kadamba, will be the first operational base with a port controlled exclusively by the Navy, allowing it to position and manoeuvre its operational fleet without worrying about the movement of merchant vessels. The Navy's existing bases, including its two operational ones in Mumbai and Vishakhapatnam, are located in enclaves within commercial ports, making for an unsuitable situation especially in times of war. The Rs.35,000-crore fully integrated INS Kadamba is expected to be the biggest naval base this side of the Suez. The base will provide the Navy with the much-needed depth of defence at sea. Although initially it will only have a plethora of land assets, it will only be a matter of time before it gets its share of operational assets (ships) and their command. By the end of the year, the Navy plans to base around 10 ships of the surface fleet - mainly of diesel and gas turbine design, which include missile destroyers, missile frigates, missile corvettes, auxiliary ships (such as survey ships and tankers), and offshore patrol vessels. This figure will be increased to 30 in a phased manner by reallocating vessels that are now based at the overcrowded Mumbai base. The final configuration would of course depend on how serious the Naval High Command is about decongesting Mumbai and on the availability of repair facilities at Kadamba's fledgling Naval Ship Repair Yard (NSRY). Indications are that the more recent acquisitions of the Navy, especially of Russian make (such as the Abhay (Pauk II) Class corvettes), or of Russian design, will be based at Karwar. INS Kadamba will allow naval ships to come in, be berthed, shiplifted, dry-docked, repaired and turned around - all crucial requirements if the Navy is to maintain the hull and structure of its 150-odd surface ships, support vessels and submarines in a high state of sea worthiness.

Given its potential and size, INS Kadamba could also become an independent command, or even be part of a tri-services command. According to Commodore K.P. Ramachandran, Naval Officer-in-Charge and Station Commander (Karwar) (he will also be INS Kadamba's first Commanding Officer), the base will be headed by the Flag Officer Commanding (Karwar), who will be tasked by the Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Western Naval Command. Commodore Sridhar Karnik, Commander, Project Seabird, said: "Right now our tooth-to-tail ratio is low. We have created the basic infrastructure - the harbour, anchorage, accommodation, roads - now we need the add-ons. Once that is done we can get our ships and launch them."
Spread over 11,200 acres (4,480 hectares), the base will encompass a 26-kilometre stretch along the high water line of the seafront from Karwar Head in the north, through the Baitkol, Kamath, Binaga, Kwada and Belekeri Bays. It will, for most part, be sandwiched between National Highway 17 in the east and the Arabian Sea in the west. Karwar, with its bays and islands, has always been thought of as an ideal site for locating a naval base. The sea is deep less than half a mile from the coast, making berthing and navigation easy and the need for dredging minimal. The tidal conditions are such that there is little scope for siltation. Offering natural protection from wave action is the Binaga Bay, stretching out into the open sea from Karwar Head, a rocky promontory in the north, and the Tadri river in the south. Also providing cover to the bay are the Anjadip, Arge Button and Round islands. Karwar's hilly terrain provides excellent camouflage to ground installations. And crucially, the extent of land available will not only enable the Navy to disperse its forces, a necessity in times of an attack, but enable any future expansion of the base.


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Postby Shankar » 18 Apr 2008 16:52

EASTERN NAVAL COMMAND –VIZAG -0100 HRS

Vice admiral Prakash Rao at the latest infra red satellite photos and the synthetic radar images taken by a Russian satellite and forwarded to him from naval head quarters .Side by side he placed the daylight images received through Tech Sar and it was obvious the PLAN invasion fleet have made significant increase in their approach speed across the gulf of Thailand ,so as to enter quickly the Singapore strait /Malacca strait where the heavy commercial traffic will make any kind of concerted attack impossible. Once in the Andamans sea they will get adequate cover from land based Sukhois in Myanmar .

The Chinese invasion fleet appears to have changed sailing tactics. No longer where they sailing in box formation with troop ships in the centre and destroyers surrounding it with frigates forming the outer most screen . According to latest imagery the PLAN fleet has stretched out in a long line with the lead elements being the 4 sovermanny class destroyers followed by the large fleet of troops ships and landing ship tanks and the rear coverage provided by the frigates.Four other destroyers along with six numbers frigates were acting as the outer screen of the convoy Helos from the destroyers were operating round the clock with active sonar as per reports received from one of the akulas operating in
Destroyers:
• Changsha (161)
• Nanning (162)
• Nanchang (163)
• Guilin (164)
• Zhanjiang (165)
• Zhuhai (166)
• Shenzhen (167)
• Guangzhou (168)
• Wuhan (169)
Frigates:
• Changde (509)
• Maoming (551)
• Yibin (552)
• Shaoguan (553)
• Anshun (554)
• Zhaotong (555)
• Jishou (557)
• Beihai (558)
• Kangding (559)
• Dongguan (560)
• Shantou (561)
• Jiangmen (562)
• Foshan (563)
• Yichang (564)
• Yulin (565)
• Yuxi (566)
• Xiangfan (567)
Landing ships:
• 10 Type 072II (Yuting class) LST
• 7 Type 072 (Yukan class) LST
• 4 Qiongsha class troop transport ships
• 1 hospital ship
4 Yudao class


Ops ready status have come in from Karwar ,Vizag, Arkonam, Car Nicobar as well as navy ships and submarines operating in the strike zone .

The giant LCD display over head was displaying the current status of all Indian navy ships and submarines in the gulf of Thailand area except the submarines .Tele text data from IAF stations now under operational control of the navy were also streaming below the screen . The aircraft availability status was for the first time very good

CAR NIC - 24 SU 30 MKI R-73/R-77/R-27ER UNDER FUELLING
PORT BLAIR - 1 PHALCON PLUS 2 IL-78 MKI READY
KARWAR - 4 TU-22 M3 UNDER FUELLING
ARKONAM - 6 X TU 142 UNDER FUELLING





IN PACIFIC

INS VIKRAMADITYA - AIR CRAFT AVAILABILITY 80%
INS VIRAT - AIRCRAFT AVAILABILITY 55%

The smell of freshly brewed filter coffee filled the as the tray of cheering brew came in. Vice Admiral Rao decided to have one last word before giving the green signal to the devastating strike force now being assembled along east and western coast and strike if successful can change the complexion of not just this conflict but relation between the two neighboring giants for ever.

As the flag officer commanding eastern naval command finished his second cup of freshly brewed filter coffee, the confirmation clearing the strike mission came in from naval headquarters . Unknown to but suspected by vice admiral Rao ,Indian strategic command elements were put on high alert –just in case.

All along the eastern coast PAD/AAD units switched on their radars at maximum power and anti missile missiles were once again checked up by their computers –ready for immediate launch .Modified green pine radars all along the coast watched their respective sectors intently .Up in the space several Indian geo synchronous satellites turned on their infrared sensors directed on mainland china’s known missile launch centers. Down under the oceans both the Indian Akulas tok out the torpedoes from the tubes and replaced them with some thing far more sinster. And finally Agni 3 launchers in central and eastern India powered up as they went to highest possible alert level on receipt of special code from defense ministry coming to them via dedicated underground fiber optic cable.

Prakash Rao though one last time before passing on the mission activation code to his executive assistants all senior navy commanders .A pre decided complete set of directives started being issued through navy’s own fibre optic data link for on shore units and via satellite to all offshore units .

OPERATION DRAGON DEATH was under way atlast

asbchakri
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Postby asbchakri » 18 Apr 2008 18:29

Down under the oceans both the Indian Akulas tok out the torpedoes from the tubes and replaced them with some thing far more sinster. And finally Agni 3 launchers in central and eastern India powered up as they went to highest possible alert level on receipt of special code from defense ministry coming to them via dedicated underground fiber optic cable.



What about SSBN (ATV) with its AGNI3 SLBM :twisted:

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Postby PaulJI » 18 Apr 2008 22:49

Shankar wrote:EASTERN NAVAL COMMAND –VIZAG -0100 HRS

Vice admiral Prakash Rao at the latest infra red satellite photos and the synthetic radar images taken by a Russian satellite and forwarded to him from naval head quarters .Side by side he placed the daylight images received through Tech Sar and it was obvious the PLAN invasion fleet have made significant increase in their approach speed across the gulf of Thailand ,so as to enter quickly the Singapore strait /Malacca strait where the heavy commercial traffic will make any kind of concerted attack impossible. ...


Shankar, you've not explained what Indonesia, Singapore & Malaysia are doing in this. Are they joining in the war on Chinas side, against India? Or surrendering to China? Because the Malacca Straits are territorial waters, & the internationally recognised right of innocent passage, recognised by the littoral states, does not apply to warships of belligerents in wartime. If the littoral states are claiming neutral status, they must close their waters to the Chinese fleet.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 19 Apr 2008 03:09

THE ASSAULT ON TAMU
MYANMAR
CONVOY 2-ALPHA, 23 INFANTRY DIVISION
1510 IST FRIDAY


“We need to get on the highest rooftop you can find around here, immediately.â€

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 19 Apr 2008 04:27

THE SKIES ABOVE TAMU
1525 IST FRIDAY


Ten thousand feet above the grinding, smoke and dirt covered ground war, the air was pure and the skies were clear. For the two pilots and the single WSO sitting in the cockpits of the two Mirage-2000s, BLUE-ONE and BLUE-TWO, with their dark visors lowered to protect against the bright sunlight, the stress was relatively lower. And the difference in tone of the voices between the FAC calling them from below and their voices heading below visibly reflected this fact. The flight leader was the one to respond to the FAC’s radio contact:

“This is BLUE-ONE. We are reading you Five-Five-Five. We are on station and ready to roll. Overâ€


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