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Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part X

kaangeya
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Postby kaangeya » 12 Mar 2008 21:47

Depth 450 meters? >33 knots; Incredible

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Postby Sudhanshu » 13 Mar 2008 01:55

parshuram wrote:Shankar

No Offence , but this last scnario seems a bit comical . it would have been more realistic if any of the Kilo woukld also have detected the Akula as Captial iyer was planning to fire the torpedoes at a range of 200 meteres only .

wonder if indian kilos when faced with PLAN Jiang Class SSn's would undergo same fate .

it would have been better if out of three one would have detected akula amd we cold have witness Counter measures capability of shark too


I agree too.

Well, we can assume, it was damn damn lucky day for Akula. :)

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Postby mdhoat » 13 Mar 2008 02:43

Sudhanshu wrote:
parshuram wrote:Shankar

No Offence , but this last scnario seems a bit comical . it would have been more realistic if any of the Kilo woukld also have detected the Akula as Captial iyer was planning to fire the torpedoes at a range of 200 meteres only .

wonder if indian kilos when faced with PLAN Jiang Class SSn's would undergo same fate .

it would have been better if out of three one would have detected akula amd we cold have witness Counter measures capability of shark too


I agree too.


Well, we can assume, it was damn damn lucky day for Akula. :)


I second that, the turn of events are way too pro-Indian and Indians don't seem to be doing anything wrong at the moment. One kilo vs one Akula is plausible but all 3 kilo failing to detect something the size of Akula at such close range just seems luck raise to the power three. Keep up the good work Shankar, but just a request though, in the future confrontations, please make both sides get equal chances and dose of luck. Honestly I am dreading the fate of Indian kilos if they get cornered by any Chinese SSN without any other aerial ASW support.

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Postby gopal.suri » 13 Mar 2008 08:03

Honestly I am dreading the fate of Indian kilos if they get cornered by any Chinese SSN without any other aerial ASW support.


Then we will send Igorr with 50 mb zipped downloads with brochures of kilos in russian, to the sinking crew. :roll:

Though Chinese have a nuclear propulsion, does it have matching sonar, BMS and torpedoes?

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Postby mdhoat » 13 Mar 2008 12:11

Shankar a quick question?

I am kinda confused. In actual combat, Will those 3 Chinese kilos go together so compactly packed. I mean won't they be moving in distanced formation so as to maximize the detection zone and thus killing radius. It makes strategic sense, they will be better poised to pounce on the enemy if one is attacked by surprise, and if needed, will have ample room to execute maneuvers to play hide and seek with the attacking units.

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Postby rkrao » 13 Mar 2008 12:41

probably shankar saar is in superstar rajni hangover :wink:
3 kilos in one shot,,enna jujubi
naa orru kilo kill panno 100 kilo kill panna madri :D
pardon my tamil

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Postby Mihir.D » 13 Mar 2008 12:53

Guys,

Take a chill pill. Its the writers prerogative to create situations as he wants. Besides it all comes down to training and the electronics on board the subs also.
In Rajni mode the Akula would have fired one torp and fired another one to split it into 3 parts. So 1 Akula using 1 torp to take out 3 subs. :lol: :twisted:

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Postby mdhoat » 13 Mar 2008 12:58

rkrao wrote:probably shankar saar is in superstar rajni hangover :wink:
3 kilos in one shot,,enna jujubi
naa orru kilo kill panno 100 kilo kill panna madri :D
pardon my tamil


rkrao no fun please. We should appreciate Shankar for investing so much time and effort in writing these scenarios. I know its so easy to sit on the side and critique someone's serious effort (like our DDM :wink:). Shankar no hard feelings bro.

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Postby rkrao » 13 Mar 2008 13:05

:) hey sorry about that guys,,,,,,just fun intended,,,,,not at shankar saar ofcourse,,,,

Shankar saar,,,
Please ignore my post,,

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Postby rajamanic » 13 Mar 2008 21:12

naa orru kilo kill panno 100 kilo kill panna madri


:rotfl:

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Postby Sudhanshu » 13 Mar 2008 21:31

Mihir.D wrote:In Rajni mode the Akula would have fired one torp and fired another one to split it into 3 parts. So 1 Akula using 1 torp to take out 3 subs. :lol: :twisted:


:lol: :lol: :lol: cannot be any more funnier.


(just to add to this illogical discussion :) )
May be there can be other aspect, since we all know reliability of Chinese goods in market, so that might have direct implications on Chinese crew training.

---------------

Joke aside, Shankar you are doing really great job. We all really appreciate that.

--------

Hey guys, don't push him too much, otherwise, he will sink a major Indian warship in next post.

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Postby Sudhanshu » 13 Mar 2008 21:32

rajamanic wrote:
naa orru kilo kill panno 100 kilo kill panna madri


:rotfl:



is it possible to translate that.

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Postby dhruvarka » 13 Mar 2008 22:43

For all the critics of Shankar's last scenario,

According to Federation of American Scientists, Akula performance is Max Speed: 28-35 kt submerged. Max Diving Depth: 1475 feet= 465.8 m. Crush Depth 622 - 682 m.

Chinese Navy operates on centralised comand & control so all the subs will be within Underwater telephone (Gertrude) range of the commander of the flotilla. Otherwise they would have sent three subs from three different directions to attack the Indian CV.

In my opinion, given the centralised nature of enemy operations, it is not difficult for an Akula to knock off three Kilos.

Furhter, I have read several scenarios by Tom Clancy that were more incredulous than that being weaved up by Shankar so far.

Shankar, please do not get diverted by the side issues and keep 'em comming.

Regards and apologies for any hurt feelings.

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Postby Mihir.D » 13 Mar 2008 22:55

Guys,

We don't tolerate any type of criticism of our writers on this thread. Some of you said bad things today and we missed out on our today's dose of the war.

Any members who dare say anything evil or bad will be banned or not allowed to read any further scenarios .

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Postby Sudhanshu » 14 Mar 2008 05:41

Mihir.D wrote:Guys,

We don't tolerate any type of criticism of our writers on this thread. Some of you said bad things today and we missed out on our today's dose of the war.

Any members who dare say anything evil or bad will be banned or not allowed to read any further scenarios .


I think that was not criticism in any aspect.

I am confident Shankar would have taken it in positive and healthy way.
We never failed to appreciate his work in past and even now.

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Postby mdhoat » 14 Mar 2008 07:20

Sudhanshu wrote:
Mihir.D wrote:Guys,

We don't tolerate any type of criticism of our writers on this thread. Some of you said bad things today and we missed out on our today's dose of the war.

Any members who dare say anything evil or bad will be banned or not allowed to read any further scenarios .


I think that was not criticism in any aspect.

I am confident Shankar would have taken it in positive and healthy way.
We never failed to appreciate his work in past and even now.


Mihir this is a discussion forum and not some library where we are only allowed to read and not share our thoughts. The credibility of security discussion forums like Bharat Rakshak solely depends on the ability of its members to discuss something intelligently and present their views for further discussion. If you differ from our opinions or concerns , and have something better to say, then just say it.

Every sensible brfite acknowledges and appreciates the efforts Sharkar is putting in the scenario. Just as Sudhanshu said, I too believe Shankar will take all these discussion and differing opinions in the positive and healthy way. No hard feelings Shankar.

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Postby Mihir.D » 14 Mar 2008 08:58

mdhoat,
I was just kidding. Just like Shankar ignores all the comments we out here everything else also should be taken with a chuckle. Its the only thread were guys like me can post :lol: and won't be booed off.

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Postby parshuram » 14 Mar 2008 11:52

dhruvarka wrote:For all the critics of Shankar's last scenario,

According to Federation of American Scientists, Akula performance is Max Speed: 28-35 kt submerged. Max Diving Depth: 1475 feet= 465.8 m. Crush Depth 622 - 682 m.

Chinese Navy operates on centralised comand & control so all the subs will be within Underwater telephone (Gertrude) range of the commander of the flotilla. Otherwise they would have sent three subs from three different directions to attack the Indian CV.

In my opinion, given the centralised nature of enemy operations, it is not difficult for an Akula to knock off three Kilos.

Furhter, I have read several scenarios by Tom Clancy that were more incredulous than that being weaved up by Shankar so far.

Shankar, please do not get diverted by the side issues and keep 'em comming.

Regards and apologies for any hurt feelings.
well it is a question that what plan is more effective for a commander to induce maximum loss
to his enemy and to take minimum itself . it the collectiveness makes the subs so vulernable the why then heck will they move together . centralised or non centralised . attack from different directions and that too against the most potent asset of the enemy would have been the first choice for PLAN Comanders

also PLAN must be knowing that How dreaded Akulla can be for them and give me every reason o beleive trhat PLAN SSN 's should be out to hunt the only SSN with enemy and cripple it's deep enduring capability

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Postby Shankar » 14 Mar 2008 11:54

INS VIJAY -AKULA 2 -SOME WHERE IN PHILLIPINES SEA

Captain Iyer was satisfied with the days work as he sailed full speed awy from the recent kill zone where the three PLAN subs rested quietly in the deep water grave in a mass of twisted burnt metal , It was a risky operation but not an incredible one ,but for that he knew people have to undersatnd the true highly classified capability of of an Akula 2

Designed to take on the US carrier force with its formidable ASW platforms on surface on air and under water -Akula had to be very fast as reflected in its top speed close to 40 knots rather than 35 knots as mentioned in its specification sheet ,its super responsive power plant giving it an unmatched acceleration compared to any submarine in he world,its lethal arsnel of standard 533 as well as super heavy 625 mm torpedoes with as much as 900 kg high explosive warhead ,]ts double hull and its inherent reserve buoyancy,its multiple layer of acoustic dampeners which included but not limited to tiles ,its array of non acoustic sensor suite and the advanced fire control computer which fused the information from both the acoustic and non acoustic sensor and then plotted a fire solution for the torpedoes or the missiles depending on the situation .

In short Akula 2 leased by India and presently under his command was capable of taking on a USN carrier force and had the capability to sink a Nimitz class carrier a fact acknowledged by senior defense planners in Pentagon behind closed doors giving rise to the development of Virginia and sea wolf class

The shark. The most feared creature in the sea. Silent and lethal, this killing machine of nature can strike at a moment’s notice. The Russian word for shark is akula. In NATO, Akula is the designation given to the newest and most technologically advanced attack submarine of the Russian Navy. The Akula class submarine is Russia’s answer to the American Los Angeles class fast attack subs. Common opinion holds that Russian submarines are noisy and technologically inferior to their American and British counterparts. Expert opinion, however, knows what lies behind the traditional Russian veil of secrecy. With the Akula, the former Soviet Union has caught the US in the undersea arms race.he Akula class nuclear submarine is officially deemed Project 971 Shuka B (shuka is an aggressive breed of fresh water pike). Soviet naval engineers designed Akula as the follow-up to the Victor and Sierra classes to set a new standard in stealth and serve as the vanguard of the modern Russian Navy. First of her class, the K-480 (named Bars, Russian for panther) was laid down in 1982 at the Komsomol'sk Shipyard on the Amur River (Eastern Russia) under the authority of the Malakhit Design Bureau. The Soviet Navy launched Bars in 1983 and commissioned her in December 1984. Most of the first eight Akula class submarines were built in Komsomol’sk until activities there ceased in 1993. The remaining submarines have been built or are under construction at the Sevmash Shipyard in Severodvinsk (Northern Russia near Arkhangel’sk), now the primary shipyard for the Russian Navy.

When discussing the actual physical characteristic of a piece of Russian military hardware, one must always keep in mind the degree of security the government imposes on information. It is generally believed that an Akula displaces an estimated 7500 tons surfaced, 9100 tons submerged, with a length of 108-113 meters and a beam of 13.5 meters. Intelligence believes propulsion is derived from a pressurized water reactor with a model OK-650 b high-density reactor core, generating a total of 200 MWt and a shaft power of 43,000 hp. The uranium fuel is highly enriched, producing substantially more power than American submarine reactors. Some sources credit Akula with two reactors. Thomas Jandl, director of Bellona USA (a Norwegian-based environmental group), says, "My colleagues tell me that the Akula has only one reactor, as opposed to older Russian subs, which had two. The Akula does not follow the two-reactor tradition." Whichever the case may be, the Akula is capable of underwater speeds of 35 knots (claimed) and this, too, may be a conservative rating.

The Akula uses a double hull construction. The living spaces, torpedo tubes, and most of the machinery exists within the stronger inner hull. The ballast tanks and specially adapted gear are located between the inner and outer hulls. Double hull construction calls for greaterakula propulsion requirements and includes limber holes for the free-flooding sections between the hulls. These holes are an inherent source of unwanted noise. Akula class submarines, however, incorporate limber hole covers that can be closed to reduce or eliminate this tattletale. Offsetting the extra weight, double hull construction dramatically increases the reserve buoyancy of a submarine by as much as three times over that of a single hull craft. The greater capacity for absorbing enemy fire and still being capable of reaching the surface must have a very good effect on the morale of the 80 crewmen.

An Akula has a very distinctive profile; a broad beam, sleek lines, and the conspicuous stern pod which houses a hydrophonic towed array. Hull material is high strength steel. The Akula does not have a titanium hull after many problems with that material during early construction. Diving depth approaches 500 meters, possibly ten percent more, placing the Akula ahead of the American Los Angeles class. The engineers have taken great care to blend the sail into the hull producing superior hydrodynamic qualities. The result makes American submarines look blocky and piecemeal in comparison. Decreased water resistance adds knots to an already potent powerplant

he combination of a high-density reactor and streamlined hull contours make the Akula class capable of speeds that outperform NATO submarines. Careful study of Akulas captured on film reveals another velocity weapon. Parallel sections of small-diameter tubing running down the hull are thought to be a system that, when the need arises, can emit a polymer substance that may greatly enhance underwater speeds under combat conditions.

The Akula is quite capable of gunning as well as running. Armed with four 533mm and four 650mm torpedo tubes, Akula deploys twice as much ordnance as the Los Angeles class. Loadout consists of twenty SET 53 torpedoes, four SS-N-21 nuclear cruise missiles, four SS-N-15 nuclear torpedoes, and ten ultra-heavyweight SET 65 ASUW torpedoes. Both the SET 53 and SET 65 torpedoes are wireguided and possess active, passive, and wake-homing capabilities. The SET 65 pack a 900kg punch, enough to take out a carrier with one unit.

Significant modifications were made to the original Project 971 Akula design beginning with the fifth unit. Classified as "Akula II", these modifications include a four-meter extension that may accommodate VLS tubes and advanced technology sensors.

Known countermeasures are the standard gas-producing decoy units, a holdover from the German Pillenwaffer, sonar jamming, and an ingenious acoustic decoy commonly referred to as the nixie. The nixie is a small torpedo that emulates the sound signature of the parent sub. Once launched, the nixie veers from the submarine’s track at three knots. The emissions coming from the nixie obscures the actual noise generated by the creeping submarine. While the tracking submarine is deceived into tracking and launching on a decoy, the Akula may silently alter course and counterattack. At the very least, a nixie will force the NATO submarine to track multiple targets, uncertain which is the Akula.

However, even more intriguing is the layman’s theory that the newer Russian subs can actually operate at lower sound levels than documented. Learning of the spectacular achievements of US sub quiteness from the Walker revelations (see below), Soviet military doctrine may dictate that all submarines routinely emit a level of noise that exceeds their minimum capability. The theory follows that NATO submarines track, record, and catalogue the Akulas at these artificial sound levels and US naval intelligence may be misled into believing that the profiles represent the best the opposition can do. In the event of actual conflict, doctrine would then direct the Russian submarines to shift into a combat mode of silent running and eliminate the false noise levels, effectively disappearing from NATO’s view. "The submarine versus submarine engagement profile is a lot more complicated than the simple comparison of radiated noise, which is too often used to oversimplify relative effectiveness," a Navy expert said. "Other equally important factors include tactical handling and sonar performance, and even non-acoustic sensors must be taken into account."

As we have seen, the Russian naval mindset stresses performance over stealth. The Akula follows a line of boats that can outdive, outrun, and outshoot American subs in most categories. The notable exception is quietness. One American submarine captain described the acoustic profile of a seventies Russian sub as similar to that of a "threshing machine". American submarines are capable of a highly touted degree of akulastealth that no Russian sub can match. That is, until Akula. Western intelligence experts had expected the US lead in submarine acoustics to last well into the 21st century. The advent of the Akula class has many NATO military planners convinced that US subs have lost the advantage they enjoyed since the end of the Second World War.

To overtake the Americans, Russian engineers adopted and improved the machinery rafting designs that had proven successful in damping the turbine noise on American nuclear submarines. However, as one high-ranking American officer cautiously stated during an interview, the Russian technology may achieve a high level of noise suppression initially but degrades after service. The signature of an Akula grows more prominent with age, whether through inferior design, materials, or maintenance.

Other reported Russian design innovations included three separate anechoic coatings on the hull. The most significant achievements in reducing radiated noise were obtained through espionage. The spying efforts of American naval personnel John Walker and radioman Jerry Whitworth made the Soviet Union’s military chiefs aware of how far advanced American submarines were. Substantial efforts to marginalize the sound profile of the Akula can be traced to intelligence gained from the Walker spy ring. A separate but equally empowering sequence of events for the Russians was the illegal sale of propeller milling technology by the Japanese firm Toshiba and the Norwegian firm Kongsberg. The combined results generated a steep drop in broadband acoustic noise profile

Although Western military buffs are often quick to dismiss the former Soviet Union as technologically inept, the Akula class has raised serious doubts of who is leading whom.

akulaThis turnaround was painfully evident when US officials recently acknowledged for the first time that US submarines could not readily locate an Akula submarine operating off the coast of the USA. "It is difficult to find the most advanced Russian Akula class submarines when they operate at tactical speed or less," Admiral Jeremy Boorda said. Other military experts sounded the alarm as early as 1988. Anthony Batista, senior staff member of the Armed Forces Committee declared, "The Akula is the best submarine in the world today." A recent report from the Office of Naval Intelligence noted that the improved Akula submarines could indeed surpass the quieting of the Los Angeles class at tactical speeds. On August 9, 1995, during a lobbying effort on behalf of the Seawolf and the following Virginia class submarines, retired Vice Admiral E.A. Burkhalter announced that the $7 billion-per-year Russian program had produced "the Akula submarine, which is quieter than Seawolf." In an effort to raise public awareness, Martin Marietta, a leading defense contractor, ran ads featuring the Akula class in a number of newspapers including the San Diego Union-Tribune. While it may be difficult to separate the hype military supporters chronically use to "talk up a potential threat, in order to justify their own building programs" from the actual capabilities obscured by Russian secrecy, one impression remains: America can no longer claim uncontested dominance of the oceanic strata.



Captain Iyer of course knew all these and much more and so did the eastern naval command when they decided to deploy the shark so far from home base . When a kilo meets an akula -there can be only one outcome -swift and sure death of the kilos unless the Akula commander was both drunk and stupid .

And Indian navy does not give command of its most potent nuclear attack submarine to stupid commanders ,chuckled Captain Iyre as looked intently at the latest oceansat photos dowloaded few hours back . He looked closely at the PLAN surface fleet approaching Virat Carrier group still outside missile strike range but getting close

- helmsman
make course 085 -speed 20 knots
-aye captain sir -course 085 -speed coming up to 20 knots
- make depth 350 meters - diving angle 15 degree
- diving angle 15 degree - making depth 350 meters -captain sir

The deck canted sharply below as the Russian shark of depth nosed down to the dar of the ocean where no one can reach and breach its veil of secrecy -its ability to kill at will.

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Postby niran » 14 Mar 2008 12:16

Folks did you notice your yak yaking has made Shanker to post an
explanation instead of the plot moving forward, in future Please!
Please! ..... you know what I mean.

chuckled Captain Iyre as looked intently at the latest oceansat photos dowloaded few hours back


you all know the real source of his mirth, noo?

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Postby gopal.suri » 14 Mar 2008 12:40

:roll:

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Postby Mihir.D » 14 Mar 2008 13:01

ajay pratap wrote:Folks did you notice your yak yaking has made Shanker to post an
explanation instead of the plot moving forward, in future Please!
Please! ..... you know what I mean.


Yeah..Why can't people just read and enjoy. This is not discussion thread. Just read and enjoy and get back to reality :lol:

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Postby sombhat » 14 Mar 2008 13:23

He He! So Captain Iyer gets access to BR in his quarters and has just visited the Millitary Scenarios thread. But I like his style of rebuttal. This should silence the Rajni types. :D

PS: If we can enjoy Rambo destroying a whole Russian army brigade, why not have one Akula get rid of all ding dong submarines.

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Postby Shankar » 14 Mar 2008 15:43

INS VIRAT – SOME WHERE IN CENTRAL PACIFIC


Typhoon Kong-rey (2010) On March 26, the Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) identified a broad area of low pressure in the Western North Pacific. It moved west-northwestward over the next few days, slowly gaining organization. According to the Japan Meteorological Agency, it became a tropical depression on March 30. The next day, the Joint Typhoon Warning Center issued a Tropical Cyclone Formation Alert due to an increased consolidation of the low-level circulation of the system. The JTWC issued its first warning on Tropical Depression 01W late that evening local time. As it continued to strengthen, the JTWC upgraded it to a tropical storm, the first of the season. The JMA followed suit, and named the system Kong-rey. The name was submitted by Cambodia, and refers to a character in a Khmer legend, which is also the name of a mountain.[3]
Kong-rey continued to organize and intensified into a severe tropical storm early the next morning local time. The JTWC then upgraded it to a typhoon on April 2. As the system took a more pole ward track towards the Northern Mariana Islands, the National Weather Service office in Guam noted that damaging winds were now not expected on the island. Elsewhere in the Marianas, preparations were made and flights were cancelled in anticipation of the typhoon. Kong-rey passed through the islands in the early hours of the morning on April 3 local time. The JMA upgraded Kong-rey to a typhoon later that afternoon, as it developed an eye. It strengthened slightly further before encountering wind shear and colder sea surface temperatures and was downgraded back to a severe tropical storm on April 4. As Kong-rey accelerated towards the northeast, it began undergoing extra tropical transition early on April 5 and the JTWC issued its final warning. The JMA issued its final warning on the morning of April 6 after it had completed extra tropical transition. No casualties or major damage was reported


Lt commander Vina Peter Finished her 3rd cup of black coffee served in plastic cup inside the pilot ready room .Outside a gale 4 wind was still lashing the flight deck and all flight operations were invariably canceled .The Met officer has promised better weather by tomorrow morning or late afternoon today depending on how the storm front moves after striking the distant midway atoll .

Intel reports have indicated a possible Su-27 strike as soon as the weather improves ,possibly taking off from the mainland china bases tomorrow morning . It was expected to be medium sized strike package about 4-6 aircraft with possibly an aerial refueller . Her task was to take on the invaders at BVR range along with 7 of her mates as far as possible from the carrier. Some assistance from Vikramaditya group was expected but not assured since they have just reported entering pacific fringes .

She knew very well her chances of taking on the mighty flankers on air to air combat .She knew only too well the possible outcome loaded heavily in favor of the PLAN aircrafts but then hers was not to question why .Her only chance lay in the Mig 29k s sailing in from the east

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Postby Sudhanshu » 14 Mar 2008 16:16

Shankar wrote:....unless the Akula commander was both drunk and stupid...


Very nicely put Shankar. :)

----
Well after reading your post, I like the style you answered the questions might have arised into readers mind. So, as it seems feedback was really helpful.
.. that is other story we got distracted and happen to remember Rajni for a while :)

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Postby rkrao » 14 Mar 2008 21:42

:roll:
Guys dont get distrated,,,lets focus on the scenario,,its getting very interresting 8)
once again thankyou shankar saar
rk

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Postby Rahul M » 15 Mar 2008 03:25

guys, one point that has been ignored is the fact that the kilos don't have a secondary sonar that can listen very effectively on the sides and back. (of course passive sonar isn't quiet like radar, so these won't be pure blind spots but effectiveness would obviously be lesser )
also coming from behind, any sub sound signature would probably be masked by the front sub's own prop noise.
this is precisely the reason the akula 2 has a tail mounted sonar.
given the akula is heading at the kilos from a 5 'o clock position(from my reading of the shankar's scenario), there remains a possibility that it would remain undetected for some time.

this is purely a matter of luck . in this unusual situation both the navy's subs are sailing away from the primary theater. the PLAN subs have to hurry towards the viraat. as a result IN subs have the chance to tail them from their blind spot.

the way to have countered this would have been to keep one kilo facing the ingress routes into the viraat theater in order to plug it.

unless the technology differential be very high, no sub would have the advantage against 3 subs in a face-off situation. therefore there is little chance of plan ssn's enjoying overwhelming superiority over IN ssk's.

cheers !!

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Postby Igorr » 15 Mar 2008 04:15

After some days of reading I shall allow to myself puting two pences for tech background. What I found in the Russian sources about (future) Indian Akulas:

SSN K-152 'Nerpa' together with additional unnamed SSN built in Komsomolsk on Amur for India belong to Project 971 Mk.3 or 'Gepard serial Shchukas'. On the West they are named Akula-III. Russia itself has only one from this the most advanced class of Shchuka: K-335 'Gepard'.

They have 13800 t full deadweight instead of 12870 t of Akula-II, modernized navigation, acoustis and hydraulics.
Max Deepness - 600 m
Working Deepness - 520 m

Velosity submerge - 33.5 knots
superficial - 11.2 kn
Crew - 73 (33 officers)
Autonomity - 100 days max
533 mm - 4 launchers
650 mm - 4 launchers

Current fleet of Pr.971:
K-263 'Delfin'
K-284 'Akula'
K-295 'Samara'
K-322 'Kashalot'
K-331 'Narval'
K-391 'Bratsk'
K-419 'Kuzbass'
K-154 'Tigr'
K-157 'Vepr'
K-317 'Pantera'
K-328 'Leopard'
К-337 'Kuguar'
K-461 'Volk'
K-480 'Ak Bars'
K-335 'Gepard'

Sources: 1) Rosoboron Export via http://www.navy.ru/news/vpk/?ELEMENT_ID=2645
2) V.Demyanovsky, A.Kotlobovsky "The Submerged Shield of USSR", Russian book.

June, 24, 2006 the submarine was launched. The tests of K-152 Nerpa were started June, 11 2007 in the open sea.

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Postby Anurag » 15 Mar 2008 04:18


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Postby Sudhanshu » 15 Mar 2008 08:36

:) Guys I was reading at wiki about Akula i.e. Typhoon class submarine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_class_submarine

and found this

...
High internal volume also allows Typhoon class submarines to provide good conditions for their crews, including rooms for relaxation, sauna and swimming pool..


:lol: just wondering is that really possible .. and for why?
Can anybody answer this.


P.S. Thanks to shankar we know exactly what Akula is. And how much it is important, make me feel proud that it will be part of our navy soon.

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Postby Rahul M » 15 Mar 2008 09:39

what you are talking about is the 33,000 tonnes SSBN which is said to be the most potent soviet ballistic missile sub ever and few doubt if even the USN BM boats compare favourably. (the wt can go upto/exceed that of the IAC !! ) :shock:

what you have done is quiet common :
from the same wiki source :--
[quote]
The Typhoon class was developed under Project 941 as the Russian Akula class (Ð
Last edited by Rahul M on 15 Mar 2008 20:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shankar » 15 Mar 2008 12:58

INS VIRAT-SOMEWHERE IN CENTRAL PACIFIC

Lt commander Vina Peter never stopped being amazed at her aircraft ,rather its tiny size particularly when compared to the Su-30 s of IAF even the Mig 29 s. She has practiced air defense missions with Indian flankers over the Arabian sea many times ,fighting a mock air defense battles and initially she was “blownâ€

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Postby Sudhanshu » 15 Mar 2008 13:12

Hey Rahul, thanks for the answer, I realized my error :)

Shankar, that is not fair, that was just a small post.

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Postby Igorr » 15 Mar 2008 13:27

Anurag wrote:Here's the baby..'Nerpa'

http://news.webshots.com/photo/25519984 ... 1724mHIokV
It's not 'Nerpa'. It's 'Vepr' ('Wild Boar') Akula-II class SSN. 'Nerpa' - is more advanced Akula-III class allready, slightely bigger SSN. This is 'Gepard', the first SSN in Akula-III class:
Image
http://www.podlodka.su/03/Substory/Foto ... _f02vi.php

To avoid mistake, I remember the Russian and NATO designation of two class nuclear submarines:
___________________Russian des.____________NATO des.
Project 971: SSN_____Щука-Б (Shchuka-B )______Akula (I, II, III)
Project 941: SSBN____Ð
Last edited by Igorr on 15 Mar 2008 13:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shankar » 15 Mar 2008 13:36

CLARKS AIRBASE- PHILLIPINES- AKULA FLIGHT -2 X Su 30 MKI
[quote]
The two Su-30 MKI s were getting ready for a “covert missionâ€

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Postby Shankar » 15 Mar 2008 16:21

[quote]the BrahMos collaboration came about when the Russians realized they had rupees lying in India, which they may not be able to repatriate after 2005. The Indian Navy and DRDO identified the Yakhont missile as suitable for future missions and as an excellent tri service and under water missile with potential.

Hence instead of merely importing the missiles from NPO Mash, a joint stock company was formed with joint investment from India via DRDO and Russia via their funds in India. In this manner BrahMos Aerospace could import missiles, equipment and personnel from Russia and the Russians got their rupees out as payment in dollars and their investment in India remained intact.

This example needs to be emulated for future requirements as well, for example the fast firing 30mm AK-630M-MR-123-02 guns and AA/Air Defence Artillery Systems for the three services. The Ordnance Factory Board can very well follow the example of BrahMos Aerospace and even Larsen and Tubro, which is looking to make Amur Class submarines in India, can investigate a similar arrangement.

Sayan Majumdar reports that after successful joint-development of the BrahMos ASCM (anti-ship cruise missile) the Indo-Russian scientists and defence manufacturers had again teamed up to resurrect the formidable Russian Novator KS-172 ultra-long-range AAM (air-to-air missile) project. Novator design bureau unveiled its mock-up KS-172 AAM, a projected 6 metre long, 750 kg, 400 km range AAM in early 1993 at an air-show in Abu Dhabi. It also made a short and sudden appearance at the Moscow Air-Show in late 1993, in anticipation of a very high-level military delegation.

The mock-up of the KS-172 underwent refinement and in the Moscow Air-Show appeared in many ways similar to the Buk (SA-11 Gadfly) SAM (surface-to-air Missile). Russian officials later hinted that air-carriage tests of SAMs had been carried out using a Sukhoi-27 “Flankerâ€Â

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Postby Sudhanshu » 16 Mar 2008 02:19

:) It seems to counter such weapons, in future AWACS could have to be equipped with CIWS kind of systems.

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Postby Shankar » 16 Mar 2008 13:02

Shanghai Dachang Airbase
31°19'N 121°25'E – Nanjing Military Region


It was a busy morning at the base. Two IL-78 tankers and also a pair of A-50 mainstays have been taken out of their heavily protected shelters and getting ready for extended combat mission .In the distance their escort of six Su-30 MKK stood ready all armed and fuelled . This would be first support mission PLAAF for its navy brethren . The strike plan laid out at the south sea fleet headquarters indicated a massive anti shipping strike against the Indian navy carrier force centered around INS Virat in pacific approximately 2300 kms from shores of China ,clearly in international waters .

The strike package was scheduled to take off shortly from another air base and likely 8-12 Su 27/30 with both anti ship and anti –air weapon systems

Mid-air refueling was a critical requirement and so the availability of AWAC support because of the large number of aircraft that will be operating in the area and also possible counter air operations likely to be launched by Indian navy fulcrums operating out of carrier

Vikramaditya(EX-Goroshkov) and possible support from the IAF Su 30 MKI s operating out of Clarks air base in Philippines.
The two tankers took off first followed by the two mainstays of PLAAF and finally the six Su-30 MKK s and took on a northern tack close to but not on the direct flight path of the strike package

Taihe Airbase –NANJING MILITARY REGION
26°48'N 114°42'E- RED DRAGON FLIGHT


The parking bay was full and the neat row of 12 fully armed Su -27 s was indeed an awe inspiring sight. Six of them were armed with Kh 31 anti ship missiles and the rest with standard mix of R-27/77/73 s. Their mission objective- overwhelm the defenses around Virat and sink her with some of her escorts preferably operating in conjunction with the PLAN surface fleet already in the region. For the PLAAF commander on ground it was an easy task. The flight was supposed to fuel once outbound and once inbound .Two IL-78 tankers were already flying into position. The air and surface battle will be controlled by a pair of A-50 mainstays located close to the aerial tankers and half a dozen flankers will provide escort services to this precious command and control aircraft along with the tankers .
The Mig 29ks from Vikramaditya was expected to be problem and in such a situation the air battle commander on board the mainstay was expected to divert some of the flankers from the escort/ strike mission to counter air operation around Vikramaditya .

It was a good strike plan of PLAN but it hinged too much on two factors –high level of AWAC control aerial refueling in an orderly and timely fashion. Also the strike plan assumed Indian Su-30MKI s will not take part in the battle because of local government objection.

Even if the Indian Su-30 MKI s do join in the battle the PLAAF commander was confidant that he could rustle up another dozen Su 27s from Nanjing military district air bases which were already on combat ready status
Once again for such a quick response he depended on the AWAC support



I

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Postby Mihir.D » 16 Mar 2008 13:23

Shankar,

Did u miss out something ?

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Postby Shankar » 16 Mar 2008 14:08

In September 2005 came news that China has ordered 8 IL-78 (NATO codename: Midas) aerial refuelling tankers along with 30 IL-76MD transport aircraft from Russia. This confirmed the earlier speculation that the PLAAF was considering to purchase the tanker to expand the range of its latest Su-30MKK fighter-bomber fleet. The IL-78 tanker was demonstrated to China during the joint military exercise between two countries in September 2005. However, the delivery of these aircraft has been delayed due to increased production costs and the financial dispute between Uzbekistan and Russia.

The PLAAF has been reportedly considering to acquire the IL-78 aerial refuelling tanker for many years. Although China has developed its indigenous refuelling tanker on the basis of the H-6 (Tu-16 Barger) medium bomber, its performance is much inferior to that of the Russian IL-78. Additionally, the aerial refuelling probe on the PLAAF’s Su-30MKK fighter-bombers is said to be not compatible with the refuelling system of the H-6 tanker.

The IL-78, created on the airframe of the IL-76 transport, is designed for in-flight refuelling of airplanes of various types. The tanker is fitted with a three-point probe and drogue refuelling system (one under each wing and they removable, and one mounted on the port side of the rear fuselage). The aircraft carries a maximum payload of 48,000kg, and is capable of delivering fuel at a rate of 900 to 2,200 litres/min. The aircraft is also fitted with navigation and positioning systems for night/bad weather operations.


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