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Posted: 19 Apr 2008 16:48
by Shankar

Commander Mohit Patel climbed into the instrument cluttered flight deck of his bear gingerly. Other crews were already strapped in and his first officer was busy with preflight checks now almost over. The smell of jet fuel was everywhere and ground crew have already started removing the wheel chokes from the six wheeled undercarriage appearing some what deflated under the full fuel ,load and the heavy air to surface missiles .Mohit leaned forward and adjusted his newly installed flat screen mult functional display to nose wheel mounted close circuit TV which will enable him to have a look at the runway as he would very carefully rotate the fully laden turbo prop powered aircraft off the runway.

The radio came to life almost immediately

-volga night lead –tower – confirm status –over
- tower –volga night lead – finishing preflight-shall be ready to roll in zero five minutes
- copy that volga lead –confirm when ready

Behind him five other bears of Indian navy were going through the same lengthy preflight routine for over the water combat mission and one by one the aircrafts radioed in their ready status and waited for permission to motor start
- tower – volga night lead – request permission to start motor
- roger that volga night lead – your flight is cleared to start motor in sequence and roll up to hammer head via taxi way alpha –Charlie –delta 7 –over
- tower – starting up –volga lead
Mohit patel looked back at the flight engineer and nodded .The ignition circuit was closed on the port inner engine first followed by starboard inner then the port outer and finally the starboard outer . The eight bladed contra rotating propellers made a muffled roar as one by one they came up to full power and then were throttle back before the Mohit released the brake allowing the heavy bomber with its load of missiles to slid up the parking ramp into the designated taxiway one.The other five Tu 142 s followed quietly without any radio chatter and within minutes they were at the hammerhead .The head wind from the seas was strong at 15 knots and knew this will help shorten the take off roll considerably ,always a matter of concern for fully loaded bears.

- tower –volga lead – request permission for take off
The confirmation from tower came in immediately
- volga lead –tower –your flight is cleared for immediate take off –in sequence please
Commander Mohit changed the frequency to inter flight and issue the necessary instructions for a staggered take at 3 minute interval, initial climb out altitude and course till they cross the Indian waters .The IAF phalocn already on station will take control from there .

The peace of the night in the sleepy town of Arkonam was shattered as the giants of the sky revved up their powerful engines and took to skies one by one .Climbing lazily into the distant horizon .The stench of burnt fuel was everywhere and would stay for several hours afterwards as the Tu 142 s banked to starboard ever so gently and flew on towards Gulf of Thailand .

he Tu-142 is in many respects an unlikely aircraft. It is an heavy bomber with a slender fuselage, swept wings, and four extremely powerful turboprop engines driving counter-rotating propellers - more than enough for the West not to take it serious at first. But more than 30 years after its first appearance, it was still in production as a maritime patrol aircraft and cruise missile carrier. Original 'Bear-A' was a free-fall bomber and carries only small radar under nose. 'Bear-B' has the 'Top Crown' radar under nose and refueling probe in front of cockpit; Bear-C' is a dual recco and bomber version. Differs from 'Bear-B' by having blisters on both sides of the rear fuselage. Capable to carry AS-3 'Kangaroo' under belly. Bear-D' with 'Mushroom' chin radar and the enormous 'Big Bulge' under the belly is a general purpose maritime version. Bear-E' maritime recco version similar to "Bear-A' but has refueling probe, rear blister fairings and cameras in the weapon bay. Bear-F' is an anti-submarine version with smaller under-belly radar than one of 'Bear-D'. It also features extended forward fuselage and MAD projection from the tailfin.

he Kuznetsov NK-12 is a Soviet turboprop engine of the 1950s, designed by the Kuznetsov design bureau. It drives huge eight-bladed (four per propeller) contra-rotating propellers 18.4 ft (5.6 m) in diameter and weighing 2540 lb (1,155 kg) in the NK-12MV and 20.4 ft (6.2 m) in the NK-12MA.

The NK 12 turbo prop was developed in conjunction with German scientist evolving from late war German Turbo prop studies . This started with the post war development of the war time Jumo 012 turbo prop design that developed 6000 ehp in a 3000kg engine . The effort continued with a 5000 ehp engine that weight in at 1700kg , completed by 1947. The evolution to the TV-2 12000 Ehp engine required extensive use of new soviet developed alloys and was completed in 1951. The NK-12M developed 8,948 kW (12,000 ehp) uprated in the NK-12MV to 11,033 kW (14,795 ehp) and reaching 11,185 kW (15,000 ehp) in the NK-12MA. NK-12 is by a wide margin the most powerful turboprop engine ever built. It powered the Tupolev Tu-95 / Tu-142 bomber, the Tupolev Tu-114 airliner [NK-12MV] (still the world's fastest propeller-driven aircraft), and the Antonov An-22 Antheus [NK-12MA] – the world's largest aircraft at the time. It has also been used to power several types of amphibious assault craft, such as the A-90 Orlyonok ekranoplan.
The counter-rotating propellers are driven by a single 14-stage axial-flow compressor producing compression ratios between 9:1 to 13:1 according to altitude, controlled also by variable inlet guide vanes and blow-off valves. The combustion system used is a cannular-type: each flame tube is centrally mounted on a down-stream injector that ends in an annular secondary region. The single turbine is a five-stage axial. Mass flow is 65 kg (143 lb) /sec.

Posted: 19 Apr 2008 16:59
by Shankar
On 3 November 1946 German engine specialists came to Experimental Plant No. 2 located in the settlement of Upravlencheskiy on the Volga River, 30 kilometers from Kuybyshev and 6 kilometers from the Krasnaya Glinka railroad station. The settlement appeared in the late 1930s during construction of the Kuybyshev Hydroelectric Node and consisted of houses for workers and hydro-logical laboratories. During the war, the Kirov 145th Machine-Building Plant evacuated from Moscow occupied the premises.
By the time the Germans arrived at Upravlencheskiy, extant buildings had been repaired and newT industrial blocks and houses erected. The reconstructed plant's production area amounted to 35 acres and included a designer's block, mechanical workshops, laboratories, and test station (built in 1948-1949).
Like the plant at Podberez'ye, Experimental Plant No. 2 had mostly captured German equipment. More than 1000 railroad cars loaded with machine tools, laboratory installations, and other equipment had arrived at the plant from Dessau, Halle, and other German cities. When the plant was being organized the supposition was that the Germans in the USSR would continue the work they had initiated in Germany—creation of augmented series-produced German Jumo 004 and BMW 003 turbojet engines and new powerful Jumo 012 and BMW 018 jet engines. However, in late 1946, a new task appeared: development of turboprop engines. Deputy Minister of the Aviation Industry M. M. Lukin wrote the following to Experimental Plant No. 2 Director N. M. Olekhnovich on 6 December 1946:
Research has been done in TsAGI to define the field of rational use of turboprop engines on high-speed bombers.
According to this research work, the field of rational use of turboprop engines is defined as the speed range from 600 to 900 km/h.
Their use on bombers with maximum speeds of about 750-800 km/h, depending on aircraft weight, is the most advantageous. This advantage expresses itself in a flight range increase of 2000-2500 km, which is 80-100 percent of the entire maximum flight range of the same bombers fitted with piston or turbojet engines.
It would be most advisable to develop a turboprop engine delivering about 4000-4500hp at altitude H=8000 m at a speed of 800 km/h. In parallel with the turbojet testing, in accordance with a Ministry of the Aviation Industry assignment, plant OKB employees were tasked with designing the "022" and "028" turboprop power plants. By late 1947, a theoretical analysis was completed and working drawings began to be released simultaneously with the manufacture of production tooling. However, the work was hampered by a shortage of test benches and other equipment. Therefore, the decision was made in 1948 to combine the OKBs and concentrate efforts on the manufacture of one engine-the "022".
"It should be stated that the presence of two OKBs headed by German specialists and with a complement mainly of German specialists who still have not overcome the elements of bourgeois competition did not ensure that the experience of one OKB was used by the other. Thus, this reason also had an influence on the decision to unite OKB-1 and OKB-2," plant director N. M. Olekhnovich wrote in his 1948 report.
A. Scheibe became the chief designer of the combined OKB, J. Vogts was appointed head of the preliminary design group. F. Brandner headed the design group, and K. Prestel was responsible for testing.
By this time, young Soviet engineers who had just graduated from aviation higher educational institutes joined the ranks of the German specialists. Thus, the entire graduating class of the Engine Department at the Kuybyshev Aviation Institute was sent to Plant No. 2 in 1947.
F. Brandner remembered: "The Russian engineers we had to deal with were inquisitive and industrious. However, at that they were very fond of endless political discussions. As a rule, the young engineers had narrow special education. They were excellently trained theoretically, but completely lacked any practical experience". As has been pointed out, the "022" turboprop engine was created from the Jumo 012 turbojet. This design was conceived initially at the Junkers firm back in 1944 but it had not been realized. Now the Germans had at their disposal a more or less developed "012" engine and it provided some hope. However, many things had to be redone. In comparison with the prototype the "022" had a three-stage turbine and other significant design differences. Also, the propeller, reduction gear, and speed governor had to be designed. The TS-1 starter, a small gas turbine developing 60hp shaft power, was designed to start the engine.
Much attention was paid to increasing engine efficiency since the specifications required that the propellant consumption rate could not exceed 0.32 kg/ehp-hour. For this, compressor blade-tip clearance was reduced to the minimum and the engine air intake diffuser was very carefully shaped. Bypass valves were installed beyond the fifth stage to avoid surging. Theoretical and experimental work was done on the control system (propeller-throttle).
In mid-1948 the design of the engine was completed and three prototypes ordered for production. A new 6000hp brake test bed was erected at the plant. In 1949 at the height of the work on the "022'' engine, a new director came to Plant No. 2—N. D. Kuznetsov. He already had experience in working with German jet engines: in 1946 along with Klimov and Brandner, he assimilated production of the Jumo 004 in Ufa. Also, he went to Germany to become familiar with German jet technology. Being an intelligent and sociable man, Kuznetsov immediately was liked by the Germans, as Brandner reflected in his memoirs. ater, the TV-2 was upgraded at P. A. Solov`yev`s OKB and its power increased to 7650 ehp (TV-2M). Counter-rotating propellers were used instead of the conventional four-bladed props. In the mid-1950s some Soviet heavy aircraft such as the first An-8s and Tu-91s were fitted with this engine. This engine became the foundation for creation of the first Soviet helicopter turboprop engine, the TV-2VM, in the mid-1950s. In 1950, 241 German engine specialists (610 persons, including their family members) departed Upravlencheskiy for their homeland but several hundred engineers and workers from Germany remained at the plant. They were assigned a new task—to build a turboprop engine of unprecedented power, 12,000hp. Such engines of gigantic power were required for the new A. N. Tupolev-designed Tu-95 strategic bomber. The simplest way to provide the characteristics the new power plant required was to combine two TV-2 engines with a single reduction gear power transmission. By the way, Germany had a similar experience. In 1939 Heinkel built the He 177 heavy bomber with four paired Daimler Benz engines. True, this experience was not a success because the power plant overheated and a strong vibration arose. But the Experimental Plant No. 2 German specialists either did not know about that, or maybe just preferred to keep silent. All hoped that the long awaited return home would occur after the task was fulfilled, and they tried to finish it as soon as possible. The work began after this idea was coordinated with A. N. Tupolev as a temporary measure making it possible to speed up the testing of the bomber.
Prior to building the "paired" engine it was necessary to augment the existing TV-2. This was achieved through the use of the new temperature-resistant EI-481 super alloy in the turbine structure that allowed an increase in the combustion temperature. Simultaneously use of high-pressure compressor stages with a small insert ratio increased the airflow through the engine. During 1951 bench tests, the TV-2F engine delivered 6250 ehp.
That same year 1951, two paired prototypes designated 2TV-2F were assembled. The engines were placed side by side; one was positioned a little bit behind the other. Their turbine power was transmitted to a single epicyclical gearbox with 0.094 reduction ratio. It rotated two coaxial propellers 5.8 meters in diameter. Power plant control was carried out through a single throttle quadrant connected with each engine. The number of turbine stages in the new engine, with an estimated 12,000hp, was increased to five. Thanks to the new heat-resistant Nimonic alloy, compressor pressure and gas temperature were increased as well. To enhance engine efficiency, much research work was done to reduce losses in blade mechanisms: tighteners minimizing the blade-tip clearance were used and hollow cooled blades of an original design made. A new reduction gear was manufactured and questions concerning the coordination of a turboprop with counter-rotating propellers were solved. Engineer Bockermann was engaged in designing the planetary reduction gear together with Russian specialists and another German engineer named Enderlein worked on the propeller. n early 1953, the engine assembly was finished. It was designated TV-12 and later redesignated the NK-12 to reflect the first letters in the name of the plant director.

• "The German Imprint on the History of Russian Aviation " /D.A. Sobolev, D.B. Khazanov/

Posted: 20 Apr 2008 13:00
by Shankar

It was quite and cool in the darkened interior of giant aircraft ,crammed to gills with high end electronics and countermeasures .Flying precisely at 40 000 ft over mean sea level in a standard race track patter for the time being it was responsible for directing and coordinating the coming strike packages . Commodore Manjit scanned the monitor bank all of which had a dedicated controller seated in front in a cushioned revolving seat .There were two rows of six monitors one on each side of the aircraft,just under the static radome housing the phased array radar arrays arranged as arms of an equilateral triangle –giving a full 360 degree coverage of the battle area all the time and in any weather condition .

The port side of the monitor bank for this mission was assigned to command and control the navy bombers and their airforce escorts flying in from the main land . The starboard side of the monitor bank was assigned to control the navy ships in the gulf of Thailand
And that included Mig 29ks that will be operating from Vikramaditya and flankers from land base s in Philippines .

Up in the front was the commanders console featuring a large LCD display partitioned into sections each displaying a repetition of individual monitors in picture in picture mode and a duplicated satellite data link which can be used by the battle commander by passing the 12 sector controllers anytime

srael Aircraft Industries (IAI) developed its Phalcon system for Israeli defense forces and for export. Airborne Early Warning, Command and Control (AEWC&C) systems play a major role on the modern battlefield by providing real-time intelligence and command and control needed to achieve and maintain air superiority over the combat area and to enable surveillance of borders in peacetime. The world's most advanced AEWC&C system, the PHALCON, was developed and produced by ELTA using Active Phased Array Electronic Scanning Technology rather than a mechanically rotating antenna (rotodome) used by current AWACS systems, giving PHALCON greater operational flexibility and performance by several orders of magnitude. The Phalcon AEW&C aircraft is based on four sensors: phased-array radar, phased-array IFF, ESM/ELINT and CSM/COMINT. A unique fusion technology continuously cross-relates the data gathered by all sensors. When one of the sensors reports a detection, the system automatically initiates an active search of the complementary sensors.
The aircraft communicates, via its data link, with Air Defense HQ. Data from additional air defense sensors are fused to create a complete spatial picture.
The PHALCON systems can be installed on a variety of platforms, such as the Boeing 707, Boeing 767, Boeing 747, Airbus and C-130. This system has already been sold to Chile, where it is designated "Condor". Under the aegis of Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai and Defense Ministry Director General Ilan Biran, six agreements for cooperation between Israeli, American and European defense firms were signed on 15 October 1998. Under one of these agreements, IAI/ELTA Electronics Industries Ltd. and Raytheon Systems Company will cooperate on the development, production and marketing of AEWC&C systems on a world wide basis. The new project will be based on PHALCON. The two companies have already teamed up to compete for tenders for uselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage. This electronically steered beam radar delivers a tremendous advantage over mechanical rotating antenna, as it supports the tracking a high maneuvering targets. The radar can detect even low flying objects from distances of hundreds of kilometers, day and night, under all weather conditions. Verification beams sent at specific, individual, newly detected targets eliminate false alarms. Moreover, track initiation is achieved in 2 to 4 seconds as compared to 20 to 40 seconds with a rotodome radar
The IFF system employs solid state phased array technology to perform interrogation, decoding, target detection and tracking. A mono pulse technique is used to implement azimuth measurement. The IFF data is automatically correlated with the phased array radar.
The ESM/ELINT system receives, analyzes and locates radar signals, covering 360o. It combines high sensitivity with high probability of intercept, and achieves excellent accuracy in bearing measurement. The system uses narrow-band super-heterodyne receivers and wide-band instantaneous frequency measurement (IFM) techniques to provide very high accuracy and probability of intercept of airborne and surface emitters. Very high bearing accuracy for all received signals is achieved through Differential Time of Arrival (DTOA) measurements. The system also collects and analyzes ELINT data.
The PHALCON's CSM/COMINT receives in UHF, VHF and HF, rapidly searching for airborne, ship borne or ground communications signals of interest. Selected radio nets can be monitored for signal activity. A DF capability locates targets. Detected signals can be assigned to monitoring receivers instantaneously. The system makes extensive use of computers to reduce the load on operators.

The night today was darker than dark and the red dim lighting did not help the tension building up slowly as the first of the Tu 142 s time to show up on the screen came close. Though officially the L and conformal radars were stated to have a range of 400 kms ,at 40000 ft altitude it was in practice nearly double that figure for a large bomber sized target like the Bear. Each individual console was manned by a Lt commander or a wing commander supervised by two group captains and a navy commander ,all reporting to the Commodore in charge or the battle commander .
So far the screen showed only the thinned out commercial traffic on the far east route .But then things were expected to change quickly –though commodore Manjit as he scanned the air waves for signs of some thing amiss

Posted: 20 Apr 2008 18:53
by Hari Sud

Don not forget the battle in progress in the Pacific Ocean. There are two Indian pilots floating to be rescued. Also battle of the warships has to begin.

Hari Sud

Posted: 24 Apr 2008 15:45
by Shankar
Hi guys -once again sorry for the unintended break in scenarios .I was in IGCAR Bhavini where the future of indian nuclear power generation is taking shape slowly but steadily.The 500 MW e PFBR or prototype fast breeder reactor is at reasonably advanced stage with large part of the civil works nearing completion .The plant is expected to get critical 2011-12 latest.Those guys are really busy as the orders for all major subsystems are rolling out many of them scaled up form the 50 MW FBTR fast breeder test reactor now fully operational

As you may be aware compared to pressurized heavy water reactor fast breeder reactors sue molten high purity sodium metal for extraction of the fission heat from the reactor core in two distinct heat exchange loops . In the first loop liquid sodium which circulates through the reactor core extracts the fission heat and transfers it to another liquid sodium heat extraction loop which is used for generation of high pressure steam .The critical items which had to be designed and validated in the test reactor included the high capacity high reliability liquid sodium pumps ,high purity sodium metal suitable for reactor use or rather reactor grade sodium,the high capacity compact steam generator ,the cover argon gas system and its purification process ,ultra slim fuel rod fabrication and the nikel reflector matrix etc etc.

Like always interacting with these select band of scientists and engineers make me feel good and very very proud of my country which once the fast breeder reactor is operational will be amongst the few select band in the world who have the capability to put the fast breeder technology to commercial use .

Security as expected is super tight and looks like I am kind of getting used to staring at the barrel of machine guns over the last few days .Still it makes a bit disconcerting experience .

A days working break at Bnagaluru - no luck with LCA sighting

Back to Lohegaon -wow it was great to see so many many Su-30 MKI s all,over and a couple of Bisons too . A Bison took off on operational sortie just as I was coming out using the full length of the runway and it was a treat to eyes .Looks like am becoming a Mig 21 fan of late ,followed by an AN 32 in its usal lumbering climb off and throaty engine noise .

next post ASAP

Posted: 24 Apr 2008 18:23
by Hari Sud
Thanks Shankar on your Fast Breeder Reactor update.

Posted: 25 Apr 2008 14:36
by Shankar

Commodore Patel completed his pre flight walk around and started the some what tedious climb into the flight deck. Qualified on all the aircraft flown by the navy he was perhaps the most versatile naval aviator still in active flying duty . But then time has caught up with him and the slight increase in mid section diameter made the climb into the backfires flight deck wee bit difficult .The rest of the crew were already strapped in and a strong sea breeze was blowing in from the Arabian sea in almost moon less night . For today’s mission he was carrying apart from the 4 Brahmos mk 2 anti ship missiles also a pair of archers on wing tip mounted twin missile rails .The designated flight path would take him over the Indian peninsula –Belgaum-Hyderabad –Khammam where he would get his feet wet –over the short stretch of bay of Bengal – Car Nicobar –Andamans Sea and into the combat zone over gulf of Thailand . Most of the route he will go subsonic except the stretches over ocean to catch up with the bears as the phalcon commander will take over the direct mission control.
Compared to the cockpit of IAF flankers or for that matter the Mig 29ks the flight deck of backfire was a bit outdated .A Single large flat screen display was partitioned off to indicate the scrolling map display getting its feed back from the Russian GPS system,the navigation details and weapons availability .Alongside a dedicated monitor showed the air and surface search radar display .Rest of the instruments were analogue primarily with a digital signal converter added on to feed the main display screen .The wing position selector lever was slightly behind and to right and at the moment in its take off/landing configuration. The fuel gauge showed he has about 22000 kg of fuel and the refueling plan included a single top up just inside Indian territorial waters off Khammam ,Andhra Pradesh.

he base was conceived long time ago by the Naval Planners who were getting alarmed at the congestion at Mumbai the need to operate simultaneously with merchantmen in a major commercial port. The relative vulnerability to air attacks due to the range of F-16s and Mirages was another issue that had to be factored in the Ops planning process.
dmiral Dawson the former Naval Chief is credited with the conceptualization and planning process that went with the creation of the base in the 80s. The survey had revealed that Karwar had all the potential to be developed as a major Base on the Western Seaboard. Many years of planning, surveys, and dialogue with the concerned State and Central agencies had finally cleared the project. The project had been beset with problems of land acquisition, lack of funds and related delays and had even assumed political overtones. The project had come to a virtual stop till late 90s when it got a shot in the arm after the intervention of then RM Mr. George Fernandes. Thus the project that should have been completed many years ago finally was commissioned as INS Kadamba on the last day of May 2005. The commissioning heralds the beginning of a process that would put the Base in the center of the Naval Operational and Maintenance plans in the coming decades.
A very notable feature of the Port is its 26 kilometers of stretch of water and the expanse availability of over 11,200 acres of land for future expansion that would rightly qualify it to be the largest Asian base in its truest terms. The Ship lift facility is indeed a novel one and has the capability to lift all the ships of the Indian Navy except the Aircraft Carrier and the Tankers. It is indeed unique and should add to the Dock yard capability to simultaneously take up repair and maintenance work on a number of ships thus bringing The provision of a Naval Air Base similarly would again provide the necessary air elements and also provide an alternate base for Aviation operational and training requirements. INS Hansa at Dabolim is a front line Air Station that is also highly congested with both operational and training flying. There is always a lot of demand from the local population for removal of restrictions on civil commercial air traffic being a popular tourist destination. The commissioning of a Naval Air Station at Karwar would definitely decongest Dabolim and provide a better ambience for the type of flying undertaken by the Navy.
It is also expected to house a Naval Armament Depot for storing and servicing various weapon stores that would be required for the units based at Karwar.
down ship lay off days and enhancing their availability to the Fleet Commander.
The moving away from Mumbai definitely would confer the advantages of distancing it from the Western Neighbour. The present distance would be about 900 nautical miles as compared to 580 nautical miles to Mumbai. Not that this would totally render Karwar safe from enemy attack, but would complicate matters for the planners in Karachi . The acquisition of air-to-air refuellers or uses of P-3C Orion to attack the ships off Karwar are options that the Indian Navy would still need to contend with.

The aspects of seaward, air and sub surface defence of the Base would ofcourse be catered for and contingency plans drawn up by the Local Commander based on the assessment of the multidimensional threats from any quarter. The plans would need to also cater for the determined terrorist attacks and other unconventional modes of attack to provide security.

- tower –serpent eagle flight – ready to copy take off clearance –over
- serpent eagle flight-tower – stand by
Alone lone sea harrier took off in the distance, its task was amazingly enough was to drive off a private Cessna which have some how managed to veer into the climb out path of the backfires and was not responding to ATC instructions.

Behind him the other 5 backfires started their engines and lined up on the hammerhead .The take off will be over the ocean and then a slow banking climb towards the mainland till reaching cruising altitude of 34000 ft for the first phase of the mission. They will be using the same high altitude airways used by the commercial airlines to minimize chance of detection till car nic air base .

-Serpent eagle –tower – standby for immediate take off
- Copy that tower – standing by
-Serpent eagle lead –you are cleared for take off-runway 28 – fly runway heading-flight level 340 –course 105 –good hunting –over
- tower –serpent eagle lead – cleared for take off – runway 280flight level 340-course 105 – taking off at 3 minutes interval –over
- serpent flight –serpent lead – start rolling –over

One by one the backfire took off in a mass of smoke fire and terrible noise ,lifting off the tarmac more like a interceptor rather the heavy strategic bombers they were and then slowly turning inlands climbing all the way .

Posted: 25 Apr 2008 19:12
by PaulJI
Is Thailand now an ally of India in this war? If the Backfire is flying to the Gulf of Thailand, it must be overflying Thailand. Obviously, it won't overfly Malaysia, since it's already been established that Malaysia is either backing China, or supinely acquiescing to Chinese demands for free passage of warships through its territorial waters.

Posted: 26 Apr 2008 14:13
by Shankar

So far so good thought commodore Patel as he washed down the last of the dhoklas with a cup of luke warm black coffee. The night outside was still dark but the scrolling map display showed he has reached the last mainland waypoint and now about to get his feet wet. Behind him the other five backfires were all in one line keeping the regulatory civil aviation separation of 1000 ft vertical and 10 km horizontal from the each other so as to give the impression of normal international civilian traffic .The mach indicator showed 0.85 exactly same as would be expected in a 747 or A320/340 at the present flying altitude band and navigation lights were still on . But there ended all the similarities ,The back fire looked like an aerial predator out and out which in fact it was .The refueling probes were officially not upgraded as per last SALT treaty but things on ground were different .All the 6 Tu 22M3 in today’s flight were equipped with a screwed in type aerial refuelers allowing them to take in fuel from the IAF IL 78 MKI s one at a time giving them true intercontinental range .The refueling point was still some distance away and prescribed refueling speed was 600 km/hr at 25000 ft . As he pulled back on the collective throttle slowly the air speed started bleeding off and at the same time his first officer started the lengthy procedure of radio chit chat the communication protocol was established and the slow approach to the flying gas station started

- indian oil one –serpent eagle flight –request permission to approach for tanking –over
- serpent eagle flight –we see you –authentication code please over
the voice of wing commander in charge of the refueling flight was cool and calm ,almost bored felt commodore Mohit patel
- Indian oil one –refueling mission authentication is delta zebra Charlie 2 4 0ver
- Stand by serpent eagle –validating authentication
- Serpent eagle flight –your authorization is valid –approach procedure orange noon –repeat orange noon –over
Mohit Patel checked up the code book though he knew what orange noon meant. It specified the exact refuel altitude and indicated air speed and fuel transfer rate for a particular transfer operation . This varied for each aircraft depending on fuel level in the tankers storage and transfer pump speed which depended on the fuel level in the tanks .

In the distance he could now see the navigation lights of the tanker as he deftly manipulated the throttle and deployed the air brake for a few seconds for the correct approach speed .As the distance decreased Patel kept on reducing the engine power till at barely 20 meters from the tanker and less than 5 meters below it the the large aircraft had no relative speed and commodore patel needed all his flying skill to ease into the fuel receptacle dangling in air left of his wind screen . Green lights came on moment the contact was made and high speed centrifugal pumps on board the IL78 started pushing in turbine fuel into the backfires central tank .Behind Patel the flight engineer opened the cross feed valves periodically to maintain the centre of gravity of the aircraft at present position and also fill up all the wing tanks simultaneously . The operation took almost 8 minutes as the sensors in the refueling pipe sensed FULL level in the backfires tank and stopped the pumps . Mohit eased back on the collective, gently disengaging from the tanker and veering down and out of the refueling zone as the next backfire came on slow and silent –hungry for a drink .

with variable leading-edge swept angle, swept tail unit with large additional forward vertical tail unit, lateral regulated air intakes, two turbofan engines inside the fuselage aft and three-axle retractable landing gear with nose post. The fuselage (semi-monocoque type) consists from four blocks and is strengthened by longitudinal beams in bomb bay area. The nose block (until 13th former) contains main radar under folding radio- transparent radome, the crew hermetic compartment and air refuelling boom with its bubble. The forward block (13-33th formers) contains nose landing gear post bay, fuel tanks No.1 and No.2 and electronic equipment bays (between formers 13-14, 18-23, 31-33), divided from each other by nose landing gear post bay. For accessing into these bays the hatches are made. On upper starbourd of fuselage, between formers 14-16 the accident boat bay is located. The middle block (33-60th formers) contains fuel tank No.3 under centre wing and the bomb bay between formers 44-60. At both aides of fuselage middle block the air intakes' entrance channels spread, and fuel tank No.5a is located over the bomb bay. Below the starboard air intake entrance channel between formers 57-60 fuel tank No.5b is located. The bomb bay doors and console rotation units are connected to longitudinal beams, strengthening the fuselage in bomb bay area. The removal panels under the centre wing open the access into the fuselage below-wing groin part. The aft block (60-82th formers) contains engines, auxiliary power unit, regulated engine jet exhausts, the tail unit with drag chute box, fuel tanks No.5 (integral) and No.6, 7 and 8 (bag tanks). Aft the vertical tail unit the UKU-9A-502 cannon unit with two GSh-23 23 -mm cannons is located on Tu-22M2. As regards Tu-22M3, it's fitted by UKU-9A-502M cannon unit with one GSh-23 23-mm cannon.

The wing has variable leading-edge swept angle and consists of centre wing (with 56 degrees leading-edge swept angle) and 2 rotated consoles. The consoles are moved by helical motions, connected each other by shaft with cardan hinges, and their hydraulic motors are feeded from two independent contours (hydraulic systems) in order to increase reliability. If one of console rotation gears fails or is damaged, the console rotation velocity is reduced. Tu-22M2 wing has 4 fixed values of leading-edge swept angle value 20 degrees (take-off and landing), 30 for altitude increasing after take-off and for speed run at subsonic speed, 50 to breake through AAD (Anti-Aircraft Defence) at low altitudes with subsonic speed and 60 degrees for flight with maximum speed at high altitudes. Tu-22M3 has maximum leading-edge swept angle value equal to 65 degrees. The consoles' leading-edge swept angle value regulates automatically or manually by pilot. The centre wing is of two-spar type with thick covering panels, fuel tanks are located in centre wing and consoles. The wing mechanization includes double-slotted flaps and auxiliary wings on the consoles and the centre wing flaps. The ailerons are disused and the three-section spoilers on each console are used for transverse maneurability at low and middle angles of attack. The consoles' double-slotted flaps deflexion angles are 23 degrees at take-off and 40 at landing. If consoles' leading-edge swept angle value exceeds 20 degrees, than the deflexion of consoles' double- slotted flaps and auxiliary wings is blocked up.

The swept tail unit has classic design. The vertical tail unit consists of additional forward vertical tail unit, main vertical tail unit (with 56 degrees leading-edge swept angle) and rudder. The lower part of main vertical tail unit contains fuel tank No.9. The horizontal tail unit has 57 degrees leading-edge swept angle value and includes two consoles with 59 degrees leading-edge swept angle value. Consoles are used for providing of transverse maneurability at high angles of attack (they move aside in scissors-like way).

The landing gear is three-axle, retractable with nose post. The nose post with 2 steered wheels retract backwards into the fuselage forward block bay, the main landing gear retracts into the centre wing and partly into fuselage in direction of aircraft longitudinal axis. On early Tu-22M middle pair of wheels of 6-wheels main landing gear before landing mowed aside, increasing rut of main landing gear and also the aircraft's capability to roll at ground runways. Later the demand for heavy aircraft basing on ground runways was cancelled and from Block 34 6-wheels main landing gear were simplified, as the middle pair of wheels' position control system was disused. The wheels dimensions are: 1000*280 mm for nose post and 1030*350 mm for main landing gear wheels, equipped with hydraulically-powered disc brakes. The landing gear bays doors connect to the centre wing fuselage. The drag chute is retracted by electro-pneumatic drive and consists of two parts, by 52 square metres each.

The Tu-22M2 power plant consists of two NK-22 turbojets inside the fuselage aft (maximum thrust with alterburning 2*20 tons). The air intakes are lateral rectangular and regulated, with hydraulically controlled vertical wedge. Tu-22M3 has two NK-25 turbofan engines inside the fuselage aft (maximum thrust with alterburning 2*25 tons, nominal thrust 2*14.3 tons). The air intakes are lateral rectangular and regulated, with upper surface, moved forward and hydraulically controlled vertical wedge. In order to provide enough amount of air, coming through the engine while the aircraft sits on the runway or flies with low speed the additional folds were made in upper part of air intakes both for Tu-22M2 and Tu-22M3. The auxiliary power unit is used for main engines start and also for different aircraft systems power supplying. The fuel is located in 10 tanks in fuselage (bag tanks and also integral tanks), inside the center wing and consoles, and in forward additional vertical tail unit. If being shot through, the tanks are filled with carbon dioxide, the pilot can also pour off the fuel in emergency. The aircraft can be fed with fuel from ground unit and has the flight refuelling system (for Tu-22M2 this system's units are used from serial Tu-22K, Tu-22M3 has its oun flight refuelling system). The crew compartment is hermetic four-seated. All crew members' seats are under hatches opened in direction of aircraft longitudinal axis. The pilot's cabin front glass block has one silicate glass and all other glasses are organic. Because of increased range and flight duration than Tu-22, the crew in Tu-22M2 is increased to four: pilot, 2nd pilot (co-pilot), navigator and operator of offensive/defensive electronic equipment (they also do all armament controle operations). The crew members' amount and functions were keeped on Tu-22M3. Two pilots are located in forward cockpit, navigator and operator in the second cabin. The cockpit is more roomy than on Tu-22, and crew now operates in more comfortable conditions. All the crew members had ejection seats KT-1 created in Tupolev's design bureau, which eject upwards and let to leave aicraft at zero altitude and speed, exceeding 130 km/h. After aicraft commander's signal all crew members eject with minimum time delays. The crew has pressurized suits, and also waterproof suits, flameproof suits and hermetic helmets.

The flight control system is doubled, partly electric-remote. The spring loading units are installed for creating pilot's "control feeling". The limitations on fulfilling maneurs, dangerous for the aircraft's strength, are also introduced into the flight control system. The ABSU-145 automatic control system functions in automatic or manual regime.

Armament. Tu-22M2 and Tu-22M3 with maximum take-off weight can carry three X-22M air-to-surface missiles: one in bomb bay and two on the pylons under centre wing. This missile is used for destroying of large radar-contrast targets and also AAD (Anti-Aircraft Defence) radars and can be fitted with fragmentation/blast, cumulative or nuclear warhead. The missile length is 11.6 metres, wing span is 3 metres. mass 5800 kg, range up to 500 km, maximum speed 4000 km/h. Before missile engine starts the missile loses altitude relatively to the bomber. In 80s for enforcement of Tu-22M strike capabilities, new air-to-surface missiles X-15 were installed. These short-range missiles were located in the bomb bay (6 on rotary launcher) and 4 under centre wing. The nuclear and conventional bobbs of various types and mines can be located in bomb bay and under centre wing on the pylons via multy ejector racks. Maximum bomb load is 24 tons, several combinations of blast bombs are possible, for instance: 69*100-kg, 69*250-kg, 42*500-kg, 8*1500-kg, 2*3000-kg, and also 24*500-kg + 8*1500-kg or 24*500-kg + 1 X-22M missile. The bombs are dropped after signal from main radar or from optical bomb sight. The early Tu-22M were not fitted with guns, but under influence of Vietnam war experience it was acknowledged nesessary using og guns even on heavy aircraft for "dog fight". Last serial Tu-22M0 got tail unit UKU-9-502 with two GSh-23 cannons. All Tu-22M series keeped this armament inspite of mass increase almost at 4 tons. Pilots had doubts on cannon's useful effect, but they still were the important item of bomber's defensive complex. The special shells were developed for them - with anti-radar reflectors (false targets) for missiles with radar sight heads, and with "thermal traps" for missiles with infra-red heads. As regards Tu-22M3, it's fitted by UKU-9A-502M cannon unit with one GSh-23 23-mm cannon. For both Tu- 22M2 and Tu-22M3 the fire is controlled by radar or TV-sight.

Posted: 27 Apr 2008 14:01
by Shankar

Commodore Manjit was earning his pay this early morning. All the twelve interactive consoles were now active and he as air –sea battle commander was deluged with rush of real time information and decide on the response in a matter of seconds. The PLAAF intercepting flights have not yet been detected but expected any time.To any outsider the scene inside the half a billion dollar flying air traffic control centre would have looked like a busy fish market of Chennai but it was not that . In fact it was worse than a fish market with abnormally high stakes and it was the responsibility of the air sea battle commander to bring some order into the chaos first and then execute the neatly pre choreographed dance of death

efore studying the effect of an AWACS on the employment of air power, it could be useful to briefly look at the capabilities and limitations of such a system. Owing to its elevation the AWACS has an advantage of a greater radar horizon compared to ground-based radars, which translates to surveillance of a larger chunk of airspace. A single AWACS of the E-3A class, on patrol at an altitude of 9 km/30,000 ft could have the capability to provide surveillance up to a range of 400 km at low level and detect 600 targets. It incorporates technology sophisticated enough to direct up to 30 interceptions simultaneously. In addition the AWACS is endowed with a data link facility to pass target information to ground-based radars and rest of the air defense network. An AWACS would also possess inherent ECM capability making it a difficult proposition for a hostile air force to electronically interfere with its operations. As far as its endurance is concerned, the AWACS has a patrol time of 8 hours on station. The main mission of the AWACS is Air Battle Management. As the name suggests, it administers the airspace in war and thereby controls the air battle. It is most effective in this role when detecting intruding aircraft and directing own interceptors towards the raiders. This ability to 'see' the air battle on a real-time basis is crucial in the campaign for control of the air. The AWACS is most potent if it is employed where a situation of asymmetry exists. The Israeli example in Bekaa Valley is often quoted by students of air power as the classic exploitation of the medium by such a system. Even in other offensive air operations, the AWACS can guide own strike aircraft to enemy targets while steering them clear of their air defenses. A corollary to air battle management is Sea Battle Management. An Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft is highly desirable at sea and when an AEW system offers a degree of control as well, it is invaluable. Not only can the AWACS provide air battle management at sea, but also guide own aircraft to carry out anti-ship strikes. In addition it can make available data for over-the-horizon targeting of ships by missiles. Assuming similarity in AWACS technology, the side which has superior tactics and training would emerge victorious and be in a position to control operations in other dimensions as well. An AWACS increases the pace and intensity of operations because of its capabilities of detection, real-time data links and control. This only reaffirms the basic attributes of air power and therefore, the need to seize the initiative would be high in order to tailor the air operations to suit one's choice of time, space and intensity. Fighter sweeps, once discarded as an aberration of the past could emerge as a major contributor in the air effort to gain air superiority.
If it is accepted that the air battle with AWACS symmetry is likely to be highly intense and in an environment that would not give many second chances, there will be a demand on the men as well as their flying machines. Fighter aircraft capability would need greater attention and there will be a requirement to produce highly maneuverable aircraft armed with beyond-visual-range (BVR) weaponry. These air superiority fighters would have to possess abundant stand-alone capability as the battles in the air become denser and more intense. The nature of aerial warfare would imply a return to days of the Red Baron where qualities of men and machines were stretched fully, albeit with overall number of aircraft involved being lesser at a given time.

-volga night flight entering active control zone sir –putting them on holding pattern over grid sector bravo zeta

- serpent eagles are over due –delayed by 10 minutes due to bad weather over car nic –just entering positive identification zone

Commodore responded reflexively
- roger that let the bears slow down and go into race track holding pattern till further advise
- tell those backfire buggers to speed up a bit and enter assigned grid asp

- volga night lead – ocean eye – hold position –reduce speed to 300 knost and flight level 150 till further advise
- serpent eagle lead-ocean eye – you are cleared supersonic to grid sector bravo alpha –report when in position –maintain flight level 340 –over

- sir there is delay in flanker escort from car nic –report animal intrusion in the runway – estimated delay -15 minutes
- contact car nic –get me the officer commanding – want those damn flanker in air as of yesterday
- roger that sir – getting base commander on line

- sir a message from air headquarters – intel indicates a full squadron of flankers taking off from Myanmar –on possible intercept course to our bears
- alert bears – contact port blair if they can divert some flanker son CAP

Posted: 27 Apr 2008 14:16
by Shankar

Wing commander Jalan could not believe his eyes . A full grown 26 ft salt water crocodile was relaxing on the runway just as he was about to get into take of position and behind him 14 other Su-30 MKI s waiting their turn. The dark and massive reptile could have seriously damaged his sensitive undercarriage if not noticed by the powerful landing lights .As called in the towers attention to this rather unexpected problem a team of airbase security personnel rushed in a Gypsy to take care of the problem

The refugees lived to tell the tale, thanks to Indian seamen who shot at the menacing crocodiles as the fleeing refugees made their way to a rescue ship.

"As we were returning, two or three crocodiles started coming toward us," Sister Charity, a 32-year-old nun, told The Associated Press on Thursday. "The Navy officers had to fire their revolvers to ward off the crocodiles to protect us."

Sister Charity, who was rescued from Hut Bay island, was among survivors who told harrowing stories as they emerged from the isolated Andaman and Nicobar islands.

Crocodiles are common across Southeast Asia and the South Pacific and are among the many dangers survivors are facing after Sunday's disaster. After a tsunami in Papua New Guinea several years ago, crocodiles feasted on corpses scattered along the beaches.

In this remote spot in India, rescuers followed the stench to find rotting corpses in jungles on the 30 or so of the territory's 500 islands that are inhabited, officials said.

Survivors brought to Port Blair, the territory's capital, said they had not eaten for two days and also had to fend off the crocodiles that were swept ashore by the huge waves.


Posted: 27 Apr 2008 14:31
by sauravjha
aah you have built in the Phalcons and Tupolevs into an operational scenario


Posted: 27 Apr 2008 17:32
by Shankar

Commander Roy listened to the terse instructions from the air battle commander on board the Phalcon and waited for the confirmation from his team leader.As per established norm there was no radio communication only the navigation lights of the lead aircraft blinked on and off in a primitive code (Morse) .This was followed by bright flash of orange flame as the lead aircraft engaged afterburner and accelerated forward increasing the minimum horizontal separation from the rest of the formation. Roy knew it meant he could at least use the superlative capability of his aircraft and more particularly the NK 25 engines for a few minutes. But before that he needed to change the wing configuration for subsonic flight .As he moved the wing position lever to full swept back position ,twin dedicated hydraulic motors silently moved the wings back on slotted rails and the bomber took on the appearance of an oversized interceptor . The air speed increased almost immediately with simultaneous pitching motion caused by marginal reduction of lift on the wing surface .He looked the other aircraft in the formation ,blinked his navigation lights in pre arranged sequenced and pushed the twin throttle past the reheat gate to 125% full military power . The expected ejection seat pressing into his back sensation and before even he got used to the new sensation his mach meter displayed 1.10 and he was flying faster the sound .

he Tupolev company is probably the most famous aeronautics firm, or design bureau, as the Soviets referred to their aeronautics companies, in the former Soviet Union. Tupolev is named after Andrey Tupolev, the man many historians consider the patriarch of the modern Soviet air industry. Almost all the major Soviet aviation designers of the mid-twentieth century, from fighter designer Pavel Sukhoi to space rocket designer Sergey Korolev served their apprenticeship under this legendary man.
Tupolev was born in 1888 and developed an early interest in aeronautics, building gliders by the time he reached his early twenties. In 1918, he received his diploma as an "engineer-mechanic" based on a thesis for a design of a seaplane. Early in his career, Tupolev was an advocate for introducing modern concepts into Russian aviation. On October 22, 1922, he founded a commission to design and develop all-metal aircraft for the Red Air Force. To this day, the Tupolev company regards this date as the founding date of the organization. At the time, the commission was part of TsAGI (the Central Aero-Hydrodynamics Institute), the premiere Soviet aeronautics research institution based in the town of Zhukovsky, south of Moscow. Early in his career, Tupolev was an advocate for introducing modern concepts into Russian aviation. On October 22, 1922, he founded a commission to design and develop all-metal aircraft for the Red Air Force. To this day, the Tupolev company regards this date as the founding date of the organization. At the time, the commission was part of TsAGI (the Central Aero-Hydrodynamics Institute), the premiere Soviet aeronautics research institution based in the town of Zhukovsky, south of Moscow.

. Tupolev's initial forays into aircraft design led to the creation of a number of notable early Soviet airplanes such as the TB-1 (ANT-4) bomber, one of the largest planes built in the 1920s. Two of his aircraft from the period, the ANT-20 Maxim Gorky and the ANT-25, set world records for size and long-distance flights respectively In October 1937, the Soviet secret police arrested Tupolev (and many other important aviation designers) on the doubtful charge of selling secrets to the Nazis. Tupolev and many of his associates were carted off to the infamous Lubyanka prison where they were forced to sign false confessions. Not long after, with an impending war on the horizon, Joseph Stalin realized that he could not do without his aviation designers. In late 1938, the Soviet leader authorized the creation of a special prison camp in the Bolshevo suburb of Moscow to develop new bombers for the Soviet military. Almost all of the country's major aviation designers were part of this prison organization. As prisoners of the state, these talented engineers had no right to a name and were not permitted to sign their design drawings. Each designer merely had a rubber stamp with a number on it. Secret police guards constantly followed the engineers around workshops during their daily work. Tupolev developed the Soviet Union's first long-range strategic bomber, the swept-wing Tu-16, known by NATO as "Badger." The Soviet Air Force operated the bomber as late as the late 1980s. The Chinese also built some under license. The Tu-16 was followed by the first very long-range strategic bomber, capable of intercontinental ranges—the swept-wing turboshaft Tu-95. Known by NATO as the "Bear," Tupolev produced many different versions of the Tu-95, including one that was a missile carrier and another a reconnaissance plane. In the same period, Tupolev created the first Soviet jet airliner, the Tu-104, which caused a minor sensation in the West when it flew a high-level Soviet delegation to London in September 1956. he used the Tu-95 to create one of the most famous Soviet passenger airplanes, the turboprop Tu-114, capable of carrying 220 passengers. When Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev visited the United States in 1959, he arrived in a Tu-114. U.S. military officials were astonished that a turboprop airliner could achieve speeds of 800 kilometers per hour (497 miles per hour). In the 1960s and 1970s, the Tupolev organization introduced a new generation of strategic bombers, among them the Tu-22, the Tu-22M (both known by NATO as "Backfire"), and the Tu-160. He died in his sleep in December 1972 at the age of 84.

Posted: 30 Apr 2008 16:42
by Shankar

Wing commander Jalan did not know to laugh or cry .The crocodile on runway was turning out to be more than a handful for the security guards who were slowly pushing it out of the runway in bush with long poles and the big croc was not at all amused at the rough treatment as it kept on snapping at the guards every now and then .It took almost 12 minutes for the runway to be cleared and Jalan immediately switched to tower frequency for take off clearance

- tower –rhino charge lead-request immediate take off clearance for my flight
- stand by rhino charge
- rhino charge lead –tower – ocean eye indicates possible bandit flight crossing Myanmar coast in grid sector orange bravo at flight level 200 – suggest neutralize incoming bandits first before joining the escort force –contact ocean eye immediately on take off –ocean eye will have full operational control –over
- copy that tower – cleared for take off- report to ocean eye once in air –over
- rhino charge flight – we have possible large bandit formation inbound- contact ocean eye on frequency 131.5 once on air – we may have to split guys –best of luck

The twin AL 31 s changed its tone from low growl to a thunderous roar as wing commander Jalan pushed the throttle levers all the way forward to 185% military power and the flanker trembled within the restraint of the breaks which Jalan released in one go and the flanker leapt forward and was in air in less than 400 meters ,the canards moving in unison to the thrust vectoring nozzles making possible a take off really short compared to other aircrafts of its size .

Negotiations with India to supply Su-27 type fighters started in 1994. The Design Bureau commenced work to develop a Su-30-based plane for India's Air Force in 1995. A.F. Barkovsky was appointed chief designer of the project. On 30th November 1996 an intergovernmental agreement was made for phased development and delivery to India of 8 Su-30K two-seat fighters and 32 Su-30MKI multi-role two-seat fighters. The planes were scheduled for delivery in several consignments, with gradual enhancement of avionics, powerplant and weapons. The general contractors, according to a government resolution, were:
- for aeroplane development: Sukhoi Design Bureau OJSC (now JSC),
- for aeroplane production: Irkutsk Aircraft Production Association (IAPA, now Irkut Corporation).
Two prototypes were built by the Design Bureau in 1995-1998. The first prototype, Su-30I-1, was based on the Su-30 production version, the prototype completed in the spring of 1997. The first flight was performed by test pilot V.Yu. Averyanov on 1st July 1997. In July 1997, the Design Bureau launched a programme to test the plane jointly with SPFC of the Air Forces.
The aircraft has been in production in Irkutsk since 2000. The first pre-production plane was flight tested at the plant by V.Yu. Averyanov on 26th November 2000. The first three pre-production Su-30MKIs were handed over to the Design Bureau and have been used along with prototypes in the joint-testing programme with SPFC of Air Forces.
In accordance with the terms of the contract, the Su-30MKI planes were to be tested and delivered in 3 stages. The first delivery of 10 Su-30MKIs to the Customer took place in 2002; the second batch of 12 aeroplanes, in 2003. By 2004, the Su-30K and Su-30MKI planes had been put into service with two squadrons of India's Air Force.
The Su-30MKI’s distinctive features:
- for the first time in the world, a production aircraft has an engine with thrust vector control (AL-31FP, developed by the RDC named after A. Lyulka), and a remote control system integrated into a single control loop. Taken together, this renders the Su-30MKI extremely manoeuvrable;
- for the first time in the Design Bureau's history, a plane features a large-scale integration of avionics systems of foreign and domestic origin. The Su-30MKI has an "international" avionics portfolio, including as it does systems and units made by 14 foreign firms from 6 countries of the world.
- For the first time in the world, a production plane has a radar with PAA ("Bars" developed by the Scientific Research Institute of Instrumentation Technology). Moreover, the plane has a new ejection seat, the K-36D-3.5, and a number of other innovative systems of domestic origin.
- The ADO line-up has been significantly upgraded with the addition of the RVV-AYe air-to-air guided missile, Kh-29L/T/TYe, Kh-31A/P, Kh-59M air-to-ground missiles, and KAB-500 and KAB-1500 guided bombs.
The Su-30MKI programme has for the first time in Russian history showcased a new model for military-technical cooperation incorporating all types of long-term cooperation currently practised in the world such as:
- delivery of the first consignment of products in the baseline version (Su-30K),
- joint R&D to produce an upgraded version (Su-30MKI),
- granting the customer a licence to manufacture with subsequent replacement of Russian-made components with those of foreign origin (in December 2000, a contract was signed to sell to India a licence to manufacture 140 Su-30MKI planes of the final delivery group),
he Indian Air Force ordered 40 Su-30's in 1996, which they though was cheaper than the Mirage-2000-5. The Su-30 was designed and optimised for an air defence role, and had to be modified to meet India's requirements. The Indian Su-30 "MKI" version had to have further updated avionics, including a much improved radar and a high proportion of non-Russian kit; canard fins; and thrust-vectored engines. The deal also included the possible integration kit for Akash air-to-air missile.
The full-specification Su-30MKI did not even exist at the time the deal was cut, and so the 40 aircraft were delivered in what amounted to "blocks" of increasing capability, with early aircraft to be upgraded to full specification later. The initial block was punctually delivered in 1997 and consisted of eight "Su-30K" machines, which were basically similar to the Russian Su-27PU / Su-30.
While these deliveries were in progress, the Sukhoi organization was putting together the first Su-30MKI prototype, a conversion of an Su-27PU / Su-30, with this aircraft performing its first flight on 1 July 1997. It was essentially an airframe demonstrator, featuring:
• Canards along with the appropriate leading-edge wingroot extension. The canards could move from +10 to -50 degrees and provided much improved control authority at high angles of attack.
• New "AL-31FP" engines with 142.2 kN (14,500 kgp / 32,000 lbf) afterburning thrust each, and two-dimensional thrust vectoring. The exhausts were able to move 15 degrees above and below the central thrust line.
• A new FBW system that made the best use of the canards and thrust vectoring.
The original Su-27 was agile for its size, but these improvements took the agility to a new level. Test pilot Vyacheslav Averyanov flew the prototype at an airshow in Bangalore in December 1998, but the demonstrator was lost in an accident in June 1999 in an appearance at the Paris Air Salon. A second Su-30MKI prototype, another conversion of an Su-27PU / Su-30, had performed its first flight on 23 March 1998, and the loss of the first prototype did not delay the program.
Instead of moving through successively improved blocks of machines, the IAF wanted to go straight from deliveries the Su-30K configuration to deliveries of the full Su-30MKI configuration. Since the full configuration wasn't ready at that time, in the fall of 1998 India ordered another ten Su-30Ks, similar or identical to the original batch of eight, with the new batch delivered in 1999. This new batch was in addition to the original order for 40 machines, bringing the total to 50.
The first preproduction Su-30MKI performed its initial flight on 26 November 2000, with three more preproduction machines completed in 2001, with all four used in test, trials, and evaluation. A fifth preproduction machine was built but only used for ground tests. The first full production Su-30MKI performed its initial flight in late 2001, and the first batch of ten was delivered by An-124 in the summer of 2002. Deliveries were completed in December 2004.
Hindustani Aeronautics (HAL) is also contracted to build 140 aircraft in India between 2003 and 2017, under a licensed production agreement. The first indigenously assembled aircraft was delivered in November 2004.

Posted: 02 May 2008 14:20
by Shankar

Zhenning Mao ,leaned forward and switched the radar to standby mode .He had the Indian phalcon and its escorts approximately fixed and intended to switch it on again as he is closer to target . His flight of 12 J11 s , a naked copy of famed Su 27 s were flying a tight diamond formation 3 flights of four aircraft each . He knew of the four Su 30 MKI s operating escort for the flankers , and was sure he could overwhelm the defenses of Phalcon even if it cost a number of brave PLAAF pilots for a greater cause.

His logic was good but somewhat outdated .To start with switching off the air search radar did not made him invisible to the Phalcon or for that matter the Indian flankers protecting it . In fact it made it detection by the Phalcon easier and the real time position of his flight was relayed by high speed data link to the escorting flankers and also via satellite to the tri services command at Port Blair as well as air headquarters new Delhi.

The nett result confrontation shaped up even before the J-11 flight was anywhere near the strike range.

The force multiplication effect of a Phalcon was about to be tested in combat for the first time and unfortunately the PLAAF top brass was in no mood to expose another of its valuable mainstay clones to KS 172 equipped Indian flankers .In an indirect was the killing of the pair of of PLAAF A-50 s early in the conflict achieved the objective of asymmetric warfare ,by grounding of the remain PLAAF awacs for the time being .For Indian air force and navy a small window of pure air dominance opened up when the all the theoretical exercises and war gamming based on awac support will be put to test.It remained to be seen –what will be the outcome

[quote]In 1992 the PLAAF received the first of an eventual 36 single-seat Su-27SK and 40 two-seat Su-27UBK fighters to re-equip key air defense units. Experience with the Flanker led to the type being adopted as the primary heavy fighter for the PLAAF. As a result, China went on not only to procure 100 Su-30MKKs and Su-30MKK2s for the fighter-bomber and maritime roles, but also to negotiate a license to assemble Su-27SK fighters at Shenyang.

In 1996 Sukhoi and Shenyang reached agreement to assemble 200 aircraft, initially from Russian KnAAPO-supplied kits followed by increasing local component manufacture. Designated J-11, the first was rolled out in 1998, although manufacturing problems led to a delay in full-scale production until 2000. Observers believe that 96 standard J-11s were produced by 2003.

The following year it was reported that production stopped at around 100 aircraft and that the J-11 no longer satisfied Chinese requirements. Under the terms of the original coproduction agreement there was no technological transfer for avionics or engines, and they had to be bought from Russia.

While production of the baseline J-11 was under way, Shenyang began work on an advanced version known as the J-11B, with Chinese engines and avionics. The locally developed WS-10A Taihang engine was tested in an Su-27SK and has been fitted to trial versions of the J-11B. The improved aircraft also has an indigenous radar housed in a new style radome and the type is compatible with a range of Chinese weapons. J-11Bs have undergone tests since 2003, while the radar was tested in a modified Shaanxi Y-8 (An-12).

Engine Issues
China’s desperate search for a successful modern fighter turbofan reaches back decades, with a string of failures. In the 1970s and 1980s, Western technology was acquired in the shape of the Rolls-Royce Spey and the CFM International CFM56. The latter is thought to have provided the starting point for what became the Shenyang WS-10 turbofan. This engine was intended to power the J-10, although development was so slow it became obvious that it would not be ready in time for the new fighter.

In the early 1990s the embattled WS-10 program gained breathing space thanks to the Sukhoi fighter deal, which provided access to the Salyut (Lyulka) AL-31F engine that powers the Su-27. Negotiations soon began to procure AL-31Fs for the J-10. The first few prototypes flew with development WS-10s, but subsequent aircraft have been powered by the Salyut AL-31FN–a modified version of the Flanker engine with gearbox relocated to underneath to match the J-10’s single-engine requirements.

There have been four orders for the AL-31FN, the first reportedly totaling between 10 and 50, while the three subsequent purchases cover 254 engines.

Meanwhile, WS-10 development continued, including an increase in thrust to produce the WS-10A Taihang. As the Chinese engine was seen as a potential alternative to the AL-31F, the dimensions were kept the same as the Russian powerplant. Flight tests began in 2002, with one engine replacing an AL-31F in a test Su-27SK. The model was certified in 2006.

It now appears that J-11 production will use the WS-10A, while for the foreseeable future the J-10A will retain the Salyut powerplant. However, it is a stated aim to fit the WS-10A in the J-10. This program has ramifications in the export market, as a Taihang-powered J-10 would be an “all-Chineseâ€

Posted: 02 May 2008 15:07
by Nitesh
4 MKI vs 12 J11.............

hmm quite interesting and j10 on top of Su27 can't believe it. So chinkis copy a product and create a good stuff.

Posted: 03 May 2008 04:03
by Igorr

Posted: 03 May 2008 12:51
by svinayak

Posted: 03 May 2008 19:04
by Shankar

Commodore cursed loudly in his native Punjabi as the aircraft hit a clear air turbulanec pocket and lurched downwards without warning .The paper coffee cup was not designed for containing the upward movement of hot caffeinated fluid and it splashed on his white dress uniform . But the time was not there to do anything about it as the individual sector commander’s started calling in with detailed status reports

- sir – we have a situation developing in grid sector tango Charlie – 12 J-11 aon intercept course – time to missile launch r-77/27 one five minutes at present course and speed
- contact the bloody rhino chargers and tell them to divert at least half their assets to intercept the incoming bandits pronto – do not divert our dedicated escorts for the time being
- rhino charger –ocean eye – bandits inbound – engage immediately – possibly J 11 type- donot activate air search radar now – make your heading 285-altitude 8000 meters – no friend lies in the area –you are free on all weapons –over
- ocean eye –rhino lead – diverting rhino 1 through 6 for intercept mission – rest stays with pre assigned escort mission – new flight call sign is Bengal deep – heading 285 –making altitude 8 kilo meter –understand free on all weapons –over
- sector commander get me car nic base immediately
- one moment sir please
- car nic base – please connect to base commander now –ocean eye commander on line
- ocean eye –car nic base – go ahead
- car nic – we need immediate re enforcement – can you launch six more flankers as of yesterday –we have bandits inbound – 12 plus j-11 -15 minutes out
- shall do sir – flight of six flankers beings scrambled right now
- sir the bears have reached their waypoint three and awaiting clearance to enter weapon free zone
- hold up the bears for a few more minutes –status on the backfires
- sir the six back fires are expected to enter grid sector bravo zulu in 3.05 minutes
- ok then clear the bears into weapons free zone but they are to launch only on my command
- volga night –ocean eye –you are cleared to enter grid sector alpha zulu – make your heading 075 –altitude 7000 meters – you are not yet free to launch – launch on specific command from here
- ocean eye –serpent eagle –entering grid sector bravo zulu –request weapon free
- stand by serpent eagle- maintain present course and heading – throttle back to 0.65 mach for next few minutes – volga night entering launch window anytime
- copy that ocean eye –standing by

The war in gulf of thailand and andamans was about to start with unmatched intensity and destructive power -in a few minutes .

Commodore Manjit sipped the seventh cup of black coffee and remembered the last piece of advise of his Russian instructor when he just joined the naval aviation and was being trained to fly the Tu 142 in russia

The outcome of any conflict does not depend on the weapons or the numbers, but on the commander who knows how best to use them in the most effective way and without remorse.

He intended doing just that

Posted: 04 May 2008 00:05
by jamwal
Can I have the first pic (Bear and Tu22 )in bigger size?

Posted: 04 May 2008 02:08
by Igorr
Just Great, Shankar! Especially, this language of military intercom, I'm totally immersed into the subject with it.

Posted: 04 May 2008 13:23
by Shankar

It was a massive fleet by any standard and by definition a massive target opportunity for any concerted air strike. Admiral Shen yang looked at the combat plot developing up,deep in the bowels of his sovermanny class destroyer leading the flotilla . Two squadrons of Su 27 s were on standby in nearest land bases and he also had a sizable combat air patrol of 8 flankers overhead. Air search data from the flankers were downloaded and integrated into the main combat plot and so far it showed nothing but a large number of slow moving dots on the outer periphery of the screen appearing to be an unusually high density of commercial airliners from the size as well as cruising altitude. He as expecting a anti ship strike form Indian flankers only as he neared the Andaman island chain but then it never hurt to be too careful .He keyed in his command in the personal console and it was immediately data linked to the su 27s patrolling overhead .Two of the flankers broke of the standard race track pattern gas conserving flight profile and moved off in easterly direction to check the incoming ,yet to be positively identified “commercial flightsâ€

Posted: 04 May 2008 13:25
by Shankar
indian phalcon photo please

Posted: 04 May 2008 13:48
by Shankar
The central problem with a surface-ship naval strategy is the vulnerability of large ships to antiship missiles like the garden-variety Exocet, a French missile now in the arsenals of at least 18 countries. The Exocet can be launched from a plane, a helicopter, or a ship. It is powered by a two-stage solid-fuel rocket motor, with a range of about 40 miles. After launch, it uses a radio altimeter to dive to just a few feet above the ocean surface - making it very difficult to detect by radar - and skims along at about 650 miles per hour. Near the end of its flight, it rises slightly above the horizon for a fast radar scan, then locks its homing radar on the closest ship.
Since the homing radar lock, which exposes it to ship defensive radars, is delayed until the last seconds of its flight, only the fastest defensive systems have time to react. During the 1982 Falklands war the Argentines fired six Exocets; four of them hit targets, and one sank the British destroyer Sheffield. More recently, in the spring of 1987, an Iraqi Exocet utterly disabled the spanking-new American Perry-class frigate Stark, a ship that cost about a thousand times more than the missile that put it out of action.
The Stark episode illustrates some of the things that can go wrong with ship defense. An Awacs early-warning message did not get to the Stark on time; the ship's radars didn't pick up the missile; its Phalanx defense system, an antimissile gun that screens a ship in a 3,000-round-a-minute hailstorm of machine-gun bullets, was not turned on (it usually isn't, because it fires automatically when an object moves across its field of vision). Even if the Phalanx had been turned on, then Navy Secretary John Lehman admitted, it has only a three-out-of-four chance of knocking down an Exocet-like target anyway.
The Soviet Union deploys far more capable antiship missiles than the Exocet -missiles that are faster, even less visible to ship defensive systems, and less easily foiled by countermeasures. The newest Soviet antifleet weapons, like the SS-N-12 and SS-N-19 missiles, can be launched from as far away as 300 miles, with midcourse guidance from a spotter plane or helicopter. They have more sophisticated terminal guidance systems than the Exocet, and carry electronic countermeasures of their own to confuse defensive radars. And Soviet naval tactics call for attacking with whole clouds of missiles launched from both airborne and seaborne platforms, at a variety of angles, altitudes and distances.

And then came the BrahMos

Posted: 05 May 2008 14:06
by Shankar

Zhenning Mao Liked to fly and liked to fight but he hated the penny pinching mind set of his countries political leadership . From the outside the J-11 looked like an original flanker and flew at the more or less the same speed too but there all the similarities ended.While the earlier kit built models were supplied to units near Taiwan the later versions with Chinese aviation electronics were earmarked for this mission .

[quote]The first kit-built J-11 rolled out at SAC in December 1998, but the full-scale production did not commence until 2000 due to technical problems. Russian sources confirmed that 48 aircraft had been produced by 2002, and another 48 between 2002 and 2003. However, SAC hinted as early as 2000 that not all 200 J-11s would be built. In November 2004, Russian media reported that the J-11 production had stopped after about 100 examples were built. According to the report, the Chinese side had requested Sukhoi Company to stop deliveries of the assembly kits. A number of reasons may have contributed to the stop of the J-11 production. Firstly, the co-production agreement did not include the transfer of avionics and engine technologies, and the Chinese-built J-11 would have to continue relying on the Russian supply of these systems. Secondly, the Russian-made fire-control system on the J-11 is not compatible with the Chinese missiles. As a result, the PLAAF had to import additional R-27 (AA-10) MRAAM and R-73 (AA-11) SRAAM from Russia to support the operations of its J-11s. Thirdly, as a single mission air superiority fighter, the Su-27SK/J-11 could only perform secondary attack missions, and only with “dumbâ€

Posted: 05 May 2008 20:46
by Igorr
Shankar wrote:indian phalcon photo please

Easily :)

Just for comparizon the Russian A-50 Beriev AWACS. old more narrow variant of engines can be seen:

This is Il-78 refueller with the same old fasion narrow engines:

And this is the last modernisation of Il-76 with the new broader and more powerfull PS-90A-76 engines with higher bypass ratio:

So the engines of A-50 'Falcon' now is almost the same as Il-96 has:

Posted: 05 May 2008 21:33
by dhruvarka
According to, Indian airforce phalcons have conformal fugelage mounted radar arrays and not rotodome types. Are your photos of actual IAF Phalcons or classic Mainstays?

Posted: 05 May 2008 22:00
by Igorr
dhruvarka wrote:Igorr,
According to, Indian airforce phalcons have conformal fugelage mounted radar arrays and not rotodome types. Are your photos of actual IAF Phalcons or classic Mainstays?
You mistakenly think about Falcon of Israel AF ... alcon.html


It has different airframe with the same radar 'Falcon'. So there is a confusion... Look what they said there: "The AWE&C phased array radar replaces the conventional rotodome radar. It is mounted either on the aircraft fuselage or on top of the aircraft inside a stationary dome, providing full 360° coverage".

The new engines (PS-90A-76) are easy recognizable. only A-50 aircraft which has a radome and PS-90A-76 together was made for India. There is just no any other castomer for this type with exeption of Indian AF. This is Il-76 with PS-90A-76 on MAKS-2007:

Posted: 06 May 2008 08:37
by dhruvarka
Thanks for the clarification. I was confused because the Israeli website showed a Il 76 with no visible rotodome as the Indian Awacs.

Posted: 06 May 2008 15:44
by PaulJI
dhruvarka wrote:Igorr,
Thanks for the clarification. I was confused because the Israeli website showed a Il 76 with no visible rotodome as the Indian Awacs.

Strictly speaking, we should not refer to the radome on the Indian Il-76 AEW aircraft as a rotodome. As Igorr says, it is a stationary dome. Inside, there are three fixed phased arrays in a triangle, each covering 120 degrees.

Posted: 07 May 2008 15:24
by Nitesh
Shankar sir

missiles are fired, had they reached the destination? seems they are taking too long to reach there target even at the supersonic speed:)

Posted: 07 May 2008 18:47
by Shankar

Admiral Shen yang always like to take his command decision at his own pace .He was not worried much about a concerted air strike by the Indian flankers since the superlative air defense capability of his destroyers and almost 4 dozen high speed interceptors at his command in nearby mainland bases he could if required rustle up a formidable air defense capability in a matter of minutes . As he watched the radar scope he saw an unusually large number of large aircraft in the main east west air corridor over Thailand but they were all flying the standard international air speed for commercial traffic that is mach 0.85 and at standard altitude of 34000 ft . And then things changed quickly .One by one the first of the six aircraft started loosing altitude quickly and turned on a course that will put them on a flank attack position on his convoy in a matter of minutes . The other six aircraft has slowed down to mach 0.65 a pretty un usual speed change for a group of civilian airliner unless they were all planning to land in a near by Thai airport simultaneously .

Shen would have thought this to be a classic missile attack posture if the distance to the attacking aircraft were less say 100 kms or so. But at the moment they were almost 450 km way and as far as he was concerned why would they start getting into a missile launch position so far from the target.

And then the SAM console operator almost screamed in his ear

-Sir all our search and tracking radars have been jammed by a powerful broadband jammer
About the same time the screen in front Admiral shen yang turned into white hash

This time Shen yang did not hesitate as he issued orders –right left and centre –knowing full well it was too little too late
- put all close in guns on full auto
- get all sam systems activated and ready to launch whenever they get a lock at any incoming aircraft /missile
- tell the flankers to close in on the unidentified aircraft at max speed and engage


Commander Mohit Patel put the massive bomber on a turning dive ,approaching the PLAN invasion fleet from flank ,this he believed would give his flight that best target profile .All the brahmos his flight was carrying were programmed to carry out a S type terminal maneuver that would make them approach the respective targets in a steep dive through the predicted SAM envelope and then just within the field of view of the close in weapon system but still outside its engagement range that is precisely at 4 km from the target to go into a sea skimming 90 degree turn to hit the target ship from behind just below the water line . The destruction of any ship by this strike profile was almost certain and no defensive system the Chinese ships carried was expected to be effective against such an attack.

His target bunch was the lead 8 sovermanny class destroyers and for that his flight carried 24 Brahmos mark 2 anti ship missiles with an effective range of 500 kms plus but rated at just under 300 kms to keep the MTCR lobby happy .

Volga night lead –volga night flight – confirm target data loaded and ready for launch
- Volga 2 –ready to launch
- Volga 3 ready for launch
The rest of the launch ready confirmation came on quickly
- ocean eye – commencing missile launch salvo mode –now
- copy that volga night –ocean eye concurs –god shooting

Commander Mohit leveled out the bomber and pushed the collective all the way forward and the four massive turbo props growled in unison .The weapon ready status came on as a cluster of green . Mohit pulled the nose of the aircraft up in a very gentle climb as he squeezed the weapon release switch gently ,waited as the first missile dropped free and ignited its solid motor ,only then he squeezed the trigger second time and agin waited as before and then squeezed the rigger one last time as the third brahmos cleared the slip stream and lit its fiery tail

-volga lead –ocean eye –we see clean weapon separation – good launch – exit to grid sector bravo delta –now –confirm over
- volga night two –you are cleared to launch – good shoot –ocean eye watching
-copy that ocean eye –volga lead –turning back –thanks for assist
- ocean eye – volga night two – dropping big sticks now –over

Within ten minutes all the 18 missiles were releases and on their way to the lead elements of the PLAN invasion fleet equipped with best anti aircraft defense and anti missile defense system that peoples republic of china could lay its hands on –but against the incoming salvo of mach 3 extended range brahmos missiles they were quite useless .As the 18 missiles entered the active air defense envelope of the PLAN destroyers the powerful anti missile /aircraft system of sovermanny class came alive but did not even lock on a single incoming before the high speed missile went on pre programmed terminal avoidance maneuvers in the form of an extended s hitting the ships on the stern just below the water line . As each missile hit the armor plated behind they punched a hole almost 2 meter diameter inwards and then exploded in a horrendous detonation,generating a shock wave powerful enough to kill any one in the bowels of the ships instantly. The secondary shock waves followed in regular interval as the fires reached the aviation fuel tanks and the primary and secondary magazines .One by one the mighty sovermannys of PLAN started taking on water and then sinking into gulf of Thailand unceremoniously.

-volga night –ocean eye –good work –we see 12 ships sunk and rest appear to be badly damaged – clear off the are guys –over
- thanks ocean eye for the confo – bugging out

Mohit patel atlast relaxed a little ,completing the first long range maritime strike with supersonic missiles in the history of naval combat ,he knew he will be never forgotten and then the training took over as he eased back on the throttle and set course home –still a long way off


- serpent eagle lead –ocean eye – stand by for missile launch
- copy that ocean eye – moving into launch grid bravo zulu
- serpent lead confirm you have updated target co ordinates
- ocean eye –serpent lead –we have downloaded the latest target data –request weapons free
- stand by serpent eagle
Commander Roy looked at his first officer who already was hunched down over the knee height console ,confirming one last time all missiles were healthy and ready to go and the data transfer was complete .Unlike the bears attack this time the brahmos missiles were programmed to do a classic top attack .Approach the ship at wave top and then suddenly just outside the close in weapon range climb vertically up, execute a sharp u turn in the sky and then dive straight into the target ship
-Serpent eagle-ocean eye – you are weapons free –over
- Serpent eagle lead to serpent flight – we launch together on my command -5 4 3 2 1

24 heavy anti ship missiles dropped free of the launch platform 8 at a time at precisely 15 second interval and then moved away in a thunderous roar .They covered the distance to targets in a few minutes and then skidded to the wave tops as they entered the air defense zone covered by surface to air missiles .Once agin just outside the close in weapon system range they went vertical accelerating all the way and then turned back and made a screaming dive on their doomed targets mostly troop ships and lightly armed frigates .Most of the targets simply disintegrated under the enormous impact and then the heavy high explosive warheads exploded tearing the troops ships and escorting frigates into masses of red hot scrap metal .

Fortunately the Chinese admiral was not alive to see the near annihilation prized invasion fleet.He died a few minutes after the first salvo

Posted: 07 May 2008 19:35
by gauravjkale

Posted: 07 May 2008 21:06
by Sudhanshu
Fortunately the Chinese admiral was not alive to see the near annihilation prized invasion fleet.He died a few minutes after the first salvo

I am not trying to imply anything. But giving my view from a literary angle.

but just saying.. don't we think it should be Unfortunately, or "Fortunately for Indian crew" something in that line.

(don't kill me :) it was just a view, because it involves someone death, and writers are not suppose to take anyone side's instead the character in the story, if I am right)

Posted: 07 May 2008 21:18
by deovratsingh
I wish life was so simple, but it's not. We have consistently underestimated Sino abilities and abilities of Chinese planners.



Posted: 08 May 2008 09:40
by gauravjkale
deovratsingh wrote:I wish life was so simple, but it's not. We have consistently underestimated Sino abilities and abilities of Chinese planners.



who cares for these chinese.

have a look at the following video and you decide for yourself

have decided not to buy anything made in china

Posted: 08 May 2008 13:30
by soutikghosh
gauravjkale wrote:
deovratsingh wrote:I wish life was so simple, but it's not. We have consistently underestimated Sino abilities and abilities of Chinese planners.



who cares for these chinese.

have a look at the following video and you decide for yourself

have decided not to buy anything made in china

I thought that the Muslim practice of Halal was bad, but this is worse than that. F*****g Chinese, those men should be skinned alive and made to wear shoes and jackets made out of their skin.

Posted: 08 May 2008 14:45
by Nitesh
Wow! Great description shankar sir.

complete annihilation of a fleet in just minutes!!. Wonder now what chinese will do? will they attach India with there long range missiles.


Posted: 09 May 2008 01:24
by deovratsingh
have a look at the following video and you decide for yourself

have decided not to buy anything made in china

I thought that the Muslim practice of Halal was bad, but this is worse than that. F*****g Chinese, those men should be skinned alive and made to wear shoes and jackets made out of their skin.

There is no limit to human brutality towards his fellow being and the animals.

I have read somewhere, that some Agfhan Mujaheedin groups interrogated the captured Russian soldiers, with this method-means first they would show an example of this to the senior captured commander,if he still did not break down, then they would put him through this ordeal without giving him a bullet, however those who broke down; they got bullet to their head after interrogations. Those who were lucky and fotunate, they got bullet to their head after the capture, without going through this "thorough" interrogation.

I also saw the documentary movie" Discovery of India" based on the book by our great leader "Jawahar Lal Nehru"; ( we are still suffering from his Kashmir and Chinese legacy-in a quest to win a Noble prize). In that movie- it was clearly mentioned that Emperor Jahangeer, in his young days ( i.e Saleem); loved to watch "skinning" of the captured Rajputs, for which; he was scolded by his father ( Akbar).



Posted: 09 May 2008 04:08
by CalvinH
Look up some of the tortures given to Sikh leader and commoners by Muslim kings/armies. We dont need to go very far in history/geography to understand it. Also look up for "hanged, drawn and quartered" in google (remember Braveheart, the movie)

lets not talk about tortures, we would need a separate thread for it..Lets stick to chinki bashing :D