Possible Indian Military Scenarios - Part II

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Postby Shankar » 17 Jul 2005 12:00

The president of pakistan was a confidant man . But also he lacked a sense of strategic vision required to win a possible war with much larger and stronger enemy. His decision to to send in the falcons in the heavily defended Bhuj sector with known overwhelming numerical and qualitative superiority of IAF was a big mistake . The falcons will be diffcult to replace but with US supply pipeline now open will be done sooner orlater. The bigger loss was the trained falcon pilots who were amngst the best in pakistan .
Kareen khan knew IAF will retaliate -he assumed will retaliate immediately and extemding his own logic assumed it will be eiether against Islamabad ro Sargodha . Su -30 mki s will definitely be used . So picked up the phone and told his air chief to bolster the air defense in islamabad sargodha region .A squadron of of Mirage III s flew up from karachi to join two more squadrons of F-16 already stationed there . Ofcourse their number was somewhat reduced from the latest strike mission but the pakistani president didnot let such minor operating details affect his grandoise battle plan .

Kareen khan could never understand the the importance or fine points of naval deployment . In fact few times he had been on board PN warships almost made him puke in disgust . They were in bad shape ,slow and very very expensive to aquire. They sinking of brahmaputra somewhat made him happy but counter sinking of khalid within days reinforced his prejudice against the naval arm of pakistani armed forces . He looked at the signal from naval headquarteres advising successful conclussion of a joint exercise in indian ocean and their immediate return to karachi in a weeks time. Also attached was a map of arabian sea in which the proposed course was marked in red . From a soldiers instant fondness for maps of all kind he noted the course would take them between indian mainland india and lakswadeep group ofislands then the flotila would veer of left to join the international shipping line to karachi. At all points they will stay well out of indian teritorial waters . The presidents attention span with things naval was about 5 minutes and then he just forgot about it and started thinking about spares problem for T-80 tanks .

m/s Eliza wheat looked at the KH-11 satelite images spread over her desk and looked at the expectent face of defense secratory perter macdonald . The signs were obvious . Indian are setting up a kill box off the coast of Kochi .Their target -the four pakistani naval ships returning home after a seven day long joint exercise with USN in the indian ocean
She did the obvious ,picked up the secured phone and set up an appoinment with the president Ronald Gush . Presidents diary was quite full what with visiting french president and a senate hearing all boxed in the same day . She was politely told by white house chief of staff to make it tomorrow if possible -Eliza wheat agreed .
Later much later she would be questioned by the world media about her delibertate non persistance in passing out such a vital piece of info to nations chief executive - her response would be a standard no comments -the real reason was however the present US secratory of state was not much bothered with pakistan i fact she didnot even care if the state exists or not for unlike her public stance in media in reality she knew only too well where all the worlds terorism is nurtured . If india is helping out in meeting the US s real national objective -so be it ,who is she to object.

Captin shohib pathan was a worried man . His task force was a slow one what with the fleet oiler PN Mohavin managing 10 knots and that too with frequent stoppages to cool down her main propeller shaft bush bearings. Without the squeaky oiler his frigate could have averaged more than 500 nautical miles a day would have been in the open seas by now . But it was unthinkable to ditch the oiler not only froma humanitarian point of view but also a logistics one . They needeed to top up their furnace oil tanks soon which he planned
The pakistani fleet made an impressive sight against the setting sun . The twin quad launchers sporting the harpoons were proof that even much superior indian navy will think twice before attempting anything .

Captain pathan was right and wrong
Indian navy did think more than twice before embarking on this strike mission and that is why an overwhelming naval flotila was being assembled right now along the port of kochi with interlocking radar coverage extending more than 300 nautical miles with 2 destroyers 4 frigates and 2 Tu 142 s already in air . Six maritime strike jaguars will soon be landing in Kochi airport to execute the terminal phase of the plan.

But Capt shohib pathan was not aware - unlike his royal navy friends who have used these ships of war to great effect always did so in cunjunction with one or two carriers and a couple of nuclear attack subs in tow . The leanders and amzon types were great sub hunters but in the waters around him ther were no subs . He was tracked from satelites 1000 kms high ,he wa at the point of being located by one of the most effective maritime recon platforms ever designed to keep the USN carrier forces at bay , he will be targetted by missiles which outranges his harpoons by almost a factor of two , he did not have enough sea space to evade a multiple missile salvos -he did not also know the outcome of such an unequal battle -simply because he did not know the indian plan .

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Postby Shankar » 17 Jul 2005 14:53

PN tippusultan was still a powerful ship of war along with her sisters in pakistni navy . The wing 50000 hp rolls royce olympus TM3B ga turbines oculd propel her at speeds in excess of 30 knots . At 384 ft length she was definitely not a small ship. The 41.7 ft wide beam gave her a deadly sleek lok. One problem was her draft she needed at least 20 ft draft and so was somehow restricted to narrow shipping channels in some parts of the ocean like one between indian mainland and lakswdeep group of islands. She was carrying six harpoon missiles in her launchers and manned by 19 officer and 220 sailors in various capavities. The single lynx helicopter carried on board was mainly used for anti sub patrol and occassional search and rescue operations. Today she was not flying - no point provoking indian navy into pre emptive action was the pakistani commnders thought ..

Captain pathan once again looked at his harpoon launchers -the only potent weapon system on board .The AGM 84 harpoon stand off land attack missile was essentially developed to provide a common missile for airforces and navy. The harpoon use a midcourse guidance with active radar seeker to attack surface ships. The low level sea skimming cruise trajectory along with active radar guidance and heavy warhead design makes it one of the most feared weapons in present day naval warfare. The harpoon missile system was essentially designed to operate in an open ocean environment where it achieves greater degree of autonomous operation withou much support from the launch platform .

But for capt sohaib pathan things were not going the text book way
- he did not have any target data with which to launch the missiles
- His position was not exactly open ocean type , midst of one of the worlds busiest sea lanes launching missiles in the event of an indian attack may well endanger friendly and neutral shipping
- he did not even know that he was being ambushed

But if launched correctly the harpoon is deadly accurate . The guidance seeker consists an active radar seeker , radom , missile guidance microprocessors, radar altimeter to maintainminimum altitude from ocean surface, a stand alone three unit attitude reference assembly, a digital computer -power supply . After launch the digital computer utilises data from attitude rference assembly and radar altimeter to maintain the missile on pre programmed flight profile . Once the target is positively aquired the same digital flight control computer uses the raw seeker head dat to terminally guide the missile to target .The warhead isd 100kg high explossive and a contact fuse designed to detonate the warhead on impact.
The 3 pakistani frigates were carrying between them 18 such missiles -there were no re loads .

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Postby Anshul » 17 Jul 2005 16:36

Nice Buildup Shankar!I hope we are gonna see the Sea Eagles in action.PNS Flotsam all around lakshadweep.Green Peace will be seething with anger.Can we also see some action from the Bramhos.Would it be fit in an Anti-Ship role?BOOOOO..OOOOOO.....MMM!!!! :idea:.I also want to rescue the LYNX crew :D !!!

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Postby Kalki » 17 Jul 2005 23:43

Shankar, Excellent writing mate! Keep up the good work.

Just thining out loud: *A couple of Agostas underneath the paki fleet would look decent, without IN knowing it.

IN having a few surprises for the agostas, which shocks not only PN but the french manufacturers would look damn good.*


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Postby Shankar » 18 Jul 2005 12:36

The president of unites states was a very busy man ,he was also a fitness freak . So he tried to combine the two together bu putting a exercise bike with all fancy monitors and guages in one corner of his world famous office . This item of furnishing was discreetly removed by his secret service staff whenever some forighn dignitary came calling . Today there was no such need .
As secratary of state Eliza wheat took her seat the president with alook of regret in his face ( because his 40 minute work out has been cut short by half) took his chair. -
- morning eliza -you look bit out of breath -can i offer you some coffe
-that would be nice Mr president -please make it black
- so what bring you out so early -any fresh tero strike
- No M r president ,we have a situation developing in arabian sea ,a possible naval confrontation between indian and pakistan navy
- now wait a minute ,when did you develop this information
- yesterday M r president
- what are our options
- Carl Vincent group is about 700 miles down south , it will take them about 3 days to be in a possible blocking postion .
- will that do any good to my friend Kareen
- no M r. president
- how do you read the situation
- M r president i think indians are going to sink all the three pakistani ships in retaliation of sinking of Brahmaputra and that is going to take place in the next day or so .
-have you talked to defense -what is there say on this
- Mr president the secratory of defense agrees fully that we should not put the men and women of our armed forces in harms way for defense of a key player in international terorism .
- Thank you Eliza - keep me posted on developments -by the way call up kareen and let him know the situation -it will make him think we still treat him as an ally . Have a nice day eliza.
And there ended the last hopes of pakistani naval flotila


Rear admiral Narendra sekhawat The tsak force commander and captain Vishnu Pandey fine tuned their final strike plan over a steaming jug of coffee and some freshly baked whole wheat toast with poached eggs on the side . Their main problem was presense of quite a few oil tankers mostly greek and japanese registry in the possible combat zone . The TU-142 s have finally managed to locate their query and now keeping constant radar watch on the 3 pakistani ships from an altitude of 35000 ft and way beyong their surface to air missile range.Four jaguars have reached kochi and just now being armed up with sea eagle missiles for possible use . All the 8 uran launchers in the two destroyers were loaded and ready to be ripple fired or fired one at a time whenever the time was right ( read within range ) Their attack computers continiuosly updated by uplinked data from the patrolling bears via dedicated transponder onboard one of the ISTRO s geo synchonous satelites .

Type 15 or Delhi class fully indian manufactured is perhaps one of th most powerful and well armed ship in its class plying the worlds oceans. Incorporates the the best of russian sovermeny class along with elements of kashin class destroyers with some more inputs from local ship bullding industry particularly the large dual helicopter hanger . At a full load displacement of nearly 7000 tons it is certainly no small ship .
The powerpalnt to push these heavy ships at speed inexcess of 32 knots M36E 64000 horse power ga turbine plant consisting four gas turbine generators from russia drives the twin screws through twin RG-45 reductio gear boxes . At the moment however Delhi and Mysor was cruising along at a comfortable 25 knots thru the moderate swell of arabian sea leaving twin frtohy wake on its trail.
The basic anti ship weapon on board were the Uran anti ship missiles with a specified range of 130km+ under any possible flight condition and widely regarded as equivalent to harpoon missiles carried on board the pakistani frigates now being tracked . However the effctive range of urans was appreciably more and they also carried somewhat heavier warheads each weighing approx 150 kgs. . The presence Brahmos anti ship supersonic missile on board was never discussed in the detailed operational planning since their presence in any warship is usally not confirmed or denied by indian navy and definitely use of any supersonic anti ship missle in a congested shipping lane was out of the question .

It is then Rear admiral sekhawat presented his final attack plan to the assembled ships commanders thru on board hi bandwidth secured data link and " OPERATION HAMMERHEAD " swung into action

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Postby Shankar » 18 Jul 2005 15:53

The lakswadeep and mincoy group of islands is essentially an achipelago consisting fof 12 atolls ,three reefs and five submerged banks. It is an uni district ubion teritory wiyh an area of 32 sq kms and comprise of ten inhabitated islands ,17 un in habitated islands ,attached islets,four newly formed islets ,5 submerged reefs. The inhabitated islands are kavarratti,agatti, amini,kadmat,kiltan, chetlat, bitra , andrott, kalpeni,and minicoy .

It is located 220 to 440 kms from the city of kochi in the southermost state of kerala . Considering lagoon area of 4200 sq km, 20000 sq kms of teritorial water and 400000 sq kms of economic zone lakswadeep is a large teritory.

The pakistani fleet was just east of minicoy island the southermost island in lakswadeep chain of islands. The distance of minicoy from Kochi is 220 nautical mile. Due north of minicoy is the small island of kavaratti approx 140 nautical miles . karavatti is again 220 nautical miles distant from Kochi . The two islands minicoy and karavatti in fact forms a precise triangle with Kochi at the apex and the two islands as the base .

The basic objective of indian navy was to contain the 4 ship fleet within this triangle ,away from the busy shipping lanes and then take them out one by one .

Lakswadeep archipelago also happens to be one of the most scenic ocean tourism spots in the world. The total population is just over 51000 and majority are sunni muslims . Malayalam is spoken all over the islands except in minicoy where people speak mahl.

As the Indian navy task force passed kochi on their way to engage the pakistani flotila Rear admiral sekhwat could help thinking about the chequered history of these group of islands.

Early history of lakswadeep is unwritten . What now passes forhistory is based onlegends. Local traditins attribute the first settlement of these islands to cheraman perumal -the last king of kerala. It is believed that after his conversion to islam at the behest of some arabmerchantshe slipped out of his capital Cranganore an old harbour town kochi for Mecca. When his dissappearence was noted search parties went after him to various places . It is is believed that one of thes sailing boats from raja of cannanore was struck byaa fierce storm and the soldiers were shipwrecked on an island now known as Bangaram. From there they went to agatti. It is believed the people sent later on were hindus and even now the hindu social stratification exists despite islam.

The arrival of portugeese in india made lakswadeep an important place for sea farer . It was also begining of the years of plunder of the islands. The finely spun coconut coir was highly sought after for the wooden ships. So the the portugese started looting the island vessels. It is said some day the people killed all the invaders by poisoning and that ended the portuguese invasion.

Even after conversion to islam the hindu king was Raja of chitrakal for some years. From the hands of chitrakal raja the administration went to muslim house of arakkal of cannanore around the middle of sixteenth century. The arakkal rule was opressive and in 1783 some islanders went to Tipu sultan at mangalore and requested him to take over the adminstration of the islands. After the battle of of seringapatanam british took control of the islands and then to to free indian govt.

Rear admiral Shekhawat re focussed onthe problem in hand pushing the history of lakswadeep into back fo his mind.

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Postby Shalav » 18 Jul 2005 21:17


Some inconsistencies you should address.

1. PN excercises are conduted in the Arabian sea "WEST" of the Lakshwadweep chain. Tactically it would be foolish of them to conduct any excercises:-

a. East of Lakswadweep and west of the Indian mainland, making it easy for the IN to do what they have to
b. to transit between the Indian mainland and the Lakswadweep chain It would be a surefire invitation to an easy retailiation by the IN in times of tension.
c. Historically the PN has conducted naval excercises either in the BoB or the Arabian Sea. They did it once with the PLAN around China. (BTW thats when they showed their excellent seamanship and managed to prang the Babur while docking that created a big hole in its bow.) Also they have always transitted west of Lashwadweep the few times they have done it.

Better to keep this consistent with their current practices.

2. The Tipu Sultan is not equipped with AShM's see picture below.


Here are the descriptions of their main Type 21 Tariq class destroyers (ex UK amazon class Frigates - ALSO the PN has classified their ex Amazons as DDG - better to stick to that convention)

a. D181 - PNS Tariq (ex HMS Ambuscade - lead ship of the Tariq class) - AShM: 0; SAM: 6x LY60; Torpedo: 2x Triple mk46; CIWS: Phalanx
b. D182 - PNS Babur (ex HMS Amazon) - AShM: 4x AGM84; SAM: 0; Torpedo: 2x quad Bofors; CIWS: Phalanx
c. D183 - PNS Khaibar (ex HMS Arrow) - AShM: 0; SAM: 6x LY60; Torpedo: 2x Triple mk46; CIWS: Phalanx
d. D184 - PNS Badar (ex HMS Aclarity - AShM: 4x AGM84; SAM: 0; Torpedo: 2x quad Bofors; CIWS: Phalanx
e. D185 - PNS Tipu Sultan (ex HMS Avenger) - AShM: 0; SAM: 6x LY60; Torpedo: 2x Triple mk46; CIWS: Phalanx
f. D186 - PNS Shahjahan (ex HMS Active) - AShM: 4x AGM84; SAM: 0; Torpedo: 2x Triple mk46; CIWS: Phalanx

If you want to use a PN ship with AShM's for your storyline use the Babur, Badar or the Shahjahan.

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Postby daulat » 18 Jul 2005 21:37

btw - shouldn't we lodge a complaint about the names of PN ships, as far as I have been taught, both Babur and Tipu Sultan were INDIAN!!! :evil:

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Postby Kartik » 18 Jul 2005 22:15

the twisted Paki logic believes that whatever history undivided India has related to Muslims and Islam is theirs.. :evil: ..what history do they have otherwise ?

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Postby Y I Patel » 20 Jul 2005 01:51

The Huddle

The room was too stuffy, too… Victorian, Rizwi decided. The thick wooden paneling, the heavy drapes, the plush Kashmiri rug... these guys ought to let in more light and air, like we do in Nau Sena Bhavan. But then, they have trouble getting rid of a desk because Kipper used it!

Distracted musings to help alleviate the hard knot in the stomach. Too many eyes watching, can’t have fidgety hands or crossed knees, not in this bastion of teak hard discipline. Then the young major flung the door open, and the entire gathering jumped up and snapped to attention like so many IMA cadets – didn’t matter whether you had three years of service, or thirty. When The Chief arrives, you do your best to imitate a ramrod, and age be damned!

At ease, gentlemen. Please take your seats. The voice was clipped, jaunty. But the faintly Punjabi lilt acquired in a dozen Sainik Vidyalayas crept in, even after years of diplomatic engagements and foreign assignments…

The tamasha is finally going to begin, this time for real! So lets get to the brass tacks at once, gentlemen! Admiral, can you get us started with an appreciation?

Yes Sir. Thank you sir. Rizwi got up, and went to the podium to address the veritable galaxy of stars arrayed in front of him. The briefing was for the Army brass, so that they would have a general idea of what their colleagues in the different services and commands would be up to. The complexity and scope of modern operations ruled out a more detailed briefing, so broad strokes would have to suffice for now – after that, it would be each Senapati to his own.

The domestic scene has become very supportive of a decisive conflict to solve the problem of Pakistan once and for all. As was heard in the parliamentary debates, political leadership of all hues is strongly supportive of any actions that the government authorizes. Our sister intel agencies report a corresponding national consensus among people from all walks of life, though there is suppressed but considerable concern among some quarters about the effects of prolonged hostilities. The continuing no-war no-peace situation has wrecked havoc on the stock markets, and foreign investments have also started showing signs of being affected. The general feeling among business leaders is that uncertainty is the main culprit. Business leaders have privately conveyed to the political leadership that they can handle a couple of weeks of intense action; beyond that, they would have to come out publicly for restraint to soothe their international partners.

Our fighting men are similarly well prepared for the hostilities; their main concern is that they not be asked to risk their lives and limb for gains that would be frittered away on some negotiating table.

Internationally, western democracies and Russia have decided to adopt an initial hands off posture. Informally, we have been told that so long as things look like they will be settled decisively, there will be no interference. However, if it looks like there is a military stalemate, then some of our interlocutors may feel constrained to step in and restore stability.

General Yashpal Tomar, COAS, interjected at this point. Go and and tell them about our understanding with the US, Admiral.

Yes sir. Sirs, you should know that there will be some tacit rules of engagement on the western front. I am permitted to tell you that there is an understanding with President Frist that we will restrict our operations to the east of Indus. On a broader political level, there is an understanding that after the hostilities, India will control the newly liberated territories to the east of the river, while a joint US and British peacekeeping force will step in to restore stability in the western provinces of the soon to be erstwhile Islamic Republic of Pakistan. On the ground, this means that their military units will establish communications channels with our forces to prevent friendly fire incidents, and to monitor the state of events on both sides of the river.

Mere ilake main aye to gaand mein Smerch bhonk dunga (I will poke Smerch in their ass if they intrude in my area), came a growl from the audience. Rizwi stole a fleeting glance at the bellicose Lt Gen Jaiswal, and then decided to continue. The army brass, used to Gen Jaiswal’s ways, took the interruption with suppressed smiles. The briefing continued…

What about the Israelis? This was from LtGen Ashwini Sharma, GOCinC, Southern Command. A glance at the Chief; a nod. Sir, they have indicated a desire to uhh get involved. The possibilities are being explored, but in any case this will be an Indian run show.

Now let me talk in brief about the situation in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Our intel sources can confirm that all Chinese units have now left Bangladeshi territory. Their forces in Tibet have not been mobilized beyond alert levels, and we see no evidence of any logistics buildups that would be necessary for them to intervene. Politically, as well, we have received informal indications that they have had enough of the mess, and will wash their hands off any further involvement. As regards Bangladesh, the increasing turmoil due to deportations from India and due to the deteriorating economic situation has made the ruling junta more and more unpopular. The strains with their Pakistani and jehadi backers have been increasing as well. Our assessment is that the increasing fissures in the east made the Pakistani leadership tip their hand. Their initial plans were to sit tight and let Indian attacking forces bleed themselves against an inner ring of iron. But their forces have had to be scattered to fight the growing anti Pakistan riots in Bangladesh. We think that the authorization to attack Indian shipping and naval vessels was a sign of desperation. In any case, that tactical gain for them gave us the primary causus bellum, since they could no longer hide behind a veil of deniability. Bangladesh has no submarines, and even if Khalid had escaped, the fact that our ship was lost to a submarine is sufficient for us to make an international case to interpret it as an act of war. Subsequent air force attacks have only buttressed our case.

“I hope we are not going to indulge in another pissing match, sir” growled Lt Gen Avadhesh Kumar Jaiswal, GOCinC, Southwestern Command. The hositilities have been reduced to a farce! Are we to sit by idly while those flyboys and sailors indulge in their naher waali gali nautankis? Let’s get on with the real fighting, for God’s sake!

As he seethed internally, Rizwi wondered why three successive chiefs put their personal reputation on line to get this loud brawler promoted! But then, the brawler had ended up on top in quite a few fights, and not all of them against the enemy! The Army was not a place for shrinking violets, and Avadhesh Jaiswal had a record to make the sternest blanch… so he survived and prospered, and now looked poised for the brawl of his life!

“Timing, Avadhesh, timing” soothed the indulgent Gen Tomar. We needed to get our political and international environment in order before we made our main move. Hang in there, and you will see that we won’t test your patience much longer! Even Avadhesh knew when enough was enough, and he leaned back slightly to indicate he was done. At least for now.

Rizwi continued. Pakistani economy continues to be drip fed with foreign assistance, but there are indications that the upcoming IMF consortium for Pakistan meeting next month will take a very dim view of their pangaas. The Pakistani leadership may be tempted to make a big move before that. Their fighting men and populace are already feeling more and more concerned about the continuing tensions with us, and the leadership needs to do something big and decisive to retain its hold.

What do you expect their next move to be? This was from LtGen Trinath Singh, GOCinC, Western Command.

Very likely in your area, sir. Their Army Reserve North has already started showing signs of building up its war reserves, and we have noticed their units slowly beginning to move to their forward areas. All the movement is well disguised with all the mobilization already underway, but we have observed their SSG teams beginning to probe our forward posts. That, and their probing arty attacks, are our best indicators about the nature of their next move. We at DIA are working from the assumption that their navy and airforce have already been given bloody noses and will not likely undertake major adventures anytime soon. Their remaining assets are likely to be husbanded very carefully now for their homeland defense in the coming weeks.

How is their overall posture? Gen Sharma probed again.

Sir, so far they have stretched their defensive forces out in anticipation to a sudden strike from us. But they are holding back Army Reserve South, as we expected. Their war reserves are good for a couple of weeks, but beyond that, we expect any further progress to be greeted by nukes.

We’ll come to related measures in Dick’s presentation, so hold off on those questions.

To be continued
Last edited by Y I Patel on 22 Jul 2005 20:41, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Y I Patel » 20 Jul 2005 03:16

The Huddle, Part 2

After Admiral Rizwan Ahmed finished his presentation, it was Lt General Diwakaran (Dick) Raghunath’s turn as the DGMO.

As you know, gentlemen, the parliament has now formally declared war on Pakistan. The armed forces have obtained a political mandate for the coming hostilities – recent overt attacks by Pakistani military units on our civilian and military targets is seen by us an overt act of war, and we will now seek the political dismemberment of Pakistan in addition to restitution of democratically elected Bangla leadership. The political leadership has also given a green signal for an all-out war on two fronts. Nuclear weapons will be readied for a second strike if necessary, but no, repeat, no clearance has been given for any unilateral use of nuclear weapons or intermediate to long range ballistic missiles. Conventional short range missiles will require Integrated HQ clearance and will be considered on a case by case basis.

Now I shall go straight to the broad parameters of your objectives and orders. Please set up meetings between your principals and my staff to coordinate your detailed plans with my office and AM Malhotra’s office (Air Marshal Ashutosh Malhotra was Director General, Joint Operations).

Let’s begin with the Eastern Command. Hormaz (referring to Lt Gen Hormaz Bandhukwala, GOCinC, Eastern Command) your command has the political objective to reinstate the democratically elected Bangladeshi government. Your military objectives are to shatter the Bangladeshi and Pakistani military forces with multiple thrusts, thus creating the climate for a sustainable reentry for the Bangla governement in exile. You are also tasked with eliminating jehadi centres and locating any remaining nuclear weapons in their or Pakistani possession. You will conduct multiple thrusts to achieve your objectives, and your proposal for a joint amphibious operation await IHQ clearance. The needs for joint operations will be balanced against possible amphibious initiatives in Sindh. You will have under your command 3, 4, and 33 corps, and IBG 616.

At this, the normally quiet and affable officer sat up in protest. I was promised the joint force, Kharga, and IBG 606! As you are aware, there is a significant Pakistani arty and armoured presence in Bangladesh! How are my boys going to be able to achieve the ambitious tasks laid out for them with these diminsihed forces?

Gen Tomar intervened. I understand your concerns, Hormaz. But the joint amphibious operation is being held in reserve to exploit strategic opportunities on either front. We had originally planned for only one front, and you did have tentative approval for the forces you speak of. But now we have an entirely new front, and the forces are sorely needed over there. Besides, we believe that the simultaneous attacks on both fronts will have a powerful impact on the Pakistanis in Bangladesh, and we expect their morale to plummet when they hear that their own homes are being attacked. So your objectives will get a huge helping hand when Avadhesh hammers them with Kharga and IBG 606. Hormaz still looked dissatisfied, but he had to accept the chief’s arguments. He had his objections on record; now he kept his peace and sat back to listen to the briefing as it rolled on. Avadhesh looked like the cat who had swallowed the canary.
Last edited by Y I Patel on 22 Jul 2005 20:45, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Dileep » 20 Jul 2005 11:28

the parliament has now formally declared war on Pakistan

Moron's question: Won't this discussion happen before the formal war declaration? I thought the formal declaration happens just before the force crosses the line.

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Postby Rich » 21 Jul 2005 02:39

I would like to request Singha to unleash his talent again and give us some more action in the Northeast. :)

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Postby sbangera » 21 Jul 2005 15:22

The recent loss of their naval ships was a big political setback to the Pakistani leadership as well. We expect that they may be planning a big retaliatory strike sometime soon.

Hey, when were the PN ships sunk. Did someone "sink" the sinking of their ships?

PS: Pathetic sense of humor!!!

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Postby Babui » 21 Jul 2005 19:28

YiP - nice briefing...but u got ahead of the story. The junta wants to see the Paki Navy feel some serious pain in the seas east of the Lakshadweep. Some Sea Eagles ripping through rusting steel......Paki sailors entombed in the dark depths........that kind of stuff :D :D

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Postby Surya » 21 Jul 2005 19:42

Sorry - I don't like Shankars scenarios - tooo Tom clancyish.

Guys we are making the mistakes the Pakis do - underestimating or thinking they will behave the same. ie not capable of strategic thinking

what if someone does.

It is easy to make the janta happy ala TC but then we crticize him when he entertains the Ameriki janta.

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Postby Y I Patel » 21 Jul 2005 21:21

Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency, Babui! I was indeed getting ahead of the plot. Have edited that portion. Patchy editing, but hopefully will suffice.

The next installment of "The Huddle" later today.

A lot of the things that have already happened could not have happened without formal declaration of war by either side. Remember, there were no hositilities between Nazi Germany and the western allies (UK, France) for almost six months after declaration of war! They termed the period "Sitzkreig". We are seeing something similar in this free form story :)

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Postby Y I Patel » 21 Jul 2005 23:18

The Huddle - Part 3

Gen. Raghunath moved on.

Now I will go over the commands on the western front, from north to south.

Dilawar, (Lt Gen Dilawar Singh Garewal) your objective is to rationalize the LOC. Repeated attempts to convert it into IB have been fruitless, so the political leadership has given us the go ahead to capture territory to make our sarhads more defensible in the areas under your command. You are free to inform your men that the government has conveyed its firm resolve that no captured areas will be returned after the hostilities end. For your tasks, you have 14, 15, and 16 Corps.

Will 6 Infantry be released to me as requested? Gen Garewal asked. Yes, Army HQ has released 6 Infantry from its strategic reserve role. Please confirm movement plans with DGML (Director General, Military Logistics). Gen Garewal nodded with satisfaction at that, and Gen Raghunath continued.

Tir, (Lt Gen Trinath Joshi, GOCinC Western Command) you have dual responsibilities. You are responsible for defending the most politically sensitive territory in the country, and the loss of even an inch will be uacceptable. However, you are also charged with making spoiling attacks to tie down the bulk of Pakistani forces, especially ARN and 4 Corps. We can not spare any additional divisions for you, but 40 Arty will be released to you to aid you with your plans. You are authorized to conduct a battle of attrition or even limited advances into enemy territory, as the situation warrants. You have 9 and 11 corps under your command.

Tir was not a person given to too many words. A slight incline of the head was all the response Raghunath got.

Avadhesh, you have the responsibility for the main offensive in the western front. Your military objective is to sever Pakistan’s N-S LCs, and to smash its main offensive formations in Army Reserve South. For this, 2 corps, 41 Arty, and IBG 606 will be released to you in addition to your 10 and 1 corps. Your attack has been identified as the major effort on either front, for its strategic as well as political impact.

Gen Tomar chipped in. Avadhesh, you should know the world’s eyes will be on you. If your attack shows any signs of faltering, our friends may feel the need to step in. If any of the other offensives fail to make headway, we will be okay. But the Indian Army’s izzat is on line with your offensive.

I will not fail the Army, sir. Gen Jaiswal returned the room's gaze defiantly.

Gen Tomar thought, destiny has chosen a strange instrument! Like Gen Tomar and so many others of IA’s officer corps, Avadhesh came from a fairly humble background – he was the son of a shopkeeper in Allahabad, and had strayed into the army thinking he would strike it easy in the ASC. Fate, and an uncooperative IMA selections committee had decided otherwise, and Avadhesh was saddled with a commission in the Mahar Regiment. He would have probably retired as some nondescript Colonel, had his talent for getting things done not been recognized during that fateful crisis of Sumdarong Chu. He was a brigade major at that time, and his brigade had been ordered to rush to the Tawang Plateu by blazing a new route. As is often the case in India, an uncooperative conservator of forests was holding things up by not granting permission to fell trees. By a strange series of coincidences, some ULFA men managed to escape from the army unit holding them, and kidnapped the inconvenient conservator. His terror struck deputy had no compunctions signing the requisite forms in triplicate, and Brigadier Mallik’s formation was among the first to make it to their posts and stare down the Chinese. Brigadier Mallik was a rising star, not least with his political connections to a certain MS Yadav. And so, till Lt Gen Mallik’s retirement a decade later, Avadhesh was able to hitch his wagon to a star. As he blazed his own unconventional trail through the army, Avadhesh began to aquire a fan following of his own – hard men like Bishnu Mohanty, currently GOC 14 Corps. The one event that made him a celebrity among soldiers was when Avadhesh became the Brigadier commanding Siachen Brigade. He happened to be in charge during a particularly harsh winter, and he felt the men were beginning to feel unreasonably sorry about their lot. So his action was typical of Avadhesh – he assembled all available men at the Partapur HQ at the crack of dawn, and proceeded to call them spineless gaandus (homos). Then, to show them how pusillanimous they were, he proceeded to strip down to his birthday suit and took a cold bath from water brought by his orderly. To prove that this was no one time fluke, he made it into a daily ritual, to which all hands on base were invited (the female doctors always seemed to be mysteriously occupied and could never make it for some reason). The morale seemed to perk up after the establishment of that little ritual. In spite of his proven competence, Avadhesh would have ended up DG NCC, had it not been for the active intervention of people like Yashpal Tomar. There were still many in the Army who found Avadhesh’s thick Bhojpuri accent grating, who thought of him as a political manipulator rather than an officer of the old British mold. But the Indian Army had been an army continuously at war, and proven leaders were too precious to be shunted aside. So Avadhesh, like his protégé Bishnu Mohanty, continued to be promoted and given substantial assignments.
Last edited by Y I Patel on 22 Jul 2005 00:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shishir » 21 Jul 2005 23:35

By IBG 1, do you mean battle groups vis-a-vis Cold Start? If so, an orbat of an IBG would be interesting to understand future events! :) In a future post, maybe?


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Postby Priyank » 21 Jul 2005 23:40


A couple of minor points: (1) Isn't the formal declaration of war done by the President? (2) Post Parakram, isn't it likely that a major armoured thrust across the IB will involve more than a single strike corps? 1 Corps and 21 Corps are conspicuous by their absence.

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Postby Singha » 21 Jul 2005 23:49

Shankar pls add this into your battlegroup.

Six months before the crisis, a black 6000t cylinder had been allowed to finally float out of drydock in Vizag after Adm Koshys wife ceremonially broke a coconut against its HY100 steel hull. The resultant splash had rippled within a day around the world via the media.

INS Chola was born .

The product of two decades worth of domestic effort and semi-clandestine obtaining of foreign technology, almost 100 institutions had worked to complete it as a product. The final assembly took place inside a heavily guarded complex in Vizag shipyard, parts came from all over, the reactor came from kalpakkam where it had been ground tested in minute detail for 5 years. Adm Kumaran the man in charge worked tirelessly to keep the program on track and co-ordinate the delicate dance of 1000s of types of equipment needed at various stages of the construction.

For a first SSN, her specs were good, very good - the delay in getting the miniature reactor right had given a chance to incrementally improve everything else just like in the Tejas, delay in flight had improved the electronics. This was no toy SSN for test purposes, she was ship built to wage war and prowl far and wide in search of prey.

In the nose section, a giant spherical sonar sphere occupied the space usually kept for torpedo rooms in conventional SSK. WEESE, BEL, NSTL and Malachit bureau of russia had jointly worked on it adopting certain technologies from Yasen program. behind it 6 inclined 21" torpedo tubes emanated from a torpedo room holding 36 weapons - a mix of heavy torpedoes and Klub ASMs. under the sail with its hydroplanes, a large open plan state of the art control room with glass cockpit style MFDs enabled a small crew of people to control every aspect of the ship.

Just behind the sail, 6 VLS tubes were emplaced like oak trees inside the hull. Capable of launching both Brahmos ASM, Brahmos LACM and the under test Koral 1200km range nuclear tipped SLCM. for now however, Koral was not carried.

Precision made anti-vibration and fluid filled housing separated all machinery from the hull, which was double walled for protection. Sleek black anechoic tiles covered the outside and a single large 8 bladed screw backed by a cruciform tailplane completed the picture. A pumpjet propulsor was planned from the 3rd unit onward. the prop had been a serious problem - nobody in india had ever had a need to make such a huge prop with the infinite degree of precision a good SSN needs. finally the russians had agreed to make their Akula2/Yasen supplier work from indian design drawings and the completed assembly was shifted by ship from northern russia to vizag. specialists from BARC who were the only ones with experience of machining certain things to nanometer level precision had been consultants in putting together the whole drivetrain and machinery inside the vessel.

Low freq passive flank array & towed sonars were mounted also. The conning tower contained passive ESM, active search radar(a miniature CAR from akash), SIGINT aeriels, fully retractable radio and satcom dishes and israeli thermal & optical sensors capable of detecting the wakes of submarines and ships from long distances. 4 VLS cells for Barak-1 SAMs were also mounted for self defence, cued by a rotating IR pod & the mini-CAR. this was meant to take out anti sub aerial assets in a emergency. decoy launch tubes were positioned all around the sub, programmed to mimic the submarines recorded noise at all speeds.

Two escape capsules for the entire crew of 100 were mounted in the
rear above the engine room spaces. Fwd of the bridge a empty cavity in
the hull covered smoothly for time being awaited installation of the NSTL UUV that was in final tests. Around 4m long and 1m wide, it had a 3 knot crusing range of 200km and endurance upto 2 days, equipped with sensitive mine hunting, camera, sigint and noise detecting gear it would permit recon in dangerous or confined spaces where the mother vessel could not enter.

On her shakedown cruise lasting 2 months, many minor problems were fixed. the reactor was found stable. the scientists left and crew came in..the next cruise lasting 2 months helped the crew familiarize themselves
with the ship and its systems. A successful test firing was done for brahmos, klub and a NSTL-HT torpedo.

When the crisis erupted, Chola was initially ordered to stay out action due to her yet incomplete service induction, however on a strong recomendation of Adm Koshy, GHQ-Delhi decided to take a risk and release the vessel into the eastern fleet.

Joining the northern task group to escort the Viraat, time had passed uneventfully....brahmaputra met her end in the ambush..subsequent events led to a fresh order to Chola to relocate along to a position 200 km west of the Laccadive chain and adopt a blocking position against the PN expeditionary force.

5 knots, 75m depth, the INS Chola waited and watched...
Last edited by Singha on 22 Jul 2005 09:43, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Y I Patel » 22 Jul 2005 00:05

IBG 1 will be in a future post, but you have already met its CO - Brigadier Shivinder Singh Randhawa (check the archived thread for his bio).

I had originally forgotten to add that SW Command already has 10 Corps and 1 Corps as its Pivot Corps. I have added that in The Huddle Part 3.

Per Indian Constitution, President acts according to PM's advice. In matters like declaring war, the PM cannot take the decision without the peoples' consent (ie, the parliament's consent). So yes, the president may read the formal announcement but the parliament passes the basic resolution.

PS Just realised I had Shivi as CO of IBG 606 aka IAB 14. let's go with IBG 606. The naming reads more consistent with known IA practices. Will change some posts accordingly - will now have IBG 606 with SW Command and IBG 616 with Eastern Command.

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Postby Y I Patel » 22 Jul 2005 02:32

The Huddle Part 4

Gen Tomar snapped out of his ruminations – Gen Ashwini Sharma had just been informed that his political objective was to promote the secession of Sindh by investing the two major population centers – Karachi and Hyderabad. He was to bypass engagements with major formations as best as possible, and proceed with maximum speed towards the population centers. He had just two corps to work with though – 12 Corps and 21 Corps. So he was wondering if he could count on a joint task force comprising of all three branches would be released to him for investing Karachi (note to readers – investing is like laying siege. It means a place is surrounded or continuously attacked, without necessarily occupying it or sealing it tight. This is an important distinction in military terms from saying that a city is to be occupied). Gen Tomar decided that he should respond to Gen Sharma’s questions, because of the policy overtones…

Ashwini, you will have to submit plans with what you have in hand. As you know, the major naval task force is already deployed with the eastern fleet, so swinging major units around will take time. That is a diversion and distraction we can do without right now. However, you can rest assured that the navy and air force have both committed to major supporting initiatives in your area of operations, to keep the Pakistanis occupied. We may, in fact, be hearing some news of major naval action sometime soon, hopefully! You should note that the last remaining HQ reserve is 50 Para Brigade. We are saving that to exploit openings in the Northern Command sector, or in yours. Let’s see which of one of you makes a better case for getting it. Gen Tomar smiled wickedly at that, because he knew the effect it would have on the two very ambitious and competitive generals. Now let me ask Ashutosh to give us a broad overview of the joint operations.

Thank you sir, said Air Marshal Ashutosh Malhotra. As you know, the defense reorganization over the past decade has resulted in significant changes in the way we plan our operations. The debates in the early part of this decade have shaped the structure we see today, and the coming operations will be the first real test of these doctrines and structures. The joint forces structure we see today is a uniquely Indian animal – the operations and fighting formations of the three services are still under command of the respective service chiefs. The Integrated Defense Staff is responsible for making sure that the operations culminate out of joint planning, rather than planning for joint operations commanded by a single service officer. We came to this compromise because of India’s unique geographic situation when it comes to fighting wars. Given the size of our fronts and the diverse geography, it makes eminent sense to have the Army divide its operational responsibilities among commands that now have a strong correlation to geography. On the other hand, our air force is still a relatively small force compared to say USAF and USN. Furthermore, the range and speed of modern combat aircraft mean that the air force does not face the same geographic constraints that the army does. In fact, dispersing air combat assets to dedicated units would work against the primary warfighting principle of concentration of force. We in the IDS have been working under these guiding principles, and the land operations you have so far been briefed will be fully supported by IAF and IN. This does not mean, however, that you will be able to order tactical strikes at will. We do not have the luxury of a long preparatory period where we can bomb strategic targets to rubble before we move in with the land forces. So we have to improvise our target selection lists to achieve maximum coordination, without jeopardizing air dominance or the longer range conventional strategic targeting that represents the true application of air power. There is one exception to this general principle of not dispersing air power. Each of the two IBGs have a dedicated flight of our latest acquisitions – F18Is. Our exercises and officer exchange programs with USAF and USN have shown us that the F18 is a uniquely powerful platform when it comes to controlling and directing tactical level operations. In other words, with their unparalleled AESA radars, EW and secure communications assets, these systems are best used not as strike or air superiority aircraft, but as aircraft that can help direct large groups of combat assets. The Americans first started using the Hornets in this manner as airborne forward air controllers in their Serbian campaign, to locate and destroy small Serb units and SAM batteries. They perfected the techniques in Afghanistan and in the initial conventional part of their Iraq war. The IAF has come to appreciate the unique synergies that can be generated by combined teams of Su30MKIs, Mirage 2000s, and F18Is, and the plans call for dedicated flights of 4 F18s with each of the two IBGs, to act as their mini JSTARS, airborne forward air controllers, and first line of aerial defense.

Not all landlubbers were unaware of this trend – officers like Trinath Joshi and Hormaz Bandhukwala had already provided substantial intellectual inputs in developing this integrated warfare doctrine – but the idea that their concepts would be put to test by cold hard reality had a very sobering effect on the entire audience. There were a few more questions about ammunition lines, and Gen Sridharan was at hand to handle those, along with questions about movements of follow on formations. After that, the assembled generals realized that the remaining technical questions would have to be ironed out by their staffs with IDS, DGMO, and DGML, and their questions slowly petered out. Sensing that the meeting was coming to an end, Gen Tomar got up for a final word.

Gentlemen, there you are. The balloon will go up soon. We have prepared our entire careers for this eventuality, and destiny has chosen us as its humble instruments at this unique moment in history. It is going to be very bloody and painful, and there will inevitably be questions about what could have been done differently or better. But as Ved sahib (Gen VP Malik) said during Kargil, we have to fight with what we have and who we are. I have known all of you since you were cadets, and I could not ask for a better team. I trust you to carry out your duties with competence and honor. God bless. Jai Hind!

And with a climactic eruption of Teen Jai, the Huddle ended.

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Postby Shirish » 22 Jul 2005 02:49

Guruji- Use the term 'bow' , and not 'nose'.
What are incling torpedoes going to do for ? Just more effort to open doors.

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Postby ramana » 22 Jul 2005 03:02

Shirish Please call me.

Guruji can you compare them to Palm or coconut trees rather than oaks. Oaks are very bushy!

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Postby Singha » 22 Jul 2005 09:33

Shirish, the spherical bow sonar makes it necessary to incline the torpedo tubes sideways rather than point straight ahead. same as on other SSNs with such kit.

substitute Oak with "pacific redwood" then.

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Postby viktor » 22 Jul 2005 17:05

YIP bhai, F-18I....thats interesting. Nice twist in the story. May be they can be squeezed in previous air combat scenarios. :twisted:

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Postby Singha » 22 Jul 2005 17:18

vision:spring morning, barren clean expanse of leh afb. ravishing PYT in red salwar has come to visit her boyfriend Sqdn leader on a F-18I unit based there. "Kaha hei wo?" standing forlornly on the tarmac, wind blowing her clothing..to the base commander. "Aa rahe honge"...camera suddenly pulls away, climbs and rotates towards a hill on end of runway from behind which two sleek grey F-18Is execute a sliding turn back from night patrol and line up for a landing.

A deep baritone voice says sagely in the background - "Bharatiya Vayu Sena - hamesha satark"

scene gently fades out as the F-18 rolls slowly towards the girl and she runs to meet him while 2 more sleek MKIs scream down the runway in back and take off to join the patrol grid.
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Postby viktor » 22 Jul 2005 17:39

Now thats really dramatic.

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Postby Shirish » 22 Jul 2005 18:13

Ramanaji- can u send number to usual email address ? have been in islands for 2 months.

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Postby bhavani » 22 Jul 2005 21:00

Singha sir,

man gaye, Kya scene hai, One more please. Tom clancy must learn a bit from you

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Postby Shankar » 23 Jul 2005 13:28

Capt pathan was was pondering over his decision to pass sp close to indian mainlands in contrast to usal route taken by earlier route east of the island chain and he once again recapitulated the the present day scenario and came to the same conclussion
- The indian navy has rapidly built up its maritime strike capabiliyin recent times
-the long range Tu-142 were even now keeping him under close survilance
-the oil tanker was slowing them down considerably
- if the indian navy decides to strike they can do eiether side of the island chain anyway
- he still had his harpoons ,the first time dispalyed to world media during visit to staton island in usa incorporated by replacing the exocet batteries
Still he felt something which couldnot put a finger on . So he took an obviuos decision -ordered flank speed to all the frigates though in pakistan navy circle they are named as destroyers for reasons only to the headquarter based desk admirals.

0700 hrs Kochi airport
-Tower eagle flight -request permission to take off
- eagle flight -tower -you are cleared for take of -fly runway heading and climb to 5000 ft - resume own navigation only after clearing low altitude airways -you are cleared at all altitude below 5000 ft til grid vector-charlie
- good hunting

The four jaguars took off in sequence with a single sea eagle missile on the central pylon and two matra magic aam s on rather unusal overwing pylons with a shrill whine typical of these twin engined strike aircaft . They retracted the undercarriages even before clearing the airport perimeter and flaps on reaching 3000 ft . At 5000 ft the jaguars made a sharp bank south wards and started loosing altitude .very soon they were flying just inside the coast line barely 150 ft over sea level skimming the numerous tall coconut trees and startling the village women who have just started their days work in paddy fields that dot the coastal countryside..The were to follow a complicated flight profile so as to reach the target zone just 5 minutes before the navy choppers comming in from the target . The primary strike was eagle flights responsibility and on that depended the success of the mission .

-Clear deck for hello launch
The red jaketed armourers rushed thru the final check of of uploaded sea eagles and took of the safety arming pins before rushing out of the huge rotors which have already started rotating slowly
Pelican flight you are cleared for take off
- roger tower -cleared for take off

The four sea kings lifted off from the large hanger decks of the two destryers and pitched forward to gain airspeed in cacaphony of noise and smoke . Each of them were carrying the max load of 2 comparitively heavy anti ship missiles . And their targets have already pushing forward at max speed to minimise the range advantage of urans onboard

As the sea kings dissappeared over the southern horizon the public address system blared once again

- all personnel man battle stations
- Missile crew check and clear system for immnent launch

The war has begun

PN TIPU SULTAN - 0730 hrs
Capt pathan decided to risk a helo launch .The smart british made lynx took off and swiched on te air search radar . the situation around cleared up quickly as well as the indian naval intent
- Captain sir, we have four fixed wing low flying target - 070 - speed 500knots - bearing changing to 180 - possible four ship jaguar formation
- range 100 miles
- four helos - 110 miles -bearing 105 -speed 135 knots
- 2 surface target -possibly delhi class - range 175 miles - bearing 020
speed - 36 knots

Capt pathan didnot hesitate - his orders were quick and precise
he did not intend go down without a fight even if the outcome this battle may not go in pakistans favour
- all personnel to battle stations
- all phlanx system to full auto
- prepare harpoon s to fire as soon as within range
- all sam stations -u are weapons free at all targets within range

Eagle flight 0800 hrs
The four jaguars came in from the south east at less than 100 ft from the frothy wave tops of arabian sea. They spred out in a fan tail formation and climbed to 500 ft for the missiles seeker heads to get a good lock on the target at the warships still beyond the visual range . One by one the IAF pilots pushed open the hard plastic fire button cover selected their individual targets and squeezed gently . The navigation data sped from the attack computers to the missile memory chip thru the pylon socket type data interface and a second later the electromagnetic latch holding the missile in position opened dropping the heavy missile into the slipstream . the built in accelerometer sensed the change in speed and triggered the small pyrotecnique charge embeded in the rocket motor and the missile shot forward ina plume of dense white smoke .

Pelican flight - 0810 hrs
- --------------
-Eagle flight have launched and broken off 090 -request permission to engage target
- Pelican flight you are cleared to engae target at max effective range
clear area quickly - exit 295 at max speed .

Once again the four seakings launched their missiles 2 per ship and banked quickly right out of harms way

- Clear deck for missile launch - the computer synthesised voice came on once again .
The first uran anti hip missile took to air on a plume of smoke and fire . The accompanying roar was like a rolling thunder and before the crew had time to adjust to the anticipated shock -the second missile fired this from a different launcer . Two more followed and then it was Mysores turn .
Within 7 minutes 8 long range urans have been fired 4 from each ship at a range of just under 100 kms and then the ships reduced speed and reversed course quickly to escape the harpoons they knew will surely come .

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Postby Shankar » 24 Jul 2005 12:55

-captain ,reported the air serach radar operator - we have four sea skimmer inbound at 580 knots -range to target 90 kms - air launched sea eagle type bearing rapidly changing -flight profile dog legged
- 8 more air launched missiles -speed 540 knots - range to target 110 kms - bearing 045

- captain we have 8 more ship launched missile -type SS-N-25 switch blade ,range 100 lms -bearing 030

For Captain pathan the oprions have closed down rapidly over the last minute .The indian have done the unthinkable - they have launched a multi axis salvo attack with long range anti ship missiles while still out of his harpoon range . On an average his ships had about 5 incommings each and their time to targe less than 10 minutes

- break formation - carry on zig zag manuvares - deploy radar counter measures independently - flank speed .

he did not order the harpoon to launch simply because the indian destryers were outside his effective range - launching missiles with all crews manning the sam missiles and flanx on full auto is a sure recipe for disaster . The most vaunted weapon of pakistan navy could not even be considered for use in fron of an overwhelming indian long range maritime strike . His only hope waa effectiveness of his chineese sam system -never tried in combat and the much proven phalanx close in rapid fire guns .

The chaff cartiges rocketed out of the ships side and at a distance of 250-400 ft started popping off a cloud of aluminised polyester film shredding in a futile attempt to confuse the incomming sea eagles closely followed by the urans .

The germans pioneered the use of anti ship guided missiles with fritx-x and hs-293 glide bombs. But these were essentially guided weapons and could be used against any target with few special optimisations for naval targets. The us made bat was the true ancestor of modern anti ship missiles .It used a radar seeker to lock on to the target and could perform a fire and forget attack. Yhe radar seeker was simple and could even then pick up a ship from sea .The first modern anti ship missile were deployed in 1960 s . They were characterised by aguidance system with three elements .
1) a gyroscopic inertial navigation system to get the missile from aircraft or ship to the vicinity of the target.The general location of the target was designated by the fire control system of the launch platform.
2) A radar altimeter to allow the missile to cruise at low altitude over the waves making it more difficult to detect and intercept. Cruise altitude was programable for rough and smooth sea condition .
3) a terminal seeker that was activated when the missile was close to target to allow it to zero in on the target . Though active radar seekers were mainly used ,passive infra red seeker were used to in some cases.

Once launched the operation of these missiles is generally autonomous.-making them amonst the first of fire and forget weapon systems.
The sea eagles missiles now russhing towards the PN flotila was equipped with semi armour piercing warhead which was essentially a hard cased blast fragmentation warhead with delayed action fuse that will allow the sea eagles to pentrate the hull befor exploding .they were also fitted with a secondary proximity fuse which would allow the missile to explode even if decoyed by the chaff cloud or a near miss situation.

The sea eagles launched from the jaguars were fired with programmed flight path of 5 mtrs over sea level and biased to search right of the flight path . the sea eagles fired from the sea kings were programmed to fly at 3.5 mtrs over the wave top and to search target left of the flight path . The net ressult was the four pakistani ships were attacked by sea skimming missiles from both port and starboard and they the dead straight the urans were flying in. They had no where to run..

At 20 kms from the target the sea eagles switched on their frequency agile radar seeker head to burn thru jamming effort of the pakistani ships 2 of the sea eagles armed with infra red seeker heads immediatelocked onto the hot turbines of Tipu sultan and started terminal strike moves .

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Postby Shankar » 25 Jul 2005 11:46

one by one the missiles slammed into their target wrecknig pure havoc -death and total destruction . The pakistani sailors and officers faught back valiantly ,with evrything they had but that was not enough . 3 of the sea eagles they managed to shoot down with highly effcetive phalanx close in weapon system before one of the missiles hit the bridge superstructure housing the antenas and the data link cables to the guns and then it was pure mayhem . One sea eagle pentrated the hull but did not explode its somewhat delicate firing mechanism damaged by impact . The rest found their target and the nett ressult was catastrophic.

The fleet oiler exploded like a FAE bomb when a sea eagle penettrated an empty hold and exploded igniting the fuel vapour in the confined volume .

The other ships fought back too but it was a battle they were not destined to win . One by one the secondary explossions started in their missile magazines and in their fuel tanks and in their armoury .

By the time the urans arrived over the target zone none of the pakistani ships were moving any more and all were on fire . Their robotic brain did not differentiate between a dying ship and a fighting ship and so decided to lock on penetrate and detonate again and again .

Capt Pathan gave order to abndon ship less than 45 minutes from the time the attack began -the other ships soon followed . In less than 2 hrs the surface of the she was virgin again except the huge oil sleeks and more than six hundred pakistani navy personnel all over a ten sq kms area -holding onto whatever they could find -hoping some one will help out .

The help did come ,they came in form of same sea kings which have launched the deady sea eagles in the first place ,they cam in form of coast guard boats out of kochi harbour which was waiting for just such a situation developing . The search and rescue operation launched by the navy was the largest ever with almost the entire southern naval command pitching in to the effort . At the end 530 pakistani naval personnel could be saved and some mutilated bodies were also recovered by saving the living was accorded highest priority .

Like Midway -this battle will go down the history of indian navy as the battle of Minicoy and the conduct of the battle discussed and analysed over and over again by indian and russian staff colleges for years to come.

Capt pathan was rescued with abroken arm by one of the seakings . He did not want to go back to pakistan and face inevitable court martiall. He was given political assylum and now serves as a naval analyst in institute of sytrategic studies under a different identity .

All other pakistani naval personnel ,after they have been declared medically fit was returned to their home land after a short stay and debriefing in indian naval establishments . All of them somehow were reluctant to go back for reasons unknown .

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Postby Singha » 25 Jul 2005 11:59

I havent been following this thread closely. I read the PNS Khalid was sunk. did the PNS Saad (2nd Agosta) survive the BoB episodes ?

I am all dressed up with INS Chola with nowhere to go, might have to advance the timeline of PNS Hamza (3rd Agosta) or go after a older Agosta if there's nothing to eat :roll:

yeah that sounds good - I have an idea twisted:

with destruction of the PN SAG complete, the ELF facility sent out new sailing orders to the lone indian submarine in the area - the still under trials INS Chola. "Relocate to point alpha_89101 100km off Mumbai and assume search patrol to sanitize area north of convoy route Blue to Aden". deep below the surface, the Cholas single screw speeded up and the whale shape surged forward...designed with a speed of 30knots submerged , in trial runs she had managed a max of 31.5 knots before the captain backed off pushing her harder.

Mumbai harbour lay thick with long merchant ships loading and unloading the products of a hundred countries. Since hostilities a convoy route Blue had been established to Aden, escorted by LRMP a/c and IN submarines strung out in a protective chain. A couple of frigates escorted each convoy of around 30 ships which started their run every 4 days. Nothing of note had happened so far.

But life as usual is always changing....

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Postby Sharma » 25 Jul 2005 15:45


Capt pathan was rescued with abroken arm by one of the seakings . He did not want to go back to pakistan and face inevitable court martiall. He was given political assylum and now serves as a naval analyst in institute of sytrategic studies under a different identity .

All other pakistani naval personnel ,after they have been declared medically fit was returned to their home land after a short stay and debriefing in indian naval establishments . All of them somehow were reluctant to go back for reasons unknown .

All was very good except the lines quoted above. This is insult to a soldier. I think you have over done a little bit.

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Postby Singha » 25 Jul 2005 17:03

since YIP is organizing a political re-org of TSP , I feel Capt Pathan may well just R&R in POW camp until the regime change takes place.

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Postby Y I Patel » 25 Jul 2005 19:53


If it is true that man makes God in his own image, then Shiva is certainly an archetype of the Hindu psyche: an eternal patsy; quick to please; credulous to the point of being gullible; generous to a fault. Time after time, scheming Asuras cajoled the most incredible blessings from him, and it is left to the shrewd Vishnu to find appropriate loopholes and save gods and men from the devastating aftereffects of Shiva’s wanton bounty! But Shiva has his other side too – when He gets angry, He reduces puny beings to ashes with His third eye. Men, demons and gods are terrified, the universe trembles when He flies into a rage and becomes Rudra, the destroyer of worlds. Then he takes up his dumroo, and dances the apocalyptic dance of destruction…


The hulking creature lay somnolently in the depths of the mahasagar, floating like a hole of silence among the creatures of the deep. The urgent whispers from a faraway place woke it from its slumber - it began to stir quietly; then opened its many eyes…

Inhabitants at dozens of places were jerked awake from their sleep by the wailing of a thousand banshees. Ethereal vibrations from Sarang filled the air; and a steady percussive booming began to shake dwellings. Pinaka twanged its bloodcurdling melody.

Then, the unearthly symphony picked up tempo. Hundreds of birds of prey took to the sky and pirouetted with deadly thunderbolts in their talons. Hulking sheshnags from Pataal lumbered across the dark land, their bellies pregnant with Yama’s chargers. The tranquil waters of the seas were shredded as scores of monsters erupted in fearsome activity. And across the land, a million tiny creatures flung themselves into choreographed frenzy. On land, in skies, on and under seas, the creatures spat venom at the command of a raging and vengeful master.

The skies over Pakistan and Bangladesh opened up. Thousands of vajras hammered the land, until Dhara shuddered and convulsed in agony. A thousand infernos erupted, the air was filled with an aandhi of fire, dust, blood.

Awed messages sped the news to realms far and wide: Rudra had been aroused. Tandav had begun.
Last edited by Y I Patel on 26 Jul 2005 00:30, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby Y I Patel » 25 Jul 2005 19:58

Take it away guys. This is too broad a canvas for one person. Remember to think big!

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Postby bhavani » 25 Jul 2005 20:10

I did not understand the posts about lord shiva. where are we taking this thread to. I dont think we need to introduce religion into the mixture.

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