Religion Thread 1

Murugan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4191
Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Smoking Piskobidis

Post by Murugan »

[quote]Who are these 33 Devas?

(They are) 8 Vasus, 11 Rudras and 12 Aadityas. Thus (numbering) 31. (By adding to them) Indra and Prajaapati, they become 33.

What are the Vasus?

Agni (fire), Earth, Wind, Antariksha (the space between the earth and heaven), Aaditya (the Sun), Dyaus (i.e. celestial region), Candramas (the Moon) and Nakshatras (stars). These are called “Vasusâ€
Raju

Post by Raju »

Kashyap wrote: But before doing so it might be helpful to be clear about the term 'Christian': Sinhalese are not always good at making subtle or even obvious distinctions and think that all Christians are the same. Today in Sri Lanka there are two main types of Christians. There are the traditional mainline ones (Catholics, Anglicans, Dutch Reformers, Methodists, etc) who have been in the country for a century or more and generally have a "live and let live" attitude towards Buddhists and Hindus. Then there are the evangelical, born again and fundamentalist Christians (Assemblies of God. Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Charismatics etc). These Christians are relative newcomers to the country and have an agenda to convert as many people as possible. It is this second group who are raising concern although Sinhalese Buddhists do not always distinguish between them and the first group. I will refer to this second group as evangelical Christians.

FULL STORY: http://www.geocities.com/focussrilanka/perspective.htm
Kashyap, great find.

It shows that both modern-day Islamism/EJism are the twin-pronged strategy with the same goal and that is to divide and create turmoil in societies using subliminal propaganda targeted at those sections of the populations they perceive to be psychologically vulnerable, and it is funded by a mutually indistinguishable organization. Considering the impact this twin-pronged psy-attack has had on populations in India, as is evident from the threads on BRF and expression of fears in society, this is of deepest strategic importance. The strategic implications of the 'religion thread' is probably paramount.

Psychological Vulnerability Index of populations was mapped and found out through various benign sounding social studies sponsored through various benign fronts like western universities and Institutions etc.

This is part of the old plan to first divide the people using hatred and then to impose a new order on them. The older variation of this policy was divide and rule.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

Raju wrote: Psychological Vulnerability Index of populations was mapped and found out through various benign sounding social studies sponsored through various benign fronts like western universities and Institutions etc.
I have heard this before. I recall reading a document from some Church sponsored study that referred to populations that might be vulnerable.
But I would like to see these studies and what methods have been used.

I basically want to find out whether these were effective studies that produced the desired results or are e chasing strawmen.

If we are NOT chasing strawmen. would it be so difficult to conduct further studies to make use of such information to counter any divisive plans that may have been effected.

If science has been applied by religion, surely we must look at it via science and not superstition and rumor.

So someone please fish out these mysterious studies and post them on here.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

When people refer to "vulnerable populations" in India, what makes them vulnerable?

Does their vulnerability extend to any religion that could be peddled, or is vulnerability typically a quid pro quo of taking on religion and getting paid for that in some other way?

For the people who lament that 'Hindus are being converted" what characteristics in the target population made them Hindu in the first place?

If the target population themselves were not convinced of their unshakeable Hinduness, surely Hindus can have missionaries to work on these people just like anyone else.

But Hindus haven't bothered with this have they?

They are watching and are now in a state of panic.

How many wealthy Indian temples train and send out missionaries to help "vulnerable sections" of Indian society.

Is it possible thatthe holiest of holies from wealthy Indian temples are small men who will lose their purity if they go out and work with some sections of Indian society. This is a harsh allegation I am making, but I see Christian missionaries working on "vulnerable section" more than any Hindus.
Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3866
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Post by Kakkaji »

shiv wrote:How many wealthy Indian temples train and send out missionaries to help "vulnerable sections" of Indian society.

Is it possible thatthe holiest of holies from wealthy Indian temples are small men who will lose their purity if they go out and work with some sections of Indian society. This is a harsh allegation I am making, but I see Christian missionaries working on "vulnerable section" more than any Hindus.
IIRC, the funds of Hindu Temples are expropriated by the Government.

There are 'Hindu Missionaries' that work with vulnerable sections of society in the areas of education, nutrition, sanitation, vocational training, and health care. But their work has alarmed the 'seculars' so much that they are regularly derided in the media. Even on BRF they are called 'thugs'.

Despite all these invectives, these people continue their good work in a quiet and sustained manner, and have accomplished a lot more in the field than what we have done through endless discussions on BRF.
asprinzl
BRFite
Posts: 408
Joined: 08 Sep 2004 05:00

Post by asprinzl »

Folks, honestly the is NOTHING WRONG in idol worship. What is the yard stick with which to measure if Monotheism is good or bad compared to Polytheism? Its one claim over another.

Sadly, in the last century or so Hindu thinkers, under assault from the supposedly superior Monotheism have come up with explanations about in such a way to narrow the gap between Idol worshipping and non-idol worshipping monotheism. What has this achieved but to confuse the regular man in the street as to what the hell is he worshipping.

Idol worshipping? There is nothing inferior in it. There is nothing to be ashamed about it. It is a form of worship. The Greeks had them. That is why it was so natural and easy for Alexander the walk into a HIndu place of worship and offer his prayers to a Hindu God. It was as natural as walking into a temple of Zeus, Mercury, Athena or Jupiter. The Romans had them. Almost all the nations during antiquity were into it. Mercury, Jupiter and Zeus may sound exotic but it may have been the localized version of none other than whatever Hindu idols.

Persians/Zoroastrians were the first nation to practise monotheism. Human beings have a natural need for multiple forms of devotions. If there had single god, they would needs multiple saints or holymen to compensate for the lack of gods. So Muslims of all walks need their Muhammad, Hussein, Ali, Chistis and even Bin Laden as idols. The Christians too have such elements in their religion.

As to the Lingam and the Yoni, there is absolutely nothing more superior form of worship in the world that paying homage to the Lingam and the Yoni. It is the most natural form of worship on the most basic level.

It is about procreation. It is about renewing the generations. It is how man evolved from a nomadic hunter gatherer into a settled agricultural creature. For an agricultural soceity, many hands are needed to work the field while the hunter gatherer needs to rid himself of any excess "baggage". The farmer needs many children and big family. The farm in turn would help maintain the family size. It is about fertility worship.

Even now, almost all of the world's population above the age of puberty is in one way or another attracted to sexuality. There should be absolutely no taboo in this. It is the most natural thing.

So all this plasma physics or quark physics kinda philosophies about HIndu practise will NOT help. For the man making vows to the Snake God to help him beget a male child, he is not making the vow to some philosophical manifestations of the statue but he is exactly making the vows to the statue of the snake. He may make a vow to gift a thousand boiled eggs every month if he gets a son or even to gift a gallon of milk. He is offering it to the snake. He is the majority and he needs to be helped. He does not need more mental confusion.

Avram
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Post by ramana »

Shiv, Every Indian state has a "Hindu Religious Endowments and Charities Act" (HR&C) Act which allows the govt to appoint officials to the temple governing bodies and to plan the expenditure. That is how the IAS babus are in charge of TTD etc. And Amma could misappropriate the TN temples. So you question maybe misplaced.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

Kakkaji wrote: Despite all these invectives, these people continue their good work in a quiet and sustained manner, and have accomplished a lot more in the field than what we have done through endless discussions on BRF.
That is no good.

No use saying someone is "quietly doing work" and then howling that Hinduism is dying out.

What work? Where? If YOU know it must be made public and not kept as a state secret.

How come Christian missionary work is never quiet, and generally well known while these Hindu missionaries are unknown. Isn't everyone on here guilty of giving far more publicity to Christian missionary work? And crediting it with great effectiveness in subversion? Or maybe I'm wrong - maybe the Christian missionaries are doing a lot more work in keeping with their higher profile and fame.

Tell me I am wrong.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

ramana wrote:Shiv, Every Indian state has a "Hindu Religious Endowments and Charities Act" (HR&C) Act which allows the govt to appoint officials to the temple governing bodies and to plan the expenditure. That is how the IAS babus are in charge of TTD etc. And Amma could misappropriate the TN temples. So you question maybe misplaced.
That is useful information.

That means someone can access the end-use of these funds using the Right to information act?

Does Tirupati have publicly audited figures?

What exactly is being done with funds collected from Hindu devotees?
Sai
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 59
Joined: 15 Mar 2001 12:31
Location: Chennai

Post by Sai »

shiv wrote:

If the target population themselves were not convinced of their unshakeable Hinduness, surely Hindus can have missionaries to work on these people just like anyone else.
I wonder why is that questions by Hindus about the state of Hinduism always have to be inward-looking. Introspection is good, no doubt, but that is not the only valid response. Why should Hindus or anybody else be mute spectators to exploitation of vulnerabilities of people by unscrupulous evangelists?
Is it possible that the holiest of holies from wealthy Indian temples are small men who will lose their purity if they go out and work with some sections of Indian society
It is myth first of all that the agenda for popular Hinduism today is set by "wealthy Indian temples". To give examples: In the northern part of the country, the most popular spiritual guru is Ramdev. He teaches his brand of spirituality to all: caste and creed no bar. He himself is from a so-called disadvantaged caste. Neither he nor the throngs that attend his sessions have shown any allergy to "impurities".

In Karnataka and to some extent in Tamilnadu, Hinduism is organized around a plethora of "mutts". Again, the gurus of these mutts are mostly from "backward" castes.

Late MN Srinivas prophesied that the baton of Hinduism will pass on to "middle" castes in the 20th and 21st centuries, and it is already happening. In this day and age, the wealthy upper-caste Hindu who doesn't mix with 'lower' castes for fear of losing purity is a media-manufactured stereotype. I'd seriously like to meet a couple of such guys in real life.

That apart, even the traditional upholders of faith, like the Kanchi Sankaracharya, are actively into losing 'purity'. He installed scheduled caste priests in temples. He united heads of various mutts on a single platform. Many people believe that mud was slung at him precisely because he was achieving results.
Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3866
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Post by Kakkaji »

Avram

Well said.

Hindu religion has always allowed the esoteric types of questioning that some on this thread have posted. Many BRF stalwarts would have made the Rishi grade in the age of the Vedas. Some would have made Maharishis. :)

But at the same time, rituals of worship as practised by the masses have also survived through the millenia. As long as they don't endanger anyone's life or limb, why should they be criticized?
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Post by SaiK »

armenon wrote:
SaiK wrote:
  • convert Christ to a Hindu.. give him temples.. along with Ganapathi and Shiva. (they want to convert people, we will convert their God! ). Perfect, God is in you, me, and him as well.
  • convert allah.. kinda done near sabarimala hills
  • ...mmm.. dangerous.. i don't want to say any further
:wink:
SaiK,

No need to convert anybody. According to Vedas Hinduism has got 33 crore Gods manifestations. We kinda put Christ and Allah in this group and there you go. :twisted:

Moreover the Holy Spirit Concept of Chrisitianity and concept of Allah in Islam is very very similar to the "Parabrahmam" concept in Hindutva.
wake up! read my previous post and reply.. its all about how to counter EJs. Christ statues would be soon unveiled at all temples.

lets call him "Kristayana"!

and.. don't forget to remove evils (all) while we evolve . stop thinking BC, think > 2007.
Last edited by SaiK on 15 Mar 2007 19:29, edited 2 times in total.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

Sai wrote: In this day and age, the wealthy upper-caste Hindu who doesn't mix with 'lower' castes for fear of losing purity is a media-manufactured stereotype. I'd seriously like to meet a couple of such guys in real life..
Mistake.

I am not referring to "upper caster" not mixing with lower caste. I am referring to the now ascendant middle castes whose behavior is increasingly mimicking the upper castes they have replaced.

While any domestic help is allowed into my kitchen, the "middle caste" domestic help who enters my kitchen says there are certain castes who will not be allowed to enter her kitchen at her home in her village.
Alok_N
BRFite
Posts: 608
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 19:32
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

Post by Alok_N »

asprinzl wrote:So all this plasma physics or quark physics kinda philosophies about HIndu practise will NOT help. For the man making vows to the Snake God to help him beget a male child, he is not making the vow to some philosophical manifestations of the statue but he is exactly making the vows to the statue of the snake. He may make a vow to gift a thousand boiled eggs every month if he gets a son or even to gift a gallon of milk. He is offering it to the snake. He is the majority and he needs to be helped. He does not need more mental confusion.
there is no need to assume that the average joe is incapable of understanding concepts ...

also, before you proclaim that physics kind of philosophies won't work, wouldn't it help to first try and understand it yourself?
Raju

Post by Raju »

Vulnerability need not just mean 'vulnerable sections' of a particular society. Entire societies can be deemed vulnerable. For instance evangelical/Islamist activism in a particular 'sub-section' might raise paranoia in the wider society due to deeper psychological undercurrents prevalent in society.

Once these feelings of paranoia build-up, a suitable political node can be employed to cash in on this by organising pogroms and creating social instability or the society can be made conducive to wars on third countries (in case of Islamism) to release the pent-up fear. Doing outrageous things like demolishing temples, abusing hindu customs and practices, throwing hindu idols and holy books into the gutter causes societal friction. And that is actually the intention imo.

Psychological Vulnerability Index of populations was mapped and found out through various benign sounding social studies sponsored through various benign fronts like western universities and Institutions etc.

This is part of the old plan to first divide the people using hatred and then to impose a new order on them. The older variation of this policy was divide and rule.
Last edited by Raju on 15 Mar 2007 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Post by SaiK »

ban & merge castes.. every one is equally created (hope no arguments here,i I know time is a big factor.. else we all 'd be dinosaurs). everyone will follow the best values obtained from all castes.

read "Vajra Soosika Upanishad".
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

If there is a threat from organized religion, there is no alternative to rolling up sleeves, biting the bullet and competing with the work being done on the ground by those missionaries.

Can someone catalog what work the missionaries do?

for example:
1) Fieldwork
2) Social service
3) collecting, writing, publishing and distributing propaganda material
4) Running a mission hospital

Missionaries have gone to the worst areas under the guise of non violent religion and have won converts there. That is what is being lamented on here. Surely there should be some move towards identifying areas that need attention and getting down there and competing on the ground with missionaries?

Saying that India is the land of Hindus and missionaries should stop will not work. It should have been done ages ago - but was never done. They are not spreading religion by magic. They are doing it by giving something that people want in exchange.

According to one forum member the missionaries base their work on research that tells them what people want and in what areas those people exist and they target them.

Where are those studies? What are the areas? And once again who are these vulnerable populations?
Sadler
BRFite
Posts: 256
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 10:26
Location: USA-ISRAEL

Post by Sadler »

asprinzl wrote:Folks, honestly the is NOTHING WRONG in idol worship. What is the yard stick with which to measure if Monotheism is good or bad compared to Polytheism? Its one claim over another.
Lets also not forget the fact that polytheists have historically been extremely tolerant of each other and other faiths. The streak of religious absolutism, and its attendant savagery, is a monotheistic one.
Sadler
BRFite
Posts: 256
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 10:26
Location: USA-ISRAEL

Post by Sadler »

Poverty = Vulnerability.

I dont think literacy has anything to with it. With bread in your stomach and a future for oneself and family, its a lot difficult for an EJ to push his "Son, how would you like to go to Heaven?" crap.
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Post by rsingh »

Admins....can we move this thread ....... next to nukkad thread.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

I see a curious suicidal dichotomy on here.

On the one hand people are quick to publicize and get angry at any criticism of the RSS but are very recessed and quiet when it comes to saying what good the RSS is doing.

Surely the bad name/bad press that the RSS has got needs to be countered by a documentation of their work by an independent non RSS group of people such as forum members?

How come, on average, people tend to associate RSS with "right wing extremism" while they never tend to associate the word "missionary" with anything like "extremism but with more positive things

There has to be a serious public relations bungle somewhere.
Sunoor Singh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 18
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 22:33
Location: Edge of a precipice

Post by Sunoor Singh »

Re: Reasons for conversion.
One affluent guy I know converted from an Indian religion to Christianity. The reason he gave was that he never got any answers from his elders when he had any difficult questions. People just told him to shut up.

Therefore, while poverty etc. are important, it is also very important to provide more information to children and let them ask hard questions. Instead of shying away from answers, be honest and tell them that you don't know or build a simplistic model appropriate for their age.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

rsingh wrote:Admins....can we move this thread ....... next to nukkad thread.
No.

The thread is here for a reason.

If Hinduism is under threat from other religions, discussing other religions alone in the absence of any talk of Hindus and Hinduism is pointless.
Raju

Post by Raju »

there was no demand for moving the thread..when the topic was Islamism or evanjehadism.
Alok_N
BRFite
Posts: 608
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 19:32
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

Post by Alok_N »

this thread has filled 7 pages in about 36 hours ... and there has been no outright flaming or abusive posts ... methinks its a keeper :)
negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Post by negi »

shiv wrote:When people refer to "vulnerable populations" in India, what makes them vulnerable?
The fact that they are Hindus.
......... why ?
1.Hinduism unlike its two counterparts is not limited to what a 'Book' says or preaches ;reasons

there was no other religion or ideology when hinduism originated and hence it never had to define or describe itself ,else why dont we find the definition of a Hindu in any of the Puranas,Vedas or Geeta
If the target population themselves were not convinced of their unshakeable Hinduness, surely Hindus can have missionaries to work on these people just like anyone else.
But Hindus haven't bothered with this have they?
They are watching and are now in a state of panic.
well while Islam and Christianity openly and actually preach the message of spreading the respective ideology,Hinduism has no mention of such a concept(for obvious reasons).
How many wealthy Indian temples train and send out missionaries to help "vulnerable sections" of Indian society.
Sigh.......... while this country has already tainetd anyone speaking of Hinduism as a Communal element,how practical in the present political scenario you feel this step would be ?
Last edited by negi on 15 Mar 2007 20:03, edited 1 time in total.
Raju

Post by Raju »

Sigh.......... while this country has already tainetd anyone speaking of Hinduism as a Communal element
this is not just an Indian phenomenon, in democracies all over the world speaking on behalf of the majority is considered communal/fascist/xenophobic. that is how media has manipulated public opinion.
armenon
BRFite
Posts: 384
Joined: 25 Jul 2006 09:14

Post by armenon »

Murugan wrote:
Hinduism has got 33 crore Gods
In Sanskrit it is Koti Devata= 33 types of Devatas. and not 33 crore (koti=type)

Vastu Devata
Sthan Devata
Gram Devata
...
...

In sanskrit sahasra = many (and not thousand only)
Thanks Murugan, I stand corrected. My mistake onlee. In my language Koti is Crore.
Alok_N
BRFite
Posts: 608
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 19:32
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

Post by Alok_N »

Kumar wrote:If we should follow the scientific method, then puting a heavy presumption that gods/goddeses are figments of our imagination, is not justifiable. Let scientific method sort that out, if science must be the arbiter.
you are a pro at distorting what someone else has posted, and then refuting it ... where did this "figment of our imagination" phrase come from except as a figment of your imagination? ... where is the presumption?

what was posted in black and white was that gods were symbols invented by the sages to translate concepts into more available forms ...

murugan posted a step by step history of this evolution ... why not attempt to refute that? ... if you can't, then what is the agenda?
Deities keep popping up in the fertile land of India. There is no guarantee that they would lose the habit. Especially since numerous hindu sages keep confirming their reality, and even ordinary people in their daily lives go through their personal confirmations.
I don't disagree with that ... in fact, I believe that the deity proliferation needs to be exploited ... what we need are more modern deities ...

sun worship could be in the form of solar power ... we definitely need a god of nuclear energy ... you get the idea :)
Alok_N
BRFite
Posts: 608
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 19:32
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

Post by Alok_N »

Here is Murugan's post again ...
Murugan wrote:To understand Hinduism and Vedic concept of god, IMO the following may help:

1) Vedic (rituals)
2) Upanishadic Age (philsophical, theological exercises to find out the ultimate truth)
3) Vedanta (upto here god = ultimate truth)
Shankaracharya offered a mix of Gyan, Karma and Bhakti
4) Vaishnavism (incarnation theory started and then multitude of gods)
(Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Vllabhacharya, Bhakti Marg, Idolworship)
5) Shaivism (rituals) (Mantra, Tantra, idol worhsip)
6) Tulsidas/Surdas - Bhaktakavis of Medieval age
6) Various other movement during and post Medieval age (cannot be identifed as one - All India movement)
7) Hinduism identified with Sects/Ritualistic relgion dividing hindus again as during post vedanta period
8 ) Revival of Vedanta (Swami Vivekananda)
9) Again sects/rituals and other nonsense
10) Post 1990 - revival of hinduism
I don't know enough to tell whether this is accurate or not ... but according to him, up to step 3 there was no god/goddess proliferation ...

in a related question, does anyone know what is the oldest statue of a god discovered by archaeologists? ... that might help date the question ...
Raju

Post by Raju »

Alok, from what I infer Gods are essentially those who helped man settle here on earth. In Hindu terms they are Varuna, Indra, Surya etc and in Christian terms they are known as Archangels/Watchers. So many of the Gods are not really abstract concepts. It is just that modern day rituals have failed to convey the real meaning of this due to various reasons or vested interest groups.

Deeper analysis of all this might be destabilising, so everyone just keeps up the pretense of status-quo.
Last edited by Raju on 15 Mar 2007 20:37, edited 1 time in total.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

negi wrote: 1.Hinduism unlike its two counterparts is not limited to what a 'Book' says or preaches ;reasons

there was no other religion or ideology when hinduism originated and hence it never had to define or describe itself ,else why dont we find the definition of a Hindu in any of the Puranas,Vedas or Geeta
..
well while Islam and Christianity openly and actually preach the message of spreading the respective ideology,Hinduism has no mention of such a concept(for obvious reasons).
This is exactly what I am getting at.

BECAUSE Hinduism is not bound by any single book, it is free to evolve and take on new avatars and roles. Hindus too can decide to actively and openly spread Hindu knowledge, folklore and philosophy. No book mandates it, but no book discourages it either.

tit for tat
negi wrote:
How many wealthy Indian temples train and send out missionaries to help "vulnerable sections" of Indian society.
Sigh.......... while this country has already tainetd anyone speaking of Hinduism as a Communal element,how practical in the present political scenario you feel this step would be ?
There is no other go. "Tainting" of Christian missionaries has not discouraged them. Done properly nobody will be able to say a word against it. Groups of RNRIs and some swamijis are doing it.
negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13112
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Post by negi »

"Sach hi to hai ki Kalyug mein Bhagwan ghat ghat se wilupt ho jayega" for now we are questioning his existence.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

Alok_N wrote: in a related question, does anyone know what is the oldest statue of a god discovered by archaeologists? ... that might help date the question ...
Iraq/Mesopotamia?

5000 years?
Alok_N
BRFite
Posts: 608
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 19:32
Location: Hidden Gauge Sector

Post by Alok_N »

I meant to ask about India ... but 5K years is impressive ...

as I recall Mohan-Jodaro had a small statue that is in the Delhi Museum ... it was of a face with a beard or something ... I don't recall what else was found there ...

my point was that if there was god proliferation at that point, we should have found loads of statues ...
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Post by geeth »

>>>BECAUSE Hinduism is not bound by any single book, it is free to evolve and take on new avatars and roles. Hindus too can decide to actively and openly spread Hindu knowledge, folklore and philosophy. No book mandates it, but no book discourages it either.

Also, it never says 'my God is better than yours", unlike some of the religions. I personally feel that the whole problem of religious friction begins when someone says 'my/our religion or God is better than yours'.

IMO, Hindus, if they take this route would be equally hated like many others.
Jaylal
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 19
Joined: 28 May 2005 00:11

Post by Jaylal »

If I may, I have an interesting point to add...

Could it be that there is a false perception that Christian Missionaries are more active in doing work for underprivledge peoples in India because of an inherent tendency for the actions of Hindus to be percieved as actions of a Indian or just a good person, rather than carrying any religious identity?

One example is my uncle, who despite being an immensely spiritual person, has single-handedly uplifted entire villages and built dozens of schools. His entire life's wealth and all of his retirement has been spent in public service. We are talking about 10's of Crores of Rupees, and in the West, there would be articles written about him, praising his strong faith and his dedication. But you can see that my uncle, who is a disciple of Swami Dayananda, is not interested in such things and only wishes to do his duty as a human being. He never parades around his work with a Saffron cloak, while missionaries may do good work but may ask for much recognition in return. I personally think that it makes you an exceptional person to be able to do things for others with no expectations in return. And it is the idea of Duty that makes the social work provided by Hinduism in India exceptional. That is something that people need to be more aware of... they need to be educated, as simple as it sounds, in the fact that there is a difference between self-less work and selfish work. Then, even a poor illiterate Fisherman in Kerela would think to question the motives behind Missionaries that insist upon proclamations of faith.

And that is also why I believe that education is the great equalizer. If Hindus could be intellectually uplifted, they will see a spade for a spade... though I fear at the rate that things are going, everyone will become Atheists in no time. :) At least they'll be Vedic Atheists, Hindu Atheists? Hah.
Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 419
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Post by Adrija »

A statue of Pasupatinath is amongst the harappa finds
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Post by shiv »

geeth wrote: Also, it never says 'my God is better than yours", unlike some of the religions. I personally feel that the whole problem of religious friction begins when someone says 'my/our religion is better than yours'.

IMO, Hindus, if they take this route would be equally hated like many others.
Geeth, Hinduism cannot say that, Hindus can certainly claim that the Hindu concept of God everywhere and in everything is all inclusive, non aggressive and superior to any other concept.

There is nothing in Hinduism to prevent people from doing that. There is nothing in Hinduism to prevent anything.

It's up to concerned people to do what is right for the time
geeth
BRFite
Posts: 1196
Joined: 22 Aug 1999 11:31
Location: India

Post by geeth »

>>>There is nothing in Hinduism to prevent people from doing that. There is nothing in Hinduism to prevent anything.

True. At the same tiime, Hinduism doesn't tell you to be an Evangelist and harvest the souls of Pagans to attain salvation. You are free to think and do whatever you think. Therein lies the strength.
Locked