Religion Thread - 6

Alok_N
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Postby Alok_N » 01 Apr 2007 12:38

Calvin wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


well, clearly that is an unimplementable joke ... why fret over it?

as I said, it is easy to rip apart the constitution ...

the reality on the ground is that 535 dudes, 100 bigger dudes, one prez plus 9 jokers decide what is law ...

I will be happy to find 9 folks who will listen to your appeal that not being allowed to slaughter cows is preventing folks from being true christians ...

decision of those 9 folks will be final ...

Shankk
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Postby Shankk » 01 Apr 2007 12:41

Calvin wrote:How is this not majoritarian tyranny?


Why do you call it tyranny? Does it sound nice to call evanjihadis a zombie machine? The moment they convert, immediately they want to convert as many others as they can just like zombies do.

Alok_N
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Postby Alok_N » 01 Apr 2007 12:43

Calvin wrote:The evangelists probably have a hundred verses that insist that evangelization is a quintessence of their religion.


so, if 10,000 is indeed the correct normalization, their needs would be 99% met without the need to evanjelize ...

sorry calvin, I don't believe that "individual rights" is a concept that can ever be enforced in absolute terms ...

as you mentioned, 68% decide that they have the power to tax 32% and it passes into law ...

shiv
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Postby shiv » 01 Apr 2007 12:48

How does one learn lessons?

If I (out of plain naive goodwill) keep cleaning up leaves and dirt from my neighbor's yard, I can hope to expect some similar sentiment or act of goodwill from my neighbor.

But if, after months, years, (or even centuries?) of this, the neighbor fails to give anything up, then it means I would be stupid to expect any goodwill from him.

Let me apply this allegory to faith.

The Hindu thinks he is being tolerant by allowing the Christian to practice his faith, and expect a toleration of his own beliefs in return.

If that toleration does not show up, we have a situation of "Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me"

Since Hindu knowledge has no bar on adding new chapters, a chapter that needs to be added is that the Christian faith and Islam do not tolerate the Hindu dharma, or faith or religion no matter how far you may be willing to go to accommodate their viewpoint.

Christianity and Islam offer a choice to Hindus that Hindu thinkers of yore have never had to address. I suspect Sikhism arose as a consequence of the intolerance of Islam.

I see the inevitable rise of a body of thought among Hindus that will oppose Christianity and Islam tooth an nail using violence if need be. All the ingredients are there, but the constant "cooling down" factor that operates among Hindus is that "We have tolerated", "We must tolerate", "We are tolerant" "We must accept the other faith" etc.

That obviously does not work. Decency and asking for give and take have no role whatsoever.

The rules are there for everyone to see. Now someone please ask me why Hindus might resort to violence? Tolerance of alien faiths does not work does it?

It is wrong for Hindus to call for, preach or request tolerance from anyone. The attitude of non toleration is perfectly familiar territory to the non Hindu. It is the Hindus who need to learn. Tolerance is for the person whose thoughts can rise above a particular baseline. That baseline is deliberately not breached by either Christianity or Islam.

Why blame evanjihadis or islamists. They always knew where they were going. Tolerance is wrong. Intolerance and a willingness to kick ass when you have the power to do that is the way to "rights".

Hindus are fed with too many stories that urge them to be nice to strangers, the weak, the disabled, the lost, the hungry. the visitor. The stories typically end with rewards to the person who is nice and no reward or even punishment for the person who is not nice to every joker who appears on the scene. That defines Hindu behavior.

The thing to do is to specifically teach children that being tolerant may be good, and there may be tolerant people, but do not expect tolerance of your way of life from the Christian church or from Islam. You may have to fight for your faith because you will have to take flak for being what you are.


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