Religion Thread - 9

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shyam
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Post by shyam »

Sajan wrote:Well, the point is, minorities don't consider communists as "untouchable" anymore unlike what Calvin said.
Why would minorities consider communists untouchable if communists can deliver them what they need on a platter?
SRoy
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Post by SRoy »

Sajan wrote:I give two hoots about the technicalities of caste system. What matters to me is how it impacted real people and what they are doing/tried to do to throw that yoke away and how that is one of the main reasons for religious conversions in India.
Who are "they" in your post?
Sajan wrote: BTW, what is the % of brahmins (nambudiris) in kerala ? It will be much smaller compared to other states like Maharashtra and taht was my point.

But I don't have any qualms about admitting the fact that some brahmins played a role in fighting the ills of their society (people like VT Bhattathirippad or EMS in kerala), but that doesn't absolve centuries of oppression.
So do you have data on state wise distribution of Brahmins? Your post implicitly says that states with high percentage of Brahmins would correspond to bad situation for lower castes. Please get the numbers and lets analyze.
Sajan wrote:
For example, in my home state Bengal caste system has no real strength
I don't disagree with that. However situation in each state is vastly different.
And why is that?
Isn't your problem is with particular states? Why should people hailing from states with weak caste system, believe your words and why should they not petition the Admins to ban you for presenting social ills of one or more states as blots on Hinduism?
Sajan
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Post by Sajan »

In Kerala, a famous legend is
Important part here is "LEGEND", not proven
How is this possible if Kerala had serious caste discrimination for centuries?
You just read kerala history, at least from the time of Marthanda Varma. That should provide you with 2 centuries of history at least, and then say that there was no caste discrimination and caste was NOT based on birth.
Sajan
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Post by Sajan »

Your post implicitly says that states with high percentage of Brahmins would correspond to bad situation for lower castes.
If you read the prior posts, I am talking about why Sri Narayana Guru didn't have to come out against brahmins in kerala as Mahatma Phule did in Maharashtra or EVR did in TN.
shyam
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Post by shyam »

Sajan wrote:
Nambudiris had tremendous power in Kerala till land reforms happened
If that is the case, are you admitting that communists played as big a role as sri narayana guru in breaking the caste system and brhamin hegemony(through land reforms, incidently carried out by a kerala nambudiri, EMS).
Efforts to eliminate caste hegemony started even before communists got power, and that is what Sri Narayana Guru, Kumaranashan, and even temple admission demonstrate.

Main achievement of communists is to move Kerala's economic power center from Hindus to Christians and Muslims. It is EMS who created the district of Malappuram which is now exclusive power center for IUML.
Instead you will get a lot of stuff that takes you nowhere if not you don't get confused.
Aha!! So you are upset because you didn't get an "amar chithra katha" vesion of history :D Something really simplified.
It is not amar chithra katha. How do you describe history without telling the facts? Getting trained in that history will only help you blabber more.
shiv
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Post by shiv »

Why worry?

There is no more caste. It has been removed. The caste system is history and all injustices of the past have been remedied.

Now on to removing proselytization.
Last edited by shiv on 06 Apr 2007 14:20, edited 2 times in total.
shyam
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Post by shyam »

Sajan wrote:You just read kerala history, at least from the time of Marthanda Varma. That should provide you with 2 centuries of history at least, and then say that there was no caste discrimination and caste was NOT based on birth.
That is the point many posters here are making. That was the time India started having western contacts!!! This caste discrimination accelerated when British got power.

It may be worth reading this
Indian Caste System and British
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