Religion Thread - 9

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Rakesh
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Religion Thread - 9

Post by Rakesh »

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Post by Alok_N »

that thread closed early ... just when religion was intent on presenting yet newer facets ... a bitt too spicy for some tastes, perhaps?

carrying on ...
Karan wrote: Here is my experience with Hanuman Bhakti. When I am inside the gym and working out, I feel in tune with the universe. I am calm. Most of my spiritual breakthroughs have occurred at the gym.
is that any different from coitus? ... unless you are doing it wrong, there is a great deal of "tuning with the universe" in the sexual act as well ... :)
This Bhakti session lasts for hours.
ahem ... can't quite compete with "hours" with my snake-oil ...

on a 10-minute time-scale, I believe, mine is better than yours ...

only the most advanced reached the "hours" scale ...

there has been a lot of talk of Vighraha ... you are making me think **** ... :)
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Post by SRoy »

Reposting from the archived thread....
Abhibhushan wrote:
SRoy wrote: So it can challenged in courts? Any constitutional experts....???
Education is a state subject and the state can take control of schools. The constitution gives a little freeway to 'Minority Institutions' in this matter.

Some years ago, the Ramakrishna Mission took advantage of this by proclaiming to be non-Hindu and a religious minority!

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1 ... 7-02.shtml
Thanks sir, I'm aware of the work around by Ramakrishna Mission and I was expecting that someone or other will dig it out and post it. I believe the said workaround is a bad example.

My query still stands.

Does the constitution "explicitly" prohibits Hindus from setting up a religious educational institution? Or are they being constrained due to the fact that monetary control is in government hands?

The thrust is simple, if the basic structure of the constitution is against the well being of SD and provides instruments to actively suppress the faith then average Hindus are right in being supporting Bajrang Dal types.

But if the constitutional spirit guarantees the fundamental rights of the majority faith then its time to file a PIL.
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Post by Alok_N »

while we are (oh ok, only I am) in this business of exploring the wide reaches of belief and its expression, here is something from another one of my main men who said it like noone else ...
Maggie comes fleet foot
Face full of black soot
Talkin' that the heat put
Plants in the bed but
The phone's tapped anyway
Maggie says that many say
They must bust in early May
Orders from the D. A.
Look out kid
Don't matter what you did
Walk on your tip toes
Don't try "No Doz"
Better stay away from those
That carry around a fire hose
Keep a clean nose
Watch the plain clothes
You don't need a weather man
To know which way the wind blows
these last couple of lines are the best indictment of religions that require that there be spiritual middle-men ...

"prophets" come in many shapes and form ... ol' bob was a "Jnana Yogi" attempting to raise the consciousness of folks ...
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Post by shyam »

The beef eating thingy is more than individual right and has its own agenda. I read that in Europe, when jews or muslims were converted to christianity, their change of faith were tested by observing their willingness to eat pork. In India when hindus were converted to islam, their commitments to new religion were tested by making them eat beef.
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Post by abhischekcc »

Man, this thread moves faster than the nuclear thread. Notyhing like religion to get the juices of Indians flowing, eh?

-------------------

On a serious note. Most of my spiritual insights have occured on the thunder box. Does that make me an apostate, according to some scriptures/theories? :lol: I think I am a natural Aghori.

--------------------
Does the constitution "explicitly" prohibits Hindus from setting up a religious educational institution? Or are they being constrained due to the fact that monetary control is in government hands?
I exchanged a few mails with NS Rajaram a few years back. He had given me a list of laws and by-laws which are "interpreted" in such a way as to make life difficult for Hindus and/or favour minorities in the name of fairness. I'll see if I can dig up that mail. But don't hold your breath.

Point is, no law "explicitly" discriminates against Hindus, but they only discriminate in favour of minorities (religiouis as well as ethnic). For ex. why is there still a need for an inner line (?) passport in some NE states for Indians, but not for white christian missionaries?
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Post by abhischekcc »

yes, there are places in old Delhi where you can still get a snake-bite for about Rs 10 ... there is a snake in a bottle with a cork on it ... you pay the money, the cork is removed. and you stick your big toe in there ... the snake in there (usually a tiny viper species) takes a bite and you move on ...
You were in kindergarten. There are sects which use intercourse to "open up the mind". Its no laughing matter. If they get hold of a girl who is not from the sect.... Let's just say she does live beyond 48 hours.

And then there are still human sacrifice cults.

There are practices which are plain downright evil. One does not need to have a religious mind to see that. Let's not confuse the extreme edges of Hinduism with the rights/needs of the majority.
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Post by Alok_N »

one of these days you'll get serious ... patience is a virtue ... :)
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Post by shiv »

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanheral ... 200743.asp

THE INQUIRER

‘RSS view of Hindu rashtra an anachronism’

Jyotirmaya Sharma, author of `Terrifying Vision', a book about MS Golwalkar of the RSS, in an interview with Deepak K Upreti of the Deccan Herald comments on the controversial legacy of the leader.


The book Terrifying Vision by Jyotirmaya Sharma is about MS Golwalkar who succeeded the founder of the RSS, KB Hedgewar, and led the Sangh for 33 years until his death. Sharma taught in the UK and worked as a journalist in India. Jyotirmaya Sharma, in an interview with Deepak K Upreti of the Deccan Herald, comments on the controversial legacy of the RSS chief. Excerpts:


‘Terrifying Vision’ refers to Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar’s spiritual stay with Swami Akhandananda, founder of the Ramakrishna Ashram in Sargachhi, Bengal, and a direct discipline of Ramakrishna Parmahansa. You also mention Swami Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Tilak and Madan Mohan Malviya contributing to the maturing of Golwarkar’s vision of a Hindu Rashtra. How does the inheritor of such liberal influences churn out a ‘terrifying vision’ of a Hindu rashtra?

I don’t think these influences can be categorised as liberal or radical in a simplistic way. To understand my argument about influences, one will have to go back to my Hindutva volume. I’ve included Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo as extremely influential figures in contributing to what we see as Hindutva. Neither was their vision of the nation liberal or inclusive in any sense of the term. Golwalkar is the inheritor of this very narrow and dangerous vision.


You have quoted Golwalkar as saying that the Hindu way of life and thought were present in this land before Christianity and Islam. “Hindustan for Hindus,â€
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Post by abhischekcc »

So, the christian/liberal game is on. Even Swami Viveananda and Sri Aurobindo are reactionaries now :eek:

Anybody who says that Hindus have the right to exist, is a reactionary according to the vision of this man.

I don't have words to express my pique, but I wish this man was standing in front of me now.

--------------

It is precisely people like this who have ensured that the Hindus do not listen to words of compromise anymore. No amount of compromise is enough for them.

No wonder these hacks don't understand why even politicos dont support secularism anymore. I think the kindest thing we can do to him is to let him live in his own little dream world.
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Post by abhischekcc »

What I would really love to know is what actually goes on in the deep dark place between the ears of Shri Maharaj Jyotirmaya BE-Sharma?

It would be an interesting psychological analysis to know whether libertarianism is really another form of OEdipus Complex. :)
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Post by Vishy_mulay »

http://www.sciy.org/blog/_archives/2006 ... 45031.html


[quote]
I first should like to apologize for any and all remarks which may be categorized as a hurling of “personal invectiveâ€
Last edited by Vishy_mulay on 04 Apr 2007 18:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SaiK »

OK.. lets turn our attention towards "soma" as the elixir of the aged sages. Now what plant that would it be, that when mixed and prepared to have given those properties? I am thinking something like marijuana or poppies. Vedic rituals were performed while burning fire with ghee and soma offerings to Indra et al devas (deus) or the m-theorized Godzels. Soon, the cultivation of such exotic plant was difficult in south of India, hence such practices were stopped, and now its only a mantra-elixir with milk etc. If mesapotomia and its regions were the origins of such plant, need to know if iranians or iraqies have them still left over in some mountain sides. it could be hashish as well.

no wonder its called "medical marijuana", and has not got any significant physical side effects if taken on controlled basis. i guess, even FDA approves it.
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Post by HariC »

shyam wrote:The beef eating thingy is more than individual right and has its own agenda. I read that in Europe, when jews or muslims were converted to christianity, their change of faith were tested by observing their willingness to eat pork. In India when hindus were converted to islam, their commitments to new religion were tested by making them eat beef.
Apparently the idiots didnt know that nonveg Hindus will eat anything that come their way :D :D
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Post by SaiK »

its colon at the end problem!
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Post by shiv »

Hold on one sec folks. Before we get drunk on soma..

One of the early complaints was that the Hindu dharma is under threat.

Ok fine. I accept that its under threat - but just look at Hindus. What a confused bunch.

We all know that

Islam = peace
Christianity = love

But I find Hindus haggling over whether to

a) call their way of life a religion or not
b) Whether to call it "hinduism" at all
c) There is a tendency to call Hinduism Sanatan Dharma and on here we find utter laziness in the manner in which people shorten that to "SD" as though the entire world will understand.

It is no use if some high faluitin "all realised and done with" Hindus understand. Morons on the ground have to have understand as well.

Folks. You have a window to the world here. Do not fritter it away.

Someone please post good reasons why Hinduism should not be called Hinduism. The reasons had better be really good, and let me state why.

You see - the complaint is that "Hinduism" and "Hindus" are under threat. It has been made abundantly clear that the source of the threat is evanjihadism and Islamism.

At a time when people should be spending some effort in shoring up the sullied image of Hinduism I am finding what seems to me a totally absurd turning away from reality and deciding to call Hinduism "sanatana Dharma" and trying to explain that. That's like if shiv is criticized he turns around and says "Hey actually I am Pramod and I'm a great guy" See what I mean?

Hinduism being criticized? We say "Hey it's SD and were great". That is totally absurd!!!

That is NOT going to help

The name sanatana dharma is not well known. Even that not so well known name is idiotically shortened to "SD". If Hinduism has to be defended using the name sanatana dharma which is idiotically shortened to "SD", every goddam Hindu and every goddam non Hindu has to first say "Wha????" and then figure out that SD is Hinduism and then learn about it. Naaaah. Sounds like a hopelessly complicated plot to me.

In the time that Hindus waste in this unnecessary pursuit people who are working against Hindus will say "We know bugger all about this Santana Drummer stuff - but Hindoooos are as bad as ever"

By all means bring about a change in nomenclature. But let it take time. In the meantime stick with Hinduism. Why start fighting a brand name 2000 years late?

Until then it makes tactical sense to be very clear that we are talking about what everyone in the world knows 'Hinduism"

Let me come back to my earlier premise:

Islam = peace
Christianity = love

Hinduism = :?:

A "learning experience" for me on these threads has been the sad realization that the people who howled loudest that Hinduism is under threat are unable to come up with a simple saleable catch phrase.

Oh yes - I am sure Yindooo brains will rationalize and tell me that is not possible.

But then you can't sell it boss.

I can think of a catch phrase - many if you like

Hinduism = liberation
Hinduism = freedom
Hinduism = bliss (don't like this one myself)

But we have such clever clog convoluted thinkers that we ourselves can't pin down Hinduism and describe it in a few lines. We can't even agree on a name.

Then we moan that it is under threat. What's so surprising about that???????????
Last edited by shiv on 04 Apr 2007 19:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by S.Valkan »

Rakesh wrote:First we need to make beef illegal, then we discuss communal harmony. Taking a choice of food away from a person, that can be legally purchased, just because society deems otherwise is lunacy.
The operating clause is "legally purchased".

It is obviously illegal to slaughter cows in some states of India, just as it is illegal to slaughter cats and dogs in the US.

When the collective wills the opposite, and enacts laws, no individual can claim a right to his/her own choice of food.
Above religion - including mine - is the laws of the country. That is sacroscant.
Excellent point.

Wonder why this simple fact is not understood by one and all.
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Post by Rony »

shiv wrote: Hinduism = freedom
I will go with this.
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Post by vina »

S.Valkan wrote:
Above religion - including mine - is the laws of the country. That is sacroscant.
Excellent point.

Wonder why this simple fact is not understood by one and all.
Gosh after beating about the bush for 8 threads and more to come , is this all it is coming down to ?

Maybe it is not understood by one and all for a simple reason ? And that is, religion (laws/practices) are "divine" / have divine sanction , while national laws are "man made" (to quote the Al Keedas") and because of the reverence of GOD over MAN , "god made" is superior to "man made" (phoren vs desi maal extended worldwide?)

This dispute will always be there in secular societies with constitutions , unless you accept that "god laws" are not superior and in fact inferior to "man laws" .

An elegant "solution" exists however to break this disconnect and that is Saudi Arabia.. They don't have a constitution, because they maintain that they already have one and it is called the Holy Koran. .. Now I am sure an overwhelming majority of reasonable people will agree that this particular "solution"/ "cure" is far worse than the disease itself!! ..

Like I said earlier.. all this spirituality, dharma and other mumbo jumbo .. no one gives a rat's musharraf about.. BRF should not have a religion thread period.. There is no use for it and will degenerate into a slanging match.

Get the focus back and focus on the power/ effects of religion and start a thread on that.
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Post by Anand K »

Would defining/quantifying Hinduism restrict it? Or should it be something structural like Scientology or Ingsoc (of Orwell's 1984) or even the pre-BCE Buddhism where an inner circle knew the "truth" while the lay swallowed dumbed down "Dummies" edition? One good thing about Hinduism is the absence of a framework which sorta restricts it. Say, would something like Bhakti-Marg develop if someone locked the book and threw away the key? And even if the faith called for locking the book till a council decides to revise it gingerly how would the faith have served the true purpose of Faith? Look what happened at the Buddhist Councils (Asoka had to explicitly carve a warning to the non-conformists in stone) or the Ecumenical councils of Early Xianity.

Though I am not a fan of the "asampradayas" myself, I believe it offers a kind of impetus for the progress of faith in dire times. If it weren't for things like Bhakti (that were quite unconventional in their times), Hinduism prolly would have gone the way of the Egyptian religion. I know some folk that argue for a united, consolidated faith to meet the Semitic or Nastik juggernaut (Carl had made this point once... vis-a-vis how Arab monotheism and even Iranian Zoroasterianism collapsed in the face of Islam)..... but somehow I feel there should be ample scope for debate and a "hundred schools of thought".

Just a rant..... :)
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Post by S.Valkan »

shiv wrote:Let me come back to my earlier premise:

Islam = peace
Christianity = love

Hinduism = :?:
Why is it that you have "sankocha" ( by the way, it IS a Sanskrit word used in other languages and not merely Kannada, and roughly translates in English to 'hesitation' ) is stating that Hinduism can't be pinned down with ONE catchphrase ?

At the highest level, Hinduism = "Liberation from Ignorance".

But then you are saddled with the task of explaining what "Ignorance" is.
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Post by Greg »

@Shiv
Islam = peace
Christianity = love

Hinduism = :?:

Hinduism = Harmony with the Universe

(doesnt have to be just one word) :)

Hinduism = Freedom is also good but it will be quicky portrayed as "devil worshipping allowed in Hinduism". A marketing problem might ensue.

____________________
@ general audience

I have been going through the archives of this thread and noted the discussion on Advaita, which I suppose is an offshoot of Hinduism. I have a question in that regard. The "immanent" concept of God in advaita is very interesting - its somewhat reminescent of what many atheists refer to as an "Einsteinien sense of God". But it wasnt clear to me how this philosophy accomodates the hope of "divine intervention" at a daily level that most Hindus appear to subscribe too. Does Advaita actually diverge toward an explicit rejection of divine intervention? IOW, whatever the ultimate nature of God according to Advaita, does he/she/it actually listen to worshippers prayers and bring about change in the Universe in accord with the prayers? [/quote]
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Post by ramana »

What I know about TTD trust of Tirupati is the following. The AP govt appoints the Chairman of the Board of Trustees who is usually a over the hill politician who could do harm if left without portfolio. The trustees are also appointed by the Govt. The TTD is run by the Executive Officer who is again appointed by the AP Govt and is usually a senior IAS officer in the Andhra cadre. C. Anna Rao the first EO was not IAS but still in AP govt service.

The breakdown of pilgrims to Tirupati/Tirumala as of mid 2006 was - 45% from TN which is the closest distance wise, 25 % from Karnataka, 15% from Andhra Pradesh and rest from all over India. In last two decades a new phenomenon of entire villages and small town communities from North India make the pilgrimage together. Talking to them they said their belief in Lord Balaji was strong and also the Kashmir terrorism is a damper to visit northern holy sites. So the pilgrim composition is all India based and not just Telugu speaking pilgrims.

So as you can see the AP govt provides the admin even though the pilgroms come from all over and spends teh monies colled in AP usually.

Some EOs are far sighted and one thing in the last two decades is the building of Kalyana Mandaps in small towns and big villages in AP to facilitate avoid the long journey to Tirupati and reduce the stress on the infrastructure.

I dont know what prevents the TTD, which is the richest temple in India, from spending money to maintain other antiquity temples in other parts of India? The AP govt treats it is its own resource as development activity in and arounf Tirupati is funded from temple funds. SV Uty is funded by the Temple and some grants from the AP Govt Education Ministry.

I dont know the situation in TN or Kerala.
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Post by HariC »

S.Valkan wrote:[
Above religion - including mine - is the laws of the country. That is sacroscant.
Excellent point.

Wonder why this simple fact is not understood by one and all.
agreed

But right now its not the law, so people are free to debate about it.. :)
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Post by S.Valkan »

vina wrote: This dispute will always be there in secular societies with constitutions , unless you accept that "god laws" are not superior and in fact inferior to "man laws".
This is not the issue.

The issue raised was that some believers complain about certain laws of the land EVEN when those are not in opposition to their self-proclaimed "superior" laws.
Like I said earlier.. all this spirituality, dharma and other mumbo jumbo .. no one gives a rat's musharraf about.. BRF should not have a religion thread period.. There is no use for it and will degenerate into a slanging match.
I disagree.

There is a great deal of use for it.

It empowers people with the correct understanding of their own religion, and of others.

Would you face an evanjihadi armed with a shield, sword and body armour, or just plain buck naked ?
Get the focus back and focus on the power/ effects of religion and start a thread on that.
Religion is a broad category.

The focus shifts to where the forumites want to focus.

What prevents you from focussing on the power/effects of religion in this "religion" thread itself ?
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Post by putnanja »

Greg wrote: I have been going through the archives of this thread and noted the discussion on Advaita, which I suppose is an offshoot of Hinduism.
Advaita is part of hinduism, not an off shoot. Between 7th and 14th century, there arose three main philosophers, Shankaracharya, Ramanujacharya and Madhvacharya which led to three schools of thought in hinduism. Shankaracharya propounded the "Advaita" philosophy, Ramanujacharya "Vishishtadvaita" and Madhvacharya "Dvaita" philosophy.

Look up on the web for these philosophies as they are quite profound and might derail the thread :) Wikipedia has this for advaita.
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Post by Alok_N »

Shiv,

depends on whether the word you are looking for represents a characteristic or an act ... love and peace are catch all (is it love in itself or in the act of providing love?) ... I would agree with Valkan and say, pick one:

Hinduism = sublime

or

Hinduism = liberation


the former characterises it while the latter defines its desired action ...

on the lighter side, these are good also:

Hinduism = we are like that onlee

Hinduism = why worry, have curry

Hinduism = you want fries with that?

8)
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Post by Anand K »

The ministry which runs Hindu religious places (i.e the ones not under a trust or a private group or the armed forces) is called "Endowments Ministry" in all states.... except Kerala where it is called "Devaswom" ('Abode of the Gods') AFAIK. The ministers are always Hindus (even if his party believes in Prophet Marx or Periyar) and AFAIK all board members are Hindus too. Some ministries (INC/BJP type which have no caste/regional baggage usually appoint practicing Hindu Babus or mid-rung Netas in the Endowments/Devaswom board. Now this ministry falls under the State List and the expenditure/earnings are all SUPPOSED to be under the discretion of the state. The situation's like this; there are like half a dozen "earners" among the thousands of temples and the excess money is spread out to the temples in need (cross-subsidies in essence). IIRC the revenue from this ministry is NOT surrendered to the state govt. The Boards are independent and elected bodies (depends on the political equations too) and they can have total control if they wish...... Now this is of course different when a cadre party like CPM or DMK is in power.... in that case the board member are beholden to the appartchiks. In Malluland we used to have avowed Atheists running the Devaswom Board when the Commies came to power. OTOH during the last INC Govt, the dude who headed the Devaswom treated it as his own fiefdom and went to war with the party!

One funda is that temple revenues are NOT for aiding any *religion* at state expense, but to aid the devotees who wish to worship there or to do repairs etc. This is the same yardstick used (or so they tell) when they subsidize Hajj expenses for the impoverished Muslim Barber who HAS to go to Mecca as per his book. But then, what about the penniless Hindu sweeper who wishes to die in Varanasi or Rameswaram...... or say, a Hindu who wishes to get his ashes submerged in the Sindhu or spread over Mt Kailas? :)

More later.
Last edited by Anand K on 04 Apr 2007 20:52, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Raju »

ramana, take an example of Sikh Gurudwaras. Currently there are Ramgarhia Gurudwara, Jat Sikh Gurudwara, Tharkan Gurudwara, Dalit Sikh Gurudwara, Nirankari Gurudwara, Udasis/misc Gurudwara.

And ofcourse there is no control by Govt over Sikh religious institutions. It is self managed.

Sandeep, isn't this true ?
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Post by putnanja »

Anand K wrote:One funda is that temple revenues are NOT for aiding any *religion* at state expense, but to aid the devotees who wish to worship there or to do repairs etc.
In Karnataka, some of the revenue from the temples were in fact distributed to churches and mosques. This led to lot of protests, and finally when the current JD(S)/BJP combine came to power, they made it strict that the funds would be used only for hindu temples. Basically revenue from rich temples are now used to maintain other smaller temples, and paying some honarium to poor priests etc.
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Post by Rahul Mehta »

RaviBg wrote:
Anand K wrote:One funda is that temple revenues are NOT for aiding any *religion* at state expense, but to aid the devotees who wish to worship there or to do repairs etc.
In Karnataka, some of the revenue from the temples were in fact distributed to churches and mosques. This led to lot of protests, and finally when the current JD(S)/BJP combine came to power, they made it strict that the funds would be used only for hindu temples. Basically revenue from rich temples are now used to maintain other smaller temples, and paying some honarium to poor priests etc.
GoI should "confiscate" 10 % revenues collected by temples. mosques and churches as service tax and charge 35% tax in their incomes. In addition, there should be 1% tax in the mkt value of lands they own. As Military, police, courts, prison etc which feed from taxes are importanter than temples, mosques and churches.

Rest 65% should be left to temples' owners. They should be free to do whatever they like from it.
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Post by SBajwa »

by Raju

ramana, take an example of Sikh Gurudwaras. Currently there are Ramgarhia Gurudwara, Jat Sikh Gurudwara, Tharkan Gurudwara, Dalit Sikh Gurudwara, Nirankari Gurudwara, Udasis/misc Gurudwara.

And ofcourse there is no control by Govt over Sikh religious institutions. It is self managed.

Sandeep, isn't this true ?
There are gurudwaras where management may rename it as "Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Gurdwara" but I have never seen a gurdwara named Jat Sikh or Tarkhan Gurdwara.

What happens is that since all Sikh Gurudwaras are suppose to be democratically elected by majority if majority of people are Jatts then management goes into Jatt hands and so forth.

Shiromani Gurudwara Prabhandak Committee manages Historical Gurdwaras in Himachal, Haryana and Punjab. (it is majority Jutt)

Delhi Sikh Gurudwara Committe manages Historical Gurudwaras in Delhi (It is mostly non-jutt).

Gurudwaras are named like "Darbar Sahib","Singh Sabha", "Sector 22 Gurdwara","Majnu ka Teela Gurudwara","Baba Atal Gurudwara", etc. but never "Bhapa Gurdwara" or "Tarkhan Gurudwara" or "Jutt Gurudwara" (It is a blasphemy as well as Sikhi is concerned).

In countries (usa, uk and canada), Sikh population creates a non-profit organization naming it as "Tri state sikh cultural society" and saves enough money to buy land and create Gurudwara. Gurudwaras are normally named "Gurdwara sahib" i.e. "Guru ka Dwar" i.e. "Door of the Guru".

Guru Dwara means "Guru ke Dwar" or "Door of my teacher's house"

There is no such thing as "Jat Door of my teacher's house"


Gurudwa elections here in usa or in uk and canada often are violent due to huge amount of money these Gurudwaras get., majority of Sikhs donate to the gurudwaras (Tax free donation just like Americans donate to Churches), a professional earning tons of money a year and to be taxed will rather donate to his Gurudwara then giving it to the US government, to reduce taxable income.

SGPC just released it budget for 2007/2008 and it is 330 Crores.
DSGMC probably has around 100 Crores.

Sandeep
Last edited by SBajwa on 04 Apr 2007 21:13, edited 4 times in total.
Manny
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Post by Manny »

Greg wrote:@Shiv
Islam = peace
Christianity = love

Hinduism = :?:

Hinduism = Harmony with the Universe

(doesnt have to be just one word) :)

Hinduism = Freedom is also good but it will be quicky portrayed as "devil worshipping allowed in Hinduism". A marketing problem might ensue.

____________________
@ general audience

I have been going through the archives of this thread and noted the discussion on Advaita, which I suppose is an offshoot of Hinduism. I have a question in that regard. The "immanent" concept of God in advaita is very interesting - its somewhat reminescent of what many atheists refer to as an "Einsteinien sense of God". But it wasnt clear to me how this philosophy accomodates the hope of "divine intervention" at a daily level that most Hindus appear to subscribe too. Does Advaita actually diverge toward an explicit rejection of divine intervention? IOW, whatever the ultimate nature of God according to Advaita, does he/she/it actually listen to worshippers prayers and bring about change in the Universe in accord with the prayers?
[/quote]

Hindusim = Freedom of thought. (JMO)

Hinduism is to religion, what liberty is to civil government.

Hindusim is fundementally freedom of thought and worship. There is no single docrtine or founder or edict to follow and there are no institutions to adjudicate these sets of beliefs. There is no single time at which a theological idea was arbitrated and was adjudicated and finalzed as the "Truth". It is not an idea that is fossilized for ever.

It evolved as freedom of thought and it continued and still continues. Anyone could stand on others shoulders and contribute and take it to a direction as they want...and the rest may or may not decide to follow that train of thought. This is very unique to Hindusim.. I think. Its the ultimate freedom of faith. This is precisly the reason why no one can excommunicate me from being a Hindu. Ofcourse there is the social norm in which I could be an outcast but still.. I would still be a Hindu. Hinduism is a living religion....faith that adapts to new conditions. Thats why it never clashes with science. Along with this comes ...anarchy as well. Meaning bizzare strands of Hindusim (tantrics?) which are sometimes strange . This also gives the EvangaJihadists an opportunity to take any of these strange threads to beat up on Hindusim. This would be like the Islamists and even some conservative Hindus picking on ***** (that is part of freedom of speech) to piss on the concept of liberty and democratic culture and showcase the virtues of Islam.



Manny
Last edited by Manny on 04 Apr 2007 21:17, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Post by ramana »

Valkan, Some folks want to contact you to participate in their projects. I told them to post their request directly to you in this thread.
Raju

Post by Raju »

Sandeep, I meant 'Controlled' by ....

I thought that was implied. Ofcourse I know that there aren't any overt distinctions. But groups mostly stick to their communities Gurudwara esp when outside India.
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Post by SBajwa »

That's true!

Again it depends how well educated the community is! for example in New York City there used to be one Gurudwara (Richmond Hill) Lubana Community (Traders who are Sikhs from Punjab) became very strong and when Bibi Jagir Kaur became SGPC secretary due to her intrigues these guys in NY created another gurudwara named "Baba Makhan Shah Lubana Gurudwara"., as Jat Management was not giving them enough credit.

Here in Pittsburgh we have mix and match community of all Sikhs but nobody wants to be in committe and we never had any elections, you just pick somebody out of congregation and tell them that you are Secreatary and that guy is treasurer!! same with other small sized cities and areas where people are educated.

But in Toronto, vancouver, seattle, etc they are regular fights between supporters of two candidates (most often one Jat and other non Jat or a liberal Jat). and people do when talk among theselves as "Jatt Gurudwara" since its management is Jatt and so forth.
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Post by SaiK »

Perhaps the lost culture needs revival.. just imagine under Christianity or under its control, scientists like Darwin et al had real problems tabling the truth/fact identified under Evolution science against a massively ordaining church system of living.

Under Hinduism, no such path breaking efforts or enable revolutionary Einsteins and more such scientists 'cause ?... I think, its basically due to not continuing on what was left of as Vedic Science and Math, and we slept with it for 5000 or more years.. in the glory of its past heritage.. and that does'nt help.

Not augmenting Vedic education, even script for sanskrit language was only later adapted too, and thus in the preserves, lost a great tradition and living. Had there been 5000 years of writing thesis over thesis on top core Hinduism, I am sure, we would be chatting now from mars and jupiter [idiom].

may be something.. that is "not" as yet clear that why this did not happen. what went wrong?
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Post by Rakesh »

S.Valkan wrote:The operating clause is "legally purchased". It is obviously illegal to slaughter cows in some states of India, just as it is illegal to slaughter cats and dogs in the US. When the collective wills the opposite, and enacts laws, no individual can claim a right to his/her own choice of food.
The collective will has to make that into law and till that occurs, then the operating clause is "legally purchased." But I am all for shutting down illegal slaughterhouses in India. Get rid of the bird strike problem, although do legal slaughterhouses also contribute to that problem? Just because a slaughterhouse is legal, are they following correct disposal methods?
S.Valkan wrote:Excellent point. Wonder why this simple fact is not understood by one and all.
Cause people in India believe they are above the law or the law does not apply to them. When will we ever learn!
Raju

Post by Raju »

Sandeep, who controls the Dixie Gurudwara ??
ramana
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Post by ramana »

One thing lost in the rhetoric that Pakistan was the first Islamic state to be created in the modern/post colonial era is that a Hindu state in India was consciously prevented from emerging by the Indian Constituent Assembly itself when it debated the issues and enacted the laws to render this.
There were many reasons at that time - the trauma of Partition, provide protection to minorities from the tyranny of the majority und so weiter. But the prinicple reason was to prevent the return to anachrostic practices and a regression in Hindu India without an understandin of how those practices came about.

So there was a conscious decision to adopt modern practices in Hinduism. However it is time to take stock of how far it has progressed and if state control is infact preventing the march of Hinduism.


As a first step I would like the Temple EOs to have to leave the cadre just as when they are posted to PSE.
Next step is that Hindu temples should have the same rights accorded to them as to other minority instituions. Not more not less.


Knowing that great contributions to Sanskrit and Hinduism were from the so called backward classes, viz, Valmiki et al, I would like the govt to provide scholarships for reserved communities to take up Sanskrit and learn to become temple archakas if they want to retain control of the temples.


Has the DMK done this in TN?
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