Religion Thread - 9

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Pulikeshi
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Post by Pulikeshi »

Living Systems are open systems. In such systems, external influences will be embraced, sometimes to the deteriment of the organism (Hinduism). There will always be a Ambhi, for every Shankara or a Ramanuja within the system.

There are some, who will spend energies on consipiracy theories and who is brainwashing whom. There are others who will expound the philosophical and scientific beauty of Hindusim. Yet others will have to analyze the "system." All these activities will someday result in the formulation of a response, which will not be centralized or coordinated, but will come from deep within the Living System, even if we all do not understand all the aspects of it.
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Post by Pulikeshi »

Living Systems are open systems. In such systems, external influences will be embraced, sometimes to the deteriment of the organism (Hinduism). There will always be a Ambhi, for every Shankara or a Ramanuja within the system.

There are some, who will spend energies on consipiracy theories and on who is brainwashing whom. There are others who will expound the philosophical and scientific beauty of Hindusim. Yet others will have to analyze the "system." All these activities will someday result in the formulation of a response, which will not be centralized or coordinated, but will come from deep within the Living System, even if we all do not understand all the aspects of it.
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Post by S.Valkan »

Pulikeshi wrote:Organism's repond according to Hayek, with the individual no wiser. This explanation is satisfactory to me.
If it is satisfactory to you, bliss be upon you. :)

Maybe Hayek, or you, can make that breakthrough contribution on the ongoing biological "mystery" of biofilms.
We can spend a lot of time figuring out who is brainwashing whom, or we can think of how to project our ideas and thoughts on others.
So you plan on making offence the best defence ? :)
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Post by Prem »

Acharya wrote:
Prem wrote:
Then , question is how does Shiv's above observation fit in this ,what are the driving froces behind such integrating process and how they can be strengthen?
The answer is in the same para you have quoted. Once all the communities get the gyan that external sweet and sugar is actually fake then we get real freedom.
I do see the light and understand the forces behind current "leftists" and their motives and see a common operative pattern among jihadi, Ejs, Commie, psuedos, NGos etc. All working in tandem with same sliciing purpose, creating frictions and fissures . :evil:
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Post by Abhijit »

S.Valkan wrote:
Abhijit wrote: the intel and microsoft and dell people who need to understand these things continue to learn and advance the learning.

Crude analogy but probably apt.
I hope you can figure out why the analogy is not apt.
I do not doubt that the knowledge needs to be acquired, propagated and enhanced. The question is of priorities. Is the decline of the knowledge and sages the greatest threat? or is it secondary to something else? To me, the lack of political power of Hindus is the biggest threat and it is something that cannot be addressed by the knowledge route. On the other hand if the political power is acquired then there can be state patronage for the pursuit, preservation and propagation of knowledge. If a hypothetical investor wishes to put resources in revival of Hinduism then he/she would do well to address the acquisition of political power before investing in the knowledge preservation.
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Post by S.Valkan »

Abhijit wrote: I do not doubt that the knowledge needs to be acquired, propagated and enhanced. The question is of priorities. Is the decline of the knowledge and sages the greatest threat? or is it secondary to something else?To me, the lack of political power of Hindus is the biggest threat and it is something that cannot be addressed by the knowledge route.
Indefensible argument, really.

Hindus have been in power for nearly 60 years now, and you claim there is a "lack" of political power ? Strange, indeed!

On the other hand, the knowledge once lost would be next to impossible to regain.

Don't forget, this is not like deciphering of Egyptian hieroglyphics.

The 3-fold meaning ( Adidaivika, Adibhautika and Adhyatmika ) of every Vedic Mantra is hard to understand, leave alone reconstruct.

There is NO value to values unless they are deemed valuable.

Similarly, Understanding and Preservation of this Knowledge are an important priority ONLY if you value this knowledge.

Those who find greater value in ogling Mallika Sherawat's cleavage from the blissful comfort of their couches than spend the time to learn/transmit the sublime wisdom of their heritage, will hardly find this one a priority!
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Post by RajeshG »

Pulikeshiji/Disha

Talking of smart cracks, here is another one..

http://www.india-forum.com/articles/39/ ... Go-To-Hell

But that isnt the point and I honestly am not capable of articulating it any better then I already have.

----------------------

Shivji

Its not complex at all. Its very simple and you can see it in your (stop-criticizing) as well as Pulikeshiji's (only-a-subset) responses. We shy away from outright criticism when EJs carry out true-god/false-god propaganda. I have heard stories from elders about how to make a line shorter without erasing or touching it and I leave it to everybody's own good judgement to decide how effective that is as a dogma.

---------------------

Re the nature of the threat, somebody (PBUH) had posted this on BR a long time ago.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maudu ... .html#S109
There was a time in Makkah when although a storm of opposition had arisen in the pagan society of Quraish against the message of Islam preached by the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace), yet the Quraish chiefs hall not yet lost hope that they would reach some sort of a compromise with him. Therefore, from time to time they would visit him with different proposals of compromise so that he accepted one of them and the dispute between them was brought to an end. In this connection, different traditions have been related in the Hadith.

According to Hadrat Abdullah bin Abbas, the Quraish proposed to the Holy Prophet; "We shall give you so much of wealth that you will become the richest man of Makkah; we shall give you whichever woman you like in marriage; we are prepared to follow and obey you as our leader, only on the condition that you will not speak ill of our gods. If you do not agree to this, we present another proposal which is to your as well as to our advantage."When the Holy Prophet asked what it was, they said that if he would worship their gods, Lat and Uzza, for a year, they would worship his God for the same space of time. The Holy Prophet said: "Wait awhile; let me see what my Lord commands in this regard."Thereupon the revelation came down: Qul ya-ayyuhal- kafirun... and: Qul afa-ghair Allahi... (Az-Zumar: 64): "Say to them: ignorant people do you bid me to worship others than Allah?" (Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim, Tabarani). According to another tradition from Ibn Abbas, the Quraish said to the Holy Prophet: "O Muhammad, if you kiss our gods, the idols, we shall worship your God."Thereupon, this Surah was sent down. (Abd bin Humaid).
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Post by Pulikeshi »

S.Valkan wrote:
Pulikeshi wrote: Maybe Hayek, or you, can make that breakthrough contribution on the ongoing biological "mystery" of biofilms.
Yeah, we can have a discussion on biofilms or autopoiesis of Maturana y Varela and bore the *&@( out of everyone :mrgreen:
S.Valkan wrote:
Pulikeshi wrote: So you plan on making offence the best defence ? :)
There is only one way to play defence :mrgreen:
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Post by Abhijit »

Hindus have been in power for nearly 60 years now, and you claim there is a "lack" of political power ? Strange, indeed!
This is news to me. So let's see. In the past 60 years when in your estimation while Hindus have been in power:
- Millions of Kashmiri Hindus have been driven from their home, murdered, raped, looted and the Hindu power has done diddly squat.
- The number of Christian and Islamic converts within India has increased dramatically.
- A thousand years of destruction of Hindu monuments has been left unaddressed. No. of temples destroyed by invaders to number temples reclaimed 1000:1. Great Hindu power indeed.
- No. of non-Hindu schools to hindu schools 100000:1. Yeah I feel the power of Hindu regime.
- Number of times the vatican and jihadists have denigrated Hinduism to No of times the great Hindu political power even registered a protest. You tell me.
- No. of cows slaughtered within the borders of Hindu power India - millions?
- sankaracharya was incarcerated on trumped up charges while the great hindu power was ruling. never happened before.
- Hell even the history of systematic genocide of Hindus during the last 1000 years has been suppressed completely from the history books taught to hindu kids under this hindu regime.
The list is endless.
As for your cleavage fetish - it is beneath contempt for a response.
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Post by SaiK »

Pulikeshi wrote:Living Systems are open systems. In such systems, external influences will be embraced, sometimes to the deteriment of the organism (Hinduism). There will always be a Ambhi, for every Shankara or a Ramanuja within the system.

There are some, who will spend energies on consipiracy theories and on who is brainwashing whom. There are others who will expound the philosophical and scientific beauty of Hindusim. Yet others will have to analyze the "system." All these activities will someday result in the formulation of a response, which will not be centralized or coordinated, but will come from deep within the Living System, even if we all do not understand all the aspects of it.
Human Living systems are open and closed system. In the sense, Organism can't be considering an open passages for say a Virus on attack. As long as we don't let viruses and bacteria then its fine.

Collective Living entities and especially the advanced living systems provide feedbacks into the organizational setup for further advancing the social setup., plan, strategize for the prevention of erosion of the system if well formed. If the system as a whole is not well formed, corrections needs to be applied periodically. Else, the system collapses.

After Advaitam ended further augmentation of the Hindu living system, and was left to erode., with casual factors including Muslim Invasion, British Colonization, EJistic assaults, etc. Now, if the Hindu Living System still feels and happy about that the system they live in great and nothing needs worries, then there exists no weakness at all. But, that is not the case, as seen. Hence, there is a problem.

Science and Math advancements, did not take place keeping with a good Living system. Hence, the demise started way back. It now needs a Bharat Movement (Rakshak) that needs to spread the need that the system is becoming invaded, and needs to be protected.

otoh, there may be "full freedom"-ed selfs that may be satisfied 'cause they are doing good.. and heck with the social system of living. this is another fundamental problem of the core theories that lets off people to do unthinkable activities that hurts the living system.

collective living system has to care for each other.. should raise voice and arrest the disease if attacks happen. don't let the temple walls to stink in urination and the heart-full idols clean. protect all types of seekers with equal respect and care, as the core. things will be centered again on the m-theory soon.
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Post by Rakesh »

Abhijit wrote: As for your cleavage fetish - it is beneath contempt for a response.
Be Nice Abhijit :)
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Post by Prem »

Who is Malika Sherawat? is she a celebirty? :oops:
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Post by SaiK »

she "sells-up-pretty" much everything she has!~ hocus-pocus!
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Post by Calvin »

Now, the question is whether there is enough awareness in the IC (indian christian) to realize that joining forces with fellow Hindu Indians is also in the best interests of the IC??

This is the key question - I tried to ask Calvin this but I haven't received a response yet.
I don't know enough about the Indian Christian community to comment from experience.

From what I have seen, as individuals there is more dislike for Communists than for any other political movement. This is probably why the UDF had more KeralaCongress and IUML factions compared to the LDF. I dont know about Goa.
As luck would have it, I haven't met any Indian Christians who wore their EJ support on the sleeve and I am willing to believe that it is because they genuinely do not. The onslaught of EJ's can be stemmed only by the Indian Christians or else it will also get ugly.
I think it is probably important to make a distinction here, in the types of Evangelists that exist in India. There are US and European funded (primarily) protestant evangelists (Baptist, Pentecostal, 7thDay Adventist) and there are Indian funded (primarily) Catholic evangelists. I think the Catholic evangelists are probably priests/nuns etc (who are probably primarily running schools, hospitals, orphanages, vocational schools etc), whereas the protestant evangelists are probably regular people. I don't know how accurate this picture is, but it is from my limited experience in this matter.
For starters can we do away with State control of Hindu temples and religious trusts? ... Besides what is a secular govt doing while running Hindu temples and religious trusts?
This absolutely should be the case. IIRC, the 1954 Wakf act also gives government oversight over the Wakf properties. Is this the case, can anyone clarify?
No expert here but article 30 of the constitution allows only minorities to control and reserve upto 50% of the seats for their community, even with state funding.
This is why some Hindu organizations have declared themselves as a "minority" to do this. This is a silly law, and should go.
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Post by Pulikeshi »

SaiK wrote: Human Living systems are open and closed system. In the sense, Organism can't be considering an open passages for say a Virus on attack. As long as we don't let viruses and bacteria then its fine.
Open systems are those that at a minimum takes inputs, transforms those inputs to outputs, and has a feedback mechanism between output and input.

I recommend What is Life? by Schrodinger.

Here are some of my thoughts in a working paper:
A constant flow of energy and matter through the system is necessary for self-organization to take place. These flows are not unlike currency and trade between countries. Organisms are dissipative structures that are characterized by sensitivity to small changes in the environment.
Schrodinger's writing inspired the discovery of genes.
Genes are a mechanism to code "knowledge" in hardware (biology).
Memes are a mechanism to code "knowledge" in software (myths, religions, etc.)

“Now, since an organism’s structure at any point in its development is a record of its previous structural changes, and since each structural change influences the organism’s future behavior, this implies that the behavior of living organisms is determined by its structure. However, rather than being determined by outside forces, it is determined by the organism’s own structure – a structure formed by succession of autonomous structural changes. Thus the behavior of the organism is both determined and free." Web of Life – A New Scientific Understanding of Living Systems, Fritjof Capra, 1996

Therefore, if we become a closed system - fearing bacteria/virus - we can never evolve to "encode" response to those threats, which may make us vulnerable to other external shocks :mrgreen:
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Post by vsudhir »

Getting Serious About Happiness
Studying happiness is hard. What one man loves another loathes. One woman's joy is another's junk. Social scientists, therefore, have generally left the contemplation of smiles and satisfaction to poets and philosophers. But that's changing. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, a leading expert on well-being, is establishing what he calls the world's first Ph.D program focusing on positive psychology and the analysis of happiness, at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, Calif. "Even though the things that make people happy seem ephemeral and immaterial, they are the most important things in life, and they have not been studied very seriously," says Csikszentmihalyi, a professor of psychology and management and author of Flow: the Psychology of Optimal Experience.
I read Flow back in 2002. I even remember liking it.

Right till the point where the Author trashes the original Yindoo tradition of positive psychology in yoga.

Then I realized the guy has no clue on what he's talking about.
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Post by SaiK »

perhaps, when i meant to being both closed and open, in the sense - think of a filter.. there are extraneous things we don't want it, or keep it closed. this is the difference of opinion that i pointed to plug the weakness in open system.

filtered open system is perfect... i understand from the evolution point of view., from a physical sense. but once assimilation is done, there is a need to adapt a filter (pass that filter genes for immunization of the kiths) to the fellow beings.
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Post by shiv »

HariC wrote:Acharya,

I dont any need to 'tinyurl'-ize the India Forum links as they are not long enough in the first place. Or is there something that I am missing?
Correct.

Let the links be posted without tinyurlization. There is indeed something you have missed Hari C but that something must pass.
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Post by Alok_N »

Pulikeshi wrote:Schrodinger's writing inspired the discovery of genes.
thanks for posting the link to that book ... I wasn't aware of it ... I read a few pages and it is very interesting ...

it also reinforces my comment to Johann that "fundamental discoveries in biology will be made by physicists" ... 8)
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Post by shiv »

S.Valkan wrote:
shiv wrote: The locals inlcude a pecentage of Muslims. The children from Muslim families are often brought dressed up as "Krishna" or a Brahmin for fancy dress competitions for kids and the kids have no problem singing the Sanskrit shlokas that are taught along with other prayers and rhymes. The parents raise no objection to this.
There's perhaps no local fatwa machine.

Try that in UP, Bihar and Hyderabad, and there will be an instant dumptruckload of fatwas heaped on them and you, and calls of jihad based on 'Islam in danger' alarmist calls raised.
Valkan your assertion can be disputed or not disputed on an emotional gut feeling level

I believe that you have shown some indicators of your own personal life in science and I believe that objective science requires data.

When we look at population behavior too -we require data and not "datapoints" such as those I have provided and those that you have used to counter my datapoints.

Are Hindus incapable of providing serious data to buttress their arguments that Hindusism is under threat or are they fudging wherever convenient?

I say this as a Hindu because I really think some serious self goals are being scored by paranoid Hindu groups who are unable to differentiate threats from allies. I believe it is easier and more positive for Hindu to ask uncomfortable questions.

I notice that anyone who disputes any story of Hinduism under threat in India is automatically classified as "Left wing", "Marxist", "Christian" or "Brainwashed"

Arguments such as these will be laughed away in any serious forum anywhere in the world. These are Hindu self goals.

I'm not joking.
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Post by shiv »

For all its seeming chaos I believe that one or two things need to be remembered about India in general

a) Indians (like anyone else) are a mixture of people rational and emotional opinions. But when it comes to decision making and major changes of course, the "rational" people rule the roost. The "rational" people use tangible, quotable data in their advice so the data can be perused and disputed if need be. If the data can be shown to be fudged or wrong, the decisions of the rational people can be shown to be wrong.

But there is no getting around the fact that data has to be collected by some means.

Let me now make an "emotional statement" without data. How many Hindu parents on this forum say with pride that their son/daughter is (or is going to become) a "sociologist" or "Historian"? Hindus don't like to do these things because their earnings came from the "engineer"/"doctor" lines. Sociologists and historians are funded to live in way out places, collect data and write papers. What sociology is being funded by Hindus?

b) India is a moving target. People who leave India carry with them memories of India in the last state in which they left it.

As a ballpark figure I estimate that it takes about four years for the "memory" of India to be somewhat outmoded. This is getting particularly acute in these days of rapid development and furious construction. I believe India is going through a "boom" that is comparable to the US in the early 20th century and perhaps in the 1950s and 60s.

The only importance of this is that there are often conflicts between the India of one's memory and the India that is. An unavoidable problem here is that it is only the India that "is" that moves. The India of memories is gone forever.

The only realistic way of taking any action to modify the course of India that "is" will be to extrapolate and act to modify the India that "will be" in 5 or 10 years time.

A prediction of the India that "will be" requires an accurate assessment of the India that "is" for a period of several years.

If Hindus feel that someting is wrong - their data for extrapolation has to be right or they will miss the target. Accusing existing data of being wrong is not good enough. Accurate alternative data must be obtained.

Note that the same problem holds true for a Church group hoping to modify India. If their data today is wrong - their target will be off the mark.
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Post by shiv »

In a chaotic system a small change in the initial conditions can lead to massive and unpredictable effects at some future date.

Having said that, chaotic systems tend to have areas of stability that last for varying periods of time

If you consider Hindus as a chaotic group, it is worth seeing whether there are any "areas of stability" that can be tweaked for a predictable outcome in future.

Apart from these "areas of stability" - if you consider a vast mass of Hindus are chaotic, what can you do?

I am suggesting the constant infusion of Hindu knowledge in easily disseminable portions without doing anything to introduce a negative thought process that can have a backlash among a basically dharmic and satyameva jayate worshipping people in India.

This is merely a suggestion and anyone who understands the mumbo jumbo I write is welcome to criticise.
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Post by Manny »

Abhijit wrote:
Hindus have been in power for nearly 60 years now, and you claim there is a "lack" of political power ? Strange, indeed!
This is news to me. So let's see. In the past 60 years when in your estimation while Hindus have been in power:
- Millions of Kashmiri Hindus have been driven from their home, murdered, raped, looted and the Hindu power has done diddly squat.
- The number of Christian and Islamic converts within India has increased dramatically.
- A thousand years of destruction of Hindu monuments has been left unaddressed. No. of temples destroyed by invaders to number temples reclaimed 1000:1. Great Hindu power indeed.
- No. of non-Hindu schools to hindu schools 100000:1. Yeah I feel the power of Hindu regime.
- Number of times the vatican and jihadists have denigrated Hinduism to No of times the great Hindu political power even registered a protest. You tell me.
- No. of cows slaughtered within the borders of Hindu power India - millions?
- sankaracharya was incarcerated on trumped up charges while the great hindu power was ruling. never happened before.
- Hell even the history of systematic genocide of Hindus during the last 1000 years has been suppressed completely from the history books taught to hindu kids under this hindu regime.
The list is endless.
As for your cleavage fetish - it is beneath contempt for a response.
Say what? Yes..the Hindus have been in power for the last 60 years. And they are destroying Hinduism and the Hindus. Majority of the left wing are Hindus. What is so surprising?

There is a story.. Two friends one day having dinner..and the first says.. I can't stand my wife! a nd goes on complaining. The other fellow goes.. Well.. he actually loves his wife. but he is just saying that.

Out the window he sees his friend's wife being beaten up and so he points to his friend and says "Hey dude..you wife is getting beaten..Are you going to protect her". Comes the reply "Not really..she deserves it"


That dude is the lefty Hindu. the enemy of India., If India is hurt.. he actually wished it.
Last edited by Manny on 06 Apr 2007 07:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by svinayak »

Manny wrote:
Say what? Yes..the Hindus have been in power for the last 60 years. And they are destroying Hinduism and the Hindus. Majority of the left wing are Hindus. What is so surprising?
They are Hindus in name only. There was no expansion of Hinduism.
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Post by Calvin »

They are Hindus in name only. There was no expansion of Hinduism.
Can we say the same about Christians?
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Post by Calvin »

Shiv - probably something can be learned from the purveyors of the Great Global Warming hypothesis (i.e., how to position yourself in a changing world)
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Post by svinayak »

Calvin wrote:
They are Hindus in name only. There was no expansion of Hinduism.
Can we say the same about Christians?
Like the left wing Hindus?
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Post by Manny »

shiv wrote:
Let me now make an "emotional statement" without data. How many Hindu parents on this forum say with pride that their son/daughter is (or is going to become) a "sociologist" or "Historian"? Hindus don't like to do these things because their earnings came from the "engineer"/"doctor" lines. Sociologists and historians are funded to live in way out places, collect data and write papers. What sociology is being funded by Hindus?
Thats very simple to answer. Maslow explains it well in his hierarchy of needs. People who are hungry can only think of food..nothing else.. not even sex. there are certain priority of individuals would look towards. Food, Sex, roof over the head are basics ... it is only after these basics are satisified that one would look towards others needs.. like music and arts.

If one is from a third world country, the need to earn a living takes on certain importance. Hence the Indian parents nudging their kids to take hard education. like Engineer and doctor. Only when a country/people are econimically richer would they look for those other skill sets in the hierarchy of needs.
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Post by svinayak »

Manny wrote:
shiv wrote:
Let me now make an "emotional statement" without data. How many Hindu parents on this forum say with pride that their son/daughter is (or is going to become) a "sociologist" or "Historian"? Hindus don't like to do these things because their earnings came from the "engineer"/"doctor" lines. Sociologists and historians are funded to live in way out places, collect data and write papers. What sociology is being funded by Hindus?
Food, Sex, roof over the head are basics ... it is only after these basics are satisified that one would look towards others needs.. like music and arts.

If one is from a third world country, the need to earn a living takes on certain importance. Only when a country/people are econimically richer would they look for those other skill sets in the hierarchy of needs.
So who paid the Indian sociologist and Indian Historians?
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Post by Manny »

I would like to say something about Indian Christians. For the most part.. Indian Christians are anything like the EvangalicalJihdaidists. The vast majority of Indian Christians are lot more like Hindius in their values and culture. There is hardly any difference. A souuth Indian Hindu and a South Indian Christian and even a south Indian muslim are much more closer in their culture than even some one from Lucknow.

There is an Indian culture that transends religion. IMO.

But the EvanjaliJihadists are people from abroad who travel to India. Those kinds of Chrsitian population is negligeble as far as Indian Christians are concerned. Indian Christians are very much like liberal garden variety Christians of the west. Regular people. Nothing wrong.


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Post by Manny »

Acharya wrote:
So who paid the Indian sociologist and Indian Historians?
Well.. Its not like there are no Indian sociologusts or Indian historian. Its about..why do Indian parents in general encourage their kids towards skill sets like "Engineering/doctor" rather than softskils like sociology or history?

In a land of a billion..there will always be some sociologist and historians. Thats just outcome of statistics.

:)
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Post by svinayak »

Manny wrote:
Acharya wrote:
So who paid the Indian sociologist and Indian Historians?
Well.. Its not like there are no Indian sociologusts or Indian historian.

In a land of a billion..there will always be some sociologist and historians. Thats just outcome of statistics.

:)
It is not that simple. Somebody was hunting the Indian sociologists and Indian historian and influencing them to change.

I will give you a hint.
Heard of Romila Thapar and R C Sharma?

Their teacher was Kosambi
He was recruited by Harvard in 1947 to come there and reinterpret Indian literature.
In Bombay, he met Dr. James Wood from Harvard University, who was looking for a scholar adept in Sanskrit, Ardhamagadhi, and PÄ
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Post by samuel »

shiv wrote:In a chaotic system a small change in the initial conditions can lead to massive and unpredictable effects at some future date.

Having said that, chaotic systems tend to have areas of stability that last for varying periods of time

If you consider Hindus as a chaotic group, it is worth seeing whether there are any "areas of stability" that can be tweaked for a predictable outcome in future.

Apart from these "areas of stability" - if you consider a vast mass of Hindus are chaotic, what can you do?

I am suggesting the constant infusion of Hindu knowledge in easily disseminable portions without doing anything to introduce a negative thought process that can have a backlash among a basically dharmic and satyameva jayate worshipping people in India.

This is merely a suggestion and anyone who understands the mumbo jumbo I write is welcome to criticise.
Boy, this thread is zipping along!
Sorry Shiv, not sure I follow your analogy. Are you really refering to a chaotic process (in the sense of Lorenz) and not a stochastic process, or is the analogy not meant to be read so deeply.

At any rate, I wonder if the better measure is not necessarily one of disseminating hinduism in easily digestible bits, but rather its utility in helping to improve the daily lives of its subscribers?

Here then is what I surmise:
1) We don’t need to proselytize to thrive. The religion exists and grows organically, it maintains homeostasis and generally embodies the "gaia hypothesis."
2) We need to protect Hinduism's institutions, symbols, places, ethos (etc.) vigourously. We need to develop and recite our narrative on an equal footing with our rituals.
3) We need to rigorously introspect on contradictions within our world-view and stay current with time.
4) Hinduism's institutions must constantly seek ways to enhance the daily lives of people who subscribe to it.

These tenets, if you will, appear to be appealing and consistent way to sustain it. Your question on evidence of entropy's action on the hindu world-view has got me; much research is necessary.
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Post by Alok_N »

Candyman,

I hope you are not going to launch into a lucknow bashing tirade ... :)

anyway, there is a lot of truth in the "doctor/engineer" mindset disease ... even my mostly enlightened father didn't appreciate the fact that I had quit IIT within days of joining ... "you are throwing away a career" was the general refrain ...

a cousin of mine is in the Archaeological Survey of India ... He was a very bright student and the word on the grapevine was that he had gone bonkers ... as evidenced by his desire to study history ... "he could have done so well" was the lament ...

another cousin (female) is an anthropologist ... the word there was "it is ok because she is a girl and can't be expected to be good at math" ... :lol:
Sajan
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Post by Sajan »

From what I have seen, as individuals there is more dislike for Communists than for any other political movement. This is probably why the UDF had more KeralaCongress and IUML factions compared to the LDF
I don't think this holds true anymore. Look at the results of last couple of elections and you can see that KC/UDF doesn't have a monopoly over christian votes in Kerala, despite UDF campaigning under a christian CM(70% of seats in christian majority districts like Ernakulam, Idukki etc. went to LDF). IUML is also losing steam, based on the last assembley/parliament elections.
This is a silly law, and should go
I agree it is a silly law and minority educational "merchants" have been exploiting the provisions of the law with support of the courts.
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Post by Manny »

Acharya wrote:
By recruiting one historian they have changed the history writing of an entire nation and civilization.
Acharya,

I am not disputing what you are saying.. in the sense, I am not saying these are not important. I actually agree, that these are important and the contributions made. I was just agreeing with Valcan as about the rational for tendency of the middle class Indians impetus for an "engineering/Doctor" profession.
Last edited by Manny on 06 Apr 2007 08:49, edited 1 time in total.
Manny
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Post by Manny »

Alok_N wrote:Candyman,

I hope you are not going to launch into a lucknow bashing tirade ... :)
Ofcourse not.. Not yet.

:D
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Post by svinayak »

Manny wrote:I was just agreeing with Valcan as about the tendency of the middle class Indians impetus for an "engineering/Doctor" profession.
No dispute with that. If these "engineering/Doctor" are worried about social sciences and problems discussed here then they should fund the Indian historians/scoiologists. That is what I am saying.
Manny
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Post by Manny »

Acharya wrote:
Manny wrote:I was just agreeing with Valcan as about the tendency of the middle class Indians impetus for an "engineering/Doctor" profession.
No dispute with that. If these "engineering/Doctor" are worried about social sciences and problems discussed here then they should fund the Indian historians/scoiologists. That is what I am saying.
As India is economically improving.. It would help India in terms of culture.

When someone says... India used to be so rich once... and what not.. Even though its often said by the "introverted" "Jingos", one cannot dismiss the truth to that statement. No poor people, no peasant culture could have thought of producing the vedas, Upanishards etc...if you take maslows theory seriously.

Development of economy and capitalism in general is important and good for India and its culture. More and more Indians are looking beyond 'Enginering/Doctor" thing and that is good... and its needed.
Last edited by Manny on 06 Apr 2007 09:00, edited 2 times in total.
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