Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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Singha
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Aug 2018 15:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2uG-vCDpfI

bial planespotting. other than solitary 777 from BA and air mauritius, its the local small fry and gulfies having run of the place.

no respectable heavy on the scene

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 09 Aug 2018 15:50

Singha wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2uG-vCDpfI

bial planespotting. other than solitary 777 from BA and air mauritius, its the local small fry and gulfies having run of the place.

no respectable heavy on the scene


Isn't Air Mauritius flight Airbus A340? The weekly once flight from bial to maa to port lois.
Last edited by Karthik S on 09 Aug 2018 18:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 09 Aug 2018 17:02

yes i was on that its a340.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 10 Aug 2018 02:03

Singha wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2uG-vCDpfI

bial planespotting. other than solitary 777 from BA and air mauritius, its the local small fry and gulfies having run of the place.

no respectable heavy on the scene

Lufthansa has a daily flight to BLR using a 747-8. I remember sitting at Frankfurt airport a few years ago waiting for the FRA-BOM flight. I could see 2 Lufthansa 747's outside parked at adjacent gates - one heading to BOM the other to BLR.

Of course you TFTA bangalorites got a shiny new 747-8 while we mumbaikars were saddled with a sad old 747-400. It is still the case today. The Uber TFTA dilli billis get an A380 now.

Lufthansa seems to be making hay along with the ME carriers. They have daily flights from FRA to DEL, BOM, MAA and BLR. Plus daily flights from MUC to BOM and DEL.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 08:14

note the small 737 sized plane of Etihad. i think gulfies now get access to some 10+ places in india with such small planes like lucknow, mangalore, trichy

i dont know if indian private carriers have been given the reciprocal slots that AI we know is in no position to use. they should be given

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 08:41



interview with the MD.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 08:51



interesting analysis. but imo despite the long range of the 787 and a350, the hub model will remain because just by graph theory one needs less planes to make it work than a dense point to point network. premium routes like singapore or sydney to london/frankfurt/paris/SFO/LAX/NYC would no doubt be p2p but not for a guy travelling economy from perth to cape town if p2p is 20% costlier he will fly through dubai

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Aug 2018 09:38

Singapore-London is not quite point to point. That's one half of a very special route - the Kangaroo Route. This is very much hub and spoke, since Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane etc all feed into Singapore and thence to London. That's why one sees vast numbers of Aussies in Singapore airport. There are no nonstops between UK and Australia - that is simply too long, except for the recently announced Perth-London.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 16:30

AUS seems to have a very hard currency permitting them to punch above their weight in terms of international travelling. ASEAN is awash at all corners with aussies and a lot of them travel to europe particularly UK for edu,work,play.

i have seen quantas a380 in singapore. and quantas was the only airline to have a all-747 fleet given the vast distances needed just to cross australia

the entire pop of australia must be greater mumbai or ncr around 25 million.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 16:45

what is their economic model to sustain such a high std of living I am trying to understand. around half of their employment seems to be in govt or semi-govt run sectors ?
Image
Image

mining+agri is only 5% workers contrary to popular perception.

is it that Govt is very rich through exports and taxes on food and minerals and hence able to support some 50% of workers on some govt or semi-govt jobs while rest are in pvt sector ?

it has some 10 mil people less than canada but the same per capita GDP, despite canada having the immense advantage of king gorilla next door and open economic integration.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chola » 10 Aug 2018 17:12

^^^ Singapore’s king gorilla is Cheen. The place is 75% Chinese and serves as port city for the China trade into ASEAN. Nothing really mysterious about it. It’s role is the same as Hong Kong’s.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 10 Aug 2018 17:22

Singha wrote:note the small 737 sized plane of Etihad. i think gulfies now get access to some 10+ places in india with such small planes like lucknow, mangalore, trichy

i dont know if indian private carriers have been given the reciprocal slots that AI we know is in no position to use. they should be given



They paid a pretty penny for this privilege as well as suppression of privilege.

Jet's current difficulties may be the result of the gelf ropers treating India as a personal fiefdom and not understanding the enormity of changes that have since taken place after the change of guard.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Aug 2018 20:24

This is the CivAv thread. Let's not get sidetracked discussing Aussie and Singapore economic structures :)

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 10 Aug 2018 21:08

$$ is intimately tied to growth of civil aviation.

ibn

Jet Airways stock has tumbled 66 percent this year, making it the worst performing airline stock in Asia Pacific amid investor concerns over its outlook. India's benchmark Sensex index has gained 11 percent.

"We need to recover the money and value we have lost," Jet Airways Chairman Naresh Goyal said at the airline's annual general meeting Thursday. "I feel guilty, I feel embarrassed that we have not been able to perform, especially with shareholders who stood with us."

Jet Airways's rivals are faring no better either. The entire sector has been hit by rising fuel prices, depreciation of the rupee and debt to fund aircraft purchases and rapid growth. IndiGo, operated by InterGlobe Aviation Ltd., posted a 97 percent drop in net profit, its worst-ever quarterly performance. SpiceJet will be reporting earnings next week.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 10 Aug 2018 23:50

^^We might see some of the new aircraft orders curtailed or deliveries deferred if it goes on like this.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 11 Aug 2018 08:54

Most of Jet's issues are of their own making IMHO, and mainly a product of confused and inconsistent strategy.

When IndiGo first started growing rapidly around 2014 in the early days of our ongoing and historic domestic market boom, Jet walked away from it saying they wanted to focus on international routes. In a market growing in high double digits you need to add multiple flights to even stand still from a market share perspective, but they even withdrew some flights from domestic sectors, leaving a void which has now been filled by LCCs at the lower end and Vistara at the FSC side.

More recently after Vinay Dube came in, they suddenly seem to have realised the importance of being present in their home market which is already among the world's Top 5 civil aviation markets and have been trying (rather unsuccessfully) to make up the lost ground.

Just do a random search for flights on the leading metro pairs in the country and you will find hardly 2-4 flights a day on most by Jet (barring BOM-DEL) while say an IndiGo would dump 20-30 in some cases.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby manish » 11 Aug 2018 08:57

Also bear in mind the economic turmoil in the gelf which for long had been the bread and butter market foe Jet. That cash cow is not what it used to be.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 11 Aug 2018 20:55

tractors are towing planes to near the runway at kochi before engine start to prevent sucking in water

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 11 Aug 2018 22:18

Guwahati Airport Reports Highest Growth Among Top Airports In India, Climbs Table To Eighth Busiest Airport
Guwahati’s Lokapriya Gopinath Bordoloi International Airport (LGBIA) has reported a growth of 31 per cent in passenger movement over the last one year according to data from the Airports Authority of India (AAI), reports The Sentinel. LGBIA’s growth was the highest among the twelve busiest airports in India, and has pushed it up the list of the country’s top airports to the eight position.

The sole international airport serving the Northeast, it handled 34.5 lakh passengers in 2016 and 45.3 lakh in 2017. LGBIA was followed by Kolkata’s Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose International Airport (NSCBIA) which showed 28 per cent growth, handling 18.8 lakh passengers in 2017. LGBIA handled 41,172 aircraft movements in the corresponding period last year.

LGBIA is currently undergoing expansion with construction on a new terminal underway which is set to open in 2021. Spread over 90,000 square metre, the new terminal will be able to handle over 3,000 passengers per hour.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 11 Aug 2018 23:34

here's the AAI data :
https://www.aai.aero/sites/default/file ... annex3.pdf

Image

some of those growth rates are just gobsmacking ! 90%, 66%, 48.9%, 47.6% !! :eek:

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 13 Aug 2018 09:34

Singha wrote:tractors are towing planes to near the runway at kochi before engine start to prevent sucking in water


This video is from the 2013 flood. With the current flood situation, there was no water anywhere in the airport.

A lot of videos goes around like this. Some from the 2013 flood. Some from other airports.

Some newspaper from Trivandrum even published a report, saying that "our airport" is all ready to receive all the planes diverted from Cochin.

Eventually, nothing happened. CIAL had done its job and put in the proper drains, not only within the airport, but also with the streams outside. Once water levels rose in the river, they shut down landings for two hours as precaution and took stock. They deployed earthmovers to clear some accumulated debris in the streams outside etc.

End result... Everything normal onlee...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 14 Aug 2018 01:47

Rahul M wrote:some of those growth rates are just gobsmacking ! 90%, 66%, 48.9%, 47.6% !! :eek:

And most of those at the relatively smaller cities like Bhubaneshwar, Tirupati, Vijaywada etc. It is impossible to plan for this kind of growth I guess when it comes to airport infra. They are going to end up feeling like railway stations for a while till the terminals and other facilities are expanded.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby hnair » 16 Aug 2018 12:19

The current flood situation at CIAL is much worse than the one back in 2013. Heard from head of fire service there that a lot of electrical systems are bust and the airport might remain closed beyond saturday, if spares dont come in.

Dileep wrote:End result... Everything normal onlee...


:(


Should go somewhere along with "LCA Mk2 is dead" :evil:

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 16 Aug 2018 12:45

hnair wrote:The current flood situation at CIAL is much worse than the one back in 2013. Heard from head of fire service there that a lot of electrical systems are bust and the airport might remain closed beyond saturday, if spares dont come in.

KL I guess is seeing the next biggest flood since "flood of 1099" (in Malayalam calendar, 1924 on Gregorian calendar). How can this spares reach the airport by Saturday? Major routes to CIAL I guess are also now blocked due to land slides.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dileep » 16 Aug 2018 14:56

I am not sure about the "Since flood of 1099" part. This might have surpassed the 1099 flood. (For those not familiar, the 1099 is the Malayalam Calendar year, which is 1924 in CE.)

HN, there is no comparison with the 2013 flood and now. ANY kind of countermeasure would not work in the current situation. My comment was based on the flood of last week when Idukki was originally opened. Who could have guessed that the next wave would be like this?

Right now, water came over the NH and filling the low lying region near NAD. The river level is upto 10 metres above the normal swell.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Sachin » 16 Aug 2018 16:11

Dileep wrote:Right now, water came over the NH and filling the low lying region near NAD. The river level is upto 10 metres above the normal swell.

My understanding is that airports at Thiruvananthapuram and Karippur* are operational and flights can be diverted there? But I also know that lot of flights generally give Bangalore as the alternate airport in their flight plan. This AFAIK is because the pilots feels that weather conditions in these two airports can be very similar to what is there at CIAL.

Also there are rumours of opening up the Naval Air Base at Kochi (which once used to act as the domestic airport). Don't know how true this is.

* On social media I saw lots of Karippur Airport fans now taunting their rivals (!?) for suggesting the closure of this airport.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Aug 2018 23:03

airports have miles of electrical cables for lights and landing aids, and underground fuel storages and pipes in some airports (like blr does not use fuel tankers but fuel comes via pipes to each parking area)

all of thats gotta be cleaned, flushed, checked out.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2018 03:07

GVK looks to raise capacity at Navi Mumbai International Airport.

Mumbai International Airport Ltd, the GVK-led consortium building the Navi Mumbai International Airport (NMIA), is enhancing the contours of the project, doubling its initial yearly passenger handling capacity to 20 million and increasing the final capacity by 50% to 90 million, said two people in the know.

“The initial plan in the first phase is for 10 million and another 10 million in the next, but based upon the projected demand we may complete the phases together,” said a spokesperson for GVK, confirming the matter. (Ah some common sense being shown, but IMO it will still be inadequate and within a couple of years of there will be saturation even at the new airport before the next phase is commissioned)

“Currently, the annual capacity is pegged at 60 million passengers, however, we are looking into the possibility of increasing it further” based on the projected growth, he added.

The concession agreement for building and operating the airport is for an ultimate capacity of 60 million passengers. GVK’s plans to go beyond that would have to be approved by the City and Industrial Development Corporation of Maharashtra (CIDCO),the nodal body that has approved and awarded the project.

The decision may, however, push the date of starting operations at the airport beyond the government mandated 2020-21. One of the people cited above, said it would take 3-4 years.

Initial investment will increase too, although neither of the people cited nor the spokesman gave any idea as to what it would be. The total project cost is currently estimated at about Rs 16,000 crore.

According to one of the people cited above, the Navi Mumbai airport will ultimately have three terminals, with the provision for a fourth. It will at any time be able to handle 120 parked, landing and taxiing planes once the total airport project is completed. The GVK spokesperson denied provisions of a fourth terminal but confirmed the aircraft capacity as part of the final plan.

India is the fastest growing major aviation market in the world and will require an investment of more than $45 billion in airports in the coming decades, according to industry estimates.

The much-delayed Navi Mumbai airport is seen as a critical alternative to the existing airport in India’s financial capital which is already bursting at its seams. Mumbai’s airport is India’s second busiest and also its most congested. It handled 48.50 million passengers in 2017-18 and holds the record for being the world’s busiest single-runway airport.

GVK, via GVK Airport Holding, owns 50.5% in Mumbai International Airport Ltd. (MIAL), the consortium that runs the existing airport and has won the bid for NMIA. MIAL’s other stakeholders are Airports Company South Africa (10%), Bidvest (13.5%) and the state-run Airports Authority of India (26%).

NMIA will be built on 1,160 hectares of land in phases. The initial concession period is 30 years from the appointed date and is extendable for a further 10 years. GVK recently announced financial closure — that is has tied up funds — for the project.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 21 Aug 2018 08:23

what is the plan for the sahar airport once navi mumbai opens? will it remain operational in mixed use mode or go only domestic?
is there a light railway being built between the two to permit catching connecting flights more easily?
buses will be too slow i feel - 30km.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/navi+ ... 73.0848266

a elevated light rail built mostly over the shallow creek will work...skirt any built up areas.
Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2018 18:02

GVK is yet to come out with their plans on the functioning of the two airports once Navi Mumbai airport starts operations. There are little chances of clear demarcations (Domestic/Regional only VS international or budget carrier Vs full service mode) between the two airports.

For connectivity between the two airports there are various plans(yes plans..) for travel between two airports on all modes -metro, rail and road.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Aug 2018 18:17

manish wrote:Also bear in mind the economic turmoil in the gelf which for long had been the bread and butter market foe Jet. That cash cow is not what it used to be.


jet's ownership was in dubious hands right from the beginning. They were not allowed into the US for many years because of the suspected jehadi funding.

I have a strong feeling that jet has much more foreign ownership than is being disclosed or even legally allowed by Indian regulations.

Jet's financial convulsions are because of it's largely undisclosed arab principals and benami foreign stakeholders going into a tailspin because of the current gulf situation.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 21 Aug 2018 19:00

MCA probes Jet Airways on suspicion of siphoning funds: Sources

Further, the RoC may also look into the role of auditors. Arvind Gupta, who recently became famous as the whistleblower in the ICICI Bank-Videocon case, recently wrote to the Finance Ministry, SEBI, RBI and the Chief Vigilance Commission, complaining of irregularities.

Gupta questioned the audit committee's inability to "prevent the promoters of Jet Airways from siphoning off Rs 5,125 crore from the companies".

According to Gupta, the company, under its Jet Airways and Jet Lite brands, undertook transactions "under the guise of selling and distribution expenses and other means" with companies privately owned by the promoter.

However, the MCA’s probe is independent of Gupta’s complaint.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 21 Aug 2018 20:20

And hence Swamy has been after them for a while now.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vasu » 22 Aug 2018 14:12

Vips wrote:GVK is yet to come out with their plans on the functioning of the two airports once Navi Mumbai airport starts operations. There are little chances of clear demarcations (Domestic/Regional only VS international or budget carrier Vs full service mode) between the two airports.

For connectivity between the two airports there are various plans(yes plans..) for travel between two airports on all modes -metro, rail and road.


Most critical for Navi Mumbai Airport would be the Nhava Sheva Sewri Trans Harbour Link (or Mumbai THL), which is expected to be ready by 2021. MMRDA is building it on its own with a huge JICA loan, and work is already underway. Not just the NMIA, but it will give South and Central Mumbai direct access to the Mumbai Pune Expressway and to the rest of the mainland.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 22 Aug 2018 15:24

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...............

Taking advantage of the flood situation, jet airways has savagely jacked up its prices.

this can only come about with a rapacious and majority foreign ownership

Image

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Aug 2018 16:39

wow. brutal. they need to be taken to task and fined.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 22 Aug 2018 17:11

There is only one seat left. May be thats the reason. But how can 5 flights all depart at same time from single runway?. I have doubts on the image.

Added later.
Even Air india is charging 41000 for 1 seat pending on same route for tmrw ticket on same route as seen on cleartrip app.
Last edited by arvin on 22 Aug 2018 17:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby nam » 22 Aug 2018 17:17

Or a dubai/abu dhabi flight. Why would domestic flight reach Trivd at 5 in the morning?

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 22 Aug 2018 20:00

chetak wrote:The screen shot is not reflecting accurate picture as the most of the jet flights have 2 stops and the duration is 20 hr plus. So we need to have an awareness of which 2 cities the flights are stopping before commenting on the fare.

This! Jet may not have direct flights between whatever cities are selected or they may be sold out. 2 stops means a total of three flights.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 22 Aug 2018 20:11

Singha wrote:wow. brutal. they need to be taken to task and fined.


For what? following capitalist principles of supply and demand? Do we want a socialist/quasi-commie regime in India?


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