Indian Manufacturing Sector

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Vadivel
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vadivel »

We do have good water resources vis Ganga and Brhamputra

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -a-drought


But environmental damage also needs to be taken into account. An alternate view

https://www.chinawaterrisk.org/resource ... onductors/
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vadivel »

tandav wrote:
Vadivel wrote:
Interesting that they started in 1970s and did not get very far inspite of govt help and investment. It is the private companies like INARI etc there which have lead the charge. The Govt owned SILTERRA is a loss maker second only to the Malaysian Airlines.

I think India has no entity in either front end or the back end semiconductor manufacturing process as mentioned in the clip. Not only that SEMI Conductor manufacturing requires a massive amount of water which unless we secure the Himalayas or install huge desalination plants we will not be able to get to play with the big boys.
Not only malaysia, even Singapore stumbled on trying chip manufacturing. We have to be careful and very cautious in case venturing out on this...

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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

vinamr_s wrote:vcsekhar ji,

Considering you have several years of experience in the electronic component manufacturing industry, you must be having some idea on the impact of SEZ (assuming companies you worked with were exporting). Especially, the impact on companies which aren’t/couldn’t get into an SEZ. It might be quite tough to compete with SEZ units as they get a lot of tax exemptions. Can you illuminate us on that and how exporters have been reacting all these years?

Some macro data can give us hint on export market shift to SEZ units, (and I’m trying to collect related data), but I wanted to know the reactions at the individual level.
...please no Ji for me...

I dont have much experience with the SEZ's except that some of our customers are located in an SEZ and when we supply to them, it is treated as a deemed export. But the pricing is in Rupees, so I am not sure what deemed export means.

we have not gone to an SEZ even though our business is majority export because it was not worth the hassle. If there was a new project that was large enough it would make sense, but we normally concentrate on organic growth. The main benefit that I see for the SEZ units is the ease of import of materials from abroad. Maybe someone who actually works in an SEZ manufacturing stuff would know better. One of our suppliers is located in an SEZ in mumbai and its a real pain getting anything from them quickly.

I suppose if you were a PE or VC funded company with a lot of cash, it would make sense to setup in an SEZ if your market was mostly outside of india. In any case, many of the income tax benefits of being in an SEZ are being phased out, so does it make sense to start a new unit now? I dont know.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

I don't know what would be the problem with importing materials outside of SEZ. As long as you have your GST and IEC and pay the customs duty promptly there is no problem at all. Honestly things are very smooth these days everything is online.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

csaurabh wrote:I don't know what would be the problem with importing materials outside of SEZ. As long as you have your GST and IEC and pay the customs duty promptly there is no problem at all. Honestly things are very smooth these days everything is online.
I am not sure how many import shipments you handle, but, we get probably one per week or sometimes more and have been doing this for probably 35+ years. Yes, things have improved over the years. But, its still a pain and a lot of documents need to be made for every shipment. It still takes about 3 days minimum (if there are no questions) to clear customs even when a shipment is coming via Fedex or UPS. Assessments are supposed to be faceless, but, since we file under concessional duty (for our components) its not so simple and invariably the officers will ask our guys to come and meet them to "explain" everything. All of this adds a lot of time and cost to our operations.

Now, if you try to save cost and import used machinery for your factory, that is a whole different story, now you have to deal with a chartered engineer to value the machines and deal with arbitrary valuations pushed by customs for the machinery you have legitimately purchased and imported.
All of these are little impediments and when you add up everything its not very easy to run a manufacturing business.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Dexter »

The industry has painted itself into a corner by focusing on single-digit nanometer,” Caulfield said in an online press conference Tuesday, referring to the current obsession with smaller, more advanced manufacturing geometries. “Today we have cars sitting in a parking lot missing chips made on 45 or 65 nanometer.”

https://m.economictimes.com/small-biz/t ... 769118.cms

Can India see a market in this legacy technology where 45nm Silicon is the requirement
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by venkat_kv »

^^^
It would take monumental focus and dedication for Indian industry and govt to establish a 45nm. i don't think we have any fabs to do a quick manufacturing of chips (45nm or even older). we would need the private industry to come in and establish and the govt to give sops for an extended period of time for the eco system to develop.

the chip shortage is probably going to subside in a year or two and that is probably not enough time for us to capture the market by starting production afresh. besides we also have foundries being established back in the US and they will pick up some slack/market demand.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Ambar »

Its been an year since Atlas Bicycles shutdown permanently and with it died a homegrown brand which back in the 60s and 70s was one of the few Indian companies to export finished goods to foreign markets. In my boyhood days there were 4 prominent bicycle manufacturers in India who produced everything from tricycles for small kids to 24 inch frame bicycles that served as transportation for the poor and the lower middleclass, these 4 brands were BSA,Hero, Atlas and Hercules. While Hero diversified into automobiles, auto ancillaries, software manufacturing finance etc, and BSA benefited from being part of the Murugappa group empire, Atlas did not diversify and paid the price. That said it was sad to see a legendary homegrown manufacturer shutdown permanently just when in the last 10 yrs fitness conscious urban Indians have once again started buying bicycles, ofcourse the difference between today and 25 yrs ago is that now there are hundreds of brands thanks to imports from China and Vietnam with little to no restriction but back in the 70s or 80s we just had 4 homegrown brands (agreed that BSA and Hercules were borrowed from Britain but their manufacturing was entirely in India).

What i'm really afraid is what may happen in say 10 or 15 yrs time if wealthy Chinese companies make a move on japanese auto manufacturers and buy them out just like Geely took over the legendry Volvo or SAIC with MG cars.
Started by Janki Das Kapoor, Atlas Cycles (Haryana) Ltd., previously known as Atlas Cycle Industries (ACIL), begin its operation with bicycle saddles in 1951 and later produced its first bicycle in 1952. The brand is named after the Greek Titan Atlas, mythically known for being condemned to hold up the sky for eternity. From a humble beginning of 120 cycles per day, the company had come a long way to progress as India’s second-largest cycle manufacturer. At the time of Atlas’s business peak, Its combined manufacturing capacity stood at a substantial 3.1 million cycles per annum. Atlas was also the largest exporter of bicycles from India, where the majority of its export was to Myanmar and South Africa. In addition to bicycles, the company exported components, bicycles, and mopeds. It also ventured into the fitness equipment market overseas.

At the peak of its success, Atlas awarded its shareholders six bonus issues between 1966 and 1994. While the rest of the world celebrated Bicycle Day on 3 June, Atlas Cycle (Haryana) Limited put its employees into temporary dismissals by merely pasting a notice outside its production plant in Sahibabad, Haryana. Over 700 employees suddenly went home without jobs on Wednesday. Atlas Cycles – a name that became a synonym for bicycles in India – has shut its last manufacturing unit in Sahibabad, just outside the national capital, citing a lack of funds to run the factory.

Earlier, the company planned to sell their portion of land to get the business going. However, the company’s spokesperson confirmed that they have been surviving unstable financial states since 2014 to the extent they were out of the capital to purchase raw material. The Sahibabad plant, capable of manufacturing four million bicycles a year, was working at less than 50 percent of its capacity. The closure notice was declared so suddenly and secretively, caught everyone by surprise that the workers’ union had little time to react.

However, the decline was not sudden. Between, 2014 and 2018, the company shut down two of its manufacturing plants. First – the Malanpur unit in Madhya Pradesh announced its closure and then, later, the Sonipat unit in 2018. One of the critical reasons for Atlas’s failure was the availability of new cheaper parts exporters from Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. These affordable parts ate in the Atlas’s share in their biggest market – India as it allowed smaller players to manufacture cost-effective bicycles. The coffin’s final nail was the duty-free import from Bangladesh and Srilanka under the Agreement on South Asia Free Trade Area (SAFTA). The move led to an influx of cheaper bicycles into the Indian market from the two countries. But the game was never fair for Atlas as Bangladesh and Srilanka have protectionist policies that levied heavy import duty on products coming from India. So, while the Indian market was flooded with export from the two countries, prominent Indian players like Atlas could not export to the two countries. It thereby led to substantial losses. The company blamed the government for being neglected by the lopsided policies.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

https://swarajyamag.com/business/mukesh ... lonisation

I don't understand this lionization of Reliance. What exactly is the technology developed by Reliance?
They just provide good installation and services using Chinese and Western equipment. Not exactly something to be proud of.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by sum »

Hats off to the Chinese for setting up a goal and marching towards it despite any urdle and ridicule of others around them.

Really wish we emulate the mindset behind this :
Huawei’s HiSilicon moving into advanced 5G app chips
According to an industry insider who spoke to Asia Times, you don’t need to put a 5nm chip into a laptop because processing is moving back to the center with rapid emergence of 5G.

The key is fast communications, which means the Chromebook idea could dominate the market in the future.

“You can set up massive parallel processing arrays with 14-28 nm chips that are as fast as you want, and the laptop is simply a dumb terminal for this central processor,” the insider said.

“The importance of the superfast, narrow gateway chips is exaggerated. China can now or soon will be able to produce all the 14-28nm chips it needs — and that’s 98-99% of the total market.”

China’s 30-year-long semiconductor journey has grown into a major player, accounting for nearly 13% of the global IC design market in 2020.
Amid the continuing trade and tech standoff with the US, China has been speeding up the development of domestic fabrication plants to localize the most vital elements of the technology supply chain.

In that IC assembly line, a lithography machine is fundamental to the entire manufacturing chain.

China’s “national champion” in the area, Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (SMEE), which was founded in 2002 by Shanghai Electric Group, is, per some reports, full speed ahead to develop its second-generation deep ultraviolet (DUV) immersion lithography system, which could produce down to 7nm chips with multiple patterning.

In 2002, a lithography machine technology research project was first included in China’s National High-tech R&D Program (863 Program). SMEE was founded in the same year.

Its research in the area continued in the “02 Special Project,” along with other 15 National Special Projects published in the National Outlines for Medium and Long-term Planning for Scientific and Technological Development (2006-2020) in 2006.
Since the project was launched, SMEE has gradually become the primary designer and the “integrator” of a plethora of made-in-China lithography equipment components.

By no means is this a magic carpet ride — China’s chip industry still faces massive challenges and fierce competition.

But to date, SMEE has developed 4 series of lithography machines for IC front-end manufacturing, IC back-end advanced packaging, LED/ MEMS /power devices and TFT circuit manufacturing.

As of June 2021, SMEE’s most advanced device is its “600 series” scanner for IC front-end manufacturing. This machine can be used to build chips at the 90nm, 110nm and 280nm process technologies.

“It’s very unlikely that the US will remove us from the Entity List,” billionaire founder Ren Zhengfei said in February at the opening of a mining innovation laboratory partly sponsored by Huawei. “Right now, we just want to work harder and keep looking for new opportunities to survive.”
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Pratyush »

csaurabh wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/business/mukesh ... lonisation

I don't understand this lionization of Reliance. What exactly is the technology developed by Reliance?
They just provide good installation and services using Chinese and Western equipment. Not exactly something to be proud of.

They have developed domestic 5g network. The fabrication will have to be done by overseas partners. But the technology is Indian.

As a matter of fact Airtel has also developed this technology. But they are may be 9 to 12 months behind reliance. In terms of execution.

That is why the article is saying what it is.

Tech is important. Fabrication can follow in due course of time.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by isubodh »

csaurabh wrote: They just provide good installation and services using Chinese and Western equipment. Not exactly something to be proud of.
With a child watching him stand up own it's legs itself is a big feat. Have patience it will run someday :wink:
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

Pratyush wrote: They have developed domestic 5g network. The fabrication will have to be done by overseas partners. But the technology is Indian.

As a matter of fact Airtel has also developed this technology. But they are may be 9 to 12 months behind reliance. In terms of execution.

That is why the article is saying what it is.

Tech is important. Fabrication can follow in due course of time.
Haan ji, I am hearing this for some time now. Reliance will develop 5G, Reliance will develop smartphone, etc.
But if you look at the fine print, Reliance is basically making deals with companies like Sony Ericsson for telecom equipment and LG for phone making, and providing them services and installation. That is classic baniyagiri, not indigenization.

Fact is as far as I know Reliance has not developed a single switch, router, load balancer, communication antenna , RF transceivers or any piece of telecom equipment. Expecting them to suddenly develop 5G is about as believable as Pakistan claiming it has sent astronauts to Jupiter.

I think many people want to believe Reliance to be our equivalent of Huawei or Apple or whatever and forget that its just a services company like Infosys. Mukesh Ambani has openly said he is a baniya and doesn't believe in R&D so what do you expect.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by chola »

Dexter wrote:The industry has painted itself into a corner by focusing on single-digit nanometer,” Caulfield said in an online press conference Tuesday, referring to the current obsession with smaller, more advanced manufacturing geometries. “Today we have cars sitting in a parking lot missing chips made on 45 or 65 nanometer.”

https://m.economictimes.com/small-biz/t ... 769118.cms

Can India see a market in this legacy technology where 45nm Silicon is the requirement
India needs to be in the silicon chip business. Without some capacity we will always be dependent on outsiders for one of the commanding heights industries of the 21st century.

Think of the issues affecting us from the lack of domestic aero engines but a thousand times worse because the chip is a 1000 times more important for our technological and economic independence.

The mature processes like the 45nm is really the only place where India can credibly make an initial foray. Even the US and Cheen are not in the leading edge single-digit nm game. In fact, most of that capacity is concentrated in a single Taiwanese company TMSC and the remainder in Samsung.

Not everything needs to be a 7nm super chip. Intel is still a massive and still dominant PC player with its 14nm. But phones and personal computers aside, the vast majority of uses for chips -- from autos to home appliances to even military and space equipment -- are in 28nm and up.

India has to create some ability to make chips. The global technology scene is fracturing over the vulnerability of chips being concentrated in a few places. The US, Cheen, EU and Japan are all pouring resources into creating domestic chip capacity. With AI, Internet of Things and 5G/6G coming, chips are in everything. India has to be in the game or it'll be dependent on others.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by chola »

sum wrote:Hats off to the Chinese for setting up a goal and marching towards it despite any urdle and ridicule of others around them.

Really wish we emulate the mindset behind this :
Huawei’s HiSilicon moving into advanced 5G app chips
Unkil's technology war can break Cheen or drive it to greater heights. Huawei could collapse without US associated chips and software or they could come up with their own. Because of the huge home market, Huawei has a better than equal chance of surviving and then expanding again once their supply chains are reworked.

I fear the Amreeka-Cheen rivalry will drive a lot of new capability and capacity for China. Just look at the chini space program in the last few months -- lunar dirt retrieval, Mars rover and space station -- all driven by a need to match Unkil. In fact, the space station and their Beidou gps equivalent were direct results of their US-pushed ban from ISS and Gallileo.

We should take up this challenge too if we truly see ourselves as Cheen's rival. It will drive us forward.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by V_Raman »

Getting chip manufacturing in india is not easy. the skilled labor required is just not there. nor the education system to generate such workers. at this stage - i think it is impossible for india to enter the chip market in a meaningful way including 45nm. there is more chances of it moving to USA than anywhere else. they have the education system to support it. more indians will come to USA for those masters degrees and work in those companies.
Last edited by V_Raman on 30 Jun 2021 11:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by sum »

The mature processes like the 45nm is really the only place where India can credibly make an initial foray. Even the US and Cheen are not in the leading edge single-digit nm game. In fact, most of that capacity is concentrated in a single Taiwanese company TMSC and the remainder in Samsung.
The word "mature node" might apply for nations have a semicon base but getting to 45nm for a nation like India with ~0 base in any semicon manufacturing ( except some super legacy fabs in ISRO?DRDO etc which are not geared towards this application anyway) is anything but a done deal

I would expect the same story as jet engines/Kaveri where we will keep hearing about how we can get it done and it isn't insurmountable but will finally have 0 to show after even 2-3 decades of being shown dreams
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by chola »

sum wrote:
The mature processes like the 45nm is really the only place where India can credibly make an initial foray. Even the US and Cheen are not in the leading edge single-digit nm game. In fact, most of that capacity is concentrated in a single Taiwanese company TMSC and the remainder in Samsung.
The word "mature node" might apply for nations have a semicon base but getting to 45nm for a nation like India with ~0 base in any semicon manufacturing ( except some super legacy fabs in ISRO?DRDO etc which are not geared towards this application anyway) is anything but a done deal

I would expect the same story as jet engines/Kaveri where we will keep hearing about how we can get it done and it isn't insurmountable but will finally have 0 to show after even 2-3 decades of being shown dreams
It will always be impossible unless we take that first step. Whatever the state of the Kaveri, it is there and it has potential and irregardless of whether Kaveri itself realizes that potential, we've created a process for developing engines that will definitely help the next project.

So even if we fail at a first attempt at a chip foundry, it will gain us experience for the next. Truthfully, I can't even imagine where we'll be without some sort of capacity when all the major powers are securing their own secure chips supply. The age of AI and automation is coming fast and furious.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by chola »

I don't think we understand just how perilous a position we are in without some sort of chip capacity. Access to chips is like oil to any industrialized economy. Without it, you will inevitably lose to rivals who do.

https://amp.scmp.com/business/companies ... p-shortage
Chinese carmakers see overseas sales double as global chip shortage hits US, European rivals harder

* Mainland China’s vehicle manufacturers exported 760,000 units between January and May, up 103 per cent from a year ago

* Their performance was buoyed by a strong recovery in production after the Covid-19 pandemic was largely contained


Daniel Ren
Published: 6:30pm, 30 Jun, 2021

Chinese carmakers became beneficiaries of a global shortage of semiconductors, with their outbound shipments more than doubling as American and European rivals fell behind. Mainland vehicle manufacturers exported 760,000 units between January and May, up 103 per cent from a year ago.

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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vijayk »

https://swarajyamag.com/technology/expl ... p-shortage
Explained: Tata Group Is Entering Semiconductor Manufacturing Market Amid Global Chip Shortage
Indian multinational conglomerate Tata Group appears to be on the verge of entering the semiconductor manufacturing market — especially at a time when the Covid-19 pandemic caused a global scarcity of chips and semiconductors.

This decision by the Mumbai-based company will not only allow it to capitalise on a massive opportunity but will also result in shorter wait times for Tata Motors vehicles in the long run.

While speaking at the annual general meeting of the IMC Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Tata Sons Chairman N Chandrasekaran said that in a post-pandemic future, global supply chains, which are currently heavily reliant on China, would undergo significant changes, with firms shifting their dependency to other countries.

He said: “At the Tata Group, we have already pivoted into a number of new businesses like electronics manufacturing, 5G network equipment as well as semiconductors, in all probability.”

“On rebalancing supply chains, India can benefit from global shifts. The Tata Group has already set up a business to seize the promise of high-tech manufacturing for electronics. A domestic electronics industry could unlock $1 trillion in GDP and create millions of jobs,” he further added.

While a venture into the chip manufacturing industry would mean entering a lucrative business with consumers not only in India but throughout the world, it would also be important for captive use with Tata Motors, Tata Power and other Tata companies.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

Vaccine manufacturing has really picked up. It seems that we can indeed bring manufacturing units online if we really want to.
All the rona-dhona about land ,labour and infrastructure problems doesn't seem to have mattered. So obviously these are solvable problems.
As I have said before the main problem is the lack of knowledge in manufacturing technology. So until R&D really picks up in a big way, we will still be dependent on imported machines.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Pratyush »

^^^ not quite true. The vaccines are being produced after repurposing existing field facilities.

So land acquisition or supply of trained labour is not an issue.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Ambar »

The retrospective tax is a completely self inflicted wound. We gained nothing from this debacle and lost some sheen as a attractive destination for foreign investment.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 10118.html
UK-based Cairn Energy PLC on Tuesday said it will drop litigations to seize Indian properties in countries ranging from France to the US, within a couple of days of getting a $1 billion refund resulting from the scrapping of a retrospective tax law.

The firm, which gave India its biggest on-land oil discovery, termed "bold" the legislation passed last month to cancel a 2012 policy that gave the tax department power to go back 50 years and slap capital gains levies wherever ownership had changed hands overseas but business assets were in India.The offer to return money seized to enforce retrospective tax demand in lieu of dropping all litigations against the government "is acceptable to us," Cairn CEO Simon Thomson told PTI in an interview from London.

Cairn will drop cases to seize diplomatic apartments in Paris and Air India airplanes in the US in "a matter of a couple of days" after the refund, he said adding Cairn's shareholders are in agreement with accepting the offer and moving on.

"Some of our core shareholders likes BlackRock and Franklin Templeton agree (to this). Our view is supported by our core shareholders (that) on balance it is better to accept and move on and be pragmatic. Rather than continue with something negative for all parties which could last for many years," he said.

Seeking to repair India's damaged reputation as an investment destination, the government last month enacted new legislation to drop ₹1.1 lakh crore in outstanding claims against multinationals such as telecoms group Vodafone, pharmaceuticals company Sanofi and brewer SABMiller, now owned by AB InBev, and Cairn.

About ₹8,100 crore collected from companies under the scrapped tax provision are to be refunded if the firms agreed to drop outstanding litigation, including claims for interest and penalties. Of this, ₹7,900 crore is due only to Cairn.

"Once we get to final resolution, part of that resolution is us dropping everything in terms of litigation. We can do that within a very short period of time, just a matter of a couple of days or something," Thomson said. "So we are preparing on the basis of getting this resolution quickly, all these cases being dropped, and putting all this behind."
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Suraj »

That may all be true, but I have a very specific question here - how precisely was the ability to perform international arbitration a part of the settlement process ? Please avoid uninformed political handwaving about the prior administration. Such idle speculative posts will be deleted as they do not address the question.

Are such clauses standard ? If not, was it only a part of this particular deal or are they present in other foreign investment agreements ? How does India ensure that any such dispute terminates within the Indian judicial system and not ever any foreign kangaroo court passing out edicts to confiscate whatever they deem to be 'organs of the state' ?

The bottomline is that the Indian state must not countenance such actions. Others may be forced to accept such terms as part of foreign investment agreements, but we aren't so weak as to need to do so anymore .
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Ambar »

That's my fear as well. India is/was in arbitration with several pvt corporations, what stops them from approaching courts outside India to appropriate properties of Indian government abroad now that a precedence has been set ? Recently BR Shetty of the now collapsed NMC Health of Abu Dhabi approached a court in New York and slapped a $ 8 billion suit against Bank of Baroda. Ironically, the injured party here is Bank of Baroda and Indian taxpayers who are left holding the bag with hundreds of millions of dollars in defaulted loans it lent NMC Health ! What happens if he wins ? It is dangerous for foreign courts to give judgements on matters well outside of their jurisdiction and even more dangerous to seize assets of a sovereign foreign state and hand it over to a private corporation as part of settlement.

How on earth did we allow Cairn corporation to threaten us with seizing Air India planes, diplomatic properties in EU/US is beyond me. If they had succeeded i hope we had plans to seize some British Airways planes and their properties here. All said and done whoever thought that retroactive taxation on corporations is a good idea must lose their pensions !
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vera_k »

WRT Cairn, the investment was subject to the India-UK investment treaty. Article 9 covers the dispute resolution process. IIRC, most if not all such treaties were terminated by India in 2017.

For Cairn specifically, GoI tried to pull a fast one like they are sometimes used to doing. However, given that the investment was subject to the UK-India investment treaty, arbitration was allowed. Now if you've ever had to deal with international courts, you'll know that most and sometimes all of the judges on these courts trained and practiced in the UK.

India-UK BIT

Status of BITs -

BITs
India overhauls investment treaty regime
India has served notices to 57 countries including the UK, Germany, France and Sweden seeking termination of bilateral investment treaties (BITs) whose initial duration has either expired or will expire soon.

For the remaining 25 countries with similar treaties whose initial duration will expire from July 2017 onwards, such as China, Finland, Bangladesh and Mexico, India has asked for joint statements to clarify ambiguities in treaty texts, to avoid expansive interpretations by arbitration tribunals.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vayutuvan »

V_Raman wrote:Getting chip manufacturing in india is not easy. the skilled labor required is just not there. nor the education system to generate such workers. at this stage - i think it is impossible for india to enter the chip market in a meaningful way including 45nm. there is more chances of it moving to USA than anywhere else. they have the education system to support it. more indians will come to USA for those masters degrees and work in those companies.
Yes. The education system is part of the ecosystem. Ecosystem exists in Si valley. It had been hard for dreams of Si Prairie centered around Urbana or Si xxxx in Austin. While Urbana couldn't make major headway, Austin had. Even then, Austin is still a fraction of what Si valley does. Designing and ECAD tools are the bread and butter. While fabs are very high-tech and all that, they are in the end, are nothing but optimized processes based on the research that goes on in the colleges of engg.

While India also has a lot of design houses, the number is nowhere near what exists in the US nor all are independent. Most of them are Indian subsidiaries of US design houses.
V_Raman
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by V_Raman »

Another school which feeds this industry is PSU - Portland State University - has dedicated curriculum that feeds the Portland area cluster including Intel fabs, cadence systems, Annapurna (amazon) labs etc. many indians come to PSU for this and get into these roles.

Some Indian school(s) have to step up here with the curriculum.
mappunni
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by mappunni »

Vayutuvan wrote:
V_Raman wrote:Getting chip manufacturing in india is not easy. the skilled labor required is just not there. nor the education system to generate such workers. at this stage - i think it is impossible for india to enter the chip market in a meaningful way including 45nm. there is more chances of it moving to USA than anywhere else. they have the education system to support it. more indians will come to USA for those masters degrees and work in those companies.
Yes. The education system is part of the ecosystem. Ecosystem exists in Si valley. It had been hard for dreams of Si Prairie centered around Urbana or Si xxxx in Austin. While Urbana couldn't make major headway, Austin had. Even then, Austin is still a fraction of what Si valley does. Designing and ECAD tools are the bread and butter. While fabs are very high-tech and all that, they are in the end, are nothing but optimized processes based on the research that goes on in the colleges of engg.

While India also has a lot of design houses, the number is nowhere near what exists in the US nor all are independent. Most of them are Indian subsidiaries of US design houses.
Saar, Samsung has almost decided to go with either Austin or Taylor TX for its next $17 billion fab facility

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/ ... b-2021-09/
Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vayutuvan »

mappunni ji, that is interesting, to say the least. 17 billion is a decent quantum of investment into a fab or two. So SoKo is coming through for Biden. not bad, not bad at all.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 10 Sep 2021 05:04, edited 1 time in total.
vijayk
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vijayk »

https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/made ... n-corridor
'Made In India' Giant Equipment Launched To Build Mumbai - Ahmedabad Bullet Train Corridor

Image
Building With 'Made In India' Equipment

The full span launching equipment of 1,100MT capacity is indigenously designed and manufactured by M/s Larsen &Toubro at Kanchipuram, Chennai.

M/s L&T has partnered with 55 Micro-Small Medium Enterprises (MSME) to build it. India is now coming in the select group of countries like Italy, Norway, Korea, and China to design and manufacture such equipment.

This development will expedite the high-speed railway construction, as it is a proven technology in metro and similar projects.

For constructing 508 km long viaduct superstructures of Mumbai-Ahmedabad High-Speed Rail Project (MAHSR), State-of-the-Art construction methodologies like Full Span Launching Methodology (FSLM) will be adopted.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Haresh »

India Insight: Elbows out on world’s factory floor

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/i ... 021-09-06/
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Mort Walker »

Ford is getting out of India after losing over $2 billion USD over the last 10 years. This is not a good sign for India attracting manufacturing industries.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 255041002/
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Zynda »

Mort Walker wrote:Ford is getting out of India after losing over $2 billion USD over the last 10 years. This is not a good sign for India attracting manufacturing industries.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 255041002/
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6996&p=2513881#p2513881
Dexter
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Dexter »

Tower Semiconductor, tech partner of Next Orbit Ventures writes to PMO for clarity on Semiconductor Plant plans and is upset. GOI should probably close whatever it plans there on priority
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/co ... 049192.cms
Vips
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

Zynda wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Ford is getting out of India after losing over $2 billion USD over the last 10 years. This is not a good sign for India attracting manufacturing industries.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 255041002/
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6996&p=2513881#p2513881
This is natural. Companies which do not have quality products and are not able to compete will fall by the way side. It is tough for any manufacturer to compete against the Japanese and Koreans.

Even otherwise as far as car manufacturing is concerned it was and is a circus in India with more then 15 Manufacturers vying for market of less then 5 million cars.

In mature markets the world over it is always 3-5 companies which are viable and remain in the long run.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Ambar »

Precisely. It is a over saturated market and we wont see a significant increase in overall volumes from here onwards because pretty much everyone who wants a car has a car already. This is also the reason why in developed countries like US, Japan, Germany, UK etc. annual auto sales have remained flat for decades now. The time to enter Indian market was between mid-90s to mid-00s, even then many who did were unable to succeed ( Daewoo, Chevrolet, Opel, Fiat, Peugeot, Datsun, Mitsubishi and now Ford). I struggle to understand how is Honda, VW, Skoda, Jeep etc still operating factories given their abysmal sales figures for years now.

Overall, Ford leaving India has zero consequences for our manufacturing or jobs. They have state of the art factory which will be bought over by some other company. And whatever little sales Ford had will be subsumed by other brands. Our incompetent partisan media is just making this news a big deal for obvious reasons.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by sanjaykumar »

That’s not quite true. The US had a couple of dozen car companies. Some became defunct. Some amalgamated into General Motors.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Kamal_raj »

Indian designed warehousing robots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2wlKmHddxo
Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vayutuvan »

sanjaykumar wrote:That’s not quite true. The US had a couple of dozen car companies. Some became defunct. Some amalgamated into General Motors.
Old history.
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