Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

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SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 05 May 2022 04:58

chetak saab.....how did you manage to know the g forces during the turbulence :D , something that would be known only to the sensors on the plane, and those who interrogated them :D. I googled and did not get a quick hit....but then my google search skills are not that great.

On a different note, I could not fathom why the oxygen masks would deploy. These are programmed to drop when the cabin pressure is below a certain value (of above 8000 ft air pressure, as I recall). The plane was landing and Durgapur altitude is only around 250 ft above seat level. So I doubt it was above 8000 ft though there is no report of the altitude of the craft when the masks droppped. If the craft was actually above 8000 ft (or whatever the magic number is) and the mask deployment was not due to a malfunction, that would impy the fuselage was structurally compromised somewhere.

As an aside, I've read too many news items about passengers hitting the roof (literally, not figuratively) due to unexpected turbulence....I keep my belt fastened all the time.

Truly un-related note...but there is no news from the China aircrash a month ago. The FDR and CVR were recovered within a couple of days of the crash. No word on whether the data was recovered, and what was found on it. I am guessing the Chinese investigators and the Boeing investigators are in a tussle to determine the source of fault.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 May 2022 06:05

SriKumar wrote:chetak saab.....how did you manage to know the g forces during the turbulence :D , something that would be known only to the sensors on the plane, and those who interrogated them :D. I googled and did not get a quick hit....but then my google search skills are not that great.



SriKumar ji,

where there is a will, there is always a way.

and SriKumar ji, just because you didn't find something doesn't mean that it's cooked up

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spicejet-aircraft-was-on-autopilot-mode-during-turbulence-dgca-11651504835965.html


In its preliminary probe report into the SpiceJet accident, DGCA revealed flight was on "autopilot mode" when it faced turbulence. SpiceJet flight SG-945 from Mumbai to Durgapur on Sunday encountered severe turbulence during descent which unfortunately resulted in injuries to 14 passengers. The aviation watchdog Director-General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) started a probe into the matter on Monday

The DGCA report said, "During this period, the autopilot got disengaged for two minutes and the crew manually flew the aircraft. Aircraft reported to Durgapur ATC that few passengers were injured due to turbulence and requested medical assistance after landing."

Further, the DGCA investigation highlighted it was a close shave for over 190 passengers on May 1 at Durgapur airport. "Spice jet B737-800 aircraft VT-SLH operating flight SG-945 (Mumbai-Durgapur) encountered severe turbulence during descent. There was a total of 195 persons on board the aircraft including 02 pilots and 04 cabin crew members. The aircraft took off from Mumbai at approx. 1713 IST. During descent, the aircraft experienced severe turbulence and the vertical load factor varied from 2.64G and -1.36G," DGCA's initial probe report stated.

Meanwhile, the aviation regulator has off-rostered the involved crew, the aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) and in charge of the maintenance control center of spice-jet.


DGCA officials met the injured passengers and recorded their statements. Later, speaking about it, they said, “There were injuries to fourteen passengers and three cabin crew. The injuries were related to head, spine, shoulder, forehead and facial injuries. At present three passengers are hospitalized. Two of the passengers are in ICU at Durgapur."



and many many other places too, on the web

I even have the names of the crew and the aircraft tail number, but that info I am not going to put out on an open forum


BTW,

Modern passenger airplanes have two or more units called AHRS (Attitude Heading Reference System.)

The AHRS provides attitude and heading information to the flight instruments.

Inside the AHRS are there three gyros and three accelerometers.

After landing can the pilots read maximum up/down forces that acted on the aircraft in flight and during landing.



Image

Jay
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Jay » 05 May 2022 06:28

SriKumar wrote:On a different note, I could not fathom why the oxygen masks would deploy. These are programmed to drop when the cabin pressure is below a certain value (of above 8000 ft air pressure, as I recall).


No exactly accurate as masks get deployed during other situations too and I have experienced it personally during a flight which encountered minor turbulence around 12000 feet. No loss of pressure happened and according to the flight attendant, a certain amount turbulent motion will trigger them and also additional oxygen helps some passengers to stay calm.
Last edited by Jay on 05 May 2022 08:17, edited 1 time in total.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 May 2022 06:38

SriKumar wrote:chetak saab.....how did you manage to know the g forces during the turbulence :D , something that would be known only to the sensors on the plane, and those who interrogated them :D. I googled and did not get a quick hit....but then my google search skills are not that great.


SriKumar ji

for those not so computer savvy

these are also additionally fitted in many modern commercial cockpits, and makes for a simpler and a far more more basic readout


Image

SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 05 May 2022 07:10

First.....no ji for me, please. I like the plain 'no-ranks/no heirarchy' feel of an anonymous forum. Second, there was no implication, explicit or implicit, that it was cooked up. I was surprised that such specific data was released in public. I thought you had 'your sources' in the right places :D

SriKumar
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 05 May 2022 07:12

Jay wrote:
SriKumar wrote:On a different note, I could not fathom why the oxygen masks would deploy. These are programmed to drop when the cabin pressure is below a certain value (of above 8000 ft air pressure, as I recall).


No exactly accurate as masks get deployed during other situations too and I have experienced it personally during a flight which encountered minor turbulence around 12000 feet. No loss of pressure happened and according to the flight attendant, a certain amount turbulent motion will trigger them as additional oxygen helps some passengers to stay calm.
This is interesting. Oxygen masks dropping could be a cause for alarm for other passengers. :D

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 May 2022 07:17

SriKumar wrote:First.....no ji for me, please. I like the plain 'no-ranks/no heirarchy' feel of an anonymous forum. Second, there was no implication, explicit or implicit, that it was cooked up. I was surprised that such specific data was released in public. I thought you had 'your sources' in the right places :D


SriKumar ji

In my misspent youth, among many other things, worked for two airlines.

numerous chaddi dosts fly for many others, here and abroad.

too many smileys in a post sends out a very different vibe so no real need for implication, explicit or implicit

like google is a friend to many, one has WA as a good friend too and my inputs came much before they were published

had one posted earlier, one risked being kicked out of some useful WA groups.

srin
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby srin » 05 May 2022 07:47

chetak wrote:
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spicejet-aircraft-was-on-autopilot-mode-during-turbulence-dgca-11651504835965.html

In its preliminary probe report into the SpiceJet accident, DGCA revealed flight was on "autopilot mode" when it faced turbulence. SpiceJet flight SG-945 from Mumbai to Durgapur on Sunday encountered severe turbulence during descent which unfortunately resulted in injuries to 14 passengers. The aviation watchdog Director-General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) started a probe into the matter on Monday

The DGCA report said, "During this period, the autopilot got disengaged for two minutes and the crew manually flew the aircraft. Aircraft reported to Durgapur ATC that few passengers were injured due to turbulence and requested medical assistance after landing."

Further, the DGCA investigation highlighted it was a close shave for over 190 passengers on May 1 at Durgapur airport. "Spice jet B737-800 aircraft VT-SLH operating flight SG-945 (Mumbai-Durgapur) encountered severe turbulence during descent. There was a total of 195 persons on board the aircraft including 02 pilots and 04 cabin crew members. The aircraft took off from Mumbai at approx. 1713 IST. During descent, the aircraft experienced severe turbulence and the vertical load factor varied from 2.64G and -1.36G," DGCA's initial probe report stated.

Meanwhile, the aviation regulator has off-rostered the involved crew, the aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) and in charge of the maintenance control center of spice-jet.

DGCA officials met the injured passengers and recorded their statements. Later, speaking about it, they said, “There were injuries to fourteen passengers and three cabin crew. The injuries were related to head, spine, shoulder, forehead and facial injuries. At present three passengers are hospitalized. Two of the passengers are in ICU at Durgapur."



Nothing in the article indicates that the crew did something wrong, so why were they de-rostered ? What were they supposed to do instead ?

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 May 2022 07:58

srin wrote:


Nothing in the article indicates that the crew did something wrong, so why were they de-rostered ? What were they supposed to do instead ?


DGCA doesn't agree with the decision to ferry the aircraft.

they have always suffered from a pronounced "not invented here" syndrome

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Jay » 05 May 2022 08:13

SriKumar wrote: This is interesting. Oxygen masks dropping could be a cause for alarm for other passengers. :D


Yes it is, but it also helps calm passengers who were anxious and hyperventilating out of fear.

chetak
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby chetak » 05 May 2022 08:52

Jay wrote:
SriKumar wrote: This is interesting. Oxygen masks dropping could be a cause for alarm for other passengers. :D


Yes it is, but it also helps calm passengers who were anxious and hyperventilating out of fear.


Jay saab,

Wouldn't it be a tad difficult to pray loudly for deliverance, hyperventilate, and take deep oxygen filled breaths, all at the same time, and do all this while your entire life is flashing before your eyes and your hugely overweight but not seat belted neighbour is being repeatedly bounced off the ceiling.

The real threat to life would be from being quashed to death by the bouncing avoirdupois neighbour

just a thought onlee...

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 05 May 2022 13:03

Delhi airport knocks out Dubai, becomes 2nd busiest airport in March: OAG report
A leading data travel provider Official Airline Guide (OAG), in its recent report, has said that Delhi's Indra Gandhi Airport (IGI) has emerged as the world's second busiest airport in March in terms of domestic and international flights. Whilst Atlanta retains its position as largest, Dubai is knocked out of second place this month (March) by Delhi airport—with a seating capacity of 3,611,181 seats—which moves up from third place last month (Feb), the OAG's report said. The civil aviation industry in India has gradually started showing signs of recovery in 2022 after remaining subdued for the last two years due to pandemic restrictions.

The Delhi airport handled about 31.61 million domestic passengers and 5.49 million international traffic in 2021. It emerged as the top-most among all Indian airports in terms of handling domestic as well as international passenger traffic in CY 2020 and CY 2021. In March this year, the airport handled 3.61 million seats, the OAG report said. The airport was on 23rd place in March 2019 before the pandemic, the report further added.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Vips » 07 May 2022 05:07

Airspace coordination in India helps airlines save big.

Coordination between defence and civilian authorities has freed up airspace for commercial airlines in India, resulting in routes becoming shorter and costs coming down, apart from mitigating pollution.

“Due to various restrictions of the military, only about 58 per cent of the Indian airspace was being utilised. It is close to 70 per cent now,” said an official of the Airports Authority of India (AAI).

Officials of the AAI said to date 119 routes had been shortened.

Sources said since December 2020 the cumulative savings of airlines had been close to Rs 200 crore while there was a reduction in emission of around 45,000 tonnes of carbon.

While the target has been short of the government’s expectations of savings of Rs 1,000 crore per year, this has been primarily because of reduction in the number of flights due to the pandemic.

Aviation turbine fuel accounts for 35-40 per cent of the operating costs of an airline. Due to high taxes, it’s around 40 per cent more expensive than in other countries. With global crude oil prices at over $100 per barrel, shorter routes pinch airlines’ pockets much less.

While the idea of a rational usage of airspace was proposed in 2014, airline executives said the military was apprehensive about the idea and much development didn’t take place until 2020.

That was when the opening up of the airspace available with the armed forces was among the Covid relief measures announced by Union Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman for the stressed aviation sector, which was awaiting a stimulus package.

India has set up a central air traffic flow management facility, where officials from Air Navigation Services, Indian Air Force, and Indian Army work together to allow direct routing whenever restricted air space is not in use.

“The Indian Air Force (IAF) has been reluctant to share civil and military space primarily because the IAF’s flying is very dynamic in nature. "It is intensive and requires a huge volume of airspace. So, while the military used to allow short direct routing through restricted airspace on and off, it was not mainstreamed.

"Now, unless that area is being used by the military it is always available and a permanent part of navigation charts for airlines,” said a flight dispatcher.

Flight dispatch is involved in planning flight paths, taking into account aircraft performance and loading and weather conditions.

For instance, in the Delhi-Srinagar sector, flight time has reduced by around 10 minutes after the IAF opened up much airspace in Punjab. This, for an Airbus A320neo, which is the most commonly used aircraft in India, implies a saving of almost 400 kg of fuel.

Or on routes to Chennai from east Indian airports like Kolkata, Durgapur, and Agartala, the route has been cut by almost 15 minutes because the IAF has allowed it to use the airspace near Sulur Air Force Station near Coimbatore, which was previously unavailable.

Sources said IndiGo, India’s largest airline, has saved around Rs 100 crore since December 2020 and has reduced carbon emissions of around 32,000 tonnes. Foreign airlines like Saudia, Etihad, and Qatar Airlines also have benefited from the direct routing.

Reduction in carbon emission is crucial for India because carbon offsetting norms for Indian airlines will kick in from 2027.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 21 Jun 2022 14:17

Air India considering buying 300 aircraft in one of the largest deals in history
Air India Ltd is considering ordering as many as 300 narrowbody jets, according to people familiar with the matter, in what could be one of the largest orders in commercial aviation history as the formerly state-run airline looks to overhaul its fleet under new ownership. The carrier may order Airbus SE’s A320neo family jets or Boeing Co’s 737 Max models, or a mix of both, the people said, asking not to be identified because the discussions are confidential. A deal for 300 737 Max-10 jets couldbe worth $40.5 billion at sticker prices, although discounts are common in such large purchases.

Winning a narrowbody order in India would be a coup for Boeing, as rival Airbus dominates the skies in the country, the world’s fastest-growing aviation market before the Covid pandemic. IndiGo, operated by InterGlobe Aviation Ltd, is the world’s largest customer for the European manufacturer’s best-selling narrowbodies, ordering more than 700, and others including Vistara, Go Airlines India Ltd and AirAsia India Ltd fly planes from the same family.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Prasad » 21 Jun 2022 15:11

300! GoI and TATA better pitch for local assembly for whatever they buy citing C-295 deal.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby arvin » 21 Jun 2022 21:51

Airbus backlog is somewhere close to 6000 planes.
Without local assembly it would be difficult for them to fulfill such a large order.
Doubt they may go for Jugaadu Max.
Maybe order a small quantity of MC 21 from Russia with payment in Ruppees\Roubles.

Mollick.R
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 07 Jul 2022 15:57

This is big & long awaited..........

Safran to set up its largest aircraft engine MRO in India

By Anirban Chowdhury, ET Bureau Last Updated: Jul 07, 2022, 01:04 PM IST

Safran Engineering, whose engines will power the largest number of Indian airliners in the next few years, is setting up its biggest maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in Hyderabad, its CEO said Thursday.
The facility, which will be able to handle up to 300 engine shop visits annually, will also be the biggest in India to be set up by a major global engine manufacturer. The French engine-maker will invest up to $200 million in the MRO facility, Olivier Andriès told reporters on the sidelines of an event.

Construction will start in 2023 and the company hopes to receive its first customer in 2025. Currently, Safran’s largest MRO facilities are in its headquarters in France and in Mexico.

CFM Engineering, a joint venture between Safran and Americian engineering giant GE, makes the CFM56, Leap-1A and Leap-1B that power most of the Airbus A320s and the Boeing 737s in India.

There are currently 600 CFM engines powering 330 passenger aircraft flown by six airlines in India, said Jean-Paul Alary, chief of Safran aircraft engines. That number will go up to 1,500 in the next few decades, making it the biggest engine orderbook from Indian carriers, including the soon-to-fly Akasa.
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“We have clearly explained to the central government in New Delhi that the tax regime was a problem. We couldn’t establish any MRO activity in India because in the previous tax regime, we were taxed twice. We told the government if you change this tax regime, then we will come. And that’s what happened,” said Andriès.

In March, the government reduced GST on domestic MRO services to 5% from 18%.

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Read Full Article From Here//
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/safran-to-set-up-its-largest-aircraft-engine-mro-in-india/articleshow/92719096.cms

saip
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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby saip » 06 Aug 2022 00:06

Few weeks ago I bought a direct (SFO to DEL) one way ticket by Air India. Next day I called their customer service and cancelled the ticket. The rep said I will receive full refund but I found later they deducted $250 dollars and refunded the balance. In these cases (when you cancel the tickets next day) most US airlines refund the full amount even if you are an hour or two late. Anyway, I filed a complaint with the DOT, USA . They sent my complaint to Air India and today I received the balance. Now a days AI is directing web booking to an Indian website dot IN. I could not use credit card to pay but had to use a link to pay from my Indian Bank. I hope the new owners Tatas will fix these issues.

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Re: Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Postby Cyrano » 08 Aug 2022 00:08

Bought AI tickets PAR-HYD-PAR from France using my Fr bank issued master card in May on AI intl website. No problems.

Also bought HYD-PAR-HYD from Hyd using the same intl card, on AI .in website in June for my mother. Again no problems.


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