India's Shipping Sector

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Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

I hope this finally forces IR & KL & TN to build the ChettiKulam to Ponmudi Tunnel connector. At the narrowest it s a mere 9 km's long.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by nachiket »

Sachin wrote:
Paul wrote:It was threatened to be moved to neighbouring TN if not moved upon soon.
Won't it be a better strategy to support both the ventures (Kolachel & Vizhinjam)??
Two ports so close by would mean they eat into each other's market and both go the Vallarpadam way.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

^^^
There is already a large well developed deep water port just 140 km away. Tuticorin.

Vizhinjam I believe is meant for transshipment only. Not exports. Another port like Colachel will be useful to this hub model. I don't see developing both as being bad.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

I'm personally agnostic on choice between Vizhinjam and Colachel. One of them can be used by the Navy for a base too.

But since Vallarpadam also exists as a transhipment terminal only 200km north, if Vizhinjam is going to be the next best thing for India in transhipment, what is Vallarpadam's future and the money sunk into it. Just be part of a regular port at Cochin ?

Then there is the outer harbour project in Cochin being drummed about, with a huge petrochemical complex on the Vypin side on the reclaimed land from the sea. This might fly as there is already a huge presence in Cochin of this sector.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

It costs Rs 10,000 pr container to tranship from Chennai to Vallarpaddam. This is too much.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

But Chennai to Vizhinjam would be the same costs too. Or is the plan that Cochin caters to Coimbatore-Bangalore-Hydbad belt and Vizhinjam anything south of it. But that leaves only Chennai as the local market for Vizhinjam.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

I'm thinking Vizhinjam would be west coast only and cheaper. Vizhinjam Tranship fees should be close to Chennai, roughly Rs 4,000 per container right now. Need fast fast turn around as well. 16 hours or less to compete with Columbo.
-----------------------------------------

BTW here is the size/transhipment time situation right now.

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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Sachin »

Bade wrote:Then there is the outer harbour project in Cochin being drummed about, with a huge petrochemical complex on the Vypin side on the reclaimed land from the sea. This might fly as there is already a huge presence in Cochin of this sector.
I don't know if the plan is to make Vallarpadam a port focusing on LPG and Petroleum related traffic. I remember reading that there was a big plan to have large facilities for storing of LPG etc. In fact right at this moment GAIL is doing a survey to lay underground pipes to transport LPG (with off course the usual obstructions also happening). It is said that unless GAIL manages to lay a pipe line between Mangalore and Vallarpadam,Cochin the full benefits of the port cannot be utilised. From what I read, Vallarpadam and Cochin port is considered to be under utilised. I have not read through all this in detail, so always ready to be corrected.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by geeth »

With vizhinjam we have to develop coastal shipping with 500-1000 TEU vessels in a massive way..and also the rail network. there are no industries in kerala and transportation by road will be costly. Even rail network at present is congested.
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India's Shipping Sector

Post by Peregrine »

Bade wrote:Then there is the outer harbour project in Cochin being drummed about, with a huge petrochemical complex on the Vypin side on the reclaimed land from the sea. This might fly as there is already a huge presence in Cochin of this sector.
Sachin wrote:I don't know if the plan is to make Vallarpadam a port focusing on LPG and Petroleum related traffic. I remember reading that there was a big plan to have large facilities for storing of LPG etc. In fact right at this moment GAIL is doing a survey to lay underground pipes to transport LPG (with off course the usual obstructions also happening). It is said that unless GAIL manages to lay a pipe line between Mangalore and Vallarpadam,Cochin the full benefits of the port cannot be utilised. From what I read, Vallarpadam and Cochin port is considered to be under utilised. I have not read through all this in detail, so always ready to be corrected.
Sachin Ji :

Why cant Mangalore have its own LNG Terminal?

Note : Vallaroadam Terminal is about Five KM from Cochin-Ernakulam.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

Mangalore could have one too and supply the Konkan coast as well the rest of the state. The operator in Kochi is same as the one in Gujarat is what I recall.

Here u go. AP is on their cards for the east coast as of now. I guess they have it covered between Dahej and Kochi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronet_LNG
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Kakkaji »

Ports around the world are often beset by labor union problems. How is an 'efficient by international standard' port going to function in Kerala, which is the hotbed of militant unions?

A port in Kerala beating Colombo is hard to imagine at this time for me. I wish Vizhinjam was in Tamil Nadu instead.

Confession: I have spent less than a month of my life in Kerala and Tamil Nadu combined.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

By automating as much as possible you can work around the so called trade unions.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Pratyush »

But will the unions allow you to automate.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

There is always a first for anything. Besides this is a greenfield project.

How is the Kochi refineries operating for the last two decades if labor-militancy was a major issue ? How is the tourism industry which is labor intensive operating in KL quite smoothly.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by SaiK »

move over to contractors/consultants and not employee as labor resources. this will help to reduce unions to trash bins. less of blue collar and more of white, not necessarily automation to remove blues, but keep them as separate legal entities to distribute the problem. this way, many private service companies gets business to operate as well.

people just don't want to work. they want chix for free, money for nothing. [and that 80-20 as well]
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

Isn't that what Kochi metro did. Work is progressing fast, perhaps fastest of all metros. Only slowdowns have been ones related to land acquisition. That is not a labor issue.

Take for example the housing sector in KL. It is growing at a blistering pace. Very labor intensive, still. When we built our house way back in the early 90s, everything thing was contracted out using subcontractors. Electrical works was given to one, plumbing to another, brickwork & plastering to another, the RCC roofing and foundations and stuctures to one. :-) It was complete in less than a year all 3000sqft with extensions. Just look at Kochi landscape from 20 yrs ago to now, the amount of high rises built with extensive manual labor.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Bade,

By world standards it is still painfully slow. My co-worker built a new house and it took him 5 months from excavations start to moving in furniture. I have been struggling on and off with my house in Kelambakkam now for 2 years. People are showing up and working hard but are just not focused on completing the job. I wish people would focus on finishing, getting paid and getting out of there.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

All the better trained labor is perhaps building high rises in KL ;-) where the pay is better. You will hardly find any local labor in KL to raise flags these days. Yes, some leader goon will show up. I am sure KMRL contractors must have stuffed him enough moolah to keep him quiet for the project's construction period. It is a cheaper solution to the problem and costs much less than paying off politicos to get things off the ground perhaps.

Theo, my cousin and uncle have built fairly large houses next to ours and it was done in much less time than it took for ours this year, yes in 6-8 months in all and house warming done for both.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by SaiK »

at least in KL, I can see a malloo pride to show off their clean-state discipline. but then, there are bad@$$ people who just don't care a $h!t.. jail them, and KB walas deny job oppty if jailed for 2 years min, to a max of 10 years. they will freaking fear to do the wrong things. tie it up to all things living - insurance, jobs, pay packet, automatic fine deduction from salary, etc
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Kakkaji »

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/govt-to-conduct-feasibility-study-for-rs-23-000-cr-india-sri-lanka-project-115071700840_1.html

In this story about the planned India-SriLanka road link, there is a little piece of news about the Colachel port also:
Gadkari announced that the work on the multi-crore Colachel International Transshipment terminal will begin soon. He also stated that the feasibility study on the project, which will provide a fillip to the economy of the state, has already been completed.

Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jayalalitha has assured that the state would extend full support to the project, he added.
So looks like both Colachel and Vizhinjam are going to be developed as International Transshipment Ports.

It seems Colachel will be built by the GOI, while Vizhinjam will be built in the private sector by Adani.

Can they support each other, or are they going to just steal from each other?

In Gujarat, both Kandla and Mundra are doing good business. Here in my area in the US, Savannah and Charleston are quite close to each other and compete, yet both survive.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

It is more like a trio if true for the south-west coast. Vallarpadam has about the same depth as Colachel. Someone must have thought this through to make such announcements. More the merrier.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Peregrine »

Kakkaji wrote:http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/govt-to-conduct-feasibility-study-for-rs-23-000-cr-india-sri-lanka-project-115071700840_1.html

In this story about the planned India-SriLanka road link, there is a little piece of news about the Colachel port also:
Gadkari announced that the work on the multi-crore Colachel International Transshipment terminal will begin soon. He also stated that the feasibility study on the project, which will provide a fillip to the economy of the state, has already been completed.

Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jayalalitha has assured that the state would extend full support to the project, he added.
So looks like both Colachel and Vizhinjam are going to be developed as International Transshipment Ports.

It seems Colachel will be built by the GOI, while Vizhinjam will be built in the private sector by Adani.

Can they support each other, or are they going to just steal from each other?

In Gujarat, both Kandla and Mundra are doing good business. Here in my area in the US, Savannah and Charleston are quite close to each other and compete, yet both survive.
kakkaji :

2014-2015 Containers Performance Figures from the Adani ports Website :

Kandla : NIL

Mundra 2.78 Million
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India's Shipping Sector

Post by Peregrine »

Vizhinjam port: Kerala government, Adanis to ink pact for Rs 7,500 crore project on August 17

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Taking a major step forward on the state's ambitious Rs 7,500 crore Vizhinjam deep sea port project, Kerala government and Adani Ports decided to sign the construction agreement on August 17.

The decision was taken at a meeting by Chief Minister Oommen Chandy with Adani Ports Officials, including the company's Executive Director Karan Adani here.

It was also decided to start the construction work on November 1, the state's formation day, Ports Minister K Babu told reporters after the meeting.

Karan Adani said that even though the construction period is four years as per the agreement, the company plans to complete the work in two years.

Babu said that the CM would write to Prime Minister Narendra Modi today, seeking exemption of cabotage law for the project as it is one of the issues raised by the Adani group.

They also sought completion of land acquisition of which 90 per cent is over, he said.

"Government assured them that the remaining land required would also be acquired," he added.

Vizhinjam International Seaport Private Ltd is the Special Purpose Vehicle of the state government formed to implement the project. The estimated cost of the project is Rs 7,500 crore which includes investments made by the Kerala government.

The port, a long pending project of the state, was first proposed in 1991, but did not materialise due to various reasons. It got a push after the present UDF government came to power in 2011.

In June this year, the Congress-led UDF government decided to award the project contract to the Adani group, overruling stiff political opposition.

The Opposition CPI(M)-led LDF had objected to it's implementation in the private sector and had levelled allegations of corruptions in the deal.

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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Paul »

This is Big...US will try to stall this by leaning on countries sellingLNG to refuse entry to these shis on some grounds. There were reports that US woul not allow Indian made LNG vellsels from berthing in US to offload US LNG

http://lng-projects.com/2015/07/19/make ... l-express/

Make In India: Korea agrees for tech transfer; LNG ships to be built locally | The Financial Express
Equipment & TechnologyJul 19, 2015 0 6
In what could give a boost to the Make in India campaign, the government could soon nominate three local firms — Cochin Shipyard, L&T Shipbuilding and Pipavav Defence & Offshore Engineering — to build liquefied natural gas (LNG) transportation vessels for state-run GAIL (India).

The move comes in the light of these three shipyards signing memorandums of understanding (MoUs) with Korean firms for technology-sharing. Earlier, the Korean shipyards had expressed reservations in transferring their state-of-the-art technologies to Indian firms, even as they were keen on the business opportunity offered by India’s planned LNG imports.

Sources said after the ministry of external affairs took up the matter with the Korean government, the latter has agreed to allow Korean shipbuilders to share technologies with Indian firms as joint venture partners. The MoUs pave the way for construction of LNG vessels, which are cost-intensive and sophisticated, in India for the first time.

“These three firms would be nominated to build three vessels each in India,” a source privy to the development told FE.

B C Tripathi, chairman and managing director of GAIL, however, declined to comment.

GAIL (India) has drawn up a plan to invest an estimated $7.57 billion for hiring a fleet of sophisticated LNG ships to ferry gas from the US to India for 20 years, starting 2017. The cost, excluding fuel, canal and port call charges, which, again to be borne by GAIL, is seen to be close to $30 million.

The PSU gas marketing firm had failed to attract any Japanese or Korean shipbuilders to build LNG vessels in India after floating global tenders. The government had insisted that GAIL should ensure that a third of the shipbuilding must be on the Indian soil. However, no Indian shipyard has ever built a vessel to transport LNG and foreign giants based in Korea and Japan turned down India’s request to form joint ventures that facilitate transfer of technology.

The delay in finalising the tender could land GAIL in a crisis of not having LNG vessels on time to import gas from the US. The tender was first launched with a cut off date of October 30, 2014, which was later extended thrice: To December 4, January 6 and, finally, to February 17. External affairs minister Sushma Swaraj and petroleum minister Dharmendra Pradhan made an aggressive diplomatic push with South Korea for the exchange of technology.

In December last year, during Swaraj’s maiden trip to Seoul, she discussed with Korean minister of trade, industry and energy Yoon Sang-jick about co-production of LNG ships here, as part of the ‘Make in India’ programme.

Reports also said Swaraj offered that India would purchase giant LNG tankers from Korea outright, given its growing energy needs.

Four Korean shipyards qualified to participate in GAIL’s tender namely Samsung Heavy Industries, Daewoo Ship Building and Marine Engineering; Hyundai Heavy Industries and STX Offshore & Shipbuilding.

Tech tonic:

* Cochin Shipyard, L&T, Pipavav Defence to make LNG carriers locally
* Korean firms, as JV partners, to supply tech
* GAIL to use locally-built carriers to import US gas
* Samsung, Daewoo, Hyundai, STX Offshore qualify in GAIL’s tender
* Local production result of India-Korea diplomacy

First Published on July 20, 2015 12:28 am
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Picklu »

Paul wrote:This is Big...US will try to stall this by leaning on countries sellingLNG to refuse entry to these shis on some grounds. There were reports that US woul not allow Indian made LNG vellsels from berthing in US to offload US LNG
On what pretext ?
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Paul »

A non objection certificate is required before an Indian LNG carrier can berth at a US port to carry Gas.

For any reason, say environmental risk or lack of ISO cert at the India yeard where the carrier was made it can be denied.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by chetak »

Paul wrote:A non objection certificate is required before an Indian LNG carrier can berth at a US port to carry Gas.

For any reason, say environmental risk or lack of ISO cert at the India yeard where the carrier was made it can be denied.
I don't think that any LNG carriers are made in India or many shipyards in India have a ISO certificate.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by A_Gupta »

Four recommendations for the development of India's ports:
http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/ind ... -of-ports/
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by hnair »

Mr Adani was in town here in Trivandrum, for the Vizhinjam Project signing, which is coming to the south of the city....... exciting

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Hopefully, we can ease off on Jebel Ali, Hamabanthotta, Tanjung Pelepas, Jurong et al

A wet towel for jingo - the Navy's 500 meter quay that Shree AKAnthony has approved, is not there in the new deal. Probably will be there in Phase II
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by arshyam »

Apologies if posted earlier, just came across this video and wanted to share. Did not realize the scale at which this port has been built at, and having deep waters, can berth VLCCs and similar Cape sized ships. Also a hint for how Vizhinjam might end up like, perhaps.

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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Vipul »

Gautam Adani has set a time line of 1000 days for making the port operational against 4 years given by the contracting companies. Lets see if he pulls a Reliance on this one.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Bade »

Why the trans-shipment terminal at Vallarpadam is a non-starter
Still, the trans-shipment procedures finalized by India for the Vallarpadam facility has not been accepted by the customs department at other Indian ports with the result that India’s exporters and importers continue to prefer Colombo over Vallarpadam.

Colombo is always way ahead of Vallarpadam in terms of capacity, pricing and productivity. ICTT does not have flexibility in rates unlike Colombo. To give competitive rates in vessel-related charges to attract big container ships, the Cochin Port Trust and the government took their own time by when Colombo further established its credentials as a trans-shipment hub.

Similarly, whenever Cochin port dropped its vessel-related charges to make it competitive with Colombo, the latter undercut Cochin by reducing its rates further. In such a situation, attracting mainline vessels of foreign shipping lines becomes all the more difficult.
What will the new terminals for transhipment at Vizhinjam/Colachel do better I wonder.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

I don't understand why government regulates the rates to be charged. It should be up to the port itself to decide that. This is deregulation that India needs sorely....
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Javee »

For Vizhinjam to succeed the entire EU/US bound traffic from the southern states should be routed through it. I don't know how feasible it is to send the feeders from Chennai, but from Tuthukudi it is possible. But need to see how GA sahib will make it a success when DP world couldn't make it work at Cochise ICTT. Just to compare Colombo did about 2 million TEU's while Cochin ICTT did about 27k TEU's. This shows both the potential and challenges for any SI transhipment port.

For all the manufacturing muscle Chennai and the surrounding areas have, we still have one mother vessel calling in at CPT.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by hnair »

The number of paid articles by CPT, DPW etc equals the number of paid articles by Mr A's people.

- "Transshipment" does not need hinterland cargo. The idea is to have a logistics hub (for lack of a better word) to offload 18,000 TEU and beyond vessels on India's shores, onto smaller feeder vessels and rails. Vizhinjam and Colachel are the closest to the trunk shipping route for that purpose. And also with depth that does not need huge opex dredging. In essence, Vizhinjam and Colachel will be like one of those largish railheads and junctions that one sees in farflung places of India(without large passenger base), but for containers

- Huge transshipment can happen in places without even a shore. Eg: the Zaragoza one and of course the very famous Fedex one at Memphis
- The Zaragoza one was something straight out of MIT's research and IIRC, was a spinoff from khan military logistic sciences.
- Between Colachel to Vizhinjam has some 30 odd kms of seashore, of which only select parts have the "seasonal swirling" that causes silt-free dropoff of the continental shelf (once again, oversimplification of terms)
- Mr A's group has plans for a largish SEZ (and it is largish as per current reports) over in Kanyakumari district. So hinterland cargo is a future prospect.
- Now for the fun bit: Mr A has an open blood-feud with DPW, based on inputs from grapevine and now has a PMO who wants a muscular economic diplomacy going :D Exciting
- **Probably** Colombo was given a headstart by the earlier NSA, since LTTE endgames were going on and Colombo desperately needed some economic boost. He and the Grand Chettiar seem to have rejected Mr A's earlier successful bid during UPA times, maybe on this premise. Vizhinjam timeline suffered terribly amids these geopolitics. Colombo's grace period is over.
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by vina »

All this Kochi port business is laughable and Vizhingam even more so. For one. For Kochi, the major industrial hinterland is Coimbatore which is less than 150Kms away and Bangalore and Chennai are the catchment areas.

1. The logistics to send from Bangalore , Chennai and Coimbatore and industrial clusters like Salem, Namakkal, Karuruetc to Kochi are a nightmare.
2. The rail capacity is frankly inadequate. The lines are choked to the brim will passenger trains carrying all the Mallus back and from Kerala on subsidised rates because the Kerala Baboons and Mantris couldn't build roads both within Kerala and also connections to the major trunk routes into TN.
3. The Coimbatore to Palakkad /Walayar to Kochi port is an absolute nightmare with trucks backed up at the check post (WTF does Kerala have checkpoints at all I wonder) narrow 2 lane roads, unfinished four lane on the Kerala side, don't give a damn 2 lane by pass for Coimbatore in the TN side to major 4 lane and insane traffic on the Kerala side with riding on the wrong side of traffic being the norm.

You can do all the signing wining and everything and build a port. But lets face it without fixing the logistics and getting the GST in place which will remove this checkpost business, Coimbatore ,Tirupur, Salem, Namakkal probably are still going to be using wholly inadequate chennai port or even Tuticorin, while the best natural port in India south of Vizag will get shafted by commie trade unionism and checkpost businesses and piss poor connectivity. And this is for Kochi.

Now how in blazes are they going to move any cargo at all from the ultra congested Palakkad gap in the ghats all the way down the Kerala coast to the tip, all the way south to Vizhingam. The Kochi -Trivandrum highway in any case is such a god awful mess, with something like Kumarakom-Kochi taking 3 hours and they want container trucks on this ?

Vizhingam is still born as the current state is. The absolutely ONLY way out is to avoid the Coimbatore-Palakkad-Down the length of Kerala business altogether and use the road and rail infra on the TN side fully and go down the NH-7 to Madurai and then get to TVM/ Vizingham via Tenkasi -Shenkottah/Punalur/Aryankavur/Kollam side where the rail line has been made BG I hope (when I last rode it some 30 years ago, it was a very scenic MG line) . You absolutely need a smooth I5 over the mountains into LA kind of upgrade for the Shenkottah-Kollam via Punalur thing for road traffic. That is the only way that this Vizhingam business can be made viable.

Oh and Ommen Chandy better tell Mrs Gandhi to stop being a dog in the manger and pass the GST in the Rajya Sabha double quick. As a huge consuming state, Kerala stands to gain massively with this GST business and if it aims to be a trans shipment hub, it simply cannot be so without it.
Last edited by vina on 04 Oct 2015 11:53, edited 2 times in total.
Theo_Fidel

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Javee wrote:For all the manufacturing muscle Chennai and the surrounding areas have, we still have one mother vessel calling in at CPT.
this was discontinued recently. there is no direct service any more to chennai.. columbo or singapore transship is required. or somewhere in gulf...
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Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by hnair »

vina wrote: Vizhingam is still born as the current state is. The absolutely ONLY way out is to avoid the Coimbatore-Palakkad-Down the length of Kerala business altogether and use the road and rail infra on the TN side fully and go down the NH-7 to Madurai and then get to TVM/ Vizingham via Tenkasi -Shenkottah/Punalur/Aryankavur/Kollam side where the rail line has been made BG I hope (when I last rode it some 30 years ago, it was a very scenic MG line) . You absolutely need a smooth I5 over the mountains into LA kind of upgrade for the Shenkottah-Kollam via Punalur thing for road traffic. That is the only way that this Vizhingam business can be made viable.
Ah yes, a very up-to-date tourist's viewpoint on what will work for a hard-nosed and downright mean business chappie Mr A, who is raising ~2000 crore from quite a few places 8)

Once again "TRANSSHIPMENT" is the key term here, that poster after poster is ignoring. Even the 15 km spur line from Nemom yard is in Phase II, as per Mr A's request. Surprised me a bit, since state govt had IRCON working on it for past two years, out of state funds. "D notifications" for LA was almost sent out along that 15 kms
Javee
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2377
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: NJ

Re: India's Shipping Sector

Post by Javee »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Javee wrote:For all the manufacturing muscle Chennai and the surrounding areas have, we still have one mother vessel calling in at CPT.
this was discontinued recently. there is no direct service any more to chennai.. columbo or singapore transship is required. or somewhere in gulf...
I was aware of the US bound mother vessel canceling the Chennai call, the ME5 route cancellation is news to me. This is seriously hampering our ability to send merchandise directly in time and cost effective way. For eff sakes, we should develop one of our own rather than sending it Colombo way.

http://www.newsvoir.com/release/maersk- ... -3464.html
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