Indian Police Reform

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 655
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby mmasand » 22 Jun 2009 09:27

Cops using youth....retribution or fear?


TOI
Four blasts and half a dozen gunbattles have been reported ever since forces started their march to Lalgarh. Though no policeman has died, the guerrillas have scored a psychological victory — they have sown the seeds of fear and anxiety. It's this fear that has led some policemen, who are themselves not trained to detect explosives, to force local youth to do the dangerous job for them.

Eighteen-year-old Shambhu Ghosh, Madan Mahato (20) and Shakti Ghosh (23) from Dhangori village were among the unlucky locals. They have been on the run since last Thursday when security forces entered the village searching for Maoists.

GuruPrabhu
BRFite
Posts: 1169
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 03:32
Location: Thrissur, Kerala 59.93.8.169

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby GuruPrabhu » 22 Jun 2009 11:17

Baby got bail

By: Kranti Vibhute Date: 2009-06-21 Place:Mumbai

Image

Two-month-old Zoya gets dragged into a dowry harassment case filed by her father's first wife. Legal experts, child rights activists react in shock at her having to get anticipatory bail to avoid arrest

In a case straight out of Ripley's Believe It Or Not, the Mumbai Sessions court last Wednesday (June 17, 2009) granted anticipatory bail for what must have been their youngest applicant ever a two-month-old baby: Zoya aka Mehak Shamshuddin Khan. Lucky for her, or Zoya could have ended up behind bars.

Mother Reshma Khan of two-month-old baby Zoya said the family was called for an inquiry to Nehru Nagar police station. She sat there with the baby in her arms for 10 hours without reprieve, from 1 pm till 10 pm. She even had to feed her baby in front of the police and visitors
Zoya, who has got bail on a surety amount of Rs 10,000, is a member of the Khan family from Kurla who have been accused by Shakila Khan (27) in a dowry harassment case and for a criminal breach of trust. The sessions judge S N Sardesai in his order granted bail for seven of the eight applicants who applied for the anticipatory bail.

Shakila lodged a complaint against Zoya's father and her divorced spouse Shamsuddin Khan at the Nehru Nagar police station and named the entire family in her letter, including Zoya, her biological mother (Shamsuddin's second wife), a neighbour and four relatives. Shakila accused them of harassing and demanding dowry of Rs one lakh and torturing her, the police said.

Khan's lawyers Anil Bhole and Lata Vhotkar said the police initially thought that the matter would be resolved between both parties amicably. "However, when Shakila submitted a complaint letter against Shamsuddin and his family in which his second wife Reshma's baby was also mentioned, he had to rush for anticipatory bail for all his family members," said Bhole.

The police registered the case on Wednesday evening against Khan and his family members, acting on Shakila's complaint letter submitted earlier.

"Shakila and Shamsuddin divorced two years ago and he has since remarried and had Zoya with his second wife," said Nasim Bano Khan, Shamsuddin's mother. The entire family, apart from Shamsuddin, was summoned to the Nehru Nagar police station on Friday for questioning. "We were at the police station from 1 pm to 10 pm. Who would have looked after my baby while we were being questioned by the policemen? Our baby is so small, so I have to still bring her along every time," said a distraught Reshma.



'It's unheard of. The people who mentioned the baby in the complaint must be crazy!'
Ram Jethmalani, senior criminal lawyer

'This is hilarious and unheard of.'
Rohini Salian, ex-chief public prosecutor

'I can't believe my ears, it's bizarre!'
Mohammed Afzal, activist

'It's amazing that such an order could be passed for a baby.'
Girija Vyas, chairperson, National Commission for Women

'I can't believe my ears'

Zoya's case has stirred up a strong response. Former law minister and senior counsel Ram Jethmalani said that it was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard of. "It's probably unheard of even in any other part of the world where a two-month-old baby has to apply for bail. The people who mentioned the baby in the complaint must be crazy!" Similar sentiments were echoed by former senior counsel Rohini Salian, "This is a hilarious and unheard-of episode," she said.

Others were more cutting. Criminal lawyer Dinesh Tiwari said that apart from being an unprecedented case, it was a failure on the part of the police and the judicial process. "There should have been some verification of the applicant. How can a complaint letter naming a two-month-old baby be blindly considered in this manner?" asked Tiwari. Consumer activist Mohammed Afzal said the case highlighted the need for proper judicial guidelines. "I can't believe my ears, it's absolutely bizarre," he said.

Others chalked it up to the lack of awareness. "It's really a laughing matter, but it highlights the ignorance that exists amongst the police and judicial force. It's amazing that such an order could be passed for a baby," said Dr Girija Vyas, chairperson, National Commission for Women.

"The commission will look into this particular case to give us insights into the issues of child jurisprudence, which we are currently examining," said Dr Shanta Sinha, chairperson, National Commission for Protection of Child Rights (NCPCR).

Sociologist Nandini Sardesai said that the move was probably an attempt on the victim's part to get her case noticed.

"To begin with, it's strange that dowry is an issue in a Muslim family, but it reflects the pernicious carryover of a Hindu custom to other communities for their own benefit. Cases of dowry harassment often go unnoticed and this inclusion of the baby was probably to gain some attention and to sensationalise her case.

As for the police, it's no surprise that they often don't know the legalities since they're either apathetic or ignorant."

The case so far
Police have filed a case against Shamshuddin Khan (divorced husband of Shakila), his second wife, daughter, mother, brother, two sisters and one neighbour for dowry harassment (section 498), criminal breach of trust (section 406) and acts done by several persons in furtherance of common intention (section 34). Shamsuddin's bail application was rejected and he was arrested by the Nehru Nagar police station on Saturday.

Children faultless until seven
"The child is presumed to be innocent until the age of seven and it's presumed that until then the child does not understand the difference between good or bad, crime or no crime and there is no Mensrea (intention to commit an offence is absent). Thus the child cannot be punished nor can any case be registered against it. Once the child is seven or above, he is a juvenile and can be tried under the Juvenile Offenders Act by the juvenile courts. In this case since the baby in question is only two months, there is no need for seeking anticipatory bail, nor for the court to grant such bail," explains ex-mayor of Mumbai and advocate Nirmala Samant Prabhavalkar.

For nearly nine hours, Zoya was in her mother's arms while police officials made inquires on Friday. "It was embarrassing to feed my baby in front of the police and while other visitors moved around us. While my statement was being recorded, Zoya continuously cried. That irritated the policemen, but they didn't understand how hard it was for me to take care of my two-month-baby and answer their questions," said Reshma.

When Prakash Kale, senior police inspector of Nehru Nagar station, was asked why the baby was dragged into the matter, he rubbished the claim, saying, "No complaint has been filed against the baby, but since her name was mentioned by the complainant (Shakila) in her letter, the entire family applied for anticipatory bail."

Viv Sreenivasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 64
Joined: 23 Mar 2009 16:29

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Viv Sreenivasan » 22 Jun 2009 11:28

Only in India

"The two were taken to Pirakata camp and given three-foot-long S-shaped rods (possibly taken from a construction site). They're then told to scan for any suspicious object — say, an abandoned bag or a box — lying on the roadside and use the rod to poke around and see if it triggers an explosion."

And if it does trigger an explosion the explanation given by the police with be "saab those poor boys time has come what can we do"?

Its pretty pathetic.

Infact its scoring a self goal, the populace of those villages will turn against the police if they see their youth used as 'IED fodder'.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 685348.cms

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 22 Jun 2009 17:32

Viv Sreenivasan wrote:Only in India

"The two were taken to Pirakata camp and given three-foot-long S-shaped rods (possibly taken from a construction site). They're then told to scan for any suspicious object — say, an abandoned bag or a box — lying on the roadside and use the rod to poke around and see if it triggers an explosion."

And if it does trigger an explosion the explanation given by the police with be "saab those poor boys time has come what can we do"?

Its pretty pathetic.

Infact its scoring a self goal, the populace of those villages will turn against the police if they see their youth used as 'IED fodder'.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 685348.cms


What solutions do you propose?

I will re-cite the trivial solutions I had proposed :

1. enact procedures by which citizens can replace District Police Chiefs, judges, PM, CMs etc.
2. give mineral royalties to commons
3. give guns to ALL commons.

The first one reduced corruption, second one reduces poverty and this will take much of the steam out of naxals. And third one will enable commons to shoot naxals. This way, naxals will be forced to flee and these situations of IED etc will not appear.

In any case, what solutions do you propose?

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3267
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 22 Jun 2009 19:58

Everything is trivial for Rahul Mehtaji... giving guns is trivial, setting up 10000 courts is trivial, giving IDs is trivial....

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 22 Jun 2009 22:34

Tanaji wrote:Everything is trivial for Rahul Mehtaji... giving guns is trivial, setting up 10000 courts is trivial, giving IDs is trivial....


Tanaji,

If West did it, and did it ages ago when there were no PCs, then that proves that it was trivial. No further proof is required.

West has been having 1 court per 15,000 citizens since ages. West has veen having 70% to 90% gun owning citizens since 100s of years. And Germany has fairly dependable ID system even in later 1980s. Hence all these things are trivial.

.

IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7078
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby IndraD » 23 Jun 2009 12:11

Looks like Delhi has become the crime capital. Last night there was gang rape in police station in Indrapuri. Also murders and robbery are happening on hourly basis.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3267
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 23 Jun 2009 13:49

Rahul Mehta wrote:West has veen having 70% to 90% gun owning citizens since 100s of years. And Germany has fairly dependable ID system even in later 1980s. Hence all these things are trivial.

.


No one can be this dense so the only alternative is you are doing it on purpose.

Please provide me proof that US, UK, Germany and France (which constitute a significant proportion of "West") have 70 - 90% gun ownership of their population.

As an example, one source states that total number of gun owners is 80 million. US population ins 303 million, which is 26% of the population. Even the NRA states that 50% of households have a gun. So the biggest gun lobby states that 50% of households, not total population owns a gun... So your 70-90% is out of the window. It may apply only to Switzerland where it is legally required (I think). But Switzerland is not the entire "West".

West has been having 1 court per 15,000 citizens since ages


More lies from you. Lets take UK for example: This says that the number of county courts is 216. Lets round it to 300 for your benefit. Thissays England population is 51 million. This means that there are 170000 people per court, assuming 300 courts. Very likely there are less than 250, so the 170K figure is higher. This is orders of magnitude higher than the 15K you have stated.

You sir, are no different than the neta that you claim to oppose. Both deliberately mislead or lie in an attempt to bring people around to their views....

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 23 Jun 2009 16:04

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_c ... _ownership

US has 90 guns per 100 residents

Switzerland 46.0
France 32.0
Finland 32.0
Canada 31
Sweden 31
Austria 31
Germany 30

So you agree that having 30-40 guns per 100 resident is TRIVIAL?

----

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_j ... per-capita

US has 1 judge per 10,000
Finland, France have more per capita judges than US.

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/99mar22/edit.htm

It has been decided to declare 1999-2000 as the year of judicial action. The first item on Agenda is to clear backlog of all cases that are more than 10 year old. It is slated to be completed by March 31 next year. The second Jammu & Kashmir judicial officers conference addressed by Chief Justice of India Dr. Adarsh Sein Anand has brought out all the bottlenecks responsible for dispensation of speedy justice. That the number of pending cases keep on increasing by leaps and bounds is quite a disturbing phenomenon. True, population of India has been increasing at the rate 2 crore per year. One can naturally anticipate corresponding increase in litigations. It has been pointed out that number of per capita judges in India happens to be the lowest when compared to advanced countries like America and Britain. There are 150 to 160 Judges per million population in America while 100 Judges per million in Great Britain. Even in smaller countries, the average number of judges is 80 per million. But in India it has been as low as 11 per million which has further dipped to 9 belatedly. This is one factor responsible for accumulation of cases in all courts.


UK has 100 judges per 10,00,000 means 1 judge per 10000. And US has more judges than that. And France has more judges than US, as French JurySys has 9 lay Jurors and 3 judges (and so they need more judges). And these high numbers have been for ages. Hence, having 1 court for 15000 citizens is TRIVIAL.

And also, please apply some mind. What does a court need ? Some 10-100 Jurors depending on seriousness of the case, 12 on average. 1 judge, 1-3 clerks, one policeman, 2-3 PCs and some 3000 sqft of space. What is non-trivial about it? Even Greece managed courts with 200-600 Jurors 2300 years ago. So how can managing a court with 10-600 or even 10,000 Jurors be difficult in today's age?

----
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 23 Jun 2009 16:51, edited 1 time in total.

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3267
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 23 Jun 2009 16:50

US has 90 guns per 100 residents


Like a neta, you are playing games. For your benefit, here is your earlier quote

West has veen having 70% to 90% gun owning citizens


What you have posted is totally different than gun owning citizens: its number of guns. The US is peculiar that it has a lot of "collectors" and a lot of people have multiple guns. Hence the 90% number. This does not mean 90% citizens own a gun. The correct number is closer to 50% as per NRA, and thats being generous and includes antique weapons as well.

Aside from the fact, your own numbers prove that 70-90% number for West is overestimated.

US has 1 judge per 10,000
Finland, France have more per capita judges than US.

And these high numbers have been for ages. Hence, having 1 court for 15000 citizens is TRIVIAL.


Again more fraud from you. Here is your own quote again:

West has been having 1 court per 15,000 citizens since ages


Court is not the same as a judge. A court can have multiple judges.

I dont deny there should be more judges in Indian courts, in fact we should run the current courts in shifts. But its not "TRIVIAL" as you so proudly say.

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 23 Jun 2009 17:04

Tanaji wrote:Court is not the same as a judge. A court can have multiple judges.


very few courts have more than 1 judge in US. Almost all lower courts have only 1 judge. Same in UK. Only appeals courts have more than 1 judge. In Franc and Japane, many lower courts have 3 judges. But not so in US, UK

Your number that UK has 1 court for 170,000 is way off the the reality. If UK has 1 judge per 10,000 citizens , are you saying that average court has 17 judges?

---

Even if number of gun owners in US is 80 million households, there are the US population is 300 million. So if you take out children (by citizens, I meant adult citizens), and take married person as one household then number of household will be about 120 million. So that makes 2/3 of the household gun-owners. NRA under-reports gun ownerships as they want to show that "guns are not problem".

And I really dont see your point. Even if 50% of US has been having guns at homes since ages, and if they have 1 judge per 10000 population since ages --- that proves that all these things are low tech and trivial. You are only acting like DDM by saying "it is 10% and not 12%".

Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3267
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 23 Jun 2009 18:29

You are impossible.

Your number that UK has 1 court for 170,000 is way off the the reality.


By Rahul Mehta's reasoning I suppose for whom every problem is "TRIVIAL"? Apart from unilaterally declaring it as "way off", could the Netaji Rahulsaab please do us the favour of actually providing proof to back your assertion? My link for the number of courts in England was from the official HM's Courts website. Now I am willing to accept that they could be wrong, but please pardon me for demanding a bit more proof than your statement.
Even if number of gun owners in US is 80 million households, there are the US population is 300 million. So if you take out children (by citizens, I meant adult citizens), and take married person as one household then number of household will be about 120 million. So that makes 2/3 of the household gun-owners.


Sorry, I don't understand your madarssa math. You are the one who stated that 70-90% of population in the West (note, not just US) have guns. Your own statistics prove that to be totally incorrect, and a weighted average for the "West" will likely to be around 30%

And I really dont see your point. Even if 50% of US has been having guns at homes since ages, and if they have 1 judge per 10000 population since ages --- that proves that all these things are low tech and trivial. You are only acting like DDM by saying "it is 10% and not 12%"


My point is that just like a Neta, you are misleading people by giving false numbers. Both of your claims have been demonstrably shown to be false, and not just by 2% as you claim, but by orders of magnitude.

hat proves that all these things are low tech and trivial.


How??

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 655
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby mmasand » 23 Jun 2009 20:14

Image
Source:rediff

Jeez....looks like recycled pre-historic Armored jeeps.Besides the tow trucks too using the unsafe old pulley to ferry illegally parked cars.

The bikes look promising...
Image
Source:dajiworld

The buses or personnel carriers
Image
Source:dajiworld

I think Mumbai Police needs new branding if anything right now...

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 23 Jun 2009 21:59

mmasand wrote:Jeez....looks like recycled pre-historic Armored jeeps.Besides the tow trucks too using the unsafe old pulley to ferry illegally parked cars.

The first vehicle looks like an older version of M&M Commander (?) Jeep. The new set (the white ones) seems to be from the M&M Bolero (?) series. Infact this seems to be the new set of Police vehicles which have come out.

BTW, the pulley system for towing away illegally parked vehicles seems to be the standard system which is used across India. I have seen such vehicles (known as 'Tiger' in Bangalore), and bigger versions (trucks with Pulleys) of it in Kerala. Bangalore Police have introduced clamping tools recently, but they are less in number.

The bikes look promising...

Hmm.. the look and feel have changed. But this again is nothing new. Lots of such bikes are now part of the force all across the country. It used to be a tradition to use Royal Enfield Bullets as police motor cycles, but now that is getting replaced with these 100cc bikes (new models). These motor cycles come up with the police flashing lights a siren, and in some cases a Public Address system. Police men still have to rely on their walkie talkie's for communication. They are either placed on a clamp near the speedometer, or they clip it to their shoulder straps.

The buses or personnel carriers

This again is a standard issue across many state police forces. I have seen the same type of vehicle with Kerala and Karnataka Police. Eicher, Swaraj Mazda are the two companies who generally supply such vehicles. These are used as troop carriers. They have a provision to store weapons/lathis/riot shields at the back of the vehicle. This vehicle actually suits its purpose (carrying large number of policemen, with a reasonable level of comfort).

mmasand
BRFite
Posts: 655
Joined: 19 May 2009 23:46

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby mmasand » 23 Jun 2009 22:10

i think the Mahindra Striker or Marksman would have been a better choice since they are sleek and capable of providing comfy seating...

Sanjay
BRFite
Posts: 1224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Chaguanas, Trinidad

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sanjay » 24 Jun 2009 03:11

A vehicle - no matter how old or new - can serve its purpose if it is maintained. How many vehicles will remain operational after one year ? How will the police personnel using them be equipped ?

Gaurav_S
BRFite
Posts: 786
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 15:40
Location: Out on other planet
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Gaurav_S » 26 Jul 2009 10:44

After Goa Police Ahmedabad police too gets INSAS.

What’s in store • Bomb detection training facility at Naroda • 65 patrolling vehicles • 100 bulletproof jackets and helmets • 400 new INSAS rifles worth Rs 1 cr • Citizen facilitation centre at every police station


A year after 18 serial blasts rocked the city killing 54 people, a vigilant state police is pursuing an integrated approach to plugging security loopholes — it is intensively recruiting and training forces to prevent or counter any possible terrorist attack besides extensively procuring most-modern equipment for its various departments to step up security measures.

Of the Rs 95 crore granted by the Centre and the state government for modernisation of police forces in Gujarat (2009-10), Rs 24 crore has been allocated for megacity Ahmedabad alone.

Bomb Detection Training Facility in Naroda

The city will be getting a bomb detection training facility at SRP II (State Reserve Police) in Naroda within the next six months. It will procure equipment worth Rs 3 crore that will include underwater metal detectors, blasting machines, bomb disposal suits with communication systems, real-time X-Ray viewing systems, fibre optic surveillance sets and Swiss army knives. The training facility will help in the creation of 13 bomb disposal squads across the state.

The city police control room will get a video wall at the cost of Rs 50 lakh for monitoring the CCTV network being set up across different areas. In addition, Rs 68 lakh will be spent on computerised monitoring of the police patrolling system.

65 patrolling vehicles and a mobile control room

State IG for Police Modernisation Hasmukh Patel said: “A megacity like Ahmedabad which is developing by leaps and bounds has its own security issues. That is precisely why a major portion of the grants given by the state and the Centre will be utilised for modernising the city police department.”

Every police station in the city will get 10 INSAS rifles (5.56 mm) compared to six per police station in rural Ahmedabad.

The 400 new rifles costing Rs 1.14 crore will replace the .303 rifles currently in use.

Besides, the city police will get 65 patrolling vehicles costing Rs 6 lakh each, and a mobile command and control vehicle costing Rs 40 lakh that will function as a temporary control room in case of emergency.

While last year the cops received 80 bullet-proof jackets, this year 100 more jackets and 100 bullet-proof helmets will be provided.

All the 35 police stations in the city will have Citizen Facilitation Centres to enhance police-public interaction. These will be set up at a cost of Rs 52 lakh.

1,224 PSIs, 8,734 LRD jawans to be recruited this year

The cops will also get two bullet-resistant vehicles and a whole range of new equipment like night vision binoculars, hand-held wireless sets and a tactical blanket for ballistic protection during anti-terrorist operations. A digital voice logger will be procured for call data analysis during investigation of organised and terror-related crime.

The cyber crime cell is getting an advance password recovery kit, a SIM Card seizer and an email sender location tracer worth Rs 10 lakh.

Besides getting the new machinery, the police department will also recruit 1,224 police sub-inspectors and as many as 8,734 Lok Rakshak Dal jawans this year. Last year, 349 PSIs and 5,390 Lok Rakshak Dal jawans were recruited.


Ahmedabad Mirror

Suyogv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 66
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 07:26
Location: Mumbai India

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Suyogv » 26 Jul 2009 11:29

Sachin wrote:
mmasand wrote:Jeez....looks like recycled pre-historic Armored jeeps.Besides the tow trucks too using the unsafe old pulley to ferry illegally parked cars.

The first vehicle looks like an older version of M&M Commander (?) Jeep. The new set (the white ones) seems to be from the M&M Bolero (?) series. Infact this seems to be the new set of Police vehicles which have come out.

BTW, the pulley system for towing away illegally parked vehicles seems to be the standard system which is used across India. I have seen such vehicles (known as 'Tiger' in Bangalore), and bigger versions (trucks with Pulleys) of it in Kerala. Bangalore Police have introduced clamping tools recently, but they are less in number.

The bikes look promising...

Hmm.. the look and feel have changed. But this again is nothing new. Lots of such bikes are now part of the force all across the country. It used to be a tradition to use Royal Enfield Bullets as police motor cycles, but now that is getting replaced with these 100cc bikes (new models). These motor cycles come up with the police flashing lights a siren, and in some cases a Public Address system. Police men still have to rely on their walkie talkie's for communication. They are either placed on a clamp near the speedometer, or they clip it to their shoulder straps.

The buses or personnel carriers

This again is a standard issue across many state police forces. I have seen the same type of vehicle with Kerala and Karnataka Police. Eicher, Swaraj Mazda are the two companies who generally supply such vehicles. These are used as troop carriers. They have a provision to store weapons/lathis/riot shields at the back of the vehicle. This vehicle actually suits its purpose (carrying large number of policemen, with a reasonable level of comfort).

Recently Mumbai police introduced 160 Bajaj 150/180 cc Pulsar Motercycles. (I saw one of it, it look like so cool) Mumbai police also got M&M Armoured vehicels Rakshak. In Maharashtra police mostly Tata 407 vans are used as Wireless mobile vans. Each police station has around 3~6 such vans according to there area. Police station aslo has its own set of Jeeps Mumbai police uses Bolero, Qualis and Tavera, Maharashtra police uses Sumo and Armada (Mumbai police has Blue, yellow, red strips. Maharashtra police has Black and white strips on there vehicals). I have uploded its pics on wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Police

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 05 Aug 2009 09:53

Hindu:Security: police to share details
THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Director General of Police Jacob Punnose said on Monday that the forthcoming conference of heads of police departments of south Indian States would streamline the system for timely sharing of intelligence on matters relating to left wing extremism, religious radicalism and coastal security.

Senior police officers from Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, the Lakshadweep islands and Puducherry, on Tuesday, will discuss these subjects that affect the internal security of south Indian States in varying degrees.


The Hindu: Coordinated police action mooted
The delegates will discuss chiefly the activities of Left wing extremist groups, with special reference to the activities of the CPI (Maoist). The meeting will also deliberate on the current status and activities of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) and pro-LTTE organisations in South India. The issues of Sri Lankan fishermen, including their arrests in the Indian waters, will also be discussed. The meeting will devise a strategy for joint response in the event of a terror strike.

Though Kerala does not have a sizeable threat from the Naxalites, she faces a problem thanks to the large number of migrant labour coming in from AP and other North Eastern states. The labour contractors do no maintain proper records, and many cases of naxalites and North Eastern guerilla cadre coming and working in Kerala had been reported. The whole issue came into lime light when AP Police came in to a place near Ernakulam, picked up a hard core naxalite (Malla Reddy??) from one of the worker groups and went back. He was then reported to be killed in a police encounter. Coastal security is one important aspect, and hope there is enough follow up action on this. Kerala received a good patrol boat recently, and 8 more are supposed to come in soon from the shipyard in Goa.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 05 Aug 2009 09:56

Kerala Police now has a full fledged broadband intranet connecting every police station, all the way upto the Police H.Q
As per my undertanding this network can also be used for accessing the CIPA (Common Integrated Police Applications) tools as well.

vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3004
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby vera_k » 05 Aug 2009 10:53


ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53881
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ramana » 05 Aug 2009 20:21

Sachin wrote:Kerala Police now has a full fledged broadband intranet connecting every police station, all the way upto the Police H.Q
As per my undertanding this network can also be used for accessing the CIPA (Common Integrated Police Applications) tools as well.


sachin, The site has links to NCRB and BPRD which are very interesting. I would like you to add those links at top of this thread. BTW they are thinking on our lines (enummerating threats common to all of them) at the mtg of Southern States DGPs.

Thanks, ramana

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53881
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ramana » 05 Aug 2009 20:24

X-posted...

SRay wrote:India’s ‘Colonial’ Police Weaken Rule of Law, Rights Groups Say
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=aIp0PVBDQweU
India is short of police, deploying an officer for every 1,037 residents, compared with a global average of one per 333 citizens, said the Human Rights Watch report. Ill-trained officers typically are on call 24 hours, sleeping in dormitories short of beds or toilets, it said, citing interviews with 80 police and scores of other people over a year. They often work without vehicles and armed with World War I-era guns, it said.


An article that is thankfully critical of the conditions of police and not just dismissive of them. A good read.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 06 Aug 2009 09:54

ramana wrote:sachin, The site has links to NCRB and BPRD which are very interesting. I would like you to add those links at top of this thread.

Roger. Wil Co ;).

vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3004
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby vera_k » 07 Aug 2009 11:09

Tehelka has an article with pics about an encounter.

Murder in plain sight

Suyogv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 66
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 07:26
Location: Mumbai India

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Suyogv » 07 Aug 2009 19:42

vera_k wrote:Tehelka has an article with pics about an encounter.

Murder in plain sight

I cant belive this

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53881
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ramana » 07 Aug 2009 20:32

X-posted....

Singha wrote:CBI finds MBA student Ranbir Singh was shot 30 times

Press Trust Of India
New Delhi, August 07, 2009

A Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) probe has found that the July 3 'shootout' in which the Dehradun police killed 24-year-old MBA student Ranbir Singh was staged and he was shot at point-blank range 30 times, according to highly placed sources in the agency.

In its preliminary report, the CBI's Special Investigation Team (SIT) has dismissed the police theory that Singh was trying to escape on a motorbike after stealing a service revolver from a senior policemen and that he was fired upon from a distance.

These findings were confirmed after the SIT conducted a recce of the site and also recorded statements of the witnesses last week.

The sources told IANS in New Delhi on Friday that police personnel dragged the badly bruised Singh out of one of the four police vehicles in the Ladpur jungles and laid him down before firing 30 shots from close range.

"All evidence and clues gathered by us clearly establish it is a fake encounter. They fired 30 gun shots at him from three different makes of firearms. Our investigation also shows that they badly beat up Singh in custody for two hours," a senior CBI official involved in the investigation told IANS on condition of anonymity.

The police version is that Singh was riding a motorcycle with his two friends on July 3 when policemen stopped him at a check post near Dehradun.

They alleged that the three men got into an altercation with a police sub-inspector who had asked them to stop and then fled into a nearby forest after snatching his service revolver. In the ensuing shootout, Singh was gunned down while the other two managed to escape.

No policemen was injured, even as the state police termed it an encounter, a euphemism for shootout.

As the incident led to public outrage, the state government suspended eight police personnel including Senior Superintendent of Police Amit Sinha.

The Lucknow branch of the CBI registered a case on July 31 after Uttarakhand Chief Minister Ramesh Pokhriyal recommended the transfer of the probe to the agency.

"They (police) put him in a jeep and took him deep in the jungle. The 11 bullets we found buried seven inches deep in ground clearly suggest that the policemen laid him down and fired at him from close range."

"While some bullets pierced his body, there were other shots that missed him. There were in all 12 bullet marks on his body. The recovery of the bullets suggest that the shots were fired from three firearms - an assault rifle like an AK-47, a sophisticated 9mm pistol and a pistol of .38 bore," the official said.

The CBI also found that the pistol recovered from Singh's possession had not been fired. SIT sources said they had also managed to collect blood samples from the crime scene.

"We have also managed to collect a blood-soaked handkerchief from one of the four police vehicles. We will now conduct a DNA test and if the DNA and blood group matches that of Singh, it will establish beyond any doubt that he was carried in the police vehicle. That would nail the lie of Dehradun police which say that he was trying to flee on a motorbike," the official added.

The agency's preliminary report was also based on the post-mortem examination carried out on Singh's body that suggested there were 24 physical injury wounds inflicted apart from the bullet injuries.

In addition, the CBI has also dismissed the police claim that Singh and his friends had criminal records. "So far we have not found any criminal record either in Ghaziabad or in Meerut," said the official.

The SIT hopes to finalise its report once the forensic test results come in a fortnight and prepare a charge-sheet.



Something is terribly wrong here. Need to follow up on this. I think there is some local big wings using police to bump off their targets.

Please follow up in local news papers.

Thanks, ramana

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1843
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby SRoy » 08 Aug 2009 01:39

The two news items (manipur and uttrakhand) just establishes a pattern, guttersnipes...lowest dregs of the society...recruited and provided arm to protect the corrupt. Their only qualification is lack of empathy for fellow citizens and genetically hardwired barbarity. No wonder they get their a$$e$ whipped everywhere and call for the Army.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 08 Aug 2009 12:36

SRoy wrote:The two news items (manipur and uttrakhand) just establishes a pattern, guttersnipes...lowest dregs of the society...recruited and provided arm to protect the corrupt.

Policemen are recruited from the same society which they are supposed to protect. The problems facing the society will reflect in the police force too. I guess this aspect was mentioned in this same thread, when barbarity of the UP Police was discussed.

No wonder they get their a$$e$ whipped everywhere and call for the Army.

There are very many states in India, where Army is not even asked for and the police does a jolly good job (A.P, Maha, T.N etc. etc.).

dinakar
BRFite
Posts: 153
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 17:17

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby dinakar » 09 Aug 2009 08:48

STF to train another batch of IPS officers
COIMBATORE: The Special Task Force at Sathyamangalam is assuming the role of a training institution for imparting jungle warfare training to Indian Police Service officers for the second time, K. Radhakrishnan, Additional Director General of Police (Law and Order), said on Friday.

Talking to reporters, Mr. Radhakrishnan said that the 85 officers from the 2008 batch were trained recently. Impressed by the training given to the batch, the Centre is sending the officers of the 2007 batch, comprising 85 officers. They would be given a week’s training.

Mr. Radhakrishnan said that in addition to IPS officers, handpicked young and agile Armed Reserve Police personnel were also being sent for training.


I think this jungle warfare training might be the effort of Vijayakumar who is the head of National Police Academy. He was the chief of STF when veerappan was killed.

Dmurphy
BRFite
Posts: 1543
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 11:20
Location: India

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Dmurphy » 14 Sep 2009 13:24

Police officers being reduced to footballs: Chidambaram
Coming down heavily on state police chiefs for arbitrarily transferring senior officers, Home Minister P Chidambaram said on Monday that many police personnel had been reduced to footballs, being kicked from one post to the other.

"It is a matter of deep regret that many police officers have been reduced to a football, to be kicked in here and there, from one post to another, without regard to the damage done to the job as well as the officer," Chidambaram said in his opening remarks at the three-day conference of state police chiefs.

State governments also drew flak from Chidambaram for their callous mindset towards security issues, reflected in the non-transparent recruitment procedures and ad-hoc transfer of police officers.

"I ask you to search your hearts and answer the question, what is the average length of tenure of a district superintendent of police? What is the average length of tenure of a station house officer? Why do you remain silent when arbitrary postings and transfers are made by the state government," Chidambaram queried.

State governments, he said, had been unwilling to revamp their recruitment procedure to make it time bound and increase transparency.

"Is it not your duty, as the head of the state police, to raise your voice not only on behalf of your officers but also on behalf of the people that you are duty bound to protect? As one famous judge said, 'When there is a duty to speak, silence is culpable'."

Another area of concern Chidambaram highlighted was the issue of funds. Urging state governments to grant "adequate funds" to the police, he said states generally give residual money, after allocation for other schemes, to the police.

"Given the constitutional responsibility, state governments must provide adequate funds for the state police. In fact, security of the state must be the first charge on the state exchequer. However, I find that many states take the exact opposite route and allot only the residue -- after providing for other plan and non-plan schemes -- to the head of 'police'."

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2009 09:18

Dmurphy wrote:Police officers being reduced to footballs: Chidambaram

Good to see Chidambaram bringing up this point. As per existing rules a police man can be posted to any part of India (if situation warrants). Generally PCs, HCs get transferred in an out of one district, and ASIs get transferred within a police range. SIs,CIs and Dy.SPs who form the major chunk of investigating officers can be posted to any part of the state, and transferred any number of times a year. More than any thing else, "transfer" is used to intimidate upright officers.

Various police commissions formed for betterment of policing recommended the forming up of a Police Establishment Board which looks into promotions and transfers etc. Many states have not even agreed to form such a board.

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 15 Sep 2009 10:17

Sachin wrote:.... More than any thing else, "transfer" is used to intimidate upright officers.


Yes. Transfers are used to intimidate officers, be upright or non-upright. It is another guess that how many IPS these days are upright to begin with. Because if too many officers are upright, whyTH they dont expose corruption in other fellow non-upright officers? Yes, you do see retired IPS officers complaining about corruption in IPS. But as long as they are within IPS, you never ever hear them exposing other corrupt IPS. So much for their being upright. The fact that we never ever see IPS exposing and setting traps on corrupt IPS officers makes me conclude that uprightness in IPS is very very limited in nature, or may be non-existent.

Various police commissions formed for betterment of policing recommended the forming up of a Police Establishment Board which looks into promotions and transfers etc. Many states have not even agreed to form such a board.


And such boards will not reduce corruption even by 1%. The "board" will only stream line the loot and ensure that HomeMin/CM get lesser % of the loot and board members (retired judges, retired IPS etc) will get higher % of loot.

In the "police board" proposal from SCjs' fatawaa, the board will consist of 5-7 people. These people will be be retired judges, retired IPS, eminent intellectuals and HomeMin. This board *will* have power to kick policemen like footballs. So situation doesnt change even by a zilch, except that instead of CM/HomeMin, it is board members who will kick the footballs. As of now power to transfer is used by HomeMin/CM to collect a share of what IPS loots. And when board comes, that share will be divided amongst board members, there by reducing the share of "politicians".

The police board proposal is ONLY to reduce power of OBC elitemen, restore the power of UC elitemen and nothing more. As strength of OBC MLAs increased in past 20 years, the strength of OBC elitemen in IPS has been increasing and strength of UC elitemen has been decreasing. So many areas like railway contracts, mining, construction etc which need criminals and thus need full co-operation of IPS officers is now slipping into the hands of OBC elitemen. "He who controls IPS controls the criminals and gets these businesses" is how many businesses work in may parts of India. Now when board comes, the board members will consist of UC because most retired judges and retired IPS are UC. And thus power of UC elitemen will be restored. And they will own criminals and they will get these businesses.

This police board is elitemen-vs-elitemen game, and nothing more. It does not improve interface of policemen with citizens at large.

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2009 16:35

^^^^^
Considering the above, the only solution would be follow a model close to what is in place in US of A. Every town, state to have its own localised police forces/fire brigades. In that case the area in which the officers can be transferred would be limited. If a sub-inspector in a town ship acts smart,may be he gets transferred to the local CID or traffic (unlike the case now, getting transferred to 300 kms away).

Suyogv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 66
Joined: 19 Feb 2009 07:26
Location: Mumbai India

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Suyogv » 15 Sep 2009 18:03

Sachin wrote:^^^^^
Considering the above, the only solution would be follow a model close to what is in place in US of A. Every town, state to have its own localised police forces/fire brigades. In that case the area in which the officers can be transferred would be limited. If a sub-inspector in a town ship acts smart,may be he gets transferred to the local CID or traffic (unlike the case now, getting transferred to 300 kms away).

In USA there is completely diffrent police system. In each city there is on Sheriff's office, Second is Actual police dept. Both of them are diffrent. But they have same Juridection area. I am not sure it can be implemented in India. Any one knowing USA police system please explain more.

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 15 Sep 2009 20:19

Sachin wrote:Considering the above [RM's post above], the only solution would be follow a model close to what is in place in US of A. Every town, state to have its own localised police forces/fire brigades. In that case the area in which the officers can be transferred would be limited. If a sub-inspector in a town ship acts smart,may be he gets transferred to the local CID or traffic (unlike the case now, getting transferred to 300 kms away).


True and AWMTA :) . But USA's police is non-corrupt mainly because citizens have procedures to expel/replace police chief (sheriff). Which is why one of the importatest point in my election campaign was to enact 3 trivial Executive Notifications which will enable citizens to replace District Police Chiefs, CM and also HomeMin. Once that happens, corruption in police will vanish within hours.

Transfers should be done by strict random assignments only. And citizens should have procedure to expel any errant policeman.

======

Suyogv wrote:In USA there is completely diffrent police system. In each city there is on Sheriff's office, Second is Actual police dept. Both of them are diffrent. But they have same Juridection area. I am not sure it can be implemented in India. Any one knowing USA police system please explain more.


In US, details of police system varies from state to state, and sometimes district to district. And titles are confusing. But two main essences are

1. Police comes under a person called Sheriff (or Police Commissioner) and Sheriff is almost always elected and also recallable. And even when Sheriff is appointed, citizens have informal or formal procedures to kick him out. Threat of expulsion is very powerful tool. In US, every police chiefs sets trap to trap corrupt police officials, where in India, every police chief gives targets to PI !! And the ONLY is reason is that we citizens of India unlike those of US cant expel the police chief.

2. In addition, ALL US Districts have Coroner's Jury System to control policemen. So if a policemen kills or hurts any person, be legally or illegally, a Jury of Commons is called to decide whether the action was "justifiable", "excusable" or "criminal". A majority verdict of "criminal" would almost guarantee expulsion of that policeman. This system first came in UK in 950 AD and within decades corruption in police vanished. The system was so popular that almost every West European country adopted it. And so much, that US took the system and did not even change the name (*) !! And the three words which were used in 950 AD in UK --- "justifiable", "excusable" or "criminal" --- are still used today. One of my election demand was/is to blindly COPY=ape=mimick this Western system and create the same Coroner's Jury System in India, without changing the name.

A cursory glance on European Economic History shows that a European country's economy improved ONLY after it took this Coroner's Jury System to tame the policemen. And the countries which did not take this system (East Europe, Russia, Spain, Portugal etc) remain backward for a long time to come.

( * = About name = word Coroner means "Crown" i.e. King. It is old English word. US has/had no king, and yet the use this name. And even though, some 37 states of US were formed after king was kicked out, these states still use the word "Coroner's Jury" or "Coroner's Inquest". Thats because this system was highly popular).

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7744
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 15 Sep 2009 21:07

Suyogv wrote:In each city there is on Sheriff's office, Second is Actual police dept. Both of them are diffrent.

Sheriff is always an elected police chief of a county. He may (or may not) have any experience in actual police job. The actual policing job is done by folks known as "Sheriff's Deputies" who are fully trained law enforcement officials. In cities generally you have a Police Chief appointed by the city's Mayor. Police Chief again can be some one with law enforcement experience. In NYPD if I understand correctly, some of the officials who head the police may not be people with a police background at all.

ChandraS

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ChandraS » 16 Sep 2009 01:12

^ With regards to City Police and Sheriff's Dept - one difference atleast in urban areas is that the Sheriff's Dept has jurisdiction over the entire county whereas the City Police jurisdiction extends only upto city limits. Sometimes a city might just vote to have the Sheriff's Dept as their main law enforcement agency. The general hierarchy is City Police > Sheriff's Dept > Highway Patrol (if some states which have them. Others mostly have it under Sheriff's Dept). This info came from a building contractor who was an ex- Sheriff's Deputy before getting into construction long time back. So some of this may have changed in recent days.

Adrija
BRFite
Posts: 285
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 19:42

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Adrija » 16 Sep 2009 13:32

Both the IAS and IPS, as well as the judiciary, flow directly from the colonial administration construct, whose sole aim was to EXCLUDE the citizens from the government. We have continued with the system (which is why we are not a real democracy), and is the main reason why (a) our police forces and government are corrupt and inefficient (because they are not accountable to the people they are supposed to be serving) (b) our cities are the way they are- the local governments are largely in name only

We have taken some steps towards instituting genuine democracy by the 72nd and 73rd amendments, but these don't go nearly far enough. There is no reason why the police should not be largely local...... that does not mean that the state and centre step back totally, they can continue to have reserve/ investigation ability a la FBI, State Marshalls, SRPs, etc to address organized crime, racketeering etc; but the common citizen should not need to interact with anyone other than the local police for reasons of traffic management, petty crimes, help etc

Local governments should have control over petty law and order/ policing, cleanliness, sewage, electricity and water distribution, schools, primary health, town planning and maintenance, and implementation around shops and establishments act, food adulteration act etc - that is the only sustainable way for an efficient and non-corrupt government.

Similarly, judiciary should be "by the people" i.e., jury sys- again, the only sustainable way for it to be effective and non-corrupt

Won't continue further, getting dangerously off-track now

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Rahul Mehta » 16 Sep 2009 15:32

Adrija wrote:Similarly, judiciary should be "by the people" i.e., jury sys- again, the only sustainable way for it to be effective and non-corrupt


Hi Adrija, welcome to BR. And yes, JurySys is the answer. AWMTA :)

(AWMTA means "All wise men think alike" to be followed by smiley sign. It is one of the most popular acronym on BR).


Return to “Technology & Economic Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests