Indian Police Reform

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 19 Mar 2010 17:37

Ravi Raj Atrey wrote:THE LAND-MARK SUPREME COURT JUDGEMENT ON POLICE REFORMS

How many states have implemented the findings of this judgement? Some of them have come up with some sort of quasi-establishments (like Police establishment), but have not implemented the full recommendations. For eg. in Kerala, the home minister said that the govt. should have the right to transfer any officer to any station without fixing a tenure. His reason was that "transfer" was the only threat which made policemen do an honest day's job ;). While even a baby knows that the actual reason is to bully the police officer to tow the politician's line.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 19 Mar 2010 18:52

I thought Baby was the Education Minister ;)

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby pgbhat » 21 Mar 2010 07:23

http://twitter.com/Vikram_Sood/status/10634103759
Did we know that Bihar didnt recruit a single policeman in 14 yrs leading 2 a shortfall of 25000 & it does not have a police trng centre?.
:roll:

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 22 Mar 2010 09:58

ASPuar wrote:I thought Baby was the Education Minister ;)

:lol: Yep "Baby" Boy is indeed the Education Minister of the Socalist Republic. The home minister is another hero Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, who had opined that "if the party (CPI(M)) orders to do so, he would even make crude bombs right in front of the police stations" :).

PS: "Baby" Boy was an M.A right from his birth (his initials are M.A) ;).

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 22 Mar 2010 14:19

Sachin wrote:PS: "Baby" Boy was an M.A right from his birth (his initials are M.A) ;).


:rotfl:

On a more serious note, how do these people get elected? I read somewhere that Keralas HM K. Balakrishnan ordered a bunch of CPM cadres who were accused of politically motivated murder, released from prison!

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Ravi Raj Atrey » 22 Mar 2010 14:48

Please join us, we can bring the desired changes togeather, we at Foundation of Restoration of National Values (FRNV) are a group of ethical citizens committed to nation's development including India's leading thinkers and leaders from digfferent ssegments like Swami Bhoomananda Thirtha, Sri Ratan Tata, Justice Venktachellia, Sri N. Vittal, Dr. E. Sreedharan, Sri T.S. Krishnamurthi etc. among the others. Please join us visit the link below and send your details to us in the given format:

http://home.valuefoundation.in/index.ph ... &Itemid=65

Warm regards
Ravi Raj Atrey

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 23 Mar 2010 20:50

ASPuar wrote:On a more serious note, how do these people get elected? I read somewhere that Keralas HM K. Balakrishnan ordered a bunch of CPM cadres who were accused of politically motivated murder, released from prison!

K. Balakrishnan comes from one of the districts in Kerala, which is a strong commie bastion. Infact most of the commie leaders who consider violence as the way of life is from this district - Kannur. Yes, there has been numerous cases in which CPI(M) party workers accused of murdering rivals have been let off. In some cases, the state prosecution (under directions from CPI(M)) just does not put their case forward with all good evidence, and the case gets thrown out. If I am not mistaken CPI(M) also has a fund exclusively to support families of party workers who are now inside the prison.

Not to deviate from the topic of thread in any way.... :)

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 28 Mar 2010 14:07

Paging police "gurus" like Sachin saar etc:

Just finished watching "Ab tak Chappan". Truely a superb movie.

Does the film accurately depict the working of the "Special Branch" of most police forces in India ( if not Mumbai police)? Do the guys posted in the CB actually have so many informers all over the place and they actually are given a carte-blanche to do what it takes to clean the scum out?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 28 Mar 2010 19:59

sum wrote:Does the film accurately depict the working of the "Special Branch" of most police forces in India

If I am not mistaken Mumbai's squad of police men (Late. PI. Salaskar,PI Sachin H Vaze, Pradeep Sharma , PSI Dhobhale, Nayak, Desai et.al) were from the Crime Branch CID. Mumbai Police had a wing which specialised in extortion related crimes, and these folks were part of that team. IIRC their unit was Crime Branch - Criminal Intelligence Unit.

"Ab Tak Chappan" was loosely based on the Mumbai Police way of functioning, and I feel that it was pretty much accurate. CB team also would have lots of informers (who would not squeal over money) and it is based on their inputs that they form up their strategies. In Mumbai since most of the underworld business also got mixed up with money, and also international crime (courtesy Dawood et.al) the actions of the Crime Branch-CIU yeiled results on multiple fronts. Crime Branch was formed to deal with specific crimes because of their complexity cannot be handled by the local police units.

The "Special Branch" or SB CID, is a totally different unit. Generally they do not work in uniforms. They are there to watch the society in general. It is also very rare to find reports that say Special Branch "encountered" some one. All police stations would have a special branch Head Constable, whose role is to get daily reports from the police men (uniformed) doing their beats. They also do their own kind of patrolling. Their reports are collated at the district level and sent up. The SB CID also would have liaison units with IB etc. to share information. Passport Application verification is another task which is regularly done by SB CID men. I dont know if they also do verification for Amateur Radio Operator licenses as well.

Some states like T.N had a special unit 'Q Branch' which was part of SB CID, but they dealt exclusively with terrorism. It was formed when LTTE had a strong presence in TN.

Officially no department/sub-unit gets the 'carte-blanche' to do what ever they want to solve the crime, or the problems :). But reading through the various episodes of history, we can understand that it was given at times. K. Karunakaran gave such a license to Jayaram Padikkal IPS when Kerala was getting beaten by Naxalism, and in Punjab C.M Beant Singh gave a similar license to Rebeiro IPS /KPS Gill IPS when Khalistan insurgency was at its peak.

In the case of movies, take the case of 'Satya'. In that the Mumbai Police Commissioner Amod Shukla is told by the Home Minister - 'please clean up the city' :).

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 30 Mar 2010 16:24

Sachin wrote:In the case of movies, take the case of 'Satya'. In that the Mumbai Police Commissioner Amod Shukla is told by the Home Minister - 'please clean up the city' :).


:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby mmasand » 31 Mar 2010 02:51

Sachin,just want to clarify a few things you pointed out:

CID in Maharashtra is not in anyway associated with Crime Branch(Mumbai).The CID is headed by an Addl.CP and based out of Pune.Thy primarily investigate Crime Scene's and Financial crimes and petty cases where local units must call in investigators.Currently in Mumbai the CID only has 3 offices :Fingerprint Bureau,Cyber Cell and 'G' Branch which carries out Passport Verifications and clearance certificates,an ACP is based out of the Crawford Market HQ to look after these wings which are merely administrative duties.

Crime Branch on the other hand is Mumbai specific and investigates and collects intelligence on serious organised crime.Currently 'headless',bcoz Maria has been transferred.Apparently local beat cops do not collect any information whatsoever,it is the Crime Branch which sends out a constable from the zonal office to gather samachar from the panwala.

Coming to Special Branch,2 units which are primarily armed cops meant to protect strategic interests near 'town' side of Mumbai city.These were highly operational during the 26/11 attacks and responded to CST and Trident.Unfortunately for them, there were multiple locations and most of their time was wasted in transporting them from one venue to the other due to lack of 'information' as to where and how many pigs were roaming the city.

ATS chief and Salaskar and Kamte were shot while driving down behind Cama.The 'G' branch office was merely 150 metres away.I must say the state of the offices of the CID is deplorable.I couldn't find a single chair which was not broken to sit on.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 31 Mar 2010 15:16

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City ... 745164.cms

Cops selling corpses: Raj orders probe

TNN, Mar 31, 2010, 05.26am IST


JAIPUR: Facing allegations that its police was selling unclaimed bodies, Rajasthan government on Tuesday admitted that 15 such bodies were given to private medical colleges and hospitals without following proper legal procedure in Sriganganagar.

It, however, maintained that there was no evidence of selling of these bodies. Seven police personnel, including four inspectors, have been charge sheeted departmentally in this connection. Three inspectors have also been charge sheeted.

Six others, including five assistant sub-inspectors and one head constable, have been removed from active duty and sent to police lines. They have also been served a show-cause notice. Home minister Shanti Dhariwal's admission came in the Assembly in the wake of a BJP member Om Birla raising the issue following allegations by a Sriganganagar-based jeweller Rajkumar Soni that the body of his 19-year-old son Rahul, was sold to a medical college by police.

He claimed that a Right to Information query had brought out the irregularities in disposal of unclaimed bodies by the police.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 20 Apr 2010 22:51

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 835346.cms

Bihar cops beat NRI, dad for overtaking IPS officer's car

IANS, Apr 20, 2010, 01.26pm IST

PATNA: An NRI businessman from Russia and his elderly father were allegedly beaten by policemen in Bihar's Patna district for overtaking the vehicle of a probationer Indian Police Service (IPS) officer. A probe has been ordered, authorities said Tuesday.

Shajendra Bihari Singh, in his early 40s, was beaten Sunday after he overtook the car of IPS officer Vivek Kumar when he was on his way from Jehanabad to native Dharhara village in Punpun near Patna.

In the event that the complainant was driving rashly, a challan could have been issued, and he could have been fined. Nowhere in the IPC or Motor Vehicles Act is the penalty for rash driving specified to be a 'thrashing'.

A democracy is not an appropriate place for such power drunk behaviour.
"I was beaten like a criminal by policemen. I was innocent and I did not violate law of the land, but police treated me like a criminal and beat me with bamboo sticks and hands," Shajendra Singh, who owns a restaurant business in Russia, told IANS.

"My only crime was that I overtook the vehicle of a police officer of Jehanabad. He was angered and stopped my vehicle few minutes later. He started abusing and beating me."

He said the policemen thrashed his father Brijbihari Singh, who was with him. "Also, we were taken to Parsa Bazar police station and beaten again there," he added.

The NRI, who displayed marks of injuries on his body, lodged a complaint but police refused to register a case.

"Local police officers and Bihar's top police officers whom I contacted for justice downplayed the incident. They discouraged me to raise voice against the injustice," he said.

The Russia-based restaurateur then lodged a complaint at the chief judicial magistrate in Patna civil court Monday and petitioned the State Human Rights Commission for justice.

Additional Director General (police headquarters) P.K. Thakur said: "A probe has been ordered into the case. We have asked the DIG (deputy inspector general) to investigate into the case and submit a report within a week."


Rule 11(3) of the IPS Probation Rules allow for the dismissal of a probationer for misconduct. Perhaps government, in its wisdom, should make use of this rule, to teach the fraternity of Police officers, that they are public servants, and not public masters.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 21 Apr 2010 18:28

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/ ... an-nsg.htm

What was the need for this comment and comparison? It may even be correct in practice (we don't know) but given the lengths the desi media goes just to get ratings, this will get blown out of proportion to kingdom come...

The real questions that need to be asked are the ones no one asks the police:

  • What are the detection rates for serious crimes?
  • More importantly, out of those detected, what proportion result in a conviction?
  • What steps have been taken to increase intelligence, given that the ATS types who had huge numbers of informers are no longer there, and they took their network / khabris with them?
  • What is the plan to improve on situational awareness of a developing situation a.k.a better co-ordination in the control room?
  • For a truly big event, how do the police co-ordinate with fire/ambulance?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 21 Apr 2010 20:49

Tanaji wrote:What was the need for this comment and comparison? It may even be correct in practice (we don't know) but given the lengths the desi media goes just to get ratings, this will get blown out of proportion to kingdom come...

Amen to that. Shivanandan is a tough and smart cop (when he was Jt.Commissioner in Mu.Po, he went heavily against the gangsters). But this kind of "I am better than some one else" kind of remarks is going to touch many raw nerves some where. There was no need for such a remark, which any way is very tough to ascertain on the ground. The media these days have a good library, and god forbid some thing bad happens again the same media would crucify Shivanandan and his team using this very statement of his :(.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 22 Apr 2010 14:35

Wasnt he the chap who had a blog? I think hes a pretty good Police Comm. Its regrettable that hes made this remark, but you know, sometimes people get carried.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 24 Apr 2010 21:54

Not directly related to Indian police but could any guru kindly point out the basic structure of British and American police forces( like in India IPS will get SP and above ranks whereas constables and SI are direct recruits trough other exams etc)? Any good links explaining the same also would be helpful.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 03 May 2010 09:23

sum wrote:Not directly related to Indian police but could any guru kindly point out the basic structure of British and American police forces( like in India IPS will get SP and above ranks whereas constables and SI are direct recruits trough other exams etc)? Any good links explaining the same also would be helpful.


Law Enforcement: UK
The above is a Wikipedia link, which most probably you would have already seen. Just completed reading the biography of Leonard "Nipper" Read the Det. Superindent (eq. to Dy.SP in India) who had led the operation to trap the Kray Twins who were kind of an "underworld dons" in London (during late 60s). From reading the book, what I could make out was that in UK all of the members join as constables and then pick up the ranks (PC, P.Sgt, Insp (eq. SI), Ch.Insp (eq. CI), Supdt. (eq. Dy.SP), Ch.Supdt (eq. SP) and then the Chief Constable/Commander ranks). "Nipper" Read had started off his career as a PC, and then finally made it to the Asst. Chief Constable rank. This is quite different from the system in India, where people join the forces at multiple level in the hierarchy.

The policing system in US seems to be much more complicated, with lots of police agencies thrown in. Every town/city can have its own police force/fire dept. if the town/city can generate the revenue to run the show. The county would also have a similar setup, and so does the state. The State Police would mainly have the training academies, and forensic labs etc. One funny thing which I noticed about policing in US, is the recruiting process and how easily the members can shift jobs. Other than major police forces very few of the depts have the policy of recruiting and training. In many cases people get trained in an academy, check vacancies and apply for jobs in various police departments. And then they can very well quit that police force and take up a job in some other department. This is very different from the system in India where when a man joins the police force it pretty becomes his Mai Baap for the rest of his life. Regarding policing in US, most of my queries were answered by visiting the forums @ http://www.officer.com

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 03 May 2010 09:31

The above is a Wikipedia link, which most probably you would have already seen. Just completed reading the biography of Leonard "Nipper" Read the Det. Superindent (eq. to Dy.SP in India) who had led the operation to trap the Kray Twins who were kind of an "underworld dons" in London (during late 60s). From reading the book, what I could make out was that in UK all of the members join as constables and then pick up the ranks (PC, P.Sgt, Insp (eq. SI), Ch.Insp (eq. CI), Supdt. (eq. Dy.SP), Ch.Supdt (eq. SP) and then the Chief Constable/Commander ranks). "Nipper" Read had started off his career as a PC, and then finally made it to the Asst. Chief Constable rank. This is quite different from the system in India, where people join the forces at multiple level in the hierarchy.

Thanks( again), Sachin-ji.

So, the Brits do not have a IPS type system where 22-23 year olds directly supersede the veterans? This would mean the IPS was a colonial special to ensure Brits directly were above the local natives( however young and inexperienced they were) and we are still blindly aping it?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 03 May 2010 11:53

sum wrote:So, the Brits do not have a IPS type system where 22-23 year olds directly supersede the veterans?

Nope. IPS was the new avatar of the "Imperial Police" (IP) which during the days of the Raj, had all the senior level police officers (earlier it was staffed entirely by British, but later by Anglo-Indians and Indians as well). From Read's book, what I could make out was that in Britain there was a series of exams and courses which serving police men had to take in order to reach the higher ranks. So if a person does not qualify, he would join as a PC and may retire as a Sergeant as well :).

This would mean the IPS was a colonial special to ensure Brits directly were above the local natives( however young and inexperienced they were) and we are still blindly aping it?

Yes. And this is not unique to the policing system only. These existed in the "revenue" system also. The district collector would be from the ICS, but under him there would be the retinue of Tehsildars, village men etc. who were the natives.

One thing in IPS is that the "Probationaries" are given short trainings at the level of PC,HC and SI as well. This is for them to understand the roles and responsibilities at each level. And only after the probation does the IPS officer join the district as the ASP. Sub-Inspectors etc. were from the native population, but would be better educated (and so could read and understand the laws, frame charge sheets etc.). In the olden days the people below this rank would have the bare minimum education, and only employed for the "grunt work". This led to a situation that every single decision/order has to pass through the rank of Sub-Inspector, with the people below him being in the capacity to blindly take orders.

A quick glimpse of how the police functioned during the Raj. From the history of Kerala Police...
Police report on Coffee theft during Transit - Gudallur to Kozhikode - Part 1
Police report on Coffee theft during Transit - Gudallur to Kozhikode - Part 2

Note the short but valid observations made by the superior officer in the letter ;).

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Prasad » 03 May 2010 12:01

In fact, even inthe armed services, a young twenty something person can get in as an officer or a jawan. Isn't it similar?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 03 May 2010 13:16

tsriram wrote:In fact, even inthe armed services, a young twenty something person can get in as an officer or a jawan. Isn't it similar?

Yup...another colonial hangover at work?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 03 May 2010 14:50

tsriram wrote:In fact, even inthe armed services, a young twenty something person can get in as an officer or a jawan. Isn't it similar?

Hmm.. Interesting observation :). The Indian Army's system also closely follows the British system (of the Raj). In England it seems in the past the officers came up from a different class of society (read elite class) than the regular soldiers. And that started the very clear cut distinction of Officers v/s "Other Ranks". In British Indian Army one more "class" was added i.e that of the Viceroy's Commissioned Officers (VCOs) who were considered as a new "class" (not equal with the British officer gentry, but who commanded/accorded more respect and prestige than the regular Johny Sepoy).

Compared to this the system followed in US is totally different, if I am not mistaken. Also US has a more "NCO centric" Armed Forces rather than being "Officer centric".

In the case of the Police what is interesting is that in UK every one joins at the lowest level in the hierarchy and are given oppurtunities to rise upto the top. Where as in Indian police forces the career growth is pretty much stagnated. A PC who puts in 30 years of service, can retire as a Sub-Inspector at the maximum. This is irrespective of the PC's academic qualifications, aptitudes etc. A Sub-Inspector after around 18 years of service becomes an Supdt. of Police (if he does not get a "conferred" IPS by then , he would not be given the independent charge of a Police district).

In US an officer/PC who issues a traffic citation to the road user, jolly well writes up the charge sheet, appears in the court and if required give evidence (if the accused decides to fight it out). Where as in India, a traffic police constable does have no such powers. He can note down the number of the vehicle, put it up to the Sub-Inspector. It is upto the SI to write up a charge sheet and sent it to the court. And if the case is contested the SI has to appear in court and fight it out. And this is when in many cases the PC and the SI have pretty much the same educational qualifications (and understand the written laws). The end result is a fully trained police official with basically no police powers, and another over burdended official who need to meddle with too many things.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 03 May 2010 15:03

Thanks again, Sachin-saar.

One more pooch onlee:
Did the ( unimplemented) Prakash Singh police reforms report try to take care of few of these colonial stuff ( or was it more concerned with operational and not structural matters)?

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 03 May 2010 19:57

sum wrote:Did the ( unimplemented) Prakash Singh police reforms report try to take care of few of these colonial stuff

To be honest, I have no clue on this report :(. Do you have a link to the same, then I can see what are its recommendations. I can then check if I have noticed of any such recommendations being implemented.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby shyamd » 04 May 2010 01:09

Police bureaucracy is extremely big, if the police wants to catch a criminal across state borders, there has to be a joint team of local police and the other state police that needs to be created, so quite often a lot of cases are just left meaning ordinary people cant get justice. Criminals just run across the state and can just usually keep running exploiting this gap.

Only if you have a lot of power can you get cases investigated across state borders. Lots of paper work to be filled, so when joint teams of police forces work on an arrest in another state, remember that it takes a lot of planning and paperwork to arrest a suspect.

Pity on ordinary people and the police officers that have to go through the bureaucracy.

---------------
Suprised at the transparency of Police forces in South India. There are regular public meetings where aam aadmi are called into review and monitor policing in cities with Police Commissioner. But the aam aadmi are usuallly local business elite.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 04 May 2010 09:30

shyamd wrote:Criminals just run across the state and can just usually keep running exploiting this gap.

A kind of full-fledged joint teams on a permenant basis is not required. In many cases ad-hoc teams are formed. It all depends upon the tenacity of the police force in the place where the crime was committed. But what happens is that there are lots of "turf wars" amongst the state police forces. So if one police force knows that the man they want is hiding in another place, they would go their in-cognito, spring an ambush on him, put him inside a vehicle and bring him back. But often this would lead to bad incidents when the local people do not know what is happening. It happened with the Andhra Pradesh Police who decided to whisk away a Naxal leader from Kochi. Local people thought it was a kidnapping attempt and chased the vehicle. AP Police rushed into the nearest police station and identified themselves. Kerala Police decides to have an early morning raid on the house of a person who habitually bought stolen goods. This was in Bangalore, and the man's wife started screaming. Neighbours thought that it was a dacoity attempt and attacked the K.P men.

On a positive side I have also seen good cooperation amongst the police forces as well. There was a dacoity attempt in Thiruvananthapuram. K.P checked up the modus operandi and T.N Police who had a similar case under investigation also helped them out. Both of them knew that they were after the same gang of criminals. And with the help of Maharashtra Police they nabbed the criminals who were a tribal gang operating out of some desolate place in M.H.

But the aam aadmi are usuallly local business elite.

Cant help it :). Police generally announces these meetings well in advance and any body can attend it. Politicians generally make a point to visit, and so do business people. It is an oppurtunity for them to "know" the senior officers. The common people have no inclination to go any where near a police station. Of course, they all would sit in their own living rooms and give lectures on how the police should operate :lol:.

But yes, in South I have noticed very many innovative scheme introduced by the police. In the socialist republic they are also reviving the old "beat system". A police constable and a WPC would be given an area, where they go and meet every house hold and have a chat with them. Both parties share their contact details and the house hold can also share their apprehensions if any. A WPC was purposefully added so that even women folk would not have any hesitation to talk about their problems. In many cases these beat constables have taken this to their hearts and have done more than what is required from them. Pooling in money for destitutes who are ill, settling minor family disputes etc (the police need not bother about all this).

The "Pareto principle" still exists and all these good things generally gets forgotten because some rogue cop some where "takes the law into their own hands" and the entire force lands up with egg on their face.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby ASPuar » 04 May 2010 10:53

All armies have an "officer-NCO-jawan" structure. The British army, the US army, the German army, the Chinese army, the erstwhile Soviet army. ALL armies.

Because armies operate in a strict heirarchical structure.

However, the British were VERY careful, when the police structure was being developed, to ENSURE, that there was no "Officer" class in their police structure. EVERYONE joins as a constable, and there is no lateral entry of any sort.

Having lived in both the US, and the UK, I have seen that this system is followed in both places.

In the US, all policemen join as basic recruits at a police academy. Once they finish, they are appointed as "Sworn peace officers" (though the designation varies, eg patrolman, officer, constable, etc, they are all sworn police officers). From this point, they can work their way up to police chief.

India is still following a colonial system of policing, which is wrong, because we are a democracy, and such structures were formed for the suppression of native populace, and are still doing so.

To Sachins point about mobility between forces in the US, this exists in the UK as well. One can join as a constable with London Met police, but apply to be hired by a different police authority if one wants, with benefits protected.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby shyamd » 04 May 2010 19:00

Sachin, Very interesting thoughts. Thanks. Working on something at the moment and have seen how they operate up close. It can take up to 2 weeks to make a joint team and make the arrest(hopefully in BLR). Sometimes you may have intel that they are in x location, even a week is too long.

What about terror cases, are there exceptions where joint investigations can be speeded up? We have seen cases where different state police units turn up at airports to arrest suspects. Gujarat OCTOPUS turns up at Hyderabad to arrest a terror suspect recently.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sum » 04 May 2010 19:04

^^ Even the recent Hindoo extremist arrests in MP were done unilaterally by Raj police without informing MP police.

The local police station SHO was informed of the presence of Raj police in their state and their purpose of being there just as the suspects were being picked up!!!

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 05 May 2010 09:15

shyamd wrote:What about terror cases, are there exceptions where joint investigations can be speeded up?

No clue on that. I guess NIA was specifically set up with this purpose in mind. NIA can smoothly handle terrorism cases which pans across states. Also NIA would have police officers from various state police forces on deputation which makes liaison with respective state forces also simpler.

sum wrote:The local police station SHO was informed of the presence of Raj police in their state and their purpose of being there just as the suspects were being picked up!!!

This is because of the "turf war" issues. The local police may have got informed because the out side state police may have felt that they may land up in trouble. The out side state police invariably has a feeling that if the the local police is informed they would leak the information, or try to take credit of the entire job ;).

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 06 May 2010 10:47

Use of narco analysis, brain-mapping unconstitutional: Court
News report from the Hindu. A verdict which would have a sizeable effect on police investigations all across the country.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Ameet » 02 Jun 2010 21:59

India has massive police shortage

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... DPLyjR6wdw

"The total number of sanctioned posts in all ranks is about 2.1 million and of these about 335,000 posts are vacant," said the minister, who is under pressure to deploy the armed forces to battle the Maoists.

Chidambaram launched a coordinated offensive against the Maoists in November last year, involving more than 60,000 paramilitary and state police. The operation has produced few tangible results and Maoist attacks have stepped up.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Tanaji » 03 Jun 2010 17:39

http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/ ... radise.htm

Pune is becoming a crime hot bed. Not trying to make this a crime blotter but, its the same story as always:
According to a response to an RTI query, there is one policeman for every 700 citizens. For a city with a population of over 55 lakh, there are just over 8,300 police personnel. Incidentally, the strength has risen only marginally since 2000 when the force had about 6,400 members.


Even as the cops would like to take refuge behind official figures and point to a downward trend since 2006 -- there were 62 rape cases registered in 2006, 50 in 2007, 55 in 2008 and 53 in 2009 -- Moghe knows the truth lies beyond the statistics.

She draws one's attention to a Pune police circular that prevented people from registering FIRs in local chowkies. This rendered the local chowky almost useless because you had to go to a police station to lodge a complaint.


Quite strange when the general trend is to make the police more acceptable and the choky, the focal point.

She says, "Many studies show that very often the police try and dissuade the complainant. In the Hinjewadi case, when it was reported that the victim had returned home, the constable enquired if it was at all necessary to file a FIR since the young woman had now been found!"


:-? :x that woman had been raped!

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 24 Jul 2010 19:40

In the "socialist republic" another controversial order has come in. The High Court has ruled against the K.P practise of police officers checking motor vehicles and for a violation issuing a "summons/notice" on the spot. The Hon. HC feels that Sub-Inspectors are punching above their weights and taking up a job reserved for a magsitrate court. A Sub-Inspector (who did this) was asked to personally appear and explain why he did it. He stated that it was based on a 1972 Kerala Govt. Order. The petty case charged by him was thrown out.

The current practise is that when a petty case (less than INR 1000 fine) is charged, the accused is given a "notice" asking him to appear at the jurisdictional magistrate court. The notice (along with details of the offence) would be given by a police sub-inspector. This was conveinient for all parties concerned.
1. Less paper work for the magistrate's court
2. The accused knows the offences, and the date to appear at the court
3. He can pay up the fine by Money Order, using an advocate or come prepared to fight it out in the court.

If the rules get changed based on the Hon.HC ruling, then
1. Every single petty case charged by the jurisdictional police stations would land up at the magistrate's court. The magistrate have to check the basics of the case, and ask a notice to be issued.
2. The notice lands up back at the PS, and policemen would have to be detailed to serve the notice. This would be fun, as if the case is charged at say Kalamassery (near Kochi) PS, and the accused stay at Kasaragod, the notice have to get served at Kasaragod. Cops would have a fun time organising the logistics.
3. If the accused do not get the notice on time, and fail to appear arrest warrants gets issued. It would be fun for the accused, when he notices a police party at his home to arrest him for a petty case :). The gossip-crazy Mallus would also land up in large numbers with their mobile phone to record the arrest and taking-away of an individual from the locality.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 05 Aug 2010 09:45

One initiative from the Kerala Govt. and the Kerala Police.
Student Police Cadet (SPC) scheme
This is a scheme in which school students help the police in law enforcement. The cadets are given minimum law enforcement powers especially during functions like Youth Festivals when a large number of students have to be guided/controlled. The idea is to have a cadet scheme which works on NCC-like discipline and NSS-like volunteering attitude. The cadets also attend mandatory training sessions, parades and camps.

The local police authorities are to help the police cadets and every school would also have a teacher nominated for this scheme. The camps for long duration would be held in Armed Reserve Camps or at the Police Academy.

Over all I felt that this is a good scheme to have. NCC had its own merits, but being staffed by the Army the focus was always Army-centric. NCC in many cases could not even be of assistance to the state police for stuff like election duties. Student Police Cadet scheme would encourage students to know more about the state police, a group of people whom they would intereact more on a daily basis than soldiers.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Avinash R » 05 Aug 2010 11:07

Delhi Police uses Facebook to track lawless drivers
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/inf ... 248752.cms

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby SRoy » 16 Aug 2010 12:45

sinha wrote:what happened to CCTNS - apart from marketing blah blah seems to be hearing nothing much. SRoy - any updates? has the work on new system started or still doing rounds of procurement.

what is the first round of money being used for? Is it left to states to decide?

http://ncrb.nic.in/one.jpg


Some updates on CCTNS...apparently some funds are available. As people maybe aware bulk of the money is to be utilized by state polices.

No concrete work definition by state police forces. They simply don't have experts in these area.

Most polices are simply not able to define requirements. Take for example C4i types systems...they are dependent on vendors for consultation. This has lead to manipulations....our top 5 desi IT are big time in this. Whether they have implemented a C4i or not doesn't matter.

Pacqui tactics in full display. Soap and oil folks will grease up a state police brass. The state police in question will not release a full C4i scale RFP. Instead they procure systems under 50/60 lakh value (doesn't require a RFP to be floated) in piecemeal basis...GIS...AVLS...DIAL 100...CCTV and so on. Soap and oil folks pick these up or pass them on to their partners. The game goes on.

Live example...we bid for the first ever C4i systems. Went in for the PoC. Came on top with all use cases. Competitors involved 3 of the usual top 5 suspects + 1 PSU.

Except us all of them had to rope in some furrin firm to meet requirements. We passed the PoC in one go and given a thumbs up the NTRO guys evaluating the demo.

One among the top 5 suspect has been declared L1 (despite the fact they could barely demonstrate 20 of the 35 use cases).

Our HQ decided to pull out in sheer disgust and has decided not to challenge.

We last hear that the C4i system in case is not likely to meet all requirements as the "chosen" vendor has expressed "technical constraints" to meet them.

>>

I feel sorry for the cops getting blown left, right and centre by reds and greens, but I've stopped feeling any sympathy for them.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby sinha » 16 Aug 2010 13:01

Sroy - I am konphoozed - wasnt the center/NCRB supposed to define the requirements for all-in-one base minimum app which will get rolled out to all the states. How come states are involved?

I can see from CCTNS progress tracker here - http://ncrb.nic.in/CCTNSProgress_Tracker_060810.pdf - that but for 4 states no one has even asked for greens so far (is that what u r hinting at)?

on the rest - what were you expecting anyway? The particular case study on NTRO - it is quite well known - wonder how come press never came to know of it.

I wonder whether these chaps talking to BeeBee actually have any technical knowhow to figure out what is acceptable and what is not.

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Postby Sachin » 16 Aug 2010 13:03

CCTNS - Crime and Criminal Tracking Network System. If we are talking about that, then I read in a report that the "Vegetable Oil Co." have got a deal signed. The Indian division of the said company may be implementing it. This network is a must for the day, but I feel the central govt. should not leave it with the state governments and their police forces. The drive should come from the top.

The system needs to be a fairly generic one. Each state force have its own way of record keeping, so we need to come up with use cases which are applicable for policing at large. Given a free hand every state police would come up with requirements which they would claim as the most important ones. Things would start going down the slippery slope from here itself.

There are organisations like BPRD which are for researching areas of police improvement. Let them collect the requirements, come up with a kind of 'must have', 'good to have' feature list and coordinate with private vendors. The so called IT majors (and colonels and brigadiers) can then be asked to execute this as a project, which they all claims to be experts in. The various state police forces need only get involved when it comes to user acceptance, or proto type testing.

IMHOs etc. added in.


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