India and the Global Warming Debate

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Raghavendra » 22 Aug 2010 10:31

'Daily Telegraph' apologises to RK Pachauri http://ibnlive.in.com/news/london-newsp ... ?from=trhs

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby enqyoob » 22 Aug 2010 13:30

What Global Warming? I think Oirope has completely lost all apetite for Green and Carbon Credits and all that stuff, since their manufacturing base did the "Whoosh" sucking sound on its way to China.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Johann » 13 Oct 2010 21:10

While I refuse to deny the existence of human-driven climate change, I do agree with those like Michael Crighton that the 'debate' has become coercive and pseudo-scientific. What is disturbing is how this attitude has spread from climate specialists to the larger scientific community. Here is the letter of resignation of Harold Lewis, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the UCSB to the President of the American Physical Society; his description of the ways in which open discussion were shut down against the APS's own rules are depressing to say the least. Regardless of who is right on climate change, science loses when this sort of thing goes on at the top.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/james ... long-life/

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 07 Nov 2010 19:02

After the Copenhagen global warming fraud came a cropper (and the elites lost out on the juicy global carbon tax regime as a major financial prop for the NWO), not only had the terminology "global warming" been surreptitiously replaced by "climate change" in all major media to dilute the stink of the fraud, but the elites are becoming more desperate in trying to raise the demon from the ashes again and are bordering on eco-fascism.

Check this youtube video of a climate change infomercial from 10:10 (a global warming activist organization), which it had to take down from the website and issue an apology following a huge backlash. Blood & Gore :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH71XCmsbCc&feature=related

After climategate, some are calling this the splattergate :wink:

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 09 Nov 2010 14:19

Global Cooling and the New World Order -- James Delingpole
Bilderberg. Whether you believe it’s part of a sinister conspiracy which will lead inexorably to one world government or whether you think it’s just an innocent high-level talking shop, there’s one thing that can’t be denied: it knows which way the wind is blowing. (Hat tips: Will/NoIdea/Ozboy)

At its June meeting in Sitges, Spain (unreported and held in camera, as is Bilderberg’s way), some of the world’s most powerful CEOs rubbed shoulders with notable academics and leading politicians. They included: the chairman of Fiat, the Irish Attorney General Paul Gallagher, the US special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke, Henry Kissinger, Bill Gates, Dick Perle, the Queen of the Netherlands, the editor of the Economist…. Definitely not Z-list, in other words.

Which is what makes one particular item on the group’s discussion agenda so tremendously significant. See if you can spot the one I mean:

    The 58th Bilderberg Meeting will be held in Sitges, Spain 3 – 6 June 2010. The Conference will deal mainly with Financial Reform, Security, Cyber Technology, Energy, Pakistan, Afghanistan, World Food Problem, Global Cooling :-o , Social Networking, Medical Science, EU-US relations.

Yep, that’s right. Global Cooling.

Which means one of two things.

Either it was a printing error.

Or the global elite is perfectly well aware that global cooling represents a far more serious and imminent threat to the world than global warming, but is so far unwilling to admit it except behind closed doors.

Let me explain briefly why this is a bombshell waiting to explode.

Almost every government in the Western world from the USA to Britain to all the other EU states to Australia and New Zealand is currently committed to a policy of “decarbonisation.” This in turn is justified to (increasingly sceptical) electorates on the grounds that man-made CO2 is a prime driver of dangerous global warming and must therefore be reduced drastically, at no matter what social, economic and environmental cost. In the Eighties and Nineties, the global elite had a nice run of hot weather to support their (scientifically dubious) claims. But now they don’t. Winters are getting colder. Fuel bills are rising (in the name of combating climate change, natch). The wheels are starting to come off the AGW bandwagon. Ordinary people, resisting two decades of concerted brainwashing, are starting to notice.

All this, of course, spells big trouble for the global power elite. As well as leading to food shortages (as, for example, it becomes harder to grow wheat in northerly latitudes; adding, of course, to such already-present disasters as biofuels and the rejection of GM), global cooling is going to find electorates increasingly angry that they have been sold a pup.

Our fuel bills have risen inexorably; our countryside, our views and our property values have been ravaged by hideous wind farms; our holidays have been made more expensive; our cost of living has been driven up by green taxes; our freedoms have been curtailed in any number of pettily irritating ways from what kind of light bulbs we are permitted to use to how we dispose of our rubbish. And to what end? If man-made global warming was really happening and really a problem we might possibly have carried on putting up with all these constraints on our liberty and assaults on our income. But if it turns out to have been a myth……

Well then, all bets are off.

The next few years are going to be very interesting. Watch the global power elite squirming to reposition itself as it slowly distances itself from Anthropogenic Global Warming (”Who? Us? No. We never thought of it as more than a quaint theory…”), and tries to find new ways of justifying green taxation and control. (Ocean acidification; biodiversity; et al). You’ll notice sly shifts in policy spin. In Britain, for example, Chris “Chicken Little” Huhne’s suicidal “dash for wind” will be re-invented as a vital step towards “energy security.” There will be less talk of “combatting climate change” and more talk of “mitigation”. You’ll hear enviro-Nazis like Obama’s Science Czar John Holdren avoid reference to “global warming” like the plague, preferring the more reliably vague phrase “global climate disruption.”

And you know what the worst thing is? If we allow them to, they’re going to get away with it.

Our duty as free citizens over the next few years is to make sure that they don’t.

Al Gore, George Soros, Bill Gates, Carol Browner, John Holdren, Barack Obama, David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Tim Yeo, Michael Mann, Ted Turner, Robert Redford, Phil Jones, Chris Huhne, John Howard (yes really, he was supposed to be a conservative, but he was the man who kicked off Australia’s ETS), Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Yvo de Boer, Rajendra Pachauri….The list of the guilty goes on and on. Each in his own way – and whether through ignorance, naivety idealism or cynicism, it really doesn’t matter for the result has been the same – has done his bit to push the greatest con-trick in the history of science, forcing on global consumers the biggest bill in the history taxation, using “global warming” as an excuse to extend the reach of government further than it has ever gone before.

It is time we put a stop to this. In the US, the Tea Party movement is showing us the way. We need to punish these dodgy politicians at the ballot box. We need to ensure that those scientists guilty of malfeasance are, at the very least thrown out of the jobs which we taxpayers have been funding these last decades. We need to ensure that corporatist profiteers are no longer able to benefit from the distortion and corruption of the markets which result from green regulation.

We need a “Global Warming” Nuremberg.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby geeth » 09 Dec 2010 12:34

News is ticking in that Brazil and South Africa has agreed for legally binding emissions cuts and our beloved Jairam Ramesh has gone beyond his brief and added words in his statement which could be construed as acceptance by India also for legally binding cuts.

News channels say this is contrary to the promise he (Jairam) gave in parliament that India won't bow to pressure on legally binding cuts and is also against the decision of the Cabinet on this matter.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby geeth » 09 Dec 2010 12:43

http://www.samachar.com/Cancun-setback-India-China-isolated-kmjkJIchcij.html


Speaking at an open meeting here, Ramesh told delegates that "all countries must take on binding commitments under appropriate legal form."

Later, the minister indicated that he raised this point to assure countries close to India like Nepal and Bangladesh that New Delhi was committed to fulfilling its domestic commitments.

"We will honor these," he said, noting that India was not ready to reflect these in an international agreement yet.

The present discussion has also raised questions about what constitutes the "bindingness" of a treaty.

India, for instance, argues that consensual decisions taken under annual climate conferences can be considered binding.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby amit » 09 Dec 2010 13:05

geeth wrote:News is ticking in that Brazil and South Africa has agreed for legally binding emissions cuts and our beloved Jairam Ramesh has gone beyond his brief and added words in his statement which could be construed as acceptance by India also for legally binding cuts.

News channels say this is contrary to the promise he (Jairam) gave in parliament that India won't bow to pressure on legally binding cuts and is also against the decision of the Cabinet on this matter.


Stupid idiocy on the part of Jairam Ramesh. This guy is becoming a liability and IMO should be removed from his post. You can't function as a (western-funded) NGO would and still be part of the government. Maybe he likes James Cameroon but that doesn't mean Ramesh has the mandate to say the whole of India to likes him.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhischekcc » 09 Dec 2010 16:55

Jairam cannot be removed as he is Sonia's pet.

Tyme for some hypothesis testing:
1. This guy keeps selling India's interests off to the west
2. His biggest supporter is a western female

Is it possible that this western female is a western agent?

Nah, she is Sonia Desh ki Bow.

How can you even think like that? Don't you know Indian public interest is well protected by honest journalists like Barkha, Vir, etc?

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 09 Dec 2010 21:26

India willing to accept legally binding pact at Cancun

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-willing-to-accept-legally-binding-pact-at-Cancun/articleshow/7070583.cms

The UPA had committed to the Parliament that Indian would not take on any international legally binding commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It was also part of the cabinet decision drawing a clear redline against such a move.

But on last Thursday the cabinet, approved a proposal mooted by Ramesh, altered the non-negotiable line. The cabinet decision now read: India will not take any international legally binding agreement, at the moment.

This opened the window for Ramesh to make this dramatic shift in India's position with his statement, suggesting that while India would not take on commitments right now at Cancun, it could do so anytime in the future.


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 09 Dec 2010 22:52

abhishek_sharma wrote:India willing to accept legally binding pact at Cancun...

OMG, That is a sell out. Traitors?? or Morons?? :evil:

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Dec 2010 02:45

We are not for legally binding emission cuts: Jairam

http://www.hindu.com/2010/12/10/stories/2010121061450100.htm

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Dec 2010 03:21

At climate summit, the real action is behind the scenes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/08/AR2010120806673.html

The developed countries are pushing language for a climate fund that would commit them "to the goal of mobilizing jointly $100 billion a year by 2020." There is a lot of wiggle room in such words as "goal" and "jointly." The least-developed countries want the document to read that wealthy countries such as the United States would "commit to provide 1.5 percent of GDP per year by 2020," a global price tag approaching $600 billion a year.

Shin Yeon-sung, South Korea's ambassador on climate change, said that although many major emerging nations are open to "compiling" their emission pledges as part of an international registry, they become antsy when industrialized countries begin talking about "anchoring" those commitments. The negotiators can spend hours - or days - on these two words.

"Anchoring somehow sounds more legally binding to developing countries," Shin said. "There is consultation going on right now."

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby vera_k » 10 Dec 2010 03:56

What is the constitutional position on this? Seems like Central government is a toothless tiger when it comes to climate change, since many items like electricity generation are part of concurrent schedule.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 10 Dec 2010 13:53

WikiLeaks cables reveal how US manipulated climate accord -- Embassy dispatches show America used spying, threats and promises of aid to get support for Copenhagen accord

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Dec 2010 02:40

India takes step to dilute climate change stand

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-takes-step-to-dilute-climate-change-stand/articleshow/7080060.cms

What will be the outcome of Cancun? The details are still being thrashed out but one thing is certain — when the two-week conference ends, India will have further diluted its stance on climate change negotiations.

The government might justify it as a part of its larger geopolitical need or a pragmatic review of its position or the need to not stand alone, but India is bound to come out by taking another step towards diluting the existing principles of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Bali Action Plan that it fought hard for two decades.

As a developing country negotiator said, "In Bali, India accepted it would carry out mitigation actions. In Copenhagen, it accepted international scrutiny and in Cancun, we have accepted the possibility of legally binding targets. One has to see if by Durban next year, India also accepts absolute emission cuts."

The questions that one would need to ask when the post-summit assessment begins are two-fold. How will these changes in the international climate change stance impact India's economic growth and what did India gain in return for these regressions?

Someone who is a student of international relations might see the climate change game changing in the light of US support for India's candidature to the UN Security Council but the critics of the flexibility that has PM Manmohan Singh's blessings would want to know if the mantra may cost the Indian economy and its poor too much by the time the new global climate deal is concluded.

Till 2009, the government had claimed that emission-reduction targets could wipe out considerable economic growth. At the penultimate day of the Cancun talks, India seemed poised to slip into such targets sooner than one had thought a couple of years ago.

It began by avoiding any kind of mitigation actions, pointing out that it was not the culprit in the first place. This was in the early 90s. It played a difficult balance of closing the bilateral gap with the US while it stuck to a stringent multilateral line at the climate forum.

By the time UPA was in place, the mandate had shifted. The policy shift towards US and the competitive neighbourhood made India dance a tricky step towards the high table, slowly forsaking its role as the leader of the G77 and quickly taking its seat at forums like the G20 and the Major Economies Forum. The climate shift was a package deal, policy wonks suggested, and that giving up on concerns about international scrutiny and bearing costs of a quicker transition to green energy is well worth the gambit.

The UPA is yet to show the cost sheets of this change in its policy climate.


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 11 Dec 2010 06:55

abhishek_sharma wrote:
The climate shift was a package deal, policy wonks suggested, and that giving up on concerns about international scrutiny and bearing costs of a quicker transition to green energy is well worth the gambit.


Why throwing money at today's clean-energy technologies could keep us from discovering tomorrow's.
BY VINOD KHOSLA

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/12/10/long_shots

Many argue that since we already have some technology today, we should simply deploy it. I believe doing this alone runs the risk of spending a significant amount of money on infrastructure that will require continued subsidies to survive. By diving into ambitious deployment efforts -- for instance, massively scaling wind farms or today’s geologic carbon capture and sequestration technology -- too early, we will be yoking ourselves to a carbon-reduction plan that is massively expensive to build and maintain.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 13 Dec 2010 22:53

Even this year, record cold weather dogs global warming summit. :P
Irony alert: The unusually chilly global-warming summit

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 14 Dec 2010 15:05


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 25 Dec 2010 11:27

Jairam defends nuancing India's position at Cancun

http://www.hindu.com/2010/12/25/stories/2010122567091800.htm

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 23 Jan 2011 18:48

Great work by Prof. U.R.Rao. Hats off to him!!
Cosmic rays contribute 40 p.c. to global warming: study
Finally some sane voice against the disgusting politics of the nefarious carbon taxes to prop up the NWO, Al's blood and gore, and splattergate. :evil:

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby rohiths » 23 Jan 2011 20:36

“There is a groupthink in climate science today. Anyone who raises alternative climate theories is immediately branded as a climate atheist in an atmosphere of climate evangelists,” he said. “Climate science is incredibly more complex than [developed countries] negotiators make it out to be… Climate science should not be driven by the West. We should not always be dependent on outside reports.”


He has taken a very good PR stand right in the beginning. Anyone who opposes him will turn out to be climate evangelists :mrgreen:

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Bade » 23 Jan 2011 20:42

Read the comments section. Science is not done the way it is done by some prima donnas in India. :-) This is a government report not a science paper, hence it will not get the applause even if it deserves it. From the comments made even by climate atheists people are not ready to buy this as something never done elsewhere before.

I can understand GoI stand from our pov, and it should be so perhaps. But it does not mean quality science has shown the path to the absolute truth.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 16 Feb 2011 12:01

Here's what may be the reason behind the extreme climate events (and other strange stuff), not the silly man-made C02 which is being promoted for carbon taxes. Human trials and travails (read Al Gore's CO2) amount to nothing in the cosmic order of things.
1. Magnetic Polar Shifts Causing Massive Global Superstorms
2. Magnetic North Pole Shifts, Forces Runway Closures at Florida Airport
3. Earth's magnetic pole shift unleashing poisonous space clouds linked to mysterious bird deaths

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby devesh » 17 Feb 2011 03:49

there are two different aspects to the Global Warming debate. one is if Warming is happening or not? the second is what do humans have to do with it?

on the first question, i completely agree that it is happening. on the second, i say that human influence is negligible to non-existent.

the earth has always gone through periods of warming and cooling. the cyclical nature of global climate has been the constant for millennia. there were periods of global warming in the last 1000 years when industrialization hadn't even begun yet and when the world population was exponentially lower that it is now.

and as for the whole carbon is evil non-sense.....it's just that. a bunch of non-sense. it is a piece of anti-human, self-hating, and self-loathing ideology rooted in the genocidal belief that humanity is evil. to claim that carbon is evil, is nothing short of preposterous. human breathe out carbon every second of their lives. to claim carbon as evil, is to claim that humanity was a mistake that should have never happened.

the whole carbon-tax phenomenon that has grown around the global warming theory has a lot of parallels to the early 20th century rise of Eugenics and race-science.

anyways, good to be back on BRF again. i lost my old account due to prolonged absence.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby abhishek_sharma » 22 Aug 2011 08:41

Most Himalayan Glaciers Retreating; 21% Stable or Expanding, Survey Finds

NEW DELHI—A new study by the Indian Space Research Organization and the Geological Survey of India in Kolkata reports that although 21% of India's Himalayan glaciers are showing no increase in melt rate, the majority are receding. The pattern is a worldwide phenomenon and part of a natural cyclic process, according to a statement from India's environment minister, Jayanthi Natarajan. Her statement surprised many observers in that it did not attribute the glaciers' retreat to climate change.

The new results come from the "Snow and Glacier Studies" project, undertaken with government support by the Space Applications Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad. Completed in 2010, the satellite-based survey took an inventory of the snow cover and glacier extent across glaciated regions of the Indus, Ganga, and Brahmaputra River basins. Speaking in Parliament on 8 August, Natarajan said the 5-year research project monitored 2767 glaciers and found that 2184 were retreating, 435 were advancing, and 148 showed no change.

"There is no doubt that the general health of the Himalayan glaciers is worsening, but the truth is incredibly complex," says India's former environment minister Jairam Ramesh. Last year, Ramesh locked horns with the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change over IPCC's exaggerated forecast of future glacier melting. The panel's 2007 report said that Himalayan glaciers "are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate." IPCC later acknowledged that this was an error.

It may be difficult to forecast glacier size, but some researchers are now concerned that the melt may create unstable lakes and threaten villages below. G. M. Bhat, a glacier expert in the Department of Geology at the University of Jammu in India told The Asian Age that an increasing number of such lakes were forming due to rising temperature. The article reads, "If these lakes breach their banks (often formed from loose Morain), the floods can cause devastation in downstream areas." Andreas Schild, director of the Nepal-based International Centre for Integrated Mountain Development, says about 15% of the lakes could be in the possible danger zone, according to the Hindustan Times.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 22 Sep 2011 09:52

Get a load of this!! :mrgreen:
Aliens may destroy humanity to protect other civilisations, say scientists : The Guardian, Thursday 18 August 2011
Is this pure desperation at scare-mongering to get carbon-taxes, or what!!

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby sumishi » 26 Oct 2011 21:21


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Klaus » 23 Nov 2011 08:04

British university hit by new leak ahead of talks.

The university said in a statement the emails did not appear to be the result of a new breach, but appeared to have been stolen two years ago and held back until now "to cause maximum disruption" to the imminent UN climate talks next week.

If that is confirmed, the timing and nature of the leak would follow the pattern set by the so-called "Climategate" emails, which caught prominent scientists stonewalling critics and discussing ways to keep opponents' research out of peer-reviewed journals.


Although their context could not be determined, the excerpts appeared to show climate scientists talking in conspiratorial tones about ways to promote their agenda and freeze out those they disagreed with. There were several mentions of "the cause" and discussions of ways to shield emails from freedom of information requests.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Adrija » 04 Dec 2011 22:40


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2015 06:00

http://warmingworld.newscientistapps.co ... LOBAL-hoot

So, see the red zones.. +3 degrees is a sure melt! no more polar bears.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby member_28921 » 23 Jan 2015 18:57

A couple of statistics on the matter under discussion - my apologies if someone has posted these earlier. Relevance is because of Obama's visit to India, and there could be questions on India's position on environment/carbon-emission issues. These might be useful to put our position in perspective in case of a discussion.
1. India with 17.5% of the world's population accounts for 5.5% of the global carbon emissions. The US with 4.4% of the population accounts for 16.9% of the global carbon dioxide emissions. China, which has 19% of the world's population accounts for 27% of the carbon dioxide currently being emitted into the atmosphere. So we are not responsible for the carbon that's been added over the past 100 years, and we aren't responsible for the carbon that's being added now.
2. An average Indian's annual carbon dioxide emission is 1.5 tons - corresponding figures for an average Chinese and an American are 6.96 tons and 18.5 tons respectively - 4.5 times and 12 times our numbers. And even from this position, the Chinese have only agreed to 'try and cap' their emissions by 2030. Expecting India to 'cap emissions' before that - even as so many of our people live in poverty and without access to modern sources of energy is morally indefensible.
3. India can and must try to use renewable forms of energy such as solar, but a few facts are worth mentioning:
- Cost of 1 mw of coal power capacity is Rs 5-6 crore, cost of 1 mw of solar power capacity is Rs 21 crore (based on a recent announcement from Reliance Power).
- A coal based power plant can operate at 70-80% load factor. A solar power plant will operate at a fraction of this figure, so we need 3-4 mw of solar power to match 1 mw of coal power.
This means we are talking of a capital cost differential of almost 10 times. Given that India is finding it hard to make requisite investments in roads, power plants, transmission etc because of a shortage of funds, not sure where the money for so much solar energy is going to come from. At best, solar energy can provide a part of our growing energy needs, but the bulk will still have to come from coal, hydro and nuclear power.

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Theo_Fidel » 23 Jan 2015 19:40

India's carbon emissions are a rounding error and not a lot should be expected of India at this point. Maybe later. That said India is also one of the most vulnerable to sea level flooding due to our long low coast line. No only that folks like the Maldives and Lakshwadeep will soon need a second home. Guess where they will be going....

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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby Neshant » 30 Mar 2015 02:37

Global warming theory is falling apart with many record breaking cold temperatures over the last 2 years.

John L. Casey Interview - The Coming Cold Crisis 2015


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Re: India and the Global Warming Debate

Postby SaiK » 24 Feb 2016 23:33



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