Indian Roads Thread

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 12 Sep 2012 15:19

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dyna ... 06249g.jpg
Road maintenance and repair is one thing, but road operation and usage is entirely another thing. Why do roads in desh does not look like roads? There are many reasons.. people don't get it. It does not cost big money to be clean.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 12 Sep 2012 22:34

Someone said traffic in Delhi was more upscale. Heres why by the way. 2-wheelers are banned on Delhi Gurgaon expressway. Well done. Should be implemented on all expressways. Simply too dangerous.

http://dgexpressway.com/dos-donts.htm

1. Commuters, please do not over speed on the expressway
2. Buses do not stop on the expressway to pick or drop passengers
3. Pedestrians, please do not at any time attempt to cross the expressway except at designated points. This is critical for your personal safety.
4. Two wheelers, three wheelers and auto rickshaws are strictly not allowed on the expressway and should use the service lane at all times. Offenders are likely to be prosecuted.
5. Please do not attempt to cross the Toll Gate when the barrier is down. This could lead to serious injury.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Singha » 13 Sep 2012 08:58

the vast distances and cold/dusty weather of delhi, plus risk of street crime means a lot of people travel from outlying areas in personal cars or buses, much more so than blr where bikers rule the roost.
even within nai dilli limits there are much less proportion of bikes than cars.

compared to delhi, blr esp the job oriented magnet areas are tiny in comparison.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby vina » 13 Sep 2012 09:50

Aditya V wrote:Nowadays, people think Chennai to Bengaluru or Tirchi can be done non stop.

Indeed it can. There is nothing technically that stops you from doing so. The tyres are designed for continous rating for a given speed and so are the car's engines and systems (engines, brakes etc).

What makes you stop and take a break is human endurance.. The most common I hear is from the kid on the booster seat in the front passenger .."Appa.. su sooo" or from the back, wifey.." Oh, why dont we stop at that McDonald's /Cafe Coffe Day past Hosur and get something to eat ? Would you like Burger baby ?", and the younger one strapped into the car seat at the back making a ruckus if he isn't asleep.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Singha » 13 Sep 2012 14:04

we made it to outskirts of sriperumbudur nonstop...before hunger claimed us.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby vishvak » 13 Sep 2012 18:48

Just a tidbit of info. There is something called nitrogen gas filling facility available at gas depots. Nitrogen in tyre instead of just air is better for cars, or heard so.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Gus » 13 Sep 2012 18:59

^ very few stations carry that. And it will take a while for you to empty all your tires and then fill it up with Nitrogen. Not worth the benefits, unless you live near such a station.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Sep 2012 02:29

nakul wrote:Here is something I have seen common to Indians & Americans. While most NRIs crib about Indian driving style when comparing to massan drivers, Americans (who have been to Germany, Austria) do the same about their countrymen comparing them to Europe.
I think comparing Indian roads and driving conditions to EU and USA is just moronic. However, I am convinced that the American system is filled with morons. Hate driving on the roads here. EU is blessed on this score.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby MN Kumar » 17 Sep 2012 19:34

vina wrote:
Aditya V wrote:Nowadays, people think Chennai to Bengaluru or Tirchi can be done non stop.

Indeed it can. There is nothing technically that stops you from doing so. The tyres are designed for continous rating for a given speed and so are the car's engines and systems (engines, brakes etc).

What makes you stop and take a break is human endurance.. The most common I hear is from the kid on the booster seat in the front passenger .."Appa.. su sooo" or from the back, wifey.." Oh, why dont we stop at that McDonald's /Cafe Coffe Day past Hosur and get something to eat ? Would you like Burger baby ?", and the younger one strapped into the car seat at the back making a ruckus if he isn't asleep.


Yes its doable with good roads. I did a 5hr 520kms non stop Blr-Hyd.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Sep 2012 10:20

Well I guess that depends on Vehicles and Tyres, I know Singha Sir does it on Civic, MN Kumar & Vina what car do you have, Based on my personal driving experience with my accent, swift before that and my father's ANHC, FIL's Nissan Micra, they need the break every 200km to restore Braking, tyre performance to a level where I feel they are comfortable.

In my Friends Maruti SX4, fitted with 16 inch 225mm tyres, this was not a problem and we drove Ooty to Bengaluru last year with a 5 min break.

The pick up in the SX4 however, sucked big time due to these extra wide tyres but braking and grip were very good. But this was a boon on the Mysore Bengaluru Highway at Night were those triple speed breakers are there all over the place.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 18 Sep 2012 16:30

make good roads and it shall expose the weakness of these dabba cars now sold in desh - hyndai, swift etc.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Pratyush » 20 Sep 2012 11:04

Gus wrote:
Pratyush wrote: When he left national Highway the last 50 kms or so. Things went to hell. That drive took almost 30 hrs. Primarily on account of the condition of the road.


30? I am hoping its a typo. That's a day and more.




Yes, it was 3 instead of 30.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Pratyush » 20 Sep 2012 11:14

I have one non stop 280 Km, in a 2004 model M 800 in 3 hrs and 15 minutes on a consistent basis on the Delhi Jaipur Highway. Did not feel any drop in performance of the brake and the tires. But that may be because the last 40 Km or so was done at under 50 KPH.

However, my Ritz diesel has done a 1000 KM in a day and not suffered any breaking issues. Recently I did 200 Kms in about 90 Minutes and the breaking was still pretty good. But the next day the car had to visit the service center for routine servicing after 30000 Kms and they changed the break shoes. :((

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Sep 2012 11:56

Well I learned my lesson 8 years ago after having a flat at a speed of 150KM while driving from Dubai to Muscat at place called Bharka after 350KM non stop.

Part of it was my fault as I had put a tube in a tubless tyre as the tubless tyre nozzle was gone and a replacement was not available just before the trip.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby neerajb » 20 Sep 2012 12:58

vishvak wrote:Just a tidbit of info. There is something called nitrogen gas filling facility available at gas depots. Nitrogen in tyre instead of just air is better for cars, or heard so.


Isn't 71% of air nitrogen? Read that the oxygen in air escapes over time from tyres thereby reducing the pressure/ oxidation of tyre compunds etyadi. Makes me wonder, why go to the specialized filling stations for nitrogen, keep topping up the tyres with air and eventually it should contain nitrogen only (oxygen will escape, going by the aforementioned theory).

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Sep 2012 14:26

Vikrant- air is 78% nitrogen, those filling stations give you 95% Nitrogen.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby neerajb » 20 Sep 2012 14:39

Aditya_V wrote:Vikrant- air is 78% nitrogen, those filling stations give you 95% Nitrogen.


Sorry typo. So why pay 10-20 or whatever INR/tyre for 95% nitrogen when you are getting ~80% nitrogen for free. :)

Cheers....

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Sep 2012 14:42

Thats why I never paid and filled Nitrogen

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Vasu » 21 Sep 2012 14:38

Poor UPeeA governmint. It has to part with 2,295 crore of money that it could have used to feed a politician. :(

9 road projects of Rs 11600cr get nod

Government on Thursday approved nine road projects, which are estimated to cost around Rs 11,600 crore and to be executed by state governments on public private partnership (PPP) mode. These projects, which add up to 1,226 km, are at an advance stage of bidding in Andhra Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

The finance ministry provides 20% of the total project cost, and another 20% assistance comes from the highways ministry to make these ventures financially viable in the form of viability gap funding (VGF), which was devised by the Centre in 2005. The finance ministry has approved Rs 2,295 crore under VGF and Rs 500 crore will be disbursed this fiscal.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 24 Sep 2012 21:15

Image
How in the fking world one could have roads at 2 inches thickness?? this is banana republic of India at helm. It is high time people demand good infrastructure.. Any religious lord/god will not spare the aam public ignoring corruption in infrastructure.

One feet of concrete is required for all roads, considering our population and traffic. minimum and mandatory.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Bade » 24 Sep 2012 23:23

A two feet long gaping hole showed up in one of the new NHAI built bridge in Kochi (ICTT road), which caught the wheel of a car. Shoddy construction is rampant. The bridge is only less than a year or so old. I traveled through the same road just last month, and it was a mess. This was built keeping in mind the heavy load truck traffic from Vallarpadam to NH47/17.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 25 Sep 2012 02:14

Either our standards are poor, or non existence.. and our policy is nil and none cares. shame on all road users not complaining. if people start complaining, then things will change. complain should be for not fixing the roads, but changing the way we build roads.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby putnanja » 25 Sep 2012 02:37

With Bangalore corporation limits, the roads are not built to last. I have seen new roads being laid. They flatten the strip, put stones on it. Run it over with a bulldozer so that it stays flattened. They then put a layer of tar and small stones (jalli in kannada :) ), make it flat, and then finally a fine layer on top of it and flatten it.

There is no proper drainage system to drain the rain water too. If it rains anything more than a drizzle, the rain water seeps into the road and every year during monsoons, there will be huge potholes on the roads.

The corporation then calls for tender every year to re-lay the roads, and the officials and contractors make good money. The same story repeats every year.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Vasu » 25 Sep 2012 14:25

According to a World Bank report from June 2011, three common types of misconducts in road construction are collusion, fraudulent implementation and false documentation, and these happen across the developing world. Needless to say, I am sure everybody will agree that all three exist in gigantic forms in India. In fact, the cover of this report features a Tata truck in India.

And like mentioned already, public anger is limited to lots of hang wringing and cursing the government. Its a huge business opportunity for contractors, politicians and businessmen, and they protect their turf fiercely. Satyendra Dubey comes to mind readily.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Pratyush » 25 Sep 2012 15:13

^^^

The problem is not the standard of the road as designed. The problem is conception & implementation of the project. You have a Sarita Vihar Metro station in Delhi. In one day of rains the road disappeared and was replaced with craters that would swallow the whole car. The same is the case with the stretch in front of Apollo Hospital Mathura road.

The problem was water logging. Why could the road builders not create adequate drainage for the section where they know that water-logging was likely.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Zynda » 25 Sep 2012 15:51

Newly asphalted roads with Blr Corporation limits degrade and become unusable in less than 5 months. A lot of internal understanding between the contractors and officials happen in implementing the tender. Back in 09, when they were asphalting the stretch of road in front of my house, we found out the tender calls for 2" thick asphalt layer but the actual thickness would not exceed .75".

They don't even scrape off the existing worn out asphalt, make the surface neat and then lay a new one. Just pour asphalt over the existing one and try to flatten it. A lot of times the new roads still preserve the undulations from the previous one due to the above.

India is at least 20 yrs behind developed countries when it comes to road surface (the one which we interact with daily and thus hard to avoid getting all worked up about)

SaiK, the situation will not improve. Perhaps you should factor all these while making a decision to R2I :)

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Singha » 25 Sep 2012 16:04

we have the processes and technology, but corruption between the oversight people and contractors destroys all good intentions in the "last mile".

case in point is the chain of flyovers on the BLR ORR. some are good, some are passable and some are downright disgrace like a couple near KR Puram. from day1 they have undulations and problems.

the way they build bypass and service roads during flyover construction is also a disgrace. flyovers take years, when using prefab pieces like the silk board and yelehanka expways would do it much safer and quicker. a law should be passed against the antique way of casting flyovers in-place. also having a footprint as wide as the 4 lanes means the service roads below are narrow disgrace. the graceful V-shaped supports of the prefab thing would leave ample room below for clean n wide service roads. :evil:

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Dileep » 25 Sep 2012 17:05

The Kerala PWD still follows the 20mm thick chipping carpet for small roads, and 40mm chipping carpet for highways. This standard is designed when the heavy vehicles were, like 3 tonnes, and the peak traffic would be, like 50 car unit per hour.

Recently the City of Kochi (one of the most incompetent administrations in the world) was asked to fix some roads so that traffic could be diverted through them while an ROB is rebuilt. They were asked to re-pave them in 100mm BM/BC.

The babus sitting at the 'centre of universe' objected. The spec for city roads is 20mm chipping carpet, they insisted. The best the city can go for is 40mm, by declaring that the road is a highway! "Look at the audacity!" they might have thought. "Only the capital deserves good roads!". The 'centre of universe' already got a huge city roads improvement programme that gave them some great roads. No one knows what happened to the RIP for Kochi. Maybe it is RIP in files!!

The Kochi Metro Limited said "Balls", and took a letter from the mayor asking themselves to re-pave the road. They did it in BM/BC, and even after the rains, those roads are in fantastic condition.

The main road that I commute had been in great shape for the past five years, thanks to BM/BC paving.

The last I heard was, PWD is re-writing the manual. God bless them.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Sep 2012 17:11

Dileep_> if all city roads are laid properly, Babubom will losse out annual Kickback through new contracts, Imagine this annual bonus disappering from thier pockets.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 25 Sep 2012 18:35

Yes, all these problems are a lack of engineering and implementation. Considering the lakhs of engineers we produce every year you would think we could produce dense detailed drawings that took care of things like drainage and curbs and sub base compaction. The only projects I have seen with proper engineering is the NHDP projects. And even there implementation is quite shoddy. City roads are simply not engineered at all. I remember asking for a asphalt mix design from a contractor in India and he gave me a blank stare. As far a Indian contractors are concerned Asphalt is Asphalt. They use the same crap everywhere without understanding its performance limitations. They don't understand that concrete and asphalt are NOT water proof. You must seal the top layer with mastic of penetrating sealer if your sub base can not handle water.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SBajwa » 25 Sep 2012 19:53

Drainage is a huge problem all over Indian inner cities. During monsoon season It is not pretty to see people sitting on Charpaees in knee deep water playing cards with mosquito's and flies all over the raw sewage around them.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 26 Sep 2012 22:12

It is okay corruption is there all over the world to get the swindle money.. but all over the world, they do provide good infrastructure - example USA.

Now, we have the SDRE fear of comparing our mijjles etc with western nations because we don't want to be fiddling in unnecessary proliferation concern and etc.. so, our policy is focused on china. Still, we are not even competing against china where it is required. this is where, many aam in India is becoming india born pakis - meaning going postal on gov working.

roads are important.. and we can't continue to keep blaming our babooze are like this and that.. where is our super duper Arya brain now .. that we have done marvelous engineering during giant temple and palace construction ages ?.. stop complaining and start taking actions.. now what you can do? yes, start spread the message that should provoke people to ask for good roads - with these specs.

zynda, I can live anywhere on the planet [except paki and their friendly nations]. It is not a question of me, but a question for 1 billion people.. they can't be taken for rides by a handful of elected officials. throw them away... it is in (y)our hands.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Singha » 27 Sep 2012 07:03

in BLR wherever old trees overhang the road, the rain water drips off at certain places for hours and creates huge craters - example being old airport road right upto varthur lake.

seems like a special mix is needed to prevent this and so far nobody here is using it.

the black art of gently sloping and scientific speedbreakers is also unknown to blr contractors. BDA bosses likely take care only in their own localities. most speedbreakers have no standard, are too high, too steep, too narrow and tend to make the car fall off the other side than driving off, leading to undercarriage scrapes if one is not super careful.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2012 09:53

Image

laying roads is one thing, maintaining is entirely another thing.. most roads in desh have poor shoulder or a shoulder that is so muddy, it actually reduces the usage of the road by 50%.

a skip by a two wheeler here is 101% possible. there are reliable cheap solutions to fix this... it can to only come from thinking brains for the health of the nation. [hint: lay the shoulder with appropriate materials - even using techniques as old as 3000BC from desh -ie, bricks as roads would work. of course, all they have to do is extend the roads as shoulders, and keep the surface distinct from road with rougher with gravels with little asphalt]

in the above pic, the mud is enough to toss any two wheeler out, and the bump is no use at all. it takes some counter intelligence to realize it is a bump rather a pedestrian cross.

================

a wiki pic about maasan road cross section for any comparision:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... tratum.JPG

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SaiK » 30 Sep 2012 22:09

Image
only it looks posh.. not sure if such narrow roads can really help traffic conditions.. any idea what is normal traffic on these would look like?

are we so hard pressed on area for better roads? imho, this road should be only one way!

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby SSridhar » 02 Oct 2012 13:24

Accidents expose lurking dangers on the Highways - The Hindu
Two fatal accidents in two national highways that cut through Salem last week, both involving school-going children, have once again exposed the lurking dangers in these speed motorways.

One in Kakapalayam in Salem-Coimbatore National Highway and another near Talavasal in Salem-Ulunderpet National Highway last week forced the villagers to stage road blockade that threw traffic out of gear for nearly six hours in the sectors. While the Salem-Coimbatore NH is completed without service roads at many stretches, the Salem-Ulunderpet NH, according to motorists, is laid with many flaws.

At many places, the four-lane road is narrowed down to two-lane stretch, thus, catching the drivers unawares leading to fatal accidents. It does not have service roads,” pointed out a lorry driver who used to frequent this stretch.

Despite repeated requests, the officials in the Salem unit of National Highways Authority of India did not bother to rectify the flaws, many claimed.

In fact, there is not even a warning board at any of these places in this stretch where the four lane road narrows down to two-lane. This leads to many fatal accidents,” said motorists.

The death of a school girl at Kakapalayam had brought hundreds of villagers onto the NH. They warned that their agitation would continue till the NHAI officials address their grievance.

Police officials had to convince them that they would take steps to make NHAI officials construct an underpass at the point since a government school was located.

Accordingly, NHAI officials prepared an estimate for Rs. 6 crore for which even boomi pooja was performed two days back.

Though over-speeding, drunken drinking, jumping signals, signage boards, pedestrian crossings etc, were also the contributing factors to fatal road accidents, lack of signage boards with warnings had added to the number of fatal accidents, road users pointed out.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 04 Oct 2012 01:21

Video from Auto rickshaw in Chennai. I counted 16 suicide attempts. Wrong way driving, crazy water tanker, etc. Check out the complete disregard shown in forcing his way through relatively patient traffic from 0:30 onwards. Poor red car with shiny wax almost got clobbered. If it wasn't so heinous it would be funny.

Truly, the Indians on the streets don't have a clue how to drive. :-? :(


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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby nakul » 04 Oct 2012 01:30

I would face some brickbats for this but this is nothing extraordinary. If I were a rickshaw driver driving 10-12 hours daily, reading the road situation would become second nature. The above situation is just a perfect example of managed chaos where people know exactly what they are doing. No wonder we SDREs don't bat an eyelid and its the foreigners who do the recordings. Long periods of rule following and human isolation has made them incapable of reading situations. In the US, they even require boards which say walk carefully on rough pathways :lol:

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby Bade » 04 Oct 2012 02:25

nakul, i guess it was in humor. But then why do SDRE soldiers march in columns why not behave like the rest of us. Why do army cantonments not look like your average indian town in planning and upkeep. So there are separate rules applied selectively in India to address groups of people.

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Re: Indian Roads Thread

Postby nakul » 04 Oct 2012 13:12

nakul, i guess it was in humor. But then why do SDRE soldiers march in columns why not behave like the rest of us. Why do army cantonments not look like your average indian town in planning and upkeep. So there are separate rules applied selectively in India to address groups of people.


Why should SDREs copy others? They are not soldiers with the jernails breathing down their necks to do or not to do. India has been a free society where a person had freedom to live his life without a church or mosque requesting compliance and order. You were free to do whatever you wanted as long as it did not pose a problem for others. The modern term would be crowd sourced intelligence. This reflects in modern society as well. They adjust to almost any situation in the world but the people with rule following soldierish mentality find it difficult to live in a free world. Interesting, no?


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