Indian Roads Thread

saip · Post by **saip** » 14 Apr 2018 19:56

About the lane discipline. Do people know that they have to drive between the lines and not straddle the line? In HYD when I take a taxi from the airport I always notice that the driver practically drives straddling the line keeping his imaginary nose wheel on the line as if he is preparing to take off. My exhortations to stay within the lane only bring a look of stupid surprise. Obviously the drivers do not undergo any driver education. That may be the first thing to start.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 14 Apr 2018 20:23

The whol package for road transport ministry should be -build properly designed road, create safety standards for auto industry, educate/screen drivers, regulate traffic and provide timely assistance to accident victims. There is scope for improvement everywhere imho.

Impropper road design is a major issue that generously contributes to very high accident rate on Indian roads. Speeds are increasing and we have so many new and very young drivers coming on every year, add little or no enforcement/bribing and you have got a royal mess. An intelligent road design minimizes chances for yahoo drivers to endanger other drivers, something like fly by wire software controls yahoo pilots from killing themselves.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 14 Apr 2018 20:37

With regards to road designs, I believe we need to build more exit ramps. Far too many accidents on highways is when vehicles are trying to merge from arterial roads. I know we don't have as much free space as Khan to build good circular ramps, but need to come up with designs and build as much as possible.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 14 Apr 2018 20:37

States are not going to easily give up control over RTOs and traffic policing . Revenue source ...

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 16 Apr 2018 10:52

Suraj wrote:What is the point of that argument ? When we had bad roads, we had high accident rates. With much better quality roads now than we did 10-15 years ago, we still have high accident rates. Logically, that indicates that driver sense is not linked to state of road. If you're appealing to emotion, i.e. "It won't matter to the dead or family", maybe not, but that's a different discussion within the realm of legal and not road infrastructure discussion, which is the topic of this thread.

We are a federal republic. So there's an important distinction to be aware of here. We have a union ministry for road construction. But driver licensing falls within the purview of states, who run their own RTOs. So does law and order, which includes traffic policing (we do not have a federal highway traffic police). We have a system in place, with certain entities responsible for certain things. Improving driver culture, though effective implementation of testing and licencing, is a state-level task. It is not within the purview of Mr.Gadkari's work. He's doing what he has been empowered to do, extremely well.

Now that it is clear that this thread is for physical road infrastructure primarily so will focus on that only.

Appreciate what Katare, Saip and Karthik S have said. It will be a herculean task to bring all of these factors together, but its very possible and achievable in our lifetimes, for which it is critical the fractured surface transport governance and ownership structure works as one.

Gadkari is doing excellent work, and I am only trying to convey that his focus has been on improving the human aspect as much as the physical aspect because he also understands "driver sense" is a critical factor in improving the overall quality of India's roads. I'm surprised some are being so dismissive of traffic deaths.

India loses $58 billion annually due to road accidents: UN study

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 16 Apr 2018 11:52

Suraj wrote:States are not going to easily give up control over RTOs and traffic policing . Revenue source ...

Road tax should be brought under the purview of GST as much as possible. The rest should be linked to Centralized law system - one Nation one System. IMO, Central govt can try model that they have for Passport for RTO services (and indeed a whole lot other public services). Let the private sector do the mud moving efficiently while a handful of govt officers to overseer the system.

Not going to be easy but a steady efforts like GST can make it happen eventually. We have seen the Road transport bill has been in limbo for many years now. Of coarse the states will be assured that they will get back the money as their state share.

Re driving manners, I feel just enforcing rules is not enough, nor its practical. Majority of Indians, including majority of so called "highly educated" people do not really know proper rules, why they are framed in that way and what could happen if they are not followed. A simple example, most of the folks do not know the concept of "blind spots" while driving or even walking on/crossing the roads. So many accidents happen in India because a person steps down from a bus and tries to go across it from the front immediately when the driver would never be able to see someone right in front of a bus. We need a massive campaign on national level to create awareness in current adult population and start teaching this in schools so upcoming generations will be trained properly. Showing them sample accident videos and telling carefully scripted real life anecdotes to highlight a rule, how its was flaunted and how it caused a tragedy, IMO is good way to increase sensitivity in people's mind. Fear for life is a big motivator. All professional drivers can be forced to go through a compulsory training which includes this kind of content. All Private companies can be told to give training to their workforce as a "Safety" training. So on and so forth. I am sure more imaginative minds can come up with better things to make it happen. I am also sure that it can be done in relatively lower cost than what would be needed to force the rules on 1.3B ignorant population.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 16 Apr 2018 12:15

Vasu wrote:Gadkari is doing excellent work, and I am only trying to convey that his focus has been on improving the human aspect as much as the physical aspect because he also understands "driver sense" is a critical factor in improving the overall quality of India's roads. I'm surprised some are being so dismissive of traffic deaths.

No one's being "dismissive of traffic deaths", or "ignoring the humans side of accidents" here. All of us have seen a bad accident on the roads. You are constructing a strawman here.

However, this is BRF, not a corner shop nukkad area. We are expected to be better informed here, and to hold a conversation at a far more informed level . We are a federal system, and are a nation of rules and laws. Certain things come under certain entities. It is a defined constitutional separation of powers. No purpose is to be served by assigning notional responsibility or blame for something to some party who - by law - have no control over it.

It is a very dangerous and misinformed thing to do. It impacts politics because lay people ignorantly blame a party who have no control over what they're being blamed for, as they work according to constitutional separation of powers. But on BRF, we are not supposed to parrot such lay ignorance; we are NOT supposed to be idly be victims of emotional rhetoric.

Please don't repeat the same line of argument, after having been explained that the central ministry of roads has no control over driver education and road traffic management , both of which are state powers. There's nothing to be served by trying to manipulate emotions. It's dangerous, and leads to a propagation of false beliefs regarding who is responsible for what. That results in politics being impacted by popular ignorance. This site should at the very least, serve to avoid propagating such ignorance.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 16 Apr 2018 14:09

Had been meaning to post this earlier. R Jagannathan's article in Swarajya.

Gadkari’s Ministry Moves A Step Closer Towards Tolling Without Toll Plazas

A proposal by Nitin Gadkari’s Union Road Transport and Highways Ministry to charge tolls only for the distance travelled by a vehicle on national highways has the potential to revolutionise road taxation in India.

A report in Business Standard says that the ministry, in conjunction with the National Highways Authority of India (NHAI), will be “geo-fencing” the Delhi-Mumbai Highway to track the distance travelled by a vehicle on the highway. The toll to be collected will be based on the distance travelled on the toll road, not a fixed one.

“Geo-fencing” is about using satellite tracking to create virtual geographical boundaries within which the movement of vehicles can be tracked and tolled based on RFID (radio frequency ID) signals.

The proposal is actually more radical than it sounds as it can be extended to collect tolls in areas other than highways. Currently, tolls are collected as congestion charges in business districts (as in cities like London) or at city entry and exit points (as in Mumbai and other cities); with geo-fencing, this charge, or any charge, can be levied on any vehicle within any geographical area, whether in cities or highways.

India can leapfrog the world in road pricing by making users pay for the amount of roads used, rather than using blunt instruments like high vehicle registration charges, road cesses, and entry and exit charges (at the five entry/exit points of Mumbai, the charge applies whether you just cross the point, or drive deep into the congested parts of the city, causing more congestion).

Geo-fencing – if it begins to work well – solves all issues of road pricing in one leap: it can reduce congestion, charge vehicles according to usage and reduce jams at toll plazas by effectively abolishing the need for them over time. Since the payment has to be made on the basis of satellite-tracked road usage, it follows that the payment can be made electronically, either through a pre-paid card or even a post-paid bill that comes home every month – like an electricity bill.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 20 Apr 2018 20:33

First phase of Delhi-Meerut expressway is more or less completed (source youtube).

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 20 Apr 2018 21:49

Is this the Eastern Peripheral Expressway ? Looks pretty impressive - 6 lanes in each direction too:

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 20 Apr 2018 21:58

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 20 Apr 2018 22:02

It is actually 3 lanes on each side with provision for 4 lanes. The interchanges have been made keeping that in mind. So 4 lanes plus 2 exit lanes = 6 lanes.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 20 Apr 2018 22:20

Thanks. That came up fast! EPE was lagging behind WPE at one time, but it's already almost done.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 21 Apr 2018 05:19

Finally! There was talk of it being inaugurated for last independence day itself.
What is the target date for WPE. Hopefully they will provide some relief from smog and traffic congestion.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Apr 2018 15:49

The elevated link to Delhi-Meerut expressway through Gaziabad is also ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU1mxWeH1Q8

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 21 Apr 2018 20:16

Interestingly, it's a six-lane highway built on top of single pillars.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 21 Apr 2018 23:13

News on Chen-Bglore expressway.

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/nhai-step ... in-chennai

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 27 Apr 2018 12:27

NHAI signs first TOT agreement with Australia’s Macquarie

The National Highways Authority of India (NHAI) signed its first toll-operate transfer concession agreement with Sydney-based Macquarie Group on Thursday.

Under the model, the right to collect toll on nine selected national highway stretches has been assigned to Macquarie for 30 years against an upfront payment to the government.

The company emerged as the highest bidder for the NHAI contract earlier this year. Under the agreement, Macquarie will pay an upfront amount of.`9,681.5 crore within 120 days of signing the contract.

“The deal is one of the largest foreign investments in India’s public infrastructure and will entitle the group to manage a little less than 700 km of national highways. These national highways are across Andhra Pradesh and Gujarat,” said Rohit Singh, member, finance, NHAI.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 27 Apr 2018 12:43

Supratik wrote:The elevated link to Delhi-Meerut expressway through Gaziabad is also ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU1mxWeH1Q8

Title is not true, Hyd's elevated expressway is longer than this at 11.6 km vs 10 km.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 27 Apr 2018 19:05

Supratik wrote:It is actually 3 lanes on each side with provision for 4 lanes. The interchanges have been made keeping that in mind. So 4 lanes plus 2 exit lanes = 6 lanes.

The first 10 km from Delhi towards Meerut are 7 lanes each (14 lanes)

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 27 Apr 2018 22:32

Am talking about EPE which is a different expressway (peripheral ring road).

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 27 Apr 2018 22:49

oh! sorry!

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 28 Apr 2018 16:53

NHAI monetising highway projects.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 934423.cms

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 30 Apr 2018 21:29

I see video cameras/CCTV systems mounted on traffic light poles on many intersections in Bengaluru but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be serving as any kind of deterrent when it comes to traffic violations. I see many two wheelers, cabs & autos running red light with impunity even if they are made aware of CCTV cameras in the junction. I know around 3-4 years ago, BLR Traffic Police were sending tickets on violations captured by traffic cameras. It seems like I had run a red light once and received a ticket in mail for the same. After that, I am careful to slow down & stop as soon as the traffic light turns amber. Anyways, I don't know if the rule to increase the traffic fines severely was ever passed or if passed being implemented on road. I doubt it, because if BTP has indeed implemented the same and fine amount should serve as a deterrent from violations but I am not seeing any evidence it.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 01 May 2018 12:51

Zynda wrote:I see video cameras/CCTV systems mounted on traffic light poles on many intersections in Bengaluru but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be serving as any kind of deterrent when it comes to traffic violations. I see many two wheelers, cabs & autos running red light with impunity even if they are made aware of CCTV cameras in the junction. I know around 3-4 years ago, BLR Traffic Police were sending tickets on violations captured by traffic cameras. It seems like I had run a red light once and received a ticket in mail for the same. After that, I am careful to slow down & stop as soon as the traffic light turns amber. Anyways, I don't know if the rule to increase the traffic fines severely was ever passed or if passed being implemented on road. I doubt it, because if BTP has indeed implemented the same and fine amount should serve as a deterrent from violations but I am not seeing any evidence it.

It will cause massive khujli but license plates/RCs should be linked to Aadhaar and all fines should be sent to the owner along with photographic evidence. On non-compliance, all services - banking, cellular etc must be suspended.

srin · Post by **srin** » 01 May 2018 20:50

Why more Aadhaar saar ? We already have a system like Zinda-ji mentioned. I also got an inland letter mail for lane violation in MG Road in my car, a couple of year ago. Not sure if the system is still is in use, but it used to work.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 03 May 2018 20:08

srin wrote:Why more Aadhaar saar ? We already have a system like Zinda-ji mentioned. I also got an inland letter mail for lane violation in MG Road in my car, a couple of year ago. Not sure if the system is still is in use, but it used to work.

1. A large no of vehicles are not driven by owners and hence no real incentive/punishment for non payment of fines coming via post
2. In case of owner driven vehicle also, the address maintained by RTO would not be current and hence CCTV are ignored boldly
3. For a large no of commercial vehicle,including Auto and delivery boys on 2 wheelers, the driver has multiple licenses and hence CCTV are ignored boldly

Linking Aadhar to registration and driving license as well as other services like banking etc are key.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 03 May 2018 21:15

Multiple licences ? More detail please.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 04 May 2018 04:34

Suraj wrote:Multiple licences ? More detail please.

That can happen in many ways.

1. Licenses under different identities.

2. Licesnses issued in different states, since regional RTOs are not really interconnected.

3. Bribery.

vish_mulay · Post by **vish_mulay** » 04 May 2018 04:56

Last year did road trip from Delhi to Rajasthan using a private taxi. Noticed something very interesting, even though the innova has National permit, our driver changed car plates before entering Rajasthan from ncr to raj plate. Driver explained that it helps with bribes. I still can’t wrap my head how he obtained 2 different registrations for same vehicle. I know that you pay 15 yr insurance upfront during registration. It seems it’s cheaper to pay 2 insurance premiums rather than daily bribe. We had really good 10 days with our driver and he was very resourceful in regards to finding pure veg clean restaurants and good recommendations about where to spend more time.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 04 May 2018 06:51

vish_mulay wrote:Last year did road trip from Delhi to Rajasthan using a private taxi. Noticed something very interesting, even though the innova has National permit, our driver changed car plates before entering Rajasthan from ncr to raj plate. Driver explained that it helps with bribes. I still can’t wrap my head how he obtained 2 different registrations for same vehicle. I know that you pay 15 yr insurance upfront during registration. It seems it’s cheaper to pay 2 insurance premiums rather than daily bribe. We had really good 10 days with our driver and he was very resourceful in regards to finding pure veg clean restaurants and good recommendations about where to spend more time.

How do you know he has national permit? Did the car got a Yellow number plate? If not then he was driving a private vehicle and wasn't allowed to run commercial taxi operations using that vehicle. One should always use Yellow plate vehicles as Taxis when going interstate.

vish_mulay · Post by **vish_mulay** » 04 May 2018 07:13

Nope, number plates were regular but he has N/P stickers on car both side. Car was booked through a travel agency which did hotel and car package.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 04 May 2018 22:35

vish_mulay wrote:Last year did road trip from Delhi to Rajasthan using a private taxi. Noticed something very interesting, even though the innova has National permit, our driver changed car plates before entering Rajasthan from ncr to raj plate. Driver explained that it helps with bribes. I still can’t wrap my head how he obtained 2 different registrations for same vehicle. I know that you pay 15 yr insurance upfront during registration. It seems it’s cheaper to pay 2 insurance premiums rather than daily bribe. We had really good 10 days with our driver and he was very resourceful in regards to finding pure veg clean restaurants and good recommendations about where to spend more time.

He fixed a fake number plate, plain and simple. He doesn't have a national permit, heck he doesn't even have the right to operate a commercial service (yellow board) even in a single state.

Also, insurance is paid annually, what is paid upfront is lifetime road tax. Unless a vehicle is transferred from one state to another you don't need to pay this again.

M_Joshi · Post by **M_Joshi** » 05 May 2018 00:53

vish_mulay wrote:Nope, number plates were regular but he has N/P stickers on car both side. Car was booked through a travel agency which did hotel and car package.

N/P Sticker on both sides do not guarantee that he holds a valid NP in real. Also NP is issued only to commercial vehicles which have Yellow Number Plates. So a car with White Number Plates need not take a NP, it is NP by default. Every car has a unique Chassis & Engine No. which is linked to the Registration No. of that vehicle. One car cannot have 2 RCs plain & simple. He did 2 illegal things :1) Hauling commercial passengers in a Private Vehicle to save/steal on Tax. 2) Illegally changing Number Plates of a car. Plus putting to risk the person who owns the real vehicle with the fake no. he was using. You should've reported him once the trip was over. Responsibility starts with us no matter how good the driver's behaviour was. People who take law as a joke need to be shown what it means.

CalvinH · Post by **CalvinH** » 06 May 2018 01:45

Yes, you can take your personal car anywhere in India but you cant use it as a interstate taxi without having a commercial license to do so. The commercial license will provide the operator a Yellow number plate. In the sporadic road checks police wont stop you.

Most local taxi companies in Delhi use private vehicles as taxi for tourist. For places like Agra and Jaipur. Its illegal. If caught the car owner is screwed. The local police will give a ticket, keep the original RC, and provide receipt that original RC is now with police . The owner then has to go to the local court to pay the fine and get the RC back (on a scheduled date). Or he has to pay a hefty bribe. The driver can drive the car with the photocopy of RC and receipt for the date of appearance marked in the ticket but the owner has to come to the local court later to get the RC back

Its hard for police to detect such cases easily as most of the cars popular family cars and most of the families now use drivers. However police know this and have barriers in local roads to make quick money.

if you are using such a vehicle to drive between Delhi-UP-Rajasthan or Delhi-UP-Rajasthan-MP and are caught at one border check, please prepare to be caught at next one as well. Because the border crossings are not far away from each other and the first one will radio the police people in second place so that they can make a quick buck out of you again:)

If you hire taxi locally in Delhi and plan to go across two states make sure of below things. Neighboring states are ok.
- Taxi should be commercial with yellow number plate
- Driver should have a valid driver license and other vehicle documents (original RC and Insurance)
- Tires are in good shape (not too old and worn out)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 May 2018 12:25

inside delhi also lot of these private cars operate as airport drops or day taxis. the driver makes sure to take the agreed upon fare before reaching the airport departures driveway lest anyone see it as a commercial venture and pounce. he acts as your personal driver.

i have used it several times from ghaziabed to palam because thats what the local taxi stand uncle sends my way. by the time we reach the palam mor flyover he gets all anxious and requests his money

clearly some better means is needed to check these treetop level lo-lo-lo DPSA strikers flying under the radar coverage, right now the surly old uncle is just padding his own pockets on cash basis

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 06 May 2018 15:34

EPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjidMpX ... e=youtu.be

Highway construction boom.

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/m ... 76131.html

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 06 May 2018 15:37

Bandra-Versova sea-link awarded to RelInfra.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 046938.cms

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 May 2018 21:36

Supratik wrote:EPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjidMpX ... e=youtu.be

Highway construction boom.

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/m ... 76131.html

Good to see that EPE is built of concrete and not asphalt. Costs more, but lasts longer. Also a little harder on tires. For what will be a heavily trafficed urban expressway, concrete is the better choice.

"Construction boom" is such a great change from what used to be the case just 2-3 years ago, when all the major infrastructure companies were in deep poo and banks were heavily loaded with their bad debt. This was the scene in late 2015, when people angrily wanted to know why growth hadn't picked up immediately:
Debt continues to weigh down India’s top conglomerates

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 07 May 2018 16:06

Singha wrote:inside delhi also lot of these private cars operate as airport drops or day taxis. the driver makes sure to take the agreed upon fare before reaching the airport departures driveway lest anyone see it as a commercial venture and pounce. he acts as your personal driver.

The best part such "business practices" have now been even taken into countries like UK

. When I made my first visit to the UK, from Heathrow to Hounslow I became a pucca brown sahib and went using a London black cab. No refusal to ply, no haggling on the fare and he went by the meter. The finance folks at Veg.Oil.Co was not very happy when I gave them the bill.

Next time around my UK counterpart had arranged my pick up. He gave me the number of the driver as well. I called up the number, and the driver asked me NOT to go to the area where black cabs or other registered cabs would be waiting. I was asked to come to another area where private cars (with relatives of the passengers) could wait. The driver a Sardar from Punjab then took me to the hotel using the services of Tom Tom. Had to really convince him, that I have no plans to camp in UK even when he kept on explaining the benefits of UK

. Paid him much lesser than the black cab rates, for which he gave me a receipt (from one of the rent-a-car agencies).