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India's Power Sector

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby nachiket » 24 Dec 2016 01:23

When did India get a working Thorium reactor? That video is almost certainly mistaken. Maybe they are talking about the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor at Kalpakkam which does not use Thorium.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Rishirishi » 24 Dec 2016 05:16

It is old news from 2014, refering to kamini

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby NRao » 25 Dec 2016 06:36

By 2022 India will be one of largest installations of renewable energy: Piyush Goyal

Under its plan, Goyal said, the government is also committed to set up solar plant of one lakh megawatt to meet its security needs.

"So far in the two and half years, we have expanded the solar install capacity by 200 percent, i.e 9,000 MW and by end of December 2017 I expect it to be 20,000 MW," he added.

Goyla further said India is also considering to expand its hydro power capacity which currently stands at 25 MW. "Similarly in wind we are aggressively taking it to 20,000 MW, apart from expanding the scope of nuclear and small hydro projects," he said.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 28 Dec 2016 03:16

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... hermal-pow

Big enough to warrant mentioning in this topic, or under infrastructure. Pretty impressive!

NTPC commissions 800 mw thermal power station. This is part of the 4000 MW Kudgi super thermal power plant in Karnataka.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby JohnTitor » 30 Dec 2016 18:23

^^ The article has disappeared, wonder why.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 30 Dec 2016 23:11

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/com ... 444001.ece

Here it is again, Kudgi superthermal power station

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby GShankar » 05 Jan 2017 11:10

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6033 ... king-soda/

A Coal-Fired Power Plant in India Is Turning Carbon Dioxide Into Baking Soda

In the southern Indian city of Tuticorin, locals are unlikely to suffer from a poorly risen cake. That’s because a coal-fired thermal power station in the area captures carbon dioxide and turns it into baking soda.

Carbon capture schemes are nothing new. Typically, they use a solvent, such as amine, to catch carbon dioxide and prevent it from escaping into the atmosphere. From there, the CO2 can either be stored away or used.

But the Guardian reports that a system installed in the Tuticorin plant uses a new proprietary solvent developed by the company Carbon Clean Solutions. The solvent is reportedly just slightly more efficient than those used conventionally, requiring a little less energy and smaller apparatus to run. The collected CO2 is used to create baking soda, and it claims that as much as 66,000 tons of the gas could be captured at the plant each year.

Its operators say that the marginal gain in efficiency is just enough to make it feasible to run the plant without a subsidy. In fact, it’s claimed to be the first example of an unsubsidized industrial plant capturing CO2 for use.

It’s a glimmer of hope for the clean coal industry. A string of U.S. problems, among them the wildly expensive Kemper power plant and the folding of Peabody Energy, which bet heavily on clean coal, have served to demonstrate that baking carbon sequestration in from the get-go is economically challenging. But successes of retrofitted systems, such as the W.A. Parish Generating Station in Texas and the Tuticorin scheme, demonstrate that adding capture systems can prove feasible.

Bloomberg New Energy Finance predicts that solar power may, on average, be cheaper than coal by 2025—so coal's future as a means of generating power could be limited. But we may still be able to clean up existing plants—and bake some nice cakes along the way.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 05 Jan 2017 18:44

^
Nice, is that company( Carbon Clean Solutions) an Indian one?

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby chaitanya » 05 Jan 2017 20:51

^ Looks like! The co-founders are from IIT Kharagpur according to their bio on the website

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby JTull » 08 Jan 2017 19:36


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Rs. 2.97 per unit

Postby Uttam » 10 Feb 2017 22:07

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/solar-power-tariffs-fall-to-rs-2-97-per-unit/articleshow/57085143.cms

:D :D :D :D
NEW DELHI: Solar power tariffs have fallen to Rs 2.97 per unit with Mahindra Renewables, Acme Solar and Solenergi Power Pvt Ltd bagging contracts to set up one unit each of 250-mw in the Madhya Pradesh government's 750-mw Rewa ultra mega solar park.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Uttam » 10 Feb 2017 22:11

Kalpakkam to have two more prototype fast breeder reactors: Govt
NEW DELHI: The Department of Atomic Energy will construct two Prototype Fast Breeder Reactors (PFBR) of 600 MW each at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu, besides the present one of 500 MW capacity which is expected to go fully functional by October, the government said today.

"All the construction activities of PFBR have been completed and the integrated commissioning activities have started. PFBR is expected to go fully functional by October 2017.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Uttam » 24 Feb 2017 19:55

India's wind power tariffs hit new low in push for renewables

NEW DELHI: Indian wind power tariffs fell to a record low in a government-run auction on Friday, weeks after solar power rates too hit an all-time low, as the country looks to cut chronic electricity shortages in one of the world's biggest clean energy programmes.

India, the world's third-biggest greenhouse gas emitter, has set a target of raising its renewable energy generation to 175 gigawatt by 2022, around five times current usage, to supply power to its 1.3 billion people and fight climate change.
The government push, personally monitored by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has prompted companies to bid aggressively for solar and wind projects, pushing tariffs low enough to challenge power generated by fossil fuels such as coal over the long term.


In an auction conducted by state-controlled Solar Energy Corporation of India (SECI) for various wind projects totalling 1 gigawatt, five companies separately quoted a tariff of 3.46 rupees ($0.0519) per unit to win the projects.

"After solar cost reduction below 3 rupees/unit, wind power cost down to 3.46 rupees/unit through transparent auction," India's coal, power and renewable energy minister, Piyush Goyal, said in a tweet on Friday.


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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Suraj » 27 Apr 2017 05:35

From Scientific American:
India's Energy Landscape Is Rapidly Changing
India's energy landscape is changing so swiftly that researchers are having a tough time keeping up with it.
Prospects for the country's coal sector continue to drop along with the falling price of renewable energy. Some situations seem to be developing in the time it takes to get a research paper out.

In July, for instance, the nonprofit CoalSwarm conducted a survey of proposed coal plants in India and found 370 in the pipeline, amounting to around 243 gigawatts of power. The survey came a year after an International Energy Agency projection that India would be responsible for around half of the coal-fired power capacity added globally until 2040. A research paper based on the survey, which was released recently in the American Geophysical Union journal Earth's Future, determined India would be unable to meet its commitments under the Paris Agreement if all those plants were built.

But between the time the survey was conducted and the time the paper was written, the Indian government concluded it would not require any new coal plants for at least a decade. About 50 GW of planned coal capacity has either been shelved or left inactive, and the country has targeted a 275-GW renewable energy share for 2027 instead.

“When I worked on this back in June, I thought, wow, these coal plants are really going to lock out renewables,” said Christine Shearer, a senior researcher with CoalSwarm, regarding the study. “But now they're getting so cheap and increasing so far that I'm thinking that no, they're not going to end up being stranded. It's amazing how quickly things are changing.”

India accounts for about 4.5 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions. As part of the Paris Agreement, Prime Minister Narendra Modi vowed that by 2030, at least 40 percent of the country's electricity will be generated from non-fossil sources. The goal includes 175 GW of renewable energy capacity by 2022.

Shearer and her colleagues note in the research paper that India's climate goals, which include reducing emissions by around 35 percent of 2005 levels by the end of the next decade, would be a distant dream if planned coal projects were to be completed. Moreover, said Shearer, many of the proposed plants are simply unneeded.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Kashi » 27 Apr 2017 06:24

Nothing very scientific about this article to be honest. I was looking for more figures, regional distribution and expected returns and all, but the article does not touch upon those. Nor does it sumamrise the fall in tariff structures.

The only people whose opinions are sought are NGO honchos, no power experts among them. Moreover, the authors have failed to touch upon the peak power demand, especially the regional variations.

It would be useful had they touched upon other aspects as well- distribution infrastructure that needs to be massively upgraded.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 27 Apr 2017 06:41

The print edition of the recent Scientific American I think has more details with figures. I'll go out and buy one off the newstands to read it in detail.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby jamwal » 27 Apr 2017 12:13

UP people , how true is it ?


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... n&from=mdr

In just a month of Yogi Adityanath's reign, perennially power-starved UP becomes 'zero-shortage' state


UP is powering ahead — literally — to shed blackouts within a month of the BJP taking over the reins, moving from perennially running short of electricity to 'zero-shortage' in April even after a 20% rise in consumption during this period.

According to the National Load Despatch Centre data for power transactions made by the state utility in the March-April period, daily energy consumption increasing from 265 MU (million units) per day to 320 MU in the last one month.

For a state known for long blackouts, the sharp rise in consumption should have made the outages longer. But data indicates otherwise, with no gap between demand and supply position for nearly all of the period under review.

This is borne out by the fact that the maximum demand met by the state utility during this period increased from 11,900 MW (mega watt) in early March to nearly 16,000 MW at present, showing no shortage during this period.

Does this mean there's no blackout? Well, not exactly. A random survey of apartment blocks in Ghaziabad and Noida indicate they are having to run the backup generators for lesser time than before as the outages have become shorter whenever and wherever they are happening.

"Earlier the generator could be running for up to 7-8 hours. Nowadays, the runtime has come down to an average of two hours," Raman Thakur, estate supervisor at one of the prime housing so cieties in Ghaziabad's Kaushambi area told TOI.

State power officials said supply is snapped mainly due to "local" issues such as for repairing of main distribution lines, a snapped wire or a blown transformer and not for want of electricity.

The turnaround has come because of two reasons. One, the state has become a major buyer of power, taking advantage of lower prices on electricity exchanges as well as bilateral deals. The state is buying 1,500 MW through exchanges and bilateral deals, taking advantage of lower prices. This is in sharp contrast to the situation prevailing a month before when the state had, as one industry executive described, "an occasional or intermittent presence on the exchanges and bought not even half of its present shopping".

Two, several transmission links have come on stream, especially in western UP , improving availability from new generation capacities commissioned in recent times.







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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Kashi » 27 Apr 2017 13:21

Just yesterday I came to hear of powercuts in a village in Eastern UP. High temperatures are driving up the power demand. The problem is not power generation, but the distribution system- the transmission wires, dilapidated transformers and of course rampant theft and an utterly corrupt and inefficient Uttar Pradesh bijli vibhaag

It's a huge challenge to set this right.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Sicanta » 27 Apr 2017 13:37

JohnTitor wrote:Could someone with knowledge explain how UDAY works? I know that the basic feature is to pass on 75% of the discom debt to the state govt and 25% as bonds to investors. The 75% that the state buys, can then be sold on to other investors. But I seem to be missing something here, because the underlying reason for the financial crisis discoms are in hasn't been dealt with. The over-subsidisation, inefficient T&D, theft, corruption etc are responsible. Unless those are resolved, UDAY merely makes the state pay for all the losses - If so, I'm guessing at some point the GoI will have to buy it off their hands as no investor will want to touch that debt!

So, what am I missing?


State discoms hike industry power rates

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 116_1.html

Ten of the 26 states that signed up for the Ujwal DISCOM Assurance Yojana (UDAY) have increased energy charges for industries in the range of 3% to a whopping 25% in FY18. This is a new avenue to improve revenues as they undergo financial restructuring.

Experts, however, said this was against one of the essential pillars of UDAY, though it might help reduce the financial stress of state power distribution companies (discoms) to some extent.

Till now, Andhra Pradesh, Assam, Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Odisha, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Uttarakhand and Meghalaya have revised tariffs. In Gujarat, the rates are almost the same as last year. Maharashtra has cut the rates marginally, from Rs 7.95 to Rs 7.9.

But everywhere else, the industry continues to pay high power charges. The hike this year has been in the range of Rs 5 to Rs 8 per unit, in the energy component of the tariff. The fixed part remains the same for all consumers.

This has happened at a time when the country has surplus energy. Peak power demand is about 150,000 Mw, while peak availability is around 180,000 Mw and installed capacity is about 300,000 Mw. Rates in the short-term market have come down to Rs 2.5 per unit; long-term agreements in recent times have seen rates as high as Rs 5 per unit.

Experts said as states wanted a steady flow of revenue, industries were being charged more to recover costs. State discoms cumulatively owe Rs 4 lakh crore, which is being restructured under UDAY.

“While the account books of the discoms are clear now, with state governments taking over their debt, there is no financing till they turnaround their operations. In such a situation, states are charging higher from heavy-usage consumers. Discoms are hoping to keep their revenue stream healthy,” said a Delhi-based sector expert.

Most of these states have high cross subsidy surcharges (CSS) and additional surcharges on the final power tariff for industrial consumers.

The CSS is levied by the state discoms to recover their cost of supply for giving subsidised power to a section of the population.

During the last fiscal year, the CSS increased from 30% to 600% in about a dozen states. In Bihar, it went up by 500%, 174% in Uttar Pradesh. In Himachal Pradesh, it was up 193% and in Gujarat, 146%.

“This, however, beats the purpose of UDAY. The program to reform discoms was supposed to kick in financial and operational efficiency. Imposing CSS brings it back to the same vicious cycle of subsidising power. Also, its time discoms look at rational power supply and tariff structure across the board,” said an analyst.

The National Electricity Policy allows states to subsidise a section of their consumers. In turn, it has provisions for levying additional charges on consumers who are capable of paying higher rates to make up for the gap. The charge is usually levied on commercial and industrial consumers who can switch to other sources of power.

The subsidised consumers are mostly farmers, residents of villages, and lower-income and -consumption groups. Industries are allowed to purchase power outside the states and spot market, in the “open access” category.

Open access is yet to be made mandatory for all consumers under the Electricity Act. It is also proposed that open access be free of any additional charges to create a uniform power market across the country. Currently, states keep restricting open access by levying various charges on the industry, such as CSS.

The National Tariff Policy suggested a new formula for CSS determination and capped it at 20% of the tariff — which led to states increasing the charges. The policy also introduced additional surcharge for these consumers when they shift to sources other than state discoms.


Image

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby prahaar » 27 Apr 2017 14:24

Kashi wrote:Just yesterday I came to hear of powercuts in a village in Eastern UP. High temperatures are driving up the power demand. The problem is not power generation, but the distribution system- the transmission wires, dilapidated transformers and of course rampant theft and an utterly corrupt and inefficient Uttar Pradesh bijli vibhaag

It's a huge challenge to set this right.


I heard from a UP person that it is a practice in many villages to keep all the switches ON, to use the power whenever it arrives (as it is not regular, people do not know when it is available). This actually creates localized spikes, which further strain creaky infrastructure.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Singha » 27 Apr 2017 14:55

^^ why not do what many shops do which is install one dim light and not ON the whole USS enterprise.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby prahaar » 27 Apr 2017 15:23

Singha wrote:^^ why not do what many shops do which is install one dim light and not ON the whole USS enterprise.


My guess, ready to be corrected. Many of the rural subscribers might be tapping a farm line, which might be free or only a nominal charge. This removes the need to be cautious about the bill amount. "Free" except for emergencies/contingencies is bad practice. There was a statistic about 70% line loss in Etawah, 67% in Azamgarh, 8% in Gautambuddhanagar. Cannot find the video.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby jayasimha » 28 Apr 2017 11:09

http://dipp.nic.in/English/Investor/Mak ... er2016.pdf

Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion

Ministry of Power, Power sector

Achievements Report
December 16, 2016

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby JTull » 02 May 2017 17:34


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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby disha » 02 May 2017 23:51

The numbers on UP electricity consumption are even better!

Here is the link from ET: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 376089.cms

Of course #mediapimps do not know how to calculate., so using their numbers - presenting my calculations

According to the National Load Despatch Centre data for power transactions made by the state utility in the March-April period, daily energy consumption increasing from 265 MU (million units) per day to 320 MU in the last one month.


So daily increase in consumption is from 265 MU to 320 MU : 20%., for the month of March-April. Remember., YA became CM of UP on 19th march. This 20% "rise in power consumption" is to be discounted. The true base of power consumption is still unknown., since there is a large unmet demand and IMHO a better indicator here is how much is supply growth!

Here (supply growth) it gets even better:

This is borne out by the fact that the maximum demand met by the state utility during this period increased from 11,900 MW (mega watt) in early March to nearly 16,000 MW at present, showing no shortage during this period.


Of course demand was always there and it was unmet., hence the supply to meet maximum demand increased from 11.9 GW to 16 GW - that is a 34% increase in availability which was consumed.

"Earlier the generator could be running for up to 7-8 hours. Nowadays, the runtime has come down to an average of two hours," Raman Thakur, estate supervisor at one of the prime housing so cieties in Ghaziabad's Kaushambi area told TOI.


UP is now running into last mile problem! The rickety local distribution grid is what is causing issues.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 04 May 2017 06:56

Image

This is WAY too expensive and is comparable to prices in the US. Power needs to be no more than Rs. 4/KwHr (unit) max.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby rahulm » 04 May 2017 08:05

NaMo has been very Chankiyan, he said 24/7 power for all, he never specified the voltage and frequency (Hz).

We have solved the generation issue (central government ) but when it comes to distribution it's still mostly a financial and infrastructure mess (states autonomy once again proves to be an undoing).

Thankfully. Telecom is a central,issue. If it had been a state subject we would still be in the 18th century.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby PratikDas » 04 May 2017 09:05

A comparison of India and USA electricity retail prices in US cents:

Click for high-res
Image

USA average in this dataset is 10.93 cents/kWh
India average in this dataset is 17.66 cents/kWh

Interactive link
Since every bar isn't titled in the screenshot for lack of space, you may want to use the link to hover on the bars with your mouse and read the label or value

References:
USA Data (2014): https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
India Data (2010-2011, 47.2 INR to 1 USD in 2011): https://data.gov.in/catalog/state-wise-average-rate-electricity-domestic-and-industrial-consumers

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 04 May 2017 10:45

PratikDas,

If you normalize for per capita incomes, then electricity prices per KWHr in India is very expensive in terms of gobbling up family income. I would also argue that if solar power becomes more prominent, then power price per KWHr will only increase.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby PratikDas » 04 May 2017 11:22

Mort Walker wrote:PratikDas,

If you normalize for per capita incomes, then electricity prices per KWHr in India is very expensive in terms of gobbling up family income. I would also argue that if solar power becomes more prominent, then power price per KWHr will only increase.

Completely agree with the high price of Indian electricity when considering purchasing power.

However, Piyush Goyal ji says the opposite about solar.
One of the consequences of all this ongoing investment in infrastructure is that the cost of providing solar power in India is becoming increasingly affordable – to the point where the country's energy minister, Piyush Goyal, now says that solar power is a more cost-effective option than the old fossil-fuel staple, coal.

"I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant," Goyal told the media at a press conference in India on Monday. "Of course there are challenges of 24/7 power. We accept all of that – but we have been able to come up with a solar-based long term vision that is not subsidy based."

That vision is part a national plan for to generate more than 100 gigawatts of solar power by 2022 – an ambitious target that's about 20 times beyond the current level solar provides in India.


As an aside, energy is the noose with which Indian development has been throttled by the world powers and the UPA. I am sure that if electricity became cheaper in India then you would see more innovation and more indigenous intellectual property not just in industry but starting in homes itself. Starting from small to big, soldering irons, heat guns, lathes, refrigerators, air conditioners for clean environments, arc welders, etc. are common tools for innovation in different walks of life, all of which use electricity which many Indians can't afford on an ongoing basis even if they can save up to buy the tools.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby kit » 04 May 2017 11:46

Uttam wrote:Kalpakkam to have two more prototype fast breeder reactors: Govt
NEW DELHI: The Department of Atomic Energy will construct two Prototype Fast Breeder Reactors (PFBR) of 600 MW each at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu, besides the present one of 500 MW capacity which is expected to go fully functional by October, the government said today.

"All the construction activities of PFBR have been completed and the integrated commissioning activities have started. PFBR is expected to go fully functional by October 2017.



and all are un safeguarded :mrgreen:

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 06 May 2017 18:20

PratikDas wrote:However, Piyush Goyal ji says the opposite about solar.
One of the consequences of all this ongoing investment in infrastructure is that the cost of providing solar power in India is becoming increasingly affordable – to the point where the country's energy minister, Piyush Goyal, now says that solar power is a more cost-effective option than the old fossil-fuel staple, coal.

"I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant," Goyal told the media at a press conference in India on Monday. "Of course there are challenges of 24/7 power. We accept all of that – but we have been able to come up with a solar-based long term vision that is not subsidy based."


Goyal answered the question about cheap. Yes, solar is cheap, but only during the day. Batteries have losses and are inefficient. Solar has a place to reduce the load on the grid during the day to use for industrial and agricultural applications. What solar does is free up the production of conventional power plants to be used at night. What we need in India is a base power load using nuclear, then solar and wind only if it is cost effective. So far it is not, solar power in India has a retail (not production which what most articles are quoting) tariff rate of over Rs. 6.5/KWHr (unit).

PratikDas wrote:As an aside, energy is the noose with which Indian development has been throttled by the world powers and the UPA. I am sure that if electricity became cheaper in India then you would see more innovation and more indigenous intellectual property not just in industry but starting in homes itself. Starting from small to big, soldering irons, heat guns, lathes, refrigerators, air conditioners for clean environments, arc welders, etc. are common tools for innovation in different walks of life, all of which use electricity which many Indians can't afford on an ongoing basis even if they can save up to buy the tools.


Two things we need for big economic growth. (1) Growth in agriculture. Cheap power will allow easier pumping of river waters for irrigation to use less of our ground water. India is a top world food producer even after nearly 50% loss of crops due to spoilage. Spoilage would not happen if there are massive cold storage facilities, but for that we need cheap power. (2) Growth in manufacturing. This brings far more ancillary jobs and skills than the knowledge based industries like IT and is difficult to move once established. For that we need cheap power, and that too at tariff rates well below Rs. 3/KWHr (unit). Even small scale specialized steel production needs lots of cheap power to be competitive.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby kiranA » 06 May 2017 20:53

All this investment in solar ironically reveals the incapability of india to get investments in coal and nuclear. solar will never give reliable, quality power at competitve rates with existing tech. India really needs to invest in coal mining and thermal plants - whether coal, gas or nuclear.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Supratik » 06 May 2017 23:12

Please don't post garbage. More than 100 new thermal power plants in various stages of implementation are lying idle world wide as countries are moving into clean energy. Thermal capacity in India is not being utilized fully although coal is now available in sufficient amounts. Huge deals are being made in solar and wind energy in India at par with thermal. Whether they will be economically viable remains to be seen. Thermal is the most polluting way to produce energy. India has emission commitments in producing clean energy. As for nuclear energy, Both the American and French companies are in black. The Japanese won't sell. So it is going to be Russian and domestic.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby kiranA » 07 May 2017 03:21

Supratik wrote:Please don't post garbage. More than 100 new thermal power plants in various stages of implementation are lying idle world wide as countries are moving into clean energy. Thermal capacity in India is not being utilized fully although coal is now available in sufficient amounts. Huge deals are being made in solar and wind energy in India at par with thermal. Whether they will be economically viable remains to be seen. Thermal is the most polluting way to produce energy. India has emission commitments in producing clean energy. As for nuclear energy, Both the American and French companies are in black. The Japanese won't sell. So it is going to be Russian and domestic.


how is it garbage ? coal is not available in india because india does not mine properly. Tariff is just a part of the equation - solar will come when sun wants to shine and wind will come when wind likes to blow not when people want it. Also they mess up transmission and induce unnecessary complications in pricing. Green commitments can wait - India needs to have a basic economic capacity for reliable electricity.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 07 May 2017 04:00

Thermal power can also come from natural gas. What we need is to have a base load capacity that will get us through economic growth in to 2030. From there we can have the "green energy" in the mix to take care of peak load. The goal should be no more than Rs. 3/- per unit for residential use and no more than Rs. 2/- per unit for industrial and commercial use.

In the quest for green we forget the west developed with very cheap power. Without cheap power, India will NEVER develop.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby JohnTitor » 07 May 2017 05:22

kiranA wrote:
Supratik wrote:Please don't post garbage. More than 100 new thermal power plants in various stages of implementation are lying idle world wide as countries are moving into clean energy. Thermal capacity in India is not being utilized fully although coal is now available in sufficient amounts. Huge deals are being made in solar and wind energy in India at par with thermal. Whether they will be economically viable remains to be seen. Thermal is the most polluting way to produce energy. India has emission commitments in producing clean energy. As for nuclear energy, Both the American and French companies are in black. The Japanese won't sell. So it is going to be Russian and domestic.


how is it garbage ? coal is not available in india because india does not mine properly. Tariff is just a part of the equation - solar will come when sun wants to shine and wind will come when wind likes to blow not when people want it. Also they mess up transmission and induce unnecessary complications in pricing. Green commitments can wait - India needs to have a basic economic capacity for reliable electricity.

India has around 300-320 clear days a year! There is no shortage of sunlight. In fact, its quite the opposite, it is so hot throughout the year due to the lack of clouds and rain.

Nuclear energy can be used as a base load as it is steady and lasts 30+ years. Longer term, we can move to fusion and various storage systems.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby JohnTitor » 07 May 2017 05:28

Mort Walker wrote:Thermal power can also come from natural gas. What we need is to have a base load capacity that will get us through economic growth in to 2030. From there we can have the "green energy" in the mix to take care of peak load. The goal should be no more than Rs. 3/- per unit for residential use and no more than Rs. 2/- per unit for industrial and commercial use.

In the quest for green we forget the west developed with very cheap power. Without cheap power, India will NEVER develop.

Except, we can't afford to pollute our air. Air pollution is a major health issue as it stands today in india, what with all the diesel cars, trucks and busses spewing fumes. This is directly linked to cancer. Air pollution is known to cause damage to the immune, endocrine and reproductive systems.

Its not about doing what the west asks or playing second fiddle. This has direct consequences of those who live in india. Is that the sort of environment you would want your kids to grow up in?

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby hanumadu » 07 May 2017 08:25

kiranA wrote:
Supratik wrote:Please don't post garbage. More than 100 new thermal power plants in various stages of implementation are lying idle world wide as countries are moving into clean energy. Thermal capacity in India is not being utilized fully although coal is now available in sufficient amounts. Huge deals are being made in solar and wind energy in India at par with thermal. Whether they will be economically viable remains to be seen. Thermal is the most polluting way to produce energy. India has emission commitments in producing clean energy. As for nuclear energy, Both the American and French companies are in black. The Japanese won't sell. So it is going to be Russian and domestic.


how is it garbage ? coal is not available in india because india does not mine properly. Tariff is just a part of the equation - solar will come when sun wants to shine and wind will come when wind likes to blow not when people want it. Also they mess up transmission and induce unnecessary complications in pricing. Green commitments can wait - India needs to have a basic economic capacity for reliable electricity.


Your claims of insufficient coal are at complete odds with recent developments. There is no shortage of coal in India or the world. Coal mines are closing and coal companies are declaring bankruptcy the world over for lack of demand.
You should also find out the price of solar power for the latest auction in India. And if Modi's ptarget of 175 GW of renewable energy by 2022 is achieved, there will be no need for additional coal plants in India according to reports.

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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby hanumadu » 07 May 2017 08:38

^^^More predictions of lack of demand or viability for coal plants. Even now many loans to coal plants have become NPAs for lack of PPAs.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/energy/power/thermal-power-plants-capacity-utilisation-to-drop-to-48-by-2022/articleshow/56073709.cms
All coal-based thermal power plants need to brace for a drastic fall in capacity utilisation to as low as 48% by 2022, as additional non-thermal electricity generation capacities come on stream, the Central Electricity Authority has warned.
..
According to the CEA, the expected installed capacity from different fuel types at the end of 2021-22 in base case works out to 523 gigawatts, including 50 GW of coal-based capacity currently under construction.
..
As of October 2016, the national capacity utilisation for these units declined to 60% against 67% a year earlier. Utilisation of plants used to be around 80% in 2007-08.



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