India's Power Sector

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Dileep
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Dileep » 05 Apr 2020 19:44

So, we started seeing "power grid experts" in social and antisocial media, right along with the bunch of "Infectious disease experts" hain jee?

My cousin (who started our 'hereditary trade' (kula thozhil in mallu and Tamil) of engineering. Before him, we were farmers) is an expert in this field for his entire career and retired a couple of years ago from power grid corp. He laughed at the opinion of all these "experts" and refused to even talk about it.

When loads go down, the generating stations 'throttle back'. The load dispatch will decide which one does what extent. Once load increases, they will 'throttle up' taking more load. Happens every day, every hour, all the time, mostly automagically these days. The company I worked at USA used to build fiber optic communication infra for this automation.

A grid failure is entirely different. If the generating stations lose 'sync', they will take a bit of process to bring back online. For example, if the regional grids are isolated, bringing them back to sync will take some careful maneuvering.

nandakumar
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby nandakumar » 05 Apr 2020 19:54

Dileep wrote:So, we started seeing "power grid experts" in social and antisocial media, right along with the bunch of "Infectious disease experts" hain jee?

My cousin (who started our 'hereditary trade' (kula thozhil in mallu and Tamil) of engineering. Before him, we were farmers) is an expert in this field for his entire career and retired a couple of years ago from power grid corp. He laughed at the opinion of all these "experts" and refused to even talk about it.

When loads go down, the generating stations 'throttle back'. The load dispatch will decide which one does what extent. Once load increases, they will 'throttle up' taking more load. Happens every day, every hour, all the time, mostly automagically these days. The company I worked at USA used to build fiber optic communication infra for this automation.

A grid failure is entirely different. If the generating stations lose 'sync', they will take a bit of process to bring back online. For example, if the regional grids are isolated, bringing them back to sync will take some careful maneuvering.

Just for context. During English Premier League football season practically every household in England (roughly 10 million) Is hooked on to watching the football ball match. At half time they diligently get up and switch on the electric kettle to make tea. That is a 10,000 MW spike in power demand.

Mort Walker
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Apr 2020 01:11

Where is the grid collapse that so many power experts/epidemiologists predicted? :roll:

suryag
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby suryag » 06 Apr 2020 01:24

You illiterate/ignorant Mortji the Mudi request wasnt followed hence no grid collapse

Picklu
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Picklu » 06 Apr 2020 04:03

https://twitter.com/RajKSinghIndia/status/1246844612951412736?s=20
The demand went down from 117300 Megawatts at 2049 hrs to 85300 Megawatts till 2109 hrs; that is a reduction of 32000 Megawatts. Then it started increasing. Frequency was maintained within a band of 49.7 to 50. 26 Hz, which means the voltage was kept stable.


The above was Tweeted by

Code: Select all

Minister of State (IC) Power and New & Renewable Energy, MOS in the Ministry of Skill Development and Entrepreneurship, GOI. Office: @OfficeOfRKSingh


It can not be more official than this.

Our power grid consumption in normal times are 270+ GW. The system working at 117 GW is operating at roughly 43% capacity.

Even at this level, it could go down to 31% i.e. a drop of staggering 28%

Please tell me a single system any one of you have designed/created/operated that is capable of handling such fluctuations within matter of 10/15 minutes.

This is a bloody 28% drop on a system already running at 43% capacity!!!
Beyond any back of the envelop calculations thrown around for switching off light bulbs!!!! Yeah, right! 2-3% indeed!!!

As I said, it was really a stress test of the system; and a pretty brutal one.

The close involvement of the minister himself is the proof that there were a deeper agenda behind this.

And the communication from the minister himself publicly on Twitter with this result also is part of our strategic deterrent communication.

Kind of like Vajpayee declaration of laughing Buddha,

We are declaring to the whole world the capacity and capabilities of our power distribution infra and its resilience

That our power infra, even when running below 50% capacity, can still handle a further 28% drop in demand without any glitch.

Any nation trying to go against us have to be ready to handle an adversary of this caliber. Our essential infrastructures can take a lot of damage and still remain standing to dash out retribution. We are not as weak as some of the OECD nations try to project.

Last time, when the US and Russia were busy with Cuban missile crisis , our northern neighbor took advantage.

Now,when the world is down with corona, they better not try another with a Doklam type instigation.

From that perspective, the above tweet is as significant as the news of laughing Buddha, Agni 5 and ASAT tests and Arihant going operational petrol.

Not getting this and restricting this to petty politics is not really the caliber of BRF.

Picklu wrote:I have a gut feeling that this is also a calculated risk taken by the govt to stress test our power distribution infrastructure using this Corona opportunity of lower usage due to industrial shutdowns. Such opportunities do not come every day.

Every modern day corporate does this using "chaos monkey"/"simian army"/"DR and BCP drill"/"Penetration testing".

We did such a stress test for our finance and accounting infra via demonitization.

Corona is already doing such a test of our public health infra.

We have done a test of our public communication effectiveness test via previous "clap for 5 mins" exercise.

Now, we will test our power grid stress test.

Will there be issues? Off course, the whole point is to find the weak links in the chains.

But, we will come out "Anti Fragile" from each of these tests, to use the term coined by Taleb.

sudarshan
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby sudarshan » 06 Apr 2020 04:32

Picklu wrote:...


Very interesting indeed. But this is a demand drop of 28%. Whereas in a war-time situation there would be a supply hit. I.e., capacity being taken violently offline, and the remaining capacity having to take up the demand. Does the above stress test apply to that scenario as well, or is it merely hinting that the grid is sophisticated to take any type of scenario?

Picklu
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Picklu » 06 Apr 2020 09:16

sudarshan wrote:
Picklu wrote:...


Very interesting indeed. But this is a demand drop of 28%. Whereas in a war-time situation there would be a supply hit. I.e., capacity being taken violently offline, and the remaining capacity having to take up the demand. Does the above stress test apply to that scenario as well, or is it merely hinting that the grid is sophisticated to take any type of scenario?


After 9 past 9, the demand came back and the grid scaled up ....

Mollick.R
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 06 Apr 2020 12:36

A few more interesting insights presented by this gent....

https://twitter.com/DrTongia/status/1246869020139114496

Visit twitter for images (graphs etc), putting only text here.


Rahul Tongia
@DrTongia

1/n) #9pm9minutes PRELMINARY Analysis
http://carbontracker.in timestamps are limited!
Key points:
1)Total demand fall DUE TO EVENT was ?~29 GW.
2)Demand fall started before 9 pm
3)Most balancing was done by hydro [BIG TIME]
4)Grid rise (aka “recovery”) finished ~10:30 pm

(2/n) Demand fall was not just due to lighting.
Too much fall, and some of load fall began as early as 8:45. All evenings “normally” decline 3.5-5.5 GW after peak ~7:30. Fall after 8:45 was measurably more than normal trend. See http://carbontracker.in for other days.


(3/n) [speculation] Folks were switching off loads to protect their devices. Really doubt so much load is lighting! That too participating.
Fall during the 9 minutes was less than the total event - if one wants to estimate "household lighting" in India.

(4/n) Ramp rates are difficult to calculate without better data (we have 3-6 minute time stamps only), but 16.658 GW fall over 3 minutes indicates (with some time error possibilities) a ramp down of 5.55 GW/min, or 4.85%/minute. IMPRESSIVE.

(5/n) Ramping down continues after 9:06 pm. Suggests something more than pure lighting participation (?). Other loads? Feeder management? Or maybe just time-stamp issues. Await full analysis by
@PosocoIndia

(6/n) Load return wasn’t swift – modest until 9:15, then rose, with continued slight rise for a while. See a mini-peak 10:30 (later than previous days).

(7/n) RAMPING - For the most aggressive time block, HYDRO provided LOTS of grid support, both directions. Gas was impressive – not in aggregate as it has a low base but 3.5 relative rate of coal when normalized for operating capacity.


(8/n) Few observations: RE was either curtailed/added OR the gods aligned quite well for the most part! Adding load was more controlled perhaps.
[Speculation] People may switch off in advance compared to turn back on with a delay (?). Consumers alone may not explain rise times.


(9/n) Overall, a great performance, likely not just
@PosocoIndia
but with state LDCs as well. BRAVO.

This also bodes well for grid flexibility (high RE, maybe) – BUT NOT if this involved too much feeder management! Hydro was at a sweet spot – not yet “must run” ala monsoon.

(n/n) - Shoutout to not just essential services providers, but also my colleagues for http://carbontracker.in and data analysis/visualization - Utkarsh Dalal, M. Tabish Parray, and Rishabh Trivedi.


ADDENDUM: The fall may be higher than 29 GW, which was based on lower-resolution data we collect at http://carbontracker.in.
@OfficeOfRKSingh
tweeted 32 GW. Even correcting for any trend decay each evening, it's still more than 29 GW. In one word - IMPRESSIVE grid management.



PDF of whole thread is made and uploaded here.

https://pdfhost.io/v/E0gyupNbg_Thread_by_DrTongia__1_n_9pm9minutes_PRELMINARY_Analysis_Electricity_Gridpdf.pdf

sudarshan
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby sudarshan » 06 Apr 2020 19:07

Picklu wrote:After 9 past 9, the demand came back and the grid scaled up ....


That's right, I missed that part. Thanks.

Mollick.R
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Re: India's Power Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 16 May 2020 00:59

Revised tariff policy likely to be rolled out within a month, says Power Minister R K Singh
PTI|Last Updated: May 15, 2020, 08.08 PM IST


New Delhi: The revised tariff policy has been cleared by a group of ministers and it is likely to be implemented within a month, Power Minister R K Singh said on Friday. The policy provides for steps like penalty for unscheduled power cuts by distribution companies.

"The tariff policy which had been sent to Union Cabinet, was referred to an informal group of ministers (GoM). That GoM has cleared it. So we propose to take it to the next Cabinet (meeting)....and hopefully it should be there within a month," Singh said.

He was speaking at a digital interaction with CEOs from the power and renewable energy sectors, under the CII's Energizing India Series.

The revised tariff policy provides for penalty for unscheduled power cuts, except in the case of technical faults or act of God (natural calamities).

The government intends to provide '24X7 Power to All' at affordable rates. Therefore, there is a provision in the tariff to cap transmission and distribution losses. Once the tariff policy is approved, the discoms would not be allowed to pass on these losses beyond 15 per cent.

The policy would also encourage time of the day tariff where consumer would be charged more during peak hours. This would also enable the consumers to reduce their electricity bill by consuming more electricity during non-peak hours.

Talking about the recent relief given to discoms reeling under financial stress due to slump in demand amid the lockdown, Singh said, "We have asked our central public sector undertaking (CPSU) power generators to defer fixed charges from the discoms. After the economy opens up, those fixed charges would be paid by discoms in equal installments without interest. This would be huge relief."

"We have asked our CPSUs (gencos) to give 20 to 25 per cent discount to discoms on cost of power. We want discoms to pass it on to consumers. This will be reflected in the first bill of the consumers after economy reopens (after lockdown is over)," he added.

He also told the industry representatives that the power ministry is making open access simpler as any such application would be processed within 30 days under the new tariff policy.

He also talked about removing custom barriers to give incentives to solar and wind energy equipment manufacturing.

There would be higher penalty for not complying with RPO (renewable purchase obligation) and the states would start bidding for clean energy projects themselves, he added.

The industry representative made a case for bringing power under the Goods and Service Tax (GST) regime and also asked for indirect subsidy for setting up clean energy projects.

They were of the view that direct subsidy is probabilistic and not definite, so the government should offer differential tariff for clean energy projects.

They also pitched to enhancing the deadline for project development in view of the coronavirus lockdown.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/power/revised-tariff-policy-likely-to-be-rolled-out-within-a-month-says-power-minister-r-k-singh/articleshow/75761990.cms?utm_source=ETTopNews&utm_medium=HPTN&utm_campaign=AL1&utm_content=23


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