Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

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deejay
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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby deejay » 25 Oct 2015 13:32

Bade wrote:Other than Chandigarh are there any other examples of even half successful attempts in India to make a modern city from the scratch. I thought Gandhinagar was one such attempt done a long time ago. But having visited there was not impressed. Have yet to go to Chandigarh.

Can any lessons from the Chandigarh experience be of value for new cities ?


The Tatas run part of Jamshedpur, Steel city part of Bokaro, Bhilai etc are excellent examples.

In Jamshedpur, Tatas have a company called JUSCO. Now, JUSCO undertakes large scale public works like relaying electricty transmission, water pipes, rain water harvesting, water treatment and other public related upgrade and maintenance. JUSCO is providing support in non Tata areas too and property rates tend to jump if JUSCO is supporting the given area.

Such initiatives are in keeping with the very best of urban infrastructure standards and also a key to developing towns and cities with similar access to amenities.

Bokaro Steel City, though well planned appears to be well past its prime because the steel plant itself is past its prime. Unless the plant revives, the city will whither.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Bade » 25 Oct 2015 17:51

Steel city planning experience will be useful for settlements which can be compared to the suburbs in the west. In some sense it is happening even in India in largish private enclaves.

There is no going back to local culture to find solutions to modern mega city needs. They had no cars and bikes in Mohenjodaro. Solutions already exist in the west and south-east and need to be copied with minor modifications. Nothing wrong with that. If we can have metros for cities and other public transport planned well in advance it will definitely alleviate the transport requirements of super dense parts as they develop in the future.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 26 Oct 2015 10:31

You misunderstand. Smart cities are not about cars and bikes. Its about ideas. Its about citizens.When old European cities came into being there was no concept of smart cities then or till recent past. USA might have lot of planned cities but they also did not have this idea of smart cities. I suspect this idea of smart cities came from Smart Grid concept. So what you need to do is to find out the defining principles of Smart cities irrespective of culture or period. There are many places to begin with. One is Barcelona conducts Smart Cities Expo and conferences supported by world bank , every year. I have attended some. Then you have some examples of city rejuvenation schemes resulting in some quarters of european cities getting make over. Paris itself is a planned city with extensive drainage and sewerage network. Mostly getting decrepit underneath.

Most of them are on geometrical patterns as I have seen. Could be wrong. Pyongyang is another sanitised example of planned city. Seoul is another one. In India we have fractal development. Most of the planned township in India are developed around workmen's quarters with market, entertainment, transportation hub and public places facilities all designed and constructed by the Plant authorities and maintained by them. In Bokaro we used to have secluded Russian quarters one. Off limit to the rest. The idea of such self contained living quarters came from USSR. The nearby area called chas developed in true Indian way. Same is the story of Jamshedpur and any other steel plant cities. One could also design Walled quarters, make smart ghettos etc. In fact chandni chowk area used to be planned one and with unplanned growth it now gives ugly look.

So planning transport alone is going to be herculean task and may not even constitute all ingradients of smart cities as you might define.

Then PGCIL had once given a presentation on smart city ( a pilot project) which had many aspects outlined. But ultimately they had to restrict themselves to Smart grid concept.


So unless you define what constitutes smart cities for India one is unlikely to make progress in right direction and will imitate European cities which has foundation in strong local and city governance and public participation and civic behaviour as needed by them.


And I am not sure if we need super dense cities or encourage more Indians to become NRIs in countries where land and resources are available in plenty and contain population by better education, job opportunities and entrepreneurship. Afterall we have ( even within India) been migrating to places and making them as new homes. And whether we will have resources to sustain super dense cities which could prove to be environmentally disastrous.


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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 03 Nov 2015 17:37

@chanakya,

Visit the smart city thread on SSC to get a idea of what is being planned. Will alleviate paranoia.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 04 Nov 2015 14:25

Not sure what or whose paranOia your are talking about and how ssc would help. Are we averse to discuss it here that we have to rush to some other forum?

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 04 Nov 2015 17:57

There is too much material on that thread to transplant here. But if you go through it you will get a good idea of what is being thought of.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 04 Nov 2015 19:33

Well I too have too much materials on Smart City to be posted here in toto. What to do sir. can't go around reading too many fora. This one is good enough and we can have original discussion , even though limited in scope, here itself. And to begin with we should know Smart City means for us Indians and we have a history or lack of it.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 04 Nov 2015 20:10

Sorry, I have nothing to say about the directions your previous posts seemed to take which I found irrelevant to the topic. So no more from me on it. However, I think other members interested in the concept will find it educative if they are interested to find out what all ideas are being thought of regarding smart cities.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby SaiK » 05 Nov 2015 04:07

I think what is important is to consider modeling future urban areas for India. We should start experimenting building newer cities like what CBN is doing, and at the same time get these model cities planned first at smaller scale, but in lego design and architecture so that it can expand itself on the core city infrastructure design.

we should take up villages NSEW zones, and build couple of villages to modern facilities. we should think about services for basic needs - water, electricity, data, hygiene, healthcare, roads, rails, ports, industries, residential areas, living style, convenience, traffic management, distribution, security, quality of air, pollution, public transportation, civil administration, disaster management, emergency response, infra and capacity/growth planning, etc.. the whole world of 360* view applied to a small village say covering about 100-300 acres of land.

unless we get our hands dirty to improve, we will not get the experience and expertise established to establish model cities of the future.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Vriksh » 05 Nov 2015 06:57

One key idea of Indian smart cities could be to implement decentralized waste treatment, recycling and food production. Solid waste and liquid waste should be processed sanitarily within short distance of those producing it ~300m. This encourages the concept of point of generation pollution control, reduces investments (CAPEX and OPEX) in transport of materials to central locations where currently the waste is landfilled or simply left untreated into environment.

I envisage the following concepts
1. decentralized sewage treatment plants (no connections to sewers to be provided)... reduces water requirement by 50% to 90% (if we can engineer Singapore type NeWater concept.
2. Vermicomposting of Biodegradable solid waste (reduces need for transport of wastes to landfills)
3. Roof gardens and vertical green walls on facades to improve greenery. This could improve food security by growing vegetables in combination of 1 and 2
4. Rain water harvesting and permeable pavements

Some numbers below
USA in contrast allocates 2,000sqft/person for roads/pavement
Typical residential space requires 100 sqft/person
Soil Bio Technology (SBT) based Sewage water recycling requires 1.2 sqft/person at ground level (source IITB)
Vermiculture/Aerobic composting of Biodegradable solid waste requires 1 sqft/person can be done on terraces (source IITB)
Growing Food for complete self sufficiency requires about 500 sqft/person and full time staff may be improbable in an urban setting unless this is provided in the urban planning masterplans. Still if the facades and terraces are farmed then atleast 5-10% of food especially herbs and veggies can be locally sourced. source : John Jeavons (How To Raise More Vegetables) and Jim Wilson (Victory Garden South)

It appears that if we can use less land for transport networks we will have more land available for all activities. Therefore concepts like aerial ropeways/bridges to connect people from building to building directly without using land must be seriously considered.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 12 Dec 2015 19:15

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/k ... 56395.html
Kolkata: In a first for a south Asian city, Kolkata today became part of a worldwide network of C40 cities which collectively work on addressing urban sustainability challenges.

West Bengal government today signed a Memorandum of Understanding with C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group which has over 80 cities as members including New York, London, Shanghai and Singapore.

“It is a partnership to share experience and expertise on urban development issues,” state Urban Development Minister Firhad Hakim said, adding that the city incorporates environment sustainability features into urban planning.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Suraj » 25 Jan 2016 21:38

The first set of 20 smart cities are due to be revealed tomorrow:
France will partner India to build three 'smart' cities
France will help India develop Chandigarh, Nagpur and Puducherry as smart cities. Agence Française de Developpement (French Development Agency) signed memoranda of understanding with the government of Union territory of Chandigarh, and government of Union territory of Puducherry and the Maharashtra government here on Sunday in the presence of French President Francois Hollande and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Chandigarh, designed by the French architect Le Corbusier half a century ago as a model city, is spread across 114 sq km and the urban infrastructure and green belt of the city provide it a distinguished status among India's planned cities.

On January 26, Modi is set to announce the official list of 20 smart cities to be developed in the first phase.

A delegation of 26 CEOs from France travelled to Chandigarh with Hollande and had discussions on CEO forums to explore partnerships in renewable energy, defence, information technology and aerospace.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Suraj » 29 Jan 2016 10:02

Smart city list
Star city of the show: Bhubaneswar gets top rank

Smartest state: Madhya Pradesh. 3 of its cities (Bhopal, Indore, Jabalpur) in top 20

Runners up with 2 cities each: Gujarat (Ahmedabad, Surat), Rajasthan (Jaipur, Udaipur), Maharashtra (Pune, Solapur), Karnataka (Devanagere, Belagavi), Andhra Pradesh (Visakhapatnam, Kakinada), Tamil Nadu (Chennai, Coimbatore)

Others who made it to top 20: NDMC area (Delhi), Guwahati (Assam), Ludhiana (Punjab), Kochi (Kerala)

States left out in round one: Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal

Other misses: PM 's LS constituency Varanasi at no. 96

Funding: First tranche of central funding of Rs 200-cr each to come in FY16 for those who meet all criteria

Factors considered: Citizen participation, feasibility, plan, vision and performance

How to smarten up: 18 have proposed retrofitting, 1 redevelopment, and 1 a combination of the two

Money to be spent on: Intelligent transport solutions ; management of water, energy, solid waste; e-governance; smart health and education services

Definition: A city that enables a decent life to citizens, sustainable environment and adoption of smart solutions

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby disha » 30 Jan 2016 00:47

^^ Thanks Suraj.

Others., please download this PDF and go through it. If you have ideas, suggestions and comments - please put it on MyGov.in

https://mygov.in/sites/default/files/mygov_1449143760190667.pdf

^^ That is the proposal by Surat Municipal. VV - Below is for Ahmedabad

https://mygov.in/sites/default/files/mygov_1448907073291385.pdf

And here is for Bhubaneshwar http://www.smartcitybhubaneswar.gov.in/project
http://www.smartcitybhubaneswar.gov.in/uploadDocuments/Stage_1_Bhubaneswar_Submission.pdf

I found Surat, as short-concise and more to the fact business like and for Bhubhaneshwar - complete-sleek and better presented. For ahmedabad, I think I got only the pre-presentation.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby disha » 30 Jan 2016 03:53

Check out the documentary for Bhubaneshwar at : http://swarajyamag.com/biz/bhubaneswars-winning-smart-city-plan/

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Suraj » 01 Feb 2016 22:02

Over $150 bn investments required for smart cities: Study
The Modi government’s vision of creating 100 smart cities will require an investment of about $150 billion in the next few years, with private sector being a significant contributor, says a report.

According to Deloitte, nearly $120 billion will come from the private sector.

The government has already initiated two programmes with an initial outlay of nearly $7.5 billion for the Smart Cities Mission and the Atal Mission for Rejuvenation of Urban Transformation (Amrut) for upgrading 500 existing cities.

“Even as funding for these smart cities is an area of concern, the major challenges remain with respect to the development of smart cities project management, government decision making and policy and regulatory framework,” Deloitte India Senior Director P N Sudarshan said.

The government recently announced the list of first 20 cities to be developed as 'smart cities' with Bhubaneswar topping the list followed by Pune, Jaipur, Surat, Kochi, Ahmedabad, Jabalpur, Vishakapatnam, Sholapur, Davangere, Indore, New Delhi, Coimbatore, Kakinada, Belagavi, Udaipur, Guwahati, Chennai, Ludhiana and Bhopal.

While several cities have made incremental investments in smart solutions, the challenge will be to replicate these on a larger scale, he said.


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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby NRao » 15 Apr 2017 07:19

deejay wrote:
Bade wrote:Other than Chandigarh are there any other examples of even half successful attempts in India to make a modern city from the scratch. I thought Gandhinagar was one such attempt done a long time ago. But having visited there was not impressed. Have yet to go to Chandigarh.

Can any lessons from the Chandigarh experience be of value for new cities ?


The Tatas run part of Jamshedpur, Steel city part of Bokaro, Bhilai etc are excellent examples.

In Jamshedpur, Tatas have a company called JUSCO. Now, JUSCO undertakes large scale public works like relaying electricty transmission, water pipes, rain water harvesting, water treatment and other public related upgrade and maintenance. JUSCO is providing support in non Tata areas too and property rates tend to jump if JUSCO is supporting the given area.

Such initiatives are in keeping with the very best of urban infrastructure standards and also a key to developing towns and cities with similar access to amenities.

Bokaro Steel City, though well planned appears to be well past its prime because the steel plant itself is past its prime. Unless the plant revives, the city will whither.



Just saw this.

First, Chandigarh was successful.

New Bombay was another example of a brand new city.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby tandav » 11 May 2017 07:10

Vriksh wrote:One key idea of Indian smart cities could be to implement decentralized waste treatment, recycling and food production. Solid waste and liquid waste should be processed sanitarily within short distance of those producing it ~300m. This encourages the concept of point of generation pollution control, reduces investments (CAPEX and OPEX) in transport of materials to central locations where currently the waste is landfilled or simply left untreated into environment.

I envisage the following concepts
1. decentralized sewage treatment plants (no connections to sewers to be provided)... reduces water requirement by 50% to 90% (if we can engineer Singapore type NeWater concept.
2. Vermicomposting of Biodegradable solid waste (reduces need for transport of wastes to landfills)
3. Roof gardens and vertical green walls on facades to improve greenery. This could improve food security by growing vegetables in combination of 1 and 2
4. Rain water harvesting and permeable pavements

Some numbers below
USA in contrast allocates 2,000sqft/person for roads/pavement
Typical residential space requires 100 sqft/person
Soil Bio Technology (SBT) based Sewage water recycling requires 1.2 sqft/person at ground level (source IITB)
Vermiculture/Aerobic composting of Biodegradable solid waste requires 1 sqft/person can be done on terraces (source IITB)
Growing Food for complete self sufficiency requires about 500 sqft/person and full time staff may be improbable in an urban setting unless this is provided in the urban planning masterplans. Still if the facades and terraces are farmed then atleast 5-10% of food especially herbs and veggies can be locally sourced. source : John Jeavons (How To Raise More Vegetables) and Jim Wilson (Victory Garden South)

It appears that if we can use less land for transport networks we will have more land available for all activities. Therefore concepts like aerial ropeways/bridges to connect people from building to building directly without using land must be seriously considered.


So in effect we develop recycling / sanitation parks attached to every community of say 10000 souls where scientific and high quality recycling of water, conversion of food waste to compost, plastics and metals recycling is pursued by private entreprenuers and charged to the community via appropriate mechanisms such as municipal or charges. Treated water can be used for municipal services such as gardening or road washing or dust control.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 10 Jun 2017 18:45

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ng/529509/
Urban Dreams
Rollo Romig | California Sunday
“The three titans of India at its mo­ment of independence had divergent visions of the country’s urban future. Mohandas Gandhi insisted that ‘the true Indian civilization is in the Indian villages.’ B. R. Ambedkar, champion of Dalits, the so-called untouchables, disdained the Indian village as ‘a sink of localism, a den of ignorance’ and urged lower-caste Indians to begin anew in cities. Likewise, but in service of his industrial dreams, Jawaharlal Nehru, the republic’s first prime minister, endorsed an urban ideal ‘unfettered by the traditions of the past.’

Gandhi is losing this argument badly. The consulting firm McKinsey & Company has estimated that at its current rate of urbanization, India will need to build the equivalent of ‘a new Chicago every year.’ Most of those Chicagos will materialize by expanding already existing cities. A handful will be built from scratch, and Amaravati is one of them. So why this particular Chicago, at this particular time, in this particular place? The short answer is that in 2014, the state of Andhra Pradesh split in two, and the new state, called Telangana, got the capital. So what’s left of Andhra Pradesh needs a new capital city ASAP.”

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 10 Jun 2017 21:11

Slow transformation of Bangalore from a third world city to a modern one. If you want your city to change tell your city administrators about Tendersure.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 23&page=66

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby vina » 14 Jun 2017 12:01

Hari Seldon wrote:
A tad sad to see critical areas like having our own payments gateway + clearing house (RuPay), online transactions platform (UPI, BHIM etc), solar module production and R&D etc not getting sufficient govt push - lotsa opportunity for new ideas, innovation, startups, capital etc abound once these enablers hit critical mass. Only.


Yawn.. All these WILL crash and burn and remain still born , precisely for the reason that these are Govt controlled and operated and "pushed".

India doesnt work that way. It is a truism in India that whatever the Govt touches crashes and burns, especially in the business side. In India Govt DOES NOT WORK, while in Cheen and other Asian countries, Govts actually work and that is why their Govt run command and control stuff actually works.

Case in point, just a very basic simple thing like actually cleaning the streets and enforcing public cleanliness and more importantly traffic rules. India , unfortunately happens to be around the FILTHIEST countries in terms of public spaces. Our streets are littered with garbage, our people have no second thoughts of littering, of cleaning their houses and throwing the garbage on to the streets, of spitting wherever they want , of relieving themselves without regard, of drinking tea in paper cups in the street in front of a shop or someone else's house and then throwing the cups right there after they are done drinking.

I wont even talk anything here about driving and traffic discipline.

It doesnt HAPPEN in ANY other Asian country (to the east of us). Does it happen even in Sri Lanka ? NO. The country is clean and spotless. Traffic is disciplined. Does it happen in Thailand ? NOPE. The country is clean, Bangkok, even the poorer areas are clean, side streets are clean, people don't spit wherever they want, don't litter , and more importantly , Bangkok traffic while HEAVY is disciplined and not the absolute chaos. You don't hear honking. You don't hear people driving randomly.

Okay, you go to Koh Samui, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Ayutthaya, other places outside Bangkok, same story. Go to the grand palace in Bangkok, it and it's surrounding areas are spotless, clean, no garbage, no crush of random hustlers. Go to Mysore palace , the palace itself will be clean (why so?), while the surroundings are a god awful mess (why ? Palace clean but surrounding area is a mess ?)

You go to Cambodia ? Far far cleaner and no garbage on the streets. People don't spit on streets, driving more civilised than in India.

Why is all this in the economics thread ? That is because Govt there is competent. They can get the simply basics like cleaning up the street, enforcing basic laws in littering on zoning, and indeed traffic enforcement right.

In India, govts in any level are so incompetent, they can't get the basics right. They can't have litter free streets, they can't police people people littering. They can't enforce traffic.

It is this, if they are so incompetent that they can't even clear garbage and enforce littering and driving laws, WHAT will they do with more important and complex things like Business ? Cant happen. Wont happen.

In India, unless these are driven by private groups and the govt simply keeps it's flea picking hands and dumb incompetence (more so with the so called "regulators") out and stays out, nothing will happen.

Dont extend the "Asian" model to India. We are a different people. We are not them in that respect. Our Govt is supremely incompetent . The only thing we share with them is corruption. While they are corrupt (like us), their Govt actually WORKS. Our's doesn't . So you are far better off depending on "God" (however mythical that is), than on the Govt here.

Note - This has NOTHING to do with economic prosperity. We are where Thailand was in 2005 roughly, in terms of per capita income. Is India TODAY, as clean and well maintained and with traffic as Thailand was a dozen years ago ? No way. In another 15 years, we will probably be definitely where Thailand is TODAY in terms of per capita income and indeed might even catch up with Thailand shortly after that. But will India, 20 years HENCE be actually as clean and neat and traffic as well regulated as in Thailand. NO WAY IN HELL. We will probably be 3 times the per capita of SriLanka some day soon, but will our streets be as clean as Sri Lanka's ? No. Will the traffic be civilised ? No. India will get there economy wise thanks to it's enterprising people , but the govt as always will continue to be corrupt and incompetent.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Singha » 14 Jun 2017 15:40

have to agree with Vina on public order and cleanliness

2008 - bkk and phuket - tallies with his observations. did not see a single traffic cop in phuket but red light==Halt and our drivers stopped, everyone stopped incl some tough looking hombre types in pickup trucks. whether thru civic sense or fear, people abide by laws there.

2009 - langkawi and singapura. langkawi again very clean and orderly. and there are plenty of poor people there tucked away in villages. poor as a pass to flout civic laws does not wash. singapura ... :) on way from airport to hotel, someone merged a little bit dangerously ahead of our driver..he immediately calls in a complaint. another driver a old man fairly high on CT theories claimed that police often deploy civil clothes officers as couples in parks and roads to spy on violators and call in uniformed cops to detain. the guy was so scared of the police.....compare to our taxi drivers who cross red lights at 12 noon without a care. singapura has some of the best urban infra in world so not worth comparing.

2016 - mauritius - spick and span orderly roads and traffic. and this is a country half or more of the pop is from much maligned Bihar - hardly a few gens removed. every village has piped water and functional free healthcare. they even patched up my FIL multiple times for free after he fell and gashed his hand. the doctor had got educated on schol in india :)

we lost the plot on civil planning a long way back and are drifting rudderless...with fitful efforts like a swank metro or airport surrounded by chaotic areas.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Singha » 14 Jun 2017 18:25

Another much needed change brought by rera....

The earlier practice of including balcony, terrace, verandas, flower beds and void spaces within the meaning of carpet area, by unscrupulous developers, will now come to an end.
In certain cases, corner apartments, or other apartments placed at certain advantageous or disadvantageous positions, usually used to get a little more or less carpet area. While the apartments at advantageous positions that had greater carpet area were always priced at a premium, the ones which lost some carpet area were never sold at a discount, as the ‘missing’ carpet area was usually obfuscated in the super built-up area.
Good design and efficiency will now become crucial. Previously, an inefficient design, which used too much of common area space, would fare the same as a good design, as both could have the same super built-up area, but different carpet areas.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 14 Jun 2017 21:16

All these countries were once dumpyards including USA. London used to be under continuous thick smog. Instead of just screaming from the rooftops we don't have this and we don't have that try at least backing someone who has vision. It took Singapore 20-30 years to clean up and it is just a city. Back the guy who is attempting it instead and you know who I am talking about.

I am also not worried about China hugely inspite of the daily warnings of doom. We will be at par with China n the next 30 years. In science we do not consider them to be very advanced than us except in some areas and even there the gap is closing. The GDP gap is going to close. The per capita income is going to get closer. The cities are going to get shinier and cleaner. What more do you need?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Marten » 14 Jun 2017 22:22

GD, the benchmark would be Mumbai in ten years. If one takes a look at the redevelopment plan and the master plans, the control is back in the hands of the planning authorities. It reflects even in the relative better managed traffic than even Pune or Bangalore. There is hope -- as in, whenever the core of Bangalore undergoes redevelopment, there might be sliver of hope that city planning rules will finally be applied. That kind of shiny city is possible perhaps 25-40 years from now. We might not see it, but in terms of the economy itself, redevelopment will be a massive contributor.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Jun 2017 22:41

Singha wrote:Good design and efficiency will now become crucial.


I don’t think it will be that easy. As it is India is way over regulated with all manner of rules for everything. Why is government getting into regulating Balcony, houseplants, common area etc. This is absurd.

What will happen is developer will re-label balcony to ‘over-look room’, cut a bigger hafta to the ‘inspector’, charge customer another ayram+ and the dhama-dhum will go on…

People know what they are getting, they are not fools. If you don’t like it don’t buy it. If people prefer good design and efficiency , then they will get good design and efficiency. Right now I don’t even think it is top 10.

You want to know what the #1 question everyone asks about real-estate in Chennai.

What is the water situation? All else is secondary.

I take that back, all else starts from #11 on wards...

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 14 Jun 2017 22:58

no. people don't know what they are getting. they are told something and then given something and they have no recourse, until now

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Jun 2017 23:02

Well. Why are you buying sight unseen then. This is bad decision.
Everywhere in the world such buyers are taken for a royal ride, and deserve to be taken for a royal ride.
No one can protect a careless customer, esp. if they are trying to make a quick buck or trying to be cheap.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 14 Jun 2017 23:07

yes, let's blame the victim.

Supratik
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 14 Jun 2017 23:08

Most first time buyers buy under construction units. Duping customers is very common.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Sicanta » 14 Jun 2017 23:20


Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Jun 2017 23:39

Gus wrote:yes, let's blame the victim.


Ah! Yes the vaunted victim card. Saar come on you can do better.
-----------------

Supratik,

Yes I do know that. It is a bad business practice and no matter how many people do it.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 14 Jun 2017 23:48

of course, I forgot to put better arguments along the lines of "don’t like it don’t buy it" and "if you are too stupid to be duped, then you deserve to be duped". splendid arguments these.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 00:02

I never said ‘stupid’ so don’t make up stuff that is not true.
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The original comment was that design and efficiency will now become important. I said no way and no way should government be getting into such matters. People buying stuff sight unseen are asking for trouble. 'Caveat emptor' et al. No matter of laws is going to make that change.

You can have the last word if you want.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 15 Jun 2017 00:07

regulations can be viewed at from both sides...it is easy to rant against it, but when it is you on the receiving side of some malpractice , the first question you have is "isn't there some regulation about this " :lol:

from layman's terms - it is easy to buy a house (ease in terms of process involved, peace of mind, awareness and access of recourse etc) in US than in India. In India even the most sharp folks can be duped and without some sort of influence, cannot get any recourse to issues. One regulation is put out about this and already bringing the "regulations are red tape" spiel... :roll:

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 15 Jun 2017 00:11

you did not say stupid. You used better words such as careless, cheap, greedy, bad decision makers.

aka blaming the victim.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 01:16

Gus wrote:from layman's terms - it is easy to buy a house (ease in terms of process involved, peace of mind, awareness and access of recourse etc) in US than in India.


I will respond to this , since you bring in yet another segway, yes it is easy to buy a house in USA, only because regulations are relatively low. Build process is hard (codes+arch controls+expensive), buy process is easy, if expensive. Big reason it is easy is the very high turnover rate due to low regulation. In places with low turn over, NY City or Bay Area, all the chaos and misconduct of India levels returns.

That said, people get cheated all the time in USA. Newspapers all full of stories of people who get gipped. There are innumerable stories of builders building shoddy stuff or running away with money. I would say at India levels and above. And sorry, no, there is little to no recourse even in USA. In any settlement, the lawyers keep the bulk and the claimants get pennies on the dollar. Same thing applies here in the USA, buyer beware. Greed is not good. And don’t be careless or cheap if you don’t want to become a mark.
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This entire discussion is giving me a sense of déjà vu over the seat belts discussion we had many years ago. The gist of the seatbelt counter IIRC was that if only we had another 200 pages of rules and people would follow those traffic rules and we threw every law breaker into jail we would not need seat belts, i.e exercise due caution. I was baffled by the logic back then and remain baffled to this day.
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 15 Jun 2017 01:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gus » 15 Jun 2017 01:35

are you even aware of issues currently and what RERA act is about?

one provision is
The promoter of a real estate development firm has to maintain a separate escrow account for each of their projects. A minimum 70 per cent of the money from investors and buyers will have to be deposited. This money can only be used for the construction of the project and the cost borne towards the land.


I personally know folks who have suffered from issues where builder takes money and then puts this one on hold, and gets busy with another project.

are you going to say oops...greedy guys tut tut..buyer beware :roll:

another one
RERA requires builders to submit the original approved plans for their ongoing projects and the alterations that they made later.


again, I know folks who were shown something in plans and built something else in reality.

careless guy...should have gone and checked construction daily right?


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