Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

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Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 01:48

Gus wrote:I personally know folks who have suffered from issues where builder takes money and then puts this one on hold, and gets busy with another project.

are you going to say oops...greedy guys tut tut..buyer beware :roll:


So we are still doing badly written laws, that are open to interpretation and based on anecdotes I see. How in heaven name is this bank account thing going to be enforced. India has been doing stuff like this for donkeys years, over the protestations of folks like me, with little to show for it. Nothing will come of this either. Waste of time and effort and money.

And yes you should visit your construction site to inspect progress before you pay further, if you want to act as the financier. To fail to do the simple due diligence of visiting your project and then claiming the milk is spilt is pointless.

And also yes, sometimes it is best to cut your losses and walk away. Life moves on. Priorities change. Chalk it up to lessons learned. I just had the misfortune of doing this.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 02:11

Gus wrote:again, I know folks who were shown something in plans and built something else in reality.

careless guy...should have gone and checked construction daily right?


Did he have a permitted set of plans. Otherwise on what basis is this claim even going to be made.
--------------------------

BTW, Folks on BRF should never ever compare the USA to India or India to USA. These are two completely different animals. You should never say, oh look it is so easy to do X-----X in USA, so why can't it be easy to do Y-----Y in India. I can pretty much guarantee that what works in USA will not work in India and vice versa.

The reason for this is very simple. Most NRI folks have little understanding of the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to make things look easy in the USA. Folks from India walk into a new development and buy a nice house for $500,000, and they are like, this is so easy. Yes it is easy for you, because you don't see the blood sweat and tears of the past 15 years that went into making it look so easy. No one in their right mind thinks it’s the laws that made it happen. The reason it is easy is that there is an entire army of skilled professionals from code inspectors to Architects to Engineers to Planners to Electricians who pay attention to the same details across the nation making sure every single place operates the same way. The law is an a$$, let me tell you it less than useless. But it is the army of professionals who makes sure everything works correct per permitted plans. All changes are documented and permitted by the city. You know what happens if we fail even once, we lose our license.

In the absence of this army of motivated professionals, you are going nowhere. In IT lingo, one might as well sue Microsoft for changing some feature and pass laws on that basis.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 15 Jun 2017 08:37

Reform the judiciary and the economy does get reformed. One of the reasons why a 'developed' country is 'developed' is because of swift disposal of cases. Only in India does the lordships retire in summer.

Any infractions are quickly and proactively covered which keeps the civil contractors in check. Further., as an individual you can sue the city if the code is not followed and the city inspector has greased his palms (it does happen) and damages occur and are sought. In India when did a city get sued for a builder not following a fire code? What about the Uphaar tragedy and the criminal misconduct?

Point is the skilled "professionals" from code inspectors to Architects to Engineers to Planners to Electricians - pay attention to the details because even though the law is an a$$., the wielders of the law make sure that judgement is delivered fast within the confines of the law. And when people lose license or are in prison they do lose both time & money and sometimes significant lifestyle as well. Hence it is easier to pay attention to the detail rather than mess with law.

I generally take 4% GDP away from Indian Economy because its implementation of laws (or rather lack of it), dog biscuit industry & a rusty steel structure. 1% of India's GDP goes in providing dog biscuits and will be lessened when GST comes. Additional 1% goes behind the babooze or rather those babooze who make life difficult for all and sundry including their own and still think that they are part of the "steel framework that runs India" and 2% due to the lordships and their sheer inability to come up with soln. for swift disposition of cases.

Basically., executive and judiciary and taxation. The taxation and executive is on mend. It is the judiciary that needs to catch up.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby disha » 15 Jun 2017 08:45

vina wrote: India , unfortunately happens to be around the FILTHIEST countries in terms of public spaces. Our streets are littered with garbage, our people have no second thoughts of littering, of cleaning their houses and throwing the garbage on to the streets, of spitting wherever they want , of relieving themselves without regard, of drinking tea in paper cups in the street in front of a shop or someone else's house and then throwing the cups right there after they are done drinking.


I totally agree with what Vina said above and hence Indians must support swaach bharat tax.

In fact., I think it should be raised from the current measly 0.5% to 5% and 50 lashes. And it is the Indians themselves who love to howl in protest and state that living in filth is their birth right or freedom of expression.

I do think that India's GDP will grow more if it was actually cleaner. Tourism potential is totally undermined because of its uncleanliness.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Karthik S » 15 Jun 2017 09:18

I've earned money for sicilian family, few regional chief ministers, their kids' parties, bikes and flings, have subsidized haj tickets for others, have paid for minority weddings, have educated minority students etc etc, all the while I've been driving on shitty roads and living in power cuts. We have people here who want me to pay more to fix others mess become they lack civic sense.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 15 Jun 2017 09:31

With due respect Jaggi is wrong in this case. He hasn't been able to prove that demo has a direct link with farmers agitation. If it was the case farmers will be in trouble all over India not in a few pockets. Besides this is clearly a political issue more than an economic one.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chetak » 15 Jun 2017 09:39

Supratik wrote:With due respect Jaggi is wrong in this case. He hasn't been able to prove that demo has a direct link with farmers agitation. If it was the case farmers will be in trouble all over India not in a few pockets. Besides this is clearly a political issue more than an economic one.


it's easy for the congis, commies and urban naxals to get the farmers to agitate. After all, their loans are going to be waived and Modi is being blamed for the mess.

The congis seem to be behind the MP farmers fiasco. The BJP is a mere novice when compared to the seasoned behind the scene campaigners like the congis and the commies.

Like lambs being led to the slaughter, only easier.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby yensoy » 15 Jun 2017 10:33

Theo_Fidel wrote:...Yes it is easy for you, because you don't see the blood sweat and tears of the past 15 years that went into making it look so easy. No one in their right mind thinks it’s the laws that made it happen. The reason it is easy is that there is an entire army of skilled professionals from code inspectors to Architects to Engineers to Planners to Electricians who pay attention to the same details across the nation making sure every single place operates the same way. The law is an a$$, let me tell you it less than useless. But it is the army of professionals who makes sure everything works correct per permitted plans. All changes are documented and permitted by the city. You know what happens if we fail even once, we lose our license...


Bingo!

This is one reason the US will always be at the head of the table. The amount of thought, theorizing, study and revision that goes into the most mundane of things is beyond belief. And it's not mindless paperwork. It's based on real concerns, real science, and real economics where everything is questioned and analyzed. The Chinese can go ahead and build all the hardware they want, but there is no bloody way they will get anywhere close to the US in terms of its processes and procedures - which is why they can build a plane but getting it to pass muster with insurers and building the supply chain for it will be much harder than they anticipate. I can buy a nice small flat in Hyderabad for what I spend designing and building a septic system in the US, and no it's not just because labour is more expensive.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Karthik S » 15 Jun 2017 10:35

Not just US, all G-7 countries.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Schmidt » 15 Jun 2017 10:54

New trend I've noticed in Chennai is people going for corrugated sheet structures on their roofs / terraces and building extra rooms / gyms / function halls etc

These are in clear violation of the building plans / approvals

The logic being this is much cheaper to construct , and they just hope that the building inspectors will go easy on them , or can be bribed etc

Worst case scenario - they just unscrew it and take it down , hopefully to put back again later !!!

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Kashi » 15 Jun 2017 11:08

Schmidt wrote:The logic being this is much cheaper to construct , and they just hope that the building inspectors will go easy on them , or can be bribed etc


How does that work? If you have to pay bribes, any savings in cost will be eroded rapidly, especially since bribes will not be a one time thing. Every time there's an inspection, there will be bribes.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Karan M » 15 Jun 2017 13:37

the indian public is very much to blame for the sh!t pile indian cities are. does it take the govt to tell them not to pee on everyones public roads even where there is an urinal next door, which will end up going bankrupt coz nobody uses it? the average indian apart from the middle class jokers, has grown up in a milieue where sab chalta hain, and GOI is to be looted. go around seeing how many "small loan takers" are actually paying back banks wagehra because they can, as versus looting it. AADHAR is much needed to bring this entire indian public mindset out of acrooked, everything is ok as long as i get my cut. caste, personal benefit, and crookedness define much of our society's collective behavior. and its the middle class which gets the short end of the stick. GOI rule making will do little unless more strictness is observed at every level at how to deal with all sorts of touts, whether consumer or service provider and people start taking it seriously. in the building space, yes, the crooked builders need to be taken to task. but even elsewhere te indian public also needs to own the fact they have contributed to making cities unlivable in, ad the rural areas also need to be made productive as versus being attuned to GOI sops.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby putnanja » 15 Jun 2017 14:25

India has all the laws and zero implementation. Nothing is implemented as per the laws or rules/regulations. The roads are not built to standard, the buildings not constructed as per the regulations, less said about fire safety measures, earthquake measures etc, the better. How many cities regulate restaurant kitchens? Zero other than regular haftas. How many monitor the public roads that are built which disintegrate during first week of monsoons? How many companies/buildings even conduct fire safety drills, other than few software companies? How many even test whether the sprinklers, alarms etc are all working? We have all the laws, but if you don't enforce it, there is no value. And with the slow moving judiciary, people would rather avoid it if possible.

And policing is pretty bad. After being in Hyderabad for couple of years, I find that Bangalore police are way better enforcing traffic rules than their Hyderabad counterparts. Here in Hyderabad, people block free left in front of the police station, and no policeman even clears it up. People keep driving even when the light turns red, right in front of policemen, who just ignore it. Buses stop in the middle of the road, not at the side, bang in center, and no policeman bats an eyelid. And horrible planning, bus stops at the corners blocking traffic when light turns green, auto and share taxis stopping at blind corner, bus stops just where the flyover ends and meets the road below, blocking traffic from both. Share Autos and Taxis overloaded, with two passengers sitting next to driver and two in the back on the sides with their butt sticking out, and no issues with any police. And weird thing is policemen when they are out hardly do anything. I myself am guilty of driving two-wheeler without helmet for 10km each way for a month (my helmet was in bangalore and I wanted to get it, instead of buying new one), and passing couple of police stations, and not once did any policeman even stop me.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby putnanja » 15 Jun 2017 14:32

Karan M wrote:the indian public is very much to blame for the sh!t pile indian cities are. does it take the govt to tell them not to pee on everyones public roads even where there is an urinal next door, which will end up going bankrupt coz nobody uses it? the average indian apart from the middle class jokers, has grown up in a milieue where sab chalta hain, and GOI is to be looted. ...


Unfortunately, the toilets aren't maintained well either. I have been to toilets in Bus Stands in many states. They take Rs 2-5 per person, but it still stinks. The floor is wet, and you don't know if its water or something else. And in unmanned ones, better to not even step into it. And public toilets are few and far between, that too if they are maintained well. After RoI, I found that road trips are a hassle with family mainly because there are no decent toilets along the way, especially for kids and women.

Middle class or upper class doesn't matter, very few take care not to mess up their surroundings. I have seen people throw their trash out of the car while driving, without even bothering to see if anyone is coming up behind and whether it will hit them or not.

The mindset needs to change, and till that happens, we will continue to live among filth.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Karan M » 15 Jun 2017 15:07

putnanja, those toilets are not maintained becoz most indians will piss right next to it, but wont pay for the use.

raise the prices and someone will start a campaign to subsidize paying on rural, urban, caste wagehra. and the rest will piss outside. then the municipality, will hand over the contract to some contractor and maintenance goes for a further toss.

middle class matters because they are the only buffoons who are even bothered by such issues. some in the group will even attempt to change. the tax paying types that is, because they expect something for their taxes. the upper class hide behind walls of affluence and are rarely bothered by the stench of real india.

the rest all regard GOI as an agency to loot to the end of time.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gagan » 15 Jun 2017 15:28

Can't civic sence, civility, manners, etc be taught as a subject in schools?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Sicanta » 15 Jun 2017 17:45

Gagan wrote:Can't civic sence, civility, manners, etc be taught as a subject in schools?


They are taught as a subject. At my big school, it was 'Social Work and ....' something. But a graded activity=waste of time, so the lessons were never conducted :) Got straight A's though so can be called my best subject at school :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Singha » 15 Jun 2017 18:37

we had moral science from class1 to class10 being a missionary HS.

I would say it helped me

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby rahulm » 15 Jun 2017 18:47

Gagan wrote:Can't civic sence, civility, manners, etc be taught as a subject in schools?


Nature and nurture are both necessary. Even if we nurture properly, when the vast majority are up against you most will,just give up after a while and the few who are determined will fight heroic but local battles but will,not win the war.

When a system at best ignores and worst rewards the wrong doers people who want to do the right thing either switch sides seeing the futility of their efforts or battle in vain.

Oops, this is the aeconimy thread. I will stop here lest the Breaper unleash a Harpoonski.
Last edited by rahulm on 15 Jun 2017 18:51, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby saip » 15 Jun 2017 18:49

The real problem could be the municipalities which do not care about the cleanliness of the streets. Why is it necessary that we should have OPEN sewers in cities and towns? Why not have underground drainage? When the streets are clean less number of people will have the urge to take a leak that much. Yea, there will always be those who will but that can be addressed by heavily fining them with proof (with digital cameras that will not be difficult) The best of course would be that they should either pay the fine or do community service for a week like cleaning the streets. Again, how come I do not see women doing it that much (may be 1 to 100)?

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby saip » 15 Jun 2017 19:03

Our town planning too contributes to it. Here is a personal eg. Decades ago my father was elected as the President of the bar council in our town. The first thing he did was to build a toilet annex at his expense. The attorneys there DID have a building for r & r but it did not have toilets. These people are not uneducated or poor. Simply no one planned that the building should have toilets nor municipality cared before granting the permit. So everyone went out on to the street to do their job until the annex was built.

Recently I was there in the town and the current President and his committee members asked me if I am willing to rebuild that as the annex is being demolished as they are getting a new building worth couple of crores. Again they did NOT plan to have toilets in the building but in an annex. Why? I do not know. Probably because they did not like the 'unclean' cleaners entering the new building. How did the get the permit from the corporation without providing for toilets? Such a thing will not happen in any developed country. So me and my siblings gave them money. One of the conditions was that it should have provision for women too (my sisters insisted).

Recently one of my siblings went there. (S)he was shocked to see that they created a separate area for 'Muslims'. I would have refused to give the money if I had known that. If they are so particular about it they should have paid for it themselves. This is 21st century for heavens sake and they want to be in seventh century, no not on my dime.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Gagan » 15 Jun 2017 19:51

Lack of funding seems to be the cause.
I know of several towns where they built an underground sewerage system back in the 80-90s and connected houses to it
Previously most houses either had their own system or dumped it into an open drain

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 23:18

Kashi wrote:How does that work? If you have to pay bribes, any savings in cost will be eroded rapidly, especially since bribes will not be a one time thing. Every time there's an inspection, there will be bribes.


I can tell you there are no inpection's anymore. Even in posh areas. The Chennai city is growing so fast and there are only about 80 inspectors for the entire city per last year when I was dealing with construction. Many posts are lying vacant as the private sector is very lucrative right now.

It is almost impossible to get an order to demolish. In my area the FSI controls say only 2 story + roof storage shed/water tank allowed. Fellow 2 theruvu's down has built 6 stories! No elevator. One staircase. You can imagine what will happen in a fire.He has parked 2 families/young IT types at each level for something like Rs 5000 pm rent. Vehicles parked all over the street. On top of all that he has converted first floor to Kalyana Mandapam, you can imagine the parking chaos. He is the brother of local MLA it turns out.

The thing is he got thrown out of power 5 years ago. Still no one dares touch him. and so it goes....

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 15 Jun 2017 23:33

Gagan wrote:Lack of funding seems to be the cause.


Culture matters too. I can see it on different sides of my family. Some don’t want change and want to live like their Perriapa’s lived. Many times I’m laughed at for being a snob because I won’t just #1 when the driver stops on highway under tamarind tree. At least in TN now nice Gas Stations shell/reliance in increasing numbers so it makes stuff easier. But even here many worker type folks are intimidated from going in. There is security at door to keep the riff-raff out, so the riff-raff get even by #1 right outside building, right corner. Everyone knows how to get there by stench….
-----------------

saip,

That is a sad sad story saar, but too common, too common...

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby shaun » 16 Jun 2017 07:46

Singha wrote:we had moral science from class1 to class10 being a missionary HS.

I would say it helped me
+1 moral science and Civic science. And putting fines won't work , it's like , "okay if we get caught , we will pay fine' but people rarely get caught . Best way is flogging . Fear factor works :D and it have got a cascading effect.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 09 Nov 2017 22:00

Kathputli slum, one of the oldest in Delhi is being demolished for redevelopment after stalling for 10 years by ngos, activists and politicians.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 22:03

Need to do the same with slums in Mumbai, plently of land available to start SMEs. Develop houses to relocate the people and build useful factories.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 09 Nov 2017 22:28

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathputli_Colony

Says that people are being shifted about 2kms away while they will be settled back on 10 stories buildings in 2 years time.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 09 Nov 2017 22:31

Mumbai has developed a relatively efficient slum redevelopment system after years of stalling by ngos, activists and vote bank politicians. In that eligible slum residents get small flats in rehab buildings and rest is developed for sale. Although they have not made progress with Dharavi they have been able to redevelop smaller slums. Delhi was lagging behind but hopefully there is some progress.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 09 Nov 2017 22:35

Was looking at Shanghai, it has very tall slum buildings so to speak. Mostly people rehabilitated in this fashion. But there it's far easier to make such decisions.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Vasu » 26 Apr 2018 12:27

This is significant as it will guide Mumbai's development from here onwards. Of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and when it comes to Mumbai, the pudding itself changes to a Halwa by the end of it, that too undercooked.

Mumbai Development Plan 2034 puts focus on affordable homes and job creation

First the good news — the Mumbai Development Plan (DP) for 2034 speaks about creating 1 million affordable houses and 8 million jobs in the city. The DP envisages creating theatres, museums, parks, playgrounds, theme gardens, old age homes and shelters for the homeless.

Now the bad news — all this may remain on paper as BMC’s development plans have had a very dismal record of completion. Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation Commissioner Ajoy Mehta himself admitted on Wednesday that only 20% of what the 1991 Development Plan had envisaged could be achieved. In plain terms, all the talk of creating 1 million affordable homes and 8 million jobs is likely to remain on paper because execution has been poor.

The Development Plan for 2034 talks of utilising salt pan lands for affordable housing. According to the plan, out of the 3,355 hectares in no-development zone, BMC has earmarked 2,100 hectares as well as 330 hectares of salt pan land for affordable housing. The plan could prove controversial as activists and environmental activists claim the city could become prone to flooding because the salt pan lands act as natural sieves that hold water during monsoon.

To create more jobs, the DP has given incentives for commercial structures to have extra floorspace index (FSI). Residential buildings will also be given extra FSI subject to road width. Data centres have been allowed a height of 6 metres to encourage setting up of more such centres.

The DP has also designated 12,859 hectares as natural spaces, a new category where no new construction will be allowed, according to Mehta. However, there are caveats, as pointed out in the civic body’s press release that new construction could take place in the area if the Ministry of Environment and Forests (MoEF) permits it or if it is needed for essential services.

In what could again cause controversy, Aarey Colony in Goregaon has been earmarked for a Metro carshed as well as for rehabilitating adivasis from the Sanjay Gandhi National park. A zoo may also come up in the area.

The civic body also plans to create a separate parking authority. It plans to create two mega parking space of 300 acres each, one would be in Cuffe Parade and the other near the Bombay Port Trust.


Additional details and views:

Affordable housing to receive a fillip under Mumbai Development Plan 2034

Of the 16,700 hectare No Development Zone (NDZ) in the city, 12,900 hectares of land has now been classified as Natural Area (NA), which includes parts of Sanjay Gandhi National Park, mangroves, salt pans and parts of Film City and Aarey Milk Colony, along with a few regions under Coastal Regulation Zones (CRZ).

FSI levels in the island city have also been increased up to 3, in the suburbs FSI has been retained at 2.5. This is likely to boost construction activity. Earlier, the FSI in the island city was lower that the effective FSI allocated to suburbs which has now been amended. The FSI in island city has now been raised above the FSI in the suburbs which will lead to a higher potential supply in the island city.

Some urban planners are of the view that just as the city messed up after 600 acres of mill land was released in 2005, history may repeat itself now if infrastructure does not keep pace with new real estate supply.

“The creation of open space of 120 hectares at Eastern Waterfront through PPP is in line with improving the per capita open space ratio of Mumbai. This opens Mumbai’s trademark waterfront for development of recreation, retail and entertainment projects and will give rise to re-development of real estate along the corridor, much like what Canary Wharf re-development did for London’s office district,” he adds.[also one of Gadkari's pet initiatives for Mumbai]


I am writing this sitting in one of those same mill lands released in 2005, and I can vouch that the only people who benefitted then were the big name builders and their politician friends who grabbed almost everything then. When I leave office, I jostle for an average 30-45 minutes everyday to cross a 110 year old, two lane, Elphinstone Road Bridge to get to Eastern Express Highway, from where it takes me another 45 minutes to get to my home in the Eastern suburbs.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 27 Apr 2018 11:24

^ As another mumbaikar (who has steadily shifted northwards - but managed to be on the western side so far), i can understand your pain and angst :)

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 27 Apr 2018 23:23

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/haryan ... 80126.html

Faridabad, April 26
The process of reviving the dried-up Badkhal Lake here has begun. The state government has handed over the work of refilling the lake to the Faridabad Smart City Limited (FSSL), the company looking after the Smart City project here. The Rs 67-crore project is likely to be completed within two years.

Sources said the earlier proposal of refilling the lake with irrigation water was dropped after a study found it unfeasible. Later, the authorities decided to fill the lake with the help of a sewage-treatment plant (STP) and it would be done by the FSSL and not the Irrigation Department.

“We will set up an STP in Sector 21 and its water will be used in filling the lake,” said Anand Mohan Sharan, Chairman, FSSL. The daily discharge of the STP is expected between 10 and 15 MLD. He said the work on DPR has started and the tender allotment process would be over in next two months.

He said the revival project would not only include water refilling, but also the development of the lake front. The water body would regain its original shape within a period of 18 to 24 months.

Spread over 40 acres, the lake had gone dry almost two decades back mainly due to illegal mining and operation of private water bottling plants in its vicinity. Though several meetings took place regarding revival of the lake that was first taken up in 2015, the main problem had been a permanent source of water as it required a continuous inflow of thousands of gallon round the year, said an official. A committee found that the STP option was the most viable, he added.

Seeking a blanket ban on illegal mining in the sensitive zone of Badkhal and Surajkund, Varun Sheokand, an RTI activist, said the lake revival project may fail if tough measures were not taken to protect the ecology of the region.

Vasu
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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Vasu » 08 May 2018 16:23

E-office system implement in all government departments in UP

The e-office system, aimed at enhancing movement of files, was implemented in all the state government departments on Monday, an official said.

The new system, which was announced by Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath on October 27 last year, was implemented in 20 departments at the state secretariat in the first phase.

In the second phase now, more than 70 other departmental offices have also been linked to the system, which will ensure that the files are not inordinately delayed and that the digitization expedites the process of decision making, an official told IANS.

Under the e-office arrangements, all the new files will be routed through the new system while the old files and records will be first digitized and then routed on the e-office system. The official also said that the state government planned to implement the e-office system in all district and divisional headquarters by August this year.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby tandav » 17 May 2018 07:42

Gagan wrote:Lack of funding seems to be the cause.
I know of several towns where they built an underground sewerage system back in the 80-90s and connected houses to it
Previously most houses either had their own system or dumped it into an open drain


Sewerage and Sanitation is one of the most corrupt area in Govt Infra buildup. A town I visited recently had implemented a 20 mld (1mld is ~10000 folks) sewage collection network + sewage treatment plant. The Rs 90 Crore 2012 project was supposed to collect waste water from 16000 dwellings which equates to 8mld at 100% efficiency. The escalation from 8mld to 20mld is clear case of corruption justified by citing 2040 population growth projects that have no basis. Today in 2018 only 3mld reaches the stp plant where capacity utilization is 15% and output water is not meeting discharge standards. Very recently the city floated out a tender for new 20mld treatment plant ~Rs 25 Cr. Note the costs above are only CAPEX. Our country side is littered with such non performing white elephants. If the same 90 Cr had been spent in decentralized treatment systems in city parks Cost would be ~Rs 2 Cr / MLD and would ensure higher capacity utilization. Since the treated water is available within the city we would be able to get beautiful green gardens for all to enjoy and use the rest of the treated water for dust abatement etc.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Supratik » 17 May 2018 19:59


Suraj
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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2018 21:35

Tandav, thanks for that anecdote. Yes lack of accountability at the state and urban level administration is the gaping hole in our system. Money disappears into it and nothing commensurate is done.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby nandakumar » 17 May 2018 21:55

How about if sewerage treatment plants are set up in public private partnership mode like in road projects? Just as concessaionaires in toll road projects gets revenue from vehicle users STP operators should get revenue based on treated water output. In order to strengthen the contractual relationships users of treated water must be industrial consumers. Imagine if seweage of water of residential areas around Electronics city, Bangalore is islanded, treated and fed to commercial users in the Electronics City we might have a better accountability isn't it? Just a random reflection.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Suraj » 17 May 2018 23:05

Lots of random reflections and deflections are possible. The lack of ideas is not the issue here. Given a set of citizens coming up with an idea like this, how do you get it into action ?

The point I'm trying to make is that there's a gaping public policy hole at the state/local level, where citizens cannot force some ballot driven measure to change or drive a certain course of action. It's all incumbent on electing someone and hoping it'll listen to you and do something. There's no way to compel it.

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Re: Indian Urban Development and Public Policy Discussion

Postby Vasu » 22 May 2018 10:54

Some updates on Namami Gange.

http://www.uniindia.com/~/30-stp-would-be-completed-this-year-in-up-sources/States/news/1222130.html

30 projects of Sewage Treatment Plants with capacity to treat 607 million liter per day will be completed by the end of December of Uttar Pradesh.

Along with the STP, 1,725 km long sewer lines will also be completed by the end of this year.

Under AMRUT scheme, four STPs with installed capacity of 84 MLD were commissioned in March this year and 4 STPs in Allahabad with capacity of 119 MLD have also been commissioned and linked to sewer lines this year.


On cards: Coir logs to clean drains flowing into Ganga

Logs wound with coir, mud balls, dyes, and certain plant species may soon be used as tools to clean sections of heavily polluted drains that flow into the river Ganga. The National Mission for Clean Ganga (NMCG) has approved eight projects that will use bioremediation techniques to clean specific drains in Patna, Hardwar, Allahabad, Bulandshahr and Varanasi.

The total flow across all these drains adds up to 377 million litres per day (MLD). The total cost for the projects is Rs 23.77 crore. “The project proponents have been given a month to show if their methods are working before funds are released,” NMCG director general Rajiv Ranjan Mishra told The Indian Express.


Economic Crimes makes it an industry versus a healthy Ganga fight. For Ganga to flow clean, industry told to shut shop

The UP chief minister has ordered that all 264 operational tanneries in Kanpur’s Jajmau suburb on the river’s bank be closed for three months at a stretch, starting December 15 this year, so as to ensure that “clean and pure” Ganga water flows down to Allahabad for the Kumbh starting January 14.

Further, as per an ongoing plan to shift these tanneries away from the Ganga, the chief minister ordered than the sole sewage treatment plant in Jajmau that caters to these tanneries be shifted to Ramaipur about 20 kilometres away, implying that the industries will too have to relocate there.

“For decades, these tanneries have been contaminating the Ganga and turning the water black. The National Green Tribunal has also been against these tanneries on Ganga banks. It is a big decision by the CM,” a top UP government official told ET.

At the centre of the debate is the sewage treatment plant (STP) in Jajmau that needs urgent upgrade for cleaning effluent waste generated by the tanneries. The chief minister was told earlier this week that while the industries were generating 6.7 MLD effluents, the existing STP had a capacity to treat only 36 MLD and it costs Rs. 17 crore a year to run the plant – the tanneries will now have to foot half of this cost.


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