Indian Manufacturing Sector

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Vips
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

sanjaykumar wrote:That’s not quite true. The US had a couple of dozen car companies. Some became defunct. Some amalgamated into General Motors.
The size of the US car market then compared to India was at least 15 to 20 times bigger and how many manufacturers remain today? I bet less then what India has today.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train: Railways launch giant equipment to build high-speed rail corridor.

Image

Indian Railways for the construction of viaduct superstructures of 508 km long, Mumbai-Ahmedabad High-Speed Rail Project (MAHSR) has successfully launched the indigenously designed and manufactured-‘Full Span Launching Equipment-Straddle Carrier and Girder Transporter’ to expedite the construction of viaduct for Mumbai- Ahmedabad High Speed Rail corridor.

This technology will expedite the process of launching girders as the precast girders of full span length will be erected as a single piece for double track viaduct. Full Span Launching Methodology(FSLM) is used world over as it is faster than the segment by segment launching method, usually adopted for the construction of viaducts for themetro system. India is now coming in the select group of countries like Italy, Norway, Korea, and China which have been designing and manufacturing such equipment.

The standard precast Pre Stressed Concrete (PSC) Box Girders (weight ranging from 700 to 975 metric ton) of span 30, 35 and 45 meters will be launched by using FSLM methodology for the high speed corridor. The heaviest PSC Box Girder weighing 975 MT and of 40 meter length will be used for the first time in the construction industry in India for MAHSR project.

The FSLM equipment of 1100MT capacity is indigenously designed and manufactured by M/s Larsen &Toubro at their manufacturing facility in Kanchipuram, Chennai, for which M/s L&T has partnered with 55 Micro-Small Medium Enterprises (MSME).

A total of 20 number of such launching equipment will be required for the construction of viaduct 325 km of viaduct superstructures between Vapi and Ahmedabad in the state of Gujarat.

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India is now coming in the select group of countries like Italy, Norway, Korea, and China which have been designing and manufacturing such equipment.

This equipment is designed to handle the Full Span Precast girders from casting bed to stacking yard and further feeding them to Bridge Gantry for further erection. This is a tyre mounted self-propelled gantry crane having lifting capacity of 1100MT.

The Mumbai Ahmedabad High Speed Rail project expected to create more than 90,000 jobs in this area including 51,000 jobs for technicians, skilled and unskilled workers.This project will boost the overall economy of the area by deploying 1000s of trucks, dumpers, excavators, batching plants, tunneling equipment and so on. It is estimated that 7.5 million ton of cement, 2.1 million ton of steel and 70000 tonnes of structural steel will be used in the construction. National High Speed Rail Corporation Limited is also preparing detailed project reports for seven high speed rail corridors. With the experience of execution of Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Rail project, the works of other corridors will be faster.
sanjaykumar
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by sanjaykumar »

^^ history is by definition old.

In 1929 5 million cars were sold in the US.

I find facts to be useful.
Vips
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

The number of manufacturers remaining today (relative to the size of the market) is also a hard fact.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Ambar »

At the end of the day auto manufacturing is a very volume driven, low margin business (unless you are making super luxury cars). I remember former FCA chairman Sergio Marchionne saying mainstream auto makers need atleast 4 million units/yr globally to survive and be profitable. So unless there is volume, it makes little sense for a manufacturer to stay in a market. This is also the reason why Toyota is no longer bringing in new vehicles to India but instead leveraging Suzuki's cars to rebadge and resell. In near term i wouldnt be too surprised if Honda, VW, Skoda, Nissan, Datsun and Jeep also leave India.

Ford or some other automaker leaving makes little difference to the average Indian consumer or our manufacturing sector as a whole. Whatever little sales the struggling manufacturers have will be subsumed by other remaining manufacturers. During 2008-10 great recession, GM killed Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, Ford killed Mercury, Chrysler killed Plymouth, Suzuki, Isuzu left the US market but it has had little to no impact on the industry.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Pratyush »

If the product is not refreshed or is not relevant to the Indian market then the company will not be successful.

In the Indian market, MG & KIA were not known commodities before 2018-19. Yet they have been successful with specific product. If the product is fresh the manufacturer will succeed.

Remember Skoda in early 2000 with Octavia. Today it no longer enjoys that position.

But Kushaq should make it competitive in the market again.

So the company has to keep reinventing itself with new products and offerings.

Ford was not able to do so. In fact they didn't have a compelling mass market product from the last 5 years at least.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vamsee »

Zoho to foray into R&D in manufacturing sector

=============

This is good. Sridhar Vembu in many of his speeches mentioned how he is inspired by East Asia & Germany rathar than Anglo saxons & manufacturing (R&D) is the true wealth rather than finantialization of economy.

--Vamsee
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Atmavik »

Some of you might already know this but this video intrigued me . Not for the technical details but what the role of government is in increasing the economy , I see some of my friends debate abt socialism or capitalism or some other ism in Indian context. While we keep on debating the rest of the world will not stop
‘ how Tiwan created TSMC’

https://youtu.be/9fVrWDdll0g
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Aditya_V »

Vamsee wrote:Zoho to foray into R&D in manufacturing sector

=============

This is good. Sridhar Vembu in many of his speeches mentioned how he is inspired by East Asia & Germany rathar than Anglo saxons & manufacturing (R&D) is the true wealth rather than finantialization of economy.

--Vamsee
But his native South TN is in the grip of activists with TN media who want shut down Ports, Copper plants, Nuke power generators, everything and live off NGO money
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

Govt plans mega package to woo investors in semiconductor manufacturing.

India is planning to roll out a multi-billion-dollar capital support and production linked incentive plan to push manufacturing of semiconductors in the country, top sources have told TOI.

Sources said senior officers were in talks with some of the top semiconductor manufacturers such as Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), Intel, AMD, Fujitsu, United Microelectronics Corp.

"The government is willing to talk capital support. We are closer to it like never before,” said a top source engaged in the process. The move comes at a time when a global chip shortage has massively affected production in industries across several sectors.

The plan is being coordinated and monitored closely by the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) and multiple ministries have been roped into the process, the TOI report said.

Sources said efforts would be made to formulate an "attractive and investment-conducive scheme" for companies. Financial support on capital expenditure, tariff reductions on certain components, and benefits through programmes such as Scheme for Promotion of Manufacturing of Electronic Components and Semiconductors (SPECS) and production-linked incentive (PLI) could be on the cards.

Previous attempts failed to get companies to invest in manufacturing semiconductors because sophisticated processes require heavy investments, besides an uninterrupted supply of clean water and electricity.

“The domestic demand is going to be very high. The government expects domestic production of electronics to move up to $350-400 billion by 2025, against the estimated $75 billion now. This will be a big enabler to get in investments,” the source said.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by kit »

India is a humongous market for all sorts of capital equipment and electronics , quite unsurprising that all the world's major manufacturers do not have plants inside India. NOW is the time. The economy is going up and whoever invests now would have the early mover advantage. Competition is going to be fierce in a decade.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Atmavik »

https://youtu.be/Ij32IVNT6og

Eicher/volvo bus manufacturing in India. At 4:50 we can see the assembly line with Kuka robots.

@csurabh hoping ur company will be the kuka of India
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

Atmavik wrote:https://youtu.be/Ij32IVNT6og

Eicher/volvo bus manufacturing in India. At 4:50 we can see the assembly line with Kuka robots.

@csurabh hoping ur company will be the kuka of India
Long time no see.. Thanks for the complement, but becoming a kuka of India is a very long shot. There is very little support for such ideas.
Local investors are only interested in ecommerce/delivery/app type of startups and pvt companies are just interested in baniyagiri not RnD. So we'd have to get attention from global investors, for whom indigenization is not really a thing. Our best bet is to say it is a lower cost product with better features compared to the global product, but getting there takes time. We are getting there regardless. Ironically the much maligned govt organizations are our central pillar of support, they are the only ones who really buy into this indigenous/atma-nirbharta in high tech stuff..
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by suryag »

Csaurabhji - there are a few investors that i know who are interested in cutting edge stuff for instance endiya partners
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

csaurabh wrote: Long time no see.. Thanks for the complement, but becoming a kuka of India is a very long shot. There is very little support for such ideas.
Local investors are only interested in ecommerce/delivery/app type of startups and pvt companies are just interested in baniyagiri not RnD. So we'd have to get attention from global investors, for whom indigenization is not really a thing. Our best bet is to say it is a lower cost product with better features compared to the global product, but getting there takes time. We are getting there regardless. Ironically the much maligned govt organizations are our central pillar of support, they are the only ones who really buy into this indigenous/atma-nirbharta in high tech stuff..
@csaurabh, are you designing and making robots in India? Please send me your company name. I have been thinking of doing some automation in our factory and the likes of Kuka are just too expensive.
Thanks
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

Hi vcsekhar, we are indeed developing cnc machines, robotics and automation systems. However we are still in the R&D process and I estimate at least 1 year until we can prove ourselves with market ready products. Most 'robotics' and 'automation' companies in India just do assembly and installation using a platform like Delta, Siemens, Fanuc, Yaskawa. We are developing our IP from the scratch that is why it is taking time. We have currently done some instrumentation products for ISRO and IITs and are taking up further projects from DRDO. Usually pvt sector will not trust an unknown company at this stage. Regardless I would like to know about your requirements send me email at: saurabhsaurc [at] gmail [dot] com.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

csaurabh wrote:Hi vcsekhar, we are indeed developing cnc machines, robotics and automation systems. However we are still in the R&D process and I estimate at least 1 year until we can prove ourselves with market ready products. Most 'robotics' and 'automation' companies in India just do assembly and installation using a platform like Delta, Siemens, Fanuc, Yaskawa. We are developing our IP from the scratch that is why it is taking time. We have currently done some instrumentation products for ISRO and IITs and are taking up further projects from DRDO. Usually pvt sector will not trust an unknown company at this stage. Regardless I would like to know about your requirements send me email at: saurabhsaurc [at] gmail [dot] com.
Done, I sent you an email.
Thanks
csaurabh
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

https://swarajyamag.com/business/why-ar ... ufacturing

What nonsensical reasons they have given for not going into Lithium batteries.

The real reason is simply that they cannot make Lithium batteries because they have no R&D in chemistry, battery materials and manufacturing technologies. They just stick to a 100 yr old process and don't want to learn anything new.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Manish_P »

^ +1

There are simply following the over-cautious baniya-style approach of license manufacturing rather than doing R&D and developing own tech.

It might well be likely that EVs will still take a decade to get prevalent here (even in urban areas) but surely these companies can take that time to do their research work started.. hopefully there might come some start-ups who start working on this tech. Time will tell whether these two companies adapt and survive or go extinct.

In the mean-time Chinese EV makers are getting very aggressive in the UK/Europe markets
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by venkat_kv »

csaurabh wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/business/why-ar ... ufacturing

What nonsensical reasons they have given for not going into Lithium batteries.

The real reason is simply that they cannot make Lithium batteries because they have no R&D in chemistry, battery materials and manufacturing technologies. They just stick to a 100 yr old process and don't want to learn anything new.
the article seems to indicate exide doesn't think that IC 's are going away anytime soon. they will probably go extinct with that sort of thinking and hoping for license manufacture if there is a need for Lithium batteries.

Amara Raja is said to have tied up with ISRO, though i doubt what exactly they are bringing in R&D.
It would be interesting to see where Tata Motors and Maruti go about their future acquisitions regarding EV batteries. this decade will probably decide how we can remain independent without depending on oil, lithium mined from sources around the world where China seems to have a head start.

I wish we go for different one than lithium- probably iron based or hydrogen based just to chart our own path.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by chetak »

Engineering major lost large domestic orders as technical-deficient rivals won tenders



L&T losing to ill-equipped cos in India; isn't it a pity: A M Naik

L&T losing to ill-equipped cos in India; isn't it a pity: A M Naik

Engineering major lost large domestic orders as technical-deficient rivals won tenders

December 6, 2021

Larsen & Toubro (L&T), India’s largest construction and engineering player, has lost as many as 14 large orders in the country because companies that don't possess adequate technical expertise and experience, of late, have won the projects by bidding lower, claimed A M Naik, non-executive chairman of L&T.

But the company has made up for the losses by winning projects overseas, where it has acquired a sizeable market share amid tough competition from large global players, he said. “Today, L&T does 60 per cent of its work outside India but here we have lost 14 of 14 ...
Vips
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

L&T must be losing its valued engineers due to poaching by these companies to make up for the technical experience after winning the large orders/contracts.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Yagnasri »

If there are construction related orders, we all know how those orders are given.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vimal »

Its scary to what kind of bridges and highways these lowest bidder companies will build. One collapse and blow to Modi/Ambani/Adani will be in full flow.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Najunamar »

I see CMRL project having L&T in the billboards, perhaps there are many of these projects under way and they're spread too thin? Isn't it a good thing to have viable alternatives?
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by isubodh »

vimal wrote:Its scary to what kind of bridges and highways these lowest bidder companies will build. One collapse and blow to Modi/Ambani/Adani will be in full flow.
In bidding first stage is technical evaluation. Any company that qualifies that should be okie to deliver.

Unless we are taking about corruption in bidding, it should work out. L&T is good company but it cannot be only company.

If Naik has convictions then he should challenge bidding process in court
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Cyrano »

A recent bill/GO has made it not mandatory to always go with L1. Was discussed here...
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Thakur_B »

Cyrano wrote:A recent bill/GO has made it not mandatory to always go with L1. Was discussed here...
QCBS is not meant for regular projects/construction work where the customer knows exactly what it wants and gives the specifications. It is more useful in defence acquisition where what is available or can be developed drives the procurement.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

venkat_kv wrote: the article seems to indicate exide doesn't think that IC 's are going away anytime soon. they will probably go extinct with that sort of thinking and hoping for license manufacture if there is a need for Lithium batteries.
The article makes it sound that Lithium batteries are used only in EVs, but in fact Lithium batteries are used everywhere - from consumer electronics to drones to mobile robots and -guess what- IC engine vehicles need batteries too!
Li batteries are a little more complicated to use than lead acid but given the higher energy density it is worth it. Nowadays battery management solutions are becoming easily available as well.

There are battery startups in India, but most of them are just assembling Chinese made cells into packs. I don't know if any real research is going on.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by A Nandy »

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage ... ID=1781723
In furtherance of the vision of Aatmanirbhar Bharat and positioning India as the global hub for Electronic System Design and Manufacturing, the Union Cabinet chaired by Hon’ble Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi has approved the comprehensive program for the development of sustainable semiconductor and display ecosystem in the country. The program will usher in a new era in electronics manufacturing by providing a globally competitive incentive package to companies in semiconductors and display manufacturing as well as design. This shall pave the way for India’s technological leadership in these areas of strategic importance and economic self-reliance.

Semiconductors and displays are the foundation of modern electronics driving the next phase of digital transformation under Industry 4.0. Semiconductors and display manufacturing is very complex and technology-intensive sector involving huge capital investments, high risk, long gestation and payback periods, and rapid changes in technology, which require significant and sustained investments. The program will give an impetus to semiconductor and display manufacturing by facilitating capital support and technological collaborations.

The programme aims to provide attractive incentive support to companies / consortia that are engaged in Silicon Semiconductor Fabs, Display Fabs, Compound Semiconductors / Silicon Photonics / Sensors (including MEMS) Fabs, Semiconductor Packaging (ATMP / OSAT), Semiconductor Design.

Following broad incentives have been approved for the development of semiconductors and display manufacturing ecosystem in India:

Semiconductor Fabs and Display Fabs: The Scheme for Setting up of Semiconductor Fabs and Display Fabs in India shall extend fiscal support of up to 50% of project cost on pari-passu basis to applicants who are found eligible and have the technology as well as capacity to execute such highly capital intensive and resource incentive projects. Government of India will work closely with the State Governments establish High-Tech Clusters with requisite infrastructure in terms of land, semiconductor grade water, high quality power, logistics and research ecosystem to approve applications for setting up atleasttwo greenfield Semiconductor Fabs and two Display Fabs in the country.

Semi-conductor Laboratory (SCL): Union Cabinet has also approved that Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology will take requisite steps for modernization and commercialization of Semi-conductor Laboratory (SCL). MeitY will explore the possibility for the Joint Venture of SCL with a commercial fab partner to modernize the brownfield fab facility.

Compound Semiconductors / Silicon Photonics / Sensors (including MEMS) Fabs and Semiconductor ATMP / OSAT Units: The Scheme for Setting up of Compound Semiconductors / Silicon Photonics / Sensors (including MEMS) Fabs and Semiconductor ATMP / OSAT facilities in India shall extend fiscal support of 30% of capital expenditure to approved units. Atleast 15 such units of Compound Semiconductors and Semiconductor Packaging are expected to be established with Government support under this scheme.

Semiconductor Design Companies: The Design Linked Incentive (DLI) Scheme shall extend product design linked incentive of up to 50% of eligible expenditure and product deployment linked incentive of 6% - 4% on net sales for five years. Support will be provided to 100 domestic companies of semiconductor design for Integrated Circuits (ICs), Chipsets, System on Chips (SoCs), Systems & IP Cores and semiconductor linked design and facilitating the growth of not less than 20 such companies which can achieve turnover of more than Rs.1500 crore in the coming five years.

India Semiconductor Mission: In order to drive the long-term strategies for developing a sustainable semiconductors and display ecosystem, a specialized and independent “India Semiconductor Mission (ISM)” will be set up. The India Semiconductor Mission will be led by global experts in semiconductor and display industry. It will act as the nodal agency for efficient and smooth implementation of the schemes on Semiconductors and Display ecosystem.

Comprehensive Fiscal Support for Semiconductors and Electronics

With the approval of the programme for development of semiconductors and display manufacturing ecosystem in India with an outlay of Rs.76,000 crore (>10 billion USD), Government of India has announced incentives for every part of supply chain including electronic components, sub-assemblies, and finished goods. Incentive support to the tune of Rs.55,392 crore (7.5 billion USD) have been approved under PLI for Larges Scale Electronics Manufacturing, PLI for IT Hardware, SPECS Scheme and Modified Electronics Manufacturing Clusters (EMC 2.0) Scheme. In addition, PLI incentives to the quantum of Rs.98,000 crore (USD 13 billion) are approved for allied sectors comprising of ACC battery, auto components, telecom & networking products, solar PV modules and white goods. In total, Government of India has committed support of Rs. 2,30,000 crore (USD 30 billion) to position India as global hub for electronics manufacturing with semiconductors as the foundational building block.

In the current geopolitical scenario, trusted sources of semiconductors and displays hold strategic importance and are key to the security of critical information infrastructure. The approved program will propel innovation and build domestic capacities to ensure the digital sovereignty of India. It will also create highly skilled employment opportunities to harness the demographic dividend of the country.

Development of semiconductor and display ecosystem will have a multiplier effect across different sectors of the economy with deeper integration to the global value chain. The program will promote higher domestic value addition in electronics manufacturing and will contribute significantly to achieving a USD 1 Trillion digital economy and a USD 5 Trillion GDP by 2025.
Hope this encourages research for indigenous substitutes for the machines from ASML.
I am assuming raw material is not stuck with Africa for this venture like for batteries.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by SRajesh »

^^^Just a noob question
Is this going to be standard silicon route
Or GaN/Mercury Cadmium route. Is GaN route for civlian use i.e. as a standard chip still in infancy/research stage
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vips »

Govt's Rs 76,000-cr plan to woo chip makers, create semiconductor ecosystem.

The Union Cabinet on Wednesday cleared a comprehensive Rs 76,000-crore ($10-billion) package to build a much-needed semiconductor ecosystem in the country. The incentives will be extended to a range of new units -- greenfield chip fab and display fab units, apart from compound semiconductor and ATMP (assembly, testing, marking, and packaging) facilities.

The package also gives a fiscal push to the fledgling homegrown semiconductor product design companies (fabless players). And backing this effort is support to universities to train 85,000 engineers under the “chips to start-ups” programme.

Semiconductor and display fab units under the scheme will be offered financial support of up to 50% of the project cost. This will be given to eligible players that have the technology, as well as the capacity to execute such high capital and resource incentive projects. The government is targeting the setting up of two semiconductor, as well as display fab units.

To encourage the setting up of compound semiconductor units (which make chips that are used in mobile chargers, electric vehicles, and telecom radios) and ATMP facilities, the government will offer fiscal support of up to 30% of capital expenditure to the approved units. The government expects over 15 such units to come up in this space.

Announcing the package, Ashwini Vaishnaw, communications and electronics & IT minister, sought to hard sell the policy to potential global players that are being offered incentives in other competing countries, such as South Korea, the US, and Taiwan to set fab plants.

“Our biggest advantage is our design ecosystem. We already have 25,000 design engineers in India. All the major economies are today giving 50 per cent capital incentive for semiconductor fab and display fab. We will be giving a similar incentive. But we are also offering something extra -- a clear 20-year roadmap for generating and nurturing talent and making sure that as the industry grows, there is a sufficient number of required talent,” the minister said.

Welcoming the package, IT services industry body Nasscom in a statement said: "Over the next six years, this programme will form the foundation of a new era in electronics manufacturing and will form a vital pillar of the government’s Atmanirbhar Bharat vision, in addition to driving growth and innovation, increasing prospects of job creation, and contributing to addressing the global supply chain crisis."

“The programme has a holistic long-term vision and includes several critical aspects, aside from manufacturing, like growing the pool of skilled engineering talent in India via the chips to start-ups scheme and support to design firms and start-ups, through the design-linked incentive (DLI) scheme," said Rajen Vagadia, VP and president-Qualcomm India & Saarc. "The focus areas of the programme are closely aligned to many of the design and innovation initiatives for India that Qualcomm has invested in over the years and we remain committed to supporting the expansion of a vibrant semiconductor ecosystem in India.”

Sanjay Gupta, managing director, NXP India, said: “This will enable India to become an electronics hub and encourage corporates to start manufacturing in India. It is a big step to bring India on the world map of the semiconductor industry as it will pave the path for the industry to broaden the horizon of research, manufacturing and export. In the long term, issues like a sudden surge in demand for semiconductors will also be addressed. This move will also make the Indian manufacturers globally competitive to attract investment in the areas of core competency and cutting-edge technology.”

The bulk of the funding of the government will go towards setting up fab and fab display plants. According to estimates, the investment required for an advanced technology chip plant (producing 28-nanometre chips and above) in the US is anything between $3 billion and $4 billion, while a modern fab display plant may need a $3-billion investment. With half the investment coming from the government, nearly 60 per cent of the package may be spent on funding these megaprojects, say experts.

According to Satya Gupta, advisor in India Electronics and Semiconductor Association, “the bulk of the government funding will go in chip fab and display fab units. Another $2 billion will go towards funding compound semiconductor plants that require an investment of around $250 million each and OSAT (outsourced semiconductor assembly and test) operations.”

The package includes support to homegrown chip product design companies (fabless companies) that also sell the product by manufacturing it at third-party units. Under the design-linked incentive (DLI), product design-linked incentive of up to 50 per cent of eligible expenditure and product deployment-linked incentive of 4 per cent-6 per cent on net sales for five years will be offered. The government is looking to offer this support to at least 100 domestic companies; it expects at least 20 such companies to hit revenue of Rs 1,500 crore in five years. The plan, according to industry experts, will require over Rs 1,500 crore.

Image
The new policy is the government’s third attempt to create a semiconductor ecosystem in the country. In 2007, Intel showed interest but moved to China and Vietnam instead because the Indian government’s policy and incentives were not thought through. In 2013, the government approved two proposals, one by the Jaypee group with a promise to subsidise the project cost. The promoters failed to raise finances and the projects were aborted.

Giving the thumbs up to the new plan, Hemant Mallapur, co-founder of chip product design company Saankhya Labs, said: “We have never leapfrogged like software companies have been able to. The whole industry has only a few small players with total revenue of not more than $30 million. Designing a chipset is expensive and costs $2-10 million and venture funds don’t fund us. The government incentive will give us a huge boost to grow our business.” He pointed out that currently, Indian chip design firms go to Taiwan to get their chip manufactured and costs are high.

The government through its various expressions of interest floated late last year and this year to gauge interest from global players for fabs has already targeted chip manufacturers. They include Taiwanese majors Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, VIA Technologies, and United Microelectronics Corporation, US giants Intel, Micron Technology, NXP Semiconductors, and Texas Instruments, Japanese players Fuji Electric and Panasonic, European chipmakers Infineon Technologies and STMicroelectronics, and South Korean SK hynix and Samsung. Domestic players like the Tatas and Vedanta have also been approached for OSAT and display fabs, according to sources.

However, some analysts point out that the key to success is building the infrastructure -- abundant water and continuous power supply, and dust-free environment -- an area in which India is still lacking.
isubodh
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by isubodh »

Vips wrote:Govt's Rs 76,000-cr plan to woo chip makers, create semiconductor ecosystem.
However, some analysts point out that the key to success is building the infrastructure -- abundant water and continuous power supply, and dust-free environment -- an area in which India is still lacking.
Don't they recycle water. The US facility is being built in a water scares location and they plan to recycle water.
So what big deal it is in India.
Dust free environment is not like open environment, it is maintained by relevant equipment and control on how the rooms are accessed and its same everywhere.
Power supply can easily be maintained at houses also we are getting almost 24 hrs supply, ofcousre backup will need to there and it will be same everywhere, its a risk that is possible everywhere.

Every article I see on semi conductor in India, don't forget to mention these redundant point as if India is still a totally backward country.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Yagnasri »

Putting us down at every turn is the norm for our press. What is new there.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by csaurabh »

A Nandy wrote: Hope this encourages research for indigenous substitutes for the machines from ASML.
I am assuming raw material is not stuck with Africa for this venture like for batteries.
That is a bit optimistic. Even advanced nations like Japan, Taiwan and China cannot make substitutes for ASML.
A more realistic idea is to develop manufacturing tech for displays, LEDs and power semiconductors, although even that is a stretch given our level of development.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Rishirishi »

csaurabh wrote:
A Nandy wrote: Hope this encourages research for indigenous substitutes for the machines from ASML.
I am assuming raw material is not stuck with Africa for this venture like for batteries.
That is a bit optimistic. Even advanced nations like Japan, Taiwan and China cannot make substitutes for ASML.
A more realistic idea is to develop manufacturing tech for displays, LEDs and power semiconductors, although even that is a stretch given our level of development.

Think of Chip fab's as a printing press. You install the machines and start printing. Even if you can print for a million people, it does not mean you know anything about making the printers. Getting into the making the machines is a very complicated issue. It takes time, creativity, funding and vision. Only way forward is to make Indian innovate and improve the current solutions.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vayutuvan »

csaurabh wrote:A more realistic idea is to develop manufacturing tech for displays, LEDs and power semiconductors, although even that is a stretch given our level of development.
Not necessarily for power semiconductors. They tend to be big in terms of feature sizes. Switching range is also broader and at higher voltage levels.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by Vayutuvan »

isubodh wrote:Don't they recycle water. The US facility is being built in a water scares location and they plan to recycle water.
So what big deal it is in India.
Dust free environment is not like open environment, it is maintained by relevant equipment and control on how the rooms are accessed and its same everywhere.
Excellent points. Let me add that we don't have to indigenize 100% right from the get-go. Indigenize part way through the second plant after we build the first and commission it successfully. At the end of the day, it is a pipeline in the factory of factories.
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

isubodh wrote:
Don't they recycle water. The US facility is being built in a water scares location and they plan to recycle water.
So what big deal it is in India.
Dust free environment is not like open environment, it is maintained by relevant equipment and control on how the rooms are accessed and its same everywhere.
Power supply can easily be maintained at houses also we are getting almost 24 hrs supply, ofcousre backup will need to there and it will be same everywhere, its a risk that is possible everywhere.

Every article I see on semi conductor in India, don't forget to mention these redundant point as if India is still a totally backward country.
This is a very simplistic way of looking at the situation, there are tons of requirements for fabs that are very difficult to fulfill which is why massive long term support is required from the govt, something that a new govt cannot roll back.
1. Power, massive power in the range of multi Mega watts are required, this needs to be guaranteed interruption free. There is no way to provide a UPS for such an installation. This is something only a govt can guarantee in India, will require huge changes to how electricity is supplied to a private customer. The only place that I know of that has guaranteed power like this is the nuclear fuel complex in hyderabad, but, the power requirements will be a fraction in comparison.
2. Dust free environment - very very very important. The class 4 or better clean room that is required for fabs generally will consume huge amounts power and this normally requires the fab itself to be far away from sources of dust and highways etc. The Clean room will filter dust with all sorts of hepa filters and false flooring etc but it is very helpful if the surrounding area is not highly dusty. this generally means that lots of trees are planted and the ground is not just loose soil, it should be grassed over or some other way to reduce generation of dust. I have seen this in BEL bangalore where their CR was situated fairly deep into their campus and that area is surrounded by Ashoka trees (they capture airborne dust) and the open areas have grass all over to avoid dust. Obviously this will mean that the campus will be very large, which again requires govt help to secure.
3. Water: even with high degree of recycling in a fab, Intel says that they consumed 34 million cubic meter of water in their fab yearly in 2015. ref.. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2020/ph240/multani2/ ; India will find it tough to allocate such amounts of water near any large city.

From my personal experience working around a couple of fabs in the US
1. An older gen fab where I installed equipment ended up being closed (new investment was dropped) as a new highway was being constructed nearby (about a mile away) and the city refused to change the alignment. This was causing vibrations in the equipment and it was no longer suitable for upgrading to the 90nm process around 2003.
2. I did work in a fab equipment maker for a time and had access to their site requirements document and it was massive, multiple huge binder (3" thick probably) which had all sorts of power and stability requirements. The production line had an electronic signboard which started a count of the $'s lost for each breakdown and I remember the line going down once and the count went past a million very quickly. I spoke with my manager at the time and he told me that a large portion of the cost was the manpower and electrical cost of running the clean room, he said that it was unthinkable to even consider a power failure to the facility. From memory, after an earthquake in Japan which caused a power fail in several fabs, it took considerable amount of time to get them back to full production.

anyways, my 2 paise to add to the discussion, so take it for what its worth.
cheers
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Re: Indian Manufacturing Sector

Post by vcsekhar »

Vayutuvan wrote:
isubodh wrote:Don't they recycle water. The US facility is being built in a water scares location and they plan to recycle water.
So what big deal it is in India.
Dust free environment is not like open environment, it is maintained by relevant equipment and control on how the rooms are accessed and its same everywhere.
Excellent points. Let me add that we don't have to indigenize 100% right from the get-go. Indigenize part way through the second plant after we build the first and commission it successfully. At the end of the day, it is a pipeline in the factory of factories.
Thinking of Indegenization is going to be incompatible with most of the fab requirements, it is a risk that is not worth taking as if something goes wrong then the costs are just too high. Companies will go with tried and tested equipment that are guaranteed to work.
What will happen eventually if several fabs come up in India, is that a local eco system of suppliers will come up that will start to innovate for the next generation equipment.
we also have to remember that fabs will have to be upgraded regularly, if not, they will never be able to compete in the market.
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