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Postby Rakesh » 24 Nov 2007 02:54


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Postby Laks » 25 Nov 2007 21:30

Saudi realty firm plans 3 bn investment in India
audi Arabia-based realty firm Tanmiyat group is planning an investment of around USD 3 billion in a township project in India, a top company official said.

The group has zeroed in on Bangalore for the project, its first-ever in the Indian market.

"We are in the final stages of fine-tuning our plans for this township project. We will be ready with the final blueprint within the next 2-3-months," Tanmiyat group's Managing Director Bharat Thakkar said.

This would be a mixed-use project and would be completed in phases over a five-year time span, he said.

The project would be distinctive and unique in many respects and "since this is our first venture in India, we will use the project to position ourselves rightly in the market to facilitate our growth thereafter," Thakkar said.

The group was still fine-tuning various aspects of the project, including the investment structure for it, he added.

"The equity component is still fluid and we have yet to decide whether we want to load a debt component onto the project," he said, adding that the average size of the group's projects has been in the range of USD 2.5-3 billion.

Being a mixed-use project, apart from residential accommodation, the project would also have commercial infrastructure.

"Bangalore is well-known for its IT, BPO and bio-tech establishments and these three would constitute focus areas for us," Thakkar said.

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Postby Vipul » 26 Nov 2007 20:29



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Postby Vipul » 03 Dec 2007 20:27


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Postby Singha » 03 Dec 2007 21:32

it seems Purvankara group MD girish purvankara has left the org over a
dispute on getting the pre-IPO shares with ravi purvankara (the CEO). he has founded a new org that will buy up land, market projects but outsource the
construction kind of how akme projects outsourced the actual cons to BL kashyap for ballet and harmony.

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Postby durvasa » 03 Dec 2007 22:30

Singha wrote:....construction kind of how akme projects outsourced the actual cons to BL kashyap for ballet and harmony.


Acme Projects is part of Delhi's Escorts group aka Nanda family. The Alpha Nanda's daughter, AFAIK, is married into Kashyap family (or other way around). So that is all in the family.

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Postby Singha » 03 Dec 2007 23:00

I visited one of sobha new apartments beside the bellandur lake. it is labelled
as a super-luxury but has some peculiar touches. the clubhouse is not anywhere near the brigade millenium/gardenia std but then sobha always keeps the clubhouse frugal. inside the flat the doors leading out to balconies have been given of cheap looking aluminium rather than pvc. the bathrooms were given the minimal treatment - no granite slabs for the basin and basic looking parryware fittings not something better like kohler. baki the fit n finish is satisfactory and outside corridors though wasteful of space (reduces carpet area %) are well made. the windows should have been fenesta type UPVC but are aluminium.
I am told sobha has its own factory to make door frames, doors and windows
so maybe they are stuck with tech thats 3-4 yrs old now. cost for this flat was 3500/sqft in 2Q07 when purchased.

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Postby Vipul » 25 Dec 2007 22:21

Mumbai hotshots surf Alibaug's property wave.

Corporate India is descending on Alibaug for a different reason. The holiday spot, famous for its pristine beaches and a half-hour ferryride from Mumbai, is witnessing brisk land deals by the city’s affluent names.

It’s a long list comprising the who’s who of Mumbai’s corporate world — Mukesh Ambani, Gautam Singhania, Yash Birla, Anand Jain, Haresh Goenka, the Ruias and the Mittals –– who have either bought or are in the process of buying large parcels of land in Alibaug. The other names include Ajit Gulabchand, Gagan Banga of Indiabulls, Rishi Agarwal of ABG Shipyard and Urvi Piramal.

The sleepy villages in and around Alibaug are increasingly turning into an attractive investment destination, given its proximity to Mumbai and emergence of large format SEZ projects. “We believe that Alibaug will soon become the primary residential zone catering to south Mumbai. :shock:

Within the next decade, a lot of economic and commercial activity will be shifted to the Alibaug region,â€

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Postby Vipul » 31 Dec 2007 18:59

Now Dharavi huts are hot property.

There is a new destination in the overheated Mumbai realty market — Dharavi. Property prices in Dharavi are going through the roof and investors, speculators, and builders are all heading there to pick up a hut or two.

But be careful before you make that investment — there is confusion on their legal status, and also on the redevelopment plans of Asia’s largest slum.

Today a shanty in Dharavi, just 10 feet by 10 feet, commands over Rs5 lakh, twice as much as before the bidding began for the Dharavi Redevelopment Project. For commercial property, the going rate is three to four times as much.

“The cost of comâ€

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Postby Vipul » 09 Jan 2008 02:53

19 short-listed for Dharavi project.

Nineteen consortiums involving the who’s who of corporate India have been short-listed after technical scrutiny by a committee of secretaries to redevelop Asia’s biggest slum, Dharavi.

A total of 27 consortiums had submitted their bids after the government announced the Rs9,250 crore project under the Slum Rehabilitation Authority, now headed by Dr T Chandrashekhar as the chief executive officer.

The Indian partners of the 19 consortiums are Reliance Engineering Associates (Mukesh Ambani), Indiabulls, Unitech Ltd, DLF, Godrej Properties, Africa-Israel Investments Ltd, L&T Ltd, Videocon Realty, Kingston Properties, Runwal Developers, MRMGF (a joint venture of Indian and Dubai-based companies), Goenka’s Conwood Group of Companies, Kalpataru, Lanco Infrastructure, Nagarjuna Construction Company, Housing Development and Infastructure Ltd (HDIL), the Lodha Group, Akruti Developers, and Neptune Investments.

The scrutiny of technical bids was conducted by a committee headed by Chief Secretary Johny Joseph. A Mantralaya source said every Indian company in the process has taken a foreign partner.

Now, the 19 selected consortiums will submit financial proposals, of which five will be selected for project implementation, the source said. Financial bids have been invited by the end of January. The final selection will be done in March.

The eight consortiums whose bids were rejected are TCG Urban Infrastructure, Simplex Infrastructure, Shapoorji Pallonji, Utech Developers, Shreenaman Developers, GVK Power and Infrastructure, Poorvankara Projects, and Shobha Developers.

Under the Dharavi redevelopment plan prepared by MM Consultants, there would be five sprawling residential sectors with an industrial zone, educational and health institutions, and recreational facilities.

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Postby Vipul » 10 Jan 2008 19:20

Mhada slum TDR fetches record price.

Another record was created in the city's real estate industry on Wednesday when slum TDR (transfer of development rights) belonging to the Maharashtra housing and area development authority (Mhada) fetched an all-time high price of Rs 3,275 a sq ft. This is the first time the rate of slum TDR has reached this level since it was introduced by the state government a decade ago.

In the construction industry, slum TDR certificates are the equivalent of the stocks of blue-chip companies. They are generated when the developer/owner surrenders his land to the government or agrees to rehouse slumdwellers or project-affected persons free of cost. In turn, he is issued a TDR certificate that gives him extra construction rights in the suburbs, but only to the north of the plot he has surrendered.

The latest stock of slum TDR came from a state government company, Shivshahi Purnavasan Prakalp Ltd (SPPL), which has been entrusted with the task of constructing low-cost houses and tenements to rehouse project-affected persons.

Recently, Mhada had invited bids for about 8,000 sq m of slum TDR which was generated by a SPPL project in Turbhe near Mankhurd. When bids were opened on Wednesday, Swastik Realty quoted Rs 3,275 a sq ft for about 2,000 sq m of slum TDR. The remaining stock was purchased by Mantri Realty at Rs 3,250 a sq ft and another investment company, which paid Rs 3,204 a sq ft. It fetched Mhada Rs 28 crore.

What makes this stock of slum TDR so lucrative is that it can be used in a prime area like Bandra (west) for construction purpose. This is because Mankhurd, where the slum TDR has been generated, falls south of Bandra on the map. (Avg Price in Bandra is 15,000 Rs / sq ft, So 3,275 + 1,000 for construction cost will still enable the builder a profit margin well in excess of 300% Onlee).

Mhada sources told TOI that till a few days ago, the price of slum TDR was around Rs 2,800 a sq ft. Wednesday's record price is an indication of the demand for slum TDR. But such high rates are bad news for flat purchasers as it has a direct impact on the final price of an apartment. Residential property prices are already at a record high, and only a certain class of citizens with high incomes can actual afford to buy a home in Mumbai today.

Builders have reaped a bounty ever since the concept of slum TDR was introduced by the state government a decade ago. Critics call it transfer of disaster rights.

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1-Lakh TrailerHome?

Postby Sanjay M » 20 Jan 2008 09:19

After 1-Lakh Car, A 1-Lakh Home?

The NHB’s project is aimed at bringing home ownership within reach of families with a monthly income of up to Rs 7,300. Some of the cities selected for possible construction of Rs 1-lakh homes are Ahmedabad, Vizag, Nagpur, Bhopal, Patna, Madurai, Indore and Siliguri.

According to Sridhar, these cities were chosen as land is available at affordable rates. Builders say they would look favourably at such a project only if the government provides them land free of cost, he said.


Obviously builders aren't going to want the hassle of acquiring land to build low-margin homes at 1-lakh cost.

So why doesn't the govt consider the idea of mobile homes, trailer homes, etc, for the 1-Lakh home? These types of housing are well-established as affordable housing in the West, even though they may be non-traditional and unfamiliar to the Indian market. With trailer homes, no builder would have to worry about acquiring land, since that would be done by the customer downstream later on.

Market and sell the 1-lakh home as you would a 1-Lakh car.
Although, for practical quality purposes, I would suggest it be priced as a 3,4,5-Lakh home. Because I don't think you could create much of a home for 1-Lakh.

Look at the new wave of pre-fabricated homes in the West. These are a new generation compared to the original Sears Kit Home that was sold in the early 1900s. Some of these new generation pre-fabs are sold as kits.

The Flatpak home:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01 ... _house.php

Furniture giant Ikea's BoKlok home:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7108/

PieceHome:
http://www.piecehomes.com/

MicroCompact House:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06 ... act_ho.php
(watch out the bed doesn't swing down and hit you in the head!)

Bamboo Home:
http://gliving.tv/architecture-design/b ... u-designs/
(bamboo's cheap to grow)

ZeroHouse:
http://www.zerohouse.net/

9tubohouse
http://9tubohouse.com/eng/index.html
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... %2B+design

CoreWall Concept:
http://www.builderonline.com/Industry-n ... eID=209060
(central wall unit contains all utilities, etc)

Trailer Conversion:
http://www.joshspear.com/item/trailerwrap/
http://trailerwrap.net/


This is the kind of stuff that should be looked at for a 1-Lakh home.
I'm sure India could engineer a cheaper version of the Katrina Cottage:
http://thanks-katrina.blogspot.com/2008 ... ttage.html

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Postby SK Mody » 20 Jan 2008 22:00

Rs. 1 mil home, Rs. 1 lakh car, Rs. 10,000 computer and Rs 1000 mobile phone -should bring the Indian middle class up to speed. 8)

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Postby Singha » 21 Jan 2008 09:25

as per Sobha MD, the demand for housing in range 1-5 cr in bLR is growing
at double digit rate and is driven by "large number of scientists and pilots".
by scientists I guess he means R2I types in places like GE or GM.

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Postby Rudranathh » 21 Jan 2008 09:37

SK Mody wrote:Rs. 1 mil home, Rs. 1 lakh car, Rs. 10,000 computer and Rs 1000 mobile phone -should bring the Indian middle class up to speed. 8)

There are already less than 1000Rs phone with tata indicom connection. :)

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Postby Mahendra » 21 Jan 2008 09:46

A question to the gurus out here, the figure of 80% fo Indians living under 2$ a day, which is being peddled around by mainstream newspapers both indian and foreign..how accurate is that value? it certainly doesnt gel properly with the figure of 300 million+ middle class consumers.

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jan 2008 09:46

So affordable housing for the poor should be sub-crore (less than Rs. 1 crore)

Here's another interesting idea called 'Strohaus' (Straw House), which does indeed incorporate straw as a building material:

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/01/18/pre ... itzerland/

http://www.strohhaus.net/

So some sort of cheap, affordable house should be designed to use economical building materials like bamboo and straw, but in a tasteful way that produces a dwelling that any small family would be glad to live in.

On the other hand, the Indian context does have to give consideration to the idea of joint family vs nuclear family.
So maybe you'd need one type of affordable house for the joint family, and a different type of affordable house for the nuclear family.

Furthermore, should one consider designing a house that can be built without use of cement/concrete? Cement/concrete is probably quite a significant expense, especially in today's economy. So perhaps a cleverly-engineered design should be found to bypass it.

I'd think that a guy like Ratan Tata would have an even greater interest in an affordable home than in a 1-Lakh car, since he's originally an architect by training.

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jan 2008 10:03

What initiatives does India have that compare to this?

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/295631

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Postby Sanjay M » 21 Jan 2008 10:24

This Weehouse could be useful in India:

http://purecontemporary.blogs.com/behin ... makes.html

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Postby Rishirishi » 22 Jan 2008 01:28

The cost of "basic" brick construction is approx 800 rupees per sq ft. S0 for 1 lakh, you could thoretically get 120 sq ft. A single bedroom flat with a living room and a smallkitchen, and bathroom will be at least 400 sq ft.

Hence the construction cost will be somewhere in tune of 3,5 lacks.

This is of course excluding land and infrastructure costs.

I was in China, and the government had a very good scheme. It was continusly providing ample supply of plots, by buliding roads and other infrastructure. This results in low cost of new flats.

A flat for 3,5 lakcs, where Rs 50 000 was downpayment and 3 lakcs of loan, would cost no more then Rs 2500 per month. The government may have to dole out huge subsidies in infrastructure, but the construction industry would get a tremendous boost, and people would get places to live.

This may not be feasable in places like Mumbai, but is fully possible in midsize and smaller towns.

The main poblem in India, is the high cost of land, due lack of infrastructure.

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Postby Bade » 22 Jan 2008 04:03

The cost of "basic" brick construction is approx 800 rupees per sq ft.


The costs were around Rs 250/sqft for a decent quality house 10 yrs ago from personal experience. Even assuming cost inflation of 10% per year that would be a factor of 3 only more now.

Costs 2-3 yrs ago for flats were like Rs1000/sqft for flats in most Tier-II cities, where land costs are minimal. Maybe, 20-30% of it is for land which means out of the Rs1000/sqft only Rs700/sqft is the construction related costs including builder's profit margin.

Very likely the actual costs still is not more than Rs500/sqft even now.

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Postby Rishirishi » 22 Jan 2008 04:44

What is the price of flats nowdays, in 2 tier cities?

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Postby Bade » 22 Jan 2008 05:03

The tier-II cities are also going through the roof. I hear even in Dileep's midlands aka Kochi it is almost Rs2000/sqft at the bottom end inside a 20km radius. So is the case in Trivandrum.

All this rise if mostly due to increase in land price by almost 100% in inner city areas over the past 2-3 years.

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Postby Ananth » 22 Jan 2008 05:39

In Hyd on the outskirts the going rate is around 2000/sqft. As you move towards the CBDs the price shoots up to 3000 to 3500/sqft. This is from research done by a close relative. The price quoted is for flats not standalone apts which will attract additional premium. Can anyone else confirm this info?

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Postby Sanjay M » 22 Jan 2008 08:11

Well, I realize that apartments/flats/condos are an obvious route for affordable housing. But again, what about the trailerhome idea? This approach too has also likewise long been associated with affordable housing in the West. And then you don't have to be restricted by central planning on where the next location will be, because people will put their trailers wherever they find most suitable. Hell, they can even relocate their homes if need be, using a transport truck.

Is there some kind of taboo associated with mobile trailer housing? Again, for the poor family that lives in humbler dwellings, a cheap mobile trailer home could be the answer. These days, some creative people are even converting cargo containers into decent-looking dwellings. Perhaps with the right engineering team, a way could be found to convert 1 or more cargo containers into something truly enjoyable to live in.

With India's net trade deficit, there are more cargo containers coming into the country than leaving it(at least bearing goods). Sending an empty cargo container back is a wasted expenditure compared to making efficient domestic use of it.

The cargo container is a uniform standardized modular base unit, from which countless custom homes could be churned out. A single home could be constructed from 1, or 2, or 3, or more of these things. Whole sidewalls might have to be sawed off, etc, but a lot of modifications could be done in a standardized way, ultimately resulting in decent-looking homes at an affordable price that might not otherwise be possible.

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Postby Gaurav_S » 22 Jan 2008 10:23

Guys, in Ahmedabad and specifically western area a apartment of 130-150sq ft can cost approx 20 lacs. And yes, these are recent prices.

Not sure how you arrive at figure of 2000-3000 Rs per sq ft considering these prices applicable in all Tier2 cities now a days. :roll: :-?

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Postby Dileep » 22 Jan 2008 14:13

a apartment of 130-150sq ft can cost approx 20 lacs. And yes, these are recent prices.

Typo?

The running price at the midlands is 2000 to 2400.

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Postby Gaurav_S » 22 Jan 2008 15:56

Dileep wrote:
a apartment of 130-150sq ft can cost approx 20 lacs. And yes, these are recent prices.

Typo?

The running price at the midlands is 2000 to 2400.


oops..mean 130-150sq yds..

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Postby Ananth » 22 Jan 2008 22:13

gauravsurati wrote:
Dileep wrote:
a apartment of 130-150sq ft can cost approx 20 lacs. And yes, these are recent prices.

Typo?

The running price at the midlands is 2000 to 2400.


oops..mean 130-150sq yds..


130-150 sqyds means 1200-1350 sqft for around 20L, gives you 1500-1700 per sqft. That is relatively cheap. Which area of Ahmedabad is this? Is that western area developed one or on the outskirts? In Hyd that price is cheap even for outskirts.

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Postby Rishirishi » 23 Jan 2008 01:49

Well, I realize that apartments/flats/condos are an obvious route for affordable housing. But again, what about the trailerhome idea? This approach too has also likewise long been associated with affordable housing in the West. And then you don't have to be restricted by central planning on where the next location will be, because people will put their trailers wherever they find most suitable. Hell, they can even relocate their homes if need be, using a transport truck.


The trailer route unfeasable, because of expense. they require a lot of land and infrastructue. Also, any trailer is far expensiver then building brick flat. Besides, it is not really a permanent solution.

I think the best way forward is to reduce duties on building material, build more infrastructure and have a good finance system. (subsidies small loans). With income rising, I think it will not take a long time, before even factory workers can afford to pay 5-6 000 rupees towards a mortgage.

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Postby Gaurav_S » 23 Jan 2008 04:21

Ananth wrote:
gauravsurati wrote:
Dileep wrote:
a apartment of 130-150sq ft can cost approx 20 lacs. And yes, these are recent prices.

Typo?

The running price at the midlands is 2000 to 2400.


oops..mean 130-150sq yds..


130-150 sqyds means 1200-1350 sqft for around 20L, gives you 1500-1700 per sqft. That is relatively cheap. Which area of Ahmedabad is this? Is that western area developed one or on the outskirts? In Hyd that price is cheap even for outskirts.


Its 2BHK 2-3K far from SG Road towards Science City. The scheme has just been finalised and its going to materialize by end of 2008. If you are looking for something already under construction or built then expect atleast 25-28lacs in this area for same size apartment.

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Postby SwamyG » 23 Jan 2008 05:48

I chanced upon a property near Shameerpet (away from Hyderabad) near the Genome Valley. The rate is Rs.3,800 per sq. yd. This is away from the IT and New Airport area, so the appreciation must be little slower.

Is the price ballooned up or is it the standard for that area?

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Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2008 06:58

how is bangalore going? still sky rocketing.. i am not happy about this ever expansion, and never come down.. take the US market, that crashed.. of course there are markets in US that doesn't go up or down and maintain a steady 4-10% up or down.. but still is market driven..

but in India, its always reaching peaks.. real estates are not stock market.. and it leaves only the better always better, and the corrections never get a chance to happen.. where is kalamji's pura plan to happen with this kind of trend.

we need to regulate real estates in India, so that poor is also benefited.

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Postby Rajesh_MR » 23 Jan 2008 07:14

SaiK wrote:how is bangalore going? still sky rocketing..

Some of our relatives are looking for an apartment in B'lore, this is what they found. "medium cost" housing is easy to find. Places where builders earlier said "sold out" is now becoming available. Price seems to have not gone down as such but some goodies are getting added. Premium housing projects are still highly priced inline with what Singha posted about Shoba guy saying 1Cr+ demand going up.

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Postby Rishirishi » 23 Jan 2008 23:11

we need to regulate real estates in India, so that poor is also benefited.


Regulation has seldom helped. The best thing the government can do, it to build infrastrucure and make more land available for construction.

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Postby Sanjay M » 24 Jan 2008 06:49

Rishirishi wrote:
Well, I realize that apartments/flats/condos are an obvious route for affordable housing. But again, what about the trailerhome idea? This approach too has also likewise long been associated with affordable housing in the West. And then you don't have to be restricted by central planning on where the next location will be, because people will put their trailers wherever they find most suitable. Hell, they can even relocate their homes if need be, using a transport truck.


The trailer route unfeasable, because of expense. they require a lot of land and infrastructue. Also, any trailer is far expensiver then building brick flat. Besides, it is not really a permanent solution.

I think the best way forward is to reduce duties on building material, build more infrastructure and have a good finance system. (subsidies small loans). With income rising, I think it will not take a long time, before even factory workers can afford to pay 5-6 000 rupees towards a mortgage.


I don't see why trailers/mobile homes have to be less feasible/practical. It seems to me that cargo shipping containers can be had on the cheap, and in a factory environment they could be converted en masse into something decent and tasteful. Then these could be transported by truck just like regular cargo containers for delivery to customers.

Perhaps they could be fitted with cheap solar or wind power or electricity-generating stove.

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Postby Bade » 24 Jan 2008 07:00

We already have our trailer trash as in Dharavi slums. How will it be any different in the Indian context ? Better to have a Cabrini Green style stacked up match boxes than spread out ones. We need cheap houses in the millions for our inner cities.

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Postby Rishirishi » 24 Jan 2008 21:44

I don't see why trailers/mobile homes have to be less feasible/practical. It seems to me that cargo shipping containers can be had on the cheap, and in a factory environment they could be converted en masse into something decent and tasteful. Then these could be transported by truck just like regular cargo containers for delivery to customers.

Perhaps they could be fitted with cheap solar or wind power or electricity-generating stove.


Please do some reaserch and find out the cost of a an empty cargo container. Then add the costs of a mobile toilet, windows, and a mini cooking area.
Then figure out how much land you will need to house community of 10 000 people.

Do the maths, and let us know.

Rishirishi
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Postby Rishirishi » 24 Jan 2008 21:56


We already have our trailer trash as in Dharavi slums. How will it be any different in the Indian context ? Better to have a Cabrini Green style stacked up match boxes than spread out ones. We need cheap houses in the millions for our inner cities.


We have to avoid low income gettos, wich can lead to a great deal of social problems. Me thinks the answer to the housing problem is availability of infrastructure, lower interest rates. lower cost of building material and income growth.

Any radical Mao style "cultural revolution" is going to backfire.


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