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Indian Real Estate Sector

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vasu » 07 Jun 2013 11:47

Real estate regulator: Harsh rules & soft banks will keep realty unclean

After politicians, builders are the most despised lot.

The housing market is about spiralling rates that have priced out most buyers, ambitious developers who are answerable to no one, emergence of property as an asset class and mortgage instalments becoming the dominant outgo in household budgets.

Like politicians, developers require no qualification: anyone with a claim on a slice of land can put out an advertisement to attract buyers. It's a business that employs millions and flourishes without a watchdog. Thus, any hint of a new law that assures fair deals and exemplary punishments that would be handed out by a new regulator is irresistible.

But it won't be a cakewalk. Advocates of such legislation should be prepared for the tortuous road towards a well-regulated and cleaner property market.

First, home prices could go up in the medium term. Once the new Real Estate (Regulation and Development) Bill, 2013, becomes law, builders would be barred from selling a project till all approvals — as many as 70 of them — are in place. This would delay launch of new projects and push up prices of those that are cleared.

Second, corruption may rise as multiple agencies drag their feet on clearances. Developers may strike convoluted deals giving buyers the option to purchase later. Third, disqualifying a shoddy builder could stall construction in all half-done projects and hurt genuine buyers. And, lastly, the validity of many regulatory actions could be challenged in higher courts.

But throwing the rule book would be ahalfway measure if men who bankroll developers are unwilling to pull the plug. More than any rule, this alone can make the biggest difference to the Indian property mart. So far, it hasn't happened. Banks could have brought about the change in 2008-09 when one of India's largest builders was on the brink of collapse.

Instead, lenders threw a lifeline to keep it afloat. While realty stocks plunged 90%, generous bankers thwarted a natural correction in property prices. India was among the few countries where real estate prices did not fall — in fact, even rose in cities like Mumbai — post Lehman. It was a reminder of the clout the trade wields.

Pushing a righteous Bill a year before the polls may be a brilliant idea by the government. But make no mistake. It's aimed to restrain a formidable lobby.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vasu » 07 Jun 2013 11:50

Mumbai's mangroves too have been victims to the greed for land.

50 acres of mangroves destroyed in Mumbai

Around 50 acres of mangroves were allegedly destroyed in Lokhandwala by planting "invasive species" and creating a debris path, which residents claimed was a new modus operandi to kill the green belt.

The tehsildar said that despite the highest tide of the month on May 23, no sea water entered the area, resulting in the death of mangroves.

"Blocking tide water into the inter-tidal wetlands and planting different types of vegetation that are not found in wetlands, after dumping debris, is a technique used to convert coastal regulatory zone (CRZ-1) land into areas with development potential," said Stalin D of the Vanashakti NGO.

The residents lodged a police complaint when they noticed almost 300kg of tree branches bundled together.

"A nursery was first created adjacent to the road. Then a path was created to dump debris and pave the way for construction. This was also done to distort satellite imagery, which shows mangroves at the site," said Ashoke Pandit, chairperson of the Oshiwara Lokhandwala Citizens' Association (OLCA).

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Bade » 08 Jun 2013 19:12

IIT-Madras engineers showcase low cost housing model: 800 sq ft house for Rs 10 lakh
NEW DELHI: Believe it or not, researchers at Indian Institute of Technology, Madras have developed a unique method where one can construct a two-bedroom house of 800 square feet for a cost of just Rs 10 lakh.

The researchers from the civil engineering department have been working on the project for over a decade and have constructed a two-storey building to showcase the technology they developed to build rapid, cost-effective mass housing using glass fibre reinforced gypsum (GFRG) panels.

The researchers have constructed a 'model housing apartment' inside the IIT-M campus comprising four flats in a two-storeyed building. Interestingly, this method of construction is not only less expensive, but also less time consuming as the 'GFRG demo building' was constructed by the IIT team in just a month. Since 2003, the IIT-Madras research team had conducted extensive studies on the use of these panels as structural members for all components of the building, including earthquake resistant design. These panels, originally developed by RBS Australia, were intended as wall panels ('Rapidwall') suitable for rapid erection of walls in buildings to carry gravity loads.

The panels are made of calcined gypsum plaster, combined with special additives and glass fibres, to produce GFRG panels - 12m long, 3m high and 124mm thick (with hollow cavities). The IIT-M research group extended the application of this product for the entire building system - including floors, roofs, and staircases, thus significantly reducing the consumption of reinforced cement concrete (RCC). The team also collaborated in the indigenous development of an excellent water-proofing material, which is essential for prolonged durability of the GFRG panels, especially in the case of roofs and toilets.

The GFRG panels for the 'demo building' at IIT-M have come from the plant of FACT-RCF Building Products Ltd, Kochi, using reprocessed gypsum from FACT. The building has four units, making up a total built-up area of 1981 square feet - two flats with a carpet area of 269 square feet each, intended for the economically weaker section (EWS), and another two, with a carpet area of 497 square feet each, intended for the low-income group (LIG). The plans can be replicated horizontally (in plan) and vertically (in elevation) in mass housing projects. This demonstration building will also be used by another research group at IIT-Madras working on decentralized solar photovoltaic systems with Direct Current (DC) appliances, to demonstrate savings in electrical energy consumption.

Bhaskar Ramamurthi, director, IIT-M said:"The GFRG building, which is fit for occupation, showcases the efficacy of the rapid affordable construction technology developed at IIT-M, and is replicable for mass housing, vertically and horizontally. The use of prefabricated light-weight GFRG panels not only implies faster overall construction time but also a safer working environment. The cost of the construction, with all amenities, has been reduced to about Rs 1,250 per square foot." The panels are prefabricated and cut to desired sizes based on room dimensions with openings for doors and windows, thus making rapid construction possible.

A panel has two skins of 15 mm thickness that are interconnected at regular intervals (250 mm) with 20 mm thick ribs. The cavities formed by these interconnections can be used for several purposes - filling with concrete, and laying electrical conduits and plumbing pipes. Explaining the building concept, Devdas Menon and A Meher Prasad of civil engineering department, IIT-M said: "Filling the cavities with concrete increases the vertical load-carrying capacity almost tenfold, and inserting vertical steel bars in these cavities, contributes to their earthquake resistance.

In a multi-storeyed building, the number of concrete-filled cavities and steel bars can be reduced at the higher floor levels. When used as floor slabs, reinforced concrete beams can be embedded and hidden in some of the cavities, as per the design. The overall weight of the structure and consumption of concrete comes down significantly. Conventional plastering is eliminated."

When will such technologies start being used in mid and upper segment housing too now that material can be sourced locally from within India.

Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Jun 2013 21:59

While it might help a little bit, it is no panacea for Indian situation land prices being what they are.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vasu » 19 Jun 2013 10:07

Just wanted to post it here to show how the lure of tourism money is so great for builders and authorities to have allowed a ruthless spate of construction in the higher reaches of the state.

Uttarakhand: Hundreds of buildings washed away were illegal

More than 300 multi-storey buildings, hotels, shops and other business establishments, built on ecologically-sensitive areas close to Ganga and its tributaries like Alaknanda, Mandakini, Bhagirathi, Kali Ganga and Gauri Ganga, which were swept away or were extensively damaged due to flash floods, were illegally constructed.

"Documentary evidence with the department of town planning indicates that most of these structures, including 60 hotels in Chamoli and Rudrapryag, were built in blatant violation of norms laid down by the department," said a senior Uttarakhand government official.

A survey by a 10-member team of officials in the town planning department a few years ago revealed most of these structures were built before Uttarakhand was carved out in 2000. Owners of these hotels and houses did not bother to obtain permission from competent authorities like district magistrates and sub-divisional magistrates before building these structures in the ecologically-sensitive areas close to rivers.

DMs and chairmen of development authorities in all the 13 districts have begun identifying illegal hotels and buildings close to the Ganga and its tributaries which were ordered to be demolished by a HC directive two months ago.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby ChandraV » 20 Jun 2013 22:47

Bade wrote:IIT-Madras engineers showcase low cost housing model: 800 sq ft house for Rs 10 lakh
NEW DELHI: Believe it or not, researchers at Indian Institute of Technology, Madras have developed a unique method where one can construct a two-bedroom house of 800 square feet for a cost of just Rs 10 lakh.

The researchers from the civil engineering department have been working on the project for over a decade and have constructed a two-storey building to showcase the technology they developed to build rapid, cost-effective mass housing using glass fibre reinforced gypsum (GFRG) panels.

The researchers have constructed a 'model housing apartment' inside the IIT-M campus comprising four flats in a two-storeyed building. Interestingly, this method of construction is not only less expensive, but also less time consuming as the 'GFRG demo building' was constructed by the IIT team in just a month. Since 2003, the IIT-Madras research team had conducted extensive studies on the use of these panels as structural members for all components of the building, including earthquake resistant design. These panels, originally developed by RBS Australia, were intended as wall panels ('Rapidwall') suitable for rapid erection of walls in buildings to carry gravity loads.

The panels are made of calcined gypsum plaster, combined with special additives and glass fibres, to produce GFRG panels - 12m long, 3m high and 124mm thick (with hollow cavities). The IIT-M research group extended the application of this product for the entire building system - including floors, roofs, and staircases, thus significantly reducing the consumption of reinforced cement concrete (RCC). The team also collaborated in the indigenous development of an excellent water-proofing material, which is essential for prolonged durability of the GFRG panels, especially in the case of roofs and toilets.

The GFRG panels for the 'demo building' at IIT-M have come from the plant of FACT-RCF Building Products Ltd, Kochi, using reprocessed gypsum from FACT. The building has four units, making up a total built-up area of 1981 square feet - two flats with a carpet area of 269 square feet each, intended for the economically weaker section (EWS), and another two, with a carpet area of 497 square feet each, intended for the low-income group (LIG). The plans can be replicated horizontally (in plan) and vertically (in elevation) in mass housing projects. This demonstration building will also be used by another research group at IIT-Madras working on decentralized solar photovoltaic systems with Direct Current (DC) appliances, to demonstrate savings in electrical energy consumption.

Bhaskar Ramamurthi, director, IIT-M said:"The GFRG building, which is fit for occupation, showcases the efficacy of the rapid affordable construction technology developed at IIT-M, and is replicable for mass housing, vertically and horizontally. The use of prefabricated light-weight GFRG panels not only implies faster overall construction time but also a safer working environment. The cost of the construction, with all amenities, has been reduced to about Rs 1,250 per square foot." The panels are prefabricated and cut to desired sizes based on room dimensions with openings for doors and windows, thus making rapid construction possible.

A panel has two skins of 15 mm thickness that are interconnected at regular intervals (250 mm) with 20 mm thick ribs. The cavities formed by these interconnections can be used for several purposes - filling with concrete, and laying electrical conduits and plumbing pipes. Explaining the building concept, Devdas Menon and A Meher Prasad of civil engineering department, IIT-M said: "Filling the cavities with concrete increases the vertical load-carrying capacity almost tenfold, and inserting vertical steel bars in these cavities, contributes to their earthquake resistance.

In a multi-storeyed building, the number of concrete-filled cavities and steel bars can be reduced at the higher floor levels. When used as floor slabs, reinforced concrete beams can be embedded and hidden in some of the cavities, as per the design. The overall weight of the structure and consumption of concrete comes down significantly. Conventional plastering is eliminated."

When will such technologies start being used in mid and upper segment housing too now that material can be sourced locally from within India.


I don't see the point here. Construction costs even for "normal" RCC construction range from Rs. 1100 to Rs. 1500 (the sky is the limit here). I built a house in Bangalore recently and the cost came to approximately Rs. 1400 per square foot, and I splurged on fancy Jaquar bath accessories and expensive granite etc. I could have managed for less than Rs. 1250 if I had been a little thrifty. And the contractor has his margins here - a contractor can build it for less than Rs. 1000 per square foot. Basic no-frills construction can be managed for as little as Rs. 800 per square foot.

So, I don't see the big achievement that is being trumpeted here. The killer in India is land price. Land costs are nearly 70-75% of overall project cost in many cases. This is just a fancy news item with zero practical value.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby SaiK » 30 Jun 2013 02:43

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... epage=true

I am sure RE market will be hit on the news. nice time to buy in chennai

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby SaiK » 22 Jul 2013 05:50

I need help from people who know kannada. I can read to some extent, but very minimal to identify certain characters.

http://www.karnataka.gov.in/karigr/Valu ... 0VALUE.rar
01 - Jayanagar _05-104_.pdf

Here, I am looking for land guidance value at BTM Layout. there are three columns.. what are those?
TIA

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby SaiK » 22 Jul 2013 21:33

thank you marten, let me drill down see if I can get some use of it.

ps: it does not return any value for me.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vikas » 04 Aug 2013 11:31

Guys, Any guidance on buying a 3 BHK Appt/House or Land in Bangalore. The budget for the house INR 50 Lakhs (Not sure if this is even practical) and idea is to buy something within the city and not go out to places like new Airport or way down Electronic city.
I am looking for something which is move in ready or can be made ready in 4-5 months.
Now that I have surrendered to MNC's and figured that my future probably is tied to Silicone City only.

Any guidance is appreciated.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby kmkraoind » 04 Aug 2013 12:45

VikasRaina wrote:Guys, Any guidance on buying a 3 BHK Appt/House or Land in Bangalore. The budget for the house INR 50 Lakhs (Not sure if this is even practical) and idea is to buy something within the city and not go out to places like new Airport or way down Electronic city.
I am looking for something which is move in ready or can be made ready in 4-5 months.
Now that I have surrendered to MNC's and figured that my future probably is tied to Silicone City only.

Any guidance is appreciated.


Sire, I recommend Uttarahalli area (South-West Bangalore). Its approx 9-10 km distance from Majestic (Busstand) and is developing pretty fast with every major bank having branches, pretty good connectivity and tons of schools and eateries. You can check out Siri Homes (no website) and you may get 3BHK house in the range of 30-40 lakhs depending upon the area. But it will take anywhere between 12-18 months for completion of that project. If you are a tech coolie, search areas near ITPL or Bannaregatta Road, since they are near to the SW hubs. May be some senior members have better ideas.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby vera_k » 11 Sep 2013 19:48

This article says that FIIs were allowed to invest in Indian real estate starting 2005. That coincides with the start of the rapid run up in prices.

A housing slump in India

a large international real estate investment firm started in 2005. That was the year India began allowing foreign institutional investors into its real estate market.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Bade » 11 Sep 2013 20:49

The good news on falling prices is met with much groaning and moaning.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 479932.cms

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby KJo » 11 Sep 2013 21:05

Bade wrote:The good news on falling prices is met with much groaning and moaning.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/busi ... 479932.cms


Nothing can go up forever, regardless of what the India Shining brigade says.
So this is actually healthy if true, and better than a big big crash down the road like what happened in the US.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Bade » 12 Sep 2013 01:17

There was a ToI artcile which mentioned Dilli Billis crying over having to do price-cut of 2 crores over a 10 crore property. Wonder what it is like where people can actually buy in the 50L+ but much less than 1 crore range.

B'lur seems to be reporting also a 15-20% correction. But the developers are still spamming me with pricey quotes.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Theo_Fidel » 12 Sep 2013 02:07

I’m curious what it really costs these builders to slap these things together in India. In the USA builders work on 20%-30% construction margins with heavy marketing and sales costs. So actual margin tends to be quite low. 2%-3% margin is not unusual. Anyone know what the actual margins are for the builders?

I have before me a construction critical path document and I’m looking at the labor estimates to construct a condo here in the USA in an earthquake prone area. Right now for a 2400 sqft condo the estimate is 1300 man hours. Or roughly 162 days for a single person. Or roughly 1 month for a crew of 5 persons. So I wonder what the labor requirements are as well?

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Vipul » 13 Sep 2013 20:27

I do not know about the practice of charging and hence the margins of builders in rest of India but in the suburbs of mumbai while the builders charge you on "Super Built up" basis the actual area given is carpet, that is 100% Profit on 20% area.Note that the difference can be 33% in super built up area calculations but i have taken just 20% (Built up) to account for the construction the builder has to do for common areas (on passage ways, terrace etc).

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby V_Raman » 13 Sep 2013 21:00

Indian real estate and loan pricing is daylight robbery. We need clear regulations. Builders can only charge for actual carpet area, loan payments start only on property registration complete, daily avg rate on interest calculation, proper escrow companies, title insurance etc. etc.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Ajatshatru » 14 Sep 2013 15:59

A friend of mine purchased an apartment at Ulwe in Navi Mumbai.

The builder sold the apartment to him claiming the area of the apartment as 1250 square feet. My friend tells me the actual (measurable) carpet area of the apartment is closer to the 675 square feet mark. The difference, I am told, is the "loading factor" which earlier, perhaps, was referred to as the "super-built up area".

Again, my friend tells me when buying an apartment in the Ulwe area, a particular builder may quote a basic rate of the apartment as, let's say, "X" amount per square feet. Starting from the 3-5th floor, a builder may charge Rs 30-40 per square feet extra per floor rise. Rs 250 per square feet is further added by the builder as the "development charge", plus another Rs 2 lacs charged for the open parking and Rs 4 lacs for the stilt parking.

Most of these buildings have little or no amenities (health club, jogging track, swimming pool etc.) and the only thing available is the parking space in the building and again told by my friend that most builders even charge the buyers for this facility.
Last edited by Ajatshatru on 14 Sep 2013 16:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Ajatshatru » 14 Sep 2013 16:22

Excluding the land cost, while constructing a house/building in India and depending on the location, the total construction cost (including material, labour etc.) may range anything between approx. Rs 800 per square feet to Rs 1400 per square feet.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Sriman » 15 Sep 2013 11:47

kmkraoind wrote:Sire, I recommend Uttarahalli area (South-West Bangalore). Its approx 9-10 km distance from Majestic (Busstand) and is developing pretty fast with every major bank having branches, pretty good connectivity and tons of schools and eateries. You can check out Siri Homes (no website) and you may get 3BHK house in the range of 30-40 lakhs depending upon the area. But it will take anywhere between 12-18 months for completion of that project. If you are a tech coolie, search areas near ITPL or Bannaregatta Road, since they are near to the SW hubs. May be some senior members have better ideas.

Please check thoroughly before you look at Siri. There's a property called Rainbow Waterfront opposite Uttarahalli lake which has a new block coming up. Looks pretty well built. There's also a Mantri property (Alpyne) coming up a kilometer down the road near RNSIT. But 50 lakhs for a 3BHK will be a stretch there. A caveat, there was water shortage in Uttarahalli this year. Water abundance in South Bangalore is no longer a certainty.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby SaiK » 16 Sep 2013 09:00

I challenge the BJP party to put in their manifesto to reduce the property tax to a flat 4% on actual transaction. no black, and if found of any cash transaction not on papers, shall be confiscated. no transaction is without a bank involvement, and no property can be purchased on cash, except for gov fees and stamp papers.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Ajatshatru » 17 Sep 2013 18:14

"Property bubble bursts as prices crash 20% in investor-driven markets"

http://www.firstpost.com/economy/proper ... 77885.html

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby vera_k » 26 Sep 2013 04:44

New Delhi’s Dengue Fever Problem

Since most mosquitoes will fly lower than 40 feet, one way to control this problem is to update building codes so residential apartments are required to be at least 40 feet off the ground. Probably easier done in urban areas where those levels can accommodate parking garages.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Aditya_V » 26 Sep 2013 19:24

SaiK wrote:I challenge the BJP party to put in their manifesto to reduce the property tax to a flat 4% on actual transaction. no black, and if found of any cash transaction not on papers, shall be confiscated. no transaction is without a bank involvement, and no property can be purchased on cash, except for gov fees and stamp papers.


Why BJP?

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Rahul Mehta » 19 Dec 2013 19:55

How much land we need to house all in Mumbai\Delhi\India? 15% , 5% and 1% only !!!

Mumbai has some 5-6 zones, of which Greater Mumbai is the densest with population density of 20000 per sqkm. Pls grab calculator or excel, and start google to verify the calculations\data I am giving

Lets say we decide to give living space of 200 sqft per person = 1000 sqft per family of five members. It will NOT be free at all. They will all buy with their own money. But how much land do we need? And does mumbai has that much land?

Lets take FSI of 3.

Now population of Greater Mumbai = say 1.3 crore
so sqft construction housing area we need = 1.3 crore * 200 sqft/person = 260 crore sqft = approx 26 crore sq-meter
Say floor space index as per law is = 3
So land we need = 26/3 = 8.67 crore sq meters
Land area of Mumbai = 603 sqkm = 60.3 crore sq-meters

So land of mumbai needed = 8.67/60.3 = below 15%

So 15% land is enough to provide houses problem to ALL persons living in the densest area in India !!

If one does same calculations for Delhi etc, he may find than 5% of land with FSI of 3 is enough to provide housing to all. And for India, 0.5% of land is sufficient.

So why is land so expensive even for someone who wants mere 200 sqft per person or mere 1000 sqft per family of five? Thats ONLY because of land hoarding ONLY. Solution? Wealth Tax and Inheritance. Pls see chap-25, and chap-5 of http://rahulmehta.com/301.htm . Wealth tax of 1% will bring down the land prices to a point that even a laborer earning mere Rs 10000 per month will be able to buy land\flat on his own with his own savings. Further, as land pries reduces, more businesses will come which will increase employment and increase salaries.

The whole idea of Govt providing low cost housing is non-sense. Because such houses are of extremely poor quality, and the societies run into maintenance problems for lifts and water. The plumbing, electricity etc is of worst quality. Instead, its best that Govt makes laws which ensure that land hoarding doesnt happen. Govt should make some laws to reduce water wastages, lift usage etc How? Water usage can be reduce by water metering. And lift usage can be reduced by metering lifts, and making law that stair case step height will be no more six inches. And maintenance collection should be via direct deposit from salary/bank account to society account. This will be sufficient to improve housing.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby member_28173 » 10 Jan 2014 13:03

[quote="Rahul Mehta"]How much land we need to house all in Mumbai\Delhi\India? 15% , 5% and 1% only !!!

Me seems to be fan of Rahul Mehta.

I agree that Mumbai can safely provide HOUSING and also JOBS for 2 Crore people if laws and systems are RIGHT.

We just need few ROADs and Mumbai will be back in business. Me Mumbaikar :)

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Rishirishi » 11 Jan 2014 05:51

Theo_Fidel wrote:I’m curious what it really costs these builders to slap these things together in India. In the USA builders work on 20%-30% construction margins with heavy marketing and sales costs. So actual margin tends to be quite low. 2%-3% margin is not unusual. Anyone know what the actual margins are for the builders?

I have before me a construction critical path document and I’m looking at the labor estimates to construct a condo here in the USA in an earthquake prone area. Right now for a 2400 sqft condo the estimate is 1300 man hours. Or roughly 162 days for a single person. Or roughly 1 month for a crew of 5 persons. So I wonder what the labor requirements are as well?



Dont know where you live, but currently it is much cheaper to purchase a used one. Or refurbish a old house.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jan 2014 12:17

No one touches a green field real estate project in India with less than 25% pre tax Equity IRR.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jan 2014 12:43

Further, the builders make money by purchasing land much in advance at low prices. By the time area and land become suitable for development, the land would have appreciated by a minimum of 100%. The final product would be priced based on this latest valuation. Effectively, the developer makes profits even before the project us off the ground. It is another matter that end product is priced at higher land valuation with further profits margin built into it. All Maya onlee!!!!!

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby krishnan » 11 Jan 2014 13:20

also builders being 3 houses where only 2 can be done, they somehow manage to squeeze every inch out, makes for additional profit, these days i dont even see mandatory vacant area that is supposed to be left around the place.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Bade » 12 Jan 2014 03:10

^^^ End result is the whole town looks like a mega concrete slum. Sad.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby rohitvats » 13 Jan 2014 14:33

krishnan wrote:also builders being 3 houses where only 2 can be done, they somehow manage to squeeze every inch out, makes for additional profit, these days i dont even see mandatory vacant area that is supposed to be left around the place.


Well, that is an over generalization.

Yes, the developer community is as corrupt as they come and they indulge in all sorts of malpractices but what you suggest is an exception and not the norm.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Sachin » 14 Jan 2014 16:56

krishnan wrote:these days i dont even see mandatory vacant area that is supposed to be left around the place.

In my home town a builder has offered the vacant area (which is ideally meant for fire engines to come in, if the place catches fire) as the car park. And neatly charged 1 lakh on this ground :evil: . The rumours are that builder too is not doing great, and have started selling out a few of his projects to other builders. The people are all basically fund jugglers who roll the money in fancy ways. But when things go wrong, it is a deep mess at that time.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby rohitvats » 14 Jan 2014 17:46

Lot of good development with respect to Office space segment in India is courtesy the IT/ITES sector and the standards it has enforced on the developers.

Companies like IBM, Accenture, Cisco and others have a very evolved corporate real estate policies for work places and the specifications of the buildings they take on lease reflect these requirements. These companies have a policy where the safety of an employee within certain meters of the workplace is the responsibility of the company and hence, requirement specifications are meant to ensure this aspect is enforced.

While the National Building Code and fire-safety norms have existed for many years, it is the end user requirement which has forced developers to adopt these. The technical check-list for a company runs into multiple pages and but for the technical team of the builder, even developer cannot understand/fill these. IBM used to have annual training modules to explain and teach their checklists and transaction SOP to account manager(s) from Cushman & Wakefield India - which globally manages real estate requirement for IBM. Just as an aside, this company has the exclusive leasing and marketing rights for the one of the freedom towers.

Most of the big names in IT/ITES and financial space are global or regional mandates of one of the six International Property Consultants (IPC) in India - Cushman & Wakefield, Jones Lang LaSalle, CB Richard Ellis, Knight Frank, Colliers and DTZ. The first three are the big brothers with most of the corporate real estate accounts like IBM, CISCO, Accenture etc.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Rahul Mehta » 19 Jan 2014 08:22

A friend of mine who bought/sold flat in Estonia told me about Estonian law that, when A sales land to B for price P, then within 30 days, govt can acquire land from B for price P plus 5% !! This law removed unaccounted cash from real estate deal overnight !!!

I have been supporting/demanding/proposing this law since 1998. Can any BRFites get more info on this Estonian law?

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Adrija » 19 Jan 2014 17:27

RM ji, such a law already exists- the government can step in and purchase any property at the declared price. was used by V P Singh when he was FM IIRC

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby rohitvats » 19 Jan 2014 18:59

^^^The land acquisition act cannot be applied arbitrarily. The mess that one witnessed in Noida extension and what has just happened in Gurgaon is because of misuse of this act by state governments in collusion with developers. Basically, the government using the provisions of land acquisition act acquired the land for 'public use' and then sold it to developers. Of course, there was a huge difference in what the government paid and what the developers would have paid if they had acquired the land directly from landlords in open market.

So, no, you cannot just go about acquiring people's properties. There has to be a cause behind it - like how it happens in case of highways, railway lines and widening of the roads etc.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby kumarn » 20 Jan 2014 11:57

Removing capital gains tax from real estate and lowering stamp duty is the only option in India if you want to remove black money from real estate.

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Re: Indian Real Estate Sector

Postby Rahul Mehta » 24 Jan 2014 14:14

Rahul mehta : ... The wealth tax of 1% above 250sqft land per person and 500 sqft per person construction, and deemed auction at the time of sale are sufficient to remove black money in real estate. I see no need to remove capital gains tax. I agree with removal of stamp duty as it decreases liquity and substitute it by wealth tax

Theo_Fidel]: Wealth tax of 1% would bankrupt the large majority of middle class India. Introduce it slower. Say. 0.005% for 10 years then 0.01% for 5 years and so on. Compared to most other places stamp duty in India is quite low. I paid just over 6% last year. My advice to folks is cough it up. Taxes run the country. In USA for other than your own house capital gains is your highest tax bracket, usually 30% or more.

SRoy: He wants commoner likes us to pay 1% property tax (annually?) when we already are under housing loan debts in an economy which is clearly employment unfriendly. We will end up extending our loan tenures (that is if we survive lay offs).


Please read whole para. My proposal is wealth tax of 1% per year of market value on land above 250sqft per person land and above 500 sqft per person of construction . Now pls re-read the exemption limits, and pls see that it is per person. And senior citizen above 60 years will have twice the limit and those above 75 years will have 3 times the limit and those above 85 years will have 4 times the limit. So husband, wife, 2 kids and one senior parent will have 1500 sqft land and 3000 sqft construction exempt, be commercial or industrial or residential. Further, in the proposal I made, the tax will be higher of the two (30% of rent or 1% of market value) but not both. In addition, if property is commercial or industrial, then taxes he pays such as electricity tax, 10% of PF of his employees etc will be deducted. Initially, market value will be circle rate and later it will be revised.

So only land hoarders will be adversely effected by this wealth tax. Further, with this tax, urban land prices will crash to below 20% of what it is now within 3 months. (or we will have enough tax that we can get rid of income tax, sales tax, vat , stamp duty etc) So on real users, this tax will NOT be much. Further, collapse of land prices will increase employment, business and thus increase income tax.

The housing loan mess is because land prices increased and people had to take loans. The wealth tax on land will crash land prices and so people will be able to buy small flats without loans.
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 25 Jan 2014 07:42, edited 1 time in total.


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