Apart from punishment, I think the circumstances are different in the two countries and hence there is an element of societal influences. In India it is part of life. I remember as kids we used to pester our dad to utilize the official jeep or contractor provided car/jeep to drop us at the train station ithyadi. Dad refused all the time. The contractors all the time held low hanging fruits and humans are bound to reach out for them during their life time.
Before coming to USA, I took car driving lessons for Rs1800. It was a package deal - assured of getting International Driving License. I saw how the driving schools meandered and worked the government system and get the license.
I bring the issues because the subject of corruption was brought up earlier. Is it possible to talk about pay increases without corruption and other issues? Do the pay commissions think about corruption while adjusting the salaries?
Sixth Pay Commission
In the US,senators and legislators are openly bought and sold with any disgust or remorse.It's business as usual.pandyan wrote:in the US, it is called lobbying (for the higher ups)...other folks usually dont ask for money; but, cheating is rampant (mostly businesses trying to mislead/overpromise-under deliver etc).Kakkaji wrote: In the US, the chances of getting caught are quite high. And if you are caught, the trial, conviction and punishment happen relatively swiftly. So the risk/ benefit ratio is much higher than in India.
That's their idea of a free market!
Everybody and Everything is ON 50% Sale.
I ran some quick finds in the 658 page report. The word 'corruption' occurs only 4 times. The word 'bribe' appears 0 times.
Here is the link to the full report: http://india.gov.in/govt/paycommission.php
Check out Chapter 1.2 that talks about the philosophies and guidelines.
Here is the link to the full report: http://india.gov.in/govt/paycommission.php
Check out Chapter 1.2 that talks about the philosophies and guidelines.
Suppiah
The reason i have used the 2010-2015 time frame is cause most of the expansion in Govt. Bureaucracy ( at lower levels ) occured immediately after the Green Revolution and most of these posts were created during tht time ie 1960s and 1970s and things slowed down in 80s and 90s except in 90s major shift was towards education sector ( teacher hiring) . At present , barring few hundred posts every year in such non-required fields , most of govt. vacancies are in education , police and medical deptt.
On matter of contract-base govt. jobs , i have seen very less opposition at state level since CITU and other commie led organizations dont have tht much of a foot print in Haryana or Punjab . Interestingly , commie led Unions were never able to make their presence felt in high growth areas ( they tried but call it ego or hard headidness of my state's politicians , they were shown some gud times by HP )
Way i see the GoI policy towards such nuance is freeze on recruitment for 2-3 yrs of its tenure and opening a few vacancies in last year of its tenure ( political rewards ) thereby overall keeping the govt. jobs at lower level than b4 and abolishing the job when the employee retires.
On matter of including retirees under the new Pay Commission recomendations , it has to do with existing laws and more to Babu logs protecting their own ( all have to retire one day). Another has to do with a clause/law/advisory that says a Gazetted Officer must be able to maintain the std. of living well after retirement suitable to Officers not below ! ( if i am not wrong still most govt. employees who take loans against their PF have to give a declaration that such loan will not adversely effecvt their std. of living or downgrade it ).
Sixth pay commission has definitely taken some rite steps , more could have been done but still its a gud start nevertheless
JMTs
The reason i have used the 2010-2015 time frame is cause most of the expansion in Govt. Bureaucracy ( at lower levels ) occured immediately after the Green Revolution and most of these posts were created during tht time ie 1960s and 1970s and things slowed down in 80s and 90s except in 90s major shift was towards education sector ( teacher hiring) . At present , barring few hundred posts every year in such non-required fields , most of govt. vacancies are in education , police and medical deptt.
On matter of contract-base govt. jobs , i have seen very less opposition at state level since CITU and other commie led organizations dont have tht much of a foot print in Haryana or Punjab . Interestingly , commie led Unions were never able to make their presence felt in high growth areas ( they tried but call it ego or hard headidness of my state's politicians , they were shown some gud times by HP )
Way i see the GoI policy towards such nuance is freeze on recruitment for 2-3 yrs of its tenure and opening a few vacancies in last year of its tenure ( political rewards ) thereby overall keeping the govt. jobs at lower level than b4 and abolishing the job when the employee retires.
On matter of including retirees under the new Pay Commission recomendations , it has to do with existing laws and more to Babu logs protecting their own ( all have to retire one day). Another has to do with a clause/law/advisory that says a Gazetted Officer must be able to maintain the std. of living well after retirement suitable to Officers not below ! ( if i am not wrong still most govt. employees who take loans against their PF have to give a declaration that such loan will not adversely effecvt their std. of living or downgrade it ).
Sixth pay commission has definitely taken some rite steps , more could have been done but still its a gud start nevertheless
JMTs
The missed opportunites as per Bhanu Pratap. In fairness to the commission though, these things are to be decided at a higher political level and only then a commission can make it as part of the charter. We desperately need more capable and more skilled political masters.
[quote]It's not just the money
The Sixth Pay Commission may be a lost chance at reforming government delivery systems
Reform requires artfully using the benefits given to one constituency to neutralise vested interests that oppose reform elsewhere, leveraging largesse for broader structural change. For instance, the case for doing something for farmers is overwhelming. If credit relief is structured as a kind of cash transfer, it is entirely appropriate, and could even have been larger. But a unique fiscal opportunity designed to mobilise the goodwill of farmers could have been used to create space to restructure fertiliser subsidies. Not necessarily to slash them, but to ensure that a greater proportion goes directly to farmers than to supporting inefficient industry. A more politically imaginative party could have seized the initiative by increasing direct cash transfers to the poor and spending even more on health and education. But to finance this it could have brokered a deal on disinvestment or pension reforms and exposed the Left’s greater allegiance to small vested interests than the larger good. Reform is about taking a few risks and hard bargaining, particularly when you have a few resources to throw around.
In this sense, the Sixth Pay Commission is likely to remain another missed opportunity. It would be difficult to argue that government employees should not share the gains of growth and some hikes are necessary. Government often is astonishingly self-serving and inefficient, but a whole-scale delegitimisation of government service is neither here nor there. The question of the kinds of reform government needs is complex. But there is, arguably, no question more critical to India’s future growth prospects. But the conversation about this has to move beyond pedantic and minor changes in service rules; it has to embrace a conversation about the character of government and the kind of talent we want in it. And the context of a pay hike is the right time to do it.
If you were running any organisation the first question you would ask is about the quality of human resources. This question is seldom asked in government. For instance, district-level officials end up administering a hundred schemes. While all schemes have a statement of financial liability, few carry a human resource analysis. Recruitment has become a matter of mechanics, not of matching personnel to objectives. For instance, there is a proposal floating around to double the size of the foreign service; the demands placed on India certainly require this. But the IFS, like most areas of government, is terrible at mobilising the kind of talent it needs in the right places. Instead of more generalists, it probably needs more lawyers and domain experts. No government as immune to lateral and temporary entry into its ranks as ours is can mobilise the expertise it needs. And this will also require far more flexible payment structures.
There is no realistic assessment of where government actually needs more personnel. It is vastly deficient in some areas and over-staffed in others. Raag Darbari had a psychologically astute portrait of the two sources of government inefficiency. There is the conventional non-performance of employees. But in more cases the reason was subtler. The magnitude of the task was so overwhelming that most employees felt they would not be able to accomplish anything anyway. The evocative line, “itna kaam hai ki sab kaam thap pada haiâ€
[quote]It's not just the money
The Sixth Pay Commission may be a lost chance at reforming government delivery systems
Reform requires artfully using the benefits given to one constituency to neutralise vested interests that oppose reform elsewhere, leveraging largesse for broader structural change. For instance, the case for doing something for farmers is overwhelming. If credit relief is structured as a kind of cash transfer, it is entirely appropriate, and could even have been larger. But a unique fiscal opportunity designed to mobilise the goodwill of farmers could have been used to create space to restructure fertiliser subsidies. Not necessarily to slash them, but to ensure that a greater proportion goes directly to farmers than to supporting inefficient industry. A more politically imaginative party could have seized the initiative by increasing direct cash transfers to the poor and spending even more on health and education. But to finance this it could have brokered a deal on disinvestment or pension reforms and exposed the Left’s greater allegiance to small vested interests than the larger good. Reform is about taking a few risks and hard bargaining, particularly when you have a few resources to throw around.
In this sense, the Sixth Pay Commission is likely to remain another missed opportunity. It would be difficult to argue that government employees should not share the gains of growth and some hikes are necessary. Government often is astonishingly self-serving and inefficient, but a whole-scale delegitimisation of government service is neither here nor there. The question of the kinds of reform government needs is complex. But there is, arguably, no question more critical to India’s future growth prospects. But the conversation about this has to move beyond pedantic and minor changes in service rules; it has to embrace a conversation about the character of government and the kind of talent we want in it. And the context of a pay hike is the right time to do it.
If you were running any organisation the first question you would ask is about the quality of human resources. This question is seldom asked in government. For instance, district-level officials end up administering a hundred schemes. While all schemes have a statement of financial liability, few carry a human resource analysis. Recruitment has become a matter of mechanics, not of matching personnel to objectives. For instance, there is a proposal floating around to double the size of the foreign service; the demands placed on India certainly require this. But the IFS, like most areas of government, is terrible at mobilising the kind of talent it needs in the right places. Instead of more generalists, it probably needs more lawyers and domain experts. No government as immune to lateral and temporary entry into its ranks as ours is can mobilise the expertise it needs. And this will also require far more flexible payment structures.
There is no realistic assessment of where government actually needs more personnel. It is vastly deficient in some areas and over-staffed in others. Raag Darbari had a psychologically astute portrait of the two sources of government inefficiency. There is the conventional non-performance of employees. But in more cases the reason was subtler. The magnitude of the task was so overwhelming that most employees felt they would not be able to accomplish anything anyway. The evocative line, “itna kaam hai ki sab kaam thap pada haiâ€
Services chiefs to raise issue with Antony
Sandeep Dikshit
NEW DELHI: The chiefs of the three services will raise the issue of improving the Sixth Pay Commission recommendations during their routine meeting with Defence Minister A.K. Antony.
With discontent sweeping the ranks as well as officer cadre alike, the three services chiefs are under pressure to raise the issue not only with the Defence Minister but with the Sixth Pay Commission as well. For instance, soldiers are unhappy with the special allowance of just Rs.1,000 whereas junior officer who work shoulder-to-shoulder with them will get six times that amount.
While appreciating the positive aspects in the recommendations, the armed forces are concerned about the dwindling benefits to officers from the level of Colonel upwards. There is also considerable discontent among the lower ranks as they feel they are not being adequately compensated for the hardships in guarding the undemarcated borders with China and Pakistan and undertaking counter-insurgency operations in hostile terrain.
The armed forces top brass also feels that the switch over to the running pay band will open a can of worms as was the case with the Fourth Pay Commission leading to several anomalies some of which are still sub judice. Personnel below officer rank are also upset over the revision of the commutation value table.
Officers also feel that with the armed forces facing a shortage of about 12,000 personnel at the junior level, there is no recommendation to make the Short Service Commission more attractive.
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Raju
One big achievement of the Sixth Pay Commission is that it has finally wrested away the stranglehold that the IAS cabal and even politicians had over promotions and pay-scales of other non-IAS cadres.
Now both IAS and non-IAS cadre shall get revised pay-scales according to their seniority (as soon as they achieve particular seniority) irrespective of whether they get promoted or not. Earlier IAS cabal used to block promotions of other non-IAS cadre and limit opportunities for promotions for decades. This had created enormous disgruntlement and ill-will among non-IAS cadre.
Another factor was the IAS cadre got promoted on availability of positions irrespective of their seniority. But non-IAS cadre had to await till seniority was achieved till they got their due promotions while positions due to them used to remain vacant for years until this happened. Later commissions and committees would be set up to enquire this abomination and they used to be headed by officers belonging to IAS cadre or retd IAS officers.
Needless to say they always ruled in favor of their cadre.
Now both IAS and non-IAS cadre shall get revised pay-scales according to their seniority (as soon as they achieve particular seniority) irrespective of whether they get promoted or not. Earlier IAS cabal used to block promotions of other non-IAS cadre and limit opportunities for promotions for decades. This had created enormous disgruntlement and ill-will among non-IAS cadre.
Another factor was the IAS cadre got promoted on availability of positions irrespective of their seniority. But non-IAS cadre had to await till seniority was achieved till they got their due promotions while positions due to them used to remain vacant for years until this happened. Later commissions and committees would be set up to enquire this abomination and they used to be headed by officers belonging to IAS cadre or retd IAS officers.
Needless to say they always ruled in favor of their cadre.
Further on suggestions by Sixth Pay Commission for Senior Bureaucrats :
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/288940.html
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/288940.html
A draft report by ARC suggests that targets of each department be fixed and in the process, work expectation from each civil servant be spelt out in a written agreement with the departmental minister.
ARC is one of the most dreaded document of any govt. servant which is used more to carry out vendetta either political or personal in Govt. Circles and parameters such as money spent ( planned expenditure ) and manpower usage are totally ridiculous ideas to judge the performance since money targets are met usually within 24 hrs when money is shown issued by Deptt. Head and showed not used by distt. level officers ( wonder how deficit is kept under control !) to keep bookkeepers happy and program implementation also happy.Instead of the input-centric performance measure — where achievements are function of money spent and manpower deployed for a scheme or a project — the ARC wants a shift to assessment based on quantifiable output targets.
These covenants with promise to perform would be placed in the public domain to ensure that there is complete transparency in what each individual bureaucrat has agreed to achieve during a particular time period. Using these targets, a feedback on service delivery would be obtained from the beneficiaries to assess their effectiveness, proposes the ARC. And those who do not frequently come up to the expectations would be shown the door.
With the services rid of unwanted flab, the ARC has suggested a leadership cadre — Senior Executive Service (SES) — to be created where officers are selected from among other services such as police, customs and income tax as well as from the private sector. This united and cohesive group would be responsible for higher level policy advice, managerial and professional responsibilities, and would be hired on fixed-term contracts at market-competitive remuneration.
This selection of the “very best of society for the most challenging assignmentsâ€
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cbelwal
Still the IAS cadre enjoys priviliges that is perhaps unrivaled by any government service in the world. Not only are their promotions faster but they directly become chiefs of PSU's and other large Govt. dept. without going through the grind that others are subject to. Some states even have laws that prohibit legal action against IAS officers without permission from a secretary level officer, which as you might have guessed it is another IAS person.
With great responsibility should come a high salary but an even greater accountability. The latter seems be a dreaded work among IAS, and this pay commision confirms that.
With great responsibility should come a high salary but an even greater accountability. The latter seems be a dreaded work among IAS, and this pay commision confirms that.
Raju wrote:Now both IAS and non-IAS cadre shall get revised pay-scales according to their seniority (as soon as they achieve particular seniority) irrespective of whether they get promoted or not. Earlier IAS cabal used to block promotions of other non-IAS cadre and limit opportunities for promotions for decades. This had created enormous disgruntlement and ill-will among non-IAS cadre.
.
Good suggestion and very timely, since this is needed more than ever. IAS was based on the old paradigm with British Rule in mind. Now, what is needed are smart folks who can administer the government departments in competition with the world. There is a need to specialize and become experts. The commerce dept needs someone from the school of hard knocks i.e. real world business savvy skills. Likewise for defence we need someone who has strategic and tactical skills dealing with the defence sector. My suggestion is to continue with IAS but have specialization. For the top post (secretary) allow the recruitment to consider candidates from the external pool. This way, there is an incentive for the IAS to really specialize and compete for the top jobs. Finance ministry for example requires very smart people who can juggle the economics of the nation. When India is rising and becoming a leader among nations, the task of keeping the nation in the upper leagues of nations is no more for amateurs. Only pros can keep it ticking.Its about time IAS cadre is abolished. We do not need jacks of all trades anymore. We need specialists.
Same goes for politicians. A dufus can tank the nation really quickly.
High-powered panel to look into Pay Commission report
Fri, Apr 11 03:29 PM
The Centre will set up a high-level committee of secretaries for processing the Sixth Pay Commission's report for its employees.
Fri, Apr 11 03:29 PM
The Centre will set up a high-level committee of secretaries for processing the Sixth Pay Commission's report for its employees.
[quote]
Jawans set to get a hike beyond Pay panel advice
Pranab Dhal Samanta
Posted online: Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 0040 hrs IST
NEW DELHI, APRIL 30
In the face of mounting pressure from the Armed Forces, the Defence Ministry has asked the Committee of Secretaries looking into the Pay Commission recommendations to double the Military Service Pay (MSP) for soldiers from Rs 1000 to Rs 2000. The MSP will be merged with basic salary and form the basis on which other allowances will be calculated.
With Defence Minister A K Antony putting his weight behind the move, sources said, the suggestion is likely to be accepted as informal consultations have already happened among relevant officials. The issue will be elaborately discussed and firmed up when the three service chiefs meet Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrashekhar, who heads the CoS, over lunch on May 5.
While the Armed Forces were keen to treble the amount for certain categories among personnel below officer rank (PBOR), sources said, the hike in MSP along with other allowances will make up for a “healthyâ€
Jawans set to get a hike beyond Pay panel advice
Pranab Dhal Samanta
Posted online: Thursday, May 01, 2008 at 0040 hrs IST
NEW DELHI, APRIL 30
In the face of mounting pressure from the Armed Forces, the Defence Ministry has asked the Committee of Secretaries looking into the Pay Commission recommendations to double the Military Service Pay (MSP) for soldiers from Rs 1000 to Rs 2000. The MSP will be merged with basic salary and form the basis on which other allowances will be calculated.
With Defence Minister A K Antony putting his weight behind the move, sources said, the suggestion is likely to be accepted as informal consultations have already happened among relevant officials. The issue will be elaborately discussed and firmed up when the three service chiefs meet Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrashekhar, who heads the CoS, over lunch on May 5.
While the Armed Forces were keen to treble the amount for certain categories among personnel below officer rank (PBOR), sources said, the hike in MSP along with other allowances will make up for a “healthyâ€
the 2nd Pay revision committee report for psu employees (ongc,ntpc,bpcl,air india etc) has been released by justice Jagannath Rao and is available for download from http://dpe.nic.in click 'report of 2nd PRC' for further details.
What I dont understand is, why is the government insisting on ignoring the facts?
The key to understand the disguntlement of the armed forces cadre is seeing that it isnt how much one is paid at a certain pay band.
Its whether one will reach that pay band at all!
If an IAS officer becomes a JSEC at 14-16 years of service (according to the new rules), then so should an army officer! Else, there will be disgruntlement. 100% of civil servants are now to attain this grade.
If the time in grade to reach this payband has reduced to 14 years for one service, so should it for all others. The policy of maintaining old rank equivalencies from the 1930s is fallacious, IMO.
If 14 years is what it takes to become a joint secretary, well and good. But then, army officers should also achieve the 52000pm pay band in 14 years of service. Is a Joint secretary really equivalent to a major general with 33 years of service any more? No! The JSEC posts have been diluted to an extent where they are no longer equitable.
Thus, shouldnt we revise the equivalency to be the same as that of a Lt. Col? Give Lt. Cols JSEC postings at staff assignment equivalency!
That will solve the whole problem.
If the pay commission goes into operation at this level of equivalency, its a recipe for disaster.
The key to understand the disguntlement of the armed forces cadre is seeing that it isnt how much one is paid at a certain pay band.
Its whether one will reach that pay band at all!
If an IAS officer becomes a JSEC at 14-16 years of service (according to the new rules), then so should an army officer! Else, there will be disgruntlement. 100% of civil servants are now to attain this grade.
If the time in grade to reach this payband has reduced to 14 years for one service, so should it for all others. The policy of maintaining old rank equivalencies from the 1930s is fallacious, IMO.
If 14 years is what it takes to become a joint secretary, well and good. But then, army officers should also achieve the 52000pm pay band in 14 years of service. Is a Joint secretary really equivalent to a major general with 33 years of service any more? No! The JSEC posts have been diluted to an extent where they are no longer equitable.
Thus, shouldnt we revise the equivalency to be the same as that of a Lt. Col? Give Lt. Cols JSEC postings at staff assignment equivalency!
That will solve the whole problem.
If the pay commission goes into operation at this level of equivalency, its a recipe for disaster.
-
Abhibhushan
- BRFite
- Posts: 210
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005 20:56
- Location: Chennai
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
It seems that the forum has not noticed the serious discontent that is spreading through the armed forces and is being expressed through ex service men regarding the recommendations of the sixth pay commission. BRFitesmight like to read a write-up on the subject by an ex chief of the naval staff.
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
Check out the following link
http://staffcorner.com/talk/viewforum.p ... 764298a875
and click the question
"will u vote for upa/congress"
enjoy
http://staffcorner.com/talk/viewforum.p ... 764298a875
and click the question
"will u vote for upa/congress"
enjoy
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... el/348825/
Brigadiers, will now be in a higher band of pay, but not equivalent to IGP's, presumably?
Brigadiers, Major Generals, and Lieutenant Generals will now all be in the same pay band. A somewhat problematic situation, possibly?
Comments?
So, IPS officers will go straight from SP to IGP, in 16 years of service.
Windfall for bureaucrats as PM goes beyond Pay Panel
New Delhi, August 14: A wage hike higher than those recommended by the Sixth Pay Commission, marginal increase in annual increments and the payment of arrears in cash are some of the sweeteners incorporated in the proposal for Thursday's Cabinet meeting after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s intervention.
The new pay package for the 55 lakh Central government employees, to be announced on August 15, proposes a 20 per cent raise over the pay bands suggested by the Commission. The panel in May suggested a gross 40 per cent hike, which means an effective 25 per cent after taxes. “The net jump in pay would be upwards of 30 per cent with the additional increase more for lower grade staff to narrow their difference with the (pay of) senior officials,” said sources.
This raise takes into account the Commission’s miscalculation of the dearness allowance - absorbed in the new basic pay—as 74 per cent whereas it should have been 83 per cent, they said. The proposed annual increment in the basic pay would also be a tad higher than the 2.5 per cent suggested by the Commission.
The Cabinet proposal talks of a uniform 3 per cent raise every year. The current norm is a Rs 500-increase in the basic pay annually within the grade scale.
But what would be music to the bureaucrats’ ears is that the PM has shot down Finance Minister P Chidambaram’s suggestion that the new wage be effective from January 2007 instead of January 2006 because of the heavy run on this year’s Budget. Chidambaram had also wanted that the past dues be parked in the General Provident Fund to be provided as pension after retirement of the employees so that this year’s outgo from the Budget would be limited to Rs 12,500 crore.
But the PM would have none of that. He has ensured that the new pay would be effective from January 2006, as recommended by the Commission, with 40 per cent of the arrears paid in the current fiscal and the remaining 60 per cent next year.
The actual pay-out would come in November after the monsoon session of Parliament in September passes the Finance Ministry’s supplementary Demand For Grant to fund the wage bill, said sources.
What has also been shot down, though by the Committee of Secretaries, is the inclusion of heads of other services in the rank of Cabinet Secretary. The CS will remain primus inter pares, the first among equals, and that position would not be granted to the head of Intelligence Bureau, the three service chiefs or the Chairman Railway Board—as had been demanded.
There would also be no scrapping of Group D personnel (peons in ministries and coolies in Indian Railways). The Commission had suggested that these posts be subsumed in Group C of clerks, fresh induction be stopped and jobs be outsourced.
As for the armed forces, the good news is that military service pay for persons below the officer rank (POBR) would be Rs 2,000 per month. The forces had demanded Rs 3,000 as against Rs 1,000 introduced by the commission.
There would also be a significant improvement in the salaries of Brigadiers as the government has agreed to put them in Pay Band 4 (Rs 39,200-67,000) as against the suggested pay band 3 (Rs 15,600 - 39,100).
For the Indian Police Service and Indian Forest Service, relief would come in the form of abolition of the Deputy Inspector General scale. There would also be no discrimination between Group B and Group A service officers in the form of a differential basic pay at the time of joining, as suggested by the Commission. They would both start at the same scale, as is prevalent now, said sources.
BUREAUCRACY’S BIG HIKE
A 20 % raise over the pay bands suggested by the Commission
Uniform 3% raise in basic pay every year. The norm is a Rs 500-increase annually within grade scale
New wages to be effective from January 2006
No Cabinet Secretary rank for Intelligence Bureau chief, the three Service chiefs or the Chairman, Railway Board
Group D personnel to stay (peons in ministries and porters in Railways)
Military service pay for persons below the officer rank (POBR) would be Rs 2,000 per month
Significant hike in salaries of Brigadiers: they move to Pay Band 4 (Rs 39,200-67,000) from the suggested Pay Band 3 (Rs 15,600-39,100)
DIG-scale abolished in IPS and Indian Forest Service
Brigadiers, will now be in a higher band of pay, but not equivalent to IGP's, presumably?
Brigadiers, Major Generals, and Lieutenant Generals will now all be in the same pay band. A somewhat problematic situation, possibly?
Comments?
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
the people who quit their jobs would be ruing their haste.Defence forces set to get pay hike
New Delhi: The government has accepted the demands of the defence forces, but it's a bit less than the 15 per cent extra they demanded.
So, if in April the promised hike for a colonel was 15 thousand rupees now, it's going to be about 19 thousand rupees.
Even the central government employees - about 5.4 million of them - will also benefit.
In all it will cost the taxpayer 22 thousand crore rupees, about 4 thousand crores more.
And the hike will be effective from January 2006 which means government employees will get a large chunk of arrears incidentally just ahead of elections.
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
I dont understand all this chat about the CS being at a payscale higher than service chiefs and CRB... their pay scale has always been equitable as far as I know, from Gen. Manekshaw onwards. Before that, the chief got a higher salary than the CS. The pay commission report had also reccomended that they all have the same scales... with the exception of the IB chief (who has never been in that scale, and his inclusion would be for no reason other than to keep the IPS happy).
I will add, that since I posted the link above, fresher information has filtered in. Colonels will also be in Pay Band 4, together with joint secretaries, etc.
I will add, that since I posted the link above, fresher information has filtered in. Colonels will also be in Pay Band 4, together with joint secretaries, etc.
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
Tilak wrote:Government rejects ex-soldiers’ ‘one rank one pension’ plea
February 18th, 2009 - 11:24 pm ICT by IANS - Send to a friend:
New Delhi, Feb 18 (IANS) Unmoved by India’s ex-soldiers’ highly emotive plea of for “one rank one pension”, which even saw some of them returning their medals, the government has finally nixed the demand, pointing to the logistical and financial problems it would create.
“The demand for one-rank one-pension stands already examined in detail and was not found acceptable due to administrative, financial and legal reasons,” Minister of State for Defence M.M. Pallam Raju said in a written reply in the Rajya Sabha Wednesday.
“However, the government is also examining whether certain improvements can be made in the pension being given to the old pensioners,” Raju added.
He pointed out that pension benefits of personnel below officer rank (PBOR), particularly of the three ranks of sepoy, naik and havildar, were significantly increased Jan 1, 2006, by increasing weightage from 5 years to 10, 8 and 6 years respectively.
This apart the pension of pre-Jan 1, 1996, retirees is being computed with reference to the maximum of the payscale introduced on that date, Raju added.
“In consultation with the Ministry of Finance, the benefits thus accrued to PBORs have been allowed to be retained while revisiting their pension,” Raju said.
On Feb 8, more than 300 retired soldiers of varying ranks marched to Rashtrapati Bhavan and returned medals won in combat and for distinguished service as they sought equal pension for each rank.
The veterans were among the thousands who had gathered earlier in the day at the Jantar Mantar observatory in the heart of the capital for a protest that some said marked a black day for the Indian armed forces.
President Pratibha Patil, the supreme commander of the armed forces, did not personally receive the medals, which were collected by her officials.
The soldiers, who also included three-star generals, marched under the banner of the Indian Ex-servicemen’s Movement (IEM).
The main demand of the protesters was that irrespective of the date on which a soldier retires, he or she should get the same pension.
IEM officials explained that a sepoy who retired before 1996 gets a monthly pension of Rs.3,670, but one who retired between 1996 and December 2005 gets Rs.4,680. A sepoy who retired after January 2006 gets Rs.8,700.
Effectively then, an army havildar, who retired earlier, gets pension money that is less than what a sepoy retiring after January 2006 gets though the havildar enjoys a higher rank. The mismatch applies to all ranks.
“Most IAS (Indian Administrative Service) officers, judges, governors, MPs and even the president enjoy this right (of one rank one pension),” pointed out one retired soldier.
On Feb 9, a retired Indian Navy officer filed an application under the Right to Information (RTI) Act, asking the government on what basis was their demand rejected.
“Through RTI Act, I want to get the details as to how the government reached the decision,” Commodore (retired) Lokesh K. Batra said.
Ex-servicemen return 7,500 gallantry medals over pension spat
March 14th, 2009 - 7:08 pm ICT by IANS -
Disgusting to say the least.New Delhi, March 14 (IANS) In pursuit of their demand for ‘one rank one pension’, retired soldiers of varying ranks here Saturday returned 7,500 medals won in combat and for distinguished service.
Thousands of veterans gathered earlier in the day at the Jantar Mantar observatory in the heart of the national capital for the protest.
“This is for the third time that we collected the medals from across the country and returned them to the president. A 10-member team including two widows went to the President House and returned the medals,” commodore (retd) Lokesh Batra said.
On the first occasion, the ex-soldiers had returned 2,500 medals to a representative of the president. On the second occasion, over 3,000 medals were returned.
The veterans under the aegis of the Indian Ex-servicemen Movement are demanding that irrespective of the date on which the soldier retires, he or she should get the same pension, which rises every time there is a wage revision.
The demand has now arisen because of the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission, which did not address the ‘one rank one pension’ issue. The government has rejected the demand on administrative and financial grounds.
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
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Advani to hear grievances of retired soldiers
19 Mar 2009, 1144 hrs IST, IANS
Advani to hear grievances of retired soldiers
19 Mar 2009, 1144 hrs IST, IANS
NEW DELHI: National Democratic Alliance (NDA) prime ministerial candidate LK Advani, who has assured retired soldiers that he will fulfill their "one rank one pension" demand, will meet the former defence personnel here later Thursday to hear their grievances.
"Advani will interact with ex-servicemen on their demand for 'one rank one pension' this afternoon," a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) official said.
In pursuit of their demand for "one rank one pension", the retired soldiers of varying ranks have returned to the president more than 10,000 medals won in combat and for distinguished service.
For the first time Monday, Advani openly backed the ex-servicemen and promised that his party would implement the "one rank one pension" policy if voted to power in the upcoming Lok Sabha polls.
"I was pained to see that many ex-servicemen recently gave up their bravery medals in protest against the non-fulfillment of this demand. My party has considered this matter in its totality," Advani had said.
Former soldiers under the aegis of the Indian Ex-servicemen Movement are demanding that irrespective of the date on which the soldier retires he or she should get the same pension, which rises every time there is a wage revision.
The demand has now arisen because of the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission, which did not address the "one rank one pension" issue. The government has rejected the demand on administrative and financial grounds.
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Rahul Mehta
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Re: Sixth Pay Commission
When LKA was HomeMin and DyPM, he did nothing to raise the salaries of soldiers. He had all the powers to fix this issue. Now when the problem is blown out of roof, LKA is showing crocodile sympathies.
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6th pay commission should be canceled. We should raise salaries of soldiers. But no raise to IPS-IAS till bribery reduces.
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6th pay commission should be canceled. We should raise salaries of soldiers. But no raise to IPS-IAS till bribery reduces.
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Re: Sixth Pay Commission
Time will tell, if Mr. Advani is shedding crocodile tears. If he doesn't stand by his promise.. My vote will be for you.. unless you decide to switch over to Kangress, in the next..Rahul Mehta wrote:When LKA was HomeMin and DyPM, he did nothing to raise the salaries of soldiers. He had all the powers to fix this issue. Now when the problem is blown out of roof, LKA is showing crocodile sympathies.
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Re: Sixth Pay Commission
Govt Sets up Seventh Pay Commission
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Days before the Election Commission announces dates for Assembly elections in five states, the Central government Wednesday announced the setting up of the Seventh Pay Commission, which promises to lead to a sharp increase in the salaries of nearly 70 lakh Central government employees and pensioners.
Form separate Pay Commission for armed forces: SC to govt
The report of the commission is, however, not expected until nearly two years after the Lok Sabha elections that are due before May 2014.
Column: Government is a growth multiplier
"The Prime Minister has approved the constitution of the Seventh Central Pay Commission," said a statement from Finance Minister P Chidambaram.
"The average time taken by a pay commission to submit its recommendations has been about two years. Accordingly, allowing about two years time (from now is necessary) for the commission to submit its report by January 2016," the ministry said in the release.
The Sixth Pay Commission was set up in 2006, and gave its report after 18 months in March 2008.
The award of the sixth commission cost the government an additional Rs 26,035 crore in the first year, as per its own estimate. It was one of the main reasons why the Centre missed its fiscal deficit target for 2008-09. For most employees, salaries went up by 60-80 per cent. The World Bank had described the award of the earlier Fifth Pay Commission as the "single largest adverse shock" to Indian public finances.
The release said that the names of the chairperson and members, and the terms of reference of the seventh pay panel, would be decided soon.
Sources said the chairperson was likely to be a member of the judiciary — in accordance with the practice of the last pay panel, which was headed by Justice B N Srikrishna. Finance Secretary R S Gujral, who is due to retire later this year, could be appointed member secretary, the sources said.
The Twelfth Finance Commission had advised the government not to set up a pay panel every 10 years, an advice the Thirteenth Finance Commission reversed. It said that the pay panel awards should be set up in time ensure their reports were implemented prospectively without having to pay out arrears, which dent government finances.
In FY 14, the Centre will pay its civilian employees Rs 1,24,657 crore in wages and allowances. Including the pension bill of Rs 70,726 crore, the total is about 12 per cent of total government expenditure for the year. State governments too adopt the pay commission's award for their employees. Several states are, however, yet to implement the award of the Sixth Pay Commission, saying they do not have the money.
Re: Sixth Pay Commission
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Published: February 4, 2014 14:41 IST | Updated: February 5, 2014 01:31 IST
On poll-eve, UPA rolls out pay panel
Puja Mehra
With the Lok Sabha elections fast approaching, the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government, on Tuesday, constituted the Seventh Central Pay Commission.
The commission’s recommendations are expected to benefit 35 lakh Central government employees.
The commission, to be headed by the retired Supreme Court judge Ashok Kumar Mathur, will submit its report in 19 months and its recommendations will be effective from January 2016.
The commission’s full-time member will be Petroleum and Natural Gas Secretary Vivek Rae and part-time member will be Rathin Roy, Director, National Institute of Public Finance and Policy.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had in September 2013 approved the Pay Commission. The award of the Sixth Pay Commission, set up by the first UPA government, had resulted in an additional outgo of Rs. 12,561 crore in 2008-09.
The Eleventh Finance Commission had categorically said that pay commissions need not be set up routinely as their awards had a cascading effect on the finances of State governments.
The Economic Survey for 2013-14 says the Centre’s expenditure as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) on pay and allowances for its employees rose from 0.9 per cent in 2007-08 to 1.4 per cent in 2009-10 after the Sixth Pay Commission’s recommendations were implemented. The data available show that the Budget estimate for 2011-12 is 1.1 per cent of the GDP.
Similarly, the Centre’s expenditure on pensions went up from 0.5 per cent of the GDP in 2007-08 to 0.9 per cent in 2009-10 and 0.6 per cent in 2011-12.