Indian Autos Thread

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Indian Autos Thread

Postby Nayak » 29 Mar 2008 18:11


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Postby Nayak » 29 Mar 2008 18:12

Found this baby which shows the family tree of which auto company owns which car -

Image

Link to the original source.

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Postby abhishek » 29 Mar 2008 20:00

What a mess

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Postby rachel » 29 Mar 2008 20:14

It is, isnt it?

With their kereitsu and protectionsism, I find Japanese auto industry to be especially messy. They have way too many auto manufacturers, many of whom are being cross-subsidized and kept alive by other lines of bizness. Look for a major shakeout among that pack.

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Postby SaiK » 31 Mar 2008 20:09

Still I see a clear picture of TATA's! :) .. btw, you guys are have to visit Nukkad thread, and bring those auto junkies here.
===

bart wrote:
SaiK wrote:which is the best deisel 4x4 in desh? perhaps we can take this to auto thread.


Safari 2.2 Dicor has die-hard fans including moi :)

If you are talking about MUV rather than pure performance SUVs Toyota Innova is pretty good and so is the new Sumo Grande. Both of these can be had for well under 10 L while Safari is a bit more expensive.

Dont know much about super-duper imported SUVs, but you have various options starting from Ford Endeavour at around 15 L to Nissan X-Trail/Honda CR-V at 20 L to Toyota Land Cruisers at 45 L to BMW X5 and Porsche SUV.

my fav in maasa is RAV4, but now its getting too old (moi). my sensors have picked up FJ-cruiser.

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Postby Prasad » 31 Mar 2008 20:33

Following on the Cars discussion on the Nukkad thread -

While the Swift diesel version is pretty decent, I haven't seen any references to the Chevy Spark. The design doesn't seem to be very attractive from the outside, esp those round brake lights at the rear. But the ride is very good. Its also gotta be the most silent small sized car I've ridden. My Santro and i10 make far more noise than the Spark.

Plus, if you're the kinda person who stacks a lot of things inside the car, such as cds, loads of paraphernelia, then the Spark gives you a lot of space for that. Shelves under the dashboard on the driver and the other side, plus pretty decent holders between the front seats. And the rear is more spacious than the Santro and to some extent the i10. Also at around 4 lacs, its cheaper than the i10, Swift and Getz.

For all its pluses though, I've got to say that Hyundai service has been excellent so far. My friend who has the Spark says that TVS's service has improved greatly since the time he got his previous car from them.

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Postby rachel » 31 Mar 2008 20:45

I think Suzuki, Hyundai, and GM Daewoo are potentially three brands that could really be winners in the global auto race. And the best part is, two of the three are closely tied to India.

I wish the third, GM Daewoo, made stronger efforts in India. Hyundai will soon produce 600,000 cars per year in India, Suzuki will hit 1 million/year. Against that, GM Daewoo will struggle to hit 100,000 !!

I want GM Daewoo to design all their future cars in India and make it their global hub for small cars, just as Suzuki and Hyundai have done!

One thing I like about Hyundai and Suzuki is that they are more into India than China. I hate the China-focus of GM, they need to break that and shift to India!

USA wants a strategic erlationship with India to deter China??? ...well, they should start by pressuring their largest auto-maker!

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Postby bala » 31 Mar 2008 22:50

Some Chinese are averse to buying Japanese origin products and hence they gladly buy US products with many driving GM products like Cadillac, Buick and Chevy. GM invested heavily in China to capitalize on such sentiments. Their old lines are flogged for additional sales. Many GM/Delphi execs, as part of the re-shuffle in the US, are shifted to China to manage the GM plants.

GM’s future is making cars that compete in quality and “greennessâ€

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Postby SaiK » 31 Mar 2008 23:22

What about the diesel-hybrid 4x4 by Mahindra? Has it been established or announced for sales anytime?

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Postby John Snow » 31 Mar 2008 23:46

Sonata is buick regal

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Postby pradeepe » 01 Apr 2008 00:19

Looking for a vehicle to buy. I liked the swift earlier, but SX4 does look nice now.

I wish the SX4 had a diesel version.

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Postby SaiK » 01 Apr 2008 00:52

John Snow wrote:Sonata is buick regal


wow. lot of rappers in desh, then.

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Postby rachel » 01 Apr 2008 01:59

[quote="bala"]Some Chinese are averse to buying Japanese origin products and hence they gladly buy US products with many driving GM products like Cadillac, Buick and Chevy. GM invested heavily in China to capitalize on such sentiments. Their old lines are flogged for additional sales. Many GM/Delphi execs, as part of the re-shuffle in the US, are shifted to China to manage the GM plants.

GM’s future is making cars that compete in quality and “greennessâ€

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Postby Rishirishi » 01 Apr 2008 02:42

Thx Bala, that is a good explanation. Many of the cars sold in China are pretty large and not so fuel efficeint, which is weird considering China is still a poor nation.


In China you need a permit to drive a car. The local governments like to control the numbers, to avoid traffic jams etc. Aslo Chinease government is not keen to let the average Chinease drive cars. Cars are reserved for the upper middle class.

I was in Guangzhou, and spoke to a few Chinease friends there. They all had to rely on public transport (which is quite good), but it can take a long time. So I asked why they were not purchasing motorbikes. Apperantly the local government was not issuing any more permits, hence that was not possible.

Sad for them, but the upside is that the traffic in Guanzhou is fairly civilised and flow nicely.
Good for the privilaged :lol:

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Postby wuhan » 01 Apr 2008 02:53

more info about China auto.

China auto sales hit record 8.79 mln in 2007
http://china-to-world.blogspot.com/2008 ... 9-mln.html


China's auto production, sales grow a bit slower in 2007
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- ... 793772.htm


Honda says Feb China car sales up 12 pct
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssCons ... 3220080320

Top car sales in China in February 08

1. VW Santana - 20,700
2. Buick Excelle -15,900
3. Toyota Camry - 12,200
4. Toyota Corolla - 12,000
5. Chery QQ - 11,600
6. Hyundai Elantra - 11,100
7. Tianjin Xia Li - 10,200
8. BYD F3 - 9,400
9. VW Passat - 9,200
10. Chevrolet Lova - 9,100

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Postby abhishek » 01 Apr 2008 04:44

wuhan,
does that include the numbers in Buddhist Republic of Tibet too? If so then you should exclude them.... :D

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Postby shyam » 01 Apr 2008 11:27

^^^
BRT gets chinese made tanks :evil:

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Postby Vipul » 01 Apr 2008 19:29

Maharashtra continues to lure auto majors.

Maharashtra’s thirst for big-ticket investments in the automobile sector is not about to be satiated.

After signing three major MoUs with vehicle makers Tata Motors, Mahindra & Mahindra and Fiat India Automobiles last week involving ramping up production capacities, the Maharashtra Government is now close to sealing another major investment in the automobile sector.

Speaking to Business Line on his last day at office in Mantralaya, Mr. V.K. Jairath, Mahrashtra’s Industries Secretary, dropped clear indications of another MoU with an automobile major in the pipeline. Refusing to disclose the name of the vehicle maker, he said “You will come to hear of it in the next 20 days.â€

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Postby bhavin » 02 Apr 2008 00:36

In China it takes upto 6 months of driving classes before driver license could be obtained.

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Postby Himanshu » 02 Apr 2008 10:13

Let's desist from bringing in China in the Indian Autos thread.. btw.. I spotted two test vehicles yesterday on my way to the office..
looked like TATA's new SUV .. spy pics of which were posted a while back when they were undergoing cold weather testing in sweden..

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Postby SureshP » 02 Apr 2008 17:21

King of the anvil shows India how to hammer the competition

MARCUS GEE

April 2, 2008

PUNE, INDIA -- Forging is one of the oldest of the industrial arts - and, in the past, one of the dirtiest. The blacksmith with his hammer and anvil did the earliest kind of forging, labouring in the heat and coal dust of his shop. Later, forging moved to factories where swarms of workers toiled amid the clamour of the machines that pressed, hammered or rolled bits of metal into usable shapes.

That was the way the plant floor looked for years at Bharat Forge, the Indian company that has climbed up the global ranks to become what its boss says is the world's biggest forging concern. As recently as the mid-1980s, it had 2,600 blue-collar workers at its main factory in Pune, India. Today, nine out of 10 of the 4,000 workers are white-collar staff with college degrees. Most of them work in a huge, immaculate plant with polished floors. Instead of pushing lengths of steel into the maw of growling machines, they stand at computer screens monitoring the work of the big white machines, imported from Germany and Japan, that forge crankshafts, axle beams and connecting rods for car makers such as Toyota, BMW and Audi. Instead of dirty coveralls, they wear crisp blue shirts marked with the company name.

This, says company chairman Baba Kalyani, is India's future. India, he says, can't compete with China as a cheap-labour mass manufacturer. China is years ahead, with many times more foreign investment and much better infrastructure. But in the more technical, automated industrial processes, "I don't think anyone in the world can beat us."

Bharat Forge is a case study of how India can compete. Twenty years ago, it was a typical Indian company, labouring under the onerous regime of government regulation called the "licence raj." Mr. Kalyani had to apply to New Delhi to buy a new machine from overseas, then wait up to three years to get it. "Politicians said that with our cheap labour we could be competitive in the world," he said in a recent interview in his Pune headquarters. "Nothing could be further from the truth. We were the most uncompetitive country with that cheap labour."


As soon as India started to emerge from its economic isolation with the start of the reform era in 1991, Bharat Forge decided it needed a new business model. Instead of relying on cheap, semi-skilled labour as in the past, it would stress high technology, high capital investment and highly skilled labour. Offering a generous buyout program, it gradually shed 2,000 blue-collar workers and replaced them with more educated newcomers.

Today, the company produces 20 times what it did before the changes, with a work force just 25 per cent bigger. It is the largest exporter of auto components from India. It has operations in 10 locations in six countries from Sweden to China. It has expanded so rapidly abroad that 40 per cent of its work force is non-Indian and 70 per cent of its revenue comes from outside India. Its revenue has grown to $1.5-billion from $110-million in just six years, making Mr. Kalyani one of India's richest men with a fortune of $2.1-billion.

"If somebody told me you'd be a one and a half billion dollar company and be the largest in the world, I wouldn't have believed it myself," said Mr. Kalyani, 58, an imposing man with a bearing that recalls an Indian Army colonel. "Six years ago we were just a little Indian company."


He has even bigger plans for the future, both at home and abroad. He has set up a new centre for advanced manufacturing in the state of Maharashtra. He is building a new factory to make forgings for the booming Indian aerospace industry. He is looking at expanding into railways, construction equipment and power plants.

He freely admits that India has problems. Its inadequate roads, railways, airports and seaports make it hard for manufacturers to export their products on time. Its primary education system is abysmal and its higher education a mess.

Even so, the country is brimming with skilled, ambitious people. Four major Indian cities alone produce more engineering graduates every year than the United States. The booming information technology industry, with its two million workers, is producing a huge new cadre of Indians with skills in management and global marketing that emerging manufacturers can tap. "Which country in the world has the kind of talent India has in numbers?" he asks rhetorically. And in India, "the talent is getting smarter."

As a result, he says, "Indian manufacturing has become sophisticated, competitive, and high tech - and all this has happened in the last 15 years."

Forging is an act of transformation, turning dull metal into something new and valuable. Smart companies like Mr. Kalyani's are doing the same for India.

Globe & Mail Toronto

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Postby A Bakshi » 03 Apr 2008 23:55

rachel wrote:One thing I like about Hyundai and Suzuki is that they are more into India than China. I hate the China-focus of GM, they need to break that and shift to India!

USA wants a strategic erlationship with India to deter China??? ...well, they should start by pressuring their largest auto-maker!

That's very clearly just an issue of market focus. American car companies simply don't make small, efficient cars, and despite recent growth in the segment, it's just not what the vast majority of consumers in the US buy.

So for markets like India, GM and Ford are entirely dependent on their divisions in other continents that make small cars (GM Daewoo and Ford Europe). Notice that Chrysler has no such arrangement and thus is not in India.

Chinese buyers, on the other hand, drive the same kinds of cars that Americans do, so GM can go full-force into China with the latest cars that they themselves develop. That's their core business.

Think of the new Chevy Malibu mid-size family sedan, the new car that GM is most proud of, which is selling well in the US and will be exported in some form to China without too much of an issue. In India, it'd have be marketed as a large luxury model, so GM wouldn't have any sales volume, so they'd have to jack up the price. Same story as other entry-level cars like the Accord/Camry/Sonata, which have to be sold as expensive, mid-luxury cars in order to turn a profit in India.

GM can't focus on India nearly as much as China because no real GM cars can be sold there- they rely on rebadging non-American cars (from GM Daewoo, Subaru, etc.) as Chevys.

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Postby svinayak » 04 Apr 2008 02:31

rachel wrote:One thing I like about Hyundai and Suzuki is that they are more into India than China. I hate the China-focus of GM, they need to break that and shift to India!

USA wants a strategic erlationship with India to deter China??? ...well, they should start by pressuring their largest auto-maker!


Why is that Korean auto companies came in 1994 . Is there a geo-political reasons.

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Postby bart » 04 Apr 2008 03:18

SureshP wrote:King of the anvil shows India how to hammer the competition

Instead of pushing lengths of steel into the maw of growling machines, they stand at computer screens monitoring the work of the
big white machines, imported from Germany and Japan, that forge crankshafts, axle beams and connecting rods for car makers such as Toyota, BMW and Audi.
[/b]


Next step would be to develop a sufficiently large and sophisticated machine tool and process technology industy in India so that we need not depend on the Germans and Japanese, and we can cut costs further.

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Postby Paul » 04 Apr 2008 03:29

Acharya wrote:
rachel wrote:One thing I like about Hyundai and Suzuki is that they are more into India than China. I hate the China-focus of GM, they need to break that and shift to India!

USA wants a strategic erlationship with India to deter China??? ...well, they should start by pressuring their largest auto-maker!


Why is that Korean auto companies came in 1994 . Is there a geo-political reasons.


I have thought of that too. Koreans are showing signs of displaying out of the box thinking for quite some time. Their foreign policy is also more independent than...say Japan, which is unkil's other poodle.

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Postby bala » 04 Apr 2008 03:38

The Koreans, besides the motivation of being in India, adopted a flexible policy of manufacture. They brought in all their part suppliers along with them. The Japanese for example wanted to source parts from Japan but GOI would slap a tariff on the import thus driving up the costs of manufacture in India. With the Koreans they transfered the parts manufacture to India at the same time the car plant came up. Manufacture was 100% indigenous from day one and costs were kept low since labor costs were much cheaper than say Korea. Win-Win. Koreans were able to complete locally and at the same time export the cars to other countries (Europe). They reaped the profits. Eventually they started R&D in India. All in all a very good model for conducting business.

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Postby vsudhir » 04 Apr 2008 04:06

These Korean auto majors.... whats their org and mgmt structure like in India?

About the Japs, I know, the top mgmt echelons even in the local country division are reserved for japani nagriks onlee.

Do the koreans follow similar policies? Who's their India head - indian or expat? How much of their top mgmt team here is local?

Just wondering onlee.

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Postby pradeepe » 04 Apr 2008 04:52

If Samsung is any Indication. Expect the same mindset as the Japanese.
I think the Japanese auto operations in the US would be an exception, but thats just to prevent the US from blowing too much steam in their direction.

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Postby svinayak » 04 Apr 2008 05:05

Paul wrote:
Acharya wrote:

Why is that Korean auto companies came in 1994 . Is there a geo-political reasons.


I have thought of that too. Koreans are showing signs of displaying out of the box thinking for quite some time. Their foreign policy is also more independent than...say Japan, which is unkil's other poodle.


Anything with global evangelical order setting base in India thru Korea.

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Fortune CNN blog post

Postby rachel » 04 Apr 2008 18:35

http://ridingtheelephant.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/

March 26, 2008, 9:22 am
Tata buys into 40 years of trouble

Ratan Tata, who runs the Tata Group, one of India’s two biggest conglomerates, is buying into a history of trouble with his $2.3 billion cash deal, announced today, to acquire the Jaguar and Land-Rover companies from Ford (F). Transfer of ownership to Tata Motors is due to be completed by the end of June, and the question is whether Tata can then break a cycle of decline.

It’s been 40 years since the British government, in a bid to rebuild the country’s automobile industry, cobbled together ailing car brands such as Jaguar, Rover, Austin, Morris and Riley into a giant called British Leyland. BL, as it became known, was a failure, mainly because of endemic labor problems, uninspired products and poor quality. Since 1968, there have been many rescue attempts, but only rare short bursts of success. Several of the once proud names are long forgotten and none is British-owned; the iconic MG brand was bought three years ago by China’s Nanjing Automobile to make sports cars in China and the U.K., and the Morris Mini cult car is with BMW.

So could Tata succeed where others have failed? Market and industry analysts have their doubts, fearing the companies do not fit and that Tata’s optimism about growth could be hit by worsening economic problems in the United States and elsewhere. Tata Motors shares lost 4.4% on the Mumbai stock market today as brokers awaited the announcement.

But there is some reason for optimism. Ratan Tata isn’t expected to treat Jaguar and Land Rover like a traditional takeover: He says he’s not planning to overhaul senior management, close factories in Britain, or cut workers. He said today: “We have enormous respect for the two brands and will endeavour to preserve and build on their heritage and competitiveness, keeping their identities intact. We aim to support their growth, while holding true to our principles of allowing the management and employees to bring their experience and expertise to bear on the growth of the business.â€

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Fortune CNN blog post

Postby rachel » 04 Apr 2008 18:35

http://ridingtheelephant.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/

March 26, 2008, 9:22 am
Tata buys into 40 years of trouble

Ratan Tata, who runs the Tata Group, one of India’s two biggest conglomerates, is buying into a history of trouble with his $2.3 billion cash deal, announced today, to acquire the Jaguar and Land-Rover companies from Ford (F). Transfer of ownership to Tata Motors is due to be completed by the end of June, and the question is whether Tata can then break a cycle of decline.

It’s been 40 years since the British government, in a bid to rebuild the country’s automobile industry, cobbled together ailing car brands such as Jaguar, Rover, Austin, Morris and Riley into a giant called British Leyland. BL, as it became known, was a failure, mainly because of endemic labor problems, uninspired products and poor quality. Since 1968, there have been many rescue attempts, but only rare short bursts of success. Several of the once proud names are long forgotten and none is British-owned; the iconic MG brand was bought three years ago by China’s Nanjing Automobile to make sports cars in China and the U.K., and the Morris Mini cult car is with BMW.

So could Tata succeed where others have failed? Market and industry analysts have their doubts, fearing the companies do not fit and that Tata’s optimism about growth could be hit by worsening economic problems in the United States and elsewhere. Tata Motors shares lost 4.4% on the Mumbai stock market today as brokers awaited the announcement.

But there is some reason for optimism. Ratan Tata isn’t expected to treat Jaguar and Land Rover like a traditional takeover: He says he’s not planning to overhaul senior management, close factories in Britain, or cut workers. He said today: “We have enormous respect for the two brands and will endeavour to preserve and build on their heritage and competitiveness, keeping their identities intact. We aim to support their growth, while holding true to our principles of allowing the management and employees to bring their experience and expertise to bear on the growth of the business.â€

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Postby rachel » 04 Apr 2008 18:36

Sorry please admins remove duplicate post...I must have hit the button twice..

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Postby Vipul » 04 Apr 2008 19:55


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some brits high on tata/JLR

Postby rachel » 04 Apr 2008 20:20

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1158567

LONDON: Tata's takeover of Jaguar and Land Rover will be a key turning point in the car industry's history, automobile experts say.

Coventry-based Nick Seale of the Warwick Manufacturing Group believes that the takeover will also be of global and historic significance.

Seale said: "When the history of the motor industry is written, they will look back on this event as one of the key turning points.

"The Indian purchase of two of the strongest brands in the world car industry is really significant because the industry, 20 years from now will be very different, and if I was a betting man I will say India will be a major player."

He told the Coventry Evening Telegraph: "The US companies have been world leaders for 50 years now but they are experiencing difficulties. The Japanese have risen and out of the Japanese/US power struggle we've suddenly got the emerging world of India and China becoming a real force.

"An Indian company buying two of the world's largest brands is really significant and it will be a turning point. Although there's going to be no visible change in the short term, it's a really significant move.

"I've been doing some work with a motorcycle company in India and India is absolutely fascinating from an industrialisation point of view. Indian companies are going to be increasingly powerful in the world."

According to Seale, Ford had "sold off a really good business", and added that it was not Tata's style to come in heavy handed and make sweeping changes which is excellent.

Jaguar-Land Rover could also benefit from Tata's business portfolio which is spread across an array of sectors from IT services to tea production and steel with more than 289,000 people in its workforce in 80 countries, Seale added.

"One of the strengths of Tata is they have such a broad industry portfolio which is protective in terms of world changes in industry. You are not tied in to the motor industry. It's really an exciting time and is fascinating to see all these things going on. Tata are in it for a very long time," Seale said.

Seale's optimism was echoed this week by Prime Minister Gordon Brown during his visit to Coventry.

Brown said: "The important thing is we continue to safeguard jobs in the future and what the Tata company has said is they will invest in Jaguar Land Rover and still maintain apprenticeships in the area and will invest in new technologies of the future.

"And so for the 16,000 people who depend on Jaguar Land Rover the future is, as Tata says, one we can safeguard by everybody working together to make this a great success."

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Postby rachel » 04 Apr 2008 20:30

The unions etc seem pretty positive about Tata and JLR, which reminds me of something..

During Mittal takeover of Arcelor, some Arcelor leaders promoted an alternate Russian steelmaker as a better choice; I believe Dolle was racist and spoke glowingly of Severstal as a 'European solution'....

BUT .... a lot of the experts preferred Mittal and spoke darkly about Russian mafia, lack of controls and transparency, and suggested Mittal was a better choice.

I monitored the Indian and Russian press and blogosphere at the time, and you wanna know something funny? Indians and Russians wer BOTH SAYING THE SAME THING: Indian were denouncing racism against India (thanks to Dolle's remarks), Russians OTOH were pointing to comments about Russian mafia and saying that Russia was unfairly targeted as a backwards corruption-ridden Mafia nation. Some pointed to a Western 'plot' to prevent Russia from rising and becoming a threat.

Isnt it amusing that both Russians and Indians considered themselves to be the victims of stereotypes and racism?

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Postby sampat » 06 Apr 2008 16:54

Maruti Suzuki to launch 'world car' from India by end-2008

"The new model will be launched by end-2008," he said. "To begin with, we have plans to export 100,000 units of the new model annually to Europe and the rest of the world," Nakanishi said in an interview.
.............

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Postby Himanshu » 08 Apr 2008 10:33

That commercial is crazy.. :roll:

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Postby SaiK » 08 Apr 2008 17:42

fuel injections in bike.. cooledcool at last for desi roads. how much it costs? last i heard was tvs apache.. i guess, tvs will lose out to fuel injection tech.. they must be losing sleep.

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Postby Naidu » 08 Apr 2008 21:00

Acharya wrote:Why is that Korean auto companies came in 1994 . Is there a geo-political reasons.


If there is one nation that hates the Japanese more than the Chinese, it is the Korean nation. The Chinese might set aside their hatred to do bizness, but not so the Koreans. They will do business with Japan only if they absolutely have to; then too they'll hold their noses.

If you see street scenes from S. Korea you will rarely see a foreign car; almost never a Japanese car.

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Postby rachel » 08 Apr 2008 21:28

Naidu wrote:
Acharya wrote:Why is that Korean auto companies came in 1994 . Is there a geo-political reasons.


If there is one nation that hates the Japanese more than the Chinese, it is the Korean nation. The Chinese might set aside their hatred to do bizness, but not so the Koreans. They will do business with Japan only if they absolutely have to; then too they'll hold their noses.

If you see street scenes from S. Korea you will rarely see a foreign car; almost never a Japanese car.


My personal belief is that Koreans, Japs, and Orientals in general are much more patriotic than us. This level of hatred that the Koreans have is the result of just a half century or so of occupation.

In contrast, Hindus were occupied for 1000 years, with massacres, genocide, and death toll far in xs of what was done to Korea. Yet we dont have the pride to 'hold our noses' or manifest that level of hatred towards our oppressors.

Very sad state of affairs.


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