Indian Autos Thread

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 16 Jul 2011 09:33

Gurus - in order to better target the diesel subsidies cant all diesel cars be charged an amount upfront which will cover for the subsidies incurred over its lifetime. Let us say a car's life is 100000 KM, assuming it does 20Kmpl then it would consume 5000 litres of diesel, and if 20Rs is the subsidy on diesel, let us add a surcharge equal to 5000 X 20 = 100000 Rs extra. This way the misuse of subsidies by richer people can be prevented.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Jul 2011 15:23

Marten wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:plus all states have increased life time tax from about 8% to 10%.
Except Karnataka, which thinks Bangalore must be made car-free and therefore charges 18% (including the cess).

And yet has soo many cars in Bangalore. When going to Bangalore I noticed quite a few cars are now TN registered and they are not catching people like they used to...hmmm

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jul 2011 18:44

afaik blue colour has always been added to kerosene in india...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Jul 2011 18:47

blue is added to subsidized kerosene. unsubsidized is white in colour.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Jul 2011 10:27

End of road for Bajaj's small car?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 18 Jul 2011 00:02

I have always wondered what is it for Bajaj to gain from developing the car for Renault-Nissan apart from platitude's about "Frugal Engineering skills"?
If Bajaj was going to develop the car all on its own(which is the most challenging part) then its not an SSI unit to need Renault for marketing help onlee.
It has invested much money and time on developing the ULC paltform (for a range of vehicles) and i wouldnt be surprised if ends up as a sole Bajaj Venture.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 19 Jul 2011 23:50

Bajaj zeroes in on Mundra for 4th plant.

Bajaj Auto is planning to set up its fourth and largest plant near the Mundra port in Gujarat. The five million unit per annum plant will initially require an investment of over Rs 1,000 crore. Bajaj plans to export at least 60 per cent production from there.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 22 Jul 2011 07:36

Tata Nano for ASEAN:

A government official in Jakarta, Gita Wirjawan, chairman of the Investment Coordinating Board (BKPM), confirmed the automaker was moving forward with its plan to build a low-cost car in Southeast Asia’s largest economy. “The feasibility study has been commenced by them,” he said. Tata Motors planned annual production of 50,000 Nanos starting in 2013 at a plant on the outskirts of Jakarta. Aside from Indonesia, Tata Motors would sell the cars in Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines, the sources said.

The Nano, launched in India in 2009 to much fanfare for its stripped-down $2,500 price tag, would likely cost about Rp 45 million ($5,200) in Indonesia. Debasis Ray, head of corporate communication at Tata Motors, said that the Tata Nano’s design meant that it would not add significantly to the congestion on Jakarta’s overloaded roads. “Given its small size and maneuverability, it is, rather, the solution for busy roads,” he said. In the last two months the low-cost car has been marketed in such countries as Sri Lanka and Nepal.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 22 Jul 2011 14:45

Is there a point of FTA with ASEAN if Tata has to go and build a plant in Indonesia? Their plant in Sanand is near to ports in Kutch, and the production capacity of the plant is 250,000-350,000. Bajaj already exports its bikes to Indonesia et al, so I doubt import duty on automobiles is an issue here, also considering FTA which I am sure would have covered this major export of India to ASEAN.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 28 Jul 2011 05:54

Ford is reported to sign MoU with Gujarat government over setting up new plant in Sanand today. This plant is reportedly coming up next to Tata motors plant in 500 acres land.

Should get some more news by end of the day. BTW planning to visit Sanand sometime in next few months.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 28 Jul 2011 08:37

Ford to increase its plant capacity in India

Ford plans to build two new factories in Sanand, Gujarat, by 2014 that will employ 5,000 and have the capacity to assemble 240,000 cars and build 270,000 engines.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 28 Jul 2011 19:26

Ford India officials answer why they choose Gujarat

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2011 20:06

sikular intellectuals will draw a parallel to the alleged admiration of henry ford for hitler and them landing in our local hitler's state

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Jul 2011 21:07

TATA and Ford is in Gujarat.Bajaj has already announced its plans to start a new plant in Mundra for two wheelers and its ULC.With Maruti and Peugeot also considering to start Ops in the state, Gujarat will emerge as the 4th Auto hotspot after Maharashtra,TN and NCR.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 29 Jul 2011 05:14

That chap from Ford says it currently takes 10 days to transport car from TN to Delhi. So cutting this into half to 5 days once plant is setup won't be exaggerated assumption. People have started analysing pros and cons of industrialisation of states compared to how many locals gets employment. Way to go...

I wonder with all these new car plants coming up across India..these companies also need those big long car carrying trucks. Dunno if there is special term used for those trucks. Tranport companies business must be flourishing with high demand for such vehicles.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 02 Aug 2011 05:28

Ford recalling 1.22 million older pickup trucks in North America. The need to replace corroding straps exposed to de-icing chemicals of the fuel tanks.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Aug 2011 07:36

india car sales down 24% YOY per TOI today with maruti and tata being particularly hard hit.
toyota has got a jump due to liva "cmon liva cmon liva party hamari hai"
VW has got a strong jump due to vento
ford and honda have remained steady at low levels.
mahindra has gone up.
hyundai has taken 15% hit

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Aug 2011 19:42

New launches in the coming six weeks (Nissan Sunny, Force Motors Force 1 SUV, Mahindra W201 SUV, BMW X3, Audi A6) and also some relaunches after making cosmetic changes onlee.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 02 Aug 2011 20:28

Gaurav_S wrote:.these companies also need those big long car carrying trucks. Dunno if there is special term used for those trucks. Tranport companies business must be flourishing with high demand for such vehicles.

IIRC, TATA tractor trailers used for car carrying were LPS 3015 and 3516. They were called 'car carriers' in layman terms.

Car deliveries have come a long way. It used to be a horribly managed affair. Sumos used to be driven from factory to dealership. Drivers would tow cars together to cheat on petrol money. They would also transport people/stuff if they could. No guarantee on delivery times. Hafta and hassles and delays for each vehicle at checkposts and border crossings.

Dealers had to spend a lot of money to make sure it was good before delivery to customer and take the flake if something was wrong.

VikB · Post by **VikB** » 03 Aug 2011 12:56

^^Small nitpick.

Tatas and other OEMs dont make the trailers. They make the truck portion called 'horse'.

The trailers are mostly made by smaller private players. Though now many OEMs have started their own trailer-building units yet they are not much

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 03 Aug 2011 13:13

Bajaj Cars to be launched very soon.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Aug 2011 15:48

I noticed yday that instead of the usual rented BMTC clunkers (infy/wipro) or leased pvt party buses/minibuses of various stripes (everyone else), Intel has instead leased JNURM tata marcopolo low floor city buses for its employee shuttles. they are all orange and must be doing regular city bus service outside of the morning and evening Intel runs.

I didnt stick around long enough to find out if all employees get a confirmed seat or some must stand for the journey, as these buses have significant standing room. would imagine all get a confirmed seating...in which case they are very roomy with enormous internal volume and huge glass windows.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Aug 2011 15:41

Sridhar K wrote:Wig,
Singha has covered a few points. Pros and Cons with the same segment i.e. Manza (same segment)
No Diesel in Etios yet (will have long waiting period once launched). Fiesta is a segment higher in cost terms.

Pros

1) Drivers car
2) Good mileage, good pickup and handling
3) Maruti's after sales service
4) Top end (ZDI) comes with alloys and leather upholstery, cheaper than Manza Aura +

Cons
1) Stiff ride (harder suspension) and Manza has better ride
2) Looks (perspective)
3) Horrible boot lid
4) Manza Aura is cheaper over VDI (more features)
5) Bad rear leg room and seat ergonomics.
6) No blue tooth connectivity
7) Wait time

If you want to get more confused visit the team bhp thread on the Dzire and Manza

So what is the latest review of Swift Dzire ZDI, hain jee? Any better option in diesel ~8 lakhs segment? Thanks.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Aug 2011 19:54

Jaguar Land Rover is now Indian. Any info on recent Range Rover reliability? Supercharger degrade engine life?

These cars definitely have cachet and really sell themselves to a certain subculture.

Suhas H · Post by **Suhas H** » 06 Aug 2011 14:12

JLR is Indian owned but the manufacturing and R&D is still done in England. Here's this years JD Power ranking from the US. Jaguar seems to have done well. They are also planning on releasing number of new vehicles and also targeting the BMW 3 series, Audi A4 and Merc C class buyers with models in that segment, this was few months ago not sure if they have developed them yet.

http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/ ... ID=2011029

I like the new Land Rover Evoque, it looks nice and also very good off road capability, it was tested on Top Gear recently and nothing bad was said about it.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 06 Aug 2011 22:18

Tata Nano: Singur to Sanand.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 07 Aug 2011 23:40

pandyan wrote: What is the perception of the product in desh? Anybody brfites own a nano?

The perception seems to be positive from what i have seen but no one seems to buy it.

But this is in the urban areas though. The key would be in the semi-urban, rural areas where the Alto seems to be doing really well (almost 25K sold this month!). My BIL tells me Maruti's marketing of Alto is fantastic. TATA seems to trumpet the fact that it's cheap and may be that's not gone down well. And it's mostly the higher end model of Nano that's getting sold i think. Even Indica sales are dropping. I still think the nano will do well if the sales pick up. It's really tiny, must be nice to drive around in the city

devaraj_d · Post by **devaraj_d** » 08 Aug 2011 00:57

VikB wrote:^^Small nitpick.

Tatas and other OEMs dont make the trailers. They make the truck portion called 'horse'.

The trailers are mostly made by smaller private players. Though now many OEMs have started their own trailer-building units yet they are not much

One more nitpick

The 'horse' is usually called a tractor.

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 08 Aug 2011 06:18

Pandyan, BW has a detailed story on issues with Nano sales and what tata is doing about it.

http://www.businessworld.in/businesswor ... oblem.html

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Aug 2011 07:15

nano suffers from a major image problem, it is perceived as a cheap vehicle that is not quite a car. to many people it is a negative status symbol, akin to buying an auto.
it has very little exposure on TV and even there it is projected as a small town poor man's car. that's the wrong way to do it, those who are not able to afford a car already know it, there's no need to reinforce it by saying to them 'here, buy this poor man's car'. you give people something that is aspirational, something that says 'you have arrived'.

I am surprised tata never used the original idea that gave birth to the nano, replacing the family on scooter. that would have been a smart ad.
another way to take away the negativity associated with nano is to rope in a celebrity, that would subconsciously signal to potential buyers that buying a nano is not detrimental to prestige.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 08 Aug 2011 07:46

They did recently run an ad on the 'replace the family scooter' thread.

Abdul and Ayesha sits in the nano in rain, and Ayesha sings a rain related hindi song. Abdul looks at the two wheeler riders covered in raincoats and says something like "I remember the days you couldn't sing" or something like that.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 08 Aug 2011 14:29

I think the Tatas went wrong in assuming that price at which they were positioning the Nano constituted a logical incremental extra to the cost of motorcycle. This is perhaps valid at a superficial level where the price differential between say Bullet and Nano was just a Rs 100 away in EMIs. But if you look at where the big numbers are coming from in the motorcycle segment it is in the sub-50 to at best Rs 60,000. Now, at that price the extra that a scooter owner or a motor cycle owner has to cough up to upgrade to a Nano is so huge that it is pretty much out of question.
It is abit like saying that the Mercedes C Class is positioned just that wee bit higher than Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord. But that doesn't mean for the vast majority of Alto or indica or Santro owners who constitute the the majority of car owning population Mercedes C Class is a logical upgrade.
For the two-wheeler owner or the prospective owner, nano pricing is not a seamless one.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 08 Aug 2011 14:40

^^
Also more than the upfront costs, the running costs of a car is more likely to put off a two wheeler owner. Especially with the current petrol prices.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 08 Aug 2011 16:06

This is aspirational enough.

Nano Europa would do well in India I think, but again, Nano has to get out of that low price no features image. If i had to own a Nano, I had three things in mind - better engine (at least an Alto size), a good music system and air conditioning!

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 08 Aug 2011 18:51

Given the weight and size of this - if they are able to integrate it with a hybrid system...it should be a very interesting product for the kmpl conscious customers in India and the environment conscious cust's in developed markets

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 09 Aug 2011 10:46

Hindustan Motors launches VEER LCV

Hindustan Motors Ltd has launched the VEER, a 0.8-tonne (800 kg) small commercial vehicle (SCV) in Kolkata. This is the first step in the company's plans to introduce more vehicles in the current financial year. The company's chairman has also announced a slew of new vehicles will be launched by the end of this financial year.

Two decades ago, my (then small) company had a freight vehicle created by cutting an Amby in half and adding a cargo hold in the rear. It was fondly called "Amba-Mobile", in homage to the Tatamobile LCV.

That old hag is still around, lugging stuff between the various buildings here. HM just took two decades to formalize the idea!!

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 09 Aug 2011 16:10

^^ hideous. the plasticky grill, the confused looking headlamps, the cargo bed with the lower portion held together by brackets ...all are things that a mechanic could put together in his garage. Its just appaling that HM has come up with something like this and actually put out pictures and a press release!! Atleast clean the tires and put some covers on the steel rims. HM nevers fails the meet my ever lowering expectations from them.
The article says that they have made changes to the drivetrain and the suspension to suit luggage hauling without telling what those changes are. No mention of teh engine either. DDM at its best.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 09 Aug 2011 17:18

If priced right, that thing will sell like a mofo in parts of Europe ... nostalgia value etc... It should be marketed as a "return to values" item. Maybe there's a market in the US as well...

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 09 Aug 2011 17:36

JE Menon wrote:If priced right, that thing will sell like a mofo in parts of Europe ... nostalgia value etc... It should be marketed as a "return to values" item. Maybe there's a market in the US as well...

What values? 50 hp engine (probably) to haul 800 kgs. In india it will be loaded to atleast 1200 kgs. the only return that will happen is keep returning to garage.
the vintage/novelty market is tiny and they soon tire of it preferring reliability and the VFM offered at comparable prices.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 09 Aug 2011 18:31

What is the market for this?

The urban customer who wants to move this load - he is already covered by the Tata ACE and similar products. The 'ranch owner types who wants car comforts but also hauling capacity and also wants to drive something quaint' is a non-existent market in India.