Indian Autos Thread

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 08 Dec 2012 21:29

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... epage=true

The shattered front half of the Maruti Suzuki Swift, in which five persons died after a collision with a stationary sand lorry.

Image

one could imagine various types of cars, and the type of damage and death relationship can be easily figured out. but, indian life is anyway cheap for indics.. this can't be erased.. and only genuine heart will bleed for ever.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 09 Dec 2012 10:01

the current swift ad encourages aggressive driving and features a vehicle with racing stripes.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 09 Dec 2012 15:34

schowdhuri wrote: If you are talking about the highway, Nano is surely not meant for that.


Have you driven one on the highway?

My bong neighbor went from Chennai to Kolkota and back with family of 5 people in his nano.

I have driven a friends nano, in and around Erode - Salem highway.

Nano is adequate for highway.

A bigger vehicle with better crashworthiness - makes you drive faster and hit oncoming vehicles with risky driving - and almost all vehicles are not crashworthy at those impact speeds (your speed + oncoming speed).

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2012 21:49

No theory here can be proven as the data set is very specific to a particular areas of safety.

So, instead of blanket stmts it would be ideal if there is a genuine requirement to nano.

Leave the cost aside while you do this.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby member_20292 » 09 Dec 2012 22:33

SaiK wrote:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... epage=true

The shattered front half of the Maruti Suzuki Swift, in which five persons died after a collision with a stationary sand lorry.

Image

one could imagine various types of cars, and the type of damage and death relationship can be easily figured out. but, indian life is anyway cheap for indics.. this can't be erased.. and only genuine heart will bleed for ever.



Kindly wear seatbelt even if in the REAR SEAT folks. this is what would have been prevented.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 09 Dec 2012 23:40

^ I think the above pic is from yesterday's accident at neelangarai - a few kms from my home.

you'll still have whiplash and fatal neck injury at speeds these guy go. no airbags for rear seat. People do 120 plus on ECR.

5 guys including an SI dead. At 2 AM, they ploughed into the stationary truck. When the car goes under the truck, you are going to die - seat belt or no seat belt.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 10 Dec 2012 03:45

Don't they have speed beakers? And chennai is famous for that.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Abhijeet » 10 Dec 2012 11:58

People leave zero margin for error when driving on the highways. They simply drive as fast as their car can go without any thought to what happens if something unexpected occurs -- another car or an animal moving into their path, a pedestrian crossing the road, debris on the road etc. Even people with no formal driving training should develop a sense of such dangers just from experience, but commercial drivers especially seem to willfully never think of such things. It's a mystery to me why this is.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 10 Dec 2012 18:04

this today, also 2 kms from home
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/four ... uck-303286
Four students standing on the footboard of a bus died in a freak accident at Perungudi, outside Chennai this morning.

According to police, the accident occurred when the city bus drove past a truck that was reversing.

The students on the footboard got caught between the truck and the bus. Three of them died on the spot and the fourth student succumbed on the way to the hospital.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gagan » 10 Dec 2012 18:18

How the TATA Nano is made


:twisted:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 11 Dec 2012 02:27


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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby pentaiah » 11 Dec 2012 04:15

In the video of Nano
It's Funac robots doing the welding and I think the transfer lines are from
Shuler Germany
Once upon a time Tatas used have their own SPM division
Don't know if they still have that
Wish HMT did the transfer line they too had SPM division in Hyderabad nice upon a time in India!!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby schowdhuri » 11 Dec 2012 07:36

Gus wrote:
schowdhuri wrote: If you are talking about the highway, Nano is surely not meant for that.


Have you driven one on the highway?

My bong neighbor went from Chennai to Kolkota and back with family of 5 people in his nano.

I have driven a friends nano, in and around Erode - Salem highway.

Nano is adequate for highway.

A bigger vehicle with better crashworthiness - makes you drive faster and hit oncoming vehicles with risky driving - and almost all vehicles are not crashworthy at those impact speeds (your speed + oncoming speed).


Not talking about the capability of the Nano, but that fact that it is high-risk using it on the highway, the way people drive on it (yes, many other vehicles like i10 etc are also high-risk).

The logic of don't make safer vehicles, because then you will drive more aggressively does not make sense. We have too many loonies on the road for comfort today.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby RamaY » 11 Dec 2012 08:03

Does Nano have power steering? I want to get one for my sister but my nephew says an auto is better than Nano.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 11 Dec 2012 08:06

I am not saying - don't make 'crashworthy' vehicles. I am saying - nano is fine for safe drivers. If you are a rash driver and feel unsafe in a nano - you are still bound to get into a nasty accident even if you are in a 'more crashworthy' vehicle than a nano.

It is the person behind the wheel that is the biggest factor in an accident. Defensive driving can keep you safe even if others are maniacs.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 11 Dec 2012 23:14

aah when it comes to eventuality, even the best drivers are killed by erratic lorry and public transport guys.

--

btw, this is an impressive car for desh.
http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 12 Dec 2012 00:31

No.. I don't join in the putting down club. What I am focused is on the areas of interest that bothers me and like me there are many. It is another form of escapism that counter such views, and begin a blame game. Not pointing at you Marten, but this finger-pointing to finger-scratching cycle needs some break.

I like your inputs on the other products, where you have shared your long trip experiences.. and such things adds quality, and not this self flagellation on our negative or constructive criticisms. If we have the needs, we can guide to what we want., but that does not mean we are putting down indic products.

For example, even tatas agree Mahindras give a hot run for the money with them by building compelling products.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby putnanja » 12 Dec 2012 10:07

RamaY wrote:Does Nano have power steering? I want to get one for my sister but my nephew says an auto is better than Nano.


No, Nano doesn't have power steering. However, they refreshed the model a few months back, and the steering is supposed to be much better compared to earlier models. My cousin has a Nano and he is pretty happy with it. For a family of four, it is pretty good. They can sit comfortably. There is lots of space inside. My cousin has travelled multiple times for trips around 150-250kms, and he says it is pretty comfortable. THe drawback is no proper dash(though the recently released special edition is supposed to have it), not much trunk space for luggage for 3-4 days travel etc.

Most of the negative comments are from people who either don't own one or haven't actually driven/sat in one. Plus the fact that it was touted as "cheapest car" makes some to not go for it for status reasons. Some would rather buy a used 800/alto than be seen in a Nano unfortunately.

A car is only as safe as the driver is. As multiple incidents have showed, having a tough built car won't prevent accidents if driven rashly.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2012 11:08

Putnanja-> Nano top model always had power steering the one called ZX. the CX to ZX difference was Power steering, A/C and Body colour Bumpers.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dilbu » 12 Dec 2012 12:13

Singha wrote:the current swift ad encourages aggressive driving and features a vehicle with racing stripes.

Someone told me just the other day to buy a Swift because it is 'racing variety' car. :shock: I said no thank you onlee saar pliss to alsoshow me the road where this race is supposed to take place. :roll:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rajesh_MR » 12 Dec 2012 12:17

Based on limited highway driving I have done. Its seems Swift drivers are petty fast on the road. Used to be case with Skoda drivers some 6 years ago

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 13 Dec 2012 12:39

Well, the name is Swift, na? Not Sloth!!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dilbu » 14 Dec 2012 12:52

Dileep wrote:Well, the name is Swift, na? Not Sloth!!

They should name the next version 'Swift-72' for those moojahids out there who conduct road jihad with it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Asit P » 15 Dec 2012 04:03

Any feedback on Hyundai Verna (Fluidic) Petrol version?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vina » 21 Dec 2012 11:02

pandyan wrote:Tata Nano got dinged because the engine sounds like a two wheeler/auto.

Well, an exact similar config engine (twin cylinder, similar balance shaft and and same engine sequence as the Nano's engine) , won the international engine of the year in 2011.

Yup , and it sounds similar to the Nano's as well. Check it out here and look at the hot car that comes with that engine and listen to the sound here (and tell me how does it sound).

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sridhar K » 21 Dec 2012 18:48

Aditya_V wrote:Putnanja-> Nano top model always had power steering the one called ZX. the CX to ZX difference was Power steering, A/C and Body colour Bumpers.


I think that is incorrect at least for India. There is no ZX version as LX is the top version. The dash issue is sorted out as the Nano limited edition comes with a dash and is available as an accessory on the lower versions.

Agree with Marten. Nano is far safer than many other cars. Oon Vista/Manza, having owned one, Manza/Vista's rear seats are way superior than most of the sedan including the ones in a couple of segments higher. The only issue with Vista/Manza is a softer rear suspension which makes rides a bit bumpy when driven a bit spiritedly on bad roads.

I have switched to a Swift from Manza and with it, it is incredibly difficult to drive sedately :(.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 21 Dec 2012 21:01

My observation - having spent quite a few years in auto industry - is that people have herd mentality. Majority do not do research and do critical/original thinking and decide for themselves.

They ask someone and go with prevailing opinion. Once a product fails in popular opinion and gets some negative talking point associated with it (mileage nahi detha hai, not good for city, no resale, parts pricey etc) - it going to be VERY HARD for a manufacturer to dispel it.

Most of the negative points associated with Nano do not have merit on their own.

Noise? Diesel engines have similar noise, like a truck. People buy them in droves with no care for noise.

For me, the biggest failure of Nano has been its association with 'cheap'. Car buyers have got this idea that buying a Nano would make them look 'cheap' more than being a 'car owner'.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vishvak » 21 Dec 2012 23:15

In fact a new car with comparatively few issues is great!

Tata should be looking at cities that are developing now - tier II - where people are coming out first time to buy cars, and splurge in general, and roads are built with good quality. Such as Ahmedabad.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Manish_Sharma » 22 Dec 2012 17:58

Friends need an advice, my brother-in-law went to check out TATA Vista yesterday and the showroom people after having shown him the car, made an offer of TATA Manza Saffire 90 engine with ABS, its on road price is 7 lakh 23 thousand for only 5 lakh , 90 thousands. They said its driven 152 kilometers for test drive and they opened the showroom only last April , got this car in May. But checking the VIN number the car was manufactured January 2012. He drove it around showroom and has come completely sold out by the quality. But worried if there can be something wrong, as the deal looks too good to be true.

Tomorrow they bring the car to his house for test drive again with family, he has asked my advice so I'm posting this query here , if it's a good deal?
Last edited by Manish_Sharma on 22 Dec 2012 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby sooraj » 22 Dec 2012 17:59


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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby krishnan » 22 Dec 2012 18:36

Manish_Sharma wrote:Friends need an advice, my brother-in-law went to check out TATA Vista yesterday and the showroom people after having shown him the car, made an offer of TATA Manza Saffire 90 engine with ABS, its on road price is 7 lakh 23 thousand for only 5 lakh , 90 thousands. They said its driven 152 kilometers for test drive and they opened the showroom only last April , got this car in May. But checking the VIN number the car was manufactured January 2012. He drove it around showroom and has come completely sold out by the quality. But worried if there can be something wrong, as the deal looks too good to be true.

Tomorrow they bring the car to his house for test drive again with family, he has asked my advice so I'm posting this query here , if it's a good deal?



http://www.cardekho.com/carmodels/Tata/Tata_Manza

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 23 Dec 2012 00:14

Always go by this - if its too good to be true, its probably not true.

Why would somebody give you a lac off - before even hard bargaining? Never trust a car salesman.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 23 Dec 2012 00:17

The car itself is not bad. There will be few plusses that appeal to some people and few minuses that annoy some other people. Overall 'refinement' will be less in tata, no matter how snazzy their ads these days are. But the major components are good.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rishirishi » 23 Dec 2012 04:05

Manish_Sharma wrote:Friends need an advice, my brother-in-law went to check out TATA Vista yesterday and the showroom people after having shown him the car, made an offer of TATA Manza Saffire 90 engine with ABS, its on road price is 7 lakh 23 thousand for only 5 lakh , 90 thousands. They said its driven 152 kilometers for test drive and they opened the showroom only last April , got this car in May. But checking the VIN number the car was manufactured January 2012. He drove it around showroom and has come completely sold out by the quality. But worried if there can be something wrong, as the deal looks too good to be true.

Tomorrow they bring the car to his house for test drive again with family, he has asked my advice so I'm posting this query here , if it's a good deal?



Here in the west such discounts are pretty normal. Basically there is a higher margin on the cars with a lot of equipment. Every year they want to have a new model out and sell the old car at a bargain price. Or it could be a simple sales trick, to drop the price. I think you should evaluate and compare the car against others that cost RS 590K. With the Indian conditions, I am sure you will be able to spot if the car has been driven more then the claimed 152 km.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rajesh_MR » 23 Dec 2012 18:35

When I test drove Indigo marina few years ago from 2 different dealers in Bangalore, both had ODO/Speedo meter disconnected. Can't say it with certainty but looked fishy

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 23 Dec 2012 20:18

When doing PDI - that was the first thing I used to check - does the odo work.

When i took delivery of new CBR, its odo was not working and we did not take delivery. The dealer GM had to call and personally assure there was no misuse.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 24 Dec 2012 03:19

Rajesh_MR wrote:When I test drove Indigo marina few years ago from 2 different dealers in Bangalore, both had ODO/Speedo meter disconnected. Can't say it with certainty but looked fishy

wow.. you should report it to concerned authorities no matter what action they take. this is fraudulent practice and illegal.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sridhar K » 25 Dec 2012 19:43

Manish_Sharma wrote:Friends need an advice, my brother-in-law went to check out TATA Vista yesterday and the showroom people after having shown him the car, made an offer of TATA Manza Saffire 90 engine with ABS, its on road price is 7 lakh 23 thousand for only 5 lakh , 90 thousands. They said its driven 152 kilometers for test drive and they opened the showroom only last April , got this car in May. But checking the VIN number the car was manufactured January 2012. He drove it around showroom and has come completely sold out by the quality. But worried if there can be something wrong, as the deal looks too good to be true.

Tomorrow they bring the car to his house for test drive again with family, he has asked my advice so I'm posting this query here , if it's a good deal?


Manza is a good car but Tata dealers are notorious for abusing customer vehicles as test vehicles (with odo disconnected). Chances of a lemon in Tata is very high and PDI is important. Considering it is one year old car, it is not worth it. Manza Diesel itself has average resale value and petrol would not find any takers and that too a Jan 2012 model.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 25 Dec 2012 22:41

It used to be much worse. Cars would actually be driven from factory. And drivers would tie one to another to steal diesel from towed car. Dealer would reset the ODO and sell it. Imagine the poor trusting customers plight.

Things are miles better now..and there's still room for improvement.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Manish_Sharma » 26 Dec 2012 00:05

Thank you friends, yes they were upto something, as we found out how they lied about 7 lac 23 thousand price. Hiding december scheme on Manza. Actual price is around 6 lac 55 thousand. We have refused and complained to tata about this.


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