Indian Autos Thread
Re: Indian Autos Thread
It should be regulated and controlled by gov institution that no automobile can leave the factory and still be tampered with, especially the measurement instruments. And such automobiles, should be listed out in the news media, and public made aware of the frauds. Put a black mark on TaTas or whoever does it.. that way, they know not where to phuck with public.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/autom ... ml?hp&_r=0
The Premier Padmini - An Obituary...
The Premier Padmini - An Obituary...
The Padmini has its roots in a 1952 license agreement that allowed Premier Automobiles of India to produce a version of the Italian Fiat 1100, or Millecento, said Maitreya Doshi, Premier’s managing director.
In socialist-leaning post-independence India, the auto industry was tightly controlled. “The government believed we were making a luxury product, and there was an attitude that it really should not be part of India’s growth story,” Mr. Doshi said. Changes to prices, production or to the car itself had to be cleared by the government, he added, and requests were routinely refused. Production was capped at 18,000 cars a year, he said, though demand was much higher and taxi sales were subsidized.
The government insisted that the car become indigenous. By 1973 Fiat was out, and the Millecento became the Premier President until a bureaucrat objected to the name, which he said denigrated a government office. From 1974 until production finally wound down in 2000, the car has been the Padmini, named for a 14th-century Rajput princess. To the company’s chagrin, many still call it a Fiat.
The remaining Padminis that patrol Mumbai’s roads today are essentially Fiat 1100Ds, circa 1963.
Until the early ’80s, only one type of car in each class was produced in India. There were the small, sporty cars made by Standard Motor Products, which were indigenous versions of a British Standard-Triumph, and the bulbous Hindustan Ambassador, a copy of a 1956 Morris Oxford III that is still favored by many government officials. The four-door Millecento was the car for those aspiring for the middle class. (An ad for a later model announced: “Go-getters! Achievers! Decision-makers! Your Car Is Waiting.)
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Funny for INC leaders and Babudom, Car was a luxury, they didnt restrict themselves or did not stop from taking foreign junkets to German autobahn's.
phew we needed 5 years of NR Rao and 6 years of NDA. otherwise I shudder ti think what India would be.
phew we needed 5 years of NR Rao and 6 years of NDA. otherwise I shudder ti think what India would be.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
The Auto Wars — Tamil Nadu vs Gujarat.
In June 2011, the Tamil Nadu government issued a press release saying PSA Peugeot Citroen would set up a car-making facility in the state. Within months, the French automaker denied ‘the news’; in early September, it announced setting up its plant elsewhere — in Sanand, Gujarat.
Said a top automobile executive of Tamil Nadu’s gaffe: “To us in the industry, it looked as if the Tamil Nadu government did this out of the tremendous pressure to drive home the point that it is the country’s automobile hub.”
It is a tag Tamil Nadu hasn’t lost yet. But the state would be in denial if it ignored the new challenger in the ring, one that is possessed with the ambition to become the country’s new Detroit.
CRYPTIC INVITE
When Ratan Tata, in October 2008, decided to relocate the Nano car project from Singur in West Bengal, following a prolonged anti-land acquisition agitation, he received a cryptic invitation via SMS from Chief Minister Narendra Modi: “Welcome to Gujarat.”
The invitation was accepted. Realising that the Tata project could be the magnet to woo other auto majors, Modi moved with astonishing speed, transferring land to the company in all of three days.
When Ford India, a Tamil Nadu resident since the mid-1990s, decided to set up its second plant in Sanand, there was palpable concern in the corridors of Fort St. George, the seat of the Tamil Nadu Government. By the time Peugeot made its announcement, Sanand had gone from being an obscure village near Ahmedabad, once ruled by the Vaghelas, to a fashionable word in the auto industry.
Enter, Maruti
It is another matter that Peugeot, which got 584 acres and announced an investment of Rs 4,000 crore, backed out because of economic slowdown in Europe. But the Gujarat story was not over. In 2012, the government allotted 700 acres to Maruti Suzuki, the country’s biggest automobile maker. Maruti plans to set up a plant with an initial capacity of 250,000 units, investing Rs 4,000 crore.
UNFAIR COMPARISON
Despite the auto rush, it is unfair to compare the two states in some respects. Tamil Nadu has had a long auto history — Austin cars were assembled here as early as 1948 by Ashok Motors, the predecessor of Ashok Leyland. In the 1990s, an auto renaissance spread in the State with the entry of Ford and Hyundai. Since then, it has welcomed big brands such as BMW, Renault-Nissan and Daimler Commercial Vehicles.
Right now, the gap between Sanand and Chennai is enormous. Chennai accounts for around 40 per cent of the country’s car production and about 60 per cent of automobile exports. As the accompanying chart shows, Chennai is far ahead of Sanand if you go by installed capacity of projects, completed and on the anvil.
AND NOT VERSUS
“From our point of view, we don’t see it as Tamil Nadu versus Gujarat but Tamil Nadu and Gujarat,” says Joginder Singh, President and Managing Director of Ford India. “We have excellent relationships with both governments. In Gujarat, since it is a new plant, we have the advantage of bringing in new technology.”
Kel Kearns, Ford’s Director of Manufacturing for the Sanand plant, is upbeat about the facility, which should be operational in a year or so and which is among the American automaker’s largest in Asia-Pacific. Why Sanand? “We wanted to buy government land to start with. This was the first sort of call we made about the sites that were available.”
Of course a clutch of other factors was responsible for the choice — including the cost of labour, good industrial relations, adequate power, road connectivity, and overall governmental support. But land and financial concessions are most talked about in discussions on Gujarat’s automobile foray.
ROW OVER SOPS
Sometimes, this has erupted in a controversy, as in 2009, when the Congress opposition accused the Modi government of doling out concessions of Rs 33,000 crore to Tata Motors over 20 years.
The drive from Ahmedabad to Sanand to the Ford facility, via the Tata Motors plant, provides a glimpse of the change in what was once a sleepy hinterland. Land prices have gone up and are likely to go up further thanks to perceptions that it will develop as an auto hub.
Ford’s Sanand plant is being commissioned at a time when Ford is on the fast track with its BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) strategy. To that extent, the plant will have a far bigger role to play than the Chennai unit. But Singh says both plants will be used for exports. “For our Chennai plant, we would like to have better connectivity with the port. We use the Ennore port for exports. In Gujarat, we will use Mundra, for which too we would like good connectivity so that we can move vehicles multi-modally.”
MANPOWER DEMAND
Once operational, the plant would need about 5,000 people with a range of skills. “We need the state government’s support for skill development and we have been assured that this is a strong area of focus for the government,” Singh says.
Skilled manpower and English knowledge are the traditional advantages Tamil Nadu has over other auto hubs such as Pune. This is coupled with a sound engineering base, thanks in some measure to the TVS group, which entered the components sector in the 1960s.
GUJARAT’s PR BLITZ
Also, in the PR blitz about Gujarat, Tamil Nadu’s attempt to woo the auto industry gets short shrift. M Raman, who was Director of Tamil Nadu’s Guidance Bureau and involved with wooing Ford (and Hyundai as well), says the American automaker was given the concessions it wanted as well as the land the state had readily available at Maraimalai Nagar, in Chennai’s southern reaches.
He recalls that Ford considered “some 72 points” and many different places before settling on Chennai because of the advantages it offered and the government’s willingness to go that extra mile to support the project.
Even so, the Tata Motors plant at Sanand is a reminder of the incredible speed at which the Nano project made its journey from Singur. It is here that Gujarat signalled that it could be a viable automotive destination. The government pulled out all stops so operations could kick off in less than 18 months from the time the Tatas dropped Singur. There is no doubt that it is the Nano project that spurred others to take a serious look at the State.
Multiplier Effect
M. Sahu, Gujarat’s Principal Secretary, Industries and Mines Department, dwells on the reasons for the special auto focus. “Backward integration is one of the highest in this business. This means if one mother plant comes in, it will bring hundreds of ancillary units. The automobile industry has the highest multiplier effect,” he says.
Gujarat has not faced any land acquisition problems because, as Sahu explains, the government believes farmers are partners in progress. “They get good money for land which is not fertile. There is no forcible acquisition.” He then reveals a “diversion in strategy” where a shift is happening towards a policy of land aggregation from (land) acquisition. Another 2,000 hectares are, incidentally, being acquired by the government in Sanand.
RAIL CONNECTIVITY
The Gujarat government is also preparing a rail network that will involve setting up sidings to the mother plant and the logistics park. “For the railway siding, we are forming a special purpose vehicle with DMIC (Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor) and the Gujarat Industrial Corridor Corporation as partners. We will rope in industry too,” Sahu says.
Chief Minister Narendra Modi has declared that by 2020, Gujarat should account for 50 per cent of expansion in the automobile sector. This is the kind of ambition that will pose a challenge to Tamil Nadu and threaten its auto hub position. For the moment, though, the State is sitting pretty with a string of big auto brands and a robust supplier base.
Yet, Tamil Nadu has issues it must deal with. CEOs complain about the infrastructure in power, ports and roads. Ford’s Singh concedes rail connectivity to the port is an issue. “We continue to discuss that with the government and hope things will happen soon,” he says.
TN’s POWER WOES
Says Harish Lakshman, non-executive Director of the Rane group, a component manufacturer, “right now, the big concern in Tamil Nadu is power. Anyone looking at short-term investments will rethink their strategy in the state.” “But,” he says, “in the long term, the state will get its act together.” The Chennai-based Rane group has a plant in Sanand and has begun preliminary investigations in Gujarat for another plant for other vehicle makers. “Overall, we have had a positive experience in Gujarat. Government approvals happened easily. The credit goes to Tata,” says Lakshman.
Auto industry observers believe it is difficult for Tamil Nadu to maintain the tempo because of such factors; shortage of land, which is parcelled out as a fiscal sop, is not going to help either.
As companies like Ford, Renault-Nissan, Honda Motorcycles, Bajaj Auto and Hero MotoCorp expand, Gujarat will look to make the most of the opportunity.
There is a lot of hard work ahead, especially in skill-building, but Sahu says the government has assessed the requirement at over 2.5 lakh people a year after three years. “We are setting up skill-upgradation centres in a PPP mode with professional agencies and industries as partners,” he says.
As for Tamil Nadu, it faces larger problems in sustaining its position, given the impediments are infrastructural involving erratic power supply and absence of a proper freight corridor from the manufacturing areas to the port.
In June 2011, the Tamil Nadu government issued a press release saying PSA Peugeot Citroen would set up a car-making facility in the state. Within months, the French automaker denied ‘the news’; in early September, it announced setting up its plant elsewhere — in Sanand, Gujarat.
Said a top automobile executive of Tamil Nadu’s gaffe: “To us in the industry, it looked as if the Tamil Nadu government did this out of the tremendous pressure to drive home the point that it is the country’s automobile hub.”
It is a tag Tamil Nadu hasn’t lost yet. But the state would be in denial if it ignored the new challenger in the ring, one that is possessed with the ambition to become the country’s new Detroit.
CRYPTIC INVITE
When Ratan Tata, in October 2008, decided to relocate the Nano car project from Singur in West Bengal, following a prolonged anti-land acquisition agitation, he received a cryptic invitation via SMS from Chief Minister Narendra Modi: “Welcome to Gujarat.”
The invitation was accepted. Realising that the Tata project could be the magnet to woo other auto majors, Modi moved with astonishing speed, transferring land to the company in all of three days.
When Ford India, a Tamil Nadu resident since the mid-1990s, decided to set up its second plant in Sanand, there was palpable concern in the corridors of Fort St. George, the seat of the Tamil Nadu Government. By the time Peugeot made its announcement, Sanand had gone from being an obscure village near Ahmedabad, once ruled by the Vaghelas, to a fashionable word in the auto industry.
Enter, Maruti
It is another matter that Peugeot, which got 584 acres and announced an investment of Rs 4,000 crore, backed out because of economic slowdown in Europe. But the Gujarat story was not over. In 2012, the government allotted 700 acres to Maruti Suzuki, the country’s biggest automobile maker. Maruti plans to set up a plant with an initial capacity of 250,000 units, investing Rs 4,000 crore.
UNFAIR COMPARISON
Despite the auto rush, it is unfair to compare the two states in some respects. Tamil Nadu has had a long auto history — Austin cars were assembled here as early as 1948 by Ashok Motors, the predecessor of Ashok Leyland. In the 1990s, an auto renaissance spread in the State with the entry of Ford and Hyundai. Since then, it has welcomed big brands such as BMW, Renault-Nissan and Daimler Commercial Vehicles.
Right now, the gap between Sanand and Chennai is enormous. Chennai accounts for around 40 per cent of the country’s car production and about 60 per cent of automobile exports. As the accompanying chart shows, Chennai is far ahead of Sanand if you go by installed capacity of projects, completed and on the anvil.
AND NOT VERSUS
“From our point of view, we don’t see it as Tamil Nadu versus Gujarat but Tamil Nadu and Gujarat,” says Joginder Singh, President and Managing Director of Ford India. “We have excellent relationships with both governments. In Gujarat, since it is a new plant, we have the advantage of bringing in new technology.”
Kel Kearns, Ford’s Director of Manufacturing for the Sanand plant, is upbeat about the facility, which should be operational in a year or so and which is among the American automaker’s largest in Asia-Pacific. Why Sanand? “We wanted to buy government land to start with. This was the first sort of call we made about the sites that were available.”
Of course a clutch of other factors was responsible for the choice — including the cost of labour, good industrial relations, adequate power, road connectivity, and overall governmental support. But land and financial concessions are most talked about in discussions on Gujarat’s automobile foray.
ROW OVER SOPS
Sometimes, this has erupted in a controversy, as in 2009, when the Congress opposition accused the Modi government of doling out concessions of Rs 33,000 crore to Tata Motors over 20 years.
The drive from Ahmedabad to Sanand to the Ford facility, via the Tata Motors plant, provides a glimpse of the change in what was once a sleepy hinterland. Land prices have gone up and are likely to go up further thanks to perceptions that it will develop as an auto hub.
Ford’s Sanand plant is being commissioned at a time when Ford is on the fast track with its BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) strategy. To that extent, the plant will have a far bigger role to play than the Chennai unit. But Singh says both plants will be used for exports. “For our Chennai plant, we would like to have better connectivity with the port. We use the Ennore port for exports. In Gujarat, we will use Mundra, for which too we would like good connectivity so that we can move vehicles multi-modally.”
MANPOWER DEMAND
Once operational, the plant would need about 5,000 people with a range of skills. “We need the state government’s support for skill development and we have been assured that this is a strong area of focus for the government,” Singh says.
Skilled manpower and English knowledge are the traditional advantages Tamil Nadu has over other auto hubs such as Pune. This is coupled with a sound engineering base, thanks in some measure to the TVS group, which entered the components sector in the 1960s.
GUJARAT’s PR BLITZ
Also, in the PR blitz about Gujarat, Tamil Nadu’s attempt to woo the auto industry gets short shrift. M Raman, who was Director of Tamil Nadu’s Guidance Bureau and involved with wooing Ford (and Hyundai as well), says the American automaker was given the concessions it wanted as well as the land the state had readily available at Maraimalai Nagar, in Chennai’s southern reaches.
He recalls that Ford considered “some 72 points” and many different places before settling on Chennai because of the advantages it offered and the government’s willingness to go that extra mile to support the project.
Even so, the Tata Motors plant at Sanand is a reminder of the incredible speed at which the Nano project made its journey from Singur. It is here that Gujarat signalled that it could be a viable automotive destination. The government pulled out all stops so operations could kick off in less than 18 months from the time the Tatas dropped Singur. There is no doubt that it is the Nano project that spurred others to take a serious look at the State.
Multiplier Effect
M. Sahu, Gujarat’s Principal Secretary, Industries and Mines Department, dwells on the reasons for the special auto focus. “Backward integration is one of the highest in this business. This means if one mother plant comes in, it will bring hundreds of ancillary units. The automobile industry has the highest multiplier effect,” he says.
Gujarat has not faced any land acquisition problems because, as Sahu explains, the government believes farmers are partners in progress. “They get good money for land which is not fertile. There is no forcible acquisition.” He then reveals a “diversion in strategy” where a shift is happening towards a policy of land aggregation from (land) acquisition. Another 2,000 hectares are, incidentally, being acquired by the government in Sanand.
RAIL CONNECTIVITY
The Gujarat government is also preparing a rail network that will involve setting up sidings to the mother plant and the logistics park. “For the railway siding, we are forming a special purpose vehicle with DMIC (Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor) and the Gujarat Industrial Corridor Corporation as partners. We will rope in industry too,” Sahu says.
Chief Minister Narendra Modi has declared that by 2020, Gujarat should account for 50 per cent of expansion in the automobile sector. This is the kind of ambition that will pose a challenge to Tamil Nadu and threaten its auto hub position. For the moment, though, the State is sitting pretty with a string of big auto brands and a robust supplier base.
Yet, Tamil Nadu has issues it must deal with. CEOs complain about the infrastructure in power, ports and roads. Ford’s Singh concedes rail connectivity to the port is an issue. “We continue to discuss that with the government and hope things will happen soon,” he says.
TN’s POWER WOES
Says Harish Lakshman, non-executive Director of the Rane group, a component manufacturer, “right now, the big concern in Tamil Nadu is power. Anyone looking at short-term investments will rethink their strategy in the state.” “But,” he says, “in the long term, the state will get its act together.” The Chennai-based Rane group has a plant in Sanand and has begun preliminary investigations in Gujarat for another plant for other vehicle makers. “Overall, we have had a positive experience in Gujarat. Government approvals happened easily. The credit goes to Tata,” says Lakshman.
Auto industry observers believe it is difficult for Tamil Nadu to maintain the tempo because of such factors; shortage of land, which is parcelled out as a fiscal sop, is not going to help either.
As companies like Ford, Renault-Nissan, Honda Motorcycles, Bajaj Auto and Hero MotoCorp expand, Gujarat will look to make the most of the opportunity.
There is a lot of hard work ahead, especially in skill-building, but Sahu says the government has assessed the requirement at over 2.5 lakh people a year after three years. “We are setting up skill-upgradation centres in a PPP mode with professional agencies and industries as partners,” he says.
As for Tamil Nadu, it faces larger problems in sustaining its position, given the impediments are infrastructural involving erratic power supply and absence of a proper freight corridor from the manufacturing areas to the port.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Harrowing, simply indeed!
a 75 HP engine for that behemoth? After 50+ years of existence they still havent had a new design and are still in the open for transfer of engine technology from abroad?
Ambassador's new gamble
a 75 HP engine for that behemoth? After 50+ years of existence they still havent had a new design and are still in the open for transfer of engine technology from abroad?
Ambassador's new gamble
HM is bending backwards to remove the drawbacks of the current generation model which lies in its noisy engines. The company says it will strap the new model with a new engine that is more powerful and efficient.
“There will be different types of engines for different variants of the Ambassador. Some of these will be produced in-house . HM is also keen on establishing a partnership with a European company for technology transfer”, says a senior company executive.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Masha allah and even chabria has got into the act.
Launch the lifeboats!
Launch the lifeboats!
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Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
Over the years, does Hindustan Motors have any innovations to its credit,in engines, transmissions, steering, brakes, fuselage, body etc, or have they used the license production route for just about everything? I do know, that you don't hear of a report like "Hindustan Motors has developed ... from its in-house R&D". After 60 years, it's hard to believe that no innovations or totally in house developments have taken place at all.
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Dileep
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
The following will be the 'innovations' in the All New Amby. (Today being what it is)
1. An all new front grill and bumper.
2. Clear head lamps (on the same old round frame, and HALOGEN bulbs, no less)
3. Brand new, european engine with 'state of the art' electronic ignition, 'dual vent carburettor' and catalytic converter, mated with the time trusted HM 4 speed transmission.
............
1. An all new front grill and bumper.
2. Clear head lamps (on the same old round frame, and HALOGEN bulbs, no less)
3. Brand new, european engine with 'state of the art' electronic ignition, 'dual vent carburettor' and catalytic converter, mated with the time trusted HM 4 speed transmission.
............
Re: Indian Autos Thread
One of my college professors was a dude who put in some 20+ years in HM, he would speak as if he were from ISRO or the AGNI team with a "oh we are so technically superior" feel to it.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Honda Amaze: Will be worth the wait!
Honda’s most awaited car of recent times – the Amaze – will hit showrooms near you by the second week of this month.
.....
Honda has had diesel engines in its cars, mostly in Europe, for more than a decade. So, the fuel and its intricacies are not entirely new to the company. The 2.2-litre i-CTDi engine in the European Accord from 2003, the 2.2-litre i-DTEC engine in the European CR-V of 2008 and the more recent 1.6-litre i-DTEC engine in the 2013 European Civic have been popular diesels from Honda.
It is this 1.6-litre i-DTEC that has been borrowed for developing the new 1.5-litre diesel engine that finds its global debut in the Amaze for India. We had done an initial impressions drive report after driving the Amaze at Honda’s test track at Tochigi, near Tokyo in Japan. Here is the full test review report of the Amaze after driving the final production versions (both petrol and diesel) on Indian roads.
.....
DIESEL STRENGTH
The most awaited information about the new Amaze is of course going to be about the new diesel engine. Honda fans won’t be disappointed here. In terms of refinement levels, the 1.5-litre i-DTEC sounds like a classic Honda powerplant despite the difference in fuel.
In their successful quest to make this the most fuel-efficient diesel in India, Honda engineers have focused on weight reduction and friction reduction in the new engine. The 1,498cc engine itself is an all-aluminium open-deck high-pressure diecast block. Honda claims that mechanical friction has been reduced to the same level as a petrol engine of the same size.
One important new innovation in the Amaze that has contributed to friction reduction is said to be the new engine oil. The ultra low viscosity engine oil co-developed with Idemitsu and another Japanese company is said to have low viscosity properties even at low operating temperatures. The oil is also said to be as competitive in terms of cost as the current 5W-30 standard diesel engine oil.
New materials have allowed a reduction of piston and conrod weight and the double overhead camshaft (DOHC) mill also gets high-strength, light-weight camshafts. A high flow-rate, high-swirl head port also ensures that there are no pumping losses.
The diesel injection is via a common rail fuel system that operates at 1,600 bar pressure and the injection timing itself is finely controlled using solenoid injectors. There are combinations of pre and post injection cycles that Honda engineers have built into the system to optimise fuel efficiency. The only minor downside of the mapping is the judder at the time of cranking the engine.
The engine doesn’t rattle very much and even the characteristic common rail engine noise level is much less during the idling cycle. Though Honda engineers from Japan and Thailand said much work was put into sound deadening and noise isolation there is a quite a bit of noise ingress in the cabin at higher rpm levels and during hard acceleration.
PERFORMANCE
The engine itself is a champ, accelerating smoothly and effortlessly, with none of the lag that is often seen in other turbocharged diesels. The peak power output of the engine is 100 PS at 3,600 rpm (Honda hadn’t confirmed the details of the India-spec Amaze earlier). The peak torque of the 1.5-litre i-DTEC engine is 200 Nm from a low 1,750 rpm. But, the best part of the engine is that almost 80 per cent of that torque is available from as low as 1,250 rpm.
Combining that with a short first and a taller second and third gears in the 5-speed manual gearbox that has been chosen, means that most city drivers can stay in second or third gear without the risk of running out of torque or of knocking setting in, if they are stuck in slow-moving traffic.
The gearbox itself is shared with the 5-speed transmission in the Brio, but for both the petrol and diesel powertrains in the Amaze, the gearbox has seen considerable changes to improve shift feel and ease. Special bearing guides are said to have been employed for increasing the smoothness of the shift.
.....
BOTTOMLINE
The biggest carrot that Honda will dangle over the eyes of potential entry-sedan buyers is the fact that the diesel Amaze is ‘the most fuel-efficient car’ in the country with a rated mileage of 25.8 kmpl (ARAI). Now that should be enticing enough even for petrol-heads to convert given the current fuel prices.
Hopefully, Honda has already learnt its lessons with getting its model pricing strategy right after the Jazz episode. I expect prices to be in the range of Rs 5.5 lakh to Rs 7.5 lakh. There is a lot riding on the shoulders of the Amaze and if the price positioning is set competitively, Honda India would have then let the proverbial cat out amongst the pigeons.
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
What i like about Amaze is the fact that ABS is standard across all variants. Hopefully that'll see wider adoption. I really hope they price it well.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Also reading Dileep's list of innovations in HM Ambassador I guess Hindustan Motors have not managed to even come close to what is known as a 'car' these days. Hindustan Motors, I guess managed to survive because once upon a time this was the car meant for the babus. Looks like even Babus dont want them any moreYogi_G wrote:One of my college professors was a dude who put in some 20+ years in HM, he would speak as if he were from ISRO or the AGNI team with a "oh we are so technically superior" feel to it.
. Perhaps some one should chronicle the downfall for this automotive company. Today the only chap I know who drives around in an Ambassador car is a police man in my town, who is also a poet. He uses the car as a measure of his uniqueness.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Amaze's fuel rating of ~26Kpl, is it in city driving or highway driving? 26 Kpl is almost 61mpg (US)! I some how doubt that kind of mileage even with the advanced features of Honda's diesel motor.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Eh...i have squeezed 22 kmpl in my diesel vista. 25 should be possible.
Massa bigger engines tuned for aggressive acceleration and driving speeds of 70 mph cannot compete on mileage with indian cars with smaller engines tuned for best mileage at 60 kmph.
Massa bigger engines tuned for aggressive acceleration and driving speeds of 70 mph cannot compete on mileage with indian cars with smaller engines tuned for best mileage at 60 kmph.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^Apart from for use of projecting tough image, massa cars need good acceleration for entering interstates and merging especially in states like PRC where merge zones after entrance ramps are a few centimeters long and are curved on top of that.
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
Massa figures are almost always Petrol figures, these are diesel figures. They're ARAI figures, but you should get 24 on highways. Most diesel engines in the market return similar figures these days on the highway. City you can expect around 16 kmpl. With petrol the best you can get it 16-18 kmpl on highway.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Has any Maulener here driven the Maruti Ertiga? Impressions?
Background: I have been looking for a diesel vehicle that has a little more space than the standard Sedan, can carry 2-3 people (plus driver) plus my dog over long distances (inter state) if needed, but is not in the SUV category. I also want to be able to drive it as an office car, if needed.
So far I have identfied two vehicles- the Maruti Ertiga and the Toyota Innova.
http://www.carwale.com/marutisuzuki-cars/ertiga/
http://www.carwale.com/toyota-cars/innova/
I have done some research. The Innova is larger and more comfortable, but also is more expensive (Rs 12-Rs14 lakh as compared to Ertiga's top of the line Rs 9.5 lakh). The Innova also gives less mileage (10-11 km/ liter as compared to Ertiga's 17 km/l in cities and 20 km/l on the highway).
I would have plumped for the Ertiga, except for the (comparative) space problem and so am undecided for now. I recently went on a long distance trip in an Innova and I thought it was a very comfortable and safe vehicle.
It would be good to hear some opinions.
And if there's a vehicle that I have missed out on and that fits the blll, I would be glad to hear of it. In fact this would be great. Or should I just buy a larger Sedan and be done with it?
To recap, my requirements:
1. Space for 2-3 people plus dog plus driver
2. Should be able to go long distances on the highway.
3. Safety
4. Mileage
5. Should not look like an SUV.
Background: I have been looking for a diesel vehicle that has a little more space than the standard Sedan, can carry 2-3 people (plus driver) plus my dog over long distances (inter state) if needed, but is not in the SUV category. I also want to be able to drive it as an office car, if needed.
So far I have identfied two vehicles- the Maruti Ertiga and the Toyota Innova.
http://www.carwale.com/marutisuzuki-cars/ertiga/
http://www.carwale.com/toyota-cars/innova/
I have done some research. The Innova is larger and more comfortable, but also is more expensive (Rs 12-Rs14 lakh as compared to Ertiga's top of the line Rs 9.5 lakh). The Innova also gives less mileage (10-11 km/ liter as compared to Ertiga's 17 km/l in cities and 20 km/l on the highway).
I would have plumped for the Ertiga, except for the (comparative) space problem and so am undecided for now. I recently went on a long distance trip in an Innova and I thought it was a very comfortable and safe vehicle.
It would be good to hear some opinions.
And if there's a vehicle that I have missed out on and that fits the blll, I would be glad to hear of it. In fact this would be great. Or should I just buy a larger Sedan and be done with it?
To recap, my requirements:
1. Space for 2-3 people plus dog plus driver
2. Should be able to go long distances on the highway.
3. Safety
4. Mileage
5. Should not look like an SUV.
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
I'd have said XUV if not for #5. My BIL owns one and it's very good. Better value for money than the dated (and expensive) Innova. If you're feeling brave, you can give Tata Aria a try. Lot of discounts on it right now. 
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Sriman ji, thanks. The XUV and Aria both look interesting, but are obviously too 'SUV like' for my tastes for daily office driving.
I am willing to reconsider though; I have recently R2id and am out of touch with driving in India. Do people use these SUVs comfortably for their office commutes?
Edit: Maybe I should just buy a larger Sedan and be done with it.
I am willing to reconsider though; I have recently R2id and am out of touch with driving in India. Do people use these SUVs comfortably for their office commutes?
Edit: Maybe I should just buy a larger Sedan and be done with it.
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
While driving an SUV isn't exactly comfortable in cities, i don't see Innova being easy to drive either. Innova is almost as big as the XUV. XUV is just a little taller that's all. Ertiga on the other hand is much smaller and i'm told it drives like a sedan. If it's just 3 passengers and a dog, Ertiga might just cut it if you think you can fit in luggage and the dog in the third row.
May be you can consider a roof rack if you think you need more luggage carrying capacity for that occasional long trip?
IMO, the real need for an Innova is only if you travel with 7 passengers and luggage regularly. It's a very good vehicle no doubt, but in other scenarios i think there are (fresher) better options.
May be you can consider a roof rack if you think you need more luggage carrying capacity for that occasional long trip?
IMO, the real need for an Innova is only if you travel with 7 passengers and luggage regularly. It's a very good vehicle no doubt, but in other scenarios i think there are (fresher) better options.
Last edited by Sriman on 02 Apr 2013 10:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Thank you Srimanji and Marten ji.
Looks the Ertiga may not cut it as I cannot do away with riding comfort. It's a large dog, so a Sedan also seems out of the picture.
So it may be the Innova or a new look at Aria Pure. The search continues.
Looks the Ertiga may not cut it as I cannot do away with riding comfort. It's a large dog, so a Sedan also seems out of the picture.
So it may be the Innova or a new look at Aria Pure. The search continues.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^^My advise based on long road trips is Innova: Nothing comes close to this vehicle in terms of ride comfort over long distance. Even if you've to drive it yourself, it is much more comfortable than most sedans out here. The entire ergonomics things is designed from word go for long range travel. I have done 500 kms plus (in the backseat) and it is really comfortable. Have not had the opportunity to travel in Aria so cannot comment.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Apart from the looks quanto definitely seems a reasonable option. Some advantages,
1. Gives SUV like visibility and riding feel.
2. Less than 4 metres and 1.5 diesel engine -- so only 12%
3. Room for 2 more people (short people) for those rare occassions when you need more than 5 people onboard.
4. 100 HP engine with solid torque which is linear and without turbo lag, exploring if there is a tuning kit available for it to give it that additional 10-20 HP.
5. 3 pop, so good mileage of 17.2 KMPL per ARAI. No noticeable 3 pop sound.
6. Top of the line with ABS and airbags at 9 lakhs on road price in most places
7. doesnt feel under-powered till 130 KM
Disadv:
1. Looks
2. 1600+ kilos of body weight, but to its credit its t/w is still 60HP per ton, which is same as innova or the xylo with an meagle
3. small tyres for its size, deliberately reduced for more interior space
4. slight body roll
5. bit over-priced
6. Bells and whistles in top end doesnt include bluetooth or steering controls
7. No climate control for any variant
Its definitely a VFM, for me looks hardly matter what matters is practical utility. I am looking at quanto mk2 once the niggles in the current mk1 are ironed out.
1. Gives SUV like visibility and riding feel.
2. Less than 4 metres and 1.5 diesel engine -- so only 12%
3. Room for 2 more people (short people) for those rare occassions when you need more than 5 people onboard.
4. 100 HP engine with solid torque which is linear and without turbo lag, exploring if there is a tuning kit available for it to give it that additional 10-20 HP.
5. 3 pop, so good mileage of 17.2 KMPL per ARAI. No noticeable 3 pop sound.
6. Top of the line with ABS and airbags at 9 lakhs on road price in most places
7. doesnt feel under-powered till 130 KM
Disadv:
1. Looks
2. 1600+ kilos of body weight, but to its credit its t/w is still 60HP per ton, which is same as innova or the xylo with an meagle
3. small tyres for its size, deliberately reduced for more interior space
4. slight body roll
5. bit over-priced
6. Bells and whistles in top end doesnt include bluetooth or steering controls
7. No climate control for any variant
Its definitely a VFM, for me looks hardly matter what matters is practical utility. I am looking at quanto mk2 once the niggles in the current mk1 are ironed out.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
I am looking to the nissan evalia or something boxy as my next vehicle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-SD4jIkE94
a slightly bigger jazz or the old honda element with a totally folding inside would do just as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-SD4jIkE94
a slightly bigger jazz or the old honda element with a totally folding inside would do just as well.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^
Honda is building an MPV on the Brio platform:
http://paultan.org/2013/02/16/honda-bri ... ears-iims/
It'll probably be similar to Ertiga and not a full blown MPV like Innova. FIAT/Chrysler might also bring Town and Country. I'm surprised MPVs (other than Innova) haven't taken off big in India.
Honda is building an MPV on the Brio platform:
http://paultan.org/2013/02/16/honda-bri ... ears-iims/
It'll probably be similar to Ertiga and not a full blown MPV like Innova. FIAT/Chrysler might also bring Town and Country. I'm surprised MPVs (other than Innova) haven't taken off big in India.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
saw a new entry to the commercial truck market - BharatBenz. From the Daimler Benz family.
From just Tata and AL 15 years ago, we have Volvo doing good in luxury bus segment, Eicher entering HCV segment, AL pushing in LCV segment and a huge crowd in 1 and 2 ton segment, and now a new brand entering.
From just Tata and AL 15 years ago, we have Volvo doing good in luxury bus segment, Eicher entering HCV segment, AL pushing in LCV segment and a huge crowd in 1 and 2 ton segment, and now a new brand entering.
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^
I see a lot of MAN trucks around as well. My BIL tells me they're doing well as they're priced cheaper.
I see a lot of MAN trucks around as well. My BIL tells me they're doing well as they're priced cheaper.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Baikul wrote:Has any Maulener here driven the Maruti Ertiga? Impressions?
Background: I have been looking for a diesel vehicle that has a little more space than the standard Sedan, can carry 2-3 people (plus driver) plus my dog over long distances (inter state) if needed, but is not in the SUV category. I also want to be able to drive it as an office car, if needed.
So far I have identfied two vehicles- the Maruti Ertiga and the Toyota Innova.
SNIP......
I have an Ertiga, at home and my dad Drives it every day. It is a good car, but is cramped in the 3rd row. If it was 6 inches longer, it could have nicely competed with the Innova and the Xylo in the space category. It is a poor mans Innova.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
IF ertiga was 6 inches longer then it would be more than 4 meters long and not qualify for lower ED rates which means it would cost more than Inr 1-1.5 Lac more.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^^
I don't know about the ED rates. My comment was purely from the users POV, as the lack of length makes the 3rd row very uncomfortable for most adults in may family.
I don't know about the ED rates. My comment was purely from the users POV, as the lack of length makes the 3rd row very uncomfortable for most adults in may family.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Thanks for the feedback. Can the 2nd row seats at least be pulled back to give more leg space?Pratyush wrote:Baikul wrote:Has any Maulener here driven the Maruti Ertiga? Impressions?
Background: I have been looking for a diesel vehicle that has a little more space than the standard Sedan, can carry 2-3 people (plus driver) plus my dog over long distances (inter state) if needed, but is not in the SUV category. I also want to be able to drive it as an office car, if needed.
So far I have identfied two vehicles- the Maruti Ertiga and the Toyota Innova.
SNIP......
I have an Ertiga, at home and my dad Drives it every day. It is a good car, but is cramped in the 3rd row. If it was 6 inches longer, it could have nicely competed with the Innova and the Xylo in the space category. It is a poor mans Innova.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
The honda jazz might work for you if the large dog can fit in the Boot area. The seats are completely foldable flat which is a jazz strong point.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Baikul wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. Can the 2nd row seats at least be pulled back to give more leg space?
Yes, it can be pushed back. It will help if you see the vehicle in the showroom. The Diesel is the same that powers the rest of the Maruti Family.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Agree with you on the customer service. Which model did you get and what was the exact on road price? Did you get any freebies and discounts? I hear it has good linear power delivery and good torque kicks in even at 1600-1800 rpm and this should be excellent in bumper to bumper traffic.ChandraV wrote:Yogi_G wrote:Apart from the looks quanto definitely seems a reasonable option. Some advantages,
1. Gives SUV like visibility and riding feel.
2. Less than 4 metres and 1.5 diesel engine -- so only 12%
3. Room for 2 more people (short people) for those rare occassions when you need more than 5 people onboard.
4. 100 HP engine with solid torque which is linear and without turbo lag, exploring if there is a tuning kit available for it to give it that additional 10-20 HP.
5. 3 pop, so good mileage of 17.2 KMPL per ARAI. No noticeable 3 pop sound.
6. Top of the line with ABS and airbags at 9 lakhs on road price in most places
7. doesnt feel under-powered till 130 KM
Disadv:
1. Looks
2. 1600+ kilos of body weight, but to its credit its t/w is still 60HP per ton, which is same as innova or the xylo with an meagle
3. small tyres for its size, deliberately reduced for more interior space
4. slight body roll
5. bit over-priced
6. Bells and whistles in top end doesnt include bluetooth or steering controls
7. No climate control for any variant
Its definitely a VFM, for me looks hardly matter what matters is practical utility. I am looking at quanto mk2 once the niggles in the current mk1 are ironed out.
I just got myself a Quanto. Pretty decent vehicle so far, but then, you shouldn't expect customer service like Toyota or Hyundai or Maruti here.
And I've been getting a mileage of just 11-12 kmpl. This is in the city, with the AC on almost all the time. And in Bangalore's terrible traffic, we're talking about 2nd and 3rd gear driving almost all the time. Let us see how well it performs on the highway.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Did you try using the Handbrakes and then release the clutch slowly when you detect slight movement leave the brake and accelerate.
Good old slope test in Oman. Even my friend SX-4 did this when amini made me stop on a slope on the Ooty Masinagudi road while climbing
Good old slope test in Oman. Even my friend SX-4 did this when amini made me stop on a slope on the Ooty Masinagudi road while climbing
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Chandra ji, in terms of power to weight ratio the quanto is just as powerful as the m-eagle powered xylo, both tallying at 61 HP per ton of weight. I have heard that the quanto can pick up and accelerate quick even under full load (one case reported in team bhp was 9 people in the vehicle), can you confirm it please?
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Sriman
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Re: Indian Autos Thread
^^
May be it's the stock tires? It's possible that its undertired to cut costs.
May be it's the stock tires? It's possible that its undertired to cut costs.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
Could be the Quanto engine requires above 1750 revs for the Turbo charger to kick in and release the Torque.
Big Bazzar shopping 40 Kgs- 4 adults- 300 kgs. 340 kgs should be enough from stop start at a ramp even those badly designed ones in Indian shopping malls.
Was the flooring in a smooth finish not allowing the Tyres to gain traction?
Big Bazzar shopping 40 Kgs- 4 adults- 300 kgs. 340 kgs should be enough from stop start at a ramp even those badly designed ones in Indian shopping malls.
Was the flooring in a smooth finish not allowing the Tyres to gain traction?
Re: Indian Autos Thread
The quanto's tires are puny, 14" I think, purposely tired that way for more cabin space.Sriman wrote:^^
May be it's the stock tires? It's possible that its undertired to cut costs.
Re: Indian Autos Thread
The Jazz is no more on the market from last month.Singha wrote:The honda jazz might work for you if the large dog can fit in the Boot area. The seats are completely foldable flat which is a jazz strong point.
If you are really serious about getting one, you might get lucky with something lying unsold (if at all) at some Honda dealership somewhere.