Indian Autos Thread

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Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 01 Nov 2013 18:51

Can I second Gus. Folks in India have little experience with the higher speeds on these new highways. Many a time I had to demand that my hire taxi driver slow down. Posted speed limit on hill road is 40kmph and the guy was going at 90 kmph. We sailed past 3 accidents one with blood still spilt all over the street and the guy would still not slow down. There is almost a sense of contempt for the folks who have accidents. Like only ‘bad’ drivers have accidents. ‘Good’ drivers never have accidents, etc.

It is a function of education. At least the lane driving behavior in India has improved just a bit. 60%-70% of the vehicles were following and staying inside lanes. A few years ago it was only 10% or less.

Folks will have to learn this the hard way that as speeds increase even the smallest accident will be a fatality. From 60 kmph to 120 kmph the energy in the vehicle quadruples. Meaning braking distance quadruples, risk of injury/fatality quadruples, etc. I took my dads splendor out for a drive at night and there were kids going 80-90 kmph on little 100cc bikes. A single error will mean death at those speeds. Very few helmets as well.

Folks in west type countries are more careful because they have usually been through numerous accidents already. The key is to keep people alive till they figure it out. I myself have totaled 3.5 cars over my life though it was my fault only once. Right now the equipment in India should be geared to keeping folks alive till folks understand the nature of speed. This may not be possible with things like motorcycles however.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby nachiket » 01 Nov 2013 19:27

^^Saar, I think the huge traffic fines (along with a decent chance of getting caught and actually having to pay the whole amount) for speeding and not wearing the seat belt/helmet also has something to do with folks in west being more careful. This is borne out by first time desi drivers in massa land obeying all the rules most of the time. Otherwise the lack of high-speed experience should affect them as well.

Being fined for speeding is still rare in India even on roads where speeding is common. Coming across a cop who will not accept a bribe and will insist on you paying the actual fine amount is even rarer.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 01 Nov 2013 20:10

No doubt saar, enforcement helps, but the vast majority of folks in the west voluntarily follow the laws as well. The vast majority of road rules in the west are unwritten or followed automatically.

Take a look at lane merging, every now and they there is a jerk or two who messes with the system but most times every alternate person will give way allowing you to merge.
Or at 4 way stops, people will work with each other to stop in sequence so it is clear to everyone who is going to cross in sequence.
On streets without center turn lanes, folks will squeeze into the middle so folks on both directions can keep driving while they wait to turn.
At crowded junctions folks will back up/leave gaps to allow left turning traffic to cut across.
At merge lanes most folks will merge early to prevent jamming the lanes.
When the Traffic lights go on the blink, folks will slow down and drive across carefully rather than just blasting across.

I could go on & on....

Traffic discipline is a choice, no amount of police action can by itself end indiscipline. Discipline is a choice we have to make as a group. If the majority is disciplined then the traffic will improve. You don't need a speeding ticket to know that your driving is placing you at risk. I ask my taxi driver to slow down because I fear for MY life not because I fear some speeding ticket.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby nachiket » 01 Nov 2013 20:18

^^If that was universally true, there would be no need for so many cops patrolling in so many places with radar guns and traffic cams at every intersection to catch people running red lights and stop signs. I am not arguing that drivers in general behave much better in the west (or anywhere with a decent road infrastructure) than in India. Just saying that several decades of excellent roads and heavy enforcement of rules has inculcated that in the drivers. They didn't just all sit together and decide one day to be good drivers. If you bring down the enforcement and road size/quality to Indian levels and increase traffic and pedestrian density to Indian levels and you'll see American drivers become just as bad.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Prasad » 01 Nov 2013 20:43

Driver education is important. It is practically non-existant in India. Americans complain in the same way about their drivers in comparison to Germans who have a bloody difficult license earning process. In India, you can get a license if you pay the rto, even without knowing how to drive. That is the problem.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 01 Nov 2013 21:20

there is no 'one problem' with 'one solution'. there are many intermingled and interdependent issues and need a concerted and coordinated push to change/improve in all aspects...which needs a lot of will from the people and the govt. currently, that will is not there in both. the only thing you can do, is to set a personal example and hope to influence your immediate people to do so too.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 01 Nov 2013 22:58

Does anyone get a feeling on the ground that folks are even concerned about the ~200,000 annual death rate? Personally most folks don't know and don't care. If I bring it up, the is a shrug and nothing can be done resignation.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan M » 02 Nov 2013 03:51

If you get a lot of un/poorly educated, lower economic strata yahoos all driving on the roads with a "get there first complex", this will be the result.
Ultimately, with this group, only severe law enforcement will work.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Bade » 02 Nov 2013 07:43

It is not just the poor educated lower strata folks who do this. I can vouch for poor driving skills even amongst the well to do folks. I have seen sensible driving done only by foreign returned folks, even if for short stints abroad like a few years to the middle east. Basically, it is a lack of proper driver training in India before you get to be behind the wheels. The poor driving examples one sees gets propagated.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 02 Nov 2013 10:30

Karan M wrote:If you get a lot of un/poorly educated, lower economic strata yahoos all driving on the roads with a "get there first complex", this will be the result.
Ultimately, with this group, only severe law enforcement will work.


huh what????

it is the rich who get hung up with status and ego issues who drive horribly rashly in highways. the lower economic status people push cars that although badly driven, is relatively lesser risky because of lower speeds.

the worst car driving i've seen are almost always skodas in GST, luxury imports like audis on the blr-salem highway, innova taxis (not ferrying poor people these, mostly rich guys telling the driver to get there fast)

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan M » 02 Nov 2013 11:04

Bade wrote:It is not just the poor educated lower strata folks who do this. I can vouch for poor driving skills even amongst the well to do folks. I have seen sensible driving done only by foreign returned folks, even if for short stints abroad like a few years to the middle east. Basically, it is a lack of proper driver training in India before you get to be behind the wheels. The poor driving examples one sees gets propagated.


raw numbers are on the side of the former. if you see the huge amounts of traffic within some of the metros, a lot of traffic is due to taxis, autos, it-vity cabs, trucks and then pvtly owned vehicles. add the numbers up and the former will have a huge effect. pvt owners all said and done, will not want to damage their car, have insurance premiums etc. at best, they do tailgating. but amazing rash driving + aggression is something that is all too common with former segment and also complete disregard for law. as one of these guys told me (he was from bihar) that even if cops wanted, they couldnt find him. ironically enough, he became a driving instructor.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan M » 02 Nov 2013 11:08

Gus wrote:
Karan M wrote:If you get a lot of un/poorly educated, lower economic strata yahoos all driving on the roads with a "get there first complex", this will be the result.
Ultimately, with this group, only severe law enforcement will work.


huh what????

it is the rich who get hung up with status and ego issues who drive horribly rashly in highways. the lower economic status people push cars that although badly driven, is relatively lesser risky because of lower speeds.

the worst car driving i've seen are almost always skodas in GST, luxury imports like audis on the blr-salem highway, innova taxis (not ferrying poor people these, mostly rich guys telling the driver to get there fast)

re Gus

lower speeds? a tempo trax hitting you at a lower speed or an auto cutting in front and causing an accident is still pretty risky, as is a truck rashly driven.

its not speed alone, its the driving style. even at lower speeds, cutting in front of others, changing lanes without rhyme or reason, weaving, dashing across other cars as signal changes, speeding up only when somebody tries to overtake... the habits seem to be hardwired and absolutely defy any rationality bar competitve instinct/aggression.

actually the rich in their skodas/fancy cars are a minute fraction compared to the huge number of it-vity types in some metros, being ferried in extremely rashly driven tempo-travellers, the umpteen autos and taxis (both within the city and from outside) driven by the aforementioned segment, with reckless abandon. as you move between cities, the buses are driven by maniacs who are often drunk and don't give a sh!t about their own life or those of others on the highways. its not better in the cities either.

of a bunch of 25-40 yr middle class/professional demographic (in personal sampling), i can count around 30-40% as aggressive drivers. but amongst the rural/ lower strata/come to city/ drive as profession crowd, almost 100% are like that.

if you add up these numbers, there is definitely a class effect here, where the poorly educated/lower strata yahoos don't give a darn for any rules whatsover, versus the middle aged or even younger folks in their cars. the former outnumber the latter by far on the roads. they neither respect the law or others on the road. rolling down the window, cursing the other guy is std behavior. even as they weave. even if rules are given that they can drive slow, they will not.

plus their tendency to resort to physical aggression is all too common and evident. the average middle class guy in a car will not get into an altercation beyond a point. these guys are used to it. as cities expand into rural areas there is more fun to be had, with smallest passing the vehicle game leading to fights and altercations.

unless law enforcement is strict and 24/7, these things will continue. we cannot hope for some utopia where everyone wakes up and becomes responsible.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Bade » 02 Nov 2013 17:25

Do you think these taxis in big cities are also owned by these poor rural folks who immigrate to the cities to take up driving ? Why single out only a segment, when the behavior is quite prevalent. Very few in the middle class drive their own vehicles, especially on long distance trips.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 02 Nov 2013 17:58

Karan M wrote:lower speeds? a tempo trax hitting you at a lower speed or an auto cutting in front and causing an accident is still pretty risky, as is a truck rashly driven.


i don't think you drive much in indian highways. my observation comes from driving in TN and KA. can't speak much for elsewhere, although i did drive from TN to ahmedabad, bhopal etc...on trucks, back in my auto industry days.

auto's don't go on highways out of the city. autos cause fender bender type accidents in congested city roads. while that is not acceptable, it is not the kind of accidents that takes lives.

trucks rarely indulge in behavior that causes accidents. they are usually at a constant speed in one lane and are predictable. stopped trucks on highways do cause accidents.


of a bunch of 25-40 yr middle class/professional demographic (in personal sampling), i can count around 30-40% as aggressive drivers. but amongst the rural/ lower strata/come to city/ drive as profession crowd, almost 100% are like that.

if you add up these numbers, there is definitely a class effect here,


huh?? where is this...i surely don't see this where i drive. it is just bad driving all around..amplified by what vehicle you have. the faster your car, the more rash and dangerous the driver is.
unless law enforcement is strict and 24/7, these things will continue. we cannot hope for some utopia where everyone wakes up and becomes responsible.


nobody is arguing against law enforcement.

it is just wrong to single out one group and saying law enforcement is needed for that group.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gus » 02 Nov 2013 18:03

it used to be that only the rich get to bully and indulge in road rash and now everybody does that and it is suddenly a 'class' problem?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby uddu » 03 Nov 2013 08:48

Hybrids are beginning to take off...The hybrids will be ruling the near future until the Electric vehicles can solve the range problem.
We can expect all vehicles to be of some sort of Hybrid make by 2020.
With reduction in the installation cost of solar panels..the electricity generation using solar power is going to catch up in a very big way in the near future.
TVS has come with a parallel hybrid technology. If able to productionize it's good news. Hope the TVS Qube is introduced faster.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbike ... treak.html

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vasu raya » 09 Nov 2013 10:48

Anybody know if cell phone signals to the tower could be observed for the speed of the handset, it will help track vehicles speed on highways as almost everybody has a cell phone now. Atleast in a bus you can't have none, day or night

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vasu raya » 10 Nov 2013 08:01

With a technology like MAWS which fixes radio emitters at long distances, can one solve the mundane problem of traffic management specifically speeding and weaving? People carry cell phones all the time and cell towers receive these signals, as the handset changes position, the new piece of hardware receiving feed from the Base station antenna would have to track it and give a speed fix on it. Each tower can handle about 250 simultaneous calls but probably hands off 1000 or more phones in the area. Since one is interested in only speeders, the volume of interesting emitters is less not to mention these are cooperating 'targets', this new hardware based on SoC would generate tracks alerting traffic cops. Fleet managers could have the emitter/handset installed specifically on the vehicles and could be automatically ticketed.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan M » 10 Nov 2013 15:59

Gus wrote:i don't think you drive much in indian highways. my observation comes from driving in TN and KA. can't speak much for elsewhere, although i did drive from TN to ahmedabad, bhopal etc...on trucks, back in my auto industry days.


au contraire.. my experience comes from driving in both highways and metro.. the number of yahoos from lower stratas of indian society (economically) has ballooned.. and while that is good for economic equality, they don't give a darn for the rules either, have in many cases been trained in driving very haphazardly and are very used to bribing/beating their way out of trouble.. they lead hard lives and hence don't give a darn for social niceties on the road.. or what is acceptable or not.

auto's don't go on highways out of the city. autos cause fender bender type accidents in congested city roads. while that is not acceptable, it is not the kind of accidents that takes lives.


autos are a huge issue in some cities/metros, i have personally observed autos causing near fatalities time and again.. they are rash, a law unto themselves and unless law is nearby very prone to violence..

trucks rarely indulge in behavior that causes accidents. they are usually at a constant speed in one lane and are predictable. stopped trucks on highways do cause accidents.


again subjective.. in my experience have seen rashly driven trucks forcing vehicles to side, bikes having near miss and less said about buses the better.. driven by drunk drivers.

huh?? where is this...i surely don't see this where i drive. it is just bad driving all around..amplified by what vehicle you have. the faster your car, the more rash and dangerous the driver is.


KA and parts of Naarth. its not just speed but "attitude".. in KA f.e. there is a huge group of taxi cab/call center type movers who frequently do risky overtaking and stuff and hence their heavier vehicles even at lower speeds can cause a big problem

obody is arguing against law enforcement.

it is just wrong to single out one group and saying law enforcement is needed for that group.


it is absolutely not wrong to single out a high risk group which is used to treating law enforcement as a joke. i have lost track of the number of times i have seen this high risk group get pulled over, whisk off a few 50's and waltz off, without insurance and other stuff checked. or get into fisticuffs with otherwise law abiding sedate middle class types. added to which is the general tendency towards goondaism in many of these groups and the feeling that if the police heat gets too much, they'll just "go back to native" and come back when things cool down.

yesterday i was on way back in an auto @ midnight after a beer or two - a) the auto guy tried every trick in the book to gyp and was greedy enough that even 2x was not enough (kept arguing) b) was stopped by cops who took him to the side - dude neither had license/nor even identification and bribed his way out of trouble. laws, they think, are for suckers.

like it or not saar, there is an issue, being PC won't solve it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Karan M » 10 Nov 2013 16:05

Bade wrote:Do you think these taxis in big cities are also owned by these poor rural folks who immigrate to the cities to take up driving ? Why single out only a segment, when the behavior is quite prevalent. Very few in the middle class drive their own vehicles, especially on long distance trips.


its not the owners who are a problem, its the drivers. it doesn't matter who provides the service, what matters is whether what they do is justified or not. the behavior in part is prevalent because of these yahoos who treat road rules as a joke, break each and every tenet, regard law enforcement as an avoidable nuisance and even menace other people on the road.

in city environment esp, they are a far more dangerous group 24/7. most middle class types who are on the roads within the city are usually commuting to work and then back from it, through the week, bar weekend/late night showboating. unfortunately, most of the above crowd is opposite. that's how they drive. weaving, cutting across, picking fights.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 12 Nov 2013 07:41

most of the private bus drivers anywhere in india start off as handymen and cleaners....they learn driving during early morning or off hours and then become drivers. no formal safety training and their trainers came up the same way. the owners force them to work 16 hrs a day so by evening they are taking cigs and tea to stay awake. most have back , leg and vision problems apart from blood pressure and other internal issues. meals are hasty tea or rice-sambar affairs at stops during the day.
even the STC drivers have to put in really long hours in tense conditions.

unless this is regulated by the Govt to enforce no more than 8 hrs driving per day things wont improve. but how to do this tracking is open question because people will not obey just a advisory due to cost reasons. even if a section of drivers revolt under a trade union, more non-union warm bodies can always be found to throw at the problem.

the night super bus drivers have the additional burden of driving at high speed at night. during the day they sleep inside the cargo hold of the volvo buses and are sometimes seen cooking food and playing cards inside this cargo area.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby MN Kumar » 12 Nov 2013 20:42

Varoon Shekhar wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Andhra-bus-tragedy-Police-to-conduct-DNA-tests-for-identifying-dead/articleshow/24943993.cms

Horrific and disgusting bus accident kills over 40 people, including 5 techies. BTW, why would a bus catch fire just from hitting a railing of a culvert- did the gas tank strike head on to the railing and catch fire?? Could Volvo India be liable.

These accidents are just ridiculous. Can you imagine this in Canada, Switzerland or Japan, that too over and again? There has to be someone raising an alarm bell, at the highest level, instead of letting this problem slide.


Coming to this thread after a long time. This was indeed a very tragic incident. One of the deceased was a friend who was working at CSC Hyd. Few things I noticed based on the news reports:

- There was only 1 driver as against the regular 2 for overnight journeys.
- He was speeding at around 140KMPH.
- Apparently was in a hurry to reach Hyd before 7.30AM as private buses are not allowed after that. the accident occured at around 5.10AM. Added Later: the bus could have comfortably reached Hyd in another 1.5Hrs.
- The bus hit the culvert wall while trying to overtake a car.
- The driver jumped and ran out from his door in panic forgetting to open the main door which had central locking. The surviving passengers escaped from the same door.
- Only 33 of the total passengers booked advance tickets. Rest of them boarded the bus on the way.
- The bus hit the culvert railing, and the iron rod on the railing broke and caused sparks due to friction. Eyewitnesses claim that the entire bus
- Volvo was claiming that there was no issue with their design and the diesel tank cannot catch fire that easily. Possibility of other causes need to be looked at.

I travel on that route quite often and its one of the best roads I have seen. There are a lot of small culverts on the Kurnool-Jadcherla stretch. The design of these culvert bridges need to be examined. At some places it becomes narrower due to which the drivers need to adjust the vehicle angles coming from the straight stretches.

Most of these buses are owned by influential netas and travel houses. There was a seizing drive for a week and everything became quite again.

Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 12 Nov 2013 20:52

Here is a fuller account. Apparently after the collision the bus driver kept driving dragging the metal behind him with diesel spilling out.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... n-monoxide

Owing to the high speed, the 26-feet-long railing broke into two pieces. While the first half of the railing pierced the bus, the remaining portion was dragged along for 170 feet on the road before the driver saw the fire and stopped the bus.

The first portion of the railing punctured the right side of the diesel tank causing leakage of fuel while the other half caused sparks. Due to the heat generated, the diesel which has a flash point between 60 to 100 degrees centigrade caught fire which quickly reached the second tank on the left side of the bus, the AC and the rear engine.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby MN Kumar » 12 Nov 2013 21:00

Image

You can see the impact on the railing and the missing red rod on top of it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 14 Nov 2013 11:23

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/karnataka-7- ... 2-129.html

7 dead in another volvo bus fire. similar root cause - struck a bridge.

we must change the design of our future bridges to become wider and preserve a shoulder instead of being as wide as just the road or narrower.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 14 Nov 2013 18:32

here is a pic of the mumbai bound bus..burnt down to its skeleton

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 349942.ece

some kind of fire retardation and suppression system like used in military tracked vehicles will need to be installed in the big cargo holds for indian conditions...it carries everything from motorcycles(they say empty the tank but nobody checks) to flammable cargo of all types not just passenger luggage.

probably the older buses with cargo carried on the roof are safer from this issue as burning fuel has nothing to burn below the bus other than the rubber tyres.

secondly how did diesel become so flammable ? dont mil vehicles claim diesel is much safer than petrol powered stuff like tiger tanks?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby manish » 14 Nov 2013 19:56

Singha wrote:here is a pic of the mumbai bound bus..burnt down to its skeleton

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 349942.ece

some kind of fire retardation and suppression system like used in military tracked vehicles will need to be installed in the big cargo holds for indian conditions...it carries everything from motorcycles(they say empty the tank but nobody checks) to flammable cargo of all types not just passenger luggage.

probably the older buses with cargo carried on the roof are safer from this issue as burning fuel has nothing to burn below the bus other than the rubber tyres.

secondly how did diesel become so flammable ? dont mil vehicles claim diesel is much safer than petrol powered stuff like tiger tanks?

The biggest problem is that there is no regulation of what goes into these cargo holds, unlike in other forms of public transport which also carry cargo - e.g. planes, and to a lesser extent, trains.

BTW, National Travels which operated the ill-fated bus is owned by JD(S) MLA Zameer Ahmed Khan. Won't be easy to get to if it turns out to be a case of some lapse on part of the operator.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 14 Nov 2013 21:20

jabbar bhai was briefly arrested from his home town. must be out on bail by now.

no news yet on what happened to the hammers that volvo provides....people who travel on such night supers claim never to have seen any hammers or been told how to operate the emergency exits.

a hull penetration near the front wheel nicely punctures both the fuel tank and then soaks the contents of adjacent cargo hold with the diesel......there are no bulkheads inside the hold to contain anything..its one huge empty space for things to burn in one go.

perhaps this gora design isnt that great for indic conditions just like IA/IAF finds with their own kit sometimes.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 14 Nov 2013 22:51

It is not the diesel alone it is the fiberglass resin. There is probably 2-3 times as much resin as deisel on these buses. Lets wait for the full report to come out.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 15 Nov 2013 09:16

GOI has asked volvo to submit a report and also asked some automotive testing instt to start work on the root causes.

you mean the sides of the bus are made of fiberglass sheets? I can see all the side panels are burnt to nothing with only ribs visible.

give me the old battered STC buses with crumpled tin sheets on the side, no windows at all just holes and sacks of produce on the roof, with a couple goats in the aisle over these sealed death traps. max speed 50kmph onlee.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vasu raya » 16 Nov 2013 20:18

For the new hydrogen powered bus, a TATA-ISRO tech JV, they put the tank on the top of the bus and it has been 'certified' by ISRO for desi road conditions.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 16 Nov 2013 20:43

it seems the 2nd driver who was killed was actually sleeping inside the cargo hold, perhaps with one door wedged a bit open to let air in.
during off times also the cargo hold is a sleeping and cooking place. wouldnt be surprised if they keep sacks of food, kerosene stove or a portable gas cooker in the corner.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby chetak » 16 Nov 2013 22:02

Singha wrote:it seems the 2nd driver who was killed was actually sleeping inside the cargo hold, perhaps with one door wedged a bit open to let air in.
during off times also the cargo hold is a sleeping and cooking place. wouldnt be surprised if they keep sacks of food, kerosene stove or a portable gas cooker in the corner.



Singha ji,

These volvo guys are usually paid well. Don't cook on roadside or in the vehicles and second driver, if provided, generally travels regularly (while on duty) on the seats just behind the driver.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sriman » 15 Dec 2013 12:15

The Hyderabad Volvo was carrying firecrackers. Quelle Surprise!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/v ... 462447.ece

The driver of the ill-fated Hyderabad-bound Volvo bus was overstressed and there were firecrackers inside the vehicle, according to findings of an investigation that probed two recent road mishaps in which 52 persons were killed.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby krishnan » 15 Dec 2013 22:05

i see a karnataka based private travel bus near my office daily, they cook inside the cargo area , even sleep there

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 16 Dec 2013 07:59

thats what I also saw and reported.
probably the drivers and cleaner may belong to the other end of the route and are given no free room to sleep in so they manage inside the cargo hold during the day to save money & time.
even in pvt taxis, the taxi drivers seldom if ever use the daily 250 batta to find themselves a lodge or use the paid dormitory provided by some resorts. they sleep in the vehicle itself! for days on end!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby krishnan » 16 Dec 2013 12:28

why waste money when you have the whole cargo area, sometimes during summer , they just put the A/C on and sleep inside the bus

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby devaraj_d » 24 Dec 2013 23:28

Marten wrote:Can someone explain the differences between Miller, Otto and Atkinson (and derivatives if any)?


Otto cycle--regular 4 cycles

Miller cycle--Intake valve (IV) is closed earlier so that the fresh charge is expanded in the rest of the intake cycle to cool it down. It is very popular in large diesel engines to reduce NOx. Need TCs to compensate for short IV Opening.

Atkinson cycle--Late intake valve closing to allow some of the charge to escape back. This cycle gives the possibility to have an expansion ratio >geometric compression/expansion ratio to allow the piston to extract more energy from the charge thereby increasing fuel efficiency. Therefore, Toyota uses it in their hybrid engines although it reduces engine's power density. Atkinson cycle can also be implemented by other kinematic arrangement compared to the regular cranktrain arrangement.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Paul » 25 Dec 2013 15:40

Has anyone driven or owned a Maruti Ertiga? I would be interested in a review as I am looking to buy one.

TIA.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 25 Dec 2013 16:46

check team bhp forums.


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