Indian Autos Thread

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Nov 2014 10:31

Yes. So Far companies like Ford, VW have not done well in the 23 odd RHD markets except say the UK. These markets have been ruled mostly by the Japanese, having developed cars for their home markets, they probably found it easier to bring in all thier good models unlike American and German makers. . It is only Indian Sub continent, around 15 countries in Eastern and Southern Africa, UK, Aus, NZ, Japan, Malayasia, Thailand, Indonasia which use RHD but probably constitute 25% of the world's population .

Will HK continue to be RHD?

However, Ford is slowly concentrating more on these markets and for first plans to bring the Mustang staing these 23 markets are too important now to ignore.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Nov 2014 05:48

they need to find a replacement for the dated Figo and also add something smaller to build volume.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Nov 2014 09:58

Singha wrote:they need to find a replacement for the dated Figo and also add something smaller to build volume.

They already have, its the new Ka and Sedan which will be the New Figo and Figo sedan in India, 3 cars have been imported from Germany for testing, these will be released from thier new plant at Sanand Gujarat sometime from Feb-15 to Sep-15. This will free up capacity for manufacturing Fiestas at Chennai which they can make only around 300 a month.

The recognize their most precious customers are for the Figo, so they dare not discontinue the model for 6 months, as the resale vale for existing customers will be hit, so that want to continue till their Sanad plant is ready for Figo and Figo sedan.

So even though a large part of factory is blocked for Figo production they will not stop it till the Sanad plant is operational.

People often forget is that the when Mahindra and Ford split, the land meant for Factory expansion was taken by Mahindra and converted to Mahindra City where the likes of most favored IT Vity company have occupied.

Meanwhile GD for your car replacement a few years down the line

Honda Civic Diesel in India for R&D

Honda Cars India is likely to re-launch the Civic sedan in the country, but with diesel engine.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 12 Nov 2014 10:38

For Yagnasri garu, I forgot to mention that Figo Diesel Titanium could be a good option as well unless he drives on bad roads. The laden GC of Figo makes it scrape big speed breakers when loaded. It failed to clear my tests on the dirt tracks near my house.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 12 Nov 2014 10:42

I think i10 or i20 (Auto) is a good option to drive in the city. And it can be customized and loaded to the hilt.

negi · Post by **negi** » 12 Nov 2014 10:48

Figo DIesel imho is the best bang of buck diesel hatch in India, you get Figo DIesel Titanium for same Price as top end Swift Petrol/Polo Petrol . GC of Figo is an issue only on Moon and Bangalore , Mumbai roads are nice so that should not be an issue. In the end it all depends on one's budget and priorities if getting a value for money diesel hatch is one's priority then all other hatches are at least 80k to INR 1 lakh more than Figo however if you want say a more rugged build and better GC get a Punto diesel if you want to get a cuter car to pacify SHQ get a Polo Diesel but then if Polo Diesel is in your wallet range might as well buy an Amaze/i20 diesel.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 12 Nov 2014 11:54

IMHO, Amaze looks like some one chopped its rear, not my type of a car. I like diesel hatches, tight design with good engine/FE. I remember reading in TBHP that Amaze has some sorta water wading problem, where in the water gets in to the engine through air filter intake which is placed low, check that out, not sure of it's a design issue or user issue.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Nov 2014 12:16

there are two small suv expected in india to compete with the duster and ecosport. hyundai has something called ix25 and honda has unveiled a xr-v .. maybe next year it will come, jazz might get relaunched as well.

my next car will not be a sedan of civic size...its just too tough to drive around blr and impossible in parts. its got to be something like this xr-v / duster size.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 12 Nov 2014 12:24

The Fiat Avventura SUV looks really good, it will be in direct competition to Ford.

Fiat Group Automobiles India today launched compact sports utility vehicle Avventura with price ranging from Rs 5.99 lakh to Rs 8.17 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi).The sub-4 meter vehicle would be available in both petrol and diesel powertrains.

The petrol variants powered by a 1.4 litre engine are priced between Rs 5.99 lakh and Rs 7.05 while the diesel variants are priced between Rs 6.89 lakh and Rs 8.17 lakh (all prices ex-showroom Delhi).

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 897438.cms

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-driv ... eview.html

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 12 Nov 2014 13:31

Javee sir
Aventurra is nothing but Punto cross and not a new product like the ecosport. Unlike the Etios cross and the polo cross which have side and bumper cladding + roof rails with the same GC, Fiat at least have raised the GC of the vehicle. Even the 2012 Punto has good GC. Inside the aventurra you will feel a punto.

To be honest, ecosport, duster 2wd are not real SUVs but rather SUV lookalikes.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Nov 2014 15:11

9 days after delivery 250km onwards, record a small scratch on the front bumper

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 12 Nov 2014 16:28

Yes, you are right, it is indeed a modified Punto, but looks like the engine has been tweaked a bit to accommodate to sedentary city driving style. Some one has posted a picture of Palio R or something like that, which looks very similar to Avventura.

Real SUV's are brute, like the old boxy Jeep grand cherokee V8's or even the Mahindra's. I think designer after designer came in and screwed the boxy-ness of these vehicles to make it more palatable to the mainstream.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 12 Nov 2014 19:05

pandyan wrote:there seems to be a new trend of using electric motors to drive the turbo charger. ofcourse, people are depating if this should be called a turbo charger at all.but the promise is nice oomph right from low rpms and eliminate turbo lag completely.

wouldn't it be called a RAM air intake ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Nov 2014 20:44

the aventura rear seat is rather cramped. and as already mentioned its backside is not easy to open...first the wheel swings to the side on a external frame like a door, then the hatch opens up. clear signs of a hacked up job on punto. in a proper design the wheel should be fixed to the back door itself.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Nov 2014 04:30

Javee wrote:IMHO, Amaze looks like some one chopped its rear, not my type of a car.

All cars in that class - Amaze, Swift Dzire, Tata Zest and Hyundai Xcent look like that. It is because that is the only way car companies in India can provide affordable sedans to people. All due to the stupid excise duty structure in India where there is a considerable increase in duty if the car's length exceeds 4 meters. I think Hyundai pulled off the (comparitively) best looking rear end in that segment.

The Amaze's problems are more in the interior quality. Just too bland and feature poor compared to the Zest and Xcent. They'll probably upgrade it this year.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Nov 2014 07:07

The excise duty structure in India, no one has asked Chidambaram the question why 1.2 lit petrol and 1.5 litre diesel. This is what fuelled the Diesel subsidy crisis, since manufacturers could provide better engines Diesel hatch and sedan's while performance petrols were taken off the table.

I think there is a need for differential duty in India but changes are required in the present structure. It should give manufacturers 2 years time to make designs. I propose the length without spare tyre to 4.25 meters and engines to be 1.5 Petrols or 1.5 Diesels.

This will ensure that good designs are available without taking too much parking space and good safe fuel efficient cars.

Unless Maruti publishes the specific High strength lightweight steels or exotic stuff life carbon fiber rather than some vague reference to High tensile steel (probably there are 30 varieties, some have nothing to do with high strength), I feel there some real comprimise in the Ciaz with the Petrol weighing only 1010KG, while being as long and wide as a Scorpio. Something does not add up.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Nov 2014 07:07

The excise duty structure in India, no one has asked Chidambaram the question why 1.2 lit petrol and 1.5 litre diesel. This is what fuelled the Diesel subsidy crisis, since manufacturers could provide better engines Diesel hatch and sedan's while performance petrols were taken off the table.

I think there is a need for differential duty in India but changes are required in the present structure. It should give manufacturers 2 years time to make designs. I propose the length without spare tyre to 4.25 meters and engines to be 1.5 Petrols or 1.5 Diesels.

This will ensure that good designs are available without taking too much parking space and good safe fuel efficient cars.

Unless Maruti publishes the specific High strength lightweight steels or exotic stuff life carbon fiber rather than some vague reference to High tensile steel (probably there are 30 varieties, some have nothing to do with high strength), I feel there some real comprimise in the Ciaz with the Petrol weighing only 1010KG, while being as long and wide as a Scorpio. Something does not add up.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 13 Nov 2014 08:08

Singha wrote:first the wheel swings to the side on a external frame like a door, then the hatch opens up. clear signs of a hacked up job on punto. in a proper design the wheel should be fixed to the back door itself.

Actually, it's a pretty genius way to store the rear wheel. If you fix it on the back door, given the conditions in India, it will start rattling from Day 1. It will also mean that the rear door will need to be reinforced to hold that weight. Avventura has a standard wheel in the back, not the donut/steel framed one. All in all, I think fixing the wheel in the frame itself is a pretty good idea. The interiors are also refreshingly nice for a car in this segment. I think Toyota should be boycotted until they reduce the drabness in their cars.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Nov 2014 09:30

Anther day, I dented my ecosport, small scratch and dent near rear wheel arch. His office garage gate, was trying to accomodate some people waiting on the road near a bus stop due to puddles created by the rain and changed my angle of approach so not horn and inconvenience them

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 13 Nov 2014 11:30

For some reason, a scratch on the new vehicle always happen (drishti/nazar?) I see it has a sign that the vehicle has truly come home. BTW, what color is your vehicle?

My swift windshield developed a crack from a projectile hit spot. The projectile hit the windshield while driving down to Chennai from Bangalore but the crack started almost 3 weeks later. Got it replaced for 5.5k

On the Aventurra, the idea of adding the spare wheel to the chassis to prevent rattle is good but they should have taken care to link the spare wheel holder to the door so that when you open the hatch door in one action instead of the current two.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Nov 2014 11:47

toyota is still selling their innova and people still buy it. telco challenge in that segment aria seems to have fizzled out.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Nov 2014 11:50

My car color is Smoke grey. It happens but one still feels sad.

Regarding Innova, I understand some Travel agency Innovas from 2007-08 period are still running with more than 8 lakh kilometers on the ODO with no major engine work yet.

All Travel agencies are solidly behind Innova.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 13 Nov 2014 11:53

The first month of getting my VW, a bike came and hit the passenger side door when I was turning in to college road resulting in a dent and a scratch. I was furious, but couldn't do anything in the traffic. I thought I will leave it as drishti and left it like that, but SHQ wanted it removed and I used my new insurance to the fullest

I actually wanted to buy Innova when I R2I'd, no other vehicle provides the comfort and reliability of that MUV even with that drab interior. But after I heard its price, I thought it was not worth it, but my relative plonked 17L to buy a brand new one with out flinching his eye, replacing his old 1st gen innova (he got the it for 9L or something new and sold it for ~4L after running it to ~2L kms.) It all comes to individual priority and I guess most look for function over form in that segment.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 13 Nov 2014 12:04

Toyota's engine, transmission, steering, brakes etc. are top draw. The diesel engines are frugal, no turbo lag and high miler to boot. Qualis is still a top draw in the second hand market because of its engine and low TOC. It is ironic that Toyota withdrew the qualis because they did not want to be associated with a mass people mover and replaced with Innova, only for it to be lapped by again by the travel agencies. Innovas bring in the volumes.

However, the reason why I hate Toyota in India is that they dump 3rd grade products (Innova, Etios etc.) which they can't sell elsewhere. Would be interesting to see the Toyota Indian al-khalids undergoing the global NCAP test.

Singha saar, actually the original Aria was a true cross over (4WD, Dual Mass fly wheel) and was actually pitted against the fortuner. TML made a confused product (a SUV type vehicle with a passenger van looks) and rolled it out with bad pricing. The pricing was par of the vehicle of the class but they completely over estimated the Indian market by thinking that people will compare it against the fortuners and Yetis but the looks made people compare it against Innova. Future mark 2 and 3 (2WD with SMF) etc. were made to compete with innova only to fail miserably.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Nov 2014 12:05

meanwhile

Next-generation Ford Figo to reach India in 2015

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Nov 2014 16:10

The new i20 does look very sharp.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Nov 2014 03:40

Aditya_V wrote:The excise duty structure in India, no one has asked Chidambaram the question why 1.2 lit petrol and 1.5 litre diesel. This is what fuelled the Diesel subsidy crisis, since manufacturers could provide better engines Diesel hatch and sedan's while performance petrols were taken off the table.

I think there is a need for differential duty in India but changes are required in the present structure. It should give manufacturers 2 years time to make designs. I propose the length without spare tyre to 4.25 meters and engines to be 1.5 Petrols or 1.5 Diesels.

This will ensure that good designs are available without taking too much parking space and good safe fuel efficient cars.

Unless Maruti publishes the specific High strength lightweight steels or exotic stuff life carbon fiber rather than some vague reference to High tensile steel (probably there are 30 varieties, some have nothing to do with high strength), I feel there some real comprimise in the Ciaz with the Petrol weighing only 1010KG, while being as long and wide as a Scorpio. Something does not add up.

Well, the Ciaz anyway is not in the sub 4 meter segment and does not benefit from the duty structure. So Maruti has no excuse if they have compromised on safety in it. Their main reason for doing so was to be able to get away with a 90bhp motor in a car that size and be able to promise much better mileage than the other cars in the class. People look at interior space, styling, features and mileage when buying a car in India and the Ciaz scores in all respects. Only very few would look at the engine power and torque and even fewer will look at the weight and wonder if there were safety compromises made. So the Ciaz will sell. The other cars in that class like City and Accent are heavier and need much more powerful engines of ~120bhp and give lower mileage as a consequence. The Ciaz is actually larger than the others as well so we can only spoeculate on what djinn magic Maruti has done to make it weigh only 1010kg.

negi · Post by **negi** » 14 Nov 2014 08:02

Squeezing mileage forces manufacturers to compromise on safety in desh; look at the anorexic tires which Honda guys sell City with and if that was not enough all car makers will void your warranty if you go for a higher tire size , that is why people wait for the warranty period to get over before modifying their cars. The life span of components is also reduced on paper for India for instance VW only covers shock absorbers on a new car for just 10,000 km so if your shock absorber fails say in the 5th month of your new car and say you had a monthly running of 2k km you need to pay from your pocket.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Nov 2014 15:01

even for the exact same car like say a corolla altis, the warranty in india would usually be 2 yrs and in massa be 4 yrs. same goes for any consumer durable...manufacturers are getting away easy. I think cheen has started cracking down and forcing them to do == and we should too.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 Nov 2014 15:17

negi wrote:Squeezing mileage forces manufacturers to compromise on safety in desh; look at the anorexic tires which Honda guys sell City with and if that was not enough all car makers will void your warranty if you go for a higher tire size , that is why people wait for the warranty period to get over before modifying their cars. The life span of components is also reduced on paper for India for instance VW only covers shock absorbers on a new car for just 10,000 km so if your shock absorber fails say in the 5th month of your new car and say you had a monthly running of 2k km you need to pay from your pocket.

The City still sells like hot cakes despite the skinny tires. There are safer alternatives available at the same price point although they'll lack some of the features of the City. It's up to the buyer to decide what they want to prioritize. If Honda starts losing business on account of skinny tires or lack of airbags in middle-level variants, they will re-evaluate.

All this manic cost cutting and mileage at any cost behavior is observed across all manufacturers of course. It is a result of the system. First the govt. levies a host of different taxes on the cars raising their prices much above international levels. Then it forces people to pay 10/15 years worth of registration fees at buying time and raises the on-road price even further. Petrol of course has been overpriced for a long time thanks to state taxes which means the oil PSU's don't make money despite the consumers paying through their nose. They really have to untie this gordian knot somehow. A fast growing auto-manufacturing sector can do wonders for the economy.

negi · Post by **negi** » 15 Nov 2014 15:23

Well to be brutally honest in that segment City is the best product ; that iVTEC engine has no competition yes since 20112-13 onwards Honda's panel tolerance have gone for a toss and cars feel lighter but in that 9-12 lakh segment there is no other product which competes with a City in petrol version. Honda knows this that is why they are willing to squeeze as much margin out of it; Civic and Jazz sold in India were much closer to their equivalent Japanese counterparts and that is why they were expensive and hence discontinued after a limited run and this despite both being in pretty decent demand.
Honda has decided to postpone the new Jazz again by a year in India because Mobilio has been a superhit and they are running at full capacity cost wise it makes sense to again extract as much from Mobilio as they can because it shares platform with Brio and Amaze.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 Nov 2014 15:45

^^The 1.6L 123HP engine of the Accent is pretty good as well. NVH levels are better than the City. Not first hand info though. Got the report from my father who test drove both cars recently. The Accent also has decent 195mm tires and they fixed the suspension problems plaguing it in the 2014 version (previous versions had a overly soft setup which led to stability issues). Downside is marginally high fuel consumption and the auto-gearbox being only a 4 speed. The manual one is very smooth however.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Nov 2014 16:08

Nachiket- you mean Verna sold as Accent in States? The only reason it does not sell is because its suspension is too soft and hence tends to bounce around in Highway bumps enough for the driver to nearly loose control, if Hyundai fix the suspension/ handling- it will be a superhit.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 Nov 2014 17:08

Aditya_V wrote:Nachiket- you mean Verna sold as Accent in States? The only reason it does not sell is because its suspension is too soft and hence tends to bounce around in Highway bumps enough for the driver to nearly loose control, if Hyundai fix the suspension/ handling- it will be a superhit.

Yes Verna, sorry. They fixed the suspension in 2014. It's stiffer now.

negi · Post by **negi** » 15 Nov 2014 18:19

Verna's issue is extremely light steering you do not want a car with no steering feedback at 100+ kph speeds ; most of us in India like cars with light steering because unlike EU and US we actually have to turn the wheel by a complete circle quite often on day to day basis , also weaving on a road dodging carts, cows and potholes is easier with a super light steering issue is on a highway you want the steering to be heavier specially if you are doing 100kph+ that is where Hyundai is slightly inferior than a Honda.

On City vs Verna again we Indians are brand conscious Honda has made a mark in last decade or so and Hyundai is catching up a lot of Citys are just sold because of the H badge , you still need a solid product but badge will tip the scale when everything else is equal.

Verna was registering decent sale numbers because of the Diesel option as City only came up with that option this year , competition is pretty even now but City sells more because of brand perception.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Nov 2014 00:17

So I finally plan to buy the next gen Scorpio. News comes in from office, be prepared to shift to BNG in about a year's time :-((. I have settled down in the company, put in the hard work and established a name to the point my manager insisted on having me also move to BNG with him. I dont want to quit this company now and looking to dig in long term.

I cant buy the scorpio now and have to wait to move to BNG next year before I buy it. The hassle of NOC/re-registration and reimbursement from RTO is not something I want to deal with. Sad onleee is the part that the registration costs in BNG are higher than in Chennai :-((. Can I register the car in Hoskote or Mysore, will registration costs be lower there?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Nov 2014 12:31

I think its a KA state tax and does not vary with city or rto.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 16 Nov 2014 13:44

ah, ok thnx.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Nov 2014 09:57

2 weeks of ownership and newest part after 330KM on OD- 57km at delivery must be the 5th gear in the car, got so frustrated slotted 5th in the first stretch I could keep 40kph continuously .

All you Bengalurians and Hyderabadis, Mumbaites and NCR wallahs, I can fairly state Chennai has reached the same level of irritiating traffic combined with poor infrastructure, If you travel 15kph an hour now it is considered good going, thank god for Chennai Bypass road, OMR, Kelambakkam- Vandular road for those who travel 40km from Sirseri/ Pergungudi to Avadi- Ambattur daily.

Sometimes, one gets very selfish and feels that other road users and are sqautters on the road and should all probably stay at home one day to give you free road.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 17 Nov 2014 12:19

takes me good 1 hr to go 14 kms these days. But if i start early takes me just 20 mins