Indian Autos Thread

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Shalav
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Shalav » 25 Dec 2014 02:30

No doubt Negi.

In desh, the ones who can afford the fuel expenses and big displacement engines, let their drivers drive BMW 5/7, Jags and Audi's!

While those who desire and yearn for good cars to drive, are driving the more affordable smaller displacement cars.

:(

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby ArmenT » 25 Dec 2014 10:31

Shalav wrote:If you've driven a petrol Amby and you just have to love big engines. There is no two ways about it. The Amby's engine was slow to rev up and torque was not so hot, but once it got going it kept on going on highways and anywhere. So much so, that Premier Padmini engines felt anemic compared to it.

When I learned to drive, those two cars were about the only options available to normal people. Maruti was still distant dream with 2-3 year waitlists.

Actually, there were a few other options as well (Standard motors, Sipani etc.) and I learned to drive on one of these company's products. Those car models were actually the fastest accelerating cars in India until the Marutis showed up. To be fair though, those cars were probably more common in the South than elsewhere in India, as both companies were based there (I never saw either company's products in Bengal or Assam, for instance)

Shalav wrote:Even the Bajaj Chetak was a 8-10 year waitlist, with immediate delivery only if you paid in Foreign Exchange.

I suppose I got my love of big engines driving a friends dad's Amby Mk4 with a 1.7 litre engine, while I was driving my dad's PP. I always thought to my self then that, if I could afford it I would opt for bigger cars with bigger engines. So I blame the Amby for my big car fetish! :p

Hehe, for a while I thought 1.7 liters was a big engine too, until I hit stateside :).

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Theo_Fidel » 25 Dec 2014 13:02

Yup! I remember the Standard 2000. My uncle had one of those in powder blue. 3-5 km to the liter IIRC. :D And it had the turning radius of a boat. I think fewer than 1000 were made per year. I remember on a drive to Ooty it stalled on a hill and the driver had to back-up and then take a flying start to make it....

WRT Amby, this is the first time I'm hearing someone call it a Big engine!! :) or a big car. Call me conphused. It was a beast of a car, you had to constantly tune the mikuni carburettor at every stop and top up the radiator because it ran so hot. Every Ambassador had a jerrycan with water. When going at 100 kmph max range was 200 km on a full tank.... ...don't ask how I know... :evil: Driving around in it on Ooty roads it would constantly stall on every little hill, in fact there were several routes driver would not go down on cause they could never come back up!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Shalav » 25 Dec 2014 23:09

The Standard 2000 was underpowered with its 2L inline, it was introduced late in the mid-80s after Maruti started to catch up with demand by the mid-80's and the waitlists were reduced to 6 months, about what PP and Amby's had at the time. It was expensive and underpowered. If they had offered it with the 3.5L or the even the 2.3/2.6 options, it would have performed better as luxury car.

WRT the Amby, even today with the vast majority of engines sold in India are between 800 - 1.3L, the Amby's 1.5-1.7L engines will be considered a big engine! Why the "conphusion"?

It certainly had a bigger engine and more passenger carrying capacity than the Standard Triumph or the Standard Gazelle with their 950 cc engines, the PP with 1.1L and the Maruti with its 800 cc engines. It accommodated more passengers than any of these cars, along with their luggage. There are legendary stories of how many passengers and luggage it could accommodate. Every family could relate one, or knew someone who talked about its copious carrying capacity.

Most of India preferred Amby's for long distance taxi's and long road trips. They were everywhere, in the deserts, in the mountains, in the forests and the wide smooth roads of New Delhi, moving the Babucracy around.

The problems you mention could probably be bad maintenance on the Amby's you rode on in Ooty? I can't remember Amby's being so unreliable as you mention driving up and down the mountains while going from the hill stations of Lonawala, or even for that matter doing trips to Mussorie from Dehradun.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rahul M » 08 Jan 2015 20:44

cafe racer aka the continental GT, the most powerful RE to date.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby asgkhan » 11 Jan 2015 13:41

Ajatshatru wrote:Thanks. The choice is between a Continental and Classic Chrome...


Be mindful of the chrome tank. The paint quality is poor. It peels off and obstructs the fuel line. When taking delivery, remove the cap and check for paint peeling off inside.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Jan 2015 13:22

Only an Enflied owner like ASG Khan can give you valuable tips like these.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Yogi_G » 12 Jan 2015 13:39

IIRC, it was quite common to replace the original ambassador engine with a Isuzu one immediatly after purchase. FNG mechanics made good money out of it.

You go to massa and come back and suddenly the Amby looks small.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby asgkhan » 13 Jan 2015 21:08

After 1350 kms of riding here is an honest rider's perspective.

Pros:
Torque - I have overtaken at a low speed with a sudden burst of speed by just twisting the throttle a bit. No hesitation or lugging of the engine.
Stability - Rock solid on the road, even if trucks overtake me, the bike barely flinches.
Comfort - For the rider, the suspension is awesome, I dont feel anything when going on small potholes and bumps.
Range - 20ltrs of tank capacity, I fill it once in fort night, no frequent stoppages at fuel pumps.
Brake - Front brake is awesome, just a little bit of pressure and it stops calmly minus any drama.
Vibrations - butter smooth at 60, shudders at 40-50 kms, but above 60 the bike is humming.

Cons:
Pillion - Sucks for the pilion as the impact gets directly transfered from the butt to the spine. I have had soft padding done, has helped a bit.
Neutral - Easier to find a intelligent paki in pi$$awar than finding neutral. I get neutral when changing to 2nd or 1st, or I get the 1st or 2nd gear when coming to traffic stops. Still unable to figure out how to get it right.
Gear shifts - Hate it, it is spongy and I am not even sure if I have changed it. Hopefully after the 3rd service it should improve.
Rear brake - No bite, no stopping power, beast keeps on rolling despite pumping hard.
Cheap plastics - I paid 2 lacs and all over the bike, it has cheap plastics. I shudder thinking when things will start to crack and break.
Instrument console - Vibrates and shudders and moves like as if it is going to drop off anymoment.
Noise - I get a irritating tick tick sound. But everybody says, it is common for UCE and will go away after 10 k kms.
Front brakes squeal when pressed. Front brake assembly is touching the disc. SVC center monkeys say they need entire day to set it right.

All in all, I am happy with the bike. Everyday the feeling of getting the beast out on the road gives me immense excitement.

Safety gear:
SOL Helmet
Leather gloves
Need to upgrade to armored jacket and gloves.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby asgkhan » 14 Jan 2015 04:27

I have Thunderbird 500cc. I suggest you go for Continental GT. The bike looks fantastic and has premium feel all over it.

But keep in mind that pillion seating is comprised and there is no thump. The engine is free revving and smooth.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 24 Jan 2015 00:08

I saw the jutoob presentation of bajaj pulsar cs400. that is a bike!

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 29 Jan 2015 23:13

Ajatshatru wrote:Bhailog, a pooch...the last time I rode a motorcycle was more than 2 decades back, when in College...but seeing the recent discussion on BR, even I am now tempted to buy a Royal Enfield. For members on this forum who already own a RE, please could you suggest a model of RE? Went to RE's internet site and can see they are selling nearly a dozen different models...not too keen on the "Thunderbird" model (if one has to buy a cruiser, might as well buy a Harley). Please could anyone suggest any another model of RE. Thanks.

Don't wish to pour cold water on your plans but if you are in a city like Bangalore and have not been riding for say last 5 or more years you might not enjoy it anymore , if you have to cross say silk board/kr puram/marathahalli on a daily basis to work you are talking about sitting on your bike for a good 15-20 minutes ingesting fumes and trying to chug along on the 1st gear in bumper to bumper traffic. Mind you there are people who ride these daily to work but they either really love doing this or simply do not have a choice.

Now if this is primarily for your weekend getaways outside the city and you indeed wish to put in ~INR 1.5 lakhs on something not for daily commute then yes RE is a real deal . However continental GT is not for long rides , it's low slung and narrow handle bars would mean you will have to bend your spine and lay low for most of the ride , I mean it is a cafe racer after-all and was made for riding within city limits . Thunderbird is the best long touring bike from RE stable if you want older but classic look then buy a classic . Iiirc Bullet is their entry level range.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 29 Jan 2015 23:30

But then I would precisely ask for go on the bike if you can manage the pollution using some gas masks.. pl remember, sitting in a car does not decrease your ingestion as against on the bike.

The advantage of bike is you can easily maneuver in a crowded place like Bangalore. But what kind of bike is your choice.. as long as you are comfortable in using them, and have fair amount of confidence that you wont put yourself in risk considering a family rest on your income.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 07:09

is the honda CBR 250 a good option for weekend rides? is it light enough not to need very strong upper body to control and park?

I never learnt how to ride a bike or scooter, but its never too late for the next mid life crisis purchase!

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/ ... -fun_3.jpg

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 30 Jan 2015 10:07

^ Start with a Yamaha R15 V2 . It comes in 150cc range engine but it has got enough acceleration to satisfy an enthusiast in desh who wants to ride within speed limits. 4-5 years down the line then you can switch to a Triumph Speed tripple . :mrgreen:

http://www.bikewale.com/triumph-bikes/speedtriple/

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 12:58

I am having a great experience with my(well wife's actually) ecosport..soft steering, nimble size, huge ground clearance, roomy, lots of features...its a great car for indian situation.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jan 2015 13:32

Singha wrote:I am having a great experience with my(well wife's actually) ecosport..soft steering, nimble size, huge ground clearance, roomy, lots of features...its a great car for indian situation.


Same here and except for 0-10Km traffic the ecoboost engine is a hoot to drive with good handling to light and Hydraulically mounted engine.

GD sar you back from driving those exotic V-8's in Massa? Any plans to Turbo charge your civic to a 200 BHP variant in India?

There are huge downsides, I keep a scooty so that SHQ and me can use for local shops and trips in the area. Biggest advantage, you can park litrelly everywhere, biggest disadvantage -safety, there is always some unexpected pothole, oil mud and water on Indian roads which can make you fall off, besides clothes always get a bit dirty.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 30 Jan 2015 14:01

GD what kind of FE numbers are you getting in namma bengaluru ?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 14:26

I get around 15kmpl so far in city per the display. 1.5 ltr petrol (no turbo) and 6 speed dsg transmission. the engine is not punchy thrust like a Mig29 but more slippery like say a JSF with no external store :twisted:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jan 2015 14:28

Boss Singha Ji are you driving off peak times, no way you can get those figures in Bumper to Bumper traffic in any petrol or even many Diesels. Are you travelling on long trips and using NICE road?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 30 Jan 2015 14:39

Well ok so the display on cars gives two FE numbers one average and another instantaneous , so for my case when I start to work the instantaneous figure starts from say about 6km/l mark and by the time I reach office it usually is between 10-13 km/l depending on the kind of traffic I encounter on Marathahalli bridge and old airport road. For my calculations I just take an average by doing (6+12)/2 = 9km/ltr. My commute is ~8.5 km one way.

When I went to Goa via NH4 I could maintain a constant 18km/ltr figure for about 400 kms at a stretch and I was doing 100-110 kph at about 2500-3000 RPM.

GD I guess you are going by instantaneous reading from your display so actual figure would be lower mostly around 10-11 km/ltr I guess. The average FE figure on meter I guess is for entire tank usage so one cannot use it for checking FE on daily basis.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 30 Jan 2015 15:07

yes I figured there some anomaly there. my commute is onlee 6 km round trip for the last 4 yrs now.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jan 2015 15:12

Saar are you reading the Avg kp/h instead of km/l display/. Negi you are talking about Maruti set up which gives only instanteous.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 30 Jan 2015 16:05

^ I do not know about Ford but on my Polo you can toggle between Average and Instantaneous FE , the former will give you average consumption for your trip (so unless you reset your trip meter it will do an average over the entire duration). The Instantaneous reading on the other hand gives you FE figure in real time for it keeps changing every few hundred meters depending on how you drive. So what I do is I take the high and low instantaneous readings and take a mean of the two to get some approximate estimate for my one-way FE.

As per my friend in Massa who was a mechanic in an auto workshop short trips are not good for FE , you basically reach the destination by the time engine gets warm and over a period of time the engine starts burning rich , not sure if this is a technically sound observation.
Last edited by negi on 30 Jan 2015 16:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jan 2015 16:10

In Ford, instantaneous is a through a bar graph in the instrument console, Trip meter toggles- each needs to be reset individually, Distance covered, Avg kp/l, Speed alarm, Avg kp/h, DTE (cant be reset), total odo km. Thats why i suspect GD is reading Avg KpH instead of Avg KPL.

I reset distancce covered, Avg KPL and Avg KPH when my fuel light warning appears.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby kenop » 31 Jan 2015 00:13

negiji
Please share your experience with polo.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 31 Jan 2015 02:53

^ Well for technical details you might want to check teambhp but then those guys are MUTU+British all packed into one, they have at least 10 threads on Polo TSI or GT TDI but afaik not a single decent one on the standard petrol version. Anyways first things first whichever version you buy it is a actually a 2 person car not that the rear room is really bad but the space in front 2 seats is simply huge. Secondly it is a driver's car , it sits low, has nice wide stock tires, decent power on tap even in normal 3 cylinder petrol (my benchmarks are m father's i10 and colleague's 120 petrol) and most importantly because it is wide, low , heavy and awesome suspension(I am not a rash driver but I at times don't slow down as much as I should over speed breakers and despite it's 165mm clearance I have never scrapped the underbody in Blore, yet) it has pretty good road manners , all in all it is a nice car to drive. Having said that if you are buying a car for family use i.e. 4-5 people capacity, FE is a factor and long term ownership costs are more important than say road manners then Polo is not for you. All that heavy metal sheets for chasis and doors and use of thick plastics for interiors makes it a rather heavy car in it's segment so your engine has to put out more more to maintain a decent P:W ratio so FE numbers are not that great , again when it comes to Petrol Germans can never match the refinement and FE of Japanese or Korean engines so my Polo in Bangalore B2B traffic gives me about 10-12 without AC and with AC at lowest level I get just 9km/ltr, on highway I get a constant 16-19 km/ltr depending on how fast I drive. A Swift or i10 will give you at least 1-2 kms more per liter in same conditions.

If you are buying a petrol hatch and Polo highline is in your budget I would suggest check out the i20 elite , drive it and see if you like it because on all other fronts it beats the Polo hands down , it is more spacious, loaded with features and comes with good after sales support from Hyundai. Remember Hyundai's petrol engines are quiet (not as quiet as Honda's but VW's petrol engine sounds like a small diesel mill).

The only reason why someone will buy a VW Polo petrol over 120 elite petrol is because of VW badge , latter was not in market when I bought the Polo else I would bought the i20 elite.

Having said that Polo 1.5 TDI or it's GT versions both TSI and TDI are different cars , they are proper enthusiast's cars and they do not have any competitor as such .

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby asgkhan » 31 Jan 2015 11:02

Ajatshatru wrote:Negi, I am not based in Bangalore. And you are right, will use it primarily for weekend getaways outside the city...

Thanks to the suggestion by ASG Khan (about issue with the chrome model), have ruled that model out...may book Classic 500 or 350 (these two models have some months booking)...


There is a vast difference between 350 and 500 variants.

350
++ves
Good for commute
40+ average
Easy on maintenance

--ves
Once you ride a 500, you get the feeling that you have been cheated out of the awesome torque.

500
++ves
Torque
Power
Feeling of GOD :D

--ves
Average of 25 + kmpl
Higher maintenance cost

Think before you book. If you are looking at weekend rides, go for 500. It will smoke any competition. 350 is a compromise, no matter how you look at it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby asgkhan » 31 Jan 2015 11:03

Singha wrote:is the honda CBR 250 a good option for weekend rides? is it light enough not to need very strong upper body to control and park?

I never learnt how to ride a bike or scooter, but its never too late for the next mid life crisis purchase!

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/ ... -fun_3.jpg


CBR 250 and other sportz bike are not easy on the back. Weight gets transferred to the wrists and its a pain.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rahul M » 31 Jan 2015 11:14

cbr 250 is more of a tourer and doesnt have that aggressive racy posture. unlike say, the R15.
the upcoming pulsar 200ss from bajaj is also more of a tourer while its cousin ktm RC200 is more aggressive.

cbr is not vfm though. it's also on the last phase of its cycle. better to wait a few months for a slew of new bikes that will hit the market.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby kenop » 31 Jan 2015 20:19

Thanks negiji.
I had a test drive this afternoon. I am quite used to the ship-like pitch-yaw feel I get in my 17y old Zen. Huge upgrade it will be.
On the mileage, a lot depends on the traffic conditions. Over here, it is certainly better than Bengaluru.
Maintenance cost is the only concern now.
The target date is still a few months away unless destiny intervenes to advance it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Sudip » 01 Feb 2015 14:54

Tata Indica & Mahindra Bolero chosen amongst 7 worst cars of the world: Car & Driver Magazine

Tata Indica Vista: It’s common practice at cheap-car dealerships to disable the odometer—and therefore the speedometer—so new cars never age, so we’re not sure at what velocity the steering wheel began wobbling in this Tata. Whatever our speed, the brakes on the Indica Vista don’t conspire against you, the cabin is quiet, and the engine could be considered civilized. The plasticky interior isn’t much worse than that of a last-gen Toyota Yaris, save for the persistent glue stench and the grease left on our fingers after adjusting the steering column. The clutch pedal feels as stretchy as string cheese, though, and there’s nothing even close to a discernable engagement point. A key point in the Indica’s favor: Its high ride height is a blessing on South Africa’s potholed rural roads. This one’s basically a real car.


Mahindra Scorpio Pik Up Double Cab: After chatting up a Mahindra salesman in his dead-empty showroom, we figured a quick test drive would be no problem. Sorry, he said, he was too busy being “the only one here.” With his work ethic duly established, we could only perform an informal walk-around of a Scorpio, the pickup that nearly launched in the U.S. during 2011. Now we’re sort of glad it didn’t make the trip to North America. The panel gaps inside and out could accommodate the width of four stacked quarters, the door handles hung loose, and the brush guard looked as if it were welded over a gas grill in some guy’s backyard. And believe us, the boxy, 1980s-style aesthetics that look sort of retro cool in photos are pretty cheesy in person. Mahindra supposedly builds a tough truck, but we’re not sure this model would have found enough buyers here—even at cut-rate prices—to keep it from being swept straight back to India.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2015 15:20

even the new tata zest more or less falls into same template...I never understand why they do not trim and close the gaping panel gaps , same for M&M.

and since the driver and his pax spend 99% of the time inside than admiring the outside, the quality of plastics, switches, handles, upholstery matter a lot more than the outside looks imo. this is where again MUL is barely passable and Tata well below par.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vish_mulay » 01 Feb 2015 15:43

Sudip, i dont believe the the article is true representation of SA car segment. I have been in SA quite regularly for last 7 years and i am seeing more and more of Tata and Mahindra vehicles out there. Tata Indica is quite popular in just graduated high school crowd (brand new 600 R/month, 5 year road assist) and doing reasonable business. Tata trucks (small and mid segment up to 10 t) have captured big market in recent years and giving good competition to many Japanese and European brands. My extended in laws are in trucking and have started seeing many Tata trucks with their fleets. Mahindra is doing roaring business in rural SA. Except the look, a reliable robust Mahindra truck which doesn't quite is quite popular in the farming community. I have seen many white farmers with Mahindra pick ups. Apparently, the mentality is to buy brand new Mahindra cheap, put to vigorous task for 5 years and then sale it for whatever its worth (huge second hand car market). Having said that, Indian car manufactures will get lot of business if there is more reliable after sale service. My in laws only complaint about Tata is the spare parts availability. JMT.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby negi » 02 Feb 2015 10:01

Tata has tried to do some good things like projector headlamps on Zest , the console is really nice and that revotron engine is also good. I saw a few on road last month on my trip to Goa. I think reason why Tata and Mahindra are not investing more on aesthetics and quality is they do not see themselves as capable of competing against likes of Honda/Hyundai/Ford/VW they basically are happy with selling to the crowd which needs cheapest car in terms of initial cost , ownership and fuel consumption; that is why Indicas became a huge hit with taxi owners, for a small hatch it has a decent useful volume and comes with lifetime service package.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 02 Feb 2015 13:38

hyundai moved from a nobody in 1990 to somebody in 2001(10 yr warranty) to a powerful player in 2010.

do you think tata and M&M are on that track? I do not think so.

for that matter even toyota india seems happy to coast on taxi business - the altis is a luxury taxi, the innova is the darling of inter city taxis and the etios is a airport taxi!

honda took a huge beating initially and stopped selling the civic and jazz..but they have wormed back with a new diesel engine, amaze, brio and soon relaunch of jazz and a small suv based on brio platform.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vish_mulay » 02 Feb 2015 14:54

Singha saar, Indian car manufactures are no were near other car makes as far aesthetics or built quality finish is concern. The joke in SA is that Tata is slang for an ugly chick you will do only when desperate and not by choice. SA drivers are speed monsters (had quite a few white knuckled experiences doing more than 220kmh on SA highways, absolute g**d phat pee in pants driving) and Indian Cars cant even manage 120Kmh (official speed limit). Lot of catching to do.
Last edited by vish_mulay on 03 Feb 2015 10:53, edited 1 time in total.

Javee
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Javee » 02 Feb 2015 23:42

Actually Innova is the best people mover in the country (not just for taxis, but even private), they are so damn successful that they are charging 18L for it (it was introduced for 9L IIRC). From a MPV, it has crept in to the entry luxury segment with out any "luxury" offerings and people still buy it because there is no other reliable choice at that price point.

SaiK
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby SaiK » 03 Feb 2015 07:54

re: weight of bikes.. this take of unable to handle I don't understand.. once you are on the move, you don't carry the weight by the rotation.. if you have some momentum to maintain cg, then not much work. it might be only where you have to stop at signals (that might be plenty in bengaluru).,. but then, you have your legs to support.

heavier bikes have side stands.. so no lifting needed. side benefit is you get your muskills toned up a little bit.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Feb 2015 09:14

SaiK - Having owned a bullet, in most office and other parking lots putting side stand is not accepted, you need to put in on the main stand. So it is big pin when parking, doing vegetable grocery shopping etc. Riding the weight is noot much of pain. Once in Hyderabad where I owned the Bullet Bike ran out of Petrol before climbing a slope on Roaad No 36 Jubilee hills, had a hard time pushing it up the slope.

Weight matters


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