Indian Autos Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Feb 2015 12:17

in paris to dakar rally they load the bikes with a lot of fuel and baggage. in soft sand when climbing through dunes they often fall over...and i read its a brutal task to right them again.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 12 Feb 2015 13:09

there is high risk of injury to the back when up righting a fully loaded bike, the rider must take stock of the situation first and then oly attempt lifting the bike. and this should be done in a calm and controlled manner.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 12 Feb 2015 21:26

And thats why people are taught to lift their bikes back up wih their legs. You use your back, you lose it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Feb 2015 09:35

And people think weight of a Bike does not matter- Nothing personal . While there is huge pleasure in riding. BUllet will get your muscles in shape and you will pretty fit.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 13 Feb 2015 11:02

What's with all this rona/dhona about lifting bikes on a centre stand? When I rode the 350 cc Bullet in India, it weighed 163 kgs, and there was no side stand, because it is unstable. I put it on the centre stand every single time and there was no problem. There is a technique for doing it and brute strength is not all that is needed.

But it can be a handful. Once on a dark road after sunset I leaned over for a curve at about 30 kmph, unknown to me the road was wet with a broken water main and I slipped and fell. Fortunately no damage to me other than torn pants and the bike was also OK. Lifted it up and had a heck of a time kick starting it again.

During the entire time that I owned that Bullet, two things preoccupied me. One was the futile effort to try and reduce the tappet noise and the second was experimenting with different carburetors to reduce the bike's fuel consumption.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Feb 2015 11:35

The slick technique with the old 500cc bullet is to bear down with you right foot on the center stand spur as you pull back on the handle bars. This allows you to use torque, momentum and body weight and the beast slots back sweetly. Of course if you have the misfortune of landing on sand all is lost....

My old classic did not have this spur so this is one of 2 changes from the original I made. The other is the heel shifter....

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 13 Feb 2015 11:44

it helps to have a flatter bottom on the stand..so it does not sink on softer mud.

if i am not parking on hard surface, i use some stones to make sure the stand won't sink

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 11:51

my father had the old 350cc bullet in early 80s. it was a bank owned vehicle he got as development officer in psu bank...he used to cover villages in this.
those days the rear mudguard was made of a black painted tin sheet with sharp corners and edges rather than a rubber flap. the sheet got a bit crumpled over time but intact.

one day having lunch, a band party was passing outside so I ran out to watch, then ran back when my mother called
slipped on some water and fell against this mudguard...tin corner went some into my eyebrow and caused profuse bleeding as that area is rich in blood vessels.

mother managed to get our neighbour who had only bsnl phone in locality to call my father at the bank. another uncle a doc also arrived and put in a few stitches.

that white mark is still above my left eyebrow as a scar.

so even though I have never driven a scooter or bike, the "beast" still left its mark on me as The Chosen One.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Feb 2015 12:09

All this talk about Technique is all fine and dandy but in inclines, crowded shopping malls and office parking lots it all goes out of the window, it will cost you time to get in right position, technique to put the stand. Not ideal when you are almost always in a hurry.

negi · Post by **negi** » 13 Feb 2015 13:19

RE was a good bike for it's time , today only romanticists will buy it for be it reliability, economy or even ease of driving modern 150-200 cc bikes are far better bets. The chaps at RE seem to have no inclination for improvement , they should have included at least a fuel gauge on that bike, only thing which has changed is engine and fuel system that too because aluminium blocks and fuel injection is the norm today and can be sourced rather easily. RE is like HMT watches they might not be as accurate as a cheaper quartz watch but will give you that vintage look and feel of a mechanical watch.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 13:37

they might lose bigtime if someone like Hero motors or honda with nationwide chain became interested and make similar priced bikes with more reliable mechanics and smoother engines.

but perhaps that agricultural thump thump under the butt is what fans are looking for. that can be arranged also...honda once added fake air cooling fins to liquid cooled cruiser engines for the look people love.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 13 Feb 2015 15:09

RE always brings the haterz out. The newer UCE version is rock solid. I am enjoying the muted thump, the torque and the satisfaction it brings when rumbling on open roads.

My Thunderbird has
* Dual Disc Brakes
* 20 litres fuel tank - unmatched range
* EFI
* Digital console with funky lights
* Auto cutoff of engine in case it drops
* Thump
* I get all the droolz and the starez from Jap crapsters.

The center stand is easy to put. I dont dispute that, it is just the fear of the bike leaning over and not being able to control it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2015 17:07

Yeah I just pulling leg. The rajdoot 350 did not last long vs RE.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 14 Feb 2015 00:31

The YamDoot 350 was a b!7c# to tune with its dual carbs. But she rode sweeter than the RE 350. I would choose a 30 year old YamDoot 350 over the modernized RE 350 anyday.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 14 Feb 2015 00:53

negi wrote:RE was a good bike for it's time , today only romanticists will buy......The chaps at RE seem to have no inclination for improvement , they should have included at least a fuel gauge on that bike, only thing which has changed is engine and fuel system that too because aluminium blocks and fuel injection is the norm today and can be sourced rather easily. RE is like HMT watches they might not be as accurate as a cheaper quartz watch but will give you that vintage look and feel of a mechanical watch.

I disagree, I have been riding one since 4 years and can say each year there were minor improvements on every model.

I ride a Thunderbird and as agskhan mentioned it has a fuel gauge and his newer version has all the bells and whistles- though many are not of much use.

New showrooms are open on all days of the week and uncles can hang out in their exclusive re clubs.

Ultimately I get more mileage than a 150cc yamaha my friend rides and it keeps me satisfied due to its torque.

For a brand that was on life support it has made a solid comeback and will get better each year.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Feb 2015 08:05

the speed freaks / mid life uncles in my office have either bought CBR/KTM (speed) or RE (weekend cruising, office rides).

the typical 150-200cc bike in india is very devoid of any style, but for the price it gives a great deal of reliability, VFM parts, easy repair, mileage when you consider a decent hybrid bicycle costs some 25-40k and a starter road cycle around 70k.

negi · Post by **negi** » 21 Feb 2015 11:05

chiru wrote: Ultimately I get more mileage than a 150cc yamaha my friend rides and it keeps me satisfied due to its torque.

Sir this must be an exceptional case, my brother has both(RE and a FZ16) leave a RE idle for a month or two and good luck with starting it a Yamaha on the other hand can be left in dust for months without any care and keeps running , mileage claim does not add up, a heavier bike with a bigger engine with a similar tech base can never give better economy it must be because the other bike is entirely kaput or mostly because you might be nursing your bike while the other chap might be redlining his. You love your ride , we all do but a RE giving better mileage than a 150cc Yamaha or Honda in similar conditions is a bit too much to digest (at best it is an exception).

RE has made a comeback of sorts amongst the youth because there is no one else in that segment at that price point and secondly because today's youth is not as price sensitive as say people 10 years back when Pulsars and CBZs started rolling out .

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Feb 2015 14:04

visited my dentist today. he is a old gent who has a merc sedan. he showed me two pairs of CR2032 batteries...each pair would probably be 50 in the local store.

then he showed me the price tag - Rs 1550 for the 4 batts and Merc packages and sells these under its own logo.

they were for the remote control of his car and the remote does not have screws or a sliding panel for users to replace, only the "proper workmen with proper tools" are allowed to open else if things go wrong they will probably charge 10k for a new remote fob lol

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Feb 2015 00:06

this bajaj plusar 400 cs (cruiser sport) is on my radar.. whenever it comes.

now, I need to narrow down on a 4 wheeler onlee. all for desh use onlee.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 01 Mar 2015 08:10

Those idiots at the service station had messed up my bike after first service. The rpm was set at 2k. The gear change resulted in jerks. The bike was roaring angry. Enjoyment level of the bike had come down.

Took the bike to Mehboob garage. Those guys are small setup but worked their magic on the bike and now it is back to it's showroom condition of running. Smooth powerful and a joy to ride.

I have decided to do a monthly inspection of the bike and get the chain cleaned and lubricated, along with oil topup.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 03 Mar 2015 15:07

Which one would the gentlemen here would pick out of - VW Jetta, Cruze, Corolla Altis and Skoda Octavia? All diesel variants, manual, 2015 model. Our old workhorse, a 2009 City is ageing and I can stretch upto mid range diesel variants of the aforementioned sedans. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

member_28640 · Post by **member_28640** » 03 Mar 2015 15:49

Chandragupta wrote:Which one would the gentlemen here would pick out of - VW Jetta, Cruze, Corolla Altis and Skoda Octavia? All diesel variants, manual, 2015 model. Our old workhorse, a 2009 City is ageing and I can stretch upto mid range diesel variants of the aforementioned sedans. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Requirements? Usage? Comfort Level? Jetta and the Oct share the same platform and many components, just built for different folks...
If you would provide some more details I'd be happy to assist

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 03 Mar 2015 15:54

GopiN wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Which one would the gentlemen here would pick out of - VW Jetta, Cruze, Corolla Altis and Skoda Octavia? All diesel variants, manual, 2015 model. Our old workhorse, a 2009 City is ageing and I can stretch upto mid range diesel variants of the aforementioned sedans. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Requirements? Usage? Comfort Level? Jetta and the Oct share the same platform and many components, just built for different folks...
If you would provide some more details I'd be happy to assist

It would be used majorly as a family car when going out, saar. Mostly in the city, with some long drives to nearby holiday destinations thrown in, once in 2 months. It has been a while since we bought a car so Father & I want a good comfortable & safe sedan downwards of 20 Lakh. I had more or less made up my mind on the new Altis, it being a Toyota and all but Jetta seems more packed with a better engine & standard 6 airbags. Then I checked out the Cruze and Octavia as well. Only issue is I'm not sure about the reliability (in terms of maintenance expenses and performance in the late years) of Skoda, Chevrolet & VW. Toyota you can rely on with your eyes closed I've been told.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Mar 2015 16:36

Jetta highline will cost you 20 lakh plus easily if I am not wrong it has a multi link suspension where as Octavia does not have it. Skoda and VW service centers are pakis when compared to their Japanese counterparts.

Just remember one thing if it is a family car then even though Octavia and Jetta might look big to you they are just 4 seaters , all germans have a huge transmission hump in the middle which makes the 5th occupant feel really uncomfortable . I won't be surprised if the rear legroom in Corolla is better than in the Germans.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Mar 2015 16:48

negi wrote:RE was a good bike for it's time , today only romanticists will buy it for be it reliability, economy or even ease of driving modern 150-200 cc bikes are far better bets. The chaps at RE seem to have no inclination for improvement , they should have included at least a fuel gauge on that bike, only thing which has changed is engine and fuel system that too because aluminium blocks and fuel injection is the norm today and can be sourced rather easily. RE is like HMT watches they might not be as accurate as a cheaper quartz watch but will give you that vintage look and feel of a mechanical watch.

Those were the good old days when RE basically sold you the bike and said here is your bunch of spare parts, take it away.

You then found a "bullet specialist" who righted every wrong on the factory built bullet, sorted out the oil leaks and only then did you really have a bullet to ride. Difficult to even find a "bullet specialist" these days.

Their quality dept is much improved now but still far behind industry standards when compared to the japanese bikes.

member_28640 · Post by **member_28640** » 03 Mar 2015 19:02

Chandragupta wrote: It would be used majorly as a family car when going out, saar. Mostly in the city, with some long drives to nearby holiday destinations thrown in, once in 2 months. It has been a while since we bought a car so Father & I want a good comfortable & safe sedan downwards of 20 Lakh. I had more or less made up my mind on the new Altis, it being a Toyota and all but Jetta seems more packed with a better engine & standard 6 airbags. Then I checked out the Cruze and Octavia as well. Only issue is I'm not sure about the reliability (in terms of maintenance expenses and performance in the late years) of Skoda, Chevrolet & VW. Toyota you can rely on with your eyes closed I've been told.

Jetta will do saar (but , please dont call me saar I'm way too young to be called saar by anyone) VW Jetta seems perfect, It has thicker sheet metal,is safer, 6 airbags and a med config diesel will set you back by around 20 L.. Service is expensive, very very expensive as they use the euro spec parts.. But the good news is they are euro spec parts and your trips to the service center will be few (though it will be few in any car you have shortlisted except the cruze imho).. Jetta might be a bit over your budget but I'd say go for it as you get better VFM in the long run...
But if you feel that the Jetta is too expensive the octavia gives you the same platform, with more than half the number of parts being shared by the two cars but would be a bit more ruski compared to the euro-tfta Jetta

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 03 Mar 2015 23:24

Chandragupta wrote: It would be used majorly as a family car when going out, saar. Mostly in the city, with some long drives to nearby holiday destinations thrown in, once in 2 months. It has been a while since we bought a car so Father & I want a good comfortable & safe sedan downwards of 20 Lakh. I had more or less made up my mind on the new Altis, it being a Toyota and all but Jetta seems more packed with a better engine & standard 6 airbags. Then I checked out the Cruze and Octavia as well. Only issue is I'm not sure about the reliability (in terms of maintenance expenses and performance in the late years) of Skoda, Chevrolet & VW. Toyota you can rely on with your eyes closed I've been told.

The chevrolet cruze was earlier the cobalt which was earlier the cavalier in the american market

It was built in the NUMMI plant in California for the US market, which was a joint venture between Chevy and Toyota. Chevy learned a lot from that and has implemented better quality standards throughout now.
So the chevy cruze, I would put to be higher in terms of reliability than the VWs and the Octavias, but much lower than the unquestioned guru of quality, Toyota.
It is also heavier and safer, and will have cheaper spare parts than the Toyota or the VWs.
Treat that model seriously.

Chevy later bought over Daewoo cars. Their Beat, and Aveo and Spark are all Daeweoo (read:shitty) cars. I would not touch them with a ten foot pole.

If you go back in history, you will find that the Japanese started with bikes (Honda) and small cars (Toyota) whereas the Americans started selling a lot of trucks first (Ford)
Hence, even today, you will find that the Japanese do econoboxes really well, whereas the Americans do the larger vehicles well. There's a reason why the Ford truck/minivan that has been released recently has a huge waiting period.

Since the Japanese are highly fuel conscious, they make their chassis lighter and cheaper and more efficient, which , according to Newtons second law of momentum conservation, do worse off in a crash than a truck with a large mass. The American cars are genetically better in this aspect and use more steel and are heavier. You will find that in the cruze.

I personally love driving German cars, but do not like their over-engineered innards which have a lot of break down parts that they can nickel and dime you on. Starting from power windows to n number of little electronic gizmos that cost an arm and a leg.

Toyota Corolla should be a slam dunk choice, no? Or an Innova if you like that one?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2015 23:33

are they going to come out with xuv500 auto trans?

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 05 Mar 2015 06:06

chetak wrote: Their quality dept is much improved now but still far behind industry standards when compared to the japanese bikes.

Issues with new bikes
* Pathetic electricals, wires hanging all over the bike.
* Quality of wiring is suspect
* Ticking sound
* Gizmos which do not work as advertized.

But the 'dug-dug-dug' sound overcomes them all.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 05 Mar 2015 06:13

they make their chassis lighter and cheaper and more efficient, which , according to Newtons second law of momentum conservation, do worse off in a crash than a truck with a large mass. The American cars are genetically better in this aspect and use more steel and are heavier.

- a car's safety is not dependent on how heavy it is.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Mar 2015 08:46

vehicle safety as two main factor
- all aspect impact crumple zone (that crumples only within that zone and not any further on any impact)
- internal impact resistant zone (on impact or static padding) that prevents injury if you are not belted and impacting inside.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 07 Mar 2015 15:47

I am seeing lotsa doods wearing imported helmets and kevlar jackets. Saw one on a KTM with Spartan jacket and LS2 helmet. Good trend seeing how crazier the traffic is getting day by day.

There is a shop in HSR layout, Lets gear up, its stuffed with all the dreamy things a biker would need. I spent hours going through the gear there. The owners are bikers themselves, very knowledgeable and helpful in choosing the right gear.

I am planning to pick up some armored gloves and Spartan jacket this month.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 09 Mar 2015 07:43

Did test drives of Altis, Jetta and Octavia diesel manuals. The VW is easily the best out of them with loaded features, space, drive and ride quality and a body built like a beast. The Altis I found very sluggish and unimpressive, though it looks really smart from the outside and Octavia is horribly over priced, I mean 20L for a car that used to be at 11-13L not so long ago? Same thing with Altis too, a decent diesel manual variant will put you back by around 18L, which it hardly looks like. Only thing I'm concerned about Jetta is the maintenance and availability of spare parts, hope that will not be too much of a headache!

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 09 Mar 2015 09:58

^^ IIRC Indian Octavia and Jetta sharing the same platform inside like Rapid/vento, superb/passart and is a repositioned vehicle?

My friend has a passat, spare parts are not an issue but he spends Rs 35000 odd on each of his 15K service. VW treats him well but they seems to charge a super premium on their branded parts while the OEM one with out the VW logo is much cheaper. A Mud flap costs Rs 8000 odd as they say it is imported. Altis will definitely be cheaper to maintain with very high MTBF of parts.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 09 Mar 2015 12:45

Chandragupta the Altis Diesel with its 1.4 lt 84BHP diesel is heavily under powered for the category. Only reason Toyota prices it so high is because the Petrols deserve a 17 lac value and in this country Diesels are automatically priced 1 lac above. I would even consider the Altis Diesel. VW only downside is cost of parts.

If dont mind compare a Petrol Altis VS Diesel 2.0 Jetta. I think there should be a 3-3.5 lac purchase price difference. See whether you will recover the difference within 3-4 years.

You can also consider some of the SUV's for the Budget, Mahindra XUV 500 or Duster AWD for that budget or Renault Fleunce.

negi · Post by **negi** » 09 Mar 2015 14:11

All depends on the amount of disposable income , if one is ok with a worse case scenario involving car being a PITA after say 3-4 years of use and is ready to buy another one then one can buy a VW or best buy an extended warranty but that will not cover suspension or even transmission only engine and some core modules are covered which seldom go kaput. Painting a VW Polo front bumper alone is 8k INR clutch plate alone is around INR 20 k same thing for even a Honda city is around 10-12K INR. That is the premium you should be willing to pay.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 10 Mar 2015 02:59

Negi-ji, but do clutch plates really need replacements that frequently? I would guess they last a long time. How has your experience been, w.r.t. to service? That is one big factor in deciding on a car, and their levels vary across countries.

Let me share my experience with a VW in khanland: I had owned a 15 year old ('99) made-in-Germany Passat for the past 7 years. When I bought it right after grad school, when asking the dealer if the car will be reliable (it was 9 years old, with 130K miles under the hood), his answer was: it was not an American car, and the car will run for a very long time. And my experience sort of bore out what he said: I had no problems other than the odd oil filter/service, and replacing the timing belt at ~140K miles (2nd time in the history of the car). Other regular maintenance was changing tyres when they went bald, and fixed the brake pads once in 2008. They were sort of due for replacement again last year, but had decided to sell/donate the car, so gave it a pass. Finally donated the car at 165K miles last year. Towards the end, the suspension started making a noise/creaking a bit on rough roads, and steering needed some fixes, but at the ripe old age of 15, that's expected I suppose. But absolutely zero issues with engine, clutch, transmission, etc.

Yes, while the maintenance was not much, the parts were expensive. One must keep that in mind. I don't know what VW service offers in India, I think negi-saar is better placed to answer that. I just wanted to give the perspective of a satisfied ex-owner of a VW.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Mar 2015 04:03

Dunno about the VWs sold in India but VW build quality of cars sold in massa are paki. For reliability best to stick to Japanese brands. Germanics are typically much more unreliable.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 10 Mar 2015 04:06

Sorry saar, don't agree. Pliss to see my above post. Have been owning Germanics for the past 8 years, no issues with reliability.

Are you by any chance referring to Germanics assembled in the US? Both my cars were assembled in Germany, maybe there's a difference.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Mar 2015 21:51

I had a Honda Civic in 2000, while some of my friends bought VW Jettas & Passats 2000 model new. Our cars did similar mileage, and after 10 years my Civic was still running strong with just regular maintenance. The VWs had so many niggling issues that my friends sold off their cars and bought different ones, not VWs! One of my friend who bought an Accord too had trouble-free ownership and sold his car recently.