Indian Autos Thread

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 29 Sep 2009 10:18

I wouldn't write off the middlemen so. If there is money to be made in volumes, they sure will play the game of low margins IMO.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby ArmenT » 29 Sep 2009 20:59

Neshant wrote:Anyway I don't want to hijack this thread. I got to say that the Nano really did Indians around the world proud. Its going to be launched in Europe soon so if you live there and you are planning a car purchase, give it some consideration.

I've heard Tata will launch it in North America in 2013.

Now watch how all kinds of middle men tack on thousands of dollars in fees, commissions and other useless stuff and make an affordable car unaffordable. Tata should consider selling it off a website rather than a showroom to eliminate middle men and pass on the savings.

Speaking of middlemen, I hope Tata learned from the CityRover debacle. It was basically a repackaged Tata Indica sold by Rover in the UK. Problem was that Rover was buying the car for around 3000 pounds from Tata and then selling it for over 7000 pounds. With the full options package (A/C, power steering, electric windows), CityRover cost more than the Fiat Panda, its main rival, which had these features included. Note that if Tata was selling the car in the UK directly, they could have sold it for 3000 pounds and made a profit (manufacturing cost was around 2000 pounds). It was not a bad car when it came to power and space, but the ride and finish were not comparable to the Fiat Panda, which is understandable since the CityRover is a much cheaper car. The problem was that:

1. Rover was marking up the price of the CityRover so much that it made more sense to buy the Panda instead.
2. Rover's service dept. was not good either.

Result: Tata got a bad name in the UK thanks to Rover's efforts.

If they'd sold the car for 3000-4000 pounds instead of 7000-8000 pounds, the buyers and reviewers would have been much more willing to deal with its defects (hard ride, cheap seats and finish) and complimented the car's plus points instead (most powerful engine in its class, largest interior space, reliability). But at the price that Rover was asking, it wasn't worth it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby nikhil_p » 30 Sep 2009 01:26

Bought a Hero Honda Hunk...fondly named Triple H (after that WWF wrestler) by my friends, It is a hell of a bike...already run 75 kms...still running it in...pulls effortlessly...
Why dont we have a My Vehicle Nukkad thread?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rishirishi » 30 Sep 2009 04:26

ArmenT wrote:
Neshant wrote:Anyway I don't want to hijack this thread. I got to say that the Nano really did Indians around the world proud. Its going to be launched in Europe soon so if you live there and you are planning a car purchase, give it some consideration.

I've heard Tata will launch it in North America in 2013.

Now watch how all kinds of middle men tack on thousands of dollars in fees, commissions and other useless stuff and make an affordable car unaffordable. Tata should consider selling it off a website rather than a showroom to eliminate middle men and pass on the savings.

Speaking of middlemen, I hope Tata learned from the CityRover debacle. It was basically a repackaged Tata Indica sold by Rover in the UK. Problem was that Rover was buying the car for around 3000 pounds from Tata and then selling it for over 7000 pounds. With the full options package (A/C, power steering, electric windows), CityRover cost more than the Fiat Panda, its main rival, which had these features included. Note that if Tata was selling the car in the UK directly, they could have sold it for 3000 pounds and made a profit (manufacturing cost was around 2000 pounds). It was not a bad car when it came to power and space, but the ride and finish were not comparable to the Fiat Panda, which is understandable since the CityRover is a much cheaper car. The problem was that:

1. Rover was marking up the price of the CityRover so much that it made more sense to buy the Panda instead.
2. Rover's service dept. was not good either.

Result: Tata got a bad name in the UK thanks to Rover's efforts.

If they'd sold the car for 3000-4000 pounds instead of 7000-8000 pounds, the buyers and reviewers would have been much more willing to deal with its defects (hard ride, cheap seats and finish) and complimented the car's plus points instead (most powerful engine in its class, largest interior space, reliability). But at the price that Rover was asking, it wasn't worth it.


There is also marketing costs, hence Tatas could not have sold it for 3000 pounds. But even at say 5000 pounds the car would have lost out, because the Uk market is not that price sensitive. To be frank, I think the Indicas refinement and handling does not compare to the other cars. Just look in India. Mostly Taxidrivers tend to choose Indica.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Suraj » 30 Sep 2009 05:12

I don't see anything particularly poor about the Indica's refinement compared to other cars in its class in India, and the argument that it's presumed lack of refinement leads to it being used for taxi's isn't really valid. It comes in multiple trims anyway. Even Mercedes sedans are used as taxis in various places.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 30 Sep 2009 06:14

Indicas are taxi because it makes economic sense, nothing else.

Yes, the first two generations of Indicas were a bit behind in the refinement part, but have you looked at the latest series Vista? As good as any other car in that class, only cheaper.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby KarthikSan » 30 Sep 2009 07:31

Rishirishi wrote:There is also marketing costs, hence Tatas could not have sold it for 3000 pounds. But even at say 5000 pounds the car would have lost out, because the Uk market is not that price sensitive. To be frank, I think the Indicas refinement and handling does not compare to the other cars. Just look in India. Mostly Taxidrivers tend to choose Indica.


Taxi drivers choose Indica because there is an Indicab version which is cheaper and sold only for taxis much like the fleet cars of Ford/Chrysler/Chevy.

My dad has a 2006 Indica V2 DLS which I think is the slightly better than the barebones version. It is pretty refined compared to some of the junk the Japanese/Koreans and even the TFTA Italians throw at the world. My cousin's Palio is a money pit for example. I don't know what other cars you are comparing the Indica to. Mercs and Beemers?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 30 Sep 2009 18:26

Rishirishi wrote:To be frank, I think the Indicas refinement and handling does not compare to the other cars. Just look in India. Mostly Taxidrivers tend to choose Indica.


The fact that Taxis chose Indica is a credit to the car, since it means that its reliability, ruggedness, ability to take punishment from poor quality roads/adulterated fuel is second to none.

Also the rear-seat comfort and legroom of Indica is completely unmatched in the hatchback segment, its even more comfortable for long rides than Innovas.

I agree that the UK fiasco was the fault of Rover, trying to pull of a scam in an ultra competitive market.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Ameet » 05 Oct 2009 11:22

Compact Pickups on the way from India

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... etter-news

Truck buyers are renowned for their brand loyalty and willingness to disparage other makes.

With that in mind, do the little pickups from India with a name few will have ever heard — Mahindra — stand a chance?

Once the trucks go on sale next year, Mahindra will have the only diesel in its class and offer a truly compact truck design amid an admittedly stagnant segment.

Careful pricing and attention to quality will be essential to persuade U.S. customers to try an unknown truck, said Jesse Toprak, vice president of industry analysis at Truecar, an auto news and pricing Web site.

Mahindra “is actually a powerhouse in India,” Toprak said. Here, “consumers don't have an image of the brand.”

Turbo diesel engines that deliver fuel economy and power are “one of the directions of the future,” said Dick Swope, president and chief executive of the Swope Auto Group in Louisville.

The group plans to open a Mahindra dealership early next year. Swope wouldn't say where Mahindra trucks will be sold, but Mahindra spokesman Mike Geylin said they don't take up much room or require much investment from new dealers.

“We are looking for 900 square feet, minimum, in the showroom and a technician in the back,” Geylin said.


On the heels of shedding both the Pontiac and Saturn brands because of General Motors' financial woes in the past year, Swope said taking part in the Mahindra expansion is a natural move for the group.

“Our strategy has always been to look for opportunities,” he said in an interview.

The two-door TR20 and the four-door TR40 pickup trucks, which are undergoing collision testing now by the U.S. government, will be the first Mahindra vehicles sold at more than 300 U.S. dealers early next year, Geylin said.

The Scorpio, a sport utility vehicle, will follow by late 2010 or early 2011, he added.

Imported from Nashik, India, and priced at $20,000 and up, Mahindra compact pickups average close to 30 miles per gallon overall, Geylin said.

Mahindra is targeting the compact pickup truck class dominated by the Toyota Tacoma, followed by the Ford Ranger, the Nissan Frontier and Chevrolet Colorado. Compact pickup trucks account for roughly 5 percent of all U.S. vehicle purchases.


Since 2007, compact pickups consistently have accounted for about 20 percent of the overall truck market.

“We are going after small fleets, contractors, lawn-care companies, people that tow boats, dirt bikes,” Geylin said. “People that use vehicles for schlepping, that pile up mileage and appreciate fuel economy.”

Mahindra aims to sell 45,000 trucks in its first year in the U.S. market.

Paired against established players in the compact truck sector, that is an ambitious goal.

So far this year, Toyota has sold about 86,000 Tacomas, a 41 percent share of the 212,000 U.S. compact truck sales. Ford's Ranger holds the No. 2 spot of 20 percent, or roughly 42,000 sales.


“To come in here and say you are going to be as solid as one of the major players is probably not realistic,” Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, the auto news Web site, said Friday.

But the Ranger has not been updated in at least a decade, making it the oldest truck in the compact pickup segment.


Ford's diesel plans are focused on bigger trucks, specifically the F-Series Super Duty assembled at the Kentucky Truck Plant in Louisville, Ford spokeswoman Anne Marie Gattari said. The first Ford-designed and -built diesel engine will be in the 2011 F-Series Super Duty. “The diesel discussion for us right now is all around Super Duty,” she said.

Other competitors like the Tacoma and Dodge Durango have ballooned in size and capacity in recent years.

The U.S. sales outlook for both diesel engines and fuel-efficient but still powerful compact pickup trucks “is bullish,” Toprak said.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rishirishi » 07 Oct 2009 02:22

KarthikSan wrote:
Rishirishi wrote:There is also marketing costs, hence Tatas could not have sold it for 3000 pounds. But even at say 5000 pounds the car would have lost out, because the Uk market is not that price sensitive. To be frank, I think the Indicas refinement and handling does not compare to the other cars. Just look in India. Mostly Taxidrivers tend to choose Indica.


Taxi drivers choose Indica because there is an Indicab version which is cheaper and sold only for taxis much like the fleet cars of Ford/Chrysler/Chevy.

My dad has a 2006 Indica V2 DLS which I think is the slightly better than the barebones version. It is pretty refined compared to some of the junk the Japanese/Koreans and even the TFTA Italians throw at the world. My cousin's Palio is a money pit for example. I don't know what other cars you are comparing the Indica to. Mercs and Beemers?
¨

I have not tried the Vista, and the latest version of Indica. But I have tried an older version and the driving as well as handling of the car is like 15-20 years behind the latest stuff. I am comparing with cars like Santro. But it is a solid and strong car. No doubt about that.
If Indica did have the same driving and handling as the koreans and Jap cars, then it would have had a much much greater market share. Rover City (Indica) failed becasue it was not competable in driving and feel.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 07 Oct 2009 08:19

toyota and honda seem to have a full range of cars in ASEAN unlike india.

toyota vios - honda city sized
toyota avanza - minivan honda city size
toyota picnic - a bigger van but smaller than innova, yet more modern (no truck axle it looked like)
another bigger toyota van than innova (like a maxicab size)
honda jazz is just now starting in india
honda stream - a accord sized station wagon

why are they not interested in taking on suzuki and hyundai seriously in the 4-8L segment
and also putting in multiple vehicles of different types to suit people ?

even the malaysia proton has a pretty wide range of sedans and suvs.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vina » 07 Oct 2009 08:26

Singha wrote:why are they not interested in taking on suzuki and hyundai seriously in the 4-8L segment
and also putting in multiple vehicles of different types to suit people ?

even the malaysia proton has a pretty wide range of sedans and suvs.


Coz of fundamental economics. They wont be able to price it at 4 - 8L, that is why. Suzuki's plants are nearly fully paid for, their costs for adding new models are marginal costs over existing base and plus they have the volumes to spread costs over.

For new entrant, they will have the recover the investments over fewer models and smaller volumes. Hence going head to head against incumbent will be a very expensive exercise and break even will stretch into nearly a decade or more. That is why it is easier to get into the premium segment where margins are higher and volumes lower and you can set up a small(er) plant and lower investment and try to break even in a shorter period.

Unless Honda and Toyota (like Ford and GM did and are now introducing small cars) are prepared to absorb losses in India for close to 10 years, that wont happen. Good news is they seem to have realized that small cars/mass market is indeed the place to be in India, if you want to survive over the long term. And hence news of India specific /take to global models being developed and investments in plants.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dileep » 07 Oct 2009 11:30

Tata is launching the sedan version of Vista. It is named Manza. Launch is on 14th Oct, as per TBHP.

Teaser Site http://indulgeinmanza.com/

IMHO, with vista, Tata has 'arrived', and there is nothing seriously lacking in their products anymore.

Good luck Tata.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 07 Oct 2009 12:17

imho boxy minivans and station wagon should be good sellers in India due to more cargo and people cramming room. this segment has the marina only for now. the innova has a truck rear axle and too high off the ground as befits a truck.

a civic or city station wagon would be great

we had to wait for a marina meru cabs in BIAL recently - it took one big suitcase, 2 smaller but expanded suitcases, a large hedgren bag, 3 large cabin baggage , one kids back with no complaints all in the back. and then 3 adults and 1 kid in the seats. a Logan would never manage it.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby vina » 07 Oct 2009 12:52

a civic or city station wagon would be great


Gotcha!. What you really are looking for is the Tata Xover (cross over minivan), that is based on the car (new indica) platform and not a truck platform like the Innova.

Ah, minivan and kids. What else is missing, a shrink ? Welcome to the middle ages uncle :mrgreen: :mrgreen: !

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 07 Oct 2009 14:03

a fast balding head is also there.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 07 Oct 2009 23:12

Dileep wrote:Tata is launching the sedan version of Vista. It is named Manza. Launch is on 14th Oct, as per TBHP.

Teaser Site http://indulgeinmanza.com/

IMHO, with vista, Tata has 'arrived', and there is nothing seriously lacking in their products anymore.

Good luck Tata.



Car looks really good:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... za-12.html

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Neshant » 08 Oct 2009 14:08

Tata better get a move on it.

----------------

SKorea targets world electric car market

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/091008/b ... o_electric

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Rishirishi » 08 Oct 2009 15:54

vina wrote:
Singha wrote:why are they not interested in taking on suzuki and hyundai seriously in the 4-8L segment
and also putting in multiple vehicles of different types to suit people ?

even the malaysia proton has a pretty wide range of sedans and suvs.


Coz of fundamental economics. They wont be able to price it at 4 - 8L, that is why. Suzuki's plants are nearly fully paid for, their costs for adding new models are marginal costs over existing base and plus they have the volumes to spread costs over.

For new entrant, they will have the recover the investments over fewer models and smaller volumes. Hence going head to head against incumbent will be a very expensive exercise and break even will stretch into nearly a decade or more. That is why it is easier to get into the premium segment where margins are higher and volumes lower and you can set up a small(er) plant and lower investment and try to break even in a shorter period.

Unless Honda and Toyota (like Ford and GM did and are now introducing small cars) are prepared to absorb losses in India for close to 10 years, that wont happen. Good news is they seem to have realized that small cars/mass market is indeed the place to be in India, if you want to survive over the long term. And hence news of India specific /take to global models being developed and investments in plants.



Appart from that, who is going to pay 7-8 lakcs for a TATA? The foregin manufacturars have an advantage that they can develop a car and sell it to the whole vorld. Tata must be able to sell and make money in India. I feel that the GOI must show some partiallity for the Indian manufacturars and give them a developement incentive/tax relief so that they can develop new tech. That is how the koreans became world leaders.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby manish » 08 Oct 2009 18:02

After the UK Govt. played hardball over funding JLR, Tata has gone ahead and secured a 500 million pound credit line from a bunch of banks. The biggest lender was none other than SBI with 175 million while Bank of Baroda too chipped in along with StanChart and a bunch of others.
Jaguar Land Rover secures finance
Jaguar Land Rover said yesterday that it had secured a £175m loan from the State Bank of India and had lined up a total of £500m of new financing facilities so far this year.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby VikB » 09 Oct 2009 12:02

ArmenT wrote:
Neshant wrote:...

Now watch how all kinds of middle men tack on thousands of dollars in fees, commissions and other useless stuff and make an affordable car unaffordable. Tata should consider selling it off a website rather than a showroom to eliminate middle men and pass on the savings.

Speaking of middlemen, I hope Tata learned from the CityRover debacle. It was basically a repackaged Tata Indica sold by Rover in the UK. Problem was that Rover was buying the car for around 3000 pounds from Tata and then selling it for over 7000 pounds. With the full options package (A/C, power steering, electric windows), CityRover cost more than the Fiat Panda, its main rival, which had these features included. Note that if Tata was selling the car in the UK directly, they could have sold it for 3000 pounds and made a profit (manufacturing cost was around 2000 pounds). It was not a bad car when it came to power and space, but the ride and finish were not comparable to the Fiat Panda, which is understandable since the CityRover is a much cheaper car. The problem was that:

1. Rover was marking up the price of the CityRover so much that it made more sense to buy the Panda instead.
2. Rover's service dept. was not good either.

Result: Tata got a bad name in the UK thanks to Rover's efforts.

If they'd sold the car for 3000-4000 pounds instead of 7000-8000 pounds, the buyers and reviewers would have been much more willing to deal with its defects (hard ride, cheap seats and finish) and complimented the car's plus points instead (most powerful engine in its class, largest interior space, reliability). But at the price that Rover was asking, it wasn't worth it.

Withouth wanting any argument, just a postage stamp back calculation - cost of indica at 3000 pound = Rs 210,000 (1pound=70 Rs say) USD 500 per car cost of shipping. plys 120-130% tax for importing a car in europe. sales and marketing expenses (8% by law) - does not stack upto Tatas being able to sell the car at 3000 pounds even if they wud have wanted to.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby ArmenT » 09 Oct 2009 19:46

The 3000 pound price included Tata's profit and shipping to Europe. It only cost Tata around 1500-2000 pounds to manufacture the car[1]. Also Rover started to offer the car with more equipment as standard the next year and also sliced 1000 pounds off the price, which meant they were overcharging originally. By then it was too late for them though.

Tata's mistake was that they were only concerned about making a profit when selling the car to Rover. They were not concerned with how Rover marketed the car and how much Rover was selling the car for. The fact that Rover could offer the car with more equipment and still drop the price by 1000 pounds the next year proves that they were overcharging for it in the first place.

[1] This article says it was rumored to cost Tata between 900 - 2000 pounds to make. I heard 1500-2000 elsewhere.

This quote from the above article says it best:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the CityRover ended up failing because MG Rover didn't know how to handle it. Its initial launch price was too high, there was no local input of any significance, and its 'budget car' origins were all to plain to see. Buyers are a sophisticated lot, and when they saw the CityRover, they saw a case of subterfuge by a greedy and somewhat arrogant company.

However, it could have been so much different. Fundamentally, the TATA Indica is a good car - roomy, quick and stylish - and had MG Rover played to these strengths, and added a bargain list price into the deal, it would have flown out of the showrooms. As it was, it was overpriced in relation to competent new rivals such as the Fiat Panda and Kia Picanto, and buyers decided to stay away in huge numbers. In truth, perception did lag behind reality - the CityRover was not the terrible car some members of the media suggested - but with its reputation in tatters thanks to the botched launch and that pricing policy, it was never going to meet its sales targets.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby rahulm » 10 Oct 2009 03:28

For a company of TATA's calibre their past foray's into developed markets seem to have been half hearted.

A few years ago, TATA introduced their 207 Ute (Pick up) into the Australian market with no branding, marketing or image building. Basically, they appointed a few dealers who put up insipid banners with "TATA" in red letters on a white back ground.

I suspect TATA was only interested in selling to the dealers and left the dealers to their own imagination on branding and selling the 207.Needless to say, the strategy got nowhere, the banners have gone and I can't see any dealers selling TATA, at least in Sydney.

Worse, the brand got a bad name which TATA will have to work hard at re-building if and when it decides to re-enter the market here.

The thinking seems to be to sell a product and not a brand. Most people buy brands and some even become prestigious.

On the other hand, the Mahindra strategy in the US is more comprehensive but can't say I have seen too much different than TATA in Oz.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby VikB » 13 Oct 2009 18:21

ArmenT wrote:... The fact that Rover could offer the car with more equipment and still drop the price by 1000 pounds the next year proves that they were overcharging for it in the first place...



Not necessarily the right reasoning.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Dilbu » 13 Oct 2009 20:42

Indian car exports surge 36 pc in first half of 2009-10
NEW DELHI: Car exports from India in the first half of this fiscal jumped by 35.73 per cent as major manufacturers like Hyundai Motor India and Maruti Suzuki cashed in on scrappage incentives provided in Europe, despite other segments of the auto industry witnessing decline.

According to Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers Association (SIAM), car exports during April-September stood at 2,10,088 units as against 1,54,783 units in the year-ago period.

According to SIAM's latest data, the overall vehicle exports from India grew by 4.41 per cent during the first half of this fiscal at 8,08,455 units as against 7,74,302 units during the same period of last fiscal.

All other segments of the industry, however, registered decline in overseas sales in April-September period. During the period, motorcycle exports were down marginally at 4,97,611 units compared with 5,02,031 units.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby manish » 13 Oct 2009 20:54

The Tata Indigo Manza official website and brochure are up. (via Team BHP):
Website
Indigo Manza Brochure

Seems to me like it is a definite step up from the earlier Indigo. Good going by Tata.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby manish » 13 Oct 2009 21:04

pandyan wrote:http://www.cars.tatamotors.com/test/beta/car_config.html

"Comming Soon" :rotfl:


I hope not prematurely :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 13 Oct 2009 21:36

pandyan wrote:http://www.cars.tatamotors.com/test/beta/car_config.html

"Comming Soon" :rotfl:

lots of broken/misspelled words...


Dude, the car is not yet lunched, the launch date is 14th October. The website wasn't up a few hours ago, they are just making it up. So it is quite understandable if not all the links are working.

The only reason people know about the site and are accessing it is because of the folks at TBHP who are car-crazy and go berserk trying to find out details of the car before it is released. Somebody posted a link that threw a "page not found" error earlier today, and people have been continuously refreshing it till they could see some output. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby bart » 13 Oct 2009 22:31

pandyan wrote:"Coming Soon" is okay...however..."Comming soon" is not. I was highlighting spelling mistakes/incomplete words and so forth.

Tata needs to ensure their public sites are crisp and don't have obvious spelling mistakes.


LOL, I just got the joke. Tube-light took some time to come on I guess. :lol:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby kmkraoind » 15 Oct 2009 16:50

Tata Motors launches spruced-up sedan

Image

The fit and finish seems that Tata have come up to age. May be it will not take more than a decade before Tata becomes a respectable brand worldwide.

Raju

Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Raju » 15 Oct 2009 18:24

the car seems too narrow to carry that kind of design.
always hoped that the tata's got their design to be a bit more appealing.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Singha » 15 Oct 2009 18:27

could be a photo angle issue. if its as wide as Indigo, should be ok.

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Audi Q5

Postby VKumar » 15 Oct 2009 22:35

Has anyone used the Audi Q5 especially the 2.0 L petrol, in India or elsewhere? I would appreciate feedback.

Anyone used the Q5 2010 version? How is it superior to the 2009 version?

Any idea which version is to be built in India in 2010?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Chinmayanand » 16 Oct 2009 03:18

Tata Indigo Manza : Maan gaya bhai,... awesome car for that price

I already have Indigo LS 2006 model.That car has problem with its fanbelt and sometimes the accelerator is spiced up itself.I got checked this acceleration thing in Varanasi , Lucknow and Allahabad but it was finally corrected in Bangalore.
Would love to buy this "Maan-za" :mrgreen: after sometime.Hope, this one has a different engine and all issuues are sorted out . Above all, it looks a damn good car. Looks like , finally Tata has arrived.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby Gagan » 16 Oct 2009 04:22

Smart looking car! But I will buy tata only after its been around for a while. After the experience that the Janta has had with the indigo, and safari, I think it is better to wait a while before one plunges into a tata outright.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby KarthikSan » 16 Oct 2009 04:54

Might be a Value for Money sedan but the styling looks yuck IMHO! I hate Tata designers sticking a trunk to the Indica and calling it a sedan and those puny 15" wheels. Throw in a set of good 17" alloys and it might actually look good. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby rahulm » 16 Oct 2009 05:17

Vaishali Jajoo, an auto analyst at Mumbai’s Angel Broking, said that as India’s GDP grows Indians will gradually climb into bigger, pricier cars -- the kind U.S. automakers have long excelled at making. But that’s a long way off.


While the pricier will happen I don't think bigger will happen. I think the Indian market will evolve along the European model (except germany) i.e. the Italian and Japanese model where small to medium cars are pre-dominant.

And hopefully, Vaishali is wrong and we don't bring US auto industry excellence to India. The Japanese and Europeans are better benchmarks to aspire to.

I can't find fuel consumption figures. Are Indian manufactures now required to state this by law?

On 3 variants there are no front seatbelt pre-tensioners. In a crash this is very useful and I think lack of one significantly affects the efficiency of the device.

The seat belt has been the single biggest contributor towards reducing accident fatalities and limiting serious injuries. It is the primary restraint system while the air bag is supplemental.

While India has laws requiring seat belts to be worn (which like most other rules apply to others not to one self) I think it applies only to the passengers in the front. It should apply to all passengers.

Given the high motor accident fatalities and continuing growth in car sales which will only magnify the issue, crumple zones, seat belts and air bags should be mandated and have strict OEM standards. At the very least the first 2 should be mandated and let the market take care of the air bags.

BTW, in the MANZA external specifications, whats a "co-driver" , SHQ and the car has dual controls in case she wants to take over?

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby amit » 16 Oct 2009 06:00

KarthikSan wrote:Might be a Value for Money sedan but the styling looks yuck IMHO! I hate Tata designers sticking a trunk to the Indica and calling it a sedan and those puny 15" wheels. Throw in a set of good 17" alloys and it might actually look good. :mrgreen:


Boss,
You want 17 inch wheels on a 1.3l/1.4l sedan? :)

But I agree that styling could be improved. The Tatas are getting there. Each new car is better than the previous ones. However, from the pictures I see on the Internet, it seems that the interiors are better. That is what IMO was really lacking. If Tata Motors really wants to make a dent in foreign markets like Europe and Southeast Asia then the interior has to get better.

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby amit » 16 Oct 2009 06:04

rahulm wrote:BTW, in the MANZA external specifications, whats a "co-driver" , SHQ and the car has dual controls in case she wants to take over?


Don't know about you Boss, but my SHQ already has full control of the car. :)

Lane changes, speed, overtaking - you name it everything is controlled from the front passenger seat. And when I'm on the front passenger seat I have to keep quiet as "one should not distract the driver". :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Postby KarthikSan » 16 Oct 2009 06:15

amit wrote:
KarthikSan wrote:Might be a Value for Money sedan but the styling looks yuck IMHO! I hate Tata designers sticking a trunk to the Indica and calling it a sedan and those puny 15" wheels. Throw in a set of good 17" alloys and it might actually look good. :mrgreen:


Boss,
You want 17 inch wheels on a 1.3l/1.4l sedan? :)


I'll settle for 16's :rotfl:


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