South India River Water Issues/Disputes

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 30 Sep 2016 10:57

When the issue is with our state, we give out explanations like why no ask for alternatives and we paid for the project etc. These things were also done by KA . one thing we have to bear in mind is chennai population increase from 45 to 49 lakhs from 2001 to 2011. In the same time frame, bangalore population grew from 63 lakhs to 83 lakhs and now it is at 112 lakhs. This population growth cannot be supported by conventional means and this is similar to Delhi haryana problem.
Coming to the point of using Krishna river, the water was not surplus and given to chennai but TN petitioned SC and got a ruling in favor of drinking water. What this effectively means is TN wants everybody to give it drinking water but when it comes to reciprocating, they just don't do it. There is no surplus water here and if Karnataka has to do it for BLR, it has to start arbitration with 4 states this time.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Sep 2016 13:32

KVRaghav, why are comparing Greater Bengaluru With Core Chennai of 178KM in 2011, Chennai Metropolitan area which has since been expanded to 426KM area which had 83 Lakh population in 2011, Chennai Metropolitan area had 1.2 crores in 2011. Chennai had a similar growth in Population as Bengaluru as have all Urban areas in India have . Yes Bengaluru is expanding but this perception that only Benguluru is growing at a fast Pace but Rest of India is stuck 30 years back is wrong.

Bengaluru will have a greater growth flyers and car purchases, since it is India largest % of IT and ITES sector where pay is generally better than other sectors but that is OT.

Bengaluru's destruction of Lakes is a poor record and Only depending of Cauvery Pipelines is not proper. And Remember the Water lifted for Bengaluru includes waster for Industrial purposes.

Bengaluru has been lifting water in Cauvery since 1974 now Phase IV part II has been completed, why cant KA govt plan projects from Bhadravati and Liganmakki dam also to ease the pressure of Cauvery whose water is severely required. Surely Central Govt can fund some of it due the Taxes realized from Bengaluru?

Regarding Krishna Water to Chennai, TN paid for a project which not only brought water to Chennai but also the project irrigated a lot of land in Andhra Pradesh also. SO both states benefit from the canal.

But anyway this is long term, lets see what the SC decides , I hope there is some rainfall so that needs of both states can be met.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 30 Sep 2016 15:58

SC has asked KA to release 6000cusescs a day for 2 days in Oct. KA has successfully stalled the water release similar to prior years. A financial clause should be added so if they are stalling then the farmers can get paid for KA govt incompetence.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Sep 2016 16:18

All four states of Krishna river agreed to give water to Telugu Ganga, though TN financed modernization of canal which was primarily to supply it water, not as a payment for water itself. Karnataka and Maharashtra agreed to share as it was for drinking purpose.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Sep 2016 17:04

putnanja wrote:All four states of Krishna river agreed to give water to Telugu Ganga, though TN financed modernization of canal which was primarily to supply it water, not as a payment for water itself. Karnataka and Maharashtra agreed to share as it was for drinking purpose.

I am not sure such consent is taken by NTR when it was announced. The Krishna river has seen its own disputes since then. Telugu Ganga water is mainly for water to AP areas and a little something NTR wanted to give to Chennai or that is how it was said by him at that time.

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 30 Sep 2016 20:44

Javee wrote:SC has asked KA to release 6000cusescs a day for 2 days in Oct. KA has successfully stalled the water release similar to prior years. A financial clause should be added so if they are stalling then the farmers can get paid for KA govt incompetence.

not incompetence, it is desperate. It is a pity, some of your own people might not have water to drink, but you would want to water for irrigation of samba crop or whatever. Why couldn't TN govt say, look there is less water,this year due to drought. Grow something else, which requires less water? Oh no, we don't care whether KA goes to hell, but TN needs water

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 30 Sep 2016 21:23

It is KA's incompetence and callousness that resulted in this brinkmanship. Every year when the monsoon fails, KA has gone in to a dadagiri mode threatening the lower riparian states that the water is theirs and they will not yield whether it's hell or heaven. It's also because of their incompetence that people of Bengaluru will be short changed for water. Did you just realize today that Bengaluru will have water shortage? Other than trying to usurp kaveri water what other actions has KA govt done in the last 10 years of unabated growth?? The telugu Ganga water scheme was planned in the 70's and got realized in the late 90's.

mnag · Post by **mnag** » 01 Oct 2016 10:36

Javee wrote:It is KA's incompetence and callousness that resulted in this brinkmanship. Every year when the monsoon fails, KA has gone in to a dadagiri mode threatening the lower riparian states that the water is theirs and they will not yield whether it's hell or heaven. It's also because of their incompetence that people of Bengaluru will be short changed for water. Did you just realize today that Bengaluru will have water shortage? Other than trying to usurp kaveri water what other actions has KA govt done in the last 10 years of unabated growth?? The telugu Ganga water scheme was planned in the 70's and got realized in the late 90's.

I agree Bangalore lake management is pathetic and not something any Bangalorean is proud of. Apart from 2 lakes supplying water, rest are encroached or polluted by drainage. Some agency working on lake restoration quoted it will take 4-5 years to cleanup the river. But having said that, tell me which indian state is competent in water management? Chennai was flooded last year, but why couldnt TN manage to store and use the water to prevent the current situation. If TN has water problem, why doesnt it cleanup Cooum or Adyar rivers?
No state is competent in managing water. If you use it to justify people of one state should not have drinking water to support your second/third crop with TN receiving NE monsoons soon, it just shows the entitlement mentality of TN. The entitlement mentality of TN justifies using water from Krishna for Chennai, but opposes Bangalore using Cauvery water. This is the sharing mentality of TN. It is a tragedy that we use the mismanagement to justify our entitlement, but dont go after fixing the mismanagement which caused the issue in first place

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Oct 2016 12:06

^^^^^^^

Each party in power is addressing it's own local vote banks and constituencies and each seems to have pigheadedly traveled too far down that road to make a public u turn.

Mucho cultural and linguistic capital seems to have been recklessly invested in a risky but high political ROI project, if it pays off.

It's a matter of H&D onlee.

If some respectable face saving and honorable disengagement mechanism can be found, both parties may soften their maximalist positions.

mnag · Post by **mnag** » 01 Oct 2016 12:31

very well said Chetak Sir

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 01 Oct 2016 14:22

Flooding in Chennai happened after ground water saturation and subsequent overflowing of city's reservoirs btw.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Oct 2016 17:15

what is this obsession about bringing in chennai's water issue.

issue is water sharing in between KA farmers and TN farmers. Just because KA has self created compulsions due to Blr drinking water, there is no need to bring chennai water into the mix.

and what's with the passive aggressive whining about chennai taking water from krishna. completely irrelevant.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 02 Oct 2016 03:40

I just don't understand this misinformation from the posters here that TN is asking water to grow 2nd and 3rd crop.i and the others here have posted so much information on the ground situation yet they keep harping the same like a broken record. And when discussing Bengaluru water problems, suddenly Chennai floods are being quoted, go on, be an ostrich.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Oct 2016 12:06

State farmers may get Cauvery water
One comment on the news item, I feel explains the situation very neatly. The comment reads.. CMs lies are unfortunately being revealed right now. Better to safeguard our 18th Oct petition in SC by releasing 3 tmc to TN. Then there will be no SC pressure on 18th. Else we will lose 18th. Laughable are attempts to rope in Abhisex manu singhvi ( one who said he could buy out judges thru sex ) and Sibal (whose math will definitely kill our case). As Jaya has got a best doctor from UK, let us get the best QC from england on our bench. It appears that we are fated to lose out, that too without a fight. A non govt team of Shivrajkumar, Vatal, KRV, Ambarish etc etc can review the petition and check out. No fun blaming nari after every fiasco. By placing these folling figures (yes water, no water ), KA has irritated SC. Even we are seeing the actual figures now. Wonder if there was no water earlier, how did farmers sow crops. I think KA has illegally 'leaked' water for irrigation for its farmers and is trying to cheat everybody. This is what basavaraj bommai had done earlier which has sealed SC's belief in KA politicos. Sad. At least we are happy, we HAVE drinking water.

mnag · Post by **mnag** » 03 Oct 2016 13:32

That one was just a sarcastic remark by a reader I think.
if you read the article, it says the drinking water need is 27.6TMC and maybe due to inflows, they have 33 TMC now. It was 29 TMC few days back There were rains in some places last week and that may have resulted in inflows. As usual practise when there is inflows or to avoid contempt of court, they may have decided to release water and so they maybe trying to sell it to farmers by saying that they're releasing to farmers and TN will get some. If they have decided to release, the water to TN will be measured at Biligundlu and there is no way to cheat on that.
They've been losing in SC even when water level storage is below drinknig water needs and I dont think releasing will make any difference

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 03 Oct 2016 15:06

Javee wrote:It is KA's incompetence and callousness that resulted in this brinkmanship. Every year when the monsoon fails, KA has gone in to a dadagiri mode threatening the lower riparian states that the water is theirs and they will not yield whether it's hell or heaven. It's also because of their incompetence that people of Bengaluru will be short changed for water. Did you just realize today that Bengaluru will have water shortage? Other than trying to usurp kaveri water what other actions has KA govt done in the last 10 years of unabated growth?? The telugu Ganga water scheme was planned in the 70's and got realized in the late 90's.

I am not sure Telugu gang planned in 70s. It was announced after NTR came to power which is 1982-83. The name itself is given by NTR.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 03 Oct 2016 15:53

It predates NTR. This is from one of the ebooks I have on inter state river sharing,

Telugu Ganga Project is an interesting project formulated ( first it was initiated in 15.2.1976 and finally historic agreement was signed on 18.4.1983 and 25.5.1983 foundation ceremony was held) to utilize flood water of Krishna and Pennar rivers to irrigate 5.75 lakh acres (2.32702 lakh ha) in drought prone areas of Kurnool, Cuddapah and Chittoor districts of Rayalaseema and uplands of Nellore districts in Andhra Pradesh besides conveying 15 TMC (424.75*106 m3 ) of Krishna water for Chennai city. The scheme consists of 408 km long canal from Srisailam passing through the above said 4 districts, and up to Andhra Pradesh, Tamilnadu border.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 04 Oct 2016 13:35

Spineless GoI (in) action,

The very day the Central government filed a plea on Monday before the Supreme Court stating that a Cauvery management board cannot be constituted, the Tamil Nadu government wrote to the Ministry of Water Resources seeking withdrawal of the interlocutory application (IA) and constitution of a board before October 4 as directed by the Supreme Court in an order on September 30 and "render justice to Tamil Nadu".

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/c ... epage=true

In its review petition filed in the Supreme Court on Saturday, Karnataka said the order to direct the release of water and form the Cauvery Management Board (CMB) was in “violation” of the National Water Policy of 2012, which placed the requirement of drinking water as first priority over needs of irrigation.

In the previous hearing on September 30, the Centre had assured the apex court that it would arrange for the CMB to visit the Cauvery basin sites and submit a ground report in court by October 6. On Monday, it scrapped the idea.

Instead, the Centre suggested that the Secretary, Union Water Resources Ministry, set up a ‘high-power technical team’ in his capacity as the Chairman of the Cauvery Supervisory Committee. This team would be led by G.S. Jha, Chairman of the Central Water Commission. It would proceed immediately to inspect the Cauvery basin and report back to the Supreme Court in 30 days.

In an urgent mentioning on Monday, Attorney-General Mukul Rohatgi said the apex court had no jurisdiction to direct the formation of CMB under Article 262 of the Constitution and provisions of the Inter-State River Disputes Act, 1956.

Article 262 allows a parliamentary law — Inter-State Water Disputes Act, 1956 — to forbid the Supreme Court from intervening in inter-State water disputes.

Section 6 (2) of the 1956 Act gives the orders of tribunals set up by the government under it the same force as an order of the Supreme Court. In short, the statutory law excluded the Supreme Court from intervening against the 2007 final order of the Cauvery Water Dispute Tribunal (CWDT).

Again, once the tribunal has pronounced a final order, it would fall on the Centre to prepare a water-sharing scheme based on the award of the tribunal. This scheme would be forwarded to the Parliament for promulgation. It was the Parliament’s sole right “to annul, vary, modify the Centre’s scheme.”

“The Supreme Court, by ordering the setting up of the CMB, has denuded the Centre of its powers under the 1956 Act to frame a scheme based on the tribunal award. The final say is vested in the Parliament,” the Centre said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... idgetPromo

There is already a tribunal ruling and that has been promulgated in the parliment. When KA flouts the laws and the spirit of final order, GoI sat on its bum with out forcing the ruling. Now that a competent authority is pulling up KA for that and GoI red-tapism is on action again. Rather than solving the issues, the politicians are making an enemy out of the 2 states for their political gains.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 04 Oct 2016 13:47

More politickle. Suddenly KA found excess water that they can release to TN

The only way to bring KA back to table is via supreme court. I think we all heard it loud and clear. Long term solution is to form a independent river water authority, that can take fact/law based decisions and not some random @ss hat.

Move comes in the wake of the court warning Karnataka not to invite the "wrath of the court" and asking it to release 6,000 cusecs a day from Oct. 1 to 6.

Soon after a unanimous resolution in the State legislature, Karnataka ended its defiance of the Supreme Court’s orders to release Cauvery water to Tamil Nadu by releasing 6,800 cusecs of water for irrigation purposes from the Krishna Raja Sagara dam at 8 p.m. on Monday; a large portion of this water is expected to reach Tamil Nadu.

The move comes in the wake of the court’s observation on September 30, warning Karnataka not to invite the “wrath of the court” and asking it to release 6,000 cusecs a day from October 1 to 6.

A report from Mysuru said the discharge from the Kabini reservoir was at the rate of 3,500 cusecs.

Earlier, the legislature passed the resolution to “empower” the government to release water to the State irrigation canals. This meant a quantum of water could be released to Tamil Nadu.

A carefully worded resolution passed by the two Houses which, on September 23, passed a resolution that water could be drawn only for drinking purposes, stated that given the increase in storage levels in the four reservoirs in the Cauvery basin for the past 10 days, “the State government may take an appropriate decision regarding release of water for irrigation in the best interests of the State.”

The open-ended last line of the resolution, which empowers the government to take an “appropriate decision”, drew criticism from the BJP. It cautioned the State government against any release of water to Tamil Nadu using this clause in the resolution.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 180876.ece

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 04 Oct 2016 14:43

Javee wrote:More politickle. Suddenly KA found excess water that they can release to TN The only way to bring KA back to table is via supreme court. I think we all heard it loud and clear. Long term solution is to form a independent river water authority, that can take fact/law based decisions and not some random @ss hat.

Yes sir. I can imagine you ROTFL when Bangaloreans don't have water to drink next summer or when farmers in and around Mandya wail for loan waiver or do worse things to themselves. Victory at last. Whoever tries to stop this gets called names. 'Excess water' is what flows from cauvery into bay of bengal after NE monsoon rains, when you have sweet pongal while we here look toward heavens with parched throats.
I cant believe that someone can exhibit such schadenfreude and hate.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 04 Oct 2016 15:21

Bengaluru drinking water problem or Mandya farmers loan waivers will not be solved by stopping water to TN, it is there because of KA's incompetence. If there is river, water will have to flow through it and reach the ocean, whether it NE monsoon or SW monsoon, not all the water can be hold in a dam and be used. And you think KA's govt is trying to set this right by not giving water to the lower riparian states? All the elected representatives in the vidhana soudha have lost their faces by taking this maximal position - fully knowing well that they will have to implement SC judgement, they politicized the issue as much as they can and when they know the guillotine is on their heads, scurrying to act. Ask yourself, where did this extra water came from and why did they delay releasing water for 10 days?? Why did they not accurately disclose how much water these 4 reservoirs had?

stated that given the increase in storage levels in the four reservoirs in the Cauvery basin for the past 10 days, “the State government may take an appropriate decision regarding release of water for irrigation in the best interests of the State.”

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Oct 2016 15:22

prashanth wrote:Yes sir. I can imagine you ROTFL when Bangaloreans don't have water to drink next summer or when farmers in and around Mandya wail for loan waiver or do worse things to themselves.

How much of today's Bangalore city actually gets Cauvery water 24/7? My understanding is that it is in a very limited area. Not even many IT-Vity pockets gets Cauvery water. There were also news reports which reported that KA Govt. and BBMP manage to lose 50% of the water which gets transported from the KRS dam to Bangalore. Either the water pipes are leaking, or they are sabotaged. IMHO, in this aspect KA Government and BBMP have much more home work to do, so that a few things can be fixed by them itself.

The long term solution perhaps lies in both TN and KA doing monthly reviews sitting together and releasing water accordingly. The ["KA denies water->TN approaches court->KA acts a bit stubborn, some riots happen->TN appeals in court->KA then forced to release water" has been happening for quite number of years.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Oct 2016 16:34

prashanth wrote:Yes sir. I can imagine you ROTFL when Bangaloreans don't have water to drink next summer or when farmers in and around Mandya wail for loan waiver or do worse things to themselves. Victory at last. Whoever tries to stop this gets called names. 'Excess water' is what flows from cauvery into bay of bengal after NE monsoon rains, when you have sweet pongal while we here look toward heavens with parched throats.
I cant believe that someone can exhibit such schadenfreude and hate.

yes yes, the general rule is one pot sweet pongal in TN for every farmer suicide in KA

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 04 Oct 2016 16:56

Some more politickle, what has the world come to

H.D. Deve Gowda, the former Prime Minister and Janata Dal (Secular) national president, has welcomed the Union government’s move to change its stand on constituting the Cauvery River Management Board. Speaking to presspersons here on Monday, Mr. Deve Gowda said the Union government had responded positively to his appeal on the issue.
“The Prime Minister has taken my hunger protest seriously. Now, the Centre has corrected the mistake it committed on September 30,” he said. The Union government, earlier, had agreed to constitute the board. However, on Monday, the Centre revised its stand. Mr. Deve Gowda said he had spoken to PM Narendra Modi and appealed to him not to constitute the board.
“I had begun a fast unto death in Bengaluru opposing the constitution of the river management board. The Chief Minister, and many other Ministers and leaders had appealed to me to give up the protest. I told all of them that I would continue with the hunger strike until the demand was met. I am prepared to sacrifice my life for this issue,” he said.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 182397.ece

When you have a party that has secular in its name is making a stunt, then we know that KA's politicos are not serious to solve this problem.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Oct 2016 17:06

Sachin wrote:
prashanth wrote:Yes sir. I can imagine you ROTFL when Bangaloreans don't have water to drink next summer or when farmers in and around Mandya wail for loan waiver or do worse things to themselves.
How much of today's Bangalore city actually gets Cauvery water 24/7? My understanding is that it is in a very limited area. Not even many IT-Vity pockets gets Cauvery water. There were also news reports which reported that KA Govt. and BBMP manage to lose 50% of the water which gets transported from the KRS dam to Bangalore. Either the water pipes are leaking, or they are sabotaged. IMHO, in this aspect KA Government and BBMP have much more home work to do, so that a few things can be fixed by them itself.

The long term solution perhaps lies in both TN and KA doing monthly reviews sitting together and releasing water accordingly. The ["KA denies water->TN approaches court->KA acts a bit stubborn, some riots happen->TN appeals in court->KA then forced to release water" has been happening for quite number of years.

No one in bangalore gets cauvery water 24x7.

It's usually once every two days for some hours during which tanks and sumps are hopefully filled up.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 04 Oct 2016 17:31

Javee wrote:Bengaluru drinking water problem or Mandya farmers loan waivers will not be solved by stopping water to TN, it is there because of KA's incompetence. If there is river, water will have to flow through it and reach the ocean, whether it NE monsoon or SW monsoon, not all the water can be hold in a dam and be used. And you think KA's govt is trying to set this right by not giving water to the lower riparian states? All the elected representatives in the vidhana soudha have lost their faces by taking this maximal position - fully knowing well that they will have to implement SC judgement, they politicized the issue as much as they can and when they know the guillotine is on their heads, scurrying to act. Ask yourself, where did this extra water came from and why did they delay releasing water for 10 days?? Why did they not accurately disclose how much water these 4 reservoirs had?

There! Failure of monsoon is heaped as 'incompetence' on KA government's part. Your statement that 'Karnataka does not give water to lower riperian states' is a strawman argument solely meant to whip up passions. Fact is that TN had water in Mettur dam (80 feet if I remember correctly) even before they approached supreme court. Why didn't the supreme court order TN to release that water for farmers? Why not use that water to fulfill requirements for now and then demand water when there is shortage? Moreover, you still have NE monsoon for help. If mettur reservoir was empty and NE rains failed, morally KA is bound to release water to TN immediately and everyone agrees with that. But now, water is depleted in KRS and other reservoirs in KA. If there is good spell of NE monsoon in TN, can you bring back excess water that goes to sea to mitigate water shortage in KA? Not possible.

Words and statements like loss-of-face, maximal, guillotine are all red herrings meant to obfuscate issues and are unfit for civil discussion. The 'excess' water in KA reservoir is just a false assurance given to farmers in mandya belt to stem further violence. If KA had excess water, none of the bandhs and related violence would have happened. People in KA are not itching for one. In a way you are right. KA government has displayed its incompetence by not sharing facts and figures properly with supreme court and the result if before us.

Sachin wrote:How much of today's Bangalore city actually gets Cauvery water 24/7? My understanding is that it is in a very limited area. Not even many IT-Vity pockets gets Cauvery water.

About 570 sq KM if BWSSB website is believed, more than 50% area of greater Blr. About 1350 MLD is supplied. Yes there is significant loss of water when it is pumped over a distance of 100 KM, and can be minimized. But I think loss is not as high as 50%.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Oct 2016 17:49

The pipes are old and there is a lot of leakage and also a lot of theft takes place with the active connivance of the BWSSB lower level staff.

Almost every apartment complex bribes the local BWSSB water chap, the actual bloke who operates the valves.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 04 Oct 2016 18:28

prashanth wrote:There! Failure of monsoon is heaped as 'incompetence' on KA government's part.

It absolutely is KA's incompetence. Is this the first time in history that there is a failure in monsoon? When there is a monsoon failure, does it mean that the river water can only be used by KA/Bengaluru? What lahori logic is this?

Your statement that 'Karnataka does not give water to lower riperian states' is a strawman argument solely meant to whip up passions. Fact is that TN had water in Mettur dam (80 feet if I remember correctly) even before they approached supreme court. Why didn't the supreme court order TN to release that water for farmers? Why not use that water to fulfill requirements for now and then demand water when there is shortage?

KA has not released water on its own volition, either the water gets filled in their dams and the excess spill water is let out in the river or it will have to be forced by either GoI or SC. This is not the first time that TN went to SC to force KA to release water on a less than normal monsoon. And for your other questions, I think you should approach the SC to get the answers.

Moreover, you still have NE monsoon for help. If mettur reservoir was empty and NE rains failed, morally KA is bound to release water to TN immediately and everyone agrees with that. But now, water is depleted in KRS and other reservoirs in KA. If there is good spell of NE monsoon in TN, can you bring back excess water that goes to sea to mitigate water shortage in KA? Not possible.

NE monsoon can help starting from October until then should we die of hunger and thirst? If NE monsoon fails and KA utilized all its water then ?? KA does not have rights over the water, it has to share it. Up till this point no one in KA has said that we will share the distress, it was a one way street that we will not allow a drop of water for TN. This escalation to maximal position was done by KA.

Words and statements like loss-of-face, maximal, guillotine are all red herrings meant to obfuscate issues and are unfit for civil discussion. The 'excess' water in KA reservoir is just a false assurance given to farmers in mandya belt to stem further violence. If KA had excess water, none of the bandhs and related violence would have happened. People in KA are not itching for one. In a way you are right. KA government has displayed its incompetence by not sharing facts and figures properly with supreme court and the result if before us.

I will believe the SC rather than the incompetent politicians from KA. The violence that was done in the name of Cauvery for the last 20 years and the fire that burnt TN registered lorries and buses a month back are a clear indication to which govt is obfuscating the facts and fanning violence.

About 570 sq KM if BWSSB website is believed, more than 50% area of greater Blr. About 1350 MLD is supplied. Yes there is significant loss of water when it is pumped over a distance of 100 KM, and can be minimized. But I think loss is not as high as 50%.

There is a news article from KA that claimed so, it has been posted in the previous pages.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 04 Oct 2016 19:16

Javee wrote: It absolutely is KA's incompetence. Is this the first time in history that there is a failure in monsoon? When there is a monsoon failure, does it mean that the river water can only be used by KA/Bengaluru? What lahori logic is this?

Lets maintain some civility in discussions shall we? It is your rhetoric filled post that defies all logic. Everytime there is a failure of monsoon, it would be better on TN's part to consult with KA on ground situation, instead of rushing to supreme court with its list of demands. Without fail, they make a vilification campaign that the upper riparian state is denying any water to TN. Thus SC itself is constrained to order release of water to appear neutral and fair. Politicians in TN can 'claim' victory and translate it into more votes. They won't attempt mutual discussions with KA because that will be seen as a surrender by chauvinists and ignoramuses in TN. So no votes.

Javee wrote: NE monsoon can help starting from October until then should we die of hunger and thirst? If NE monsoon fails and KA utilized all its water then ?? KA does not have rights over the water, it has to share it. Up till this point no one in KA has said that we will share the distress, it was a one way street that we will not allow a drop of water for TN. This escalation to maximal position was done by KA.

Re-read my post. I stated that for now, TN could use water from Mettur reservoir. IF it faces shortage in future, KA is duty bound morally to share water (and distress) with TN. Water is stored in KRS and other reservoirs during monsoon so that it can be supplied to Blr during summer (March-May). TN could easily have used some portion of 80 feet of water in Mettur until October, that is now. If NE monsoons failed during Nov-Dec, TN could still demand stored water in KA. No question of 'utilized all its water' arises.

Javee wrote:I will believe the SC rather than the incompetent politicians from KA.

Actually, I understand what you believe. It is that TN has to use KA's share of water first before it uses its own. Your statements ' KA does not have rights over the water' and 'KA utilized all its water then' say it all. Unfortunately for people in KA, some politicians in TN share your opinions and whip up passions for electoral gains. This is the root cause of all problems.

But having lived in TN, everyone I have interacted with were broad minded and detested the way issues were politicized. You can believe in SC's forced judgements. But I have hopes that in future, better people, such as I have seen, come to power in TN and resolve this issue amicably with KA.

Lastly, it is difficult to reason with you. I won't respond to your posts on this thread anymore.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Oct 2016 19:29

prashanth wrote: I stated that for now, TN could use water from Mettur reservoir. IF it faces shortage in future, KA is duty bound morally to share water (and distress) with TN
.....
If NE monsoons failed during Nov-Dec, TN could still demand stored water in KA.

I feel there could be a trust deficit also here. TN may take a stance that KA may not release water when there is a dire need for the water. Again the same set of behaviour (rioting, the state government refusing to give water and even dodging the courts for a while) may have been expected, and TN does not want to get into that state at a very late stage (when crops really require water urgently).

BTW, Supreme Court has once again made changes in the quantity of the water to be released.
Supreme Court orders Karnataka to release 2,000 cusecs daily to TN
So it is 2000 cusecs/day for 11 days = 22000 cusecs. How much was the earlier quantities? There has been lots of changes done on the quantum of water to be released.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 04 Oct 2016 19:53

Sachin wrote:I feel there could be a trust deficit also here. TN may take a stance that KA may not release water when there is a dire need for the water. Again the same set of behaviour (rioting, the state government refusing to give water and even dodging the courts for a while) may have been expected, and TN does not want to get into that state at a very late stage (when crops really require water urgently).

When you say deficit, I doubt if there was ever a trust surplus ever. Vehement objections were made by Madras (British) presidency right when Bharat Ratna M. Visweswaraiah contemplated building KRS dam in 1924. Some british representative in Bangalore had even resigned when they tried to convince the viceroy to take away all portions of erstwhile Mysore kingdom through which cauvery passes, and hand it over to them. This was the time when they were building Mettur dam for themselves. Even now, TN govt refuses to allow KA to perform desilting of reservoir beds of KA dams.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 03 Nov 2016 17:33

I see that all my posts made since the September 2016 anti-Tamil riots in Bengaluru - have been cleaned out. Many of the posts contained numerous sources of information.

Nevertheless below is a month or so old article.

Lorry owners from State to move SC for compensation

NAMAKKAL, September 30, 2016
Aggrieved over the loss suffered due to the attacks on lorries of Tamil Nadu in Karnataka, the State Lorry Owners Federation, Tamil Nadu, has planned to move the Supreme Court seeking adequate compensation from the Karnataka government for the losses they suffered.

Speaking to reporters here, M. R. Kumarasamy, federation president, said his forum had already demanded that the Tamil Nadu government hold negotiations with Karnataka for adequate compensation to lorry owners, whose vehicles suffered severe damage in the violence.

The operation of lorries to Karnataka was affected for 22 days, resulting in a loss of Rs. 100 crore every day.

The non-operation of inter-State lorries was also affecting trade to the tune of Rs. 1,500 crore daily, he said.

The Karnataka Lorry Owners Federation has assured to extend all support for the operation of lorries from Tamil Nadu in their State.

Following this, a delegation of the federation called on the Transport Minister and Transport Department officials on September 26 urging them to hold negotiations and get permission for operating Tamil Nadu lorries safely in that State. Hence, Tamil Nadu officials should negotiate with their counterparts in Karnataka and find an amicable solution.

A meeting of the office-bearers of the Lorry Owners Federation of South India with representatives of all four southern States and Union Territory of Puducherry is scheduled to be held in Hosur on September 30 to decide on the future course of action.

Based on the earlier instances of rioting victims compensation paid to Tamils by the Karnataka State Government (for the Cauvery River Riots that happened in the year 1991/1992) - I believe this option of moving the SC to seek compensation from Karnataka state government has good potential (but why seek help from SC at the first level of litigation itself ?)

http://www.thehindu.com/2004/03/10/stor ... 830400.htm
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/c ... ation.html
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 105689.ece

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Dec 2016 12:45

Tamil Nadu should pay cash money (hard cash) for water it gets from other states, instead of making war chest for bribing judiciary, tribunals, one-man comissions etc. It will end lot of needless arguments.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Dec 2016 12:28

habal wrote:Tamil Nadu should pay cash money (hard cash) for water it gets from other states, instead of making war chest for bribing judiciary, tribunals, one-man comissions etc. It will end lot of needless arguments.

Lets tryn try this with IWT if it works, some of those funds can be given to TN for this.

Or better still lets have an average monthly quota, water upto the allocated amount TN pays, any excess discharged by other state they compensate TN.

Basically ypu want things to be done to TN what can't even be done to Pakis and BD's.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 05 Dec 2016 12:44

habal wrote:Tamil Nadu should pay cash money (hard cash) for water it gets from other states, instead of making war chest for bribing judiciary, tribunals, one-man comissions etc. It will end lot of needless arguments.

Why such new terms? A deal was struck and it should be honored.

Any amendments can only be termed in court.

TN should do a lot more to help it's farmers and none of that should be paying money for water imo.

Such arguments are not going to help nation building imo. My opinion - nationalize all rivers.

habal · Post by **habal** » 05 Dec 2016 12:45

Upper riparian should get something in return. It is difficult to sustain one-way traffic for ever. Or else present situation can linger on with rioting, supply disruptions, bad blood etc.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 05 Dec 2016 21:21

habal wrote:Upper riparian should get something in return. It is difficult to sustain one-way traffic for ever. Or else present situation can linger on with rioting, supply disruptions, bad blood etc.

Why all these slimy attempts to blackmail TN (or any other lower riparian state)?

TN is not at KA's mercy. There is something called as Indian Federation and they decide what KA should get. Almost all of the kaveri riots are politically manufactured.

As to what will linger and what will not, we shall see.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 15 Dec 2016 12:45

habal wrote:Upper riparian should get something in return. It is difficult to sustain one-way traffic for ever. Or else present situation can linger on with rioting, supply disruptions, bad blood etc.

Bollocks, we still have a rule of law in these lands. Upper riparian is getting its share of water, so why should the lower riparian pay for something that it owns?? If the lower riparian wants the share of upper riparian, then it makes sense to pay up for the "extra" water it gets, for eg, Telugu Ganga or Sai Ganga where TN pays for water to AP.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 15 Dec 2016 14:52

GShankar wrote: TN is not at KA's mercy. There is something called as Indian Federation and they decide what KA should get. Almost all of the kaveri riots are politically manufactured.
As to what will linger and what will not, we shall see.

It is not, and never was. Please do not make provocative statements.

chola · Post by **chola** » 15 Dec 2016 15:15

Javee wrote:
habal wrote:Upper riparian should get something in return. It is difficult to sustain one-way traffic for ever. Or else present situation can linger on with rioting, supply disruptions, bad blood etc.
Bollocks, we still have a rule of law in these lands. Upper riparian is getting its share of water, so why should the lower riparian pay for something that it owns?? If the lower riparian wants the share of upper riparian, then it makes sense to pay up for the "extra" water it gets, for eg, Telugu Ganga or Sai Ganga where TN pays for water to AP.

Asking that TN must "pay" upper riparian states like Karnataka is a shit move. Why must one Indian state pay another for water?