South India River Water Issues/Disputes

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 12 Sep 2016 18:21

On paper, yes. But enforcement is lacking.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 12 Sep 2016 18:33

The reason I ask is that in India we don't fix something till it is well and truly broken. In this case, water scarcity. Chennai went through crippling shortages 10-15 years ago, hence the support for RWH. I don't see a similar situation in Bengaluru which will necessitate such drastic steps. Or it will need a leadership with foresight, which one cannot accuse the congress govt of having.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 12 Sep 2016 19:21

Lilo, Putnanja,
It's difficult to argue for what happened before. This time Karnataka has done itself a disservice. The violence against TN plated vehicles, Tamil people has made a big blot on bangalore & south Karnataka. The Cauvery Water Tribunal went through most of the historical records & current situation thoroughly before awarding the water sharing. Karnataka has more hectares under sugarcane than TN & in particular Mandya district has increased it's coverage significantly. Rivers are national assets & Karnataka can't call it as its own.

Lilo wrote:What i dont understand is how come at the peak season of a above average monsoon, a river water dispute flares up between these two states?

A detailed & worthy writeup on the issue's background...
https://www.quora.com/Can-anyone-write- ... Tamil-Nadu

Now coming to the oft repeated solution of creating local irrigation potential & funding sustainable irrigation practices ....

Does anyone know the amount being spent on freebies in both states?
1) TN takes the cake here - totally useless freebies to buy votes Tv sets,Laptops,grinders,TVS scooties and what not.Can any one contrast the cost of these freebies to the amount spent on funding drip irrigation sytems for the water sucking sugarcane crops of TN?
2)Loan waivers - All major agricultural states of south indulge in this farce - especially congress dominated states.Most recently the congress govt in KN gave a loan waiver to farmers(major portion going to big farmers having congi patronage) in October 2015.

.

I dont see any clamor for such water storage projects as much as i see for freebies & other useless issues in these states .
Vaigai is parched in the South TN - and folks there are diverted on emotional tamil eelam issues.
North KN is parched and there people are diverted on emotional KN-Maha language issues.All the time their elites make merry in Chennai & Bangalore respectively - diverting water to these over industrialized cities.

Why is there no industrial center worth its name in North KN or in South TN.Why is this regional disparity not an electoral issue.?
Why is there no demand for joining Kaveri to Vaigai and then on to Krishna & Godavari Mahanadi along the eastern coast?
Is it because there is no national party in these states which can raise above each state's chauvinistic insular concerns?

Its high time the emotional people of these states currently making all the noise ask their respective politicians in power what they have done to create water storage potential in the water scarce areas of these states.

Added later:
Also center should bring the states together to roll out a monsoon performance indexed MSP varying geographically as per monsoon performance in say 127 Agro zones of the country.
If an agroclimatic zone is predicted to be raindeficient (by a cutoff date in beginning of the monsoon) reduce the MSP for water sucking crops like rice & sugarcane in that year for that zone & incentivize water conserving crops like pulses or other cashcrops that year in that zone.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Sep 2016 19:35

http://thewire.in/65243/who-should-karnataka-blame-in-the-cauvery-dispute-history-has-some-answers/

First of all we need to know how and from where this 740 TMC ft. is generated. How do we arrive at that figure? In simple terms, 270 TMC ft. which Karnataka is allocated plus 192 TMC ft. which it has to ensure to Tamil Nadu, comes to 462 TMC ft. This is the quantum of water, which, according to the tribunal, is the yield from the river within Karnataka annually. So out of 462 TMC ft. Karnataka has to give 192 TMC ft to Tamil Nadu.

While Tamil Nadu gets this 192 TMC ft. from Karnataka, how it manages to use 419 TMC ft. is the next puzzle. The simple answer is 419 minus 192 – which is 227 TMC ft. – is what Tamil Nadu generates from its own catchment areas within the state. If Karnataka and Tamil Nadu’s yield comes to 689 TMC ft (462+227), Kerala contributes 51 TMC ft., of which it keeps 30 while 21 TMC ft is reserved for Puducherry (7) and environmental purposes (14).

The sum and substance of it all is that while Karnataka contributes 462 TMC ft. it is allowed to use 270 TMC ft., Tamil Nadu which contributes 227 TMC ft. gets 419 TMC ft. and Kerala which contributes 51 TMC ft. is allowed to use 30 TMC ft.

On the face of it, it certainly seems like a major injustice to Karnataka, no doubt. How did this happen? The answer to this lies in history, which we cannot re-write now. It so happened that rulers like the Cholas, who ruled that part of the country, which is now Tamil Nadu and where the river flows, had the foresight to build reservoirs and check dams in the tenth century and later, to utilise the water for irrigation. On the other hand the rulers of Mysore built their first major reservoir, K.R.Sagar only in 1934.

Tamil Nadu farmers therefore had the early advantage, and when the agreements in 1894 and 1924 were signed, already over 15 to 20 lakh acres or even more was already under irrigation in that state. Karnataka in 1924 was claiming only 6.5 lakhs acres and at present it has managed to irrigate only about 15 lakh acres. This meant that about 80% of the annual yield from Cauvery was being utilised by Tamil Nadu farmers, even upto 1974, when Karnataka terminated the 1924 agreement.

With the mix of historical advantage blended with foresight as well as what is known as prescriptive right, Tamil Nadu naturally enjoys a greater share. It cannot be anyone’s argument that those who have been enjoying the water all these years should now be denied it. But going by the 1924 agreement, Tamil Nadu’s share, which was over 80%, has now come down to 57% and Karnataka, which was using about 16%, now gets 37%.

So is the award an injustice to Karnataka? Yes, it is, but more for historical reasons than a conscious act perpetrated by the tribunal in 2007. Should Karnataka accept it without protest? No, because there are certain aspects to the award which need clarification and modification, which Karnataka through a special leave petition sought from the Supreme Court in 2007 itself. In fact even Tamil Nadu and Kerala have filed similar petitions – as these two states were also not fully happy with the award – which till now, unfortunately, have not been adjudicated.

Where did the tribunal get its numbers from?

Even as politicians and some sections of the media indulge in competitive parochialism based less on facts and more on emotions, one needs to look at this issue as objectively as is possible. Is the final award unfair to Karnataka? This is an obvious question that has been dogging the minds of all fair-minded citizens in the state and outside.

Going by cold statistics, which is what ultimately has by and large played a major role in the tribunal’s final award, we get some answers.

Take for instance one of the major objections of Karnataka to the final award, which even the state’s legal and technical teams have endorsed. That is about the monthly allocation made, especially in the first four months of the water year, June to September, by the tribunal. The allocations are June 10 TMC ft, July 34 TMC ft, August 50 TMC ft and September 40 TMC ft. These allocations are seen to be worrisome, as Karnataka, which is served to a large extent only by the south west monsoons, which start in June, may find itself in a quandary if the rains are not normal or fail in any year.

This problem occurred even before the tribunal award, especially in 2002-02 and 2003-04, when successive failures of the monsoon created a major problem. And again in 2012 and this year, we have faced similar problems, leading to the Supreme Court directing Karnataka to release 10,000 cusecs per day for 10 days, triggering protests in Karnataka.

Given this problem, why did the tribunal decide to allocate 134 TMC ft. for these four months? The answer lies in the figures which Karnataka itself had presented before it. According to the state’s own data, during the 16 years before 2007, Karnataka had released on an average 134.18 TMC ft. during those four months, to Tamil Nadu, measured at Biligundlu. No wonder the tribunal took the average and allocated it monthly.

The stress of distress

So the conclusion from this is that in a normal year there would be no difficulty for Karnataka to release the quantum of water, which the tribunal has allocated. The problem comes only in distress years like in 2002-03 and 2003-04 and again in 2012 and now in 2016. So what should the distress sharing formula be?

A lot has been said about the formula. In fact, the entire dispute between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu is mainly about what is to be done in a distress year. However, what one has to understand is that the mandated method of sharing distress is exactly what Karnataka’s experts, from both its legal and irrigation departments, had been demanding before the tribunal.

The final award points out that during distress, there has to be a pro-rata sharing of water, which on the face of it means, depending on the water availability, reducing the share to all of the states as per the percentage share allocated to them. This is what Tamil Nadu wanted. However, a careful reading of the award indicates that it has gone beyond mechanical reduction and has suggested a liberal approach wherein the regulatory body (to be set up) will have to consider the entire basin flows, including the impact of the northeast monsoon, before deciding. This is exactly what Karnataka wanted. So where is the problem here?

But yet, there is a strong feeling that the allocation for the first four months needs to be reduced so that Karnataka’s burden is lessened and it can provide for its own farmers. There is also an argument that the tribunal has gone by the 1924 parameters in allocating the water for these four months when Karnataka’s needs were limited. This is an issue worth challenging, though how far Karnataka may be able to convince the Supreme Court is a moot point, considering the cold statistics.

However, one issue which the tribunal has over-looked, and which has been challenged, is the fact that Tamil Nadu has plenty of ground water resources, which Karnataka hardly has. Tamil Nadu, according to an expert body’s conservative estimate, has anywhere in the region of 20 TMC ft. of ground water. If this had been taken into account, the burden on Karnataka would have been reduced.

Another important point which emanates from the final award is the stress on better water management. Both states have been found wanting in this regard, and this is something which needs to be taken up on a war footing. Tamil Nadu, especially, has to improve as it grows two paddy crops which are water intensive, and the techniques which continue to be adopted do not help in conserving water.

So it is time that both states get down to the task of improving water management techniques and crop patterns. Karnataka, in the meanwhile, would do well to start planning for an additional reservoir at Mekedatu to utilise the surplus water, generate power and ensure water supply to Bangalore and Greater Bangalore, without wasting time.

Meanwhile, a final figure to put the issue in a perspective. In the 16-year period between 1991-92 and 2006-07, the average annual flow at Biligundlu was 255 TMC ft. In five of these years, the flow was over 350 TMC ft.

All that the tribunal’s final award asks Karnataka to ensure is 192 TMC ft. annually.

It is evident from the figures of the flows from Karnataka to Tamil Nadu since the award of the tribunal in 2007, that only in 2012, was the annual flow less than what the tribunal awarded. In 2012-13 it was just 100.45 MC ft. as against the required 192 TMC Ft.

It’s another matter that during the period June-August for the past seven years, including 2016, the flows from Karnataka have been less than the 94 TMC ft. awarded by the tribunal.– except for three years 2007-08, 2013-14 and 2014-15. And it is these months of shortage, when Karnataka has not been able to fulfil it obligations due to weak early monsoons, which creates demand from Tamil Nadu and hesitation from Karnataka. As the annual flows show, ultimately Tamil Nadu usually gets more water than has been prescribed by the Tribunal annually. But, sadly, politicians on both sides don’t want to let go an opportunity to make a hue and cry, whenever they get an opportunity.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 12 Sep 2016 19:55

csubash wrote:Rivers are national assets & Karnataka can't call it as its own.

The bolded part is an extremely unfair accusation against people of KA. Neither any politician nor any pro-kannada organization has made a statement to that effect. Please edit your post.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 12 Sep 2016 20:18

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 415876.cms

Though dated - From Siddhramaih in 2012.

prashanth wrote:
csubash wrote:Rivers are national assets & Karnataka can't call it as its own.
The bolded part is an extremely unfair accusation against people of KA. Neither any politician nor any pro-kannada organization has made a statement to that effect. Please edit your post.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 12 Sep 2016 20:22

"Cauvery is the mother of the Kannadigas, so we cannot give the water to anybody else"

Vatal Nagaraj in 1992

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 12 Sep 2016 20:31

Both statements are out of date, and not relevant to current affairs.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Sep 2016 23:18

What about Karnataka Every kannada Like Ragini dwidedi- Cauvery is Ours why will we give any water unless we have a surplus. Many Kannadigas have on social media have stated that we can give beggars something only if our plate is full, i.e TN are beggars.

The very fact that Bengaluru is drawing 80% ts water from Cauvery and not from any of its lakes or making use of Bengaluru's good rainfall by keeping soem encroachment free lakes, or using pipelines from North Karnataka's resovoirs like Bhadravati to draw some drinking water, it looks like Karnataka Govt seems to think Cauvery water going into TN is a waste and needs to be utilised to the last drop.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Sep 2016 08:23

North Karnataka is even more arid than South Karnataka. Have you ever been to North Karnataka? Even the water there isn't sufficient for drinking purposes for the towns and cities around it.

Bangalore lakes aren't big enough to supply water to everyone even if there was no encroachments. And drinking water is more of a priority than for agriculture. Also, TN vehemently objected to desilting tanks and lakes in Cauvery catchment area, and even opposed ADB funding for the same, as it feared water to the river will be reduced. And it fails to even diversify their crops. Plus TN also receives North East monsoons that Karnataka doesn't.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 13 Sep 2016 08:32

Desalination is probably one of the best way forward. Desalination by crazy amounts, TN needs to think really big. Like desalinating water from the sea and using that to hydrate the existing (and new) canals.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 13 Sep 2016 09:12

SwamyG wrote:Desalination is probably one of the best way forward. Desalination by crazy amounts, TN needs to think really big. Like desalinating water from the sea and using that to hydrate the existing (and new) canals.

We need a combination of things- Desalination plants and JalYukta shivir abhiyaans all over the state. I would have thought that a progressive state such as TN would have gone for it a long time back.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Sep 2016 09:24

Technology of desalination is cheaper now.. for the cost of every bus being burnt, one can supply perennial water from sea to 1000 people

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2016 09:55

Desalination is probably one of the best way forward. Desalination by crazy amounts, TN needs to think really big. Like desalinating water from the sea and using that to hydrate the existing (and new) canals.

Yeah, right. This is in a state where you cant even charge electricity for farm purposes, and water is not charged at all mostly, and now you want to set up massive desalination plants to feed water against a natural gradient for irrigation , where again you cannot charge water for it's costs ? That is right out of cloud cuckkoo land.

That said, the solution to this entire water business is to apply user charges for all purposes including agricultural purposes (drinking water at least slab) and actually make water used based on rational economic decision making! This is the best solution , but will require politicos to pay polictical capital. Now which politico will do it ?

Trouble is, there is ample water for everyone in a normal year, so clearly you dont need to do anything. Spending huge amounts for a shortfall once in 2 decades doesnt make any economic sense.

The problem comes during distress, that is when it KA claims first "rights" on it's river to feed the standing crop in the Mandya belt (usually high water using sugarcane crop). That is clearly not sustainable under law (any law, including international law which would apply if it had been an international river) , and Karnataka clearly lost it's case in court. It really has no option but to comply with the law and natural justice. Both TN and KA have to share the distress in a bad year. KA CANNOT claim first "right" on the river water and say take the surplus

Let me hazard that the final award of the KA tribunal too will be along international principles and accepted law and natural justice. It cannot be otherwise. The KA politicos have turned this into a political football on competitive politics, milked it hugely, but in the end, LOST the case in the supreme court, and in the end will have to comply. Now no one wants to pay the political cost of that and wants to turn that into an electoral advantage.

Firing Nariman would not help. You would get a clueless chump in his place and that would do far greater damage to KA's cause. Going back the supreme court backfired, when they ordered release of MORE water than the initial award. This current episode is clearly orchestrated by Siddaramiah, who built his career on this Kaveri politics, took a "hard" stand that he wont release water because there is "none" , claimed potential "law and order" problems. Guess what, all that got throw out in court and yesterday the "protesters" were given a free run of the city without any hindrance , the goons took over , the entire thing went out of control and we saw the mayhem that resulted and Siddaramiah has egg on his face.

This is a replay of the Bangarappa's politics of 1991, when the Congress was power. Now from what I hear on the ground, Siddaramaih is all set to unshackle himself from the Congress and strike out on his own. Hence his attempt at building a "base" around the Kaveri agitation. If he is fired by the Congress, be goes out as a "martyr". Now let him be the guy who implements the Supreme Court award and share water. That will be his "waterloo" and fittingly so.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 13 Sep 2016 11:13

Aditya_V wrote:What about Karnataka Every kannada Like Ragini dwidedi- Cauvery is Ours why will we give any water unless we have a surplus. Many Kannadigas have on social media have stated that we can give beggars something only if our plate is full, i.e TN are beggars.

The very fact that Bengaluru is drawing 80% ts water from Cauvery and not from any of its lakes or making use of Bengaluru's good rainfall by keeping soem encroachment free lakes, or using pipelines from North Karnataka's resovoirs like Bhadravati to draw some drinking water, it looks like Karnataka Govt seems to think Cauvery water going into TN is a waste and needs to be utilised to the last drop.

Statements of an actress or someone in social media cannot be used as a strawman to paint tar on all kannadigas. WRT Bengaluru's lakes, as putnanja has said, there is not enough water to fulfill the needs of a vast city. And Northern KA is even more arid than the south.
On the contrary, TN has enough water stored in Mettur dam (80 ft and counting), plus it gets more during NE monsoon rains. Why not wait till they experience real shortage and then make genuine demands? What happens if there is good rainfall in TN during NE monsoon and there is surplus water?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Sep 2016 11:38

Desal has been done in TN where feasible. It is not feasible to use desal for farming - it is prohibitively expensive. Not only the costs of desal itself, but to pump the water from the coast up the gradient to 100-200 kms to irrigate the vast Kaveri basin. Better thing to do is to reduce the use of water through drip irrigation/SRI, etc. Not a farming expert by any means, so anyone who knows more about this please comment.

As for "progressive TN not doing anything", here are some facts:

SG order mandating RWH across the state: Link (remember > 50% of TN lives in urban localities)

"255-A Provision of Rain Water Harvesting Structure.
-
(1) In every building owned or occupied by the
Government or a statutory body or a company or an
institution owned or controlled by the Government, rain
water harvesting structure shall be provided by the
Government or by such statutory body or company or
other institution, as the case may be, in such manner
and within such time as may be prescribed.
(2) Subject to the provisions
of sub-section (1), every
owner or occupier of a building shall provide rain water
harvesting structure in the building in such manner and
within such period as may be prescribed.
Explanation
.-
Where a building is owned or occupied by
more than one person, every such person shall be liable
under this sub-section.
(3) Where the rain water harvesting structure is not
provided as required under sub-section (2), the
Commissioner or any person authorised by him in this
behalf may, after giving notice to the owner or occupier
of the building, cause rain water harvesting structure to
be provided in such building and recover the cost of
such provision along with t
he incidental expense thereof
in the same manner as property tax.
(4) Notwithstanding any action taken under sub-section
(3), where the owner or occupier of the building fails to
provide the rain water harvesting structure in the building
before the date as may be prescribed, the water supply
connection provided to such building shall be
disconnected till rain water harvesting structure is
provided.

Water supplies to Chennai: http://www.chennaimetrowater.tn.nic.in/public/lake.htm (this gives status of each reservoir the city depends on).

From Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chennai_M ... wage_Board)

Chennai has fresh water reservoirs/lakes namely Poondi, Sholavaram, Red Hills, Chembarambakkam, Veeranam to cater the daily needs of water for chennai area.

Chennai receives most of its water from Poondi Lake (3,231 Mcft), Sholavaram Lake (881 Mcft), Red Hills Lake (3,300 Mcft) and Chembarambakkam Lake (3,645 Mcft).

RO plants:

Chennai has Reverse osmosis plants namely at Velachery, Nochikuppam, Kasimedu, and Ayodhyakuppam. It takes raw Brackish water from bore wells, stores in tanks and then it purifies before supply.

Desalination:
Minjur plant
Nemmeli plant

This is a good 2014 article that details how metro water implemented desalination plants in Chennai: Quenching Chennai's Thirst - Business Today

Of course, the above pertains to Chennai, but in the context of Bengaluru's water needs, it is important to compare apples to apples. There are things both cities can learn from each other, Chennai can learn about source segregation of waste, and Bengaluru can learn about water recharge and efficient usage. With the current parochial politics, not much hope though.

P.S. I hope people pay heed to Venkaiah Naidu's considered statement on TV.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Sep 2016 11:50

prashanth wrote:Statements of an actress or someone in social media cannot be used as a strawman to paint tar on all kannadigas.

I agree with this. Let's not give credence to these random actresses who are required to say these things to get future employment.

prashanth wrote: WRT Bengaluru's lakes, as putnanja has said, there is not enough water to fulfill the needs of a vast city.

Just curious - Bellandur and Varthur lakes are the sources of the now dry Ponnai river. Similarly, the Palar's headwords are around Kolar district, which in the past was big on tank irrigation (check out G maps between Kolar and Mulbagal, lots of small tanks, and the Bethamangala reservoir on the Palar itself). Given the topography (hilly regions and plateaus), I would think reservoirs could be built relatively easy compared to coastal plain topography. They may not help immediately, but will payoff in the long term. Have such options been explored in the past? Again, just curious, trying to understand the issue fully.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 13 Sep 2016 12:11

arshyam wrote:As for "progressive TN not doing anything", here are some facts:

I surely did not say that TN is not doing anything. My comment was in response to SwamyG who opined that "Desalination is probably one of the best way forward."

I only remarked that TN being a progressive state would have likely gone for this a while back. Your points back up my assertion.

arshyam wrote:Of course, the above pertains to Chennai, but in the context of Bengaluru's water needs, it is important to compare apples to apples. There are things both cities can learn from each other, Chennai can learn about source segregation of waste, and Bengaluru can learn about water recharge and efficient usage. With the current parochial politics, not much hope though.

Agreed. I would rather that all cities learn what they can from each other. Delhi and Mumbai especially must take up Waste management lessons from Bangalore.

arshyam wrote:P.S. I hope people pay heed to Venkaiah Naidu's considered statement on TV.

What did he say? Any links?

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 13 Sep 2016 12:22

arshyam wrote:I would think reservoirs could be built relatively easy compared to coastal plain topography. They may not help immediately, but will payoff in the long term. Have such options been explored in the past? Again, just curious, trying to understand the issue fully.

Without adequate rainfall, even reservoirs are of little help. But yes, we have to ensure whatever little water is available is used well.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Sep 2016 12:24

Thanks for the clarification Kashi saar, didn't mean to cause offence. Hope none was taken.

As for VN's statement, saw it on TimesNow over the past hour. ~~No links so far, at least that I am aware of~~.

Found it: http://www.timesnow.tv/india/video/naid ... fied/49222

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Sep 2016 14:04

prashanth wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:What about Karnataka Every kannada Like Ragini dwidedi- Cauvery is Ours why will we give any water unless we have a surplus. Many Kannadigas have on social media have stated that we can give beggars something only if our plate is full, i.e TN are beggars.

The very fact that Bengaluru is drawing 80% ts water from Cauvery and not from any of its lakes or making use of Bengaluru's good rainfall by keeping soem encroachment free lakes, or using pipelines from North Karnataka's resovoirs like Bhadravati to draw some drinking water, it looks like Karnataka Govt seems to think Cauvery water going into TN is a waste and needs to be utilised to the last drop.
Statements of an actress or someone in social media cannot be used as a strawman to paint tar on all kannadigas. WRT Bengaluru's lakes, as putnanja has said, there is not enough water to fulfill the needs of a vast city. And Northern KA is even more arid than the south.
On the contrary, TN has enough water stored in Mettur dam (80 ft and counting), plus it gets more during NE monsoon rains. Why not wait till they experience real shortage and then make genuine demands? What happens if there is good rainfall in TN during NE monsoon and there is surplus water?

Mettur Dam is built between hills, its Dead Storage level is 74ft, so when people say 80 ft the dam is close to its dead storage , it is nearly empty.
Please don't carried by Propaganda, the Cauvery river bed is totally dry in much of TN. Cities like Trichy, Kumbakonam which used to draw water for drinking purpose from Cauvery have stopped and looked for Bore wells and other sources. TN Cauvery Delta has been in distress for many years. Land under rice and Sugarcane farming has come down in TN in the last 5 years. This TN farmers have soo much surplus and grow 3-4 crops a year along the Cauvery basin is pure propoganda being spread by the Karnataka side, they are very much is distress. They need the water to sow the Samba crop now which will then grow NE moonsoon when it comes.

Regarding North East Moonsoon, the City of Bengaluru and many of its surrounding areas also get a lot of rainfall from North East Monsoon, just like Bengaluru got flooded by IN July End and August 2016 by South West Monsoon, Yet none of this water is being stored in Lakes for Bengaluru's drinking water purpose. The Karnataka Government Machinery feels only Cauvery water should be used for Bengaluru drinking water purpose which is again taken from Mandya's farmer share of Tribunal award. They dont want to conserve Water in Lakes around Bengaluru or put pipelines from places like Bhadravati which ease the distress of Mandya farmers as Bengaluru requirement from Cauvery water can be reduced.

Yes Karnataka has a distress year, theey can release less water but can't release no water.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 13 Sep 2016 14:30

prashanth wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:What about Karnataka Every kannada Like Ragini dwidedi- Cauvery is Ours why will we give any water unless we have a surplus. Many Kannadigas have on social media have stated that we can give beggars something only if our plate is full, i.e TN are beggars.

The very fact that Bengaluru is drawing 80% ts water from Cauvery and not from any of its lakes or making use of Bengaluru's good rainfall by keeping soem encroachment free lakes, or using pipelines from North Karnataka's resovoirs like Bhadravati to draw some drinking water, it looks like Karnataka Govt seems to think Cauvery water going into TN is a waste and needs to be utilised to the last drop.
Statements of an actress or someone in social media cannot be used as a strawman to paint tar on all kannadigas. WRT Bengaluru's lakes, as putnanja has said, there is not enough water to fulfill the needs of a vast city. And Northern KA is even more arid than the south.
On the contrary, TN has enough water stored in Mettur dam (80 ft and counting), plus it gets more during NE monsoon rains. Why not wait till they experience real shortage and then make genuine demands? What happens if there is good rainfall in TN during NE monsoon and there is surplus water?

People keep forgetting that this 'need for drinking water' for Bengaluru has happened only in last decade but the agriculture in Tamil Nadu's cauvery river basin has been happening since many centuries. Let us not forget that the diversionary stone dam ( kallanai ) or the Veeranam Lake - in Cauvery river's path in present Tamil Nadu & which are still completely functional - were created during the times of Chola dynasty itself in TN (for enabling agriculture).

Also - What happens when there is no normal rainfall during NE monsoon in the Cauvery river basin areas of TN ?. Does Karnataka state that agriculture in TN be stopped in such periods because drinking water for the relatively well-to-do Bengaluru city is most important requirement and that farmers in TN give up farming (their age old profession), throw their families into further distress & either commit suicide or migrate as low-paid unskilled employees to nearby urban clusters ?.

Whatever the issue - converting a court run dispute case on river water sharing into a violent, law & order issue in Karnataka by Kannada extremists is a completely non-workable idea of winning a favourable response from the court.

Stripping down hapless lorry drivers of TN registered vehicles to their under-garments by Karnataka Vedike Rakshana group hooligans with nary a cop in the nearby area, recording videos of the same & publishing to Social Media to 'boast' about their 'victorious acts', assaulting the lorry drivers, making them apologize for the order issued by Supreme Court and finally damaging/setting fire to their vehicles (like the case that just happened with a HPCL LPG Tanker vehicle in Chitradurga on morning of 13th September 2016 and being currently shown in a repeated manner on Tamil News channels - look at NEWS7) - these types of antics by Kannada Extremists will only infuriate the others more, indicates to other extremists groups that police have lowered their guard and makes Karnataka appear as a truly nasty place for even vehicles to pass by. If you don't believe me and want me to post pictures of this nasty event that took place for a lorry & its driver in Chitradurga - then i am willing to do so. But it will only make things more & more bitter and i want to desist from that.

When the fight is in the courts and there is a supervisory committee that is keenly gathering information, observing all aspects & developments of this case to help the court come to a decision - it makes a lot more sense to fight it in the courts with proper reasons. But Karnataka government is indulging in emotionally loaded, political bravado statements (do it - but after the end of court case when you have got a favourable response), is citing uncontrollable law & order problems in Karnataka as an issue to Supreme Court (because then CM of KN is accepting that citizens of the state are unruly, beyond control of state government and that he only runs a hapless government). Of what use is the act of deliberately provoking other communities by inflicting pain on them - for their only 'mistake' of having driven through Karnataka on their way to/from their base in Tamil Nadu. Will it get more water for Karnataka ?.

I can only hope you are not a supporter of these Kannada Extremists & their continuing antics.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 13 Sep 2016 14:36

Viewed in dispassionate terms, it is simply a property dispute. Who does the rain that falls in the Cauvery river basin, right up to the borders of Karnataka that is, belongs to? The Tamil Nadu says it is the joint property of both Karnataka and Tamil Nadu and so it is entitled to partake of a share along with Karnataka, the other joint-owner. Obviously, that implies that TN must get to share it at the same time as Karnataka does it. What should be the respective share is a question that comes up only after both parties agree that it is a joint property. If Karnataka feels that it is its exclusive property then it follows that any water that flows into TN is an act of trespass and the person responsible for committing the trespass must pay compensation. It is like if your neighbour's dog comes and poops in your front yard or bite your child you are entitled to demand compensation besides demanding that the neighbour restrain the dog so that it doesn't trespass in the future. A logical extension of Karnataka's argument that the cauvery waters are its own to do so as it pleases is that it must also take realistic steps to ensure that not one drop of water from cauvery flows into the borders of TN and if does, pay warehousing charges till such time somebody comes along and buys it and removes it from the warehouse (in this case, the Mettur Dam). Cauvery waters is a product market which can be realistically described as a bilateral monopoly (one buyer and one seller). I suppose TN would be willing to pay a reasonable price for the water when it chooses to consume it (measured by the quantum of water release at the Mettur Dam) and till then Karnataka must pay warehousing charges for keeping it stored in Mettur Dam.
Disclosure: I happen to for the moment, live in a part of TN. But otherwise do not own any agricultural land in areas served by Cauvery downstream or any agricultural land for that matter.

maraghu · Post by **maraghu** » 13 Sep 2016 14:47

This article gives a detailed explanation on the history of How the formula for sharing was arrived at :

http://thewire.in/65243/who-should-karn ... e-answers/

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 13 Sep 2016 15:11

I have been observing the cauvery water dispute for a long time. One constant has been that whenever the issue flares up, the sufferers have been common Tamil people in Bangalore.

Tamils in Bangalore have been the target of Kannada chauvinists. But always there would be calls for both the Tamils and Kannadigas for restraint. There are hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu, but 30% of population in Bangalore is Tamil.

My sympathy for Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala.

mnag · Post by **mnag** » 13 Sep 2016 15:46

TKiran wrote:I have been observing the cauvery water dispute for a long time. One constant has been that whenever the issue flares up, the sufferers have been common Tamil people in Bangalore.

Tamils in Bangalore have been the target of Kannada chauvinists. But always there would be calls for both the Tamils and Kannadigas for restraint. There are hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu, but 30% of population in Bangalore is Tamil.

My sympathy for Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala.

Fully agree. Sympathies to kannadigas who were subject to hooliganism on Monday in TN, Pondicherry. Throughout this crisis, both these people will face hard times. Goondas on both sides hold innocent people hostage during such crisis

Hope it starts raining soon

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 13 Sep 2016 15:48

The Cauvery river basin is a water-deficient one. With a total average annual run-off of 790 tmcft, the total demanded quantity of water is 1,135 tmcft. This implies that whatever may be the method of ‘justice’, there is bound to be a shortfall.
The water utilisation level at the Cauvery basin is the highest among all rivers in the country. As much as 90 percent of the basin had been exploited by the early 1990s. Thereafter, it was all about limited water availability, multiple user, increased agricultural activity and diverted land use shrinking the basin further.
........

The Cauvery conflict involves ‘re-sharing of a resource that is already being fully utilised.’ The solution demands a different approach and a new pattern in thinking. Some of this has been repeatedly tried but rarely discussed in the mainstream.
With the history of the dispute crossing 100 years, the list of ecological and scientific solutions has been longer.

Untangling the Cauvery Dispute: Manage Demand, Not Supply
Create an additional storage reservoir to store overflows from a healthy monsoon year to a drought year.
Transfer of water from the Godavari river and from the west flowing coastal rivers of Karnataka into the Cauvery basin.
The states in dispute tailor their agricultural economy i.e. drop one crop season. Reduce cultivation of water guzzling crops like paddy and sugarcane. Sugarcane crops and liquor factories demand water. Growing less sugarcane and more food crops along Karnataka can solve the crisis to a great extent.
Let Neerkattis, the traditional water managers find a solution. A Neerkatti is a traditional water expert.With no political authority, he has community-driven administrative power. Water managers still play crucial roles in states like Uttarakhand.
Stop managing rivers as per the colonial agreements. Water be brought in the Concurrent list of legislative subjects from the State list, so that the disputes can be decided upon by the Centre and not just the state governments.
In 1924, in a settlement, Tamil Nadu got a bigger share of water, since in the colonial times, it was the most significant and the leading agricultural state. But Karnataka and it’s start-up capital Bengaluru has seen a manifold increase in its water consumption in the last few decades. Now it demands more water and there is no way the right can be settled.
The only way forward is to let nature take precedence over politics.

https://www.thequint.com/environment/20 ... management

I think for such a diminishing quantity of water & simultaneous exponential increase in use of water for non-agricultural uses by cities in the basin - managing demand should be central .

What ever be the cultural & historical claims which play a limited role in fixing longterm allotment of water, the water usage for that year should more importantly reflect the current necessary(i.e drinking water use) & sustainable water usage demands(micro irrigation for agriculture, and demand from Industries running on reduce-reuse-recycle paradigm).

If a central commission or arbitrator comes into play in the near future - the water(remaining after drinking water use) should be divided based on who is growing (borrowing modi's words) more crop per drop.Similarly industrial water use divided based on who is creating more value for drop of water used.

The water allotment formula should create a competition between the two states on who has brought more acreage under micro irrigation(drip& sprinkler) & who has created more industrial waste water & sewage water recycling plants in their industrial & urban clusters based on which more water should be allotted to that state.

On the absolute demand side the sugarcane grown using the flowing water irrigation method should be completely banned & water for paddy use allowed only in the most productive areas - ie criteria of absolute value of the crop for drop.

Without saving every drop of water which can be saved(via reduce-reuse-recycle paradigm) any discussion of desalination is moot.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 13 Sep 2016 16:11

mnag wrote:

Fully agree. Sympathies to kannadigas who were subject to hooliganism on Monday in TN, Pondicherry. Throughout this crisis, both these people will face hard times. Goondas on both sides hold innocent people hostage during such crisis

Hope it starts raining soon

Mnag ji, if you had fully agreed with me you would not have made the bolded statement.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 13 Sep 2016 16:22

Below are some interesting pieces of info - for readers of this thread

S Janakarajan, professorial consultant at the Madras Institute of Development Studies, is president of the South Asia Consortium for Interdisciplinary Water Resources Studies at Hyderabad. Behind the formation of the Cauvery Family in 2003, where farmer leaders from both Karnataka and Tamil Nadu came together to find a solution to the dispute, he spoke to Rediff.com

Karnataka upstream and Tamil Nadu downstream have over utilised water and both have large extent of the command area.

If you look back, you will see that the command area in Karnataka was around 300,000 to 400,000 acres initially while in Tamil Nadu, it was around 1.7 million to 1.8 million acres.

Today, the command area in Karnataka is over 2 million acres whereas in Tamil Nadu the irrigation command area has come down to 1.3 million acres.

The Kuruvai crop is virtually wiped out now (In TN). Even the samba crop, which coincides with the northeast monsoon, is becoming doubtful in the delta.

Coming face-to-face and talking is the only solution.

When people meet and talk, they become more humane.

I guarantee that when farmers of both states meet face-to-face and talk, there will not be any violence. They understand each other.

It was Tamil Nadu farmers (at the Cauvery Family meetings) who spoke of giving drinking water to Bangalore when the Mandya farmers in Karnataka opposed the idea.

I have seen this camaraderie with my own eyes.

I strongly feel that whether it's a good year or a bad year, both sides should share water.

Karnataka cannot use the Cauvery river as a drainage river, that is, releasing water only when the reservoir is full. This attitude should change.
Similarly, Tamil Nadu also cannot say we have used so much water for thousands of years and so we want that much now.

Read full interview at this Rediff.com link

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 13 Sep 2016 16:34

Sep 13 2016 : A Safe Passage

While the cadres of Tamizhaga Vaazhurimai Katchi (TVK) were staging a spirited demonstration at Gandhi Road, Kancheepuram on Monday against the attack on Tamils in Karnataka, a car with Karnataka registration happened to pass through.

Inside the car was a couple with a small child. Sensing the mood of the crowd, which was visibly upset with the treatment meted out to some Tamils in Karnataka, the driver, with folded hands, pleaded for safe passage.

To his surprise, the demonstrators obliged and let them go without much ado.

I hope we can see more similar acts like the one above (by a Tamil fringe group) from Kannadiga groups like Karnataka Vedike Rakshana & Vattal Nagaraj led groups who are assaulting TN vehicles & businesses in Karnataka . BTW - Vattal Nagaraj was sitting just to left of CM of Karnataka in today's meetings (show in TV News Channels) and was having a jovial attitude in those clips.

TVK would translate into English approximately as something like "Tamilian Livelihood Rights Party". Of course it is right now an extremist party that comes into picture to fight for 'Tamilian' causes and has had many of its cadres arrested for rioting in last 2 days.

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2016 16:39

TKiran wrote:
mnag wrote:

Fully agree. Sympathies to kannadigas who were subject to hooliganism on Monday in TN, Pondicherry. Throughout this crisis, both these people will face hard times. Goondas on both sides hold innocent people hostage during such crisis

Hope it starts raining soon
Mnag ji, if you had fully agreed with me you would not have made the bolded statement.

And why not ? Bashing up drivers of minibuses in Rameshwaram, vandalizing their buses , stripping them to their undies and making them swear on camera that Kaveri is for Tamilians alone is rank thuggery and those on the receiving end deserve all sympathy.

Come on, fire bombing Woodlands in Radhakrishnan Salai ? Why ? And what about this ? Protestors belonging to the Naam Tamilar Katchi Party in Tamil Nadu vandalised a bus from Karnataka and thrashed the driver for information on if he was ferrying Kannadiga passengers in his bus on Monday.

The trouble with the Periyar whatever group, the same set of thugs from Royapettah who after the "Ambedkar-Periyar" group incident IIT Madras, went around cutting the sacred threads of visible Brahmins in Mylapore , broke a Brahmin priest's arm and roughed up another . And those guys are not behind bars, but out and active and guess what, being professional hate mongers who are always looking for an angenda for their thuggery indulged in it and you saw the oversized reaction in KA.

Not that I hold a brief for the Kannada Rakshana Vedike and other groups here, but they and the thuggish Dravidian groups are a mirror image of each other . Nay, I hold the groups in TN more thuggish than the Vedikes and their ilk here. Now the thuggish Dravidian groups are not called out by the liberal/leftist/commies and media as being the thugs that they are but are rather couched as "rationalist" ,"anti brahmin" , "progressive" or whatever mislabeling and indeed indulged. That kind of mollycodling always has it's payback.

The "Periyar Whatever" thugs go around bashing up "Kannadigas", while paying obeisance to EV Ramaswamy Naicker "Periyar" who was a Kannadiga himself! And to think the "Dravidians" in "Dravidian Movement" were largely made up of Kannada, Telugu and Malayalam speakers in the former Madras presidency are now the target of the Periyar movement is indeed ironical, not that such subtelities will wash on those yahoos . But the schandenfreude of it all.. .. I will take it.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 13 Sep 2016 17:23

vina wrote:
TKiran wrote:
Mnag ji, if you had fully agreed with me you would not have made the bolded statement.
And why not ? Bashing up drivers of minibuses in Rameshwaram, vandalizing their buses , stripping them to their undies and making them swear on camera that Kaveri is for Tamilians alone is rank thuggery and those on the receiving end deserve all sympathy.

Come on, fire bombing Woodlands in Radhakrishnan Salai ? Why ? And what about this ? Protestors belonging to the Naam Tamilar Katchi Party in Tamil Nadu vandalised a bus from Karnataka and thrashed the driver for information on if he was ferrying Kannadiga passengers in his bus on Monday.

.
.
.

Vina Sir..... please go slow a bit.

In current round of Cauvery issue related violence - the spark was lit in Bengaluru when Karnataka Vedike Rakshana group thugs went and slammed,kicked and a lonely Tamil Engineering student in Bengaluru - for the content written by the student in Facebook. It would have been 'nice' - if they had not filmed this act of assaulting the lonely student .. but the thugs did it and posted it on Social Media too. Tamil groups & News channels took over from there, did some investigation and also reported that the Bengaluru police did not take any action against the thugs inspite of complaints.

Next morning - you had the New Woodlands Hotel incident where hooligans threw petrol bombs and then the Rameshwaram indicdent in TN. But police swung into action and arrested some of the hooligans who started the attacks in TN. The Rameswaram police even took the Karnataka tourist group to the police station - not for arresting them but to give them the safest while not exactly the most appropriate place to stay until they were sent back to Karnataka.

Read below News article from ' The Hindu ' on what the TN police did - to handle the Karnataka Registration Vehicles that were in TN.

5 Karnataka Vehicles Vandalized in TN

.
.
Following the sporadic violence, police escorted some vehicles bearing Karnataka registration numbers out of Tamil Nadu. Five tourist vehicles bound for Karnataka were escorted from Rameswaram to Bengaluru by armed police in a convoy on Monday evening.

Escort provided
Police said the vehicles — a tourist bus, two cars and two motorbikes (one with Tamil Nadu registration) — were escorted by the respective district and city police en route Bengaluru.

“An officer in the rank of Inspector was present in the team that piloted the convoy,” a police officer said. Similarly, KSRTC buses were escorted to a safe place in Madurai. “Otherwise, these buses are parked along the roadside,” a police officer said.

The CM of Karnataka mentioned that this assault of the student in BLR was a very small incident when compared to what had happened in New Woodlands hotel in Chennai (broken windows, tables .. & restarting of lunch service on same day ... luckily no human injuries ... maybe because the incident happened at 3 AM early morning). I am not sure that is a proper statement to make ... but then he is a career politician !.

The rest of your post on Dravidian guys, inability to reach IITs and etc - is Out-of-Topic for this thread.

Schmidt · Post by **Schmidt** » 13 Sep 2016 17:39

Lets not try to create some sort false equivalence between what happened in Karnataka and the situation in TN

The thugs who threw stones at Woodlands have been identified and arrested
Also Woodlands is right on Cathedral Road and on Amma's route to the Fort - so there is heavy police presence any way at all times

The TN /Chennai police immediately identified major Kannadiga owned properties and strengthened security quickly

There were just these 2 ( relatively minor ) incidents - security was tightened up fast

Unlike Karnataka / BLR , where the police were pretty much absent or even turned a blind eye to the mobs that went on a frenzy

The Karnataka govt probably thought that its better to let the mobs take out their ire and cool off a bit , so that their anger towards the state govt would die down eventually

The centre too reacted quite late - absolutely no pro activity in calming down the situation and dousing the fires quickly

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 13 Sep 2016 17:44

Respected vinaji, what an irony, you are a Tambram, living in Bangalore, Kerala for the reason of great weather, supporting the Kannada chauvinists, you sure are living in 80's.

Times have changed, smell the kumbakonam digidi kaappi please, I can give many more anecdotal evidence of what Kannadigas did to Tamils in 1992, but I have painstakingly collected some data, to analyze the problem. The data may not be provable because I collected the data from Karnataka state government officials, only by mouth.

Here's the analysis of the data that I collected. Bangalore, Kerala is at the very bottom end of Karnataka state, 50 km to North or 70km to East you get Andhra, 10 km to South you get Tamilnadu. In 70's hosur was as big and industrialized as Bangalore, in fact, Bangalore was nothing but BEL and HAL and HMT, but nothing else. Coming to the data, Hosur was 50% Telugu naidu(who spoke Tamil), and 20% Telugu Reddy (who spoke Kannada) in early 70's, naidu's because of shere numbers pushed the Reddy's towards Bangalore, and Reddy's literally migrated to Bangalore, and become land owners and increasingly thuggish. Though equal number of naidu's also migrated to Bangalore, they were not successful as land owners, they settled in between Hosur and Bangalore. In those days more than 50% population of Bangalore was Tamils. So the main competition to Reddy s was Tamils but Tamils mainly depended on entrepreneurship than land owning and were reluctant to part away with their lands, as their lands were also useful for their entrepreneurship.

1991-92 was God given chance for the Reddy's to instigate violence against Tamils through bangarappa. There was mass migration of Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala towards Coimbatore in those days due to terror instilled into them.

By 2000 Reddy's realized that Bangalore has great potential for exponential growth, whenever opportunity presented, they would provoke the Kannada thugs to terrorize Tamils, today Bangalore has only 25-30% population of Tamils. Kannadigas (in the true sense) have always been marginal players in the real estate business of Bangalore. Bangalore has never been part of Karnataka in the true sense, as it's far removed from the core of Karnataka.

Even today it's the Reddys who instigate the Kannada chauvinists against the Tamils. Your anecdotal experiences are far and few, the core issue is real estate of Bangalore, Kerala.

Believe me there are very few Kannadigas in Bangalore and hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu than what you want us to believe.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 13 Sep 2016 18:26

TN has had a history of seccessionism.Rajiv was blown to pieces in TN. Some TN politicians have spewed hatred on samskritam,vedas,ramayanam,brahmanas,hindi.No one has had more unreasonable stand on reservations and blackmailed central govt on reservations,identity politics.

Yet in a very profound way TN challenges Hindu nationalist claims.As the Late Prof PV Indiresan,former Director IITM(a kannadiga brahmana and a strident critic of quota politics) noted TN is the last bastion of dravida people against Arya hegemony in India.(We will ignore for time being the social tensions in dravidian society)

The issues are not simple.Its about arya-dravida,dravida-tamizh,claims of Hindu nationalism.Each state has its own integrity but KA 'succumbed' to Indo-Arya worldview during Agastya-Rama yugas long back.The dravidian substratum has rebelled.Mahishasura of mahisha uru-mysuru(erumai=buffalo naadu of sangam literature),Basava are historical/puraanic accounts of push backs.Vaatapi was digested by Agastya.

As the perceptive tamizh writer maalan wrote in his preface to vairamuthus poetic oeuvre,we are living in the sangam of many yugas,many identities.

Santosh Dina was a cht%ya.Born and brought up in Bengaluru,he called kannadigas ugly and beggars.It was his post which triggered goondaism from kannadiga goons.I met a tamizh girl 25 years old from Bengaluru cantonment(born and brought up there) who said she did not know kannada.Maaran of Bengaluru tamizh sangam claimed that he was from bengaluru,but not from KA.

Tamils have a much more robust sub nationalism because of the classical tamizh tradition.OTOH,a badaga in udagamandalam or a kannadiga in hosur is much more circumspect given karnataka is aligned with hindutva.

Yet there are genuine dravida-s in TN like Kolathur mani of dravidar viduthalai kazhagam(who oppose brahmanism/vedas) who believe in dravidian unity.Periyaar was a kannada speaking balija.Amma as a mysore hudugi has been sensitive to kannada speakers in hosur or udagamandalam within the worldview of dravidian sub nationalism.OTOH she used Naam tamizhar to attack telugu tamils of DMK.Naam tamizhar goons attacked Woodlands/buses in Rameshwaram.

There are also vibhishana types in TN, and humanists of ancient tamizh spiritual/cultural traditions who have no dogma to grind.This is a great strength of tamizh people.Finally,vokkaligas and vellala gounders of adjoining regions of KA/TN are sort of cousins.

Arya means culture of Aryavarta,nothing to do with central asia,nordics,Proto Indo Europeans etc

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 13 Sep 2016 18:29

TKiran wrote:
mnag wrote:

Fully agree. Sympathies to kannadigas who were subject to hooliganism on Monday in TN, Pondicherry. Throughout this crisis, both these people will face hard times. Goondas on both sides hold innocent people hostage during such crisis

Hope it starts raining soon
Mnag ji, if you had fully agreed with me you would not have made the bolded statement.

What is your intent sir? That whatever happened to the victim is justified?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 13 Sep 2016 18:39

The question is why should kannadigas allow reddys to take lead?

Reddys of Bengaluru consider Bengaluru as home just like DMK telugus(karunanidhi,napolean,KN Nehru,Arcot Veerasamy,KKSSR Ramachandran,Vaiko)consider TN as home or reddys of bellary consider KA as home.Thats the incredible capacity of telugu people to assimilate into KA and TN.

One cannot blame reddys alone for violence against tamils.kannadigas have acqueisced in that violence just as all political parties got their share in bellary.

Hosur is more telugu than kannadiga but kannada presence is substantial in hosur,thali and dhenkanikotta(ridiculously called thenkanikottai).The best solution might be to give hosur taluka to andhra.

Is hamam mein sab nange hain as they say in hindi.

All three dravidian linguistic groups want their share of loot.kannadigas are late comers.In fact this is the human predicament in North India too(the aryavarta of Itihaasa-s and puraana-s)

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 13 Sep 2016 18:50

prashanth wrote: What is your intent sir? That whatever happened to the victim is justified?

Prashanth ji, the intent is to say that == doesn't exist. You are not able to catch the signal in the noise, that 'aryavartha', 'dravida', 'Tamil nationalism' etc are all noise and smoke screens, the fire is the real estate of Bangalore.

It is like this, "important few, trivial many" or in statistical terminology, "20-80" rule, while brainstorming.

The intent is to find the root cause.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 13 Sep 2016 18:54

TKiran wrote:Respected vinaji, what an irony, you are a Tambram, living in Bangalore, Kerala for the reason of great weather, supporting the Kannada chauvinists, you sure are living in 80's.

Times have changed, smell the kumbakonam digidi kaappi please, I can give many more anecdotal evidence of what Kannadigas did to Tamils in 1992, but I have painstakingly collected some data, to analyze the problem. The data may not be provable because I collected the data from Karnataka state government officials, only by mouth.

Here's the analysis of the data that I collected. Bangalore, Kerala is at the very bottom end of Karnataka state, 50 km to North or 70km to East you get Andhra, 10 km to South you get Tamilnadu. In 70's hosur was as big and industrialized as Bangalore, in fact, Bangalore was nothing but BEL and HAL and HMT, but nothing else. Coming to the data, Hosur was 50% Telugu naidu(who spoke Tamil), and 20% Telugu Reddy (who spoke Kannada) in early 70's, naidu's because of shere numbers pushed the Reddy's towards Bangalore, and Reddy's literally migrated to Bangalore, and become land owners and increasingly thuggish. Though equal number of naidu's also migrated to Bangalore, they were not successful as land owners, they settled in between Hosur and Bangalore. In those days more than 50% population of Bangalore was Tamils. So the main competition to Reddy s was Tamils but Tamils mainly depended on entrepreneurship than land owning and were reluctant to part away with their lands, as their lands were also useful for their entrepreneurship.

1991-92 was God given chance for the Reddy's to instigate violence against Tamils through bangarappa. There was mass migration of Tamils of Bangalore, Kerala towards Coimbatore in those days due to terror instilled into them.

By 2000 Reddy's realized that Bangalore has great potential for exponential growth, whenever opportunity presented, they would provoke the Kannada thugs to terrorize Tamils, today Bangalore has only 25-30% population of Tamils. Kannadigas (in the true sense) have always been marginal players in the real estate business of Bangalore. Bangalore has never been part of Karnataka in the true sense, as it's far removed from the core of Karnataka.

Even today it's the Reddys who instigate the Kannada chauvinists against the Tamils. Your anecdotal experiences are far and few, the core issue is real estate of Bangalore, Kerala.

Believe me there are very few Kannadigas in Bangalore and hardly any Kannadigas in Tamilnadu than what you want us to believe.

Wondraful

So Reddy's are the hidden joos ?!
Instigating the less aryan (kannadigas i.e anglosaxon) against the more aryan (Tamizh - i.e Nordic-Germanic) to precipitate WW1-Bangalore in 1992?

TKiran avargal,
Please to also give an herrowic account of how the same dutty joos(i.e Reddys(sephardic joo) & Naidus(ashkenazi joo)) were thwarted in their attempt to grab Chennai and had to run back with lifted lungis in their hand back to their jooish ghetto of Rayalaseema under the ferocity of uber Aryan Tamizh vesthi warriors successfully fighting a herrowic rearguard battle of bulge to successfully stave off the attempt to capture Chennai.
Their plan was to subjugate Tamizh aryan uber mensh originally scripted by the dutty sabra joos(northies) executed by local Reddy-Naidu joos as the internal collaborators(since they composed 40% population of Chennai) under the surreptitious guise of jooish dialects(ex: Telugu) based state reorganization of Aryan homeland(madras presidency) since 1955.

With this historical past full of glorious sacrifice i resolve that in this WW2-Bangalore of 2016 the more Aryan & less Aryan should stop killing each other as per the dutty Jooish masterplan and capture the new Jewish outpost of Sricity as per the command of Fuhrer Seeman. Sricity which like Hosur was planned to mooch off the wealth of the great aryan cities of Bangalore & Chennai has to be absorbed as lebensraum for aryan mensh.

heil Seeman !

ps:When a tamizh ubermensh is cajoling a tamizh untermensh "brahmanical" who supposedly flew the coop, to think less of the past antiBrahmanical oppression of (DK) SS gangs while giving advise to sip kaapi - one gets to hear new & original twists & takes on a shared history.
Now that svenkat saar too has joined in with his insight peering back to the age of saptrishi's i must say the party has started.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 13 Sep 2016 19:09

TKiran wrote: Prashanth ji, the intent is to say that == doesn't exist. You are not able to catch the signal in the noise, that 'aryavartha', 'dravida', 'Tamil nationalism' etc are all noise and smoke screens, the fire is the real estate of Bangalore.

It is like this, "important few, trivial many" or in statistical terminology, "20-80" rule, while brainstorming.

The intent is to find the root cause.

At the very least there is an '==' in the pain and humiliation of victims in both states?
I disbelieve your real estate story. Having lived in this city since birth, I haven't noticed any animosity between the two communities you have mentioned. The 'root cause' is shortage of water, and plenty of politics.