Indian Education System

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 May 2013 19:12

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech ... 837328.cms

still all the top 10s were IIT. none of the other institutions are listed in the top 5. there is no private competition at all.. how does Tatas and Reliance expect them to be leading in tech., especially if their investment in r&d is pathetic at a demonstrable levels.

imo, industries should come out in supporting edus... invest heavy, and have a chartered plan.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 02 May 2013 20:23

sad state of affairs. middle and lower middle class needs to pull back on the engineering degree obsession and allow kids to pursue what they like and do best...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 674356.ece

Engineering colleges have released notifications on fee structure for the new academic year. There is no fine print here, however.

In order to avoid censure, private and deemed institutes resort to levying additional charges under miscellaneous heads, after the academic year begins.

Sreedevi Arjunan, a second-year computer science student from an engineering college in Manimangalam, said she paid Rs 3.2 lakh as capitation fee, besides the tuition fee of Rs. 2 lakh for two years.

“Immediately after joining, we were asked to pay Rs. 16,000 for induction, uniforms and starter lessons, and Rs. 19,000 for books. But we were given just six books and a set of notes that our seniors had used. The books have to be returned at the end of the academic year,” she said.

K. Selvakumar, student of engineering college in Kundrathur, said he was charged Rs. 12,000 for books and Rs. 15,000 for ‘extra-curricular activities’. “When I wished to leave the college a week after joining, they said my class XII marksheets would be returned only if I paid the entire course fees of Rs. 3.5 lakh,” he said.

Last year, self-financing colleges were asked to charge students no more than Rs. 40,000 for non-accredited courses and Rs. 45,000 for accredited ones. A management seat was priced at Rs. 70,000. Most private colleges, however, charge much more than the stipulated amount.

An Anna University official said the University could interfere only in the academic matters of affiliated colleges. Two years ago, the government had formed a committee to review and inspect colleges that were suspected to be charging excess fees from students.

The committee’s report said nearly 50 of the 80 reviewed colleges charging excess money from students. Sources said a few of these colleges were asked to reimburse the excess amount collected but none of the institutes were strictly dealt with.

In many private colleges, levying fine is yet another money-making affair. “There are ‘sudden’ inspections when the entire class is pulled up for not wearing the proper kind of shoes. Everyone is asked to pay up Rs. 100 each. In four years of college life, a student ends up paying at least Rs. 10,000 as fine amount,” said Selvakumar.

In many colleges, absence of a day means paying Rs. 50 as fine. “We are also fined for not dressing properly, which may include wearing shirts with two pockets,” said T. Anbu, student of a college in Palanchur.

Additionally, carrying laptops, mobile phones or even hard disks can attract a fine of Rs. 100. Talking to girls, hanging out in the canteen for more than 20 minutes or not bringing the ID card — there is a fine for everything, Anbu said.

Many colleges also ask students to pay an annual recreation-sports fee of Rs. 5,000. “Our college ground is shared by three other institutions and there is hardly any space to play sports. Besides, we have no trainer or a P.T. period,” said Anjali Jaishankar, a student of an engineering college in Padappai.

These colleges also charge students around Rs. 22,000 a year for compulsory bus facility. “The college cites safety as the reason for not allowing bikes on campus. But why can’t we be allowed to use public transport? The bus fees is unnecessary expenditure for third- and final-year students as often we don’t have to go to college because of project work,” said Neerav Jain, student of a college in Kelambakkam.

But having to pay thousands for poor-quality mess food is the worst, said students. “Our college does not have a kitchen. We are supplied packed meals from a hotel and it is not worth paying Rs. 8,000 a semester,” said Ranjani Sreekumar who studies in a Padur college.

Last year, a college in Nemmili asked its 400 eligible students to pay Rs. 1,000 each to sit for the aptitude test of the only company that came for placements. Five students were offered jobs.

“For final-year students who don’t get placed in companies, colleges offer to organise job fairs. Students are asked to pay Rs. 2,000 each for this. But, not even three students qualified for the interviews,” said R. Kannagi, a student of the college.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 May 2013 20:57

This is not necessarily bad.
Compared to the world, engineering education expenses in India are quite low.
True a large number of engineers will never be engineers,
but that cohort of educated folks will then percolate into all other endeavors,
from management to sales to marketing to teaching to civil service.

It is good to have people who have a technical and reality based approach in more fields.
Though other folks will also a be present. A good mix is always more productive.
Right now India lacks a technical base in many of our professions.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 May 2013 13:28

Interesting article:
An Indian education?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 May 2013 14:05

so long as there is not a abundance of jobs and clear job path for liberal arts and STEM people, what are they supposed to do? atleast some can use their money or brains to go and settle abroad.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 06 May 2013 21:17

IIT Gandhinagar is on a recruitment drive, with the diro in town next week. They seem to have an open advt too on their website. The reason for the visit is cited as to allay the fears of senior alumni to the opening of new campuses. Plan to attend as it will be fun to watch the Senior balding Bataks whine about brand and privilege.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 May 2013 21:23

Singha wrote:so long as there is not a abundance of jobs and clear job path for liberal arts and STEM people, what are they supposed to do? atleast some can use their money or brains to go and settle abroad.

In fact, hiring of MS, pee-chaddi even from IITs has declined as ITvity India claims there are no research jobs and is doubling down on coolie-giri for western companies. While chipanda begs/copies/borrows its way to innovation and will soon learn to do its own real innovation, our ITvity babus are acting like village mahajans content with exploiting the masses. With this type of trend I don't see Indian ITvity surviving after the next decade since they are purely competing on the basis of cost. Then who will pay for all those 5Cr+ bungalows in Bangalore, Kerala?

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 06 May 2013 21:46

Raja Bose wrote: In fact, hiring of MS, pee-chaddi even from IITs has declined as ITvity India claims there are no research jobs and is doubling down on coolie-giri for western companies.

Was looking at faculty profiles at Department of Molecular and Human Genetics in BHU, With such in-breeding, how can we expect innovation and hence research jobs?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 06 May 2013 23:43

An Indian education?
Thane Richard finds his study abroad experience in India an enormous disappointment.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 07 May 2013 05:46

Bade wrote:IIT Gandhinagar is on a recruitment drive, with the diro in town next week.....Plan to attend as it will be fun to watch the Senior balding Bataks whine about brand and privilege.

bataks....!?! is that a play on maindhaks?

lol

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 06:23

Nobody can live on past glories and branding....unless things keep moving nobody can save any industry.
I have posted about this in nukkad, a chinese co is trying to take biggies like siemens and ge medical on high value products in medical imaging. Being a national asset they have vast domestic market. Now they are also opening a r&d branch in bay area and already poaching talent from cos in that space.
These are the kind of product initiatives that have long term impact, not doubling down on sales forces and account managers to run 1000s of people oriented model....or even worse have committees tasked to figure out how to innovate lol.

...other than financial industry they dont seem to have critical mass of people in sales, mkting and development who understand any industry well enough to develop new products. And the people who do can always get better in specialized cos of that industry itself esp mnc odc.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 May 2013 06:25

Following is an excerpt of an article by a Dalit intellectual from a Telugu news paper:

http://www.suryaa.com/opinion/edit-page/article-134109
...
సామాజికశాస్త్ర పట్టభద్రుల్లో ప్రతీ పది మందిలో ఒకరు, ఇంజినీరింగ్‌ చదవిన వారిలో నలుగురే ఉద్యోగార్హత కలిగి ఉంటున్నట్లు అధ్యయనాలు చాటుతున్నాయి. ఇటీవల వైద్య విద్య కూడా ప్రామాణికతను కోల్పోతున్నది. దేశ వ్యాప్తంగా 90 శాతం కళాశాలలు, 70 శాతం విశ్వ విద్యాలయాల్లో నాసిప్రమాణాలున్నాయి. ముఖ్యంగా విశ్వవిద్యాలయాల్లో చేరుతున్న బీసీ, ఎస్సీ, ఎస్టీ కులాల విద్యార్థుల్లో మరింత వెనకబాటుతనం అగుపిస్తున్నది. ప్రభుత్వం, విద్యాశాఖ వారు, ఓసీ కులాల వారు ఒక పద్ధతి ప్రకారం పనిగట్టుకొని ఈ వర్గాలకు నాణ్యమైన విద్య అందకుండా చేస్తున్నందు వల్లనే ఈ పరిస్థితి ఏర్పడింది. ప్రభుత్వానికి సుస్పష్టంగా తెలిసే విద్యా ప్రమాణాలు పతనం అవుతున్నాయి. తెలిసోతెలియకో బీసీ, ఎస్సీ, ఎస్టీ అధ్యాపకులు, విద్యార్థులు ప్రభుత్వ విధానాలపట్ల తాన తందానా అంటున్నారు. విషయ పరిజ్ఞానం, ఒంట బట్టక పోయినా వస్తున్న పట్టాలను, ఉద్యోగాలను చూసి ఈ వర్గాల వారు మురిసిపోతున్నందునే ఈ పరిస్థితి ఏర్పడింది.

Research shows that only one in every 10 social science students and one in every 4 engineering students are having real employable skills. The academic standards of 90% colleges and 70% universities nationwide are below par. Most importantly there is visible (academic) backwardness in BC, SC and ST students. This situation came to this because Government, Education ministry/dept and Upper Castes are making sure that quality education is not made available in a systemic manner. Govt is very clear about these falling standards. Knowingly or unknowingly BC/SC/ST (read Dalit) professors and students are supporting such Government policies. This is because these sections are happy with degree certificates and the jobs that come with those certificates even though they do not have any true knowledge.
...
ఓసీ కులాల వారు తమ పిల్లల్ని విదేశీ విశ్వవిద్యాలయాలకు, దేశంలోని ప్రైవేట్‌ విద్యా సంస్థలకు పంపిస్తున్నారు. లేదా వారి అదుపు ఆజ్ఞల్లో ఉన్న సంస్థల్లో చేర్చుతున్నారు. సాధారణ ప్రభుత్వ విశ్వవిద్యాలయాలను వారు బీసీ, ఎస్సీ, ఎస్టీ, మైనార్టీ విద్యార్థులకు వదిలేశారు. వారు వదిలేసిన స్థానాలను వీరు మహాప్రసాదంగా స్వీకరించి తృప్తిపడుతున్నారు. ఉస్మానియా, ఆంధ్ర, వెంకటేశ్వర, కాకతీయ తదితర విశ్వవిద్యాలయాల్లో చేరుతున్న సాధారణ పిజి విద్యా ర్థులు ఎవరు అనే విషయాన్ని గమనిస్తే ఈ విషయం తెలుస్తుంది. వీటిల్లో చేరుతున్న వెయ్యి మంది విద్యార్థుల్లో పట్టుమని పది మంది కూడా బ్రాహ్మణ, రెడ్డి, కమ్మ, వెలమ విద్యార్థులు ఉండడం లేదు.

Upper castes are sending their children to international schools and/or private institutions in India. Or they are sending them to the institutions that are under the control of upper castes. They left common universities to BC/SC/ST/Minority students. These categories are happy with what upper castes left. This becomes evident if one analyzes who is joining Osmania, Andhra, Venkateswara, Kakatiya (universities in Andhra Pradesh) etc universities. Not even 10 students out 1000 belong to Brahmin, Reddy, Kamma and Velama students in these universities

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 06:27

Bade wrote:IIT Gandhinagar is on a recruitment drive, with the diro in town next week. They seem to have an open advt too on their website. The reason for the visit is cited as to allay the fears of senior alumni to the opening of new campuses. Plan to attend as it will be fun to watch the Senior balding Bataks whine about brand and privilege.

What percentage of iit capex and opex is covered by alumni donation? My guess is very little...neither are these balding arrogant taklas going to come and take up teaching . And its a new iit.

So why does the diro need to spend cycles proving his secularism and pancheel to these set of folks? Have roadshows in us univs with good number of phd candidates imo who are interested in teaching.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 May 2013 06:52

Singha wrote:Have roadshows in us univs with good number of phd candidates imo who are interested in teaching.

Few months back I met one of the good scientists who worked at the Rockefeller university in structural biology. He had very good publications -several in reputed journals like Cell, Nature etc. He was seriously looking for faculty positions in Bangalore based univs, incl. IISc. Was prejudiced against it. Finally he got a faculty position at NIH and moved on. I know few cases like these. But, I also know cases who were earlier a product of these institutions having favorable response.

I bet there will be numerous good candidates willing to go back and teach - the system just have to be transparant. I myself wrote to IIT-Hyderabad head few times (couple of years back) when the institution was starting up and I had zero response. Not even an information on how to apply. I had decent qualifications to get into (or at least a reply). The problem is these new institutions have old balding professors from original IIT's as heads (too much of politics to appoint young dynamic faculties) and they are just how they are!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 May 2013 07:07

Singha wrote:...neither are these balding arrogant taklas going to come and take up teaching . And its a new iit.

If they are already tenured profs. in massa, there is very little incentive for them to teach at IITs due to the eco-system. If they are from industry (where quantum of D >> quantum of R), they, in all probability, are under-equipped and severely out-of-date to teach at IITs.

So why does the diro need to spend cycles proving his secularism and pancheel to these set of folks? Have roadshows in us univs with good number of phd candidates imo who are interested in teaching.

diro might be doing both, no?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 May 2013 07:21

kasthuri wrote:I myself wrote to IIT-Hyderabad head few times (couple of years back) when the institution was starting up and I had zero response. Not even an information on how to apply.

IITH is being mentored by IITM. It is possible that posts are ear-marked for the students of IITM professors. That is SOP all over the world - not just India. Paper publications, entire journals and conferences, are sometimes reserved for a clique. That is the nature of politics. Hopefully its seepage into academia is far lower than in other areas. Even in academia, humanities are rife with politics both in the small (i.e. inter-personal) and at large (societal). It is just that academia in general and science/math subset in specific, admits measures of goodness which are orthogonal to politics.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 07:32

there is a good population of indic post-docs in europe in places like uk, sweden,germany and some in east asia like taiwan,japan,singapore,thailand esp in science based fields who could be a avenue to tap. not everything needs to be sourced from massaland.

the nepotism is all over the place. it is alleged "name deleted" industrial r&d in blr has some links to IISC and only their phd are favoured over others. since such HR data is never public (who came from where), it all exists in allegations and word of mouth only...easy to cover up any nepotism.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 May 2013 08:00

matrimc wrote: IITH is being mentored by IITM. It is possible that posts are ear-marked for the students of IITM professors. That is SOP all over the world - not just India. Paper publications, entire journals and conferences, are sometimes reserved for a clique. That is the nature of politics. Hopefully its seepage into academia is far lower than in other areas. Even in academia, humanities are rife with politics both in the small (i.e. inter-personal) and at large (societal). It is just that academia in general and science/math subset in specific, admits measures of goodness which are orthogonal to politics.

Agreed. But I would bet in-breeding is far more and excessive there than in massa. As you may know almost all univs here have a policy of not recruiting immediate students. How many are there in India? I am sure such policies are starting up. But we have a long way to go. And that is the start of the trouble.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 08:11

but sir Massa has 50 top notch univs for people to x-fertilize. suppose you have Phd from a iit/iisc here, there are very limited academic places of such level to get into - mostly just others in the same small subset.
plus dept sizes are quite smaller here - a EECS dept like berkeley or mit could well have 100 permanent profs and 100 post docs & 50 phd candidates, here there could be 20, 5,5.

the chessboard is a lot smaller here, hence the tendency to inbreed. people also probably like to settle closer to their home base vs Massa where people are more mobile and not particularly attached to "cultural / linguistic roots" over work prospects. for lady profs there is the added pressure of being where the husband is employed.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 May 2013 08:36

^^^Completely agree. I undersand we cannot compare ladoos to jilaebees. But, we cannot be okay with the current scenario. Probably, we should start transferring faculties to other institutions like a bank job. Otherwise, I don't see any way out!

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2013 08:44

SriKumar wrote:
Bade wrote:IIT Gandhinagar is on a recruitment drive, with the diro in town next week.....Plan to attend as it will be fun to watch the Senior balding Bataks whine about brand and privilege.
bataks....!?! is that a play on maindhaks? lol

I had not heard of either usage during my days as pseudo-PGs living with UGs in the madrassa. Heard it for the first time here on BRF from our own vina-saar onlee. But it does sound funny.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2013 09:12

Transferring faculties as in involuntary transfers can be disastrous. I think they tried that in WB with Presidency College faculty and it was not pretty in the end is what I recall. All from the grapevine only. Maybe, rahul_m or someone with ears close to happenings there can comment on it more.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2013 09:20

Singha, all IIT diros travel abroad for a combination of recruitment PR and meeting alumnus and fund raising drives in combination with conference visits etc. IITM diro used to do that. There was a growth fund with a target of $36 mil spearheaded by none other than Kris from Infosys. Not sure if they met the targets. But you are right, the balding seniors conscious of their class and deep pockets need to do more for their Alma mater, before claiming exclusive rights and ears to management. It was interesting to note that this effort was being led by a MSc alum at IIT-M and not the much vaunted pure of the pure UG breed

with many more success stories.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2013 10:10

Many moons ago there was some discussion on metrics for research potential amid discussions on comparative quality of Indian institutions versus others and even with UG/PG differences. This one is an interesting analysis of a similar issue and dangers of over dependence on such metrics in such studies.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/PT.3.1928

If metrics are to be integrated into the career advancement process, they must be better tested, and specific issues must be addressed: What aspects of a career are predictable? What ingredients make a model robust? How often is a given model’s prediction wrong, and what impact do errors have on the careers of scientists, especially young ones already burdened by risk?1 Without clear answers to these and other questions, the unexamined use of quantitative indicators can do real harm not only to scientists who may be shown the door based on bogus evaluations but to the endeavor of science as a whole.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 10:22

for a more TFPE comparison (P=pork), I looked up the faculty list and their background in shanghai jiaotong univ in CS dept. I checked just the first page but got multiple hits on self-alumni , few from nearby nanjing and few from harbin and xian which are much far away.
http://english.seiee.sjtu.edu.cn/englis ... 1-1-20.htm

I suspect if we check up fudan, peking and tsinghua faculty lists there would be significant numbers from their local cachement area and self-alumni because they face some of the same issues we do in lack of khan style massive width in high level academia.

but they are expanding massively, throwing money at all problems and going for large public univ model of khan vs the cottage industry scale of 20 acre ashrams IIM and the old "oh we 5 are the greatest" of the original IITs before the current expansion.

they are working hard and to a plan. we better get rid of ego and start moving the average levels up which can only happen when elitist attitudes are curbed.

obsession and worship of khan being stopped is a good place to start

we can be humble and figure out what works for our level of economic development ie learn from folks like china, soko, taiwan, brazil, hungary wherever we see pools of excellence and similar histories.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2013 11:02

More ghee into fire and food for thought for Indian planners...

http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/PT.3.1973
China prepares to spend billions on science and technology

Sixteen science and technology projects will receive big infrastructure investments in China, the country’s State Council announced on 23 February. The competitively selected upgrades and new facilities focus on such topics as energy, nuclear waste, materials science, ocean surveys, and astroparticle physics (see the table on page 22).
The projects are part of China’s “mid- to long-term perspectives for the development of major national infrastructures in science and technology” stretching out to 2030. Through the end of the current five-year planning period in 2015, the total investment is expected to be about CNY19 billion (about $3 billion), more than three times the amount in the previous five-year plan. Individual facilities will get up to CNY2 billion. The construction money comes from the National Development and Reform Commission. Ongoing research is covered by other sources, says Lu Yu, a senior scientist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Physics, so the new large projects do not threaten funding for laboratory-scale science.

Look at the list where they are putting all their efforts. We too have similar programs, it is the level of money thrown at which may make the difference.

Science and technology infrastructure gets the nod in China’s 12th five-year plan: Mid- to long-term projects ranked by priority
1. Ocean-floor scientific survey network
2. High-energy synchrotron test facility
3. Accelerator-driven subcritical reactor research facility
4. Synergetic Extreme Condition User Facility
5. High-flux heavy ion accelerator
6. High-efficiency, low-carbon gas turbine testing facility
7. Large High Altitude Air Shower Observatory
8. Future network experimental facility
9. Outer-space environment simulating facility
10. Translational medicine research facility
11. China Antarctic Observatory
12. Precision gravity measurement research facility
13. Large-scale low-speed wind tunnel
14. Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility Phase-II Beamline Project
15. Model animal phenotype and heredity research facility
16. Earth system digital simulator

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 May 2013 12:01

and they have laid the groundwork in manpower by sponsoring a huge number of univ teachers over the last decade to go get MS and Phd from US univs, plus quietly pick up whatever manuals/IP they can on the way out

those guys had a amazing network among themselves....any past question paper or hard take home problem could be outed overnight by consulting seniors....expensive books downloaded at night from chinese sites...and best thing is if the prof gets angry with something just smile blankly and pretend no good understand engrish.

they sure have a "system" to game the khan system and it delivers results! only suspicious sdre profs had the mentality to probe deeper ...

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 May 2013 20:26

Bade wrote:More ghee into fire and food for thought for Indian planners...

http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/PT.3.1973
China prepares to spend billions on science and technology
Sixteen science and technology projects will receive big infrastructure investments in China, the country’s State Council announced on 23 February. The competitively selected upgrades and new facilities focus on such topics as energy, nuclear waste, materials science, ocean surveys, and astroparticle physics (see the table on page 22).
The projects are part of China’s “mid- to long-term perspectives for the development of major national infrastructures in science and technology” stretching out to 2030. Through the end of the current five-year planning period in 2015, the total investment is expected to be about CNY19 billion (about $3 billion), more than three times the amount in the previous five-year plan. Individual facilities will get up to CNY2 billion. The construction money comes from the National Development and Reform Commission. Ongoing research is covered by other sources, says Lu Yu, a senior scientist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Physics, so the new large projects do not threaten funding for laboratory-scale science.
Look at the list where they are putting all their efforts. We too have similar programs, it is the level of money thrown at which may make the difference.

Science and technology infrastructure gets the nod in China’s 12th five-year plan: Mid- to long-term projects ranked by priority
1. Ocean-floor scientific survey network
2. High-energy synchrotron test facility
3. Accelerator-driven subcritical reactor research facility
4. Synergetic Extreme Condition User Facility
5. High-flux heavy ion accelerator
6. High-efficiency, low-carbon gas turbine testing facility
7. Large High Altitude Air Shower Observatory
8. Future network experimental facility
9. Outer-space environment simulating facility
10. Translational medicine research facility
11. China Antarctic Observatory
12. Precision gravity measurement research facility
13. Large-scale low-speed wind tunnel
14. Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility Phase-II Beamline Project
15. Model animal phenotype and heredity research facility
16. Earth system digital simulator

They are already big in biology. Beijing Genomics Institute has the world largest sequencing capacity with more than 128 Illumina Hiseq machines and churning out terabytes of data each day!

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 07 May 2013 20:28

^^^ Here the wiki on BGI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Genomics_Institute

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 May 2013 06:17

They are working hard to attract back big name sinic profs with fat paycheques and funds to build up things from scratch and be more in leadership position than being just another cog in wheel of the big foreign univs.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 10 May 2013 12:58

Singha wrote:and they have laid the groundwork in manpower by sponsoring a huge number of univ teachers over the last decade to go get MS and Phd from US univs, plus quietly pick up whatever manuals/IP they can on the way out

those guys had a amazing network among themselves....any past question paper or hard take home problem could be outed overnight by consulting seniors....expensive books downloaded at night from chinese sites...and best thing is if the prof gets angry with something just smile blankly and pretend no good understand engrish.

they sure have a "system" to game the khan system and it delivers results! only suspicious sdre profs had the mentality to probe deeper ...

True that. They compete viciously.

I have some Chinese friends. Good people, friendly upto a point. But to expect them to look out for you and think of your interests is fruitless.

They are best dealt with as normal maassans. Which means, friendly, good times, and social at the same time ultra-Individualistic.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 May 2013 22:16

Gurus please help.

My Littleone will be completing his undergrad next year. His major is math and minor is philosophy.

He wants to go into academics/research. I suggested him to go for a PhD program, probably in applied math (I don't think he will like that boring pure math stuff)

He thinks it is not easy to get finAid/scholorship for Phd programs. But my google search says different.

Really appreciate some guidance on how to approach/get fin aid. I will also search google and post reference material here.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 11 May 2013 23:19

Am assuming this is in the US? Typically Ph.D programs have more funding than MS because one does more indepth research during Ph.d, and research generally has funding. Not sure how the situation is in Math departments but I expecct the applied areas of Math departments to have funding. (Ph.D philosopy, I agree, research money might be low

We get free philosopy advice on several BRF threads, indic,advaitic, dvatic, sinic, manic, panic

).

Engineering and physics are two areas that rely heavily on mathematics to make sense of their physics. Am sure there is a lot of opportunity (and funding) in these areas but the degree certificate may/may not be a math major degree (unless the funding/research/ conducted within Math dept). Google 'numerical methods', computational methods, computational physics. A lot of phenomena are described by mathematical equations- for example fluid flow, economics, rocket flight, crash, electromagnetics, quantum physics, heat transfer, genetics, weather prediction.

Any of these areas will significantly benefit by better/improved mathematical models/equations to describe (and solve) the phenomena. Typically, there is money for research in these areas. One has to figure out which department has the money and how is it funded. BTW, what are his areas of interest in pure math and applied math? Does his school not have a MS/Phd program? It will give one a quick idea.

MurthyG · Post by **MurthyG** » 14 May 2013 05:43

RamaY garu,
It is actually easy to find funding for PhD programs compared to MS. However in Math it is more of GTA (teaching assistantships) are more common compared to the GRA (research Assitantships). From my knowledge almost all grads do get some type of TA ships in Math. Again as SriKumar ji mentioned, applied math grads have it easier in finding industry jobs whereas pure math grads are mostly restricted to Academia (not many positions here in US as it is pretty competitive unless some one is wanting to do a R2I to some IIT).
I would caution him that typically Math PhD is a long drawn affair requiring in general 5-7 years in grad school followed by 1-2 years of postdoc (if in pure math areas), so needs a lot of dedication.
Hope this helps.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 15 May 2013 07:32

Young guns with fresh PhDs from top schools in massa looking for faculty jobs should head to Gandhinagar.

I am sure you will not be disappointed from what I have heard. This one is probably going to be one of the best of the newer IIT campuses being setup.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 30 May 2013 20:11

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22160989

The resurrection of Nalanda University....

It was an eminent centre of learning long before Oxford, Cambridge and Europe's oldest university Bologna were founded.

Nalanda University in northern India drew scholars from all over Asia, surviving for hundreds of years before being destroyed by invaders in 1193.

The idea of Nalanda as an international centre of learning is being revived by a group of statesmen and scholars led by the Nobel prize winning economist, Amartya Sen,

The group wants to establish a new world-class residential university with top students and researchers from around the world, on a site close to ruins of the ancient Buddhist institution in the Indian state of Bihar.

The new Nalanda International University will focus on the humanities, economics and management, Asian integration, sustainable development and oriental languages.

In 2006, India, China, Singapore, Japan and Thailand announced the plan to revive the university based on the vision of the old Nalanda. And it was backed by the East Asia Summit which also includes South East Asian countries, Australia, New Zealand, Russia and the US.

International staff
The new university will be built in Rajgir, 10 kilometres from the ancient site with buildings planned on old Buddhist principles.

For now temporary premises have been secured and the postgraduate university has already published invitations to research fellows and scholars from around the world.

The first two faculties will be history and ecology and the environment with the first intake of students due next year.

Prof Sen says there will be active co-operation with Yale's school of forestry studies, Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University department of history, Seoul University in South Korea and Peking University in China.

This international outlook could boost India's higher education sector which is seen as inward looking and less internationalised than other countries in Asia, including China.

The new Nalanda will be "Asian in inspiration, Asian in motivation but it is not Asian in terms of its knowledge or the range or expertise or personal involvement. If the knowledge works in Asia, it ought to work in Africa or Latin America as well," said Prof Sen.

The university itself will help to develop the region, working with some 60 surrounding villages to improve livelihoods in agriculture and tourism, according to Nand Kishore Singh, a member of parliament from Bihar and a member of Nalanda's governing body.

The next two faculties to be put in place will be information technology, and management and economics which will help develop job opportunities "to enable Bihar to catch up with the rest of India", said Prof Sen.

While the land has been provided by the state of Bihar, the Nalanda's supporters estimate around $1bn (£650m) will be needed. Even that is seen as a modest sum compared to some of the world's major universities.

Australia is funding a dean-level chair of ecology and environment. Singapore will design, build and donate library costing up to $7m (£4.5m). Thailand will contribute $100,000 (£65,000), and China has announced $1m (£650,000) in aid for construction.

"I don't see any dearth of money in the region but they are nowhere near the $1bn endowment, so far not many countries have come forward with their huge purses," said Sukh Deo Muni, a former Indian envoy to Laos and visiting professor at the Institute of South Asian Studies, National University of Singapore.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 30 May 2013 21:47

Universities are the last refuge of the communists, but nice to see other people begin to object about too much of Marx opium being fed to students. The commie professors would not easily desist from their mischief in sociology and history books.

Delhi University: Too much Marx in sociology syllabus?

NEW DELHI: While passing the syllabi of final two courses, Delhi University's Academic Council on Tuesday asked the sociology department to revise their syllabus as some members believed it included "more than necessary number of papers on Marx". The AC asked the department to review the syllabus and incorporate the changes within three months.

"The syllabus appeared biased in content and ideology. There was so much literature on Marx even where it was not required," said Sanjay Kumar, a council member. "We suggested the inclusion of Indian thinkers like Ambedkar."

Other council members, including Rudrashish Chakraborty of Kirori Mal College, maintained that teachers were intent on "brow-beating the head of the sociology department into deleting any liberal progressive values from the syllabus, especially those belonging to the left".

The history syllabus was also passed but, again, with several members registering protest. "There are too many selective readings, as many as 40 in some cases. Also, there are few Hindi medium books," says Kumar.

Ajay Bhagi, another AC member, also objected to the over emphasis of Marxism in the syllabus. "History is a major subject and we were given less time to make an informed choice. Moreover, we found that the syllabus was designed keeping in mind the fourth-year exit. There is a structural flaw as it doesn't cover all relevant topics for a student who would like to exit in the third year," says Bhagi.

"We also asked for the deletion of topic on communalism and ideologies which named institutions like RSS, Hindu Mahasabha and Muslim League. Communalism is an important topic but how can an academic institution say these are communal organizations?" asks Bhagi.

There were 10 dissents on the history syllabus — five from a group opposing the four-year programme and others on communalism. In addition, there were six dissents against the "nature of the proceedings".

The teachers protested against "vitriolic attack" on Prof Satish Deshpande, sociology HOD, in the council meeting on Monday for incorporating "a reference to the uneasiness and problems faced" while preparing the syllabus.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 01 Jun 2013 10:11

India chickens out of international students assessment programme again

Experts estimate that an Indian class VIII student is at the same level as a South Korean class III student in math abilities or a class II student from Shanghai when it comes to reading skills.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Jun 2013 11:06

Indian school system has been trying to copy the US education system to produce brainwashed childeren

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Jun 2013 11:40

RamaY wrote:Gurus please help.

My Littleone will be completing his undergrad next year. His major is math and minor is philosophy.

He wants to go into academics/research. I suggested him to go for a PhD program, probably in applied math (I don't think he will like that boring pure math stuff)

He thinks it is not easy to get finAid/scholorship for Phd programs. But my google search says different.

Really appreciate some guidance on how to approach/get fin aid. I will also search google and post reference material here.

YamaR, firstly does he like Math based on his undergrad experiences? This is independent of his grades etc from his undergrad. He may have a great GPA but that just means he is smart so the question is not the same. Also instead of just doing applied math in math department, may I suggest augmenting it with financial math from biziness school - this seems to be a great way currently for math majors to get into industry and not take a vow of poverty. If he won't like pure math, then don't got for a degree from the math department becoz even applied math degrees require a fair amount of knowledge of pure math which is tested and enforced as part of the curriculum. In my case I was in the pee-chaddi program for applied math, had an epiphany and jumped to Comp Engg dept with just MS in applied math.

To give you an example how this may play out....my BIL has a pee-chaddi in math (functional analysis) which took him 5 years and has a MS in EE which took him 1 year. He got all his jobs due to his MS in EE but he excelled in all his jobs due to his pee-chaddi in math. Even then when he first applied for jobs in industry he had a very hard time becoz they would get freaked out by his math pee-chaddi. In fact it took his then GHQ/now SHQ (a mere MS) to get him his 1st break in Motor Oil but after that he soared high.