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Indian Education System

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prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Sep 2017 21:00

Students will rise to the occasion and the meritorious will benefit. It's the ones whose sole claim to fame is money /political daddies that will loose out. Just see the number of colleges derecognized this year to get an idea of the rot

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vina » 15 Sep 2017 15:42

deejay wrote:It was also widely accepted then that Tamil Nadu Matriculation Board was among the best boards in India.


The operative word is "WAS" . The Tamil Nadu Matriculation Board does NOT exist and HAS not existed for the past decade, after our Dear Leader, Dr. Artiste abolished that , along with the entrance exams (the Higher Secondary /CBSE marks were 50% and entrance 50% earlier) from what I remember.

Dr Artiste introduced "Sama Cheer Kalvi" i.e. "Equal Quality Education" (aka State Board only) . Trouble is it was not "Sama Cheer Kalvi", but rather "Shema KuttiCheer Kalvi" . The grade inflation was intentional and it became a comedy of sorts with everyone getting some eyepopping 99.9% marks (thanks to the fixed exam system which rewarded rote memorisation and regurgitation from the prescribed text book and not actually testing any learning).

Net result, there is no way to distinguish a poor, average , good and excellent student anymore. Net result, where everyone was declared "meritorious", the truly meritorious ran to CBSE schools all over TN. For e.g., even the school which I studied in when I was in TN,which was matric back then, has now a"CBSE" school and all my class mates children now study in the CBSE school and not the school in which they went to.

And thanks to this grade inflation , you have travesties like some 30 students from the cram school in Namakkal get into Shriram College of Commerce Delhi in one year (that is an incredibly difficult college to get into).

Now you put them into NEET and actually make them use their brains, it is a disaster. And mind you, the lowest admitted elgibility in NEET is a paltry 140 marks out of some 860 or something! Speaks volumes about the atrocity that the TN high school education was reduced to in the last 10 years.

The bottom has been plumbed. Now the thing to do is fix this "Sama Cheer Kalvi" nonsense, make the kids start using their brains and actually learn something , instead of a "Madrassa" like rote learning and regurgitating , where instead of the Koran/Bible/Whatever, it is some verbose descriptive stuff in Physics , Chemistry, Math and Biology (other than Math, where the same problems with same numerics as text book appear, you probably don't need to solve any problem at all in Physics and Chemistry).

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby csaurabh » 15 Sep 2017 16:24

As per my understanding of ground situation in TN and Kerala, all kids were given 100% marks in school exams regardless of their performance. Maybe some of the really poor ones got 90%. This has been going on for a few years now.

Understandably this doesn't work out too well at the national level..

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 15 Sep 2017 18:45

Now you can understaand why in the long run NEET is agood thing for them.
Have you seen the number of colleges whicj have been deregistered across India and the number that have gfot deregistered in Pondicherry and Tamil Naadu ?
With NEET counselling suddenly a huge number of colleges have got no or inadequate admissions now which were filled previously by money owning duffers. Suddenly there are no takers -Why is this.The market forces ahve now been overcome by merit forces and the truth is comi ng out bnow. For the meritorious students NEET is the best thing to happen to them as they can now get a fair chance compared to admissions based on Pappa's monetary and political strength

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Theo_Fidel » 17 Sep 2017 23:22

Gus wrote:The pressure on these kids to score is unbelievable. I was shocked when I had to watch closely what some of my niece and nephews have to go through now that they are hitting the 12th grade. I also have two cousins teaching 12th - one for private school and one for govt school. NONE of the govt school student make it to these colleges. And the private school teacher is a poor tortured soul. She had to spend more time than the kids at the school - meaning 12 hr days and no weekends as tests are conducted in weekends as well.


This.

People go on about how students are terrible these days and everyone is given a centum. Yet these same kids staff all the world class companies that operate in TN or Bengluru, Hderabad, etc and produce world class product. Very few issues. Elite kids never stay in India or even in technical fields. Sometime back there was a discussion that he highest paying job coming out of IIT is to become a IIT exam coach. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Back in the day no multinational would come to do anything in India and all these elite students ran away as fast as possible. If we have made any progress it was because this sort of paternalistic limitations were removed.

India needs very few elite type students or for that matter meritocratic type students. We don't do much high end research or production. What need are minimally qualified doctors/engineers willing to work for Rs10,000 pm get down to the tiny health clinic out in panruti. These are the vast majority of jobs out there.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Schmidt » 18 Sep 2017 09:38

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Gus wrote:India needs very few elite type students or for that matter meritocratic type students. We don't do much high end research or production. What need are minimally qualified doctors/engineers willing to work for Rs10,000 pm get down to the tiny health clinic out in panruti. These are the vast majority of jobs out there.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can't believe the absolute tripe being spewed here

So basically we need an army of low skilled low paid medical coolies acc to this poster

For 10k pm ???

I pay my maid 9k a month for 5 hours of work. Drivers are getting 15-18k below which you won't get any one to work for you

And we want docs / engrs to work for 10k ?

Which world are you living in ?

A nurse / care giver is asking for 20k pm for 8 hrs to take care of elderly people

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 18 Sep 2017 09:56

Doctors for 10,000 per month. Do you know that PHD jobs are lying empty for want of takers even at enhanced incentive. Today a Group D worker un Govt service gets much more than what you quote. I cannot believe the tripe that us being spewed.

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 18 Sep 2017 09:59

The reason most don't join is because of lack of infrastructure in rural areas and good educational facilities for children. Sort those out and people will take those jobs

Gus
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Gus » 18 Sep 2017 19:35

Problem is, without looking at history, current issues, agendas at work etc ..Theo just likes to throw some ideas as sarvaroga nivaarani.

the idea that "let them all become engineers, and let the market sort them out"...sounds good in theory, but has led to the current issue of lots of engineers in the bottom who paid too much as fees, did not get an education that suits the marketplace and were unemployable, and then ended up wasting a few years looking around and job hopping at crappy jobs etc, becoming depressed and stuff.

The idea that "why should students be forced to take YET ANOTHER GODDAMN exam in the form of NEET" - sounds good in theory, but in practice - what is going on in the 12th education is evident for anybody who observes students in their 11th and 12th. These people are also forced into depressive cycles, chasing that centum because every single mark can be a huge difference in getting to that coveted subsidized college.

Ideally, we should do away with subsidizing colleges wholesale and politicians distributing the pie - and move to a mechanism of aids, grants, zero/low percent govt loans etc for deserving students who scored admissions but cannot pay for fees. But that will never take on as it will be portrayed as against sammoga neethi and the party that says that will be killed in elections.

the money that goes into subsidizing these elite colleges, should instead be put in govt primary and secondary schools - and let the student decide what path to take, be it the STEM stream, or ITI stream for blue collar work, or arts and humanities or pure sciences etc...whatever they have the aptitude and desire for.

But currently, NO party can take on this and survive an election.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Gus » 23 Sep 2017 01:05

The gaming of 12th marks is so extensive that it is mindboggling

basically, there's a effing blueprint in the sections on how many questions and what weightage from different sections

note that long answers/essay questions - there's a choice of 2/4.

this allows schools to skip an entire section and instead make students practice questions in one section. for ex, physiology can be completely skipped for long answers

and when these "toppers" are asked questions from those sections and the sections they skipped in 11th portions in NEET they get a big fat zero and this is against samooga neethi.

http://www.rejinpaul.com/2013/08/12th-b ... ology.html
Image

svenkat
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby svenkat » 24 Sep 2017 16:43

Gus wrote:
Ideally, we should do away with subsidizing colleges wholesale and politicians distributing the pie - and move to a mechanism of aids, grants, zero/low percent govt loans etc for deserving students who scored admissions but cannot pay for fees. But that will never take on as it will be portrayed as against sammoga neethi and the party that says that will be killed in elections.

the money that goes into subsidizing these elite colleges, should instead be put in govt primary and secondary schools - and let the student decide what path to take, be it the STEM stream, or ITI stream for blue collar work, or arts and humanities or pure sciences etc...whatever they have the aptitude and desire for.

But currently, NO party can take on this and survive an election.


agree 100%.

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 25 Sep 2017 10:15

NEET SS is over and guess what suddenly seats in many colleges empty with no takers. Guess how this mad increase in seats were created in the first place ? To sell to the highest bidder. Now that this has been nipped in the bud things will settle just like how there are rotten engineering colleges lying with no admissions. CMC Vellore has made a stunt taking no admissions. Let it stop for a year more and then they will be derecognized . The institķute has become so full of itself. At one time it was the only major institute in that area but now there are umpteen good centers so it has list its sheen and living in LaLa Land

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby V_Raman » 25 Sep 2017 12:20

Sama Cheer Kalvi - I did not realize it has become that bad in TN! I finished by 12th in state board in 1990 - at that time engineering admission was based on 50% math + 25% physics + 25% chemistry adding to 200 and 50 allocated to the entrance test - TNPCEE. The test went many times beyond the book in those days. The books were crap - it will explain an experiment for 2 pages and give the final equation. So our physics teacher taught us the derivation from college text. We actually wrote the derivation in the public exam and got marks for it! All this in a normal, middle class govt. funded private school in Tambaram, Chennai!

Same with Math/Chemistry/Biology - the teachers were awesome and went above and beyond the book. The bio teacher carried her college book to refer and teach - we will write down every word she uttered in our notes!

The relevant lab in Physics/Chemistry/Biology counted for 20 and it was hard to get 20! We had to volunteer in many of these labs, work with the teacher, setup experiments etc. to get the full marks - I did not get it actually!

Man my Tamil teacher will sing the Kamba Ramayanam verses - the class would listen in rapt attention - we enjoyed it so much!

Looks like all that has gone to dumps :-(

negi
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby negi » 25 Sep 2017 12:37

Well Indians love to spend on education so Politicians got into the business :)

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Dipanker » 07 Oct 2017 17:28

Series of reports by NDTV's Ravish Kumar ( in Hindi ) on state of education at universities/colleges, picture is dismal. It is not hard to imagine that situation may not be very different in other states too. It seems while the GDP may have quadrupled in last 25+ years or so, the quality and service in education sector had declined drastically during the same time period.


Decline and fall of Patna University
https://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/prim ... ity-469444


State of affairs in Uttarakhand
https://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/prim ... and-469177

Part time, Adhoc teachers
https://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/prim ... mar-469179

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Dipanker » 10 Oct 2017 03:02

This report (in Hindi) focusses on Bihar, most universities/colleges seem to have far fewer than 50% of the recommended teaching staff, many as low as 20% or even less! Govt. Education system in Bihar seems to have collapsed, those who can't afford private education, their future is mostly doomed.

How will the education standard improve?
https://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/prim ... try-469635

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Dipanker » 13 Oct 2017 02:58

Another report (in Hindi), this time on Sanskrit universities of Banaras and Darbhanga, they are in complete and utter shambles. Much of this deterioration has happened in last 20 -25 years, post the "economic liberalization".

https://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/prim ... tem-469892

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Dipanker » 14 Oct 2017 19:41

Modi gets thumbs up for this initiative:

PM Modi announces Rs 10,000-crore package to transform 20 Indian varsities into world class institutions

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday announced a corpus of Rs 10,000-crore to be given to top 20 Indian universities for their development, in order to ensure that the top ranking institutions are counted among the best in the world.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Sachin » 14 Oct 2017 19:55

Thumbs up for the Kerala High Court as well..
No place for politics on the campus, says HC :P.
Looks like lots of "revolutionaries" now just roaming around the campus doing multiple B.A and M.A courses have to actually think of upgrading themselves and play politics else where.
Disruption of classes, not student politics, is the problem

prasannasimha
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby prasannasimha » 14 Oct 2017 23:42

Break the students unions which are the fountainhead of goondagiri. Make time bound stay in hostels- if you don't pass your exams you are kicked out Stop the allowed to keep term(ATKT and expell students if they cannot clear a semester in more than 4 attempts .
This will automatically clear out all these hooligans. If this 4 semester rule or 50% credit rule for expulsion can be implemented in professional colleges why should it not be applicable in arts ?

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Nov 2017 02:23

"SC: Engineering degrees secured since 2001 via correspondence invalid"

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 500295.cms

This is interesting since I know of several individuals representing pretty good US universities who have been providing MS courses that lead to degrees. For example, the University of Illinois at UC.

MA/MS degrees in the US are 'cash flow' items for US universities. Read the course material, complete a proctored exam and voila you have a Masters. After you fork over the $50K in fees.

Even my alma mater Columbia gets into the act. https://cvn.columbia.edu/

Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Nov 2017 06:33

Cosmo_R, UIUC's distance learning experiment was a failure. The first few graduating classes were good, no doubt. But the university did not make money. AFAIK, it is not there anymore. As it is, they get the second most number of foreign students after USC. UIUC is the most expensive university right now for out-of-state and even for in-state compared to equally good or better in-state engg. schools like Ann Arbor, Georgia Tech, Charlottesville, Austin, and Purdue (which is slightly worse but not by much) than Urbana.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Bob V » 06 Nov 2017 20:03

Cosmo_R wrote:"SC: Engineering degrees secured since 2001 via correspondence invalid"

That's a poor judgement. The judge seems to have failed to understand the difference between a degree obtained via Distance Mode (while attending classes at a study centre) & those via correspondence. I have worked with some very talented juniors, who got their B.Tech from Deemed Universities. They did attend a regular college for 4 years, had labs & practicals etc. just like any other engineering college. The only missing link was the accreditation to AICTE, which I believe was not required by such universities, as these deemed universities were governed by UGC/DEC combine.

The problem here is when you try to equate a Distance Mode education to one obtained via correspondence. That's where this issue started. Apparently the guy who filed appeal in the Odisha HC, had obtained his engineering degree via correspondence, during the course of his employment. :roll: And what's ludicrous is the solution offered by SC - students, from these now black-listed universities, who appeared for the academic sessions from 2001-05 need to appear for a retest, inorder to re-validate their degrees. I mean, how on earth is that possible! Most of the students from that batch would have got suitably employed in some place or the other & would have completed atleast 10-12 years of employment. And for the SC to suddenly go back to the past & cancel the validity of their degrees, is plain nonsense. I don't think that's perfectly legal (you simply cannot annul a past notification, granted by an educational authority - in this case - UGC)

I'm curious as to how these students are going to respond to this judgement. I can sense a class-action lawsuit against UGC/DEC for allowing this to happen, in the first place & also against the University/colleges, for flouting the rules/misleading students with false advertisements.

If this is allowed to pass by, then the next target of courts will be cancellation of all certifications obtained via online courses. :P
Last edited by Bob V on 06 Nov 2017 20:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Bob V » 06 Nov 2017 20:11


negi
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby negi » 06 Nov 2017 21:08

Jokers in SC need to be shafted with babool tree trunk ; there is no sense of justice in de-recognizing a degree unless you first force the relevant institute to pay back the fees with interest and adjusted for inflation and then throw such people behind the bars if this cannot be done then candidate has every right to hold a degree which was valid and legal at the time of him/her taking that course.


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