Indian Education System

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 08 Feb 2010 13:51


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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 09 Feb 2010 17:01

Stay Rates of Foreign Doctorate Recipients from U.S. Universities, 2007
http://orise.orau.gov/sep/files/stay-ra ... s-2007.pdf

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 16 Feb 2010 06:43

From an internal email,
IIT Mandi (Himachal Pradesh)

Nestled in the Sivalik Range of the Himalayas, away from the bustle of the metropolis, a new abode of learning has germinated. A few hours before the Himalayan resort Kullu in Himachal Pradesh, once considered “the end of the habitable world”, the youngest IIT is coming up. The location is the forested hills of Kamand on the banks of the Uhl, a tributary of River Beas. The historic town Mandi is 12 km away. The first batch of BTech students in Computer Science & Engineering, Electrical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering are studying at the mentoring Institute, IIT Roorkee. In July 2010, classes will shift to a transit campus in Mandi town. Occupation of the permanent campus in Kamand is slated for 2011. The MTech programme will commence in 2011. From 2010, IIT Mandi will admit research scholars, both MS (by research) and PhD in all disciplines. All research scholars will be eligible for an Institute scholarship.

The campus in Kamand will offer a world-class academic environment with a high quality of life in a setting of natural splendour. The amenities will include modern classrooms, labs and libraries, sports and extra-curricular facilities, on-campus housing for all faculty and students, guest houses for visitors, a shopping centre, and a school. The vision of IIT Mandi is to spearhead cutting edge research and development of technologies needed by the world in the years to come. Research groups will work together in creating and harnessing the newest technologies needed to serve the people of the region and the country, to tackle problems of global importance. In order to achieve excellence and high impact locally and globally, IIT Mandi will strongly foster interdisciplinary R&D. With a view to innovating sustainable technologies for widespread use, IIT Mandi will encourage strong Humanities and Social Sciences participation in technology R&D. The initial thrust will be in the following areas,

· Information and communication for sustainable development
· Green energy technologies – solar, hydro, geothermal, biomass, ...
· Integrated mountain development – construction, roads and railways, ...
· Agricultural and food processing technologies

But in the end, the Institute will be shaped by the people who join it. If you are passionate about your research, if you are keen to be part of the blossoming of this centre of learning, if you are keen on shaping young minds that will create technological innovations, then IIT Mandi is the place for you.

Applications are invited from Indian nationals with an established record of
independent, high quality research and commitment to teaching and research for the under-mentioned permanent Faculty Positions in various disciplines. (Foreign nationals may apply for contract appointments for upto 5 years)

PROFESSOR : Pay Band 4 (Rs.37400-67000) with AGP Rs.10,500/- : For direct recruits minimum pay in the PB-4 to be fixed at Rs.48,000/-

ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR : Pay Band 4 (Rs.37400-67000) with AGP Rs.9,500/- : For direct recruits minimum pay in the PB-4 to be fixed at Rs.42,800/-

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR : Pay Band 3 (Rs.15600-39100) with AGP Rs.8,000/- : For direct recruits minimum pay in the PB-3 to be fixed at Rs.30,000/-

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR : Pay Band 3 (Rs.15600-39100) with AGP Rs.6,000/- (ON CONTRACT) with seven non-compounded advance increments (minimum starting pay of Rs.20140/-)

In the Disciplines of
• Electrical Engineering
• Computer Science & Engineering
• Mechanical Engineering
• Physics
• Chemistry
• Mathematics
• Humanities, Social Sciences & Management Studies

Qualification: Ph.D. with first class or equivalent at the preceding degree in the appropriate branch with consistently good academic record throughout.

Experience:
PROFESSOR: A minimum of 10 years’ experience of which at least 4 years should be at the level of Associate Professor in IITs, IISc Bangalore, IIMs, NITIE Mumbai and IISERs.

ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR: A minimum of 6 years Teaching/ Industry/Research experience, of which at least three years’ should be at the level of Assistant Professor (Senior Scientific Officer/Senior Design Engineer).

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR: At least 3 years industrial/ research/teaching experience, excluding however, the experience gained while pursing Ph.D. Candidates preferably should be below 35 years of age.

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR (ON CONTRACTUAL BASIS): Candidates not eligible for direct recruitment may be put on tenure track for the regular post of Assistant Professor. At the entry level they may be placed in Pay band-3 of Rs.15600-39100 with AGP of Rs.6000/- with seven non-compounded advance increments (minimum starting pay of Rs.20140/-) shall move after 1 year to AGP of Rs.7000/- and after 3 years to AGP of Rs.8000/- with a minimum pay of Rs.30000/-. On completion of 3 years service as Assistant Professor, shall move to Pay Band-4
(Rs.37400-67000) with an AGP of Rs.9000/-

APPLICATION FORM AND INSTRUCTIONS: The candidates fulfilling the eligibility criteria may apply on the prescribed Application Form which may be either downloaded from the website of the Institute (http://www.iitmandi.ac.in or http://www.iitr.ac.in ) or obtained from the Registrar, IIT Mandi, C/o Indian Institute of Technology Roorkee, Roorkee- 247667 (Uttarakhand) by sending self addressed envelope of size 10” x 4”, stamped (Rs.10/- or Rs. 27/- if required by registered post). The completed Application Form should reach the Registrar, IIT Mandi, C/o Indian Institute of Technology Roorkee, Roorkee-247667 (Uttarakhand)
by 1st March 2010.

For any query, please contact:
Lt Col. (Retd) Anil Srivastava
Registrar, IIT Mandi
C/o Indian Institute of Technology Roorkee,
Roorkee - 247667 (Uttarakhand), India
Email address on the webpage, same for phone/fax numbers

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby shaardula » 17 Feb 2010 04:06

This is going to be very interesting. Although I'm so happy that Sibal is practical enough to only focus on math and science. This could be revolutionary if you ask me. There are going to be some issues initially but eventually, the teachers will also catch up to speed. I love the idea. They could have also included english to this.
Science, maths to have common syllabi
Centre to hold single entrance test from 2013
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/529 ... -test.html
The Human Resource Development Ministry has decided to overhaul the high school science and mathematics syllabi, which will now be common for all school boards from the next academic year.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Chinmayanand » 17 Feb 2010 17:50


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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Jarita » 17 Feb 2010 22:14

^^^ The above is fraught with risks particularly for a country like India which has not yet come out of colonial mindset

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 18 Feb 2010 05:48

54 varsities with Arjun nod unfit
http://telegraphindia.com/1100218/jsp/n ... 120532.jsp
India had 69 deemed varsities before he took over as HRD minister and today has 130 — no new institutions have received the tag after the UPA came back to power a second time. But the near doubling in number of deemed varsities added only seven institutions to the “good” league, according to the report.

The remaining 54 of the 61 deemed universities approved by Arjun’s ministry are unfit for the tag, the review has said. Of these, 17 are on the list of 44 institutions deemed unfit but given the three-year lifeline to meet required standards. The rest 37 do not even deserve the lifeline, the review has found.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby achit » 18 Feb 2010 23:41

shaardula wrote:This is going to be very interesting. Although I'm so happy that Sibal is practical enough to only focus on math and science. This could be revolutionary if you ask me. There are going to be some issues initially but eventually, the teachers will also catch up to speed. I love the idea. They could have also included english to this.
Science, maths to have common syllabi
Centre to hold single entrance test from 2013
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/529 ... -test.html
The Human Resource Development Ministry has decided to overhaul the high school science and mathematics syllabi, which will now be common for all school boards from the next academic year.


Common syllabi should be followed by common test/exams and no more marks based admissions. Too much variation between different boards.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby ShauryaT » 24 Feb 2010 10:04

Let us be careful, on what the dynamic "Sibal" proposes to do. Remember in his previous life, he was the master of spin.
If this bill goes through, we will get centralisation instead of decentralisation, control instead of autonomy, homogenisation instead of diversity, bureaucratisation instead of suppleness, institutional rigidity instead of innovation, and a winner takes all approach to regulation. While we have a new minister trying to shake things up, this bill seems to reek of the mindset of the old education and bureaucratic establishment; the very same people who made the current system so dysfunctional seem to have conjured up a new command and control system. Indeed, one of the lessons may be that we are looking too much to laws and regulations to fix every problem. If Sibal does not empower the right people who have a genuinely liberal imagination in the widest sense of the term, what he will get is a travesty wearing the mantle of reform.

The writer is president, Centre for Policy research, Delhi

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vera_k » 24 Feb 2010 10:26

I had the same thoughts. The common syllabus seems like a good way to condemn everyone to the tyranny of miscalibrated syllabi imposed by the CBSE. I wonder where this impulse to centralise comes from - it seems as deep rooted as the jihadi impulse next door. For people who look up to all things American, it's kinda strange that they're not adopting a bit more of the flexibility available in the American system.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby putnanja » 13 Mar 2010 04:46

Ignored in India, economist finds takers in Yale

...
Former Reserve Bank deputy governor Rakesh Mohan today announced he was joining Yale’s faculty after the university pursued him, in stark contrast to India where no one approached him.

“None of the Indian universities offered me to join them as a professor. When one of the top dozen universities (in the world) sends you a call, you do not deny,” he said when asked why he was not teaching in India. Mohan, who was deputy governor at the RBI till July 2009, has also worked at Stanford University in the US.

He had never applied to an Indian university for a teaching post and his decision to join Yale does not mean that institutions here rejected him or his academic potential.

Mohan’s comment does, however, throw into focus the failure of India’s higher education system to actively look out for academicians they may wish to hire.

Top US universities compete with each other for the best faculty, tracking individuals they want for years and often offering them remuneration far higher than what a professor may earn.


In contrast, Indian higher education institutions have rarely sought out specific faculty members. This was, however, not so in the early days after Independence when K.N. Raj, for example, sought out young talents like Amartya Sen for the Delhi School of Economics.
...


In India, where seniority and pay scales are guarded pretty well, it would be very difficult to hide an external candidate and offer him pay equivalent or greater than what others are getting

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby svinayak » 13 Mar 2010 23:43

putnanja wrote:Ignored in India, economist finds takers in Yale

...
Former Reserve Bank deputy governor Rakesh Mohan today announced he was joining Yale’s faculty after the university pursued him, in stark contrast to India where no one approached him.

“None of the Indian universities offered me to join them as a professor. When one of the top dozen universities (in the world) sends you a call, you do not deny,” he said when asked why he was not teaching in India. Mohan, who was deputy governor at the RBI till July 2009, has also worked at Stanford University in the US.

He had never applied to an Indian university for a teaching post and his decision to join Yale does not mean that institutions here rejected him or his academic potential.

Mohan’s comment does, however, throw into focus the failure of India’s higher education system to actively look out for academicians they may wish to hire.

Top US universities compete with each other for the best faculty, tracking individuals they want for years and often offering them remuneration far higher than what a professor may earn.


In contrast, Indian higher education institutions have rarely sought out specific faculty members. This was, however, not so in the early days after Independence when K.N. Raj, for example, sought out young talents like Amartya Sen for the Delhi School of Economics.
...


In India, where seniority and pay scales are guarded pretty well, it would be very difficult to hide an external candidate and offer him pay equivalent or greater than what others are getting


All the universities in US are the front for information gathering by the US establishment. They are particularly interested in people who have held power positions in the third world and are close to decision making. They also scout for upcoming leadership in those nations who will become leaders. They want to influence such upcoming leaders so that there is lasting influence of the west in the policy making

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby RamaY » 14 Mar 2010 00:10

putnanja wrote:In India, where seniority and pay scales are guarded pretty well, it would be very difficult to hide an external candidate and offer him pay equivalent or greater than what others are getting


Things are changing in India, albeit slowly.

One of my friends was able to get a Sr. Professor position in a key institute at the age of 39/40, to the dissatisfaction of many old professors (>50s); and he is doing great.

Career profile, knowledge, and exposure are gaining value in desh. It will take time to change long-held structures. I don't know when this older=wiser belief as one doesn't see it in historical indian texts. Our culture is more of older=respectable and not older=wiser.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 15 Mar 2010 20:41


Don't we have enough JNU, Stephen Colleges ityadi in desh? Reforms in our education system is always welcome, but why allow foreign universities to enter the space? Yeah the bill talks about regulations and about 8-months process to grant approvals. All nice onlee, once they start operating how is the syllabus and agenda controlled?

Education, health, defence are national endeavors.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby RamaY » 16 Mar 2010 03:23

Nukavarapu garu,

There are plenty of people who are investing in foreign education. It is nearly $6-10B industry. Perhaps we can keep 40-50% of it in desh. IMO it will bring an eco-system in professional education and research facilities.

I pray god that they do not allow management, social sciences type universities. Limit it to science and technology onleee prabhooo!

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 16 Mar 2010 08:12

^^^^
All that could have been achieved by having fully desi schools no? Just like infrastructure is being developed by the private in desh, so could the private have developed the education system. The "foreigners" should have been consultants.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vera_k » 16 Mar 2010 11:32

The need is very great and it needs to come online quickly if the stated goal of 500 million college educated people is to be met by 2025. The infrastructure comparison is not appropriate because local players are building a small fraction of the infrastructure that needs to be built - Kamal Nath is out touring the world trying to get foreign players to build the rest of the infrastructure that is needed in India.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 11:43

Why dont they allow local businesses etc to develop universities first, before allowing in foreigners? For an Indian univ, it takes years to be recognised even as 'deemed'. For foreigners only 8 months?

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vera_k » 16 Mar 2010 12:03

India has an acute shortage of higher end talent (MS, PHd, Medical specialists), which means that the locals won't have the faculty and organisation to deliver anytime soon.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 13:19

vera_k wrote:India has an acute shortage of higher end talent (MS, PHd, Medical specialists), which means that the locals won't have the faculty and organisation to deliver anytime soon.


And from where will foreign unis bring in higher end talent? The USA? Wont they expect to be paid what they were over there? Or will they prefer to hire from India itself (more likely). And how will that impact the earning potential and career prospects of professors in Indian unis?

Indian unis have delivered pretty well over the last 60 years, with the faculty and organisation theyve had. This comment of yours seems pretty blanketly derogatory.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vera_k » 16 Mar 2010 20:25

Yes, people will have to be paid more and some of them hopefully will come from the USA. No different than the IT industry today.

ASPuar wrote:Indian unis have delivered pretty well over the last 60 years, with the faculty and organisation theyve had. This comment of yours seems pretty blanketly derogatory.


That was in an era where primary and secondary education was a privilege and most people stayed illiterate.

Lack of quality education hindering India’s growth

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby RamaY » 16 Mar 2010 20:32

nukavarapu wrote:But don't you agree that these universities will charge a dime and dozen, hell lot than traditional engineering colleges? How are the students gonna repay their educational loan? I don't think these universities will offer job placements in Amrikaaa or Europe, though they will charge the tuition fees in Dollars !!!


SwamyG wrote:All that could have been achieved by having fully desi schools no? Just like infrastructure is being developed by the private in desh, so could the private have developed the education system. The "foreigners" should have been consultants.


Both points are correct. But at present Indian elite-society is mesmarized by western education system and will go to any extent to get that. Upper/Upper-middle class is the one spending $6-10B per annum on this foreign education.

The private sector has had given the opportunity to setup schools (Engg and Medical sciences) and their success is moderate at best for various reasons. Let there be more competition and let us see what happens. What is there to fear?

At least we can keep some sharp brains in India and "hopefully" get some R&D industry into Desh.

JMT/-

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vriksh » 16 Mar 2010 21:16

Apparently Foreign universities cannot operate on a for profit basis. According to the bill, any profits generated cannot be repatriated to home countries. The only profits they can have is the profits from IP generated and by companies formed thereby.I think in some ways the bill allows foreign universities to create IP here and use it for their benefit. Caveat: This is hearsay and taken with appropriate amounts of salt.


But if true I find it difficult to imagine why a Foreign University will be willing to plump the large sums of money required to build facilities in India with no quick payback from the students themselves and will have to play the high risk game of developing IP. Only those with deep pockets and a profound belief in Indian innovativeness will stay and prosper. Win-Win perhaps only time will tell.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby ASPuar » 16 Mar 2010 21:16

Look fellows, if Indian private education sector is to compete, then remove the fee limitations and reservations. Then well have a level playing field!

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vera_k » 16 Mar 2010 21:35

Yes, that is a problem. Hopefully someone will challenge the provisions in the bill that eliminate quotas because it provides an advantage to foreign universities.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 02:41

vera_k wrote:India has an acute shortage of higher end talent (MS, PHd, Medical specialists), which means that the locals won't have the faculty and organisation to deliver anytime soon.

Reading your post confused me and raised the question "are we talking about Pakistan or Somalia"? Huh? Huh? For crying out loud, we are talking about India here. So these universities are going to import vilayathi log, eh? Nope, there will be plenty of Indians in these universities. It is not like Professors from Harvard, Berkley, MIT and Yale are going to descend into desh and start 'educating' ram robert and rahim.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 02:49

RamaY wrote:What is there to fear?

Lokahitam.

You say Westernized education? How is the current Indian education vastly different from the Western education?

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 02:59

Indian varsities demand level-playing field
“We have always believed that the best public policy for improving educational institutions is to enable and encourage competition. The introduction of this Bill allowing FDI into India seems to be a step in the right direction. I am not aware of the details of the Bill, but would hope that the provisions applicable to foreign universities are also extended to Indian Institutions of high calibre, and that we have a level, competitive, growth-oriented playing field,” said Mr Ajit Rangnekar, Dean, Indian School of Business, Hyderabad.


Some big foreign universities coming but others can’t raise the funds
University presidential delegations from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon and Purdue have come to India in the past few years to learn more about and from the country. But many cash-strapped Western universities have for now, capped expansion plans. Two universities, Georgia Tech and the Schulich School of Business, have already moved beyond spadework. In fact, even before India drafted the bill, sources in each of these two universities said they had tied up with some Indian investors and bought huge tracts of land in Mumbai and Hyderabad respectively, when the real estate market was in the slump.


State varsities will have to pull up socks, or they will perish: Experts
Perhaps, not all the top most foreign universities will rush in once the bill becomes a law. But academicians said it was time for Indian universities to evaluate whether they were ready to face some serious competition. They added that lack of flexibility in state universities, along with vacant teaching positions, was cause for serious concern even in the absence of foreign players.


Beware of C-grade, fast-buck foreign varsities
“When India opens the door to foreign universities, many institutions will rush in, but many, if not most, of them will be of low quality coming with an eye on making easy money,” Philip G Altbach, director of the Centre for International Higher Education at Boston College, told DNA.
“And if India does not have a regime in place that can monitor and control the quality of the foreign institutions, it will have a serious problem. You have to be careful that you’re not exploited through low-quality products or exorbitant tuition fees.”


The foreign invasion in education will take its toll
AK Sengupta, convenor of Higher Education Forum, felt that the new bill favoured foreign universities. “Everything will be in favour of the foreign players — in terms of fees, equity/access, restrictive guidelines, etc. Our institutions will not be able to match them as foreign institutions are financial giants. They have bigger brand value, better faculty, superior technology,” he said.


FDI in education: 200 int'l universities await govt nod
Up to 20 universities are likely to be given clearance in the first round. Entry is likely to be through tie-ups with premier Indian institutions.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 17 Mar 2010 03:13

...It is not like Professors from Harvard, Berkley, MIT and Yale are going to descend into desh and start 'educating' ram robert and rahim.

...But that they might. :) One of my son's professor (MIT's) famous quote was "
most of our distinguished faculty is Indian…the joke is that [MIT] is run by an IIT Kanpur mafia."

(Quoted in mainstream media see Link:
http://in.biz.yahoo.com/031116/26/29hk8.html

Personally know people in some of the above universities, which wont like to do precisely that : (that is to come and teach in India)
Last edited by Amber G. on 17 Mar 2010 03:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 03:14

Talking about Phds and top notch schools itiyadi in desh. How many of you know Chennai Mathematical Institute? I know a person who went through this school, when it was totally unknown. He did is BSc, and then came to Unkilland for his masters, Phd and work. IIRC he was in their very first batch.

It is no frills school; and as you would read it invites faculty from other parts of the World. And its students have gone elsewhere to pursue higher education. I am sure we can find many such institutions through out the country and desh has to encourage and help setup such institutions.

Added: As you would see in the Students list, and I also came to know through my contact, the Institute attracts students from many places in India. Not just the South. Lots of bengali babus. What is with bengali babus and mathematics, eh? {just kidding}

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby nachiket » 17 Mar 2010 03:23

SwamyG wrote:The foreign invasion in education will take its toll
AK Sengupta, convenor of Higher Education Forum, felt that the new bill favoured foreign universities. “Everything will be in favour of the foreign players — in terms of fees, equity/access, restrictive guidelines, etc. Our institutions will not be able to match them as foreign institutions are financial giants. They have bigger brand value, better faculty, superior technology,” he said.




Hmmm. I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for saying this, but these arguments sound suspiciously similar to the ones bandied about during the socialist era for "protecting indigenous industries" from the "big bad MNCs". As a result we had 50's era car models being sold by indigenous auto companies as top of the line stuff in the 80's.

There is one thing I do agree with though, they should either abolish reservations from all private institutes or force the foreign ones to adhere to the quotas as well.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 04:30

^^^
So?
Aren't we seeing what is happening to America - a country that has moved so much of manufacturing to China? Instead of getting caught up with labels of socialism and capitalism; we should look the impact of policies and law in short term and long term.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby nachiket » 17 Mar 2010 05:28

SwamyG wrote:^^^
So?
Aren't we seeing what is happening to America - a country that has moved so much of manufacturing to China? ..


I don't see how the two situations are similar. All I'm saying is that if foreign universities can offer quality education which comes anywhere near what is seen in their home countries I don't see why Indian students should be deprived of it just because private Indian univs don't like the competition. But like I said before it has to be a level playing field. Any restriction that applies to Indian universities (private ones) should either be removed or applied to the foreign ones as well. If that is done the indigenous players have nothing to crib about.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Bade » 17 Mar 2010 15:30

When we have tens of thousands of students going abroad to get an UG education, isn't all this worry about infiltration of the academic world in India quite moot. We have also been exporting 70-80% of our JEE cleansed brains abroad for almost 5 decades now. So what is new that you all fear with the entry of foreign universities ? If you are an IIT/JNU/DU/JU/MU grad and are on faculty positions in US universities, you actually are working for the see-eye-aye anyways indirectly :) Same is largely true even if you are a lowly IT genius working for Infy/Wipro on US projects.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 17 Mar 2010 20:31

All I'm saying is that if foreign universities can offer quality education which comes anywhere near what is seen in their home countries I don't see why Indian students should be deprived of it just because private Indian univs don't like the competition.

India can reform the Education sector to enable the universities to offer quality education, no? We have IITs, IIMs, IISC, NICs, and so many more - are you implying these are not quality educational institutions? Do they have problems? Yes. But have they served the country well, yes. Can they be improved? Yes.

You take any system, be it Education or Software systems:
1. The system serves its initial purpose.
2. Over the years, the system deteriorates and its operational costs increase.
3. New requirements pour in that the system does not address.

Possible Solutions:
1. Provide a band-aid fix - temporary and patchy, or
2. Create a new system from the scratch, or
2. Reform the existing system.

Resources needed (in no order)
1. Committed stakeholders.
2. Money
3. Successful implementers.

If India lacks money, then FIs is an option. We invite FIs provide them attractive RoI and they take their returns and are happy. But their 'dil will mange more'.

The primary and second education is already filled with schools that gouge money from parents and do not provide sufficient returns to the parents. Parents paying 30k, 40k or 50k for kindgergartens & first standards are not unheard of in India.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby nachiket » 18 Mar 2010 00:00

SwamyG wrote:India can reform the Education sector to enable the universities to offer quality education, no? We have IITs, IIMs, IISC, NICs, and so many more - are you implying these are not quality educational institutions?

I am not implying anything of the sort. I have a very high respect for IITs and IIMs. The problem is we need more of them. Many more considering the number of students in the country. And the government has a limited budget. I don't think it has the money to increase the capacity and create more institutes of the caliber of IITs and IIMs. And there is a huge difference in the quality of faculty and facilities between the IITs/IIMs and other institutes in the country. Foreign universities will create more opportunities for the students to get a quality education.



The primary and second education is already filled with schools that gouge money from parents and do not provide sufficient returns to the parents. Parents paying 30k, 40k or 50k for kindgergartens & first standards are not unheard of in India.


The government needs to use whatever funds it has at its disposal to create a decent public school system to ensure all children especially the economically disadvantaged get a proper basic education and increase the abysmal literacy rate. If the public schools were any good the parents would have more choice in the matter and would not end up burning a hole in their pockets just sending their kids to kindergarten.
But if the government concentrates on this (and IMHO it should) you do realise that the money available for creating new institutes of higher learning gets reduced. Another reason to allow the foreign universities to come in. They will be very expensive but with thousands of students going abroad to study at these universities every year I don't see what harm can come from having them here.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby nachiket » 18 Mar 2010 00:04

nukavarapu wrote:The whole point is, Students go abroad to study, not because they are simply mesmerized by the likes Harvard, Stanford, Cornell etyadi. The main reason is, after they complete the academics, they will be getting paid in dollars. That is the main motivation. Nobody would invest so much in education, if they are going to get paid in Rupees.


That is something for the universities to think about isn't it? Why should we be worried about how many students would opt for studying at foreign university campuses in India. If they don't find any takers they will close up shop and go back. Or more likely they will do a market analysis beforehand and decide whether it makes business sense to some here or not. But as of now they can't come here even if they want to, which makes no sense.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby SwamyG » 18 Mar 2010 00:13

The problem is we need more of them

Yes, I definitely agree with your assessment and about the monetary aspects. So we have to open up more quality institutions, we don't have any disagreement there.

So we agree there is a gap. I think the gap can be addressed by attracting FIs and giving them good RoIs without having to give them control.

I brought in the primary/secondary education to only highlight the commercialization and benefits to the students & parents. I don't think the Bill is going to change those areas in short term. Probably will have a long term impact.

The reason I cited manufacturing example is also to highlight a point that a country can not make decisions purely on economic terms. National security, stability and health are few of the things to consider. Education is for the "public good" and should be in a country's hand.

We will know more only after the full details of the bill will come out. The fact that there are scores of foreign universities lined up, to me, means that they are just looking @ profits and look at desvasis as consumers. Nothing wrong in it, if there is a truly win-win situation.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby nachiket » 18 Mar 2010 00:25

SwamyG wrote:So we agree there is a gap. I think the gap can be addressed by attracting FIs and giving them good RoIs without having to give them control.


So you are talking about a 26% or 49% cap on FI like in the Insurance sector. These universities rely on their brand value to attract students. If they can work out the details with Indian partners willing to foray into this sector it may work.

The reason I cited manufacturing example is also to highlight a point that a country can not make decisions purely on economic terms. National security, stability and health are few of the things to consider. Education is for the "public good" and should be in a country's hand.


Maybe I'm being short-sighted here but I can't visualize any scenario where allowing foreign universities to set up shop here ends up proving detrimental to national security or stability in the future.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby ASPuar » 18 Mar 2010 11:23

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... es/592253/

Companies can now set up medical colleges

Posted: Mar 18, 2010 at 0020 hrs IST


New Delhi In a move to enable corporates in the business of healthcare provide end-to-end services, the government has removed the bar on entry of companies into the area of medical education directly.

As per a notification issued by the Medical Council of India (MCI), corporate hospital chains like Fortis Healthcare, Max Healthcare, Apollo Hospitals can now set up medical colleges that offer pure medicine courses. Companies that own large hospital chains had diversified into health insurance and pharmacy businesses but had been left out of pure medical education.

The MCI has also relaxed land norms for players planning to set up medical colleges in cities. Fortis and Max have confirmed to FE that they plan to set up medical colleges.

Until now, only state governments, universities, government-promoted autonomous bodies, registered societies and public religious and charitable trusts could set up medicine colleges. Although trusts are eligible for tax benefits, corporate hospital chains did not take this route because of regulatory impediments on land and para-medical courses. For mega cities such as Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Delhi and large cities which include Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, Pune, Bangalore and Kanpur, the land requirement has been reduced to a minimum total built up area of 10 acres, based on the permissible floor area ratio allowed in the area concerned.

This is a huge relief from the earlier requirement of 25 acres of contiguous area which made it very difficult to situate a medical college in large cities. The land limit has been relaxed for other cities to 20 acres of contiguous land and provisions for further relaxation have been incorporated in special cases.

MCI president Ketan D Desai told FE that “through this notification, companies have been made eligible to apply for setting up medical colleges as not-for-profit institutions.”

Corporate hospital firms hailed the move as a small but significant step in overall medical education reform. “The move is welcome although it is a very fundamental one, and much more needs to be done,” said Pervez Ahmed, CEO, Max Healthcare. He confirmed that Max has plans to enter the area of medical education.

Stating that Fortis is interested in medical education, its president (medical strategy) Narottam Puri said: “Foreign tie-ups should be allowed to further improve the quality of medical education. The fee structure should be made more flexible to ensure transparency and viability of such medical colleges. A uniform policy from the Central government is essential for creating a level-playing field nationally, rather than having it differently for every state.”

Under the existing system, any party interested in setting up a medical college has to first file an application with the health ministry which refers the case to MCI. After evaluation, the medical regulator sends its comments to the ministry, based on which a letter of intent might be issued to the player. The player then has to seek a letter of permission from the ministry which refers it to MCI again. After the MCI recommends a letter of permission, the ministry issues it to the player.


An interesting move. Congress seems to be pushing through a lot of bills in the last couple of months, whose effects will last long after Congress is out of power. Im surprised there isnt more debate on them.

1. Womens reservation bill
2. Foreign Unis in India Bill
3. Corporate medical ed. bill
4. Nuclear Liability limitation bill


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