Indian Education System

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 19 Feb 2009 04:05

as far as i know(which is really not far enough), there are three levels of filters. one is graduate admissions for the entire school. they look at eligibility criteria: gpa > x, gre > y. secretaries at grad school take care of this.

then there is department level admissions babu/bhenji-dom. they look key words. SOP etc. oho, systems guy send it to profs m,n and p. oho communications guy send it to profs x,y,z. again secretary level. make no mistake, the bhenjis typically have eons of experience, and while they may not write any papers, they know what it takes in each of the subgroups. it never hurt anybody to be nice to them.

the biggest marks for selection really are reserved for profs. various profs depending upon their interest, their funds etc. actually pick students. if a prof likes some-one with a lower GPA then it is he who gets in. most profs are aware of the limitations of metrics like GPA.

once the profs have selected, the residual pool is then sampled by the departmental graduate committee. Here is where sociology enters the picture, they want to get a diverse sample from candidate pool. so they might prune out duplicates with the same profile(same dept., same interests etc..). at the prof level all these dont matter, if prof has funds and two kids from univ of timbuktoo fit his fancy, then two kids from timbuktoo get admit. period.

for graduate students, especially those who are already in some univ in US(without visa hassles). If they know they like prof so and so's work, I would advice contacting them. Not just one week before admissions. But generally. Ask for papers. Ask for clarifications and so on. Then when the iron is hot, strike. You will be surprised where all you can reach. Nothing else, gpa, gee pa etc dont matter. ofcourse the concern and interest has to be genuine. Most profs have been there and done that, they can smell a fake from a thousand routers.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 19 Feb 2009 04:38

hehe. stan. you have to see the amount of hoopla and hanky panky that goes on in 'peer' review.
i am not saying it is totally screwed up, but there is a lot of hanky panky alright. i know a few folks who have been hounded out of certain communities. i also know quite a few folks have piggy backed on stalwart names in the fields to push mediocre stuff.

but my concern is this. in engineering it does not matter. the earth will not shatter as a consequence of a polynomial time solution being upped or not. if an estimator gets bettered. and so on. but in fields like medicine and psychology, this stuff actually gets into time and newsweek and oprah. imagine the consequences. fuk med and pysch. imagine fields like hooey-gooey fields like history. imagine how much you rub mine, i rub yours goes on. theres a academic in mysore, who has termed an apt word for what goes on in this field - raja+ashraya ~ basterdized equivalent = succor of the governing bodies.

ps1: hey btw stan. i enjoyed your 'what it takes to be eh dee series. didn't get time to say than q. mannisa beku.

ps2: towards all the phd discussions. people should look up a gentleman called G.E.P Box. he'z to statistics what erdos was to math and kolmogorov was to knowledge. that english doode spawned an entire field of statistics trying to tweak a chemical plant in the carolinas. anybody who has that level of sensitivity to any problem is true phd stuff.

talking of kolmogorov. i think all jingos must know that many of the stalwarts in stochastics are desis, including folks like chandra. but the biggest of them all has to be the hadagali, NoKa, born & bred, Andhra univ alumn C.R. Rao - of Cramer-Rao bound fame.(Rao actually worked on many more problems and made significant contributions). Eventually Rao ended up in IISc. And he got the legendary kolmogorov to be a comittee member for one of his PhD students at IISc. kolomogorov actually accepted and sat on this kids committee.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Feb 2009 06:59

Why only Cramer-Rao...why forget Rao-Blackwellization?

shaardula wrote:Eventually Rao ended up in IISc.

C. R. Rao was at Penn State...last time I met him back in 2004/5(forget). He was my grandfather's colleague and family friend when they were both working in ISI Calcutta. I once asked him how come nobody till date knows about my grandfather's contributions for designing and developing India's 1st indig. computer in 1954 (probably one of the few useful things Nehru supported apart from setting up IITs)....he said at that time there was not even enough money to buy half the parts required so he actually built the machine using war-surplus materials and nobody at that time knew in India what a computer was! India definitely has come a long way.....

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Feb 2009 07:03

shaardula wrote:hehe. stan. you have to see the amount of hoopla and hanky panky that goes on in 'peer' review.
i am not saying it is totally screwed up, but there is a lot of hanky panky alright. i know a few folks who have been hounded out of certain communities. i also know quite a few folks have piggy backed on stalwart names in the fields to push mediocre stuff.

Peer review hanky panky is rampant in my area of research. Have even seen best paper award at top conference go to utter rubbish being peddled as 'cutting-edge' stuff.

(no I was not competing for same award that year so can be unbiased

) . In fact the stuff presented was so 'cutting-edge', I and 90% of audience had figured out the whole thing within 5 minutes from start of presentation (no kidding!).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 19 Feb 2009 07:19

Bose-saar, so you are one of the inheritors of that legendary machine that both JU and ISI claim as having ownership to.

ps: can someone tell me why guvermand of India is investing resources into opening more and more IIMs ? Why not just give a special semester of management courses as part of final year for every engineering undergraduate curriculum instead, if management skills are that important to budding engineers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Feb 2009 07:49

it continues the redoubtable indic tradition of not wanting to get hands dirty but "managing" those who actually do the s*** work

all this IIM money if poured into increasing enrollment and infra at the NITs and State level medical colleges would have been better spent.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Feb 2009 07:53

LOL the tussle between ISI and JU is evident from the name of the machines themselves (ISIJU-<x>). BTW 1st machine had no name (and JU was nowhere in the picture for most of development of even the 2nd machine and only did worthy contributions on the 3rd one).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 19 Feb 2009 08:01

JU math faculty had a few ISI Phd types and am sure the CS dept and Regional Computer Center did too. JU always claimed it was built there. In any case, how would we young impressionable teenagers know. So the myth was peddled and we took it for granted. The story was told when we were complaining about having to carry our deck of punch cards and wait it line to complete our assignments on the monster Burroughs machine. The usual dog ate my homework excuses.

So the old Profs would tell how they had to program this legendary machine in machine code....blah blah blah...

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Feb 2009 08:15

Actually the 1st machine was an analog one...no hi-tec stuff like machine code......it was programming via potentiometer onlee!

From what my grandfather described, it took one person 1.5 hours to program in the problem! The 2nd machine was a digital one with transistors.

To be fair, JU alum are doing great all over the world. The only reason IIT alums still hog the limelight are coz they were the first ones to step out of India when noone had any idea of going to massa for higher studies.

Bade wrote:The usual dog ate my homework excuses. So the old Profs would tell how they had to program this legendary machine in machine code....blah blah blah...

You could have claimed, the dog ate all your punched cards!

vina · Post by **vina** » 19 Feb 2009 11:07

Bose-saar, so you are one of the inheritors of that legendary machine that both JU and ISI claim as having ownership to.

For a second, I read the "machine" as something similar to "election machine" , "research paper machine etc" and was thrilled that we had a Kaffir from the ISI who had embraced the true faith.

Anyways, it is the old saying, lies, damned lies and statistics. The statistics is fine for "academic masturbation", and hard engg, but should be kept out of real world decision making , esp if "model" based. The ISI with it's four factor models and other disastrous stuff has inflicted damage of infinitely higher order to India than the pakistan based ISI!.

Any "advance" /"teaching" in statistics and other allied applied math disciplines absolutely pales in front of that record. The ISI/ any statistics thingy reeks of a strong totalitarian /Orwellian thingy.

ps: can someone tell me why guvermand of India is investing resources into opening more and more IIMs ? Why not just give a special semester of management courses as part of final year for every engineering undergraduate curriculum instead, if management skills are that important to budding engineers.

Ah, Bade Saar, like the good book says, Man does not live by bread alone!. You need other things like side dishes and stuff for the soul as well . So, it is Sunnah onree to add Management Institutes and Institute for fine arts etc. I like the BHU model. All the IIT's should offer course is music, dance, drama, fine arts, Inglish, Hindi, etc.. etc , along with Economix and other stuff along with engineering. Hopefully the Abdul Jihadis in the Madrassa would get tamed by the huge influx of pretty Kanyas , Apsaras and other such celestial beings if they offer such courses and actually start shaving, wear decent clothes and get rid of that tattered rubber chappal and become civilized onree.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 19 Feb 2009 11:25

vina ji,

My grandfather never did any 'statistics' at ISI (he never studied statistics either). His contributions are all in engineering and fizzyics onlee.....no model-based hera pheri to my knowledge!

Less said about 'mathematical' models the better (or one can ask the now defunct hedge funds in Noo Yoik).

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 19 Feb 2009 12:34

shaardula wrote:
hehe. stan. you have to see the amount of hoopla and hanky panky that goes on in 'peer' review.

Boss, tell me about it! In an intellectual exercise, it is often likely that the degree of dishonesty and insecurity are inversely proportional to the level of contribution. Insecurity and possessiveness go hand in hand. And these are not my observations alone. As Descartes once said, "The greatest minds are capable of the greatest vices as well as of the greatest virtues."

The more I reflect about PhD vs undergrad, the more cynical I get. My UG education can be summarized as: I learned how to say no and how to say fck off, as and when I chose to use the two weapons. Especially, living in a "multi-cultural" setting like the eye eye tee, that was critical to not getting argeed (KLPD'd). The sooner one learned these lessons, the better the survival probability. The eye eye tees themselves dont add much more than what is already there, just some core survival skills + interesting life lessons -- certainly obtainable elsewhere too, but then some of the lessons are a bit unique to the system. It is a GIGO system at its best/worst depending on whether you went there/not.

The worth of my PhD education: I realized that I had to use these weapons rather sparingly and to carefully choose who I employed these weapons on if I had to bullshit successfully over a long period. A 100% no as an answer would nt make good friends and going out of one's way was necessary to leach on the system. Everything else was more or less independent of the degree(s)/place(s) I got the degree(s) from/collaborator(s)/problem(s) I worked on etc., and would have been obtained at some point in time irrespective of what I did immediately prior to it or otherwise.

And he got the legendary kolmogorov to be a comittee member for one of his PhD students at IISc. kolomogorov actually accepted and sat on this kids committee.

And was nt this student, Shri SRS?

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 20 Feb 2009 06:46

#1. bose saar, best papers are the least of my concern. conf papers have that much little impact factor anyway. what i am hinting at is what stan is alluding to. if i understand what he is saying correctly.

#2. people ought to lay off pissing on analog computers. there is a good market for them, especially amongst those who value robustness. without disclosing too much, some of what is manning the persian gulf, and what half the world would give an arm and a limb to get, has not one integrated circuit and there is atleast one km-long facility that entirely runs on vax machines to service these. robustness goes a long way.

#3. bose saar, if i think bose sr., is who i think might be, you are talking serious pedigree. in that case, how do you live up to that? i dont know if i have to be more jealous of your pedigree or more respectful of your resilience.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 20 Feb 2009 07:08

stan avargaLe, you've taken this to heart haven't you. good for you. but i will tell you this. what distinguishes the US higher education from others is that they they have hit upon the means to sustain an ecosystem that can provide sustenance to outliers.

You cant have a system which is only manned by stalwarts. its just not sustainable. the system is typically manned by incremental growth-walas, who guarantee results, even if not spectacular. its a symbiotic relationship. abundance of incremental growth-walas ensures sustenance of babus at nsf, nih and onr. sustenance of babus ensures incremental growth-walas who will push the envelope only by that. but their real value is that they make careers of high impact outliers sustainable.

this is where indian science eats deception - dhoka kha gaya. indian science is all or nothing. either you are at TIFR/IISc/ISI or you are nothing. I frequently read papers from des. They are either reaching for the moon or they are way too pedestrian. nothing in the mid ranges. nothing life affirming, sustaining and impactful. nothing that is protestant/basava-esque in value. too much fatalistic machismo in des. one symptom is very few people work on real problems relevant to india. even in fields like history. thapar et al., are solving some other problems all together.

i think real stalwarts are those who know the value of the system and work with it, while being as idealistic as possible. these are the types who will actually end up making an impact, eventually.

i realize bade saar will throw a fit at this, but after some time, you will see it is a lot about facilitating and managing growth. after a while it is not about people who do it, but about people who make it happen. for 99% of the people, 1 contribution in a life time is par. from then on, only those who can create an environment for others to do, reallt leave a mark. in my field the elder khoslas, the singhs, the kumars and sukhatmes are the ones who have understood the value of this. even elderly borensteins and other sundries are all about this.

this is not necessarily bad. after they have had your day in the sun, these are folks who have left behind a system that allows others to have their day.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 20 Feb 2009 08:12

ok now vina saar. i owe you a reply. we have been bouncing of these ideas for a while now. i understand taleb has left an inedible mark you, as he has on me. for me, he validates a notion i nurtured during my days in school. i flipped out when my elderly desi acharya told me the story of factor analysis. even today i shudder to think that it is a widely tool in fields like psychology. some dudes on brf were boasting as to how they were taught proofs of these. proofs are nothing. a dog sense for assumptions that facilitate these proofs is everything.

in anycase, we have pissed on MBAs for a while. I want to clarify.

#1. MBAs/sales-walas/smooth talkers bring home the bacon. They make careers of 90% of the world even possible.

What distinguishes a modern day management-wala from yester-year marwadi is the use of measurable metrics. we are too geeky. we fail to appreciate that looking at actual values of the various variables and acting on them is what distinguishes modern business from marvadi business.

the greatest beauty of modern day business is it opens the field for thayir sadams like you and me. my dad is an example. very very early in his life he joined the indian school of business. lot of hard knocks. it was only after he joined the marwadi school and put in many a punishing years in graduating from the marwadi school did he eventually make something of himself. the pint about marwadi school is you dont graduate unless you are top your class of yourself. those buggers are relentless.

but it is this business of measuring that has made modern economies of scale possible. do you see that? marvadi has a low risk horizon. he makes low impact decisions +ve or -ve. looking at numbers increases your horizon. but it also increases sphere of influence- +ve or -ve.

i think it is a natural consequence. it is very human to try to make sense of these numbers. it is even more human to try to use these numbers to your advantage.

this type of number crunching is what has made many a careers even possible. that much is there.

but there is a fundamental limitation to looking at numbers.

I have had the privilege of listening to some of the elderly number crunchers. god bless their souls, they are very respectful of their tools & methods. but man after man, this is what i hear, they have to present their analyses in understandable metrics to their bosses. ultimately, they have to choose explainability to completeness.

let me give you an example. you've got data. time series. 99.99% of which is wierd. if you actually try to juice out all the structure(seasonality, trends and what not) that is there in it, you will be left a model that has seen so many transforms and other manipulations that even if your boss was as smart as warren buffet, he would not be able to wrap his head around it. actually the analyst himself would not be able to make sense of the transforms. the problem for analysts is that how do you make you make your boss understand the numbers that you yourselves can barely place in earthly terms?

in related example, how do you explain evolution to a tribal? that doode knows a thing or two about seasonality and breeding patterns and what not. but how do you explain evolution to him? my puc teacher kannada teacher asked this question when talking about karvalo. didn't appreciate it then. now i understand.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 20 Feb 2009 08:38

Why shaardula-saar should I throw a fit when I agree to most of what you said.

My only problem so far with incremental pushers of the envelope, in their narrowly defined area of expertise, is when they throw their weight around unnecessarily. Maybe, it is the part of the 'provider' role of bread and butter for the rest that results in that behavior/attitude. It is very prevalent in the field of experimental physics with large collaborations running into the hundreds these days.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 21 Feb 2009 07:03

India Plans Big Budget Increase to Finance Higher-Education Expansion
http://chronicle.com/news/index.php?id= ... _medium=en

The Indian government intends to increase its higher-education budget by 21 percent, to $2.79-billion from $2.22-billion, to help underwrite a sweeping expansion of the university system, according to an interim report presented this week in parliament, The Telegraph reported. India’s University Grants Commission, the system’s regulator, has been allocated $1.32-billion, up from $1-billion last year, a 28-percent increase. The funds are aimed at kick-starting as many new higher-education institutions as possible before national elections that are scheduled for April and May, government officials said, according to The Telegraph.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 22 Feb 2009 21:52

India to set up defense university on patterns of U.S. West Point military academy.

India will soon have a dedicated defense university on the patterns of the West Point Military Academy in the United States, a senior Indian Defense Ministry official told the media on Sunday.

The Indian government is likely to approve soon the proposal for setting up of the Indian National Defense University in Gurgaon, a newly developed technological and business center in the suburb of New Delhi, 30 kilometers away from the center of the Indian capital, said the official on condition of anonymity.

The university would conduct post graduate courses for officers serving in the defense, paramilitary forces and civil services. The existing military institutions in India, which include the Army War College, Infantry School, National Defense Academy and Combat Army Aviation Training School (CAATS), will be affiliated to it, he said.

The proposal for setting up the university has been made since the Kargil War in 1999, when India and Pakistan troops fought from May to July that year in the Kargil district of Kashmir, said the official.

The Army War College is India's premier institution for officers and performs important functions of evaluation of concepts and doctrines in the fields of tactics and operational logistics.

The Infantry School is the country's largest and the oldest military training center of the Indian Army, and is responsible to develop the complete spectrum of tactical drills and concepts pertaining to infantry operating in varied terrain and environment.

The National Defence Academy is an Inter-Service training institution where future officers of Armed Forces are trained. The CAATS is the main training course for pilots of the air wing of the Indian Army and is responsible for the creation of some of the best pilots.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2009 10:23

for those in us academia. how does a typical grad CSE/EE student spend his summer after a couple of semesters of MS? is it the norm to do internship somewhere or to just work for the professor(s) and get paid during the summer break?how long is the summer break?

how difficult is it these days to get a external internship and what are the usual channels - placement office, individual jugaad, or 'sifarish' from profs/industry godparents ?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Feb 2009 10:41

Singha wrote:
how does a typical grad CSE/EE student spend his summer after a couple of semesters of MS? is it the norm to do internship somewhere or to just work for the professor(s) and get paid during the summer break?

For most folks doing MS, the thinking usually goes to how much money can be made from the experience. If one can obtain internship in a company that is related to the field, most folks take it. A few dont really care much about where they do internships as long as the pay is decent enough. Working on research as a summer RA/hourly-basis/internship for MS students is usually a no-brainer decision -- go for the internship if available. If its a MS that is thinking of phd, then it becomes a messy tearing the heart decision.

how long is the summer break?

In a bi-sem system, spring sem ends May second week or so in most places. Fall begins August third week or so. In a quarterly system, summer should be approx mid-June through mid-Sept. Do check out actual dates though.

how difficult is it these days to get a external internship and what are the usual channels - placement office, individual jugaad, or 'sifarish' from profs/industry godparents?

You know my field -- these days it is hard to find full time jobs in my field, lots of internship opportunities should be possible if the right contacts are used. Profs dont necessarily help MS students that much. They spend some energy on Phd students, even the reference letters can be a form letter of sorts. School fairs more often than not dont work. In fact, folks promptly read the CVs loaded onto the company website.

Its better if the person needing an internship takes pro-active measures and seeks help of seniors/old contacts/friends/random folks met at conferences/anyone whose name sounds Indian etc. Googling helps to find out antecedents. In big companies, Indians still are held fairly highly in terms of getting the job done, so will definitely help. In case one uses this route, any act of choo__giri can and will be causes for ganging up. It happens -- people usually have long reaches, even in industry. Its a small world afterall.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2009 11:10

ok..a cousin of mine is going through this funnel. must be pretty bad out there if it needed a call to this long forgotten 'trooper' in the foxhole. some folks never have the time of day when they are doing well.

but when yellowsea hit fan its always the 'jawans' who are called up

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Feb 2009 11:15

^^^ Could guess as much

, but then who else could they contact? This reaching out into the strategic depth bizness is not peculiar to Injuns alone. Times are a-bad here, not like you dont know. Just pass on the advice to tighten the belt and best of luck. Go on a double masters if necessary.

KarthikSan · Post by **KarthikSan** » 23 Feb 2009 11:24

Singha wrote:for those in us academia. how does a typical grad CSE/EE student spend his summer after a couple of semesters of MS? is it the norm to do internship somewhere or to just work for the professor(s) and get paid during the summer break?how long is the summer break?

how difficult is it these days to get a external internship and what are the usual channels - placement office, individual jugaad, or 'sifarish' from profs/industry godparents ?

Depends....if one has some type of RA/Funding from prof. they usually stay at school in the summer. Most profs don't like their students going away on internships because they think that summers are the most productive research wise

Getting an internship depends on what field you are in. Most of the S/W, VLSI design types will find it very easy to get an internship but it might be a little difficult these days. For someone like me it was never a possibility. A full time employee with a PeeYechDee trains for a year at least in my group before (s)he can become independent. So there is no chance of someone with my profile ever getting an internship or even a 6 month co-op!

@Stan--> What do you work in?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2009 11:25

will do. now this was a kid for whom I had laboriously put together a lot of info
a few years back wrt branches to take, industry prospects etc. NEVER BOTHERED to say a simple "thank you" or to keep in touch thereafter when the times were good.
he can keep his freaking medals and jarnail glamour but anyone wanting rifleman singha's help (esp young whippersnappers) should have shown some more freakin RESPECT over the years.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 23 Feb 2009 11:29

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 11:37

KarthikSan wrote: Depends....if one has some type of RA/Funding from prof. they usually stay at school in the summer. Most profs don't like their students going away on internships because they think that summers are the most productive research wise

Quite right esp. profs with moolah. When students go away for 3 months, the prof's work stops, no papers get written and when student comes back it takes a month or so to do context switch back to prof's research. But profs who are fair will usually allow internship in the summer before graduation so that student can have a better chance at landing good job.

In my case, the only internship I did was for myself in a startup company I had cofounded back in univ with advisor and others. As an F-1 visa holder I could own stake in said co. but also could not work there so had to do so as an intern!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 11:42

Singha wrote:will do. now this was a kid for whom I had laboriously put together a lot of info
a few years back wrt branches to take, industry prospects etc. NEVER BOTHERED to say a simple "thank you" or to keep in touch thereafter when the times were good.
he can keep his freaking medals and jarnail glamour but anyone wanting rifleman singha's help (esp young whippersnappers) should have shown some more freakin RESPECT over the years.

Very very true. I usually put in some time whenever I get such a query becoz I remember the difficulties I faced at each stage not having benefits of Eye Eye Tea connection. But lot of kids (I am still a kid though, so still my generation!) take for granted such service without realizing that I could have simply brushed him/her or not responded at all like most people. One dude even bombarded me with emails every 10-15 mins. one day repeatedly asking if I could give him a prioritized list of which university's degrees will guarantee him a job at Intel, Cisco or MSFT....as if there is such a guarantee

Finally I just blocked his email after he didnt get clue after 10 email exchanges in 2 hours. This instant gratification behavior is seeping into India as well.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 11:51

Singha wrote:for those in us academia. how does a typical grad CSE/EE student spend his summer after a couple of semesters of MS? is it the norm to do internship somewhere or to just work for the professor(s) and get paid during the summer break?how long is the summer break?

how difficult is it these days to get a external internship and what are the usual channels - placement office, individual jugaad, or 'sifarish' from profs/industry godparents ?

Singha,

During these tough times, placement office is out of question. Sifarish is also pretty tough even for students with profs who know plenty of industry people. Individual Jugaad is the tactic of the day....more enterprising and street smart student is....better chances of landing an intern. That being said even last tactic's success probability is very low.

The reason is simple. Almost cos. are now looking to reduce or maintain same headcount (increase <= 0). Interns show up as part of cos. headcount and dont look good right now in bada babu's reports to jirga, esp. if they are having no impact on revenue, For example, in my lab this summer, the unwritten rule is to only allow interns from univs. whose CS/EE departments have existing agreements with our lab for internship-based research and funding. Since these are legal agreements signed after many years of negotiation, their terms are upheld even now. Otherwise if you are an abdul from any other univ., no luck this summer. This means people from usual top places like MIT and CMU are getting left out this year and only the very best of best have even a shot. A hard reality check for the students from there since they are usually used to multiple offers and companies fawning over them. But when times are tough, true abdul is sakht!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 23 Feb 2009 11:54

Singha wrote:ok..a cousin of mine is going through this funnel. must be pretty bad out there if it needed a call to this long forgotten 'trooper' in the foxhole. some folks never have the time of day when they are doing well.

but when yellowsea hit fan its always the 'jawans' who are called up

That is bad networking strategy. Sometimes the jawan becomes the jarnail. It is always good to keep in touch with people who helped you through the years. Moreover it is basic courtesy and respect for their efforts.

Tell cousin to try some jugaad within univ if possible or do an intern anywhere he gets....not to be too picky that he wants Fortune 500 co. onlee etc.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Feb 2009 10:02

France to lend support for new IIT in Jaipur

The French government will lend its support to the setting up of a new Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Jaipur, which will focus on the study of aeronautical engineering and energy research, a special envoy of the French President said here on Monday. A “large number” of French companies, including aeronautics giant European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) – the parent company of aircraft manufacturer Airbus – have confirmed their willingness to help develop the project, Jacques Valade, special envoy to Nicolas Sarkozy and ambassador-at-large in charge of decentralised co-operation in Asia, said.

“It is not yet a final decision, and the decision will be the Indian government’s,” Mr. Valade added.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/24/stories ... 441300.htm

Read this in addition with a xpost from the elections thread by AdityaM
Another low to which this Govt can stoop: from IndianExpress, 23 Jan2009, page3, under 'Political Pulse': Check page3 at: http://epaper.indianexpress.com/IE/IEH/ ... ndex.shtml

An IIM by default
In election time, even a 'typo' could cost a lot. The HRD Ministry's typing error in the interim budget led to the announcement in Parliament of an IIM for Rajasthan instead of Chhattisgarh, and has put the department in a tight spot. It is learnt that the inadvertent announcement has given rise to demands from the Congress-led Rajasthan government to create an IIM in the state, besides the IIT already announced last year. With elections just around the corner, Arjun Singh's ministry does not want to make Rajasthan unhappy. It is learnt that they are now exploring ways to squeeze in an IIM for the state.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 25 Feb 2009 02:31

Students go berserk after ‘no’ to cheat

What is it that makes these students behave like this? This is not the first time it has happened in Bihar. I haven't seen anything like this in Karnataka at least. Many students cheat, and it is difficult to ensure that 100% don't cheat. But it is rare to see students go on a rampage if they are not allowed to cheat!!

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 26 Feb 2009 09:39

U.S. Law School Admission Council to Offer Indian Version of Test
http://chronicle.com/news/index.php?id= ... _medium=en

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2009 09:47

aka we need money and want to use our gora credentials to offer testing services.

there is absolutely no reason the nation that came up with jee/gate/ceed/cat/aieee/pms cannot come up with a world class legal test. we have eminent jurists in every nook.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Feb 2009 11:15

^^ basically gora vakil madrassa is pimping themselves to prevent their phata pyjama from completely revealing their inadequacies.....even with phata pyjama and empty pockets they are pretending as if they are doing India a favour.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 26 Feb 2009 17:35

aoa! was just going through the syllabus of one of the kuffar colleges back in des that my relative joined.

iii sem the kids gonna do probability and random variables. 4 sem the kid can elect pattern recognition, error control coding! then on they have complete courses on info theory & coding, wavelet transforms, statistical sign proc, adaptive sig proc etc.

was wondering how do you introduce wavelets without fundas in approximation. turns out, one of the math iii math iv type classes covers that!!

aoa! the kuffars have gone TFTA. this is stuff that is good for atleast 9 grad credits in most TFTA univs.

dont really know if this is good though. you cant rip through fundas in 14 hours. most kids are going to burn out or be massively shallow.

on the other hand this raising the bar could be a way of crowd control.

manish · Post by **manish** » 26 Feb 2009 17:52

Stan_Savljevic wrote: Read this in addition with a xpost from the elections thread by AdityaM
Another low to which this Govt can stoop: from IndianExpress, 23 Jan2009, page3, under 'Political Pulse': Check page3 at: http://epaper.indianexpress.com/IE/IEH/ ... ndex.shtml

An IIM by default
In election time, even a 'typo' could cost a lot. The HRD Ministry's typing error in the interim budget led to the announcement in Parliament of an IIM for Rajasthan instead of Chhattisgarh, and has put the department in a tight spot. It is learnt that the inadvertent announcement has given rise to demands from the Congress-led Rajasthan government to create an IIM in the state, besides the IIT already announced last year. With elections just around the corner, Arjun Singh's ministry does not want to make Rajasthan unhappy. It is learnt that they are now exploring ways to squeeze in an IIM for the state.

Wonderful! With the economy and the job market having nose dived, existing IIMs and other top - tier B-schools are struggling to place the people they already have. If the govt keeps flooding the market with thousands of extra IIT and IIM grads in times like these, soon the brand value of these will not be worth much.
Another factor to keep in mind is the severe shortage of good quality faculty to teach in these institutes. At this rate, we are going to have significantly increased problems on both quality and quantity fronts very soon. I know that some of the anti - Yem Bee Yea types will rejoice saying that it will teach those arrogant IIM guys a lesson, but I still feel the expansions should be reserved for better times rather rushing in now. At least put them off till the economy shows some sign of recovery.

But then again, on the flip side, we may actually find it easier to staff these places with the economic downturn eliminating some of the so called 'greener pastures'

Any thoughts on these gurus?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2009 17:55

IIM placement process started this week. weekend will be the swallow that tells the summer.

manish · Post by **manish** » 26 Feb 2009 18:02

Singha wrote:IIM placement process started this week. weekend will be the swallow that tells the summer.

Yes. And day zero apparently wasn't as good as it used to be:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/I-b ... 193360.cms

The numbers, too, were not encouraging. Against last year’s 25, the first day, reserved for the elite lot of recruiters, saw less than 10 companies coming in to scoop the country’s top business grads.

Many of the top b-schools are not sure of 100% placement this year. Most colleges have had to give up Day Zero dreams which usually saw 100% placements within a few hours in the top tier b-schools. This probably will be the worst year in memory for most b-schools as many of them had ramped up the number of seats/campuses when the good times rolled. This was not so in previous recessions.

IIM-A/B/C may still pull through to the 100% target with possibly lower salaries, but others are toast, including the other IIMs. Many people who quit well paying jobs to pursue MBAs here are going to end up unemployed or will be forced to work with significantly lower salaries than what they earned before. The wrinkles and gray hair will appear early for the guys who need to repay the education loans taken to cover the sharply raised fees last year. And I am not even considering the sort of 'Opportunity Cost' for the people who quit just when the biggest boom in human history was nearing its peak.

Dark Days ahead for sure, at least for the current and next batch of students. But I doubt many would shed tears for this crowd.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2009 18:11

they rode roughshod over the world when times were good. as you said, nobody will mourn their fate except hysterical articles in TOI and ET who think anyone cares.

we are busy enough fighting for our scrap of daily bread.

people who took edu loans to study for MS/MBA abroad would be even more in debt. atleast the local crowd would have partly funded it via job savings.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 26 Feb 2009 19:02

singha san. all in all it cant be good for the forest when the tiger is hungry.