Indian Education System

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wig
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby wig » 10 Jul 2018 18:57

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 18302.html
on the granting of institution of eminence status to reliance for an institute which exists on paper
excerpts
The Department of Higher Education, a branch of the Ministry of Human Resource Development, has clarified its stance on granting “Institution of Eminence” (IoE) status to Reliance Foundation's Jio Institute in Maharashtra, which, as of now, only exists on paper.
Secretary of Department of Higher Education, R Subramanyam, said Greenfield private institutions, such as Jio Institute, can be granted the aforementioned status.
“There are three categories under which the ‘IoE' status can be granted, the first of which is the Public institutions category, which includes Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Bangalore, and Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Mumbai and Delhi were considered. The second category was private institutions, under which Birla Institute of Technology and Science (BITS) Pilani and Manipal University have been granted the status,” he explained.
“The third category, under which Jio Institute was granted the status, was the Greenfield Private institutions. These are institutions that do not exist right now, but well-meaning, responsible private investors want to bring global standards to the country. These should be welcomed,” he added.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 11 Jul 2018 02:24

This is absolute idiocy...How did the ministry or the PMO gave green flag to this? How do they think this will look to the public? Giving 1000crores of tax payers money to an institute which hasn't even started functioning? And their explanation is that "there is a provision in the new law" to give the status to upcoming institutes?..'.Well meaning private enterprises'...? Since when did Ambani fall in this well meaning category.? This chap cheats the taxpayer of millions ..Nah..Billions to the exchequer over these years and is rewarded like this?
One year to election and they decide to shoot themselves in the foot.!! Wonderful

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby gashish » 11 Jul 2018 04:17

1000 crores are not meant for private institutions..falsehold perpetuated by incorrect reporting

Image

jpremnath
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 11 Jul 2018 10:02

It's not only about 1000 crores...How can they include an institute which is just in the announcement in such a group where institutions like IIMs, IIT Madras and others don't make the cut?...instituions create reputations and quality over decades of performance, and here someone just announces his intention and voila!..its nations pride...is he bringing nobel laureates to teach?. Are the staff going to be cherry picked from ivy leagues?...What caught the imagination of govt to include Jio institute in this list?

And that too by a Businessman whose credentials are shoddy in the mind of an average citizen...Sure they will lap up the cheap data plans his company is providing..But people associate Ambani with cheating taxes, bribing govt and getting to change laws to suit himself... They wouldn't have bought it if it was the Tatas...But not the Ambani...

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby dinesh_kimar » 11 Jul 2018 10:37

^ There is something fishy going on in education, esp. STEM.

1. Jadvekar has made faculty student ratio 1:20 for engineering colleges. The earlier ratio of 1: 15 was abolished.

Apparently , " Some Engg. Colleges were not maintaining this ratio but showing fake staff during audit." OK. So what does he do? Cancel the license / accreditation of such institutions? Naw....he changes the rule itself.

In TN, staff tried approaching Supreme Court and explaining that Western Institutes of repute have ratio of around 1: 10, at Bachelor Level.

Masters / PhD can be upto 1:1. (This means a large US university with 400 Professors will guide / produce one PhD candidate each, slightly higher than the 380 PhDs the entire India produced in 2007-8).

The West recognises that more Professors are required to impart good quality education in STEM, get patents, produce more M.Tech / PhDs.

I know from asking around that BE guys have problems solving technical problems in Industry, however an M.Tech guy will batten down , burn his bridges and solve it. (Ha Ha , our forum T-REX / GD with his 2600 lines of code)

More M.Tech / PhD people required to solve country's problems, get patents, generate employment, etc.

Why they not doing?

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 11 Jul 2018 19:27

What is the source of your information?

One of the categories in eminent institutes was "Greenfield". Reliance got it under that category. There were many sub-criteria under that which Reliance fulfilled. So three different categories - public, private, greenfield. The list is just phase 1. Reports suggest Reliance is going to invest 9000 crores in it. Similar initiative was taken by Vedanta in Odisha more than a decade back but jholawalas sabotaged it. Modern STEM is capital intensive. Jholawala logic is not going to work.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 11 Jul 2018 19:55

Why did the govt create a Greenfield category in the first place.?..
The whole Greenfield category is a big mistake... as I mentioned before, there is no way anyone can create a world class institute out of thin air... Infrastructure is just one small component. The staff, the system, the administration, research output, student intake, the quality of the alumni .. throwing money at it doesn't solve all this...ambani just made a PowerPoint and the govt took it on face value?...Why couldn't they wait like 10 years or so for him to prove his promise of a world class university before rewarding him like this?

The whole exercise smells fishy...it feels like the eminent institute thing was created to help the amabnis and the rest of the institutes were added just to shut up any criticism...oh..btw, the secretary who worked on the proposal in 2016 is now working for the Ambanis...Go figure....

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 11 Jul 2018 20:11

That is conspiracy theory. The institutes were judged by a committee not the govt. There were 11 greenfield institutes which applied. Except for the tag govt is not giving them any money. Much of the US university ecosystem were built by private money including robber barons like Howard Hughes. They will bring in scale instead of teaching shops like Amity.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 11 Jul 2018 22:14

Are you sure it's just a tag? I'm not sure...then the whole purpose of 'eminent institute' is wasteful exercise. Why can't other private universities from calling themselves 'Eminent' ?...After all they can say it's just a tag...

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 11 Jul 2018 22:31

The UGC says "these shall be regulated separately.."..We still don't have the full details of what that means.. as per the HRD secretary, "they will get complete autonomy and freedom from all regulations.."...Do you think this sounds right…? This is ambani we are talking about...Not the Tatas, not the Birlas..People who entered education sector when there was no money to be made of it...This is the guy who routinely subverts law, regulations et al to squeeze every penny of margins for himself ..Even his shareholders gets shafted every now and then...He robbed the nation of KG gas revenues by falsifying output and reserves, undeMined the whole 3G auction and have TRAI dancing to its tunes to destroy the competition..When airtel, vodafone, idea and the rest of telcos goes under, remember it's again the taxpayers money which will be lost in all those new NPAs...
And people think this guy want to spend 2 billion dollars to improve India's education sector..?High quality institutes like IISc never make profit..Because high quality research costs money..Their wealth is always the knowledge output meant for the public good...Ambani won't enter unless there is something in for him...Reputations are never built on what you are going to do..It's on what you did...And this man has a very damaging background

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 12 Jul 2018 20:25

Yes, the tag gives you total freedom or autonomy or whatever you call it. I won't go by jholawala logic. I will wait to see the final product. We need to get away from sarkari godowns that we call universities and institutes in India. As mentioned above modern STEM is capital intensive. A modest equipment will cost in crores. So India needs to channelize more private money into education in the correct way. And this is a good start.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 15 Jul 2018 21:13

Mashelkar will lead Reliance Jio University. Some idea of the scale of the project in this report. I hope Vedanta revives its plans too.

https://in.news.yahoo.com/ril-board-mem ... 36540.html

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 15 Jul 2018 22:54

Supratik wrote:Yes, the tag gives you total freedom or autonomy or whatever you call it. I won't go by jholawala logic. I will wait to see the final product. We need to get away from sarkari godowns that we call universities and institutes in India. As mentioned above modern STEM is capital intensive. A modest equipment will cost in crores. So India needs to channelize more private money into education in the correct way. And this is a good start.

Then why not remove the regulations and rules for all future and current private universities? Why restrict it to only Jio? All we have is a proposal...It is not even worth the paper it is printed on...Businessmen men makes all kind of shiny PowerPoint to influence decisions ..It doesn't mean anything...All I said was this special category concession could have been given to jio once they complete 5 or 10 years of operations....
I am not saying only govt universities should be encouraged...There are lots of private universities which are good and outperforms public ones...It is this selective positioning which ends up benefiting a proven crooked enterprise which is what I couldn't understand...Just imagine if it was the scamgress which set this up...We all would have had a field day ...

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 15 Jul 2018 23:16

Just like all cannot get into IITs and all cannot become Ass. Prof at IISc, all cannot get the tag. Your contention is that Ambani is a crook (as if the other businessmen in India are saints) and hence his university will be crooked and will produce only crooks. That is a whole lot of assumptions without any basis.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby chetak » 15 Jul 2018 23:34

jpremnath wrote:This is absolute idiocy...How did the ministry or the PMO gave green flag to this? How do they think this will look to the public? Giving 1000crores of tax payers money to an institute which hasn't even started functioning? And their explanation is that "there is a provision in the new law" to give the status to upcoming institutes?..'.Well meaning private enterprises'...? Since when did Ambani fall in this well meaning category.? This chap cheats the taxpayer of millions ..Nah..Billions to the exchequer over these years and is rewarded like this?
One year to election and they decide to shoot themselves in the foot.!! Wonderful


Many a grateful middle and lower middle class family have invested in reliance shares early in the game and done very well for themselves. They have educated their children and married off their daughters, built houses using their investments in reliance shares.

A great many in India still revere and hold Ambani in huge esteem because he introduced them to the stock market via the reliance shares that did very well, gave bonus shares and regular dividends even as its value appreciated and helped make their lives.

Only a few may think like you and their families didn't hold reliance shares.

In his time, Ambani and reliance were both phenomena.

Ambani was a power to be reckoned with and ministers groveled before him and not the other way around.

While he may have done what people say he did, don't forget that he also helped a great many honest hardworking ordinary, salaried, small business type of families who had faith in him and invested with him to make good.

To each of them, he kept his word and that is why to each of them he mattered.

In the end, its only Karma that matters.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Supratik » 15 Jul 2018 23:57

Ambani like all other businessmen oils the system to get things done. Unless like say Mallya he is accused of wrong doing (let alone proven guilty) he cannot be denied to apply for a scheme. What should the govt tell him. Saar, jpremrath has said you are a crook so we cannot let you apply. And what has this got to do with elections. The category of "greenfield" was introduced to invite private money to get scale.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby jpremnath » 16 Jul 2018 11:58

Supratik wrote:Just like all cannot get into IITs and all cannot become Ass. Prof at IISc, all cannot get the tag. Your contention is that Ambani is a crook (as if the other businessmen in India are saints) and hence his university will be crooked and will produce only crooks. That is a whole lot of assumptions without any basis.


I never said his university will produce crooks. Do not put words in my mouth, and I did list the reasons why I dont trust Reliance. I dont want to derail this thread, lets just agree to disagree.


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