Indian Education System

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UlanBatori
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jan 2020 02:42

As for Practical Exam, let me recite my own experience.
FIRST-semester at the Gulag-ul-Adyar a.k.a. Eye-Eye-Tea-Em. Back in the age where dinosaurs roamed the forest **AND** the halls of the MSB and HSB and the forest wasn't trashed with rusting metal and concrete and paper and plastic like it is todin. Taramani was a muddy street with one shops selling trinkets and one Petromax light when it worked. Velachery was a fine mud street with a public pakistan that had never been washed, and the tea-shop with the Open-Air Seating served tea from that fine air, giving immunity to all who drank it. One feared to look out the barred back window of one's cell at night because one could hear tigers slurping.

Pissicks Practical Exam. The entire Pissicks Dept had a reputation that has scarred me for life, horribly borne out by my later experience even on PeeAref.
The official teacher was an entity (RB), who came in dressed like Sir CV Raman. Chilling, if one read novels about axe murderers who went around dressed like Einstein on the theory that this made them as smart. Person with extreme chips on both shoulders, and deadly aim with the chalk bit, which had struck me between the eyes many times in the 1PM class in the Pissicks Gulag Auditorium.

FIRST item in the test was some green goo in a tall Burette, that one had to "tie-trate" whatever into a tiny dish. I TOUCHED the stop-cock, and it came away in my hand: the green goo spilled all over the desk. RB came rushing over, a face like that of an Axe Murderer on Friday the 13th Part IV seeing a promising victim.

Then started the real action. Dr. "SUssex" (so named because his peecheedee was from Sussex and he let everyone know that, because it was the last time he had done any work, came rushing towards my station. He had absolutely no business there - RB was already cleaning up the mess after telling me to clear away and stand to a side.
GIVE HIM A ZERO! GIVE HIM A ZERO!!!
Still rings in my ears.

And then it got a whole lot worse: The Most Feared Prof. SN Himself, with Al Qaeda beard and Russian Peecheedee, who used to come in with a Hawaiian shirt with buttons half open (maybe fallen off) on his hairy chest, and reputation to match, came strolling over in his menacing Tyrannosaurus Rex gait, chuckling in Tamil:
Ennada? Don't know how to operate a simple Burette?


RB moved away like a Brontosaurus seeing a T-Rex. Sussex stood by with an evil grin of anticipation: Maybe SN would cuff the ears of the brat. Maybe throw him down from the 3rd floor lab?

He went to touch the burette, by now re-installed and re-filled with green goo.

Terror of mpending cataclysm overpowered my existing terror. I warned him in my shaky voice:
Sssiirr.... tthte sssstttttopppccccockkk isss looooosssse....

SN ignored me breezily as befits a T-Rex ignoring an ant. Touched the stopcock. The Laws of Physics, thank Alla*, came to the rescue, and the stopcock came off in SN's hand. Green Goo spilled all over the desk.

I would have laughed if I were not so sure that the Axe Murder was about to happen.

When I found out why SN was a Professor, and Sussex was an Asst Prof and RB, old and disgruntled, was still a Lecturer.
TAKE THIS PIECE OF GARBAGE AWAY!
My eyes were probably closed, I assumed he was referring to me.
AND GIVE THIS STUDENT A PROPER PIECE OF EQUIPMENT! AND DON'T YOU DARE REDUCE HIS GRADE! IT IS YOUR JOB TO KEEP LAB EQUIPMENT PROPERLY WORKING BEFORE EXAMINATIONS!


Didn't seem wise to ask if I would get extra time, because I didn't see that that would help at all, given my state of panic.
RB's face was nearly as red as his "Gopi" and the lipstick I am sure he wore. Sussex slinked away at high speed like a hyena in the presence of a lion.
****************************

Moral of the story: students are usually in a panic at Practical Exams. You have to ask WHY there needs to be a Practical Exam at all, if there is honest grading and assessment through the semester, with students encouraged to actually master the skills, rather than cheat on the weekly lab and Record-writing.

Of course all this was Karma. In Pre-Degree classes, it was my assigned military mission to have the English textbook open and ask bright questions from time to time, to distract the Enemy while we (my second-from-last-row Team) scrambled to copy the Physics Lab Record needed for the lab period following the class. Which worked fine until one day the teacher accidentally turned 2 pages at once in his book, so when I asked my question, with my predictive algorithm guiding where he SHOULD have reached, he said:"Huh?" because he had entirely skipped that section and had never seen it. :eek:
So why did we "cheat" on those labs? Because we were 16, but more to the point, there was no sense that we were TRUSTED not to cheat. "Everyone did it". Those who studied were treated worse than those who did not, and we grew up cynical.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vinamr_s » 27 Jan 2020 08:38

Namaste UlonBatori-ji

I assume your argument is that creating a stricter examination system will increase stress and frustration among innocent students who are doing their practicals honestly. With due respect, I see that wrong on many levels:

1. If a student is innocent and knows how to do an experiment and the intricacies behind it, why does he needs to be frustrated by a strict system? He will be happy instead. I'll explain how:

2. My system will prevent non-deserving students from getting 30/30 (as most of them are getting write now) in practicals. But, the current system promotes this! So, I see a huge flaw here. When the innocent student sees that his friend who didn't study at all, but copied reading from lab assistant or other students and got marks equal to him (the innocent student), won't he feel more frustrated? His friend who didn't even study got as good marks as he got.

He might even stop studying for the next practical exam and this is how the current system is prone to reduce the number of innocent students.

So, in my view making practical examinations stricter will only benefit honest students and is in perfect accordance with:

ALL Policies Must Be For The Betterment and Support of the Honest Hardworking Student.

UlanBatori
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jan 2020 09:58

The problem above is not lack of strict rules, it is biss-boor ethics and standards on the part of the instructors and administrators. My argument is that creating stricter rules only bothers those who obey rules. It is usually - almost invariably - a cop-out by people who are not doing their jobs in enforcing common sense / existing rules.
If a college sets out any exam, the rules are already there: you either do the exam honestly or you get expelled. No other strict rule needs to be added. It is up to the examiners to support the students making an honest effort, and flunk the others. This can be done even if there are **NO** other written rules. Conversely, another rule addition exercise will achieve nothing. The same people who did not do their jobs properly under the old system will not do their jobs under the new system. Another tweaking with "wherein" and "Heruntofore" etc is not going to faze them.

India needs a PaperWork Reduction Act. A total scrapping of Rules and re-instatement of only those very simple ones that are essential. Also fire 75% of the bureaucracy who now make work for others by creating new Forms.

If the Practical Exam is a failure, who not close the lab and fire the people managing and operating the labs? If this prospect exists, the problem will go away, I believe. Extend that to the whole college. Perhaps after that happens to a couple of colleges, others might wake up. Those who want practical experience can get it by getting a part-time job at the local chemist's shop.

Look at it this way:
1. The student's job in school is to LEARN THE SUBJECTS. Not "write exams" or "study for tests".
2. The Teacher's job in school is to GUIDE THE LEARNERS. And help students to see where they need improvement and how well they are able to use what they have learned.
Neither of the above involve wasting time filling out forms. So that distraction must be brutally minimized.

Imagine that a test paper is given out, with only the finish time indicated. No "Rules" etc. Will the results be any different? People who try stunts and then say "But you did not tell us we couldn't do that" :(( should be laughed off. That will convey the message.

vinamr_s
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vinamr_s » 27 Jan 2020 10:19

The problem above is not lack of strict rules, it is biss-boor ethics and standards on the part of the instructors and administrators. My argument is that creating stricter rules only bothers those who obey rules. It is usually - almost invariably - a cop-out by people who are not doing their jobs in enforcing common sense / existing rules.
If a college sets out any exam, the rules are already there: you either do the exam honestly or you get expelled. No other strict rule needs to be added. It is up to the examiners to support the students making an honest effort, and flunk the others. This can be done even if there are **NO** other written rules. Conversely, another rule addition exercise will achieve nothing. The same people who did not do their jobs properly under the old system will not do their jobs under the new system. Another tweaking with "wherein" and "Heruntofore" etc is not going to faze them.

The system I proposed - including questions based on experiments in theory exams (just like JEE-Advanced) only reduces the need for examiners to be strict during practicals. Theory exams are already much stricter than practical exams, so we don't need any extra strictness to implement this.
If the Practical Exam is a failure, who not close the lab and fire the people managing and operating the labs? If this prospect exists, the problem will go away, I believe. Extend that to the whole college. Perhaps after that happens to a couple of colleges, others might wake up.

Practical exam is a failure, so shut the labs?!
Those who want practical experience can get it by getting a part-time job at the local chemist's shop.

So should we also shut the education system as a whole. Those who want education can get it by going to a private tutor!
Look at it this way:
1. The student's job in school is to LEARN THE SUBJECTS. Not "write exams" or "study for tests".
2. The Teacher's job in school is to GUIDE THE LEARNERS. And help students to see where they need improvement and how well they are able to use what they have learned.
Neither of the above involve wasting time filling out forms. So that distraction must be brutally minimized.

It's the poor efficiency of guiding and learning which has compelled us to have a test-reward based system. Testing acts as a motivation (positive or negative, depends on how you look at it) for teachers to GUIDE THE LEARNERS and students to LEARN THE SUBJECTS. So, testing improves efficiency in teachers and students and cannot be ignored.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Jan 2020 22:04

But ethics standards of teachers and administrators is the area requiring most attention. It is the lack of that, which hurts the testing and turns it into an increasing level of police-state nonsense.

Most of the "forms" required by Indian education institutions and other government institutions will not stand up to challenge based on the Constitution. So adding more junk because those don't "work" is simply because the Form Creators are not used to the idea of having to examine options to just creating new forms.

Thanks for the opportunity to air my opinions and experience on this. Let's take this statement:
It's the poor efficiency of guiding and learning which has compelled us to have a test-reward based system.

No. Testing and rewards are required based on human nature. But look at the Indian "SOP": Instead of focusing on testing understanding of the subject matter,

1. Hall-Tickets
2. "False-numbering"
3. "Question Banks"
4. An increasing pile of Regulations.
5. Tuition Classes to train students to be test-taking robots because the teachers paid to teach, are unable/unwilling to teach.

All of these are because no one challenges the creation and existence of these Forms. And Queues to stand in, to Submit Forms. The whole mentality of EXPECTING to be ordered around and be treated as criminals-in-waiting, not as growing Citizens.

More and more staff needed to police these.
More bureaucrats to deal with the staff.
More budget for more bureaucrats.
More Regulations for more bureaucrats.

Fire them all, and start over. Gurukula system worked very well with minimal overhead. Even in pre-Internet days. So why not now?
Yes I know, it is The System. But where better to start improving, than at the child level?
If you don't instill true respect for freedom, the nation is heading to become a nation of herds that can be led, and/or adults who grow up with no self-imposed discipline.

Ask yourself: Can you leave a packet of 2000-rupee ModiNotes in the hallway and come back next day expecting to find it still there (which is apathy, not necessarily honesty) or handed in to the Office (and still there!!)??

When we were growing up, the rural people, the ricksha-pullers and others actually HAD that standard of inner discipline and honesty.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Jan 2020 18:07

Slightly OT but IMO, not OT: this is the result of the Indian Education System.

I asked Air India's Flying Returns to please change my email address from an official work address to a gmail. They responded within 24 hours! AWESOME or what? Here is the response:

Flying Returns <donotreply@loyaltyplus.aero>
KYC documents uploaded by you have been verified to match details on your profile.
Incase the name on your Flying Returns-FFP profile was different than that on the passport or photo ID uploaded by you, same has been corrected and updated.
Now you can avail the benefits of Flying Returns Program.


From CHGMYREGD FFPEMAIL <chgmyregdffpemail@airindia.in>

Dear Member,

As your Email OTP has been verified by you, a service fee will be charged.

The fee for changing the registered unique Email for the first time will be 420 FR points with each subsequent change
invoking an increase of 1000 points to the last charged penalty making the charges as follows-
> 1st change of Unique Registered Mobile Number or E-mail ID @ 420 FR Points.
> 2nd change of Unique Registered Mobile Number or E-mail ID @ 1420 FR Points.
> 3rd change of Unique Registered Mobile Number or E-mail ID @ 2420 FR Points.
> 4th change of Unique Registered Mobile Number or E-mail ID @ 3420 FR Points and so on.
If you agree to pay the service fee, kindly write a request on the self-attested copy of your passport. In the request kindly mention the following-
1) Name and Nine Digit FFP Number
2) Existing Registered Email ID
3) Existing Registered Mobile Number
4) New Email ID with the relevant reason for the change
5) Assurance cum Undertaking not to seek a change of Email in next six months
6) Approval for charging the Service fee
7) Date of Request
The Request should be sent from the Email id that needs to be updated.
For further clarification about the request refer to the following link:
http://www.airindia.in/images/pdf/Q-1-A ... k-Here.pdf

If the change of email is from official to personal, then kindly mention this in your request. If your request is found legible then no service fee will be charged.

Regards,
Team FFP
Air India



IOW, instead of spending 5 seconds changing the email in their records, they send me that and ask me to Fill Out This Form With Self-Attested That and This other and pay them - and UNDERTAKE NOT TO REQUEST ANOTHER EMAIL CHANGE FOR SIX MONTHS BECAUSE THAT MIGHT CREATE MORE WORK FOR THEM.
5) Assurance cum Undertaking not to seek a change of Email in next six months


Unfortunately if I send that Steel Wire Salute they will probably get the Honnorabal Mantri to ban me and get other airlines to ban me, so it is better to just let their junk mail go to my old address.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Barath » 29 Jan 2020 19:16

That's because Air India is a service organization. After all, our revered father of the nation, mahatma Gandhi said

A customer is the most important visitor on our premises.
He is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him.
He is not an interruption on our work. He is the purpose of it.
He is not an outsider on our business. He is part of it.
We are not doing him a favour by serving him.
He is doing us a favour by giving us an opportunity to do so.

And air india being a true national carrier has imbibed this ethos and faithfully followed it in their interaction with you in your frequent flyer email change request.

You should tweet this

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 29 Jan 2020 23:27

Meanwhile I am glad that we are recognizing and empowering also the scientists who are in the business of tech development and innovation. Abdul Kalam National Fellowship is a step in that direction.
7 scientists awarded Abdul Kalam Technology Innovation National Fellowship for 2019-2020
Image

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby saip » 30 Jan 2020 09:36

Why does Air India need KYC documents to register for their frequent flyer program? Other airlines, it takes two minutes to register. I tried once and gave up when I saw all those requirements. I even emailed them about it and sure enough I did get a 'Dear Customer' reply saying it is not their fault.

On top of that they wanted my father's name who is dead and gone. Don't they ever change their forms? In case of women they want their husband's name. In this day and age.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 31 Jan 2020 09:13

Meanwhile .. another IIT graduate is in the news .. Arvind Krishna is CEO of IBM.

Meet Arvind Krishna, the IIT Kanpur graduate who will be new CEO of IBM

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Nikhil T » 01 Feb 2020 06:34

saip wrote:Why does Air India need KYC documents to register for their frequent flyer program? Other airlines, it takes two minutes to register. I tried once and gave up when I saw all those requirements. I even emailed them about it and sure enough I did get a 'Dear Customer' reply saying it is not their fault.

On top of that they wanted my father's name who is dead and gone. Don't they ever change their forms? In case of women they want their husband's name. In this day and age.


+1 I discovered too that AI requires KYC for Flying Returns and I chose not to fly AI because of this.

In general, our education system focuses on the process and procedure, never on the outcome. A simple "write a letter to your friend" is "memorized" by students and most responses will be carbon copies of each others full of generalities. Instead of teaching students to write a meaningful letter, we optimize for the right process i.e. memorizing and regurgitating.

If you observe the email and marketing of PSU companies and desi companies in general, it lags far behind that of Western counterparts. SBI routinely sends me emails where the entire email is one giant picture and the picture isn't suited to display on mobile devices and none of the text can be copied. Similarly, getting work done at a private bank like HDFC/ICICI is painful because they have long forms (that ask for information the bank already has) and wait times for everything (when some of those tasks are automated and can be done right away).

All of this goes back to our emphasis on "memorizing" and "regurgitating" during schools. If schools include some experiential learning - where kids can take responsibility and work on real world problems, it will help us immensely.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vayutuvan » 04 Feb 2020 07:51

Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile .. another IIT graduate is in the news .. Arvind Krishna is CEO of IBM.

Meet Arvind Krishna, the IIT Kanpur graduate who will be new CEO of IBM


another UIUC postgraduate PhD ECE 1990 :)

Amber G.
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 05 Feb 2020 03:52

^^^ Yes. :).

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Feb 2020 07:01

Amber G. wrote:^^^ Yes. :).

Amber G ji,

I don't know how many people connected the dots between IBM and Urbana. One of his predecessors, Gerstner, stepped down in 2002 from the CEO position. This is just one year after the events described in a novel written by a British author who moved to Sri Lanka have come to pass. There is another connection to Urbana. JvN was at Urbana on a yearlong sabbatical where he was hosted by one of his only two students. He developed major parts of Cellular Automata theory while he was at Urbana and presented his results at Allerton Conference. Mathematica is Hqed Urbana (Champaign).

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 24 Jul 2020 21:52

Sharing an email from the current director of IIT Kanpur.
Dear <..> ,

You might be aware that IITK has decided to go completely online for Semester 1 (2020-2021). This decision, of course, was taken keeping in mind the safety and health of our students. However, it also poses a greater challenge to our 600 young undergraduates, who come from lower economic backgrounds, and cannot afford to buy laptops/broadband.

IITK has thus decided to help these students to get all the necessary IT hardware, so that their education continues. With you, we begin our fundraising campaign - #OneAlumnusOneStudent - Education Continues. We request our generous alums to come forward and donate to a cause that will ensure that every student continues to learn, and his/her economic condition doesn't become a barrier in fulfilling his/her dreams. We estimate the cost to be Rs. 50,000/- per student.

We hope you would support at least one student. We welcome CSR funds, and of course, any small or big donation would also be highly appreciated. Let there be no barrier to education. Let us join hands and support #OneAlumnusOneStudent.

To contribute, kindly click -https://iitk.ac.in/dora/funds/students-initiative.php


Yours Sincerely,

-Abhay Karandikar


This, of course, applies not only for IITK but all good schools and students in India (and the world). This also gives some indication, why some of us, even after 50+ years after graduating from our alma mater, are still very proud of these institutes.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 24 Jul 2020 22:33

^^^ Let me post some earliest photos of the India's first academic computer.

IIT Kanpur was first engineering school which offered computer science classes and had the first (and for many years largest) academic computer in India.

Image
The components of the IBM 1620. Picture (tagged by Prof (IIRC) Sahasrabuddhe. I remember enjoying working on this IBM 1620 ( Though IBM 7044 with magnetic core (64 K?) RAM arrived in later 60's was much faster. I was one of a very few people who learned Fortran and used it to compute results for physics lab course and number theory. Prof Rajaraman’s book on FORTRAN programming remained classic for many years to come. MIT/ Princeton's professors who helped set up the computer and taught classes for first few years in IITK are now world famous.
----
(Below: Arrival of the IBM 1620 on campus (July 1963) - Photo Credit: Prof Dahl (MIT Archives)
Prof Harry Huskey is seen here (guy towards bottom left facing away from the camera). (Prof Huskey - Mountain View's Computer Museum is named after him - passed away a few years ago, I recall meeting him and he fondly remember his days and friends in IITK .. there were quite a few IITK students from that era in his funeral)

Image

Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vayutuvan » 25 Jul 2020 03:02

Wow. Two of Prof. Huskey's students got Turing Award - Niklaus Wirth (well known for Pascal) and Butler Lampson who designed the first personal computer at Xerox PARC.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby A Nandy » 29 Jul 2020 19:53

https://www.narendramodi.in/cabinet-app ... try-550741

Cabinet Approves National Education Policy 2020, paving way for transformational reforms in school and higher education systems in the country

New Policy aims for Universalization of Education from pre-school to secondary level with 100 % GER in school education by 2030 QuoteNEP 2020 will bring 2 crore out of school children back into the main stream QuoteNew 5+3+3+4 school curriculum with 12 years of schooling and 3 years of Anganwadi/ Pre-schooling


Stand by people, only one year over :D

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Jarita » 29 Jul 2020 23:47

The new policy looks really good. Lots of focus on practical learning, Indian languages and vocational training.
It took one year of Dr.. Nishank is a doer.
Of course there is will be criticism but action is better than the inertness of the years past. I wish we would see this in the environment ministry as well but that will take the next individual.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby A Nandy » 30 Jul 2020 00:31


vimal
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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vimal » 30 Jul 2020 06:12

This is good news. There is criticisms from RW folks that the toxic sludge of marxist JNU type on the social sciences has not been eradicated. But I guess everything takes time. I still feel that this was achievable in the first term, had we not had great MHRD leader like Prakash Javadekar.

It boggles my mind that the future of the entire Hindu civilization is on the shoulders of Namo government. There is not even a worthwhile second tier leader in sight other than Yogiji.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vijayk » 30 Jul 2020 07:33

http://www.iiitu.ac.in/documents/NEP-2019.pdf

e. The requirements of the Right to Education Act will be made substantially less restrictive, while ensuring safety (physical and psychological), access and inclusion, the non-profit nature of schools, and minimum standards for learning outcomes. This is to allow for local variations and alternative models, while making it easier for governmental and non-governmental organizations to start a school.

f. The Right to Education Act will be extended to assure availability of free and compulsory education from pre-school through Grade 12.


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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Jarita » 30 Jul 2020 08:06

vimal wrote:This is good news. There is criticisms from RW folks that the toxic sludge of marxist JNU type on the social sciences has not been eradicated. But I guess everything takes time. I still feel that this was achievable in the first term, had we not had great MHRD leader like Prakash Javadekar.

It boggles my mind that the future of the entire Hindu civilization is on the shoulders of Namo government. There is not even a worthwhile second tier leader in sight other than Yogiji.


Au contraire there is a number of third tier leadership candidates being groomed - Rathore, Rijiju, Surya and others etc. We don’t see them because they are not flashy unlike some of the others.
Of course people like the great PJ are part of Nagpur high commands quota. He has decent nationalists tearing their hair out on his environmental policies. All the policies are being relaxed to clear the way for other people of the same group that are mandatory installations. There is no malice in him though. He is pretty straightforward and does the job assigned.
I sincerely hope that it’s a perception problem wrt PJ rather than a real issue. Happy to be proven wrong.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vimal » 30 Jul 2020 09:42

When asked about true nature of changes to education system.

"We have not rewritten a single chapter in the last four years." - PJ

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Prem Kumar » 30 Jul 2020 11:18

While something is better than nothing, the BJP/RSS brain-trust is unable to do the 2 core topics that matters for Hindus:

1) Repeal RTE & its underlying constitutional amendments. The tired old argument is Rajya Sabha numbers, but the fundamental truth is that they are not even interested in doing this. BJP Govts like that of Fadnavis, were Nazi-like in their implementation of RTE. 10s of 1000s of Hindu run budget schools were closed down in the last 6 years. They could have done a lot even if an outright constitutional amendment wasn't possible, but didn't

2) Purging the marxist bile in our books

The new policy is just some boasting points to say "Hey, we did something in education". This is not leadership. Its cowardice. Its a 100X more effective to do Priority 1 & 2, rather than do the lower priority ones with great vigor. The 1s & 2s are the hardest and require boldness & moral clarity, both of which are sadly missing.

I will not just blame Smriti Irani or that idiot Javdekar. The intellectual bankruptcy starts from RSS ideology and its leaders, who still yearn for a few breadcrumbs of acknowledgement from the secularists.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby kvraghav » 30 Jul 2020 11:44

Now if they can do the same with the Technical and medical education:

1) IIT should be made specialized like one for mechanical, one for computers etc. They are now a jack of all results in only engineers who want to work in MNC rather than innovation and thought leaders in their favorite field. This will also ensure that good infrastructure can be pooled at one place.
2) Medical education : Just convert every medium-big hospital to a medical college and flood the market with good doctors so that people can choose between good doctors and we will have some average doctors atleast available during time of pandemic. The current doctor supply scenario is disgusting with many taking leaves or quitting jobs just because they have enough money to sustain for an year without working. Decrease their earnings by increasing the supply of doctors.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby darshan » 30 Jul 2020 18:42

Does the new policy contain any provision to not take classes of no interest or relevance to graduate early or be able to take more relevant classes? If I'm becoming coding guy and don't want to take non technical classes then I should be able to. I don't want to go through brainwashing classes being run by BIF.

Kids should be provided option to learn other non mother tongue Indic languages.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Suraj » 30 Jul 2020 22:51

kvraghav wrote:1) IIT should be made specialized like one for mechanical, one for computers etc. They are now a jack of all results in only engineers who want to work in MNC rather than innovation and thought leaders in their favorite field. This will also ensure that good infrastructure can be pooled at one place.

There's no such precedent anywhere else to give any weight to this argument. Worldwide, universities are nearly all multidisciplinary with only a few exceptions. It takes effort to even think up names of universities that are field specific/centric, e.g. Colorado School of Mines. Pretty much any top university in the world is good in several different fields, not even all engineering/technology related - many are strong in basic sciences, maths, business and other fields.

There's an entirely separate argument to be made about developing IITs into strong research-focused institutions rather than just churning out IT personnel, but that is another set of topics.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vayutuvan » 31 Jul 2020 03:34

Colrado School of Mines is very egenarl now. They are good in several engg. disciplines.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby A Nandy » 02 Aug 2020 22:45

https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis ... NMT3L.html

The National Education Policy (NEP) 2020 comes a staggering 34 years after it was last revised. With this comes the possibility of historical educational reform. Timely and progressive, it marks a monumental milestone in the country’s education system. In fact, the document iterated over the last few years is an exemplar of how public policy should be framed — factoring in voices of every single stakeholder.

While the systemic reform agenda has gained ground in recent years through initiatives such as the NITI Aayog’s School Education Quality Index (SEQI), the Sustainable Action for Transforming Human Capital in Education (SATH-E) and even the Aspirational Districts Programme, NEP will drive change in alignment with the system’s need to focus holistically on the most critical tenets of access, equity, infrastructure, governance and learning.

First, with an extensive focus on universalising access from early childhood to higher education, integrating over 20 million out-of-school children, and concerted efforts for the socio-economically disadvantaged groups, the policy ensures last-mile delivery, embodying antyodaya.

Second, through a convergence of efforts, erasing traditional silos in workflows, early childhood care and education will be delivered with a new curriculum which features activity-based joyful learning.

Along with a dedicated national mission for foundational literacy and numeracy, NEP 2020 will bolster the most critical phases of learning, building the strongest foundations of education.

Third, NEP marks a departure from archaic practices and pedagogy. The dismantling of the rigid distinction between curricular, extracurricular and co-curricular subjects in school, and the provision of multiple entry and exit options in higher education brings in the much-needed fluidity and flexibility for students to hone their skills and interests.

Revamped curriculum, adult education, lifelong learning and the vision to ensure that half India’s learners have exposure to at least one vocational skill in the next five years is characteristic of the shift from rote to applied learning. Through a skill-gap analysis, practice-based curriculum and internships with local vocational experts, NEP 2020’s Lok Vidya reflects Prime Minister (PM) Narendra Modi’s call of being vocal for local.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby chetak » 03 Aug 2020 03:14

next stop: RTE

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 13 Aug 2020 05:35

Vayutuvan wrote:Wow. Two of Prof. Huskey's students got Turing Award - Niklaus Wirth (well known for Pascal) and Butler Lampson who designed the first personal computer at Xerox PARC.

When Huskey died, there were quite a few well known IITK professors came to his funeral.. He (and his family) enjoyed his IITK stay 50 years ago. Came to see many old friends.. IITK's CS (this was the first computer science department offering degree in India) had really fairly big-shots (from MIT, Berkeley, Princeton, Waterloo etc) who helped set this up.

Another field IITK would have become world-class center was nuclear engineering but alas Bhabha died untimely (also Nehru and Kennedy who supported this).. and then Nixon came and 71 non-sense ruined everything. (GIAP program ended by then) ..It is fascinating to read Galbraith (US ambassador) diary to get the details. Worth reading. Another good book is "Fourth IIT" where this dynamics is discussed. You will enjoy it, it is available from Amazon.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 19 Aug 2020 05:49

Among the 25 Hubs of the National Mission on Cyber-physical Systems, this one at IIT Jodhpur is focused on Computer Vision, Augmented Reality, Virtual Reality et al.
To begin with, who wouldn't appreciate more realistic webinars, online meetings and get togethers that approximate the real deal!
DST sanctions Rs 115 crores to IIT Jodhpur to set up tech and innovation hub

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby RohitH » 24 Aug 2020 18:26

India needs a career path of "Divinity" too.
In US and Europe, there is a lucrative career path of “Divinity”. Students do bachelors and masters in divinity. In these courses, they are taught religious text, christian philosphy, giving sermons (public speaking), human psychology, detecting and resolving church community problems, ( conflict resolution ), collecting donations ( fund raising ), money management ( how to efficiently run the church operations ) , etc. The focus of such courses is not just on religion and philosphy but also practical skills of money and people management. If India starts this too then there will be no need for fly-by-night operators.. fake babas etc who swindle the poor and bring bad name to hindu culture and practices. People with real skills and learnings will serve the society and give tough competition to bad players.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Amber G. » 31 Aug 2020 22:58

x post (some discussion in physics dhaga):
^^^Yes, of course.

One of the side benefits of this pandemic is that there are many more courses which are now available to public viewing and/or being shared to other school's students. IIT's in India, (and schools like MIT, Caltech etc in USA) have *many* such excellent courses -- now not only available to students to other colleges but general public viewing..

Worthwhile to check their sites for anybody who is interested - all sorts of subjects, excellent teachers and no tuition fee.

Another course got my attention, is about Hight Temperature Super Conductors by Juven Wang, also of Harvard.

(What was cool that Juven Wang used perfect Hindi for Subir Sachdev's initiative .. "प्रोफेसर सुबीर सचदेव का हम हार्दिक स्वागत करते हैं!" .. remember long ago my getting used to English in IIT's where lot of people spoke it .. now Hindi could be heard when you visit a MIT campus or a Google cafeteria..:) )

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Vips » 08 Sep 2020 03:16

At 96.2%, Kerala tops literacy rate chart; Andhra Pradesh worst performer at 66.4%

With 96.2 per cent literacy, Kerala has once again emerged as the most literate state in the country, while Andhra Pradesh featured at the bottom with a rate of 66.4 per cent, showed a report based on National Statistical Oice (NSO) survey. The report on 'Household Social Consumption: Education in India as part of 75th round of National Sample Survey - from July 2017 to June 2018' provides for state-wise detail of literacy rate among the persons aged seven years and above.

According to the study, after Kerala, Delhi has the best literacy rate at 88.7 per cent, followed by Uttarkhand's 87.6 per cent, Himachal Pradesh's 86.6 per cent and Assam's at 85.9 per cent.

On the other hand, Rajasthan is the second worst performer with literacy rate at 69.7 per cent, followed by Bihar at 70.9 per cent, Telangana at 72.8 per cent, Uttar Pradesh at 73 per cent and Madhya Pradesh at 73.7 per cent.

The study has pegged the overall literacy rate in the country at about 77.7 per cent. In rural areas, the literacy rate is 73.5 per cent compared to 87.7 per cent in urban areas of the country.

At all-India level, the male literacy rate is higher at 84.7 per cent compared to 70.3 per cent among women.

The survey showed that the male literacy rate is higher than female literacy rate among all states. In Kerala, the male literacy rate is 97.4 per cent compared to 95.2 per cent among females.Similarly, the male literacy rate in Delhi stood a 93.7 per cent higher than 82.4 per cent among females.

Even in the worst performing states, there was a considerable gap in male and female literacy rate.In Andhra Pradesh, male literacy rate is 73.4 per cent, higher than 59.5 per cent among females (of the age of seven year or above). In Rajasthan, the gap was even wider as male literacy rate stood at 80.8 per cent compared to 57.6 per cent of females. In Bihar, the male literacy rate was also higher at 79.7 per cent compared to 60.5 per cent of females.

A sample of 64,519 rural households from 8,097 villages and 49,238 urban households from 6,188 blocks was surveyed allover India. The report also revealed that nearly 4 per cent of rural households and 23 per cent of urban household possessed computer.

Among persons of age 15-29 years, nearly 24 per cent in rural areas and 56 per cent in urban areas were able to operate a computer. Nearly 35 per cent of persons of age 15-29 years reported use of internet during the 30 days prior to the date of survey. The proportions were nearly 25 per cent in rural areas and 58 per cent in urban areas.

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby Jarita » 23 Oct 2020 21:12

This is the level of deracination within our universities today. One shudders at the thought of foreign universities coming in. We have lost complete control of most of our media which has become a powerful BIF arm. Mind you, education especially of the liberal arts variety is about who controls it.

Image

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby sanjayc » 23 Oct 2020 22:38

Christians preaching civilization to heathens from the pulpit - nothing new

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby vinamr_s » 15 Feb 2021 18:24

Mr. Rahul Mehta, an old member of this forum, has proposed an interesting test-cum-reward method of improving public education in India. Here is a description of it: https://www.rahulmehta.com/edu02.htm

I think it is a very good alternative to the battery of school inspectors our current District Education Office & Education ministries have installed to ensure that teachers are teaching, schools are functioning efficiently etc.

It basically sets up a system of computerised testing for subjects which can be tested objectively (Math, Science). So a database of thousands or lakhs of questions (similar to the one created by Khan Academy) can be made, the system can randomly select questions from it for a particular test & can also evaluate student’s responses (since the test will consist of only questions with numerical answers, MCQs, True/False etc). He wants to use this system to have (maybe) monthly tests to regulate the salary of teachers & scholarships for students and also allow them to self evaluate where they stand with respect to their peers.

In his system, one can choose their own teacher and the teacher’s salary will be dependent on the number of students s/he is teaching & the performance of his/er students. Eg. Salary of teacher = Rs. 100 times the number of students in top 10 percentile + Rs. 50 times the number of students in top 50 percentile + Rs. 30 for all who have passed etc. Govt can make a more sophisticated formula with more brackets and also have a base salary (although he has proposed to make it 0) which is not dependent on their student’s performance.

This is similar to School Vouchers but instead “Teacher’s Vouchers” which are regulated based on their student’s results in regular computerised tests.

These tests can also be used to reward scholarships to students considering the major reason for school absenteeism in rural India is the high opportunity costs for them. He proposes it to make their scholarship/reward the same as what is given to their teachers: so if a teacher is getting Rs. 100 because of his student being in top 10 percentile, the same amount will also be given to the student himself. Although, I think the government won’t have enough funds to give an equivalent amount to the students. However, I think something else is possible:

His system can also be used to replace the mid-day meal scheme. In order to motivate students to study, govt can set a passing grade, and only those students who get above that grade will receive equivalent cash reward (in their guardian’s account). Govt currently spend about Rs. 6-7 for one day’s meal per student. So, if such tests were help every month or couple or months, they can declare that anyone who gets a passing grade will get Rs. 150 or 200.

Cost shouldn’t be an issue. Considering the cost of Raspberry Pi 400 or ZERO or other alternatives, initial cost of setting up systems doesn’t seem to be huge. Govt schools will today or tomorrow need computer systems as new NEP promising to include programming etc in their curriculum. As per my guesses some initial investment of Rs. 20,000 crore (maybe slowly set up in a couple of years) is not huge considering the total education budget of Center + State crosses Rs. 2 lakh crore & Modiji has promised to increase it to 3% of our GDP as per new NEP. So, cost shouldn’t be a problem.

What do you guys think about it?

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Re: Indian Education System

Postby isubodh » 15 Feb 2021 19:51

vinamr_s wrote:Mr. Rahul Mehta, an old member of this forum, has proposed an interesting test-cum-reward method of improving public education in India. Here is a description of it: https://www.rahulmehta.com/edu02.htm

I think it is a very good alternative to the battery of school inspectors our current District Education Office & Education ministries have installed to ensure that teachers are teaching, schools are functioning efficiently etc.

--snip--


What do you guys think about it?

Just to give a perspective from Delhi Govt Schools where my close relative is a teacher, the teachers come to exam hall read out answers of objective and true/false questions to get students to clear exam and get higher pass percentage.

You might have to totally randomize the questions for each student to make it next to impossible to feed in answers to all students.


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